NationStates Jolt Archive

So...let's hear it.

Who did you think was the world's greatest leader?

My vote's for Winston Churchill. He led Britain through her greatest trial ever, and held a nation together even against impossible odds.

Ghengis Khan

Herbert the Significant of England.

He lived in the 12th century, the guy was freakin' awesome. He had 22 wives, several castles, and a giraffe!

While Herbert the Significant kicks major boo-tay, I'd have to go with Winston Churchill.

definately NOT winston churchill, he was a racist and was the first to use chemical warfare (against the kurds I believe).

I would say the Dalai Lama.

Lenin :D

ditto. Lenin was kewel. :cool:

Lenin :D
until that b-stard chapman shot him!

Gustavus Adolphus (Gustav II Adolf).

Stalin, I mean he rulled with on iron fist. The man was smart, and used his wits to gain power.

He was okay- remarkable in the industrial power he could gain in such a short time- but I just don't agree with all of the brutality he used.

He was okay- remarkable in the industrial power he could gain in such a short time- but I just don't agree with all of the brutality he used.

Alright, Many leaders used the same tactics, Ivan The Terable for example.

I have a few votes.

1. Frederick Barbarrossa - unified the German states
2. Ghengis Kahn - dude, him and bunch of people on horses conquered most of Asia
3. Winston Churchill
4. George Washington
5. Thomas Jefferson

5. Thomas Jefferson

In some ways he was, but in other ways he wasn't. I do think is is one of the 20 best leaders ever, but I would only put him at 18 on my list.

I think it's awfully hard to pin down a single best, but we can find a flock of the top 5 or 10 and that's most certain.

definately NOT winston churchill, he was a racist and was the first to use chemical warfare (against the kurds I believe).


Now, I would have to disagree with that... the Germans used chemical warfare in the form of mustard gas in the world war before winston churchill was prime minister of Britain, so i think thats slightly... wrong.

until that b-stard chapman shot him!
er... Lenin wasn't shot he died after being paralysed from a stroke.
Unless you're talking about John Lennon (i think thats the spelling..) yeah, he was cool.

My vote would be with Alexander the Great. I mean, who else singlehandedly conquerored half of the entire known world of his time?

1) Charlemagne
2) Barbarossa (back to back creators of Holy Roman Empires...funny)
3) Genghis Khan (single largest land empire ever)
4) Stalin (greatest leader of the 20th century, and even many Russians who lost family to his purges admit this, and love him for what he did for the nation)
5) Cyrus the Great (One could make a case that he ultimately failed, but given the longevity/power of the Persian Empire, that is definitely not the case)


Other Notables:
Justinian
Shaka Zulu
Attilla the Hun
Sargon the Great
Saladin

Now, I would have to disagree with that... the Germans used chemical warfare in the form of mustard gas in the world war before winston churchill was prime minister of Britain, so i think thats slightly... wrong.

Thats putting it mildly. If anything I think "Absurdely lacking in the slightest contact with reality" would be a little closer to the truth.

Unquestionably, in my mind, Alexander the Great was the greatest leader the world has ever seen, if sheer authority, ambition, and iron will are to be the main guidelines. I must say, however, that in ruling ability Napoleon Bonaparte reigns supreme - the "great man of the nineteenth century" was and is one of the most remarkable individuals I have ever encountered. Definitely what i would call a "gifted leader." :p

I must agree with Tremalkier when it comes to Sargon the Great and Justinian, but I don't think Attila the Hun (admirably shrewd genius though he indisputably was!) would qualify as one of the world's best leaders.

And Hitler (loathe him though I do), while he made some serious tactical mistakes, was indeed a genius leader.

Come to think of it, FDR was a pretty smart man, misleading the American people as long as he did. :)

Unquestionably, in my mind, Alexander the Great was the greatest leader the world has ever seen, if sheer authority, ambition, and iron will are to be the main guidelines. I must say, however, that in ruling ability Napoleon Bonaparte reigns supreme - the "great man of the nineteenth century" was and is one of the most remarkable individuals I have ever encountered. Definitely what i would call a "gifted leader." :p
That you have encountered? Just how old are you? Or do you have a time machine? :p ;)

I've encountered ole' Boney many times, as I have Al G. - You see, they're both immortals. ;)

I've encountered ole' Boney many times, as I have Al G. - You see, they're both immortals. ;)
I wish I were immortal...I love Highlander. I wrote a paper on the 1st movie for an English class my last year. The TV show is great too, just because Adrian Paul is the man.

