NationStates Jolt Archive

http://courttv.com/news/2004/1220/students_ap.html

Ewwww Conservative oppression again. :rolleyes:

Damn all the liberal math, physics and chem teachers! They only presented 1/2 of the story.

The article is misleading. It should have stressed what school topics conservatives are being "oppressed."

Finally, who gives a shit. I am sure you roll the clock back 50 years and the liberals found themselves in the same position.

If by College, you can't think for yourself, deal with a jack ass professor and find out your own facts, you are pretty hopeless.

I had liberal and conservative professors and there were opressive jackasses in both camps.

However, most encouraged debate.

I suspect some of the "oppression" is a liberal professor challenging some baseless spew of a conservative student.

Finally, I would like to say the biggest asshole professor I ever had was a Liberterian ;)

If they are stifling opposing opinions, then they aren't really liberal.

Going to college makes you socially liberal. It lets you accept people for who they are, because if you're not, you're going to have problems making friends.

Finally, I would like to say the biggest asshole professor I ever had was a Liberterian ;)

are people really libertarian? jokes. it is a bit much saying education too liberal with the right trying to ban science in school. don't get me wrong, i didn't enjoy science in school but i still think it should be taught, rather than mythology

If they are stifling opposing opinions, then they aren't really liberal.

they almost certainly weren't. remember these complaints are coming from the people who still complain about the 'damn liberals' ruining the country even though they own every branch of the government. i mean, come on, david horowitz? he's just a loud-mouthed attention-seeking idiot.

No, it's just a matter of contrast by the right becoming increasingly unintellectual.

Going to college makes you socially liberal. It lets you accept people for who they are, because if you're not, you're going to have problems making friends.

That's not really true. People I've met are far more interested in how friendly, likable, and kindred in spirit you are. Political Orientation has had little to do with any of my friendships, college or otherwise. And college doesn't make you socially liberal. Demographics support that many or most college students are socially liberal, but there isn't some large-scale transformation that occurs once you step foot on campus. People have free will, even in education.

Educational Intitutions have always shown a bias of some sort, otherwise there would be no reason to pick one over another.

An education should be as broad as possible and mind expanding.

However, if people do not want to learn views different from what they already know, they should pick a college that shares their sentiments.

Slender Goddess

Most schools in the US are, and have been for decades (even 50 years ago), tending towards the left, especially in subjects that are "soft" or non-science/non-math/non-engineering.

In a "hard" subject, equations are rather un-partisan. In a "soft" subject, especially history or philosophy, you can spend all day being partisan and still claim to be on subject.

Although there's generally no advance warning that the professor you're about to get tends to the left, if you're in a "soft" subject, you had better be prepared for it. Since the grading will be subjective in the class, you had also better be prepared to kiss the teacher's philosophical ass or get a bad grade.

I never had a professor of any "soft" subject who was even remotely conservative at the University of Virginia, George Washington University, or Georgetown University. For those three schools at least, it looked like it would have been impossible to get tenure as a conservative professor in a "soft" subject area.

Most schools in the US are, and have been for decades (even 50 years ago), tending towards the left, especially in subjects that are "soft" or non-science/non-math/non-engineering.

In a "hard" subject, equations are rather un-partisan. In a "soft" subject, especially history or philosophy, you can spend all day being partisan and still claim to be on subject.

Although there's generally no advance warning that the professor you're about to get tends to the left, if you're in a "soft" subject, you had better be prepared for it. Since the grading will be subjective in the class, you had also better be prepared to kiss the teacher's philosophical ass or get a bad grade.

I never had a professor of any "soft" subject who was even remotely conservative at the University of Virginia, George Washington University, or Georgetown University. For those three schools at least, it looked like it would have been impossible to get tenure as a conservative professor in a "soft" subject area.
This is what I've been told by several different students going to different schools. If I were in their classes, I wouldn't needlessly antagonize them, but neither would I kiss their collective ass. If they started giving me bad grades for not agreeing with their philosophical positions, they would have a major fight on their hands including lawsuits, political involvement, and media attention. I do NOT "roll over and play dead!"

Pshaw. These whiny kids should shut up. Bleeding heart liberal professors are the best. They are so blinded by ideology it is dead easy to gat a good grade from them. All you have to do is pretend you are super ultra left wing (of their particular brand), curse out corportations, claim that all republicans want to own sweat shops, whine a bit about africa and US imperialism and generally be a fucktard.

