NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm just curious what everyone thinks of the average American these days, be you an American yourself or a foreigner. Please refrain from flaming; I want this to be civil, not a flame war.

I think generally it's a nice guy with good intentions.
The US is big so I don't think the same thing of a new yorker as of a texan.
Some are rednecks.
Usually, I can't stand those I see on TV though, especially those waving an american flag (nationlism is seen as a bad thing here).
BTW I'm a foreigner.

I balive most Americans are fine good people, however the minorty undermine how the world views you. I mean those idiouts who stood around cheering bush and waving that flag around, or the ones who hate Canada, or the ones who keeping bringing up the American revaloution and the ones who are so Chritistian that it's mad, or Bush, or Bush's goverment, or those that appear on telly. Or your music. Yep they are the ones who give you a bad name.

However most of your are fine.

I am amazed at how many people I know that hate americans, yet haven't been there. I have, and I think you are all brilliant, except those who aren't, you know like... well, Bush.

People are the same the world over. Generally good, just trying to get along in life. This means getting food, water and shelter. It's as simple as that.

the truth is that I almst know mothing about USA, but news shows and such.
as I know they had the most rich-poor divides, they had more than half from whole the money in the world, and they had great colture.
but if all the movies about USA made in USA, and the news in Israel almost never said bad things on USA (as they our strongest allies), I can't get fair opinion on them.
I think they mostly good, but sometimes their actions is stupid, and I think that only USA could bring peace to the middle east, despite the fact they had no reason to war in Iraq.
furtunaly, I don't need to get opinion, because that dosen't matter.

People are the same the world over. Generally good, just trying to get along in life. This means getting food, water and shelter. It's as simple as that.
when they just born, you right.
but after disclipnarian eduction, "brain washing", and mass propoganda, that is whole different story.
the problem is too much babies born to world of hate, and grow to become terrorists/racists/nationalists and such as.

Everyone from Boston is evil, cos i got robbed by a traveller from Boston once and also, it sounds like Michael Bolton

Everyone from Boston is evil, cos i got robbed by a traveller from Boston once and also, it sounds like Michael Bolton
Think how Bolton feel about that. Pity their poor souls.

i think most US CITIZENS consider themselves good people, and i share that thought... but sometimes, damn, you really are annoying!!

many of you do not even stop to think that there is a big, big world outside the USA, and tend to think that any place outside your country is a barbaric place, with some exceptions like europe and japan... i mean, i would think that you would know at least the location of most countries, and the kind of cultures around the world, but many of you don't! what good is the internet if it is only used to play games?

and i really, really hate the way your governments have handled international affairs, killing genuinly elected presidents of other countries (chile), removing governments (guatemala), invaded countries (too many examples: irak, afghanistan, cuba, etc), imposing economical sanctions (cuba), killing illegal inmigrants like animals (US-mexico border), etc...

i know most of you think those are horrible acts. but what surprises me, is that many of you do not know what your governments have done to other countries! stop watching cnn, turn the TV on some REAL NEWS channel!!

but to be fair, i am a strong admirer of the USA, and that is precisely why i am sometimes so disappointed about you. you can achieve so many things, and hell, you've created world of warcraft, so i think i can forgive you...

Americans just happen to live in America, other than that they're essentially the same as other people the world over.

They have too little history and therefor culture

um, i know this is a lost battle, but please keep in mind that Americans are the ones who live in the continent AMERICA.

i live in mexico. mexico is in america. therefore, i am an american.

try, just try, to call "America" (when refering to the country) USA, and "Americans" (when refering to the people that live in de USA) US citizens, or something like that

i know, almost the whole friggin world says "America" for USA and "Americans" for US citizens. but we live in "politicaly correct times", and i think is politicaly incorrect to use those terms

whew, i know, i sound like a whining baby, but hey, that's my own mini war

many of you tend to think that any place outside your country is a barbaric place, with some exceptions like europe and japan... i mean, i would think that you would know at least the location of most countries, and the kind of cultures around the world, but many of you don't! what good is the internet if it is only used to play games?
as I know, many european think as same.
that the reason many citizens in italy, germany, russia, spain and especially france, refused to speak english.
many european think that the american had no colture.

don't blame the american whole europr mostly do as same.

just wanted to say that these US people are the ones i like the most:
http://sorryeverybody.com/

as I know, many european think as same.
that the reason many citizens in italy, germany, russia, spain and especially france, refused to speak english.
many european think that the american had no colture.

don't blame the american whole europr mostly do as same.

read the Thread title -> "What do you think of Americans and why?"

i wrote about that. find me a thread about europe and then i will post what i think about them.

on the other hand, we cannot compare europe's culture to US culture.... i mean, the US is CREATING one helluva culture, but its PAST culture is childs play compared to europe's PAST culture... but that is another story

Americans are fine. They're just regular people. I'm not really bothered about the US government either. A lot of Brits are against America because of the whole Iraq war. I'm not. As far as I'm concerned if we would just declare neutrality in it I wouldn't care what America does there.

read the Thread title -> "What do you think of Americans and why?"

i wrote about that. find me a thread about europe and then i will post what i think about them.

on the other hand, we cannot compare europe's culture to US culture.... i mean, the US is CREATING one helluva culture, but its PAST culture is childs play compared to europe's PAST culture... but that is another story
I wrote about US citizens, too. but I think that it isn't right to blame them for something that almost every countrey did.

many of you do not even stop to think that there is a big, big world outside the USA, and tend to think that any place outside your country is a barbaric place, with some exceptions like europe and japan.


You're mistaken if you think US citizens make an exception, among barbaric "ouside world", for "Yurop"or Japan . Some years ago, one of them asked me if we had cars here. :rolleyes:

Have any Americans on this forum read "The Xenophobes Guide to Americans". I think thats the most accurate description of American culture I've ever read.

This is a somewhat stupid question, but lets have a look at Joe Average. He is patriotic with leanings to jingoism, US centered in regards to learning, cultural acceptance, lingual knowledge and political leaning, never left his country, consumes almost no foreign media and thus is confirmed in his slanted view of the world, is conservative (even the liberals) and consumes a lot of highly processed food making him overweight.
On the other hand he is highly flexible, quickly adapting to new life circumstances, is hard working, bend on higher education to climb the social ladder, a good entrepreneur, outgoing, friendly, caring and a real family man.
This is what strikes me when compared to a average western european citizen, which happens to the scale i have to measure with.

Wait for it.....(huge breath)..americans are arrogant, patriotic, xenophobic,
irresponsible, warmongering capitalists they should wake up and realise that the world hates Ameria and it's stupid foriegn policies!!! what's the deal with the kyoto treaty!!! save the planet.. just so that you know, I am British
:gundge:

Americans seem pretty darn decent on the whole.

Although I would say that Americans are probably the most cynical people in the world, I also think that we are mostly good people.

