NationStates Jolt Archive


Does anyone else have a problem with this?

Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 14:50
Or is it just me?


Police State Back
11-Year-Old Boy Questioned By Police Over ´Anti-American´ Statements

Washington Post
December 16, 2004

When the two plainclothes Loudoun County sheriff´s investigators showed up on her Leesburg doorstep, Pamela Albaugh got nervous. But when they told her why they were there, she got angry: A complaint had been filed alleging that her 11-year old son had made "anti-American and violent" statements in school.

She was aware of an incident at Belmont Ridge Middle School in which her son, Yishai Asido, was assigned to write a letter to U.S. Marines and responded, according to his teacher, by saying, "I wish all Americans were dead and that American soldiers should die." Yishai and Albaugh deny that the boy wished his countrymen dead.

Albaugh, a U.S. citizen, and her husband, an Israeli citizen who manages a Leesburg moving company, say the investigators´ visit and the school´s response were a paranoid overreaction in a charged post-9/11 environment. But law enforcement officials say the terrorist attacks and the Columbine school shootings require them to consider whether children who make threats might post a danger to their classmates. The case illustrates the balancing act that schools and law enforcement must find between the free speech of minors and community safety.

Albaugh described her son as a rambunctious student who has long opposed armies of any kind. He refused the Veterans Day assignment and told his teacher that the Marines "might as well die, as much as I care." Whatever was said, the words had been the source of anguished conferences, phone calls and, ultimately, a day of in-school suspension.

Albaugh thought the whole thing was resolved in school until Investigators Robert LeBlanc and Kelly Poland showed up last week. What followed, she said, was two hours of polite but intense and personal questioning.

They asked how she felt about 9/11 and the military. They asked whether she knows any foreigners who have trouble with American policy. They mentioned a German friend who had been staying with the family and asked whether the friend sympathized with the Taliban. They also inquired whether she might be teaching her children "anti-American values," she said.

Toward the end of the conversation, Albaugh´s husband, Alon Asido, arrived home. Asido said the pair then spent another hour talking to him, mostly about his life in Israel and his more than four years in an elite combat unit there.

Before the investigators left, one deputy said their "concerns had been put to rest," Albaugh said.

"It was intimidating," she said. "I told them it´s like a George Orwell novel, that it felt like they were the thought police. If someone would have asked me five years ago if this was something my government would do, I would have said never."

Loudoun County Sheriff Stephen O. Simpson confirmed that investigators visited the house. "Whenever there is a complaint that a child in a school is using language that is threatening or with violent overtones, we have an obligation to look into it," he said. "We can´t ignore something like that and have something tragic happen down the road that we could have prevented."

Simpson declined to comment on details of the complaint or the kinds of questions investigators asked. "If you´re looking at what [the school] said he said, I have to think you´d see where we came up with those questions," he said.

A schools spokesman declined to comment, other than to release, at Albaugh´s request, a one-page letter from Yishai´s file that explained his suspension.

His parents said the boy´s words were those of a confused adolescent, whose views of the world are still being formed. They believe that authorities were called partly because he has a foreign-sounding name and accented English from years of living abroad. The family lived in India, Europe and Israel before moving to the United States in 2000. The couple have four children, with both U.S. and Israeli citizenship, enrolled in Loudoun schools.

Albaugh said that Yishai is not violent and that the school could have used the classroom incident as a "teachable moment," helping him learn to say what he was feeling in a less offensive manner.

Instead, Yishai said he has learned that it is not worth challenging authority. "At the end of the day, you lose," he said, adding: "All of these freedoms and things they´re supposed to uphold, they bash them."

The Columbine shootings, in which a teacher and 12 students were killed by two other students in Colorado in 1999, has changed the way schools view violent words uttered by their students, said Ronald D. Stephens, executive director of the National School Safety Center. In this case, he noted, no one was arrested, no charges were filed and the case was closed.

"Sometimes the questions might be somewhat uncomfortable. But the final outcome was that [the investigators] got there and realized there was no ´there´ there," he said. "We should give credit where credit is due."

Georgetown law professor David Cole said Yishai´s statement in class is protected by the Constitution.