You lost me entirely - I have noooo clue who that is, lol.

Lenin, most definately.

Snowboarding, I wrote a biography of Boney, the extremely shortened version of whcih is online - http://journals.aol.com/caiusagrippa/SummitofGreatness/

That's the link; thought you might be interested in reading it.

hmmmm...

Winston Churchill and Reagan.

But, if you mean sheer power, Stalin, Ghengis Khan, and Hitler, while insane maniacal totalitarians, are definately are up there.

Reagan.

ROTFLMAO

My god how can you call him one of the best leaders ever, he was as bad as Bush jr is for us now.

Snowboarding, I wrote a biography of Boney, the extremely shortened version of whcih is online - http://journals.aol.com/caiusagrippa/SummitofGreatness/

That's the link; thought you might be interested in reading it.
Too long for me to read tonight, but thanks :)
I'll finish it tomorrow whenever I wake up.
G'night.

ROTFLMAO

My god how can you call him one of the best leaders ever, he was as bad as Bush jr is for us now.


1. WBush isn't a junior. His father was George Herbert Walker Bush. He is George Walker Bush. His father was HW. He is W.

2. It's debateable whether or not WBush is a good leader or not. I don't want to go into that on this thread.

3. Hmmm, so tell me exactly how you can defeat the Soviets like he did and not be a good leader? I'd love to hear your response. And please, don't try to tell me "the Soviet Union collapsed on it's own". That's ridiculous.

Reagan was one of the best presidents the US has ever had.

3. Hmmm, so tell me exactly how you can defeat the Soviets like he did and not be a good leader? I'd love to hear your response. And please, don't try to tell me "the Soviet Union collapsed on it's own". That's ridiculous.

The Soviet Union collapsed:

1. Because after Stalin no copendent leader came into power.

2. Because the flow of the information age could not be controlled.

3. Because the leaders after Lenin and Stalin couldn't run an economny worth shit.

*looks at poster of Stalin above his Mac*

Now, I would have to disagree with that... the Germans used chemical warfare in the form of mustard gas in the world war before winston churchill was prime minister of Britain, so i think thats slightly... wrong.

Ah, you're right, the brits didn't starts using it against the Iraqis until the 1920's.

Thats putting it mildly. If anything I think "Absurdely lacking in the slightest contact with reality" would be a little closer to the truth.

Now that's a little harsh matey, he was at least a pioneer of chemical warfare. Not a nice guy.

i think the best was stalin since he took a 3rd world nation and turned it in2 a world power (russia)

Andrew Jackson. Damn that guy was a Badass!

FDR, Winston Churchill, Genghis Khan, and Alexander the Great are all on that list, along with Hitler and Stalin.

Andrew Jackson. Damn that guy was a Badass!

The Guy Fucked the Native Americans and was a Racest.

1. WBush isn't a junior. His father was George Herbert Walker Bush. He is George Walker Bush. His father was HW. He is W.

2. It's debateable whether or not WBush is a good leader or not. I don't want to go into that on this thread.

3. Hmmm, so tell me exactly how you can defeat the Soviets like he did and not be a good leader? I'd love to hear your response. And please, don't try to tell me "the Soviet Union collapsed on it's own". That's ridiculous.

There have been many stupid posts on this thread, but you have been nominated as THE stupidest. Thanks for laugh.

1 & 2. Really not worth responding to.

3. Reagan. Yes, he defeated the Soviets with his bare hands. The previous 30 years of US policy had nothing to do with it.

Tito was the smartest leader in history in my opinion
:eek:

Alexander the great

Charlemange

Napoleon Bonaparte

General Lee (American civil war general)

Genges Khan

Ghandi

can rearrange in any order

Good - then Bonaparte goes right under Alexander the Great. :)

Oh, and I would suggest that Julius Caesar be made number three.

Thomas Jefferson, Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan

Urho Kekkonen.
Finland four teh vvin!

Bryan Robson was pretty good

Winston Churchill

Churchill, Napoleon and Elizabeth I (of England) are all on my list.

Recent: Ghandi. He kept a boiling pot of religious hatred from over-spilling until he was murdered by being the most respected man in one of the most populated countries in the world.

Ancient: Alexander the Great. Conquering half the world before you were 25 must count for something!