We do have a large group of people holding us back and giving us bad names. Ironically, those are the first to proclaim their "True American" status.

as I know, many european think as same.
that the reason many citizens in italy, germany, russia, spain and especially france, refused to speak english.
many european think that the american had no colture.

don't blame the american whole europr mostly do as same.

they actually refuse to speak english to english-speakers, italians/germans/french/etc. will happily talk to each other in english as its mostly their shared language.
as for the culture thing, no offence but an israeli can hardly talk, your country isn't even 60 years old and has a culture based on rag-tag colonial extracts.
from what i know about sociology (which i admit isn't a lot) american culture seems entirely self-destructive, it's too individualistic (with a pathological fear of the common good) and inherently violent (just look at gun crime stats). these may just be cultural quirks but i would much rather prefer another nation in charge of my world please.

Wait for it.....(huge breath)..americans are arrogant, patriotic, xenophobic,
irresponsible, warmongering capitalists they should wake up and realise that the world hates Ameria and it's stupid foriegn policies!!! what's the deal with the kyoto treaty!!! save the planet.. just so that you know, I am British
:gundge:
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: comeon cant you feel the love!

i know most of you think those are horrible acts. but what surprises me, is that many of you do not know what your governments have done to other countries! stop watching cnn, turn the TV on some REAL NEWS channel!!
There aren't any real news stations.

I used to get my news from Reuters. Since then, I've found that National Public Radio is more complete and non-partisan (not just bi-partisan). However, you can only get the stories in audio format from their website without paying. It's kind of weird. I also like to read the Associated Press wires.

I feel that americans are self absurbed pricks with little to no idea of what its like in the real world outside of the U.S. borders. And being an american my self i feel privlaged that i have lived out side of the state and have a better but still flaued understanding of the outside world :headbang:

I'm just curious what everyone thinks of the average American these days, be you an American yourself or a foreigner. Please refrain from flaming; I want this to be civil, not a flame war.

Average American -

- lets their agendas be set by their government

- sees mostly short-term goals, benefits / ignores bigger picture, potential for long-term hardships

- impatient, unable to see alternate points of view

- belligerent, self-congratulatory

- enjoys feeling 'persecuted', hence - opportunity to whinge endlessly about themselves / their belief systems not being given center stage at all times

- prideful, vengeful, corpulent and extraordinarily cynical

- claims vociferously that none of the aforementioned qualities are true / demands links to prove that the aforementioned qualities are true / pillories anyone claiming the aforementioned qualities are true.

- loud and obnoxious, though apparently failing to realize such


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- Why do I feel this way? Simple. Exposure to Americans either directly in person, or indirectly through online forums. A notable exception to this are direct dealings with expatriate Americans, who by virtue of having left, have gained sufficient perspective to know how the rest of the planet thinks and feels.


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Hey, you asked...

Average American -

- lets their agendas be set by their government

- sees mostly short-term goals, benefits / ignores bigger picture, potential for long-term hardships

- impatient, unable to see alternate points of view

- belligerent, self-congratulatory

- enjoys feeling 'persecuted', hence - opportunity to whinge endlessly about themselves / their belief systems not being given center stage at all times

- prideful, vengeful, corpulent and extraordinarily cynical

- claims vociferously that none of the aforementioned qualities are true / demands links to prove that the aforementioned qualities are true / pillories anyone claiming the aforementioned qualities are true.

- loud and obnoxious, though apparently failing to realize such


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


- Why do I feel this way? Simple. Exposure to Americans either directly in person, or indirectly through online forums. A notable exception to this are direct dealings with expatriate Americans, who by virtue of having left, have gained sufficient perspective to know how the rest of the planet thinks and feels.

I feel pretty much the same way you do Dobbs. I don't think all Americans are this way, but enough that this does fit on the whole. The people in the Blue states are not quite as harsh... but the flag waving, church going Americans seem to think they are the only people on the planet. That just because they are the only super power at the moment, that they always will be. Apparently those who feel that have never picked up a history book.

I feel pretty much the same way you do Dobbs. I don't think all Americans are this way, but enough that this does fit on the whole. The people in the Blue states are not quite as harsh... but the flag waving, church going Americans seem to think they are the only people on the planet. That just because they are the only super power at the moment, that they always will be. Apparently those who feel that have never picked up a history book.

Well, I just answered the questions posted - I really do feel this is more or less how 'average' Americans comport themselves.

Some are worse, a number are better than the typical American I've described - but on the whole, well...y'know...

*Whew* At least it was YOU responding and not that 'My Gun Not Yours' fellow...sometimes it feels like he's lying in wait for certain NSers to post.

How's the kiddy?

Apparently those who feel that have never picked up a history book.

Hey, have you noticed how proud some of them seem to be, to be unaware of history? I find it incredibly odd

How's the kiddy?

They are fabulous thank you.

See for yourself :) (http://www.deadjournal.com/~steph9/30887.html)

as for the culture thing, no offence but an israeli can hardly talk, your country isn't even 60 years old and has a culture based on rag-tag colonial extracts.
that is exactly the pride, I had talked about.
the big majotiy of the countries in the world established only after the imparialism over, and as such exist less than hundrads years. you can't say that almost every state in the world are bunch of barbaric natives who can't recognize colture if she will be on their nose.
europe said that even on the american colture, and USA established almost when the french make their revolution.
I could also say that the israeli colture based on the jewish colture, colture that start many years before the european colture.
I could mention that the "european colture" included the medival days, the vikings and the barbaric tribes.
I could talk about the facts that the colture start on the middle east (Mesopotamia), thousands of years before europe, and they bring to the world: the alpha-bet, the paper, and the pyramids.
I could tell you that the printing press and the gunpowder come from china who had 6000 years colture.
you may be glad to know that the coffee, the choclate and most of the whites, come from south america, like the potatos, the corn, the wheat and the tomatos.
I could speak for ever on the european systems to destroy other colture, the times they steal products from the natives, and the slavery they invented.

but I think that it dosen't matter, because (just like the US citizens) you think your "colture" make you good than the others.
stop blame USA on your past mistakes.

Average American-

- Too busy with work and life to give government much thought unless its an issue that directly impacts their life.

- Trusts the government to act in their best interests.

- Understands government isn't perfect and most understand they aren't going to agree with government policy all the time.

- Hard working

- Believe their values are just as important as people in Europe

- Willing to help those in trouble

- Can be a little in-your-face at times

- Good natured people

- Willing to sacrafice a great deal for strangers if the cause is seemingly just and needed

- Competative

- Decent people like anyone else in the world

The same could be said of virtually any society. There are those who have read and to some extent "know" history, and most people in most countries don't.

In the US, the problem you're looking at is that most people who vote have no idea of current events, history, or any other relevant topic. Which is why our elections have devolved to the point they have.

Do you honestly think that any recent candidate (winning or not) for US President could have lasted 30 seconds into the usual Thursday morning questioning by the opposition in the UK? The answer is Hell No.