After that, they are so convinced that you are ideologically sound they don't want to hold you back with crappy grades, et voila , a Ds worth of studying turns into a B+/A.

Then when you graduate you can seek them out, wearing a shiny NRA button on your robe, and laugh your ass off.

On the other hand, the non-politial/conservative types seem to want hard work and effort for the grade. :(

I'm not sure who could vote no here. It's like asking if talk radio has swung to the right. You can argue it's effectivness, but you can't argue it's exsistence.

I guess it all depends on what "left" means to the reader. Some people here probably feel that no university (except perhaps Patrice Lummuba in Moscow) is even vaguely left.

The most liberal members of any society are going to be the intelligencia, and you are going to find them at Universities. Sorry if you don't like that, but that's the way it is.

No, it's just a matter of contrast by the right becoming increasingly unintellectual.
More like Anti-intellectual. They like people who can support their point of view on the issues just fine, but when independant researchers come up with facts that they disagree with many conservatives immediately start complaining about the leftist, ivory tower, elitist intellectuals. For instance, many conservatives love a guy with an advanced degree who spouts off about intelligent design, but hate any scientist who studies evolution. They love the guys who claim that there is no evidence for human-influenced global warming, but hate the scientists who say that there is such evidence.

READING into it there are some very separate issues

For example the assignment that "offends" their view point

Suck it up its collage we all have to do assignments like that … those of us that take courses on religions we don’t strictly believe in or other faiths (I have … and it was one hell of a learning experience even if I didn’t completely agree)
They did not say what the assignment was … It could have been something REALLY off the deep end (like an essay on why Christians are baby killers or something) but most likely not … and they have to be open to assignments that have differing viewpoints

As far as the intimidation for supporting Israel … that one has a bit more sympathy in my book, but again we have almost no facts for the situation

Like I said a mixed bag … and we always have to remember to look at the other side … just because we don’t agree with their viewpoint does not mean that bullying is not happen.

They deserve a fair trial like anyone else and to have the facts found
School is about having your mind opened … not just being shoved down another path but opening up a whole host of opportunities and beliefs

Admittedly they are to the left of society as a whole, but I don't mind it too much. I am a college student, albeit a freshman, and I haven't really experienced any liberal bias so far.

I had a sociology professor who remarked on her first day that she was a Marxist, and she was not going to tolerate any non-Marxist opinions in her class.

While I have read Marx, and studied the topic of Marxism, and was willing to hear Marxist thought expressed (hey, there's always something new to learn), I am not willing to let a professor say that they're not going to tolerate different thoughts (let alone a dissenting opinion).

I think she was upset about the general demise of Communism in general, the fact that all her heroes died long ago (she really thought Che was the man), and the fact that outside of the class, no one wanted to hear her ranting. So she was exercising what little control she had left to make her world to her liking.

As long as I don't have to sit in it. I remember turning in papers and attending the exams, but I never came back for any lectures after that day. Got an A, because I knew what kind of a slant she wanted in every paper.

I am one of those "liberal professors." We're necessary -- it is very rare for a "liberal" professor to be closed-minded, and that is what intellectuals must avoid. I think it's fine to be personally conservative, but you must be open to alternative points of view. You must ALSO defend academic freedom and free speech because these are the cornerstones of our profession: it's no accident that when a government wants to shut down thought, they go after intellectuals first:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1378463,00.html

I live in this country now, and I have seen first-hand in China why being open-minded is important. Teachers are the most likely people to make real change on a personal level, however little their praises are sung as heroes. It is responsible to be liberal-minded when one is a teacher. It is also important to question society as a teacher, because society must always question itself.

I'm proud to be a liberal. I'll listen to "conservative" views, but I ultimately know that limited POVs don't make countries great. Sorry Mao, you lose.


Ge-Ren

I am one of those "liberal professors." We're necessary -- it is very rare for a "liberal" professor to be closed-minded, and that is what intellectuals must avoid. I think it's fine to be personally conservative, but you must be open to alternative points of view. You must ALSO defend academic freedom and free speech because these are the cornerstones of our profession: it's no accident that when a government wants to shut down thought, they go after intellectuals first:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1378463,00.html

I live in this country now, and I have seen first-hand in China why being open-minded is important. Teachers are the most likely people to make real change on a personal level, however little their praises are sung as heroes. It is responsible to be liberal-minded when one is a teacher. It is also important to question society as a teacher, because society must always question itself.