Ok gengis Khan unit a bunch of nomadic horseman tribes to lead the greatest conquest of all time! Russia, China, Persia even some of eastern Europe! they were so cool!! Killing every man over the height of a cart wheel in their conquerd teritories!!!

Poor Margaret - no-one's mentioned her yet. Margaret Thatcher is probably the greatest leader (except Churchill) that Britain has ever seen. Many people hated her but she must have done something right to be elected 3 times.

I would also have to say Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is a great leader. Despite not having any real power, she has represented Britain in a way that no Prime Minister ever could. Her mother (the Queen Mother) was practically a god during the war as well!!!

I can see the Winston Churchill as the world's 2nd greatest leader but defnitley not the first. That is because while he was in power he let the war to with hitler to break out. By the time Hitler came to Poland he already took over czech and austria. France and Britian should have declared war on him when he took over czech. Also Britian should have been bettered prepared for the war. But otherwise he was a great leader. The 2nd best.

Now I would have to say the best leader was FDR. He ruled a country from his wheel chair. And he ran a successful war from there too. On top of that he made the US a superpower. The strongest it ever was. He also made some of the best programs and brought the US's economy out of the shitter. Plus he is the only president to be elected three times. So that is why I think he was the best.

Poor Margaret - no-one's mentioned her yet. Margaret Thatcher is probably the greatest leader (except Churchill) that Britain has ever seen. Many people hated her but she must have done something right to be elected 3 times.

Many people got elected more than 3 times simlpy by having lousy opposition.

What about Castro? Revolted, stood up to US, survived the communist fall. Made a small third world country which has been repressed from every nation around him into a country with well educated population that sends doctors to third world countries, produces medicin that the west hasn't.
Still going strong after lot's of years.

He's doing somethings right, however far from everything. But has there ever been a leader surviving a rougher position?

I can see the Winston Churchill as the world's 2nd greatest leader but defnitley not the first. That is because while he was in power he let the war to with hitler to break out. By the time Hitler came to Poland he already took over czech and austria. France and Britian should have declared war on him when he took over czech. Also Britian should have been bettered prepared for the war. But otherwise he was a great leader. The 2nd best.



He came to power AFTER the war broke out. Idiot.

Oh and as for Thatcher, 3 Million unemployed, need I say more?

Ron Jeremy! :cool:

Ron Jeremy! :cool:
?

Herbert the Significant of England.

He lived in the 12th century, the guy was freakin' awesome. He had 22 wives, several castles, and a giraffe!

Hmmm. Riiiight. A long lost son of one of the Henry's, eh? Or perhaps a creation of the Monte Python folks?

I think Gandhi did more with less than anyone mentioned. The guy had nothing but a message and the force of his own personality and yet he was instrumental in freeing India from the mightiest Empire in the world.

Toaster, leader of the OOOHjam army in Bude Cornwall

would this be Toaster, the famous cycle riding jaffa cake enthuisast ?

Robert E. Lee

Let's give some votes to Julius Ceaser as well

Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev.

Frederick II the great of Prussia.

I'm not an expert on ancient history, but without a doubt Napoleon is the greatest leader of the last 500 years. He gave the Jews of Europe equality, came up with a legal system still used to this day and conquered most of Europe. Napoleon kicks ass.

While not as cool as Napoleon, Gustav Adolphus and Charles V (Holy Roman Empire) are also worthy candidates.

I'm not an expert on ancient history, but without a doubt Napoleon is the greatest leader of the last 500 years. He gave the Jews of Europe equality, came up with a legal system still used to this day and conquered most of Europe. Napoleon kicks ass.

While not as cool as Napoleon, Gustav Adolphus and Charles V (Holy Roman Empire) are also worthy candidates.
He also gave his troops licence to commit mass genpcide in Spain.

Winston Churchill and Reagan.

Of the 20th century, most definatly, but overall no. I'm going with Robert E. Lee

Well.. I'm gonna have to say Stalin, he's just plain cool.
But Clinton comes in second, why? Because he got some, and got in trouble for it. That's just funny.

Well.. I'm gonna have to say Stalin, he's just plain cool.
But Clinton comes in second, why? Because he got some, and got in trouble for it. That's just funny.

Yeah, Stalin was cool. Anyone who can kill more people in his own country than the Nazis could manage is cool. Boy, that's really cool. What, over 25 million of his own people, and the Nazis couldn't manage half that. What an accomplishment! All hail the great Stalin! Yeah, but he could really run a country, couldn't he. He's right up there with Hitler, the man who made the trains run on time... to Auschwitz.