Americans are very nice, they run casinos and collect large grants from the us government, they have a number of tribes and they live on many reservations throughout the country. Recently, some of the tribes have suffered from obesity issues as they adopt a western style diet and lifestyle.

Americans are very nice, they run casinos and collect large grants from the us government, they have a number of tribes and they live on many reservations throughout the country. Recently, some of the tribes have suffered from obesity issues as they adopt a western style diet and lifestyle.

ROFLMAO!

Average American-

- Competative



This is the single defining trait for the common American.

All of the beligerence, stubborness, ethnocentrism, and cynicism stems from this.

Americans have been conditioned to strive for the John Wayne character, dynamic, in charge, and always right.

This leads to a natural tendency towards to lack of compromise even if it means being wrong.

This is the single defining trait for the common American.

All of the beligerence, stubborness, ethnocentrism, and cynicism stems from this.

Americans have been conditioned to strive for the John Wayne character, dynamic, in charge, and always right.

This leads to a natural tendency towards to lack of compromise even if it means being wrong.

I think, Vittos, that you're looking for the "rugged individualism" label.

It also seems to be a positive survival trait under certain circumstances. If it wasn't, the nation would not have been so successful in such an unbalanced way.

It's kind of hard to generalize about a nation so large since common personal traits vary by region. But there are a few things I've noticed about the typical American:

Right-wing political views, quick to dismiss any left-wing ideas.

Rather angry, or at least aggressive.

Willing to work to get what they want.

Interested mainly in what helps them personally, doesn't care as much about what's best for others.

Knows far, far more about American history than that of the rest of the world.

Believes they are right about most everything.

Very protective of democracy.

Very protective of democracy.

Yet can't run a proper election themselves. Go figure!

Yet can't run a proper election themselves. Go figure!
Are not even a democracy ourselves :p

Firstly: I haven't been to the states yet, so my opinion is based on..well..not much :)

Let's start positive :D From what I've heard from some friends who've been there, american students and scientists are really enthousiastic about their field of study, they really try to be good at what they're doing. Most students here are too lazy, not interested enough.

and i really, really hate the way your governments have handled international affairs, killing genuinly elected presidents of other countries (chile), removing governments (guatemala), invaded countries (too many examples: irak, afghanistan, cuba, etc), imposing economical sanctions (cuba), killing illegal inmigrants like animals (US-mexico border), etc...

I agree with that. American ppl seem to have the idea that their government can just intervene in other countries whenever that's in their interest (I'm not talking about WMD's, but about Chile for example). Usually the response is "Europeans have done the same things too in the past". Well surely 'we' have done terrible things. Just fifty years ago my country fought a bloody war against the republic of Indonesia, for which I'm deeply ashamed. But such things don't give you a carte blanche in the present world.

So here's the morale: 1) Being powerfull doesn't mean being able to do anything, justice stands in the way (and if you don't know what i mean, pleaseplease inform yourself about american foreign policy!). 2) Money doesnt buy respect, you gotta earn it. American ww2 vet's earned their respect, but the present generation still has a lot to prove. It's your duty to know what your president is doing, in your name!

A view from Nederland :)

Are not even a democracy ourselves :p

Haha, true!

I could speak for ever on the european systems to destroy other colture, the times they steal products from the natives, and the slavery they invented.

Sorry, but Europe didn't 'invent' slavery.

I think, Vittos, that you're looking for the "rugged individualism" label.

It also seems to be a positive survival trait under certain circumstances. If it wasn't, the nation would not have been so successful in such an unbalanced way.

That is just one aspect of it. It is the underlying competitive nature that causes that. It branches out to the capitalist, the televangelist, even the soccer mom, as all of them have a general oneupmanship that provides their motivation. It branches into our government, too, explaining the present neocon movement to create an unrivaled unilateral power. It explains our constant need to bring religion out into society, instead of keeping it our homes.

Haha, true!
:fluffle:

Sorry, but Europe didn't 'invent' slavery.
europe use slaves already in the rome's empire and develope the system who give the ability to control on large empires all over the world.
if I heard european blame USA for the slavery, I can blame them for that, too.
the fact that you can ignore the rest of my post is good. maybe you think on that, next time you blame USA.

And Rome almost certainly was not the first civilization to use slaves, even.

And Rome almost certainly was not the first civilization to use slaves, even.

Yeah - not even close. Slavery has existed since God only knows when. Probably back when we were still water-monkeys.

maybe they didn't inveted slavery, which case I want you tell me one empire who did that before.
but one thing is sure. rome develope the slavery as lowest class, unlike other who treat the slaves as almost part of the family.
still, you missed the whole point. I wrote hundards of words in my post. you have problem only with 3 of the words (Europe invented slavery). maybe I wrong and maybe not, but if all the other parts of the posts are fine with you, that enough to clear my point: don't blame USA on your past crimes. (mostly the part you say US citizens don't know anything about the world, while you think you're the only ones who had great colture)

Sorry, but Europe didn't 'invent' slavery.

That is correct. As far back as history has been recorded there has been slavery in some form or another. The difference is most nations did away with it long before some others. And of course slavery still goes on today in some parts of the world.

colture

You're driving me nuts with that..lol the proper spelling is "culture" ;)

What does slavery have to do with this question?

You're driving me nuts with that..lol the proper spelling is "culture" ;)
if you see mistake that really bother you, tell me.
I can't fix things that I don't know they are wrong.
by the way, I thank you for saying that in mature way, unlike some others.

the state of communist eastern bloc states that america is the enemy, coventing wealth away from the goveernment, making their country misguided.. soon they will see the error of their capitolist ways, we then will guide then to communsim, to golry!

um, i know this is a lost battle, but please keep in mind that Americans are the ones who live in the continent AMERICA.

i live in mexico. mexico is in america. therefore, i am an american.

try, just try, to call "America" (when refering to the country) USA, and "Americans" (when refering to the people that live in de USA) US citizens, or something like that

i know, almost the whole friggin world says "America" for USA and "Americans" for US citizens. but we live in "politicaly correct times", and i think is politicaly incorrect to use those terms

whew, i know, i sound like a whining baby, but hey, that's my own mini war

Not an American of any kind... more an Englishman residing in the States... but I agree, which is why I TRY to type US or USA, rather than America.

It's kind of like the way the US "World Series" is a platform for US teams... certain words just get 'owned'.

In Soviet Russia, road forks you!!

What does slavery have to do with this question?
I just say that europe blame USA for her past mistakes.
in little part of my post I said that I think europe invented the slavery. I guess I wrong, because many come to tell me that that europe don't invented the slavery.
as to my claims about other europe's mistakes, and the fact that rome develope the slavery, they choose not response.
I think that all the story.

As a US citizen, I don't see my average co-citizen in a very good light. In general, I see American's as overpaid, entitlement hungry, greedy, instant gratification devoted, selfish, immoral and lacking the will to take personal responsibility for there actions.