I'm proud to be a liberal. I'll listen to "conservative" views, but I ultimately know that limited POVs don't make countries great. Sorry Mao, you lose.

Ge-Ren

I've seen three campuses where defending free speech and being open-minded translates to calling anything spoken by a Republican as "hate speech", allowing a Christian prayer group to use space in the Student Union to be banned as "supporting intolerance", and giving bad grades to students who openly criticize the Great Leap Forward.

I guess that the intolerant, closed-minded professors are far more public and decisive in their actions than the open-minded.

If by College, you can't think for yourself, eeal with a jack ass professor and find out your own facts, you are pretty hopeless.

Here Here!

There will be jackasses on all sides of the political spectrum. Look at Moore Fat vs. Rush Limbaugh. Still, you can't rely on others, CNN, Fox news, or whatever to develope your opinions on life. You must do it yourself.

The most liberal members of any society are going to be the intelligencia, and you are going to find them at Universities. Sorry if you don't like that, but that's the way it is.
Vittos ... I love ya like a brother, but on this one you're dead wrong! Some of the brightest people on the planet are in business, and many of them have never darkened the door of an "institution of higher learning."

I hope it has. Better than it swinging to the far right.

the answer is both yes and no.no one likes people who disagree with them,even those who claim to preech tolerance.they may preech tolerance for many things but many do not practice intellectual tolerance.

HOWER at the same time,it is hard to have a large group of intellectuals when you are the party of anti-intellectualism.lets face it supporting theocracy isnt something the educated do.

I hope it has. Better than it swinging to the far right.
It's never left the left, you boob.

now that's fucking retarded.

suign because a book offends them? geez. i had to read plenty of crappy books when i was in school and i never sued. hell, i had to read crappy books where women were portrayed in a negative light (usually either weak, cold or mainpulative) and i found it a little offensive that my sex was always shown like this... but i didn't sue.

It's never left the left, you boob.

Whatever... Point is I'd prefer a left bias than a right one.

are people really libertarian? jokes. it is a bit much saying education too liberal with the right trying to ban science in school. don't get me wrong, i didn't enjoy science in school but i still think it should be taught, rather than mythology

If you met this guy, you would think so. He never let a minute go by to inform you that he was one.....

On the other hand, the non-politial/conservative types seem to want hard work and effort for the grade. :(

Yea right the lazy stupid liberal again. :rolleyes:

A good teach makes you work no matter what. I have had bad liberal and conservative professors.

the answer is both yes and no.no one likes people who disagree with them,even those who claim to preech tolerance.they may preech tolerance for many things but many do not practice intellectual tolerance.

HOWER at the same time,it is hard to have a large group of intellectuals when you are the party of anti-intellectualism.lets face it supporting theocracy isnt something the educated do.
Try to remember this, I know it will be difficult, but do try ... liberalism does NOT equate to intellectualism! Perhaps if you repeat it three times or something?

Try to remember this, I know it will be difficult, but do try ... liberalism does NOT equate to intellectualism! Perhaps if you repeat it three times or something?

Hmmm I really don't see where he is making the claim that all liberals are intellectuals.

However, intellectual tends to involve the leftish idealogies.

How many times have you heard a liberal sue a school because a book offends them?

How many conservatives have you heard ban or censor or even burn books?

Hmmm I really don't see where he is making the claim that all liberals are intellectuals.

However, intellectual tends to involve the leftish idealogies.

How many times have you heard a liberal sue a school because a book offends them?

How many conservatives have you heard ban or censor or even burn books?
My school ... ironicly an ELECTIVE religious texts as lite as lit class (we only actualy spent 1 week on christianity of the whole trimester)

It was actualy a literary study cource ... I am agnostic and still found it to be incredibly informitive

But two students who did not even take the course sued because they felt like the koran should not be tought because of their beleifs
(note this was one of the 9-10 great different english courses ... there was everything from play study to newspaper history study out there)

They happened to both be strait left voters ... we are not imune

My school ... ironicly an ELECTIVE religious texts as lite as lit class (we only actualy spent 1 week on christianity of the whole trimester)

It was actualy a literary study cource ... I am agnostic and still found it to be incredibly informitive

But two students who did not even take the course sued because they felt like the koran should not be tought because of their beleifs
(note this was one of the 9-10 great different english courses ... there was everything from play study to newspaper history study out there)

They happened to both be strait left voters ... we are not imune

True but I hope it came across that I did not suggest it never happens.