Hmm. Great leaders? Leading a country does not make one great...

England/Britain: Winston Churchill, Elizabeth I, Clement Atlee, Henry V

Europe: Napoleon Bonaparte (France), Bismarck (Prussia, Germany), Frederick the Great (Prussia), Victor Emmanuel II (Sardinia-Piedmont, Italy), Metternich (Austria-Hungary), Adolf Hitler (grudgingly added, Germany), Wilhelm I (Prussia, Germany), Francisco Franco (Spain), VI Lenin (USSR), Stalin (again, grudgingly added, USSR)

USA: Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Eisenhower, Truman.

Trudeau!

Santa Claus!

Santa Claus!

Too late, you're still getting coal this year.

Andrew Jackson. Damn that guy was a Badass!


Dunno 'bout you...
but I'd say the Trail of Tears was closer to "Evil" than "Badass".

Mirabeau, my personal hero.

Of the 20th century, most definatly, but overall no. I'm going with Robert E. Lee

Alright, true. I didn't think back nearly far enough.

Bismarck is obviously up there.

There have been many stupid posts on this thread, but you have been nominated as THE stupidest. Thanks for laugh.

Glad to have such an honor.

Nikita Khrushchev and Saladin come to mind..

Robert E. Lee

He was a fine college administrator, but he didn't fare too well if we are factoring in the won/lost column.

Lu Bu.....Well he owned a state
:p

Personally, I'd say Saladin.

Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev.

By promoting freandly relations with the west the Soviet Union started to slowly fall over the next 30 years.

Recent: Ghandi. He kept a boiling pot of religious hatred from over-spilling until he was murdered by being the most respected man in one of the most populated countries in the world.

Ancient: Alexander the Great. Conquering half the world before you were 25 must count for something!

I'm a bit surprised I had to get this far in the thread to read Ghandi's name being mentioned, but he was the *first* name that popped into my mind.

I'd like to think some more, but for now, my vote will go with Ghandi.

I'd have to say either Qin Shi Huangdai (for unifying China and making it the regional superpower), or Emperor Constantine (for utterly altering the dynamic of the Roman Empire, from a Pagan/Latin one to a Christian/Greek one).

Winston Churchill, in my opinion one of the smartest people alive, I think he was the only one who saw through Hitler from the start. And even though he was insane I still like Joseph Stalin.

He was a fine college administrator, but he didn't fare too well if we are factoring in the won/lost column.

Well, his overall war record was one and one. His battle record was pretty good as well, considering.

England/Britain: Winston Churchill, Elizabeth I, Clement Atlee, Henry V.

Clement Atlee????!!!!

w00t for JFK!

JFK,, more spin than my ping pong bat

Vladimir Illyich Lenin

The Right Honourable Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill

Dan Quayle. no competition.

Lenin :D

I hope you're joking.

Winston Churchill, in my opinion one of the smartest people alive, I think he was the only one who saw through Hitler from the start. And even though he was insane I still like Joseph Stalin.


Winston Churchill isnt alive.


Stalin killed almost ten times as many people as hitler.

Stalin was the most wicked scumbag leader who has ever lived.

Ancient: Alexander the Great. Conquering half the world before you were 25 must count for something!

when everone died by age 35, no. not really.

I can't name mine. People would flame the s**t out of me. :(

What about Lester Pearson? He single-handedly prevented the Suez Crisis from turning into WWIII.

To the people who said Stalin, because of the alleged good he did for the country, that's pure b.s. Without U.S. aid, the USSR would have collapsed as early as 1921. U.S. aid and trade is the only thing that kept the USSR alive as long as it did.

To the people who said Stalin, because of the alleged good he did for the country, that's pure b.s. Without U.S. aid, the USSR would have collapsed as early as 1921. U.S. aid and trade is the only thing that kept the USSR alive as long as it did.

There was no US aid to the USSR and since the revolution of 1917 the USA did everything to destroy the Soviet Union. In the civil war which followed the revolution countries like the USA and Britain supported the monarchists and helped them in their fight against the communists.

There was no US aid to the USSR and since the revolution of 1917 the USA did everything to destroy the Soviet Union. In the civil war which followed the revolution countries like the USA and Britain supported the monarchists and helped them in their fight against the communists.