That isn't to say that all Americans fit that description, but compared to 50 or 100 years ago, the difference is night and day. Night being the more recent history. Yes, Americans give more to charity than anyone else, but we pretty much have more than anyone else, and I think that giving is also used as an excuse to not directly help those in need. We asuage our guilty consciences with the fact that we pay taxes for Social Security, Supplimental Security Income, Medicaid and Medicare so we can go on ignoring our responsibility to our parents, family, friends and community and live in our own little headonistic worlds. And, yes, I am indicting myself to some degree in that tirad as well.

That isn't to say that all Americans fit that description, but compared to 50 or 100 years ago, the difference is night and day. Night being the more recent history.
I don't know about the other parts of your post, but that look to me as too much nostalgia. it can't be that eveybody said: today sucks, tomarow is worse.
I think that most of the bad things in the past just disappear with the time.

the state of communist eastern bloc states that america is the enemy, coventing wealth away from the goveernment, making their country misguided.. soon they will see the error of their capitolist ways, we then will guide then to communsim, to golry!
:fluffle:

I don't know about the other parts of your post, but that look to me as too much nostalgia. it can't be that eveybody said: today sucks, tomarow is worse.
I think that most of the bad things in the past just disappear with the time.

There have been many improvements in social freedoms in the past 100 years. The problem is that they have been abused to the degradation of society. Teen pregnancy is up, crime is up, violent crime is up, general care for anyone other than self is way down. Yes, we have so many resources that it is covered pretty well for the time being, but I doubt this country would survive another "great depression" without taring itself apart.

There have been many improvements in social freedoms in the past 100 years. The problem is that they have been abused to the degradation of society. Teen pregnancy is up, crime is up, violent crime is up, general care for anyone other than self is way down. Yes, we have so many resources that it is covered pretty well for the time being, but I doubt this country would survive another "great depression" without taring itself apart.

Prove it.

I very much doubt that teen pregnancy is up... I think you invented that idea. When you consider that (those who DID marry, which was far from all people) people married much younger a hundred years ago... it seems likely that teen pregnancy is actually DOWN now.

But, then again, I doubt there are any statistics either way.

Similarly, 'crime', 'violent crime'... 'not caring'... you make many allusions, but you can't really back any of them up.

I mean... even if you found arrest statistics for 1899... would that mean there was more (or less) crime now? Or just more (or less) ARRESTS for the same amount of crime?

Why do some people ALWAYS pine for a yesterday that never happened?

i think most US CITIZENS consider themselves good people, and i share that thought... but sometimes, damn, you really are annoying!!

many of you do not even stop to think that there is a big, big world outside the USA, and tend to think that any place outside your country is a barbaric place, with some exceptions like europe and japan... i mean, i would think that you would know at least the location of most countries, and the kind of cultures around the world, but many of you don't! what good is the internet if it is only used to play games?

and i really, really hate the way your governments have handled international affairs, killing genuinly elected presidents of other countries (chile), removing governments (guatemala), invaded countries (too many examples: irak, afghanistan, cuba, etc), imposing economical sanctions (cuba), killing illegal inmigrants like animals (US-mexico border), etc...

i know most of you think those are horrible acts. but what surprises me, is that many of you do not know what your governments have done to other countries! stop watching cnn, turn the TV on some REAL NEWS channel!!

but to be fair, i am a strong admirer of the USA, and that is precisely why i am sometimes so disappointed about you. you can achieve so many things, and hell, you've created world of warcraft, so i think i can forgive you...
you know, you're right, we could stand to mind our own beeswax once in a while, couldn't we?

North-eastern (NY, Maine, etc.) and West-coast Americans (California) are cool. Non-redneck people from Texas, NM, etc. are cool. Anyone in the bible belt scares me. I hate the government. I'm Canadian.

undefinedundefined

I do not hate Americans, but I have a problem with their government. That is all there is to say :D

That is just one aspect of it. It is the underlying competitive nature that causes that. It branches out to the capitalist, the televangelist, even the soccer mom, as all of them have a general oneupmanship that provides their motivation. It branches into our government, too, explaining the present neocon movement to create an unrivaled unilateral power. It explains our constant need to bring religion out into society, instead of keeping it our homes.

Interesting. And explains my motivation for doing things military...

They have too little history and therefor culture

i know! other countries can tell you all sorts of interesting things about their history or culture, but not us! "oh yeah, we just came over here on boats and took over and had a bunch of wars and stuff."

I do not hate Americans, but I have a problem with their government. That is all there is to say. :cool:

Prove it.

I very much doubt that teen pregnancy is up... I think you invented that idea. When you consider that (those who DID marry, which was far from all people) people married much younger a hundred years ago... it seems likely that teen pregnancy is actually DOWN now.

But, then again, I doubt there are any statistics either way.

Similarly, 'crime', 'violent crime'... 'not caring'... you make many allusions, but you can't really back any of them up.

I mean... even if you found arrest statistics for 1899... would that mean there was more (or less) crime now? Or just more (or less) ARRESTS for the same amount of crime?

Why do some people ALWAYS pine for a yesterday that never happened?
agree, but I had some things to add.
first, stats could be wrong, because many conditions could change.
also, I think I had simple answer to the nostalgia.
when the present is bad and people had no hope, they had to believe that somewhere in the past, the lifes was better.
that why they ignore the past bad things, and create new history.

Prove it.

I very much doubt that teen pregnancy is up... I think you invented that idea. When you consider that (those who DID marry, which was far from all people) people married much younger a hundred years ago... it seems likely that teen pregnancy is actually DOWN now.

But, then again, I doubt there are any statistics either way.

Similarly, 'crime', 'violent crime'... 'not caring'... you make many allusions, but you can't really back any of them up.

I mean... even if you found arrest statistics for 1899... would that mean there was more (or less) crime now? Or just more (or less) ARRESTS for the same amount of crime?

Why do some people ALWAYS pine for a yesterday that never happened?

And why do some chose to turn a blind eye as society progressively degenerates?

I'll grant your first point however. You are probably right about teen pregnancy given the earlier age of marriage on average. What I should have said, and you are correct about there not being statistical evidence either way, is that unwed/single parenthood was significantly lower then than it is now. My source of information is anecdotal on the basis of non-scientific polling of those who are 75 to 100 with whom I randomly or intentionally(more random than intentional) come in contact, sample size of 150 to 200 primarily caucasion Americans. The survey questions and answers generally consist of the following: What are the biggest changes you've seen in your lifetime? Answers: Technology #1, Social decay(includes: crime, lack of spirituality, hypersexuality, greed, selfishness and lack of care for others, deteriorating family values, and media sensationalization of the previous) #2, increase in wealth #3.
What are the biggest problems you see in this country today? Answers: Social decay #1, war#2, economy#3.

Is this conclusive proof, no. Is it evidence to support my hypothesis, yes.