But I guess I should have added that Religion changes the factor.

Hmmm I really don't see where he is making the claim that all liberals are intellectuals.

However, intellectual tends to involve the leftish idealogies.

How many times have you heard a liberal sue a school because a book offends them?

How many conservatives have you heard ban or censor or even burn books?
Actually in the US we've had liberals and conservatives go for book banning. For example, some liberals in the US have demanded that Huck Finn be banned from schools because it uses several derogatory-to-african-american terms, even though the book is mocking such situations. There are other similar instances and some even occured in my hometown (and not always b/c claims that a book is racist, or religious in nature or something). So, don't pretend that liberals are innocent in the book banning club.

Hmmm I really don't see where he is making the claim that all liberals are intellectuals.

However, intellectual tends to involve the leftish idealogies.

How many times have you heard a liberal sue a school because a book offends them?

How many conservatives have you heard ban or censor or even burn books?
Sigh. Ok, how's this ... conservatism does NOT equate to anti-intellectualism.

The fact that you can even make a statement like "intellectual tends to involve the leftish idealogies" indicates an almost astonishing degree of brainwashing.

They are farther left than a hundred years ago, but I feel they are swinging back to the write. Some go faster than others, of course, but I've read a few books by scholars that seem to endorse right-wing thought.

Yea right the lazy stupid liberal again. :rolleyes:

A good teach makes you work no matter what. I have had bad liberal and conservative professors.

I've had some pretty bad "liberal" students, but my worst have always been the "conservative" ones. They make the msot excuses for not doing work, and if they disagree with something I say, they say I am making it up or am a closed-minded liberal.
:headbang:

Sometimes, I think conservatism is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

Ge-Ren

Has the academia swung too far left?

To my knowledge, the hill of Akademeia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy#The_original_Academy) has swung neither left nor right in at least 2600 years.

Yea right the lazy stupid liberal again. :rolleyes:

A good teach makes you work no matter what. I have had bad liberal and conservative professors.

I've had some pretty bad "liberal" students, but my worst have always been the "conservative" ones. They make the msot excuses for not doing work, and if they disagree with something I say, they say I am making it up or am a closed-minded liberal.


Sometimes, I think conservatism is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

Ge-Ren

I think you're missing the point. The most important thing about a teacher, or student for that matter, is not political orientation. Typically, this has little effect on how well a student or teacher does his job. Personal biases against people different from us make us notice weaknesses in them, or imagine inferiority. It makes us feel good about ourselves.

Yea right the lazy stupid liberal again. :rolleyes:

A good teach makes you work no matter what. I have had bad liberal and conservative professors.

Nope, I never said they were lazy, I just pointed out that many of them are blinded by their own politics and prejudice.

Liberal Professors = teh easy A.

I think you're missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I'm not, but I'm still listening, so let's see what you say.

The most important thing about a teacher, or student for that matter, is not political orientation. Typically, this has little effect on how well a student or teacher does his job. Personal biases against people different from us make us notice weaknesses in them, or imagine inferiority. It makes us feel good about ourselves.

I think in general I agree with you, thus why I've put "liberal" or "conservative" in quotes when discussing students. That doesn't take away from the fact that some of my laziest and most dishonest students have called themselves "conservatives." I think the political term is actually used in an academic sense, and some people have used it as an excuse for different personal agendas. I think that the bad "conservative" students I've had chose the therm because it was the easiest way to say they were too mentally indiligent to explore their views. I have NOT seen "liberal" students use this particular excuse: they tend to be much more creative when they are bad.

:)

Nope, I never said they were lazy, I just pointed out that many of them are blinded by their own politics and prejudice.

Liberal Professors = teh easy A.

Clearly, you never were in my class. I was one of the hardest graders in the university, and all my students knew it. To be "liberal" has never meant to be easy on students. Be lucky you never took one of my classes.


Ge-Ren