Read all about it in Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development, National Suicide: Military Aid to the Soviet Union and The Best Enemy Money Can Buy by Antony Sutton, The Traitor Trade by J.B. Hutton, Are the Russians Ten Feet Tall? by Werner Keller, The Russian Space Bluff by Leonid Vladimirov, The Secret War For the A-bomb by Medford Evans, and Survival is Not Enough: Soviet Realities and America's Future by Prof. Richard Pipes.

There was no US aid to the USSR and since the revolution of 1917 the USA did everything to destroy the Soviet Union. In the civil war which followed the revolution countries like the USA and Britain supported the monarchists and helped them in their fight against the communists.

The U.S.A.'s "anticommunism," was phonier than a three dollar bill. If you want proof, I'll be happy to list some sources.

Al Gore!! For inventing the internet which all of you are using without even thanking the man once! How ungrateful! :D

But seriously, most of you are thinking too small...either just 20th century or just within one country, England.

Think BIG, both globally and time frame.

I think Napoleon had the greatest impact followed closely by Alexander.

1. Cyrus the Great
2. Winston Churchill
3. Gandhi
4. Benito Mussolini
5. Fidel Castro

On a lighter note, Pierre Trudeau was a Canadian PM but never had the impact those five did on their respective countries.

Now, I would have to disagree with that... the Germans used chemical warfare in the form of mustard gas in the world war before winston churchill was prime minister of Britain, so i think thats slightly... wrong.
I guess the guy was referring to Churchill's gas attacks on "uncivilised" tribes in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. This was when he was in the army, not when he was prime minister.

All the people who say Stalin are crazy. He was an evil genocidal man. I know it's hard to find a leader who hasn't done evil things, so I'll just have to say Gandhi.

3. Hmmm, so tell me exactly how you can defeat the Soviets like he did and not be a good leader? I'd love to hear your response. And please, don't try to tell me "the Soviet Union collapsed on it's own". That's ridiculous.
What's so ridiculous? They had just about the worst possible economic system ever.

Though I would say Reagan speeded up the inevitable collapse by five to ten years, and that was good. What I really have against Reagan is the interfering in Central America. He always used heavy-handed tactics there, for the express purpose of killing or terrorising as many people as possible.

(Pauses, takes a deep breath) I know people are going to flame my ass to a crisp for this, but what-the-hell, I think the greatest world leader was (braces himself for flames): Iandouglassmith. (Lets out a deep sigh, starts panting)

All the people who say Stalin are crazy. He was an evil genocidal man. I know it's hard to find a leader who hasn't done evil things, so I'll just have to say Gandhi.


What's so ridiculous? They had just about the worst possible economic system ever.

Though I would say Reagan speeded up the inevitable collapse by five to ten years, and that was good. What I really have against Reagan is the interfering in Central America. He always used heavy-handed tactics there, for the express purpose of killing or terrorising as many people as possible.

See my above post. The U.S. is the only thing that prevented the USSR from collapsing.

The U.S.A.'s "anticommunism," was phonier than a three dollar bill. If you want proof, I'll be happy to list some sources.
Thanks for tht reading list, but if the US was just pretending to be anti-communist, why did it go through an arms race whose obvious purpose was to trick the Soviets into spending too much money? Why did it fight proxy wars in Korea and Vietnam?

Thanks for tht reading list, but if the US was just pretending to be anti-communist, why did it go through an arms race whose obvious purpose was to trick the Soviets into spending too much money? Why did it fight proxy wars in Korea and Vietnam?

Corporations made a killing during those two wars. They also made a killing from all that trade with the USSR.

Ok, just for the sake of argument, I'm going to suggest a couple of Australian Leaders, but as Australian History is one of the least studied topics in the world, I really don't expect much meaningful commentary.

Edmond Barton - Member of the First constitutional Convention of Australia, Key in uniting the States of Australia and was Australia's first Prime Minister, enacting key laws for Defence, Trade and Immigration.

Robert Gordon Menzies - Lead Australia through Economic Hardships of the later part of the Post WWI Era, elected on 2 Separate occasions as Prime Minister to total 17.5 years in office (Near 1/5 the total time of self-rule for Australia) Key in building Australia's Tertiary Educational and Scientific Research system in times when Australian industry was overwhelmingly dominated by Primary Industry.

