NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, I've seen an ASSLOAD of people claiming that America is a Christian Nation, and that it was founded as a Christian Nation. How can someone claim this when there are historical documents blatantly denying it?

Example :

http://ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.php

In 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington's presidency, and approved by the Senate under John Adams.


Although this was published by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, there is still no reason to discredit it on that basis. Historical facts can't be denied.


okay, my rant ends here.

You will get nowhere.

lol

compared to a theocracy, no america isnt a christian state

however, compared to other industralized and first world nations, they are VERY christian.

There is nowhere else in the world where there is a debate about evolution. not even Canada.

You will get nowhere.

shhh..don't tell them, lol.

Actually, I don't want to get anywhere,lol. I'm just finding a way to waste some time before something interesting happens. The Evolution debate is old, since I have no opinion.

You are right, but your interpretation is way off.

You are right about how we were not founded as a Christian nation, however, we have not remained that way, and our country has changed, and thats why this "assload" of people claim we are NOW a christian nation.

The government does not have to announce this in order for it to be true, keep in mind. in the 1950s, to contrast ourselves against the Godless communists during the Cold war, we basically began a re-establishment so that we would be more of a Christian nation.

shhh..don't tell them, lol.

Actually, I don't want to get anywhere,lol. I'm just finding a way to waste some time before something interesting happens. The Evolution debate is old, since I have no opinion.

You don't have an opinion about evolution?
You presumably don't have an opinion about Newton's gravitational laws, then.

And America is run by a small clique of Christian fundamentalists, allied with a government propped up by Jewish fundamentalists, and picking on Muslim fundamentalists.
And people say religion is a good thing...

You are right, but your interpretation is way off.

You are right about how we were not founded as a Christian nation, however, we have not remained that way, and our country has changed, and thats why this "assload" of people claim we are NOW a christian nation.

The government does not have to announce this in order for it to be true, keep in mind. in the 1950s, to contrast ourselves against the Godless communists during the Cold war, we basically began a re-establishment so that we would be more of a Christian nation.

Hopefully you mean "Godless communists" in a sarcastic way.


Perhaps my first post was a bit off in what I was trying to say. There is a specific user in another thread who repeatedly argued that "America's original foundation was Christianity". That is what I wish to refute.

You don't have an opinion about evolution?
You presumably don't have an opinion about Newton's gravitational laws, then.

And America is run by a small clique of Christian fundamentalists, allied with a government propped up by Jewish fundamentalists, and picking on Muslim fundamentalists.
And people say religion is a good thing...

Okay, it's not that I don't have an opinion, it's that I don't care about arguing over the miniscule details of either side.

Okay, it's not that I don't have an opinion, it's that I don't care about arguing over the miniscule details of either side.

Fair enough.
Actually I think that by the standards of the time (which were pretty religious), America, like Revolutionary France, did its best to divorce Church and State. In the UK, we still haven't got around to it, although the Church of England has pretty much withered on the vine anyway.
Trouble is, while the Constitution might try to separate Church and State, America is still by any definition of the term one of the most religious of 'Christian' nations, especially in the central regions. For this reason religion has become inexorably entwined in your politics in recent years in a way that it hasn't in most countries of Europe (Ireland being a pretty notable exception). As an atheist I think this is a bad thing. But then I would, wouldn't I?

treaty of tripoli (barbarous treaties) article 11

Fair enough.
Actually I think that by the standards of the time (which were pretty religious), America, like Revolutionary France, did its best to divorce Church and State. In the UK, we still haven't got around to it, although the Church of England has pretty much withered on the vine anyway.
Trouble is, while the Constitution might try to separate Church and State, America is still by any definition of the term one of the most religious of 'Christian' nations, especially in the central regions. For this reason religion has become inexorably entwined in your politics in recent years in a way that it hasn't in most countries of Europe (Ireland being a pretty notable exception). As an atheist I think this is a bad thing. But then I would, wouldn't I?


Personally, I don't like religion getting mixed up in politics because there's such a wide variety of groups in both of them.

treaty of tripoli (barbarous treaties) article 11


Yes, that is the document to which I referred.

Is this the regular part of the game? I clicked on the sidebar of my nation display, and I'm in a forum that doesn't seem to be about the game.

Is this the regular part of the game? I clicked on the sidebar of my nation display, and I'm in a forum that doesn't seem to be about the game.

That's because you're not paying attention to what you're doing.

*holds user up by shirt collar* newbie barbecue, anyone?

Stupid question, I know, but does anyone care to refute my historical evidence? :rolleyes:

*trollbait*

Stupid question, I know, but does anyone care to refute my historical evidence? :rolleyes:

*trollbait*
Its probably because there are a good number of other quotes floating around that show the Founding Fathers support government based on "virtue" and "morality". People make the mistake of assuming that the Founding Fathers were all Christian, when they weren't. To say that America was founded as a Christian nation is wrong, but to say that they wanted morality and government separate is a different story.

We all know that America is not a Christian nation. It's trying to convince the people that think America is a Christian nation that it isn't which is a bit more tricky.

Its probably because there are a good number of other quotes floating around that show the Founding Fathers support government based on "virtue" and "morality". People make the mistake of assuming that the Founding Fathers were all Christian, when they weren't. To say that America was founded as a Christian nation is wrong, but to say that they wanted morality and government separate is a different story.


There's nothing wrong with morality, but that's looking at it from a utopian standpoint, which will never happen.