And why do some chose to turn a blind eye as society progressively degenerates?

I'll grant your first point however. You are probably right about teen pregnancy given the earlier age of marriage on average. What I should have said, and you are correct about there not being statistical evidence either way, is that unwed/single parenthood was significantly lower then than it is now. My source of information is anecdotal on the basis of non-scientific polling of those who are 75 to 100 with whom I randomly or intentionally(more random than intentional) come in contact, sample size of 150 to 200 primarily caucasion Americans. The survey questions and answers generally consist of the following: What are the biggest changes you've seen in your lifetime? Answers: Technology #1, Social decay(includes: crime, lack of spirituality, hypersexuality, greed, selfishness and lack of care for others, deteriorating family values, and media sensationalization of the previous) #2, increase in wealth #3.
What are the biggest problems you see in this country today? Answers: Social decay #1, war#2, economy#3.

Is this conclusive proof, no. Is it evidence to support my hypothesis, yes.


So you took a poll of opinions not of facts ... thanks for telling us

So you took a poll of opinions not of facts ... thanks for telling us

Closest thing we have to a credible source of information from that time period we have. I'm not saying that their exactly right, but it certainly is sufficient evidence to be suspicious that it might well have some basis in reality.

Closest thing we have to a credible source of information from that time period we have. I'm not saying that their exactly right, but it certainly is sufficient evidence to be suspicious that it might well have some basis in reality.
Not saying it dosent but because 200 people (whatever the sample size is) believe something is true ... and a not compleatly random servey

Lets just say I wouldent put my money on it (hurts my head predicting C level)

Closest thing we have to a credible source of information from that time period we have. I'm not saying that their exactly right, but it certainly is sufficient evidence to be suspicious that it might well have some basis in reality.

Either that or (and much more likely, to my thinking) as the eminent Green Israel mentioned... people have a skewed perspective of how life used to be, because they are disenchanted with the present, and long for something better...

And, of course, nostalgia enables you to look at a hard time, and imagine it as a good time.

agree, but I had some things to add.
first, stats could be wrong, because many conditions could change.
also, I think I had simple answer to the nostalgia.
when the present is bad and people had no hope, they had to believe that somewhere in the past, the lifes was better.
that why they ignore the past bad things, and create new history.

Excellent post.

Not saying it dosent but because 200 people (whatever the sample size is) believe something is true ... and a not compleatly random servey

Lets just say I wouldent put my money on it (hurts my head predicting C level)


yes, its pretty high. Care to fund a more comprehensive study?

Well lets see....

I think every country has its share of creeps, right? Also every country probably has some practices that arent that groovy? I have yet to hear about a country that suits everyone else in the world. If someone finds one, let me know so I can start packing my stuff.

Well lets see....

I think every country has its share of creeps, right? Also every country probably has some practices that arent that groovy? I have yet to hear about a country that suits everyone else in the world. If someone finds one, let me know so I can start packing my stuff.

Ah, you must have missed that thread...

To be honest, I can't even remember what we were debating, originally, but we ended up hijacking the thread to talk about discovering tropical islands, where we were going to build secret bases in volcanoes, and live a quiet life as international evil geniuses...

Your tickets should arrive by the weekend. :)

Ah, you must have missed that thread...

To be honest, I can't even remember what we were debating, originally, but we ended up hijacking the thread to talk about discovering tropical islands, where we were going to build secret bases in volcanoes, and live a quiet life as international evil geniuses...

Your tickets should arrive by the weekend. :)

Oh great then! *packs suntan oil, sunglasses, volleyball and hammock*

Grave....you and I should learn how to surf when we get there. Either that or learn how to make cool stuff out of coconuts. or we could do both!

yes, its pretty high. Care to fund a more comprehensive study?
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3002498.html

Not as long running but intresting stuff none the less

Green Israel takes issue with me for only addressing his/her incorrect claim that Europe invented slavery, to the exclusion of all else posted in his original message, which is as follows:

that is exactly the pride, I had talked about.
the big majotiy of the countries in the world established only after the imparialism over, and as such exist less than hundrads years. you can't say that almost every state in the world are bunch of barbaric natives who can't recognize colture if she will be on their nose.
europe said that even on the american colture, and USA established almost when the french make their revolution.
I could also say that the israeli colture based on the jewish colture, colture that start many years before the european colture.
I could mention that the "european colture" included the medival days, the vikings and the barbaric tribes.
I could talk about the facts that the colture start on the middle east (Mesopotamia), thousands of years before europe, and they bring to the world: the alpha-bet, the paper, and the pyramids.
I could tell you that the printing press and the gunpowder come from china who had 6000 years colture.
you may be glad to know that the coffee, the choclate and most of the whites, come from south america, like the potatos, the corn, the wheat and the tomatos.
I could speak for ever on the european systems to destroy other colture, the times they steal products from the natives, and the slavery they invented.

but I think that it dosen't matter, because (just like the US citizens) you think your "colture" make you good than the others.
stop blame USA on your past mistakes.

There. That's the entirety of the post I responded to, Green Israel. You'll recall that this post of yours was in response to this:

they actually refuse to speak english to english-speakers, italians/germans/french/etc. will happily talk to each other in english as its mostly their shared language.
as for the culture thing, no offence but an israeli can hardly talk, your country isn't even 60 years old and has a culture based on rag-tag colonial extracts.
from what i know about sociology (which i admit isn't a lot) american culture seems entirely self-destructive, it's too individualistic (with a pathological fear of the common good) and inherently violent (just look at gun crime stats). these may just be cultural quirks but i would much rather prefer another nation in charge of my world please.

Now, bear in mind that you chose to include only the middle paragraph as a quote in your posted response. I suppose you chose to focus your response on this particular part because it addresses something which is familiar to you, and that's fine and well. My reason for focusing on the erroneous statement you made regarding slavery is mor or less the same: it was an obvious error that I could move quickly to dispute.

What problem with that? You were hoping for a point-by-point discussion?

*sigh*

Okay, then...but remember, this whole post of yours was in response to someone else's message, I'll just have to try muddling through as best I can. By the way, this is not easy given your linguistic impediments. Here goes:

that is exactly the pride, I had talked about.
the big majotiy of the countries in the world established only after the imparialism over, and as such exist less than hundrads years. you can't say that almost every state in the world are bunch of barbaric natives who can't recognize colture if she will be on their nose.

What?

europe said that even on the american colture, and USA established almost when the french make their revolution.
I could also say that the israeli colture based on the jewish colture, colture that start many years before the european colture.
I could mention that the "european colture" included the medival days, the vikings and the barbaric tribes.

That's odd, Jews formed a vital part of european culture prior to, during and after the medeival period. Yes, vikings were European. What of that? And who are these 'barbaric' tribes you refer to? The tribes of Barbary were North African (Morocco, Algeria, etc.), not European.

What is your point?

I could talk about the facts that the colture start on the middle east (Mesopotamia), thousands of years before europe, and they bring to the world: the alpha-bet, the paper, and the pyramids.

Please do. Re: the pyramids, there are several differing points of view:

a) they were built by Egyptians.
b) they were built by aliens.
c) they were built by slaves and prisoners of war.

I tend to believe a) though they may well have included some of c) as well. B) is just wishful thinking. But this dovetails nicely with your later assertion that slavery was European. Egypt had slaves. They weren't Europeans.

Onward:

I could tell you that the printing press and the gunpowder come from china who had 6000 years colture.

Much to Mr. Gutenburg's surprise...did Marco Polo drag a printing press on his back all the way along the Silk Road? Nope. Just printed money, which got burned on his return.

you may be glad to know that the coffee, the choclate and most of the whites, come from south america, like the potatos, the corn, the wheat and the tomatos.

Wheat was cultivated in areas like Mesopotamia, Africa and Europe millennia before the discovery of the Americas. Coffee is from East Africa. Raw Cocoa is from South America, but chocolate is a European recipe. Potatoes, tomatoes and corn are indeed from the Americas. And they're all yummy. I don't know what you were driving at with the 'most of the whites' comment, I'm assuming you're talking about some form of vegetable? I think this is a prime example of trying to interpret your linguistic impediments - sometimes tricky.

but I think that it dosen't matter, because (just like the US citizens) you think your "colture" make you good than the others.
stop blame USA on your past mistakes.

I've never blamed the USA on my past mistakes, or the past mistakes of my country. I instead choose to blame the USA for the CURRENT mistakes THEY'RE making in the world today.

And there you go, Green Israel. Proof positive that I read your entire post. Don't you feel special now?

Oh great then! *packs suntan oil, sunglasses, volleyball and hammock*

Grave....you and I should learn how to surf when we get there. Either that or learn how to make cool stuff out of coconuts. or we could do both!

Hmm, cool stuff made out of coconuts... the possibilites are endless... and somewhat enticing. :)

Not too sure about surfing, it's hard to maintain a really convincing English 'reserve' when you are heading upside-down and back-to-front into the foam.

Hmm, cool stuff made out of coconuts... the possibilites are endless... and somewhat enticing. :)

Not too sure about surfing, it's hard to maintain a really convincing English 'reserve' when you are heading upside-down and back-to-front into the foam.
Pretend you are australian ... most idiots cant tell anyways

Hmm, cool stuff made out of coconuts... the possibilites are endless... and somewhat enticing. :)

Not too sure about surfing, it's hard to maintain a really convincing English 'reserve' when you are heading upside-down and back-to-front into the foam.

yeah-I'd look pretty silly "hanging ten" too. I'm sure youve noticed the lack of surf boards here in GA.-LOL.

But we have our share of 4x4 trucks ay? :rolleyes:

coconut crafts it is!

yeah-I'd look pretty silly "hanging ten" too. I'm sure youve noticed the lack of surf boards here in GA.-LOL.

But we have our share of 4x4 trucks ay? :rolleyes:

coconut crafts it is!
Ohhh I got my truck I can join you

Muddin rocks! (this comin from a minnesotan blue state person)

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3002498.html

Not as long running but intresting stuff none the less

Nice citation. I used the stats from that study in a debate class about a year after it was published. I was assigned to argue in favor of contraception while my openant was to argue in favor of abstinance. I got him to concede that, per data, there was at least a minor decrease in rates over the 10 years prior to that study and that training on contaception was one of the likely reasons why. Of course I had to concede that abstinance is 100% effective and that emphasising this point was in societies best interest, just not to the exclusion of contraception which is better than nothing for those who will always chose something other than abstinence.

In any case, I wish we had a more longitudinal study that reached back into the early 1900s. In its absense, I'm inclined to believe those who were eyewitess over a non-witness's speculation. Particularly, when that speculation may have ulterior motives.

Nice citation. I used the stats from that study in a debate class about a year after it was published. I was assigned to argue in favor of contraception while my openant was to argue in favor of abstinance. I got him to concede that, per data, there was at least a minor decrease in rates over the 10 years prior to that study and that training on contaception was one of the likely reasons why. Of course I had to concede that abstinance is 100% effective and that emphasising this point was in societies best interest, just not to the exclusion of contraception which is better than nothing for those who will always chose something other than abstinence.

In any case, I wish we had a more longitudinal study that reached back into the early 1900s. In its absense, I'm inclined to believe those who were eyewitess over a non-witness's speculation. Particularly, when that speculation may have ulterior motives.
Oh I agree ... just dont think your study was it

Nice citation. I used the stats from that study in a debate class about a year after it was published. I was assigned to argue in favor of contraception while my openant was to argue in favor of abstinance. I got him to concede that, per data, there was at least a minor decrease in rates over the 10 years prior to that study and that training on contaception was one of the likely reasons why. Of course I had to concede that abstinance is 100% effective and that emphasising this point was in societies best interest, just not to the exclusion of contraception which is better than nothing for those who will always chose something other than abstinence.

In any case, I wish we had a more longitudinal study that reached back into the early 1900s. In its absense, I'm inclined to believe those who were eyewitess over a non-witness's speculation. Particularly, when that speculation may have ulterior motives.

Exactly - if the ONLY 'evidence' to support a claim is in story form, and, if the story is usually used by the storyteller as a means of re-inforcing certain opinions (the "It-was-better-in-my-day" scenario), then the 'evidence' isn't really ALL that reliable.

Oh - and abstinence isn't 100% effective... since there are other ways bodily fluids can be 'leaked' and 'uptaken', that might have nothing to do with sexual congress.... and, of course, abstinence only works for as long as you use it. So - the Pill is more reliable, because it still offers some protection, even if you 'miss a day'.

Oh I agree ... just dont think your study was it

Clearly my "study" isn't much in the way of methodology. I wouldn't go so far to claim it has scientific reliability or even to call it a study. It is, however face valid at the least. Sample size is insufficient for any kind of signficiant test/retest measures, particularly given that a good portion of the sample is now deceased or mentally incapacitated. The thing is, I see it as more valid than any other source of information regarding social issues in that time span. Also, when added to the media information available from that time that I have paroused, though not with scientific thoroughness granted, it again has face validity.

yeah-I'd look pretty silly "hanging ten" too. I'm sure youve noticed the lack of surf boards here in GA.-LOL.

But we have our share of 4x4 trucks ay? :rolleyes:

coconut crafts it is!

Hmmm - not sure I follow you... you think that the average guy DOESN'T want to see a cute blonde upside-down? ;)

Like you say... surf-boards do seem to be something of a rarity in this geography.

Of course, the GOOD thing about 4x4's is, most of them are high enough that tall people can get in without having to do that 'almost-touching-your-toes' thing!

I'm with you... coconut crafts and coconut cocktails looks like the way to go.