"There´s no indication from the student making an anti-American statement that violence to the school would follow," he said. "The FBI and government officials should be investigating real terrorists, not children who criticize the United States."
UpwardThrust
21-12-2004, 15:15
Already a thread with this in it ... I dont remember the exact title but it had 11 year old in it
Psylos
21-12-2004, 15:21
So let's have it this way. total freedom on guns, no freedom of speech. What is the use of talking when you can just shoot them straight after all?
Vittos Ordination
21-12-2004, 15:23
Already a thread with this in it ... I dont remember the exact title but it had 11 year old in it

Uh-oh (http://www.antabaka.net/music/sealab/Vacation/uh-oh.wav)
Saipea
21-12-2004, 15:53
Dude, where'd you get that? I love Sealab!
Vittos Ordination
21-12-2004, 15:59
Dude, where'd you get that? I love Sealab!

http://www.antabaka.net/music/#sealab

Loads of sounds sorted by episode.
Chess Squares
21-12-2004, 16:01
So let's have it this way. total freedom on guns, no freedom of speech. What is the use of talking when you can just shoot them straight after all?
yeah i love how the gun nuts claim they are protecting the freedoms of this nation with their precious guns yet are the last to speak out against social injustice and the elimination of our rights by the government
The Phoenix Milita
21-12-2004, 16:35
it was totally justified, you have free speech but if you make threats you get investigated its simple math, if i went into a police station and proclaimed"i hope all police offers die" would'nt YOU want to question ME????
My Gun Not Yours
21-12-2004, 16:35
yeah i love how the gun nuts claim they are protecting the freedoms of this nation with their precious guns yet are the last to speak out against social injustice and the elimination of our rights by the government

Hmm. Last I checked, I was all for speaking out against social injustice. I'm against political correctness stifling debate in our universities. I'm against most provisions of the Patriot Act. I'm bisexual and proud of it. And I'm always on the watch for anyone who wants to destroy the American way of life. I even joined the Army so that I could defend our way of life (whatever that translates to).

So, I'm doing something so you don't have to. Mind you, it may not be exactly what you wanted, but at least I'm doing something.

This was from a few days ago. I dedicate it to you:
PICTURE WARNING:

http://softlyrant.blogspot.com/

The most recent post I dedicate to Chess Squares. I promise I'll get another one for you.
Psylos
21-12-2004, 16:37
it was totally justified, you have free speech but if you make threats you get investigated its simple math, if i went into a police station and proclaimed"i hope all police offers die" would'nt YOU want to question ME????
No I would rather question the man who buy guns than the 11 year old child shouting threats.
Psylos
21-12-2004, 16:39
Hmm. Last I checked, I was all for speaking out against social injustice. I'm against political correctness stifling debate in our universities. I'm against most provisions of the Patriot Act. I'm bisexual and proud of it. And I'm always on the watch for anyone who wants to destroy the American way of life. I even joined the Army so that I could defend our way of life (whatever that translates to).

So, I'm doing something so you don't have to. Mind you, it may not be exactly what you wanted, but at least I'm doing something.

This was from a few days ago. I dedicate it to you:
PICTURE WARNING:

http://softlyrant.blogspot.com/

The most recent post I dedicate to Chess Squares. I promise I'll get another one for you.Don't you realize that the American way of life IS social injustice?
(BTW I'm unamerican filth, so probably what I say does not matter in your eyes)
My Gun Not Yours
21-12-2004, 16:42
Don't you realize that the American way of life IS social injustice?
(BTW I'm unamerican filth, so probably what I say does not matter in your eyes)

No, the American way of life is tyranny of the unwashed majority. People who have the attention span of a mosquito are asked to elect the leaders of the most powerful nation on Earth.

I'm sure that if your statement were true, we would be shoveling people into the gas chambers and burning their bodies in industrial incinerators. And what you say does matter, it's just that words don't do much without actions.
The Gamilon Empire
21-12-2004, 16:47
Colombine is still fresh in a lot of people's minds. When kids make violent statements like that, I think there can be genuine cause for concern.
Psylos
21-12-2004, 17:13
No, the American way of life is tyranny of the unwashed majority. People who have the attention span of a mosquito are asked to elect the leaders of the most powerful nation on Earth.Their leader is not Bush and co. Their leaders are the big corporate capitalists. Who they elect doesn't change anything at all since at the end of the day he will have less power than the top 10 rich people in the country. In the US, money rules.
My Gun Not Yours
21-12-2004, 17:15
Their leader is not Bush and co. Their leaders are the big corporate capitalists. Who they elect doesn't change anything at all since at the end of the day he will have less power than the top 10 rich people in the country. In the US, money rules.

You forget the bureaucracy. The huge invisible thing that can pass regulations without restriction, and do virtually anything they want without real accountability.

The members of the bureaucracy really don't change between the elections.
UpwardThrust
21-12-2004, 17:16
Their leader is not Bush and co. Their leaders are the big corporate capitalists. Who they elect doesn't change anything at all since at the end of the day he will have less power than the top 10 rich people in the country. In the US, money rules.
How does that differ with the rest of history?