John Curtin - Prime Minister During WWII, The first Prime Minister in Australian history to face Invasion, He brokered a Deal with the US (Formalised as ANSUS after WWII) to Defend our coastline, and Developed the "Brisbane Line" Defence to full scale invasion (IE. Scorched Earth North of Brisbane, troops to defend South of Brisbane). Died in office in 1945 (Weeks before VP).

Well, you can't say I didn't try to back an Australian. :)

Semar

Ok, just for the sake of argument, I'm going to suggest a couple of Australian Leaders, but as Australian History is one of the least studied topics in the world, I really don't expect much meaningful commentary.

Edmond Barton - Member of the First constitutional Convention of Australia, Key in uniting the States of Australia and was Australians first Prime Minister, enacting key laws for Defence, Trade and Immigration.

Robert Gordon Menzies - Lead Australia through Economic Hardships of the later part of the Post WWI Era, elected on 2 Separate occasions as Prime Minister to total 17.5 years in office (Near 1/5 the total time of self-rule for Australia) Key in building Australia's Tertiary Educational and Scientific Research system in times when Australian industry was overwhelmingly dominated by Primary Industry.

John Curtin - Prime Minister During WWII, The first Prime Minister in Australian history to face Invasion, He brokered a Deal with the US (Formalised as ANSUS after WWII) to Defend our coastline, and Developed the "Brisbane Line" Defence to full scale invasion (IE. Scorched Earth North of Brisbane, troops to defend South of Brisbane). Died in office in 1945 (Weeks before VP).

Well, you can't say I didn't try to back an Australian. :)

Semar

Menzies kicked ass! :D

Unquestionably, in my mind, Alexander the Great was the greatest leader the world has ever seen, if sheer authority, ambition, and iron will are to be the main guidelines. I must say, however, that in ruling ability Napoleon Bonaparte reigns supreme - the "great man of the nineteenth century" was and is one of the most remarkable individuals I have ever encountered. Definitely what i would call a "gifted leader." :p

Bah.. Napolean was fool.. he failed his country not once but twice.. Ceasar was a true emperor among emperors.. building the greatest civilization of all time.. 1000 years of life! after him Octavianus was the next greatest leader.. bringing the greatest empire time has known into an era of seemingly endless peace

Wow has this convo gotten sidetracked and in a response, winston churchill did not use chemical warfare against the kurds u moron that was Saddam, it was first used in WWI against the Germans, but all in all killed more brits then germans. Also, the first successful chemical attack was in Ypres against the Canadians by the Germans.

Now for my leader of choice...

*Drumroll*

FDR.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt baby!

He rocked. He held the States through its toughest time, united the nation and made them patriotic again. He also held onto US leadership for 4 consecutive terms, they wanted him to run for a 5th term but he said noa nd soon after died, wow, no ones even come close, and no one will anymore, as thats not allowed anymore.

My vote goes to Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte. Reasons: Great Statesman, Great strategist, Great tactician, moderate lover, good lawmaker, good people person, crowned Himself Emperor, rose from poverty to greatness to bottom, coined phrases and words, and had a dessert named after him.

Others (not in order):

Julius Caesar
Charlemagne
Augustus
George Washington
Louis XIV
Constantine I
Justinian
Alexander the Great
Winston Churchill
Giuseppe Garbaldi (Hey, I'm Italian)

Umm yeah i'll go Gahndi, Followed by Martin Luther King Jr, Luther(you know the guy with the thesis on the church door). I'll also go Jesus Christ(wehter you belive or not), he did in effect luanch the most succsesful Philosphy of all time.

For guys who conquered. Alexander the great. it would either be him or Ghengis Kahn. However Ghengis Kahn's army which was who would have guessed it cavalry, never left an area in which cavalry is very effective.
Alexander however had to use the Phalanx which funtions optimally on level ground free of brush in the broken gorund of the Persian empire.

Menzies kicked ass! :D

Yeah Menzies was great, Really kicked this country into gear, we can thank him for our world class tertiary education system, which trains graduates who end up having to leave the country to find work, and for our worldwide image as inventors, but not entrepreneurs due to the poorly supported and lacklustre venture capital market.

Now if only we could get a government to build on Menzies Legacy, instead of trying to work against it.

Semar

Yeah Menzies was great, Really kicked this country into gear, we can thank him for our world class tertiary education system, which trains graduates who end up having to leave the country to find work, and for our worldwide image as inventors, but not entrepreneurs due to the poorly supported and lacklustre venture capital market.