Oh - and abstinence isn't 100% effective... since there are other ways bodily fluids can be 'leaked' and 'uptaken', that might have nothing to do with sexual congress.... and, of course, abstinence only works for as long as you use it. So - the Pill is more reliable, because it still offers some protection, even if you 'miss a day'.

I think that is approximately what I said, except your definition of abstinence and mine are different.

Exactly - if the ONLY 'evidence' to support a claim is in story form, and, if the story is usually used by the storyteller as a means of re-inforcing certain opinions (the "It-was-better-in-my-day" scenario), then the 'evidence' isn't really ALL that reliable.

Oh - and abstinence isn't 100% effective... since there are other ways bodily fluids can be 'leaked' and 'uptaken', that might have nothing to do with sexual congress.... and, of course, abstinence only works for as long as you use it. So - the Pill is more reliable, because it still offers some protection, even if you 'miss a day'.
Hell go depo ... got a month

Green Israel takes issue with me for only addressing his/her incorrect claim that Europe invented slavery, to the exclusion of all else posted in his original message, which is as follows:



There. That's the entirety of the post I responded to, Green Israel. You'll recall that this post of yours was in response to this:



Now, bear in mind that you chose to include only the middle paragraph as a quote in your posted response. I suppose you chose to focus your response on this particular part because it addresses something which is familiar to you, and that's fine and well. My reason for focusing on the erroneous statement you made regarding slavery is mor or less the same: it was an obvious error that I could move quickly to dispute.

What problem with that? You were hoping for a point-by-point discussion?

*sigh*

Okay, then...but remember, this whole post of yours was in response to someone else's message, I'll just have to try muddling through as best I can. By the way, this is not easy given your linguistic impediments. Here goes:



What?



That's odd, Jews formed a vital part of european culture prior to, during and after the medeival period. Yes, vikings were European. What of that? And who are these 'barbaric' tribes you refer to? The tribes of Barbary were North African (Morocco, Algeria, etc.), not European.

What is your point?



Please do. Re: the pyramids, there are several differing points of view:

a) they were built by Egyptians.
b) they were built by aliens.
c) they were built by slaves and prisoners of war.

I tend to believe a) though they may well have included some of c) as well. B) is just wishful thinking. But this dovetails nicely with your later assertion that slavery was European. Egypt had slaves. They weren't Europeans.

Onward:



Much to Mr. Gutenburg's surprise...did Marco Polo drag a printing press on his back all the way along the Silk Road? Nope. Just printed money, which got burned on his return.



Wheat was cultivated in areas like Mesopotamia, Africa and Europe millennia before the discovery of the Americas. Coffee is from East Africa. Raw Cocoa is from South America, but chocolate is a European recipe. Potatoes, tomatoes and corn are indeed from the Americas. And they're all yummy. I don't know what you were driving at with the 'most of the whites' comment, I'm assuming you're talking about some form of vegetable? I think this is a prime example of trying to interpret your linguistic impediments - sometimes tricky.



I've never blamed the USA on my past mistakes, or the past mistakes of my country. I instead choose to blame the USA for the CURRENT mistakes THEY'RE making in the world today.

And there you go, Green Israel. Proof positive that I read your entire post. Don't you feel special now?
OK, I make some mistakes and bad speeling, but it dosen't matter anymore.
the thread lost every connection with his porpuse.
I think you could blame me.

Exactly - if the ONLY 'evidence' to support a claim is in story form, and, if the story is usually used by the storyteller as a means of re-inforcing certain opinions (the "It-was-better-in-my-day" scenario), then the 'evidence' isn't really ALL that reliable.


Would you care to share some evidence that is "more" reliable pertaining to the timeframe in question? I'd be happy to read it as I have some questions myself about some of the answers I've been given.

Would you care to share some evidence that is "more" reliable pertaining to the timeframe in question? I'd be happy to read it as I have some questions myself about some of the answers I've been given.
Personaly I rather not assume when evidence is shaky but I feel no need to prove any point :)

I think that is approximately what I said, except your definition of abstinence and mine are different.

How? You have a definition of 'abstinence' (in terms of human sexuality) that differs from my definition of "abstaining from sexual activities"?

They seem to have low self-esteem because I see this kind of thread every other week.

Mind you, Canadians are not better in this regard...

They seem to have low self-esteem because I see this kind of thread every other week.

Mind you, Canadians are not better in this regard...

I dont think these threads are usually started by an American.

Would you care to share some evidence that is "more" reliable pertaining to the timeframe in question? I'd be happy to read it as I have some questions myself about some of the answers I've been given.

Which timeframe? We've transitioned over the entire scope of a century, in the last page or so, and there has been almost no evidence to support ANY of the claims you made (a few pages back) - EXCEPT over a fairly small, and very recent time period...

How many children were born in the US in the year 1929? Does ANYONE know? Even hospital records (if they still existed) would only be able to give an APPROXIMATE figure.

And that is just numbers of births... try finding evidence that ACTUALLY supports the idea of fewer illegitimate and/or teen-pregnancy babies any time before the last few decades...

As a proud American, I must first say that as a nation we do the best we can. Yes, we are money hungry, but we are a capitalist society. And what's wrong with that? Free Enterprise is what has made us probably THE most dominant country in such a short time. It is for these reasons that millions of foreign born people have sought so hard to come here.

Despite all our efforts though, we get it wrong sometimes. People get pissed because we rush into situations and maybe don't take the time to think it through and weigh all the options. The other side to that is something called Analysis paralysis. Where you take so much time to do things that they never get done.

The really ironic thing to me, and many other american, is how ungrateful most of the rest of the world is too. When there is a disaster anywhere in the world, be it friend or 'foe' we send aid. Natural or man-made disasters. We are there. Americans take time from their lives to help others. But people don't want to talk about that. Especially the Liberal American and brittish media.

The single thing that continually crosses my mind is that when the world is in need, America gives whatever it can to help, but when America is in need. No other country really helps us. When Terrorists bombed the World trade centers, hundreds of works spent weeks sorting through the rubble searching for bodies. Working themselves to exhaustion, until they could barely stand. No one came to our aid.

So before you critisize my beloved country, think about what we may have done for yours.

I think it's too hard to paint all Americans (or everyone from any given nationality) with the same brush. There are nice people and there are assholes in all countries.

I think it's too hard to paint all Americans (or everyone from any given nationality) with the same brush. There are nice people and there are assholes in all countries.


Thank you.

Thank you.
No thank you :fluffle:

No thank you :fluffle:


LOL

:fluffle:

LOL

:fluffle:
Lol Ive fluffled like 20 people today

My lips are geting sore

Lol Ive fluffled like 20 people today

My lips are geting sore

I have only been involved in two :fluffle: incidents, today... but I think that the quality more than makes up for the quantity!

Lol Ive fluffled like 20 people today

My lips are geting sore
You whore :fluffle:

You whore :fluffle:
more slut less whore :p

I have only been involved in two :fluffle: incidents, today... but I think that the quality more than makes up for the quantity!


awwww..... :)

I think he's taLking bout you and I, U.T.

awwww..... :)

I think he's taLking bout you and I, U.T.

How could you tell... just because I said "quality" over "quantity"?

;)

awwww..... :)

I think he's taLking bout you and I, U.T.
I think so too :fluffle: I hope he was saying that I returned quality for quality (that or maybe quantity of toung)

more slut less whore :p
You don't get paid?

You should really get yourself a pimp.

I'm not sure if any other americans have posted on this thread yet (I will go back and read through it to find out though), but I have one thought on our country. The people who seem to care the most, are the people who cannot make a difference. I am a minor, under the age of 18, and very opinionated in politics. The biggest problem with America is that it refuses repeatedly to listen to those who are underage but are often wiser than they are. Take, for example, George W. Bush... it's been stated many many times that he is a complete moron. We are aware of that, and I'd esitmate the majority of people want to throw him out of power, or in my case, to try and set him on the right track to possibly help him redeem himself or even with time become a decent president. My parents often tell me that I am disrespectful of our "leader" because of my views and how vocal I am of them but it is what I believe in. This is a rather long winded speech from a high school student in New Jersey, but what I want to say to my country as well as others is that those of us that want to and try very hard to make a difference in the way we are viewed from the outside are often silenced because we are young or unprofessional. When you look at America from the outside, think of those people who are trying, almost in vain to make the country a little better from the inside.

You don't get paid?

You should really get yourself a pimp.
I did but he just kept taking advantage of me

What kind of boy did he think I am!

what I want to say to my country as well as others is that those of us that want to and try very hard to make a difference in the way we are viewed from the outside are often silenced because we are young or unprofessional. When you look at America from the outside, think of those people who are trying, almost in vain to make the country a little better from the inside.

When someone speaks plainly, and from the heart, they will always have my ear. You have mine.

How could you tell... just because I said "quality" over "quantity"?

;)

I live by those words. I'd much rather have 2 or 3 moist, deliciouswarm, gooey chocolate chip cookies than 2 dozen dry, hard, crumbly tasteless ones.

Quality is everything!

OK I'm going to finish up some Christmas shopping.......pray that I'm not stampeded by the other shoppers.

When someone speaks plainly, and from the heart, they will always have my ear. You have mine.

thank you, its good to know that there are people who listen. :)

I'm not sure if any other americans have posted on this thread yet (I will go back and read through it to find out though), but I have one thought on our country. The people who seem to care the most, are the people who cannot make a difference. I am a minor, under the age of 18, and very opinionated in politics. The biggest problem with America is that it refuses repeatedly to listen to those who are underage but are often wiser than they are. Take, for example, George W. Bush... it's been stated many many times that he is a complete moron. We are aware of that, and I'd esitmate the majority of people want to throw him out of power, or in my case, to try and set him on the right track to possibly help him redeem himself or even with time become a decent president. My parents often tell me that I am disrespectful of our "leader" because of my views and how vocal I am of them but it is what I believe in. This is a rather long winded speech from a high school student in New Jersey, but what I want to say to my country as well as others is that those of us that want to and try very hard to make a difference in the way we are viewed from the outside are often silenced because we are young or unprofessional. When you look at America from the outside, think of those people who are trying, almost in vain to make the country a little better from the inside.

Good post for a 'high school student' from New Jersey...

That, my friend, is the problem the US has at the moment... sure, you have good people, but you have crappy Public Relations (thanks to a certain politician, who shall remain unnamed).

I live by those words. I'd much rather have 2 or 3 moist, deliciouswarm, gooey chocolate chip cookies than 2 dozen dry, hard, crumbly tasteless ones.

Quality is everything!

OK I'm going to finish up some Christmas shopping.......pray that I'm not stampeded by the other shoppers.

Stop, I'm drooling...

(The cookies sound good, too) ;)

Go! Shop! Don't get killed... we would be deprived of much-needed Peechiness. :(

If nothing else positive can be said about him, he is unwaivering. Which I respect. Too many American politicians go with the flow, not of the majority, but they listen to the minorities. And I don't mean racial minorities. I mean political minorities and special interest group, and lobbyists. It holds to the old addige that 'The skeaky wheel gets the grease.'

I live by those words. I'd much rather have 2 or 3 moist, deliciouswarm, gooey chocolate chip cookies than 2 dozen dry, hard, crumbly tasteless ones.

Quality is everything!

OK I'm going to finish up some Christmas shopping.......pray that I'm not stampeded by the other shoppers.
hehehe ok Ill pray ... lot less :fluffle: going on without you

Good post for a 'high school student' from New Jersey...

That, my friend, is the problem the US has at the moment... sure, you have good people, but you have crappy Public Relations (thanks to a certain politician, who shall remain unnamed).

True. I've talked to many international students on my campus, and the general feeling seems to be that the average American is nice, but our politicians make us look like total assholes.

True. I've talked to many international students on my campus, and the general feeling seems to be that the average American is nice, but our politicians make us look like total assholes.

As a 'limey' living among the 'yanks', I can testify to the fact that, yes - the English, for example, tend to like individual Americans.

Bush, and his bible-bashing, hate-spreading ilk (just look at the way he ran a 'presidential campaign', for god's sake) are the problem - because he has become the smiling face of oppression - whether he is stealing rights away at home, or perpetuating his 'vision' of the Pax Americana.

As a 'limey' living among the 'yanks', I can testify to the fact that, yes - the English, for example, tend to like individual Americans.

Bush, and his bible-bashing, hate-spreading ilk (just look at the way he ran a 'presidential campaign', for god's sake) are the problem - because he has become the smiling face of oppression - whether he is stealing rights away at home, or perpetuating his 'vision' of the Pax Americana.

Hate-spreadking ilk?? :rolleyes: Yes, the Democratic side was so full of peace and love, there was no hate coming from them what-so-ever....! :rolleyes:

I preface this by saying these are personal opinions based upon personal experiences. In no way am I trying to project my opinions on others, nor have I made any scientific analyses. I am also from the red state, Bible-thumping heartland of the USA.

From what I have seen and from the people I talk to on a daily basis, and from the stories I see on the news or read in the papers, Americans are either blind to the facts or too busy to care.

Those that do pay attention and are intelligent enough to base their opinions on facts are either the evil-genius type or the "OMFG! I have three jobs" type. The first is trying to rule the world, the second doesn't have time to stop them.

Our local news media tends to focus on nut-jobs, trajedies and meaningless filler. Our national news is so biased and full of opinionated expert commentary that it's hard to define what is fact or fiction. International news is CNN - or 2 pages in the back of our local newspapers. The rest of our information comes from talk shows. Remember, Jerry Springer, Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern have larger audiences than most countries have citizens.

In the USA, it's getting hard to find a good job, it's hard to keep a good job (many tend to go overseas or become automated), it's