Rulers are people with power


Money = form of power

Just like

Religion can = form of power

Election

Physical size

Intelligence

They are all forms of dominance … or using something to dominate … same ol same ol (and life moves on)
Psylos
21-12-2004, 17:20
How does that differ with the rest of history?

Rulers are people with power


Money = form of power

Just like

Religion can = form of power

Election

Physical size

Intelligence

They are all forms of dominance … or using something to dominate … same ol same ol (and life moves on)
Other more advanced societies are democracies : people have more power than money. Capitalism is oligarchy. Read the Republic from Plato, he explains how society advances from aristocracy to timarchy to oligarchy to democracy.
UpwardThrust
21-12-2004, 17:37
Other more advanced societies are democracies : people have more power than money. Capitalism is oligarchy. Read the Republic from Plato, he explains how society advances from aristocracy to timarchy to oligarchy to democracy.


Still Charisma itself ... the one that can compose themselves the best usually win (or can lie convincingly enough to get votes) all in all just another skill wining over

Instead of money we have more convincing liars ... yay
Psylos
21-12-2004, 17:53
Still Charisma itself ... the one that can compose themselves the best usually win (or can lie convincingly enough to get votes) all in all just another skill wining over

Instead of money we have more convincing liars ... yay
It doesn't matter when you vote issues.
UpwardThrust
21-12-2004, 17:57
It doesn't matter when you vote issues.
Yes it does ... they just convince you they are the one that cares more about the issue! it is not a land of black and white with canidates ... they all try to claim wishing the same thing. Thoes that convince you they care the most about your personal pet peve gets your vote

All a matter how how you percive their intents
Psylos
21-12-2004, 18:00
Yes it does ... they just convince you they are the one that cares more about the issue! it is not a land of black and white with canidates ... they all try to claim wishing the same thing. Thoes that convince you they care the most about your personal pet peve gets your vote

All a matter how how you percive their intents
But if the people are well educated and informed and if the administration is honest, there is democracy.
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 18:31
But if the people are well educated and informed and if the administration is honest, there is democracy.

Those are two giant ifs that couldn't be farther from reality here in the US. The few that are educated can't agree on how to run things anyway and using honesty in connection with politicians in any part of the world one must choose to be blinded by their deception. Honest politician is an oximoron of the highest order.

I never thought I'd end up on the same side of an argument with UT, but I have to give you props here.

As for the comments others have made about wanting to go after guns and suggesting that any who does not favor 'gun control' is in favor of what happened in this story needs to think again. I'm all for second ammendment rights, unrestricted ones at that, but this is a gross violation of the 1st as far as I'm concerned. Even if the kid said he wished US troops were all dead, he expressed no intent to kill them himself and even if he did he clearly did not express any theat toward the school or other students and to be investigated this way is both a violation of privacy and speech.
The Gamilon Empire
21-12-2004, 18:48
Their leader is not Bush and co. Their leaders are the big corporate capitalists. Who they elect doesn't change anything at all since at the end of the day he will have less power than the top 10 rich people in the country. In the US, money rules.

Ok, time to attend your next anti-globalizm/capitalist rally.... :headbang:
UpwardThrust
21-12-2004, 18:53
But if the people are well educated and informed and if the administration is honest, there is democracy.
Assuming they can be informed about the private ambitions of the runner sure
EASTERNBLOC
21-12-2004, 19:01
the eastern bloc believes that the usa is a captiolist bakcwards nation, coveting money from the government...
communism is the only way to glory, the west will see that soon.
UpwardThrust
21-12-2004, 19:04
the eastern bloc believes that the usa is a captiolist bakcwards nation, coveting money from the government...
communism is the only way to glory, the west will see that soon.
Lol you are asuming we care about glory
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 19:05
Lol you are asuming we care about glory


LOL :D
Psylos
22-12-2004, 09:50
Ok, time to attend your next anti-globalizm/capitalist rally.... :headbang:
I don't attend any anti-globalizm/capitalist rally. I was pointing out the fact that the US is an oligarchy and you get angry because you want to think the US is morally superior than anything else and you think democracy is superior.
Look at how you call me just for saying the US is an oligarchy. It's like I was the enemy.
Psylos
22-12-2004, 09:54
Those are two giant ifs that couldn't be farther from reality here in the US. The few that are educated can't agree on how to run things anyway and using honesty in connection with politicians in any part of the world one must choose to be blinded by their deception. Honest politician is an oximoron of the highest order.
Indeed the US is not ready for democracy. I'm just pointing out that it isn't and I was trying to explain what would be a democracy and that many countries were more democratic than oligarchic.