Now if only we could get a government to build on Menzies Legacy, instead of trying to work against it.

Semar

I'm no Aussie, but Menzies is still a hero of mine. :)

I'm no Aussie, but Menzies is still a hero of mine. :)

Thats unusual, for all the foreign people I know, most don't even know his name, let alone count him as a hero of theirs. May I ask where you come from and why you like him?

Semar

Thats unusual, for all the foreign people I know, most don't even know his name, let alone count him as a hero of theirs. May I ask where you come from and why you like him?

Semar

I'm American. I dunno, I read up on him, and I liked what I heard. He's a damn good statesman.

FDR, Stalin, etc.
The "greatest leaders" list is just making me sick to my stomach.

Publius Scipio Africanus

Reagan was one of the best presidents the US has ever had.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

when will the selective memory end?!?!

it's hysterical how when Reagan was President he gets props for everything, in spite of a Democratic Congress...but anything that Clinton did right was really all because of the Republican Congress. Dems do the same thing, but I'm just soooooooooooooooo tired of the Reagan worship.

Reagan didn't defeat anyone. We (meaning all of us who pay taxes) OUTSPENT the USSR and forced them into an utter chaos that overwhelmed their governmental system. Reagan and his advisers were smart enough to run with the opportunity when it presented itself and they should be commended for it. He has his airport...enough already.

Great Presidents serve in times that require greatness...Bush the 1st is actually one of my favorites due to the hand dealt to him. He should get props for taking on the horrific economy that was handed to him by the supply-siders and their Reagan-omics. They destroyed our economy and yet still...bow down to the Great Reagan!!! Barf! such selective memories...so desperate for a hero. double-barf!

FDR, Lincoln and Jefferson...my mo-fo's!!!!

Stalin killed almost ten times as many people as hitler.



Stalin killed more people than smallpox!!!
:eek:

He has his airport...enough already.



He's going to have the flagship of the Atlantic fleet soon, too.

Reagan was certainly one of our greatest presidents. It's hard not to think that, reguardless of your political philosophy. He oversaw the greastest peace-time economic expansion in the country's history, and dealt perfectly with the Soviets, and growing terrorist threats.

He oversaw the greastest peace-time economic expansion in the country's history

I think most economists might offer an opposing opinion to that. His policies put us in the recession of the early 1990's...REMEMBER?!?!?! that's what allowed Clinton to beat Bush I..."it's the economy stupid"

Clinton oversaw the greatest peacetime expansion, but I'm sure that it's all due to policies of the previous admin or due to the GOP congress or because of aliens that decide our collective fate, right?

I think most economists might offer an opposing opinion to that. His policies put us in the recession of the early 1990's...REMEMBER?!?!?! that's what allowed Clinton to beat Bush I..."it's the economy stupid"

Clinton oversaw the greatest peacetime expansion, but I'm sure that it's all due to policies of the previous admin or due to the GOP congress or because of aliens that decide our collective fate, right?

Ah, partisan politics Just got to love it.

Makes me wonder about the next era of the Howard government here in Australia, because the Government will control the House of Reps and The Senate. I wonder if any of the things that Howard has planned will be accredited to his government or to the previous government (6 Years Ago Now), regardless of such overwhelming control of Australian politics.

Semar

Ps. Kudos to Roach-Busters for escaping a long-term stereotype of Americans (and to a lesser extent, All of us), that they don't study World History at all (unless it effects them directly) and consider outside leaders to be of lesser quality then their own.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

when will the selective memory end?!?!

it's hysterical how when Reagan was President he gets props for everything, in spite of a Democratic Congress...but anything that Clinton did right was really all because of the Republican Congress. Dems do the same thing, but I'm just soooooooooooooooo tired of the Reagan worship.

Reagan didn't defeat anyone. We (meaning all of us who pay taxes) OUTSPENT the USSR and forced them into an utter chaos that overwhelmed their governmental system. Reagan and his advisers were smart enough to run with the opportunity when it presented itself and they should be commended for it. He has his airport...enough already.
Well, if you look at the time periods, you'd see why. Democratic control of the House was shaky at best on many issues, due to the fact that their majority was based on Southern Democrats (boll-wevils) who continually defected to the Republican side on voting matters. The reason the Republicans took controll of the House in 1994 was because the South stopped sending Democratic representatives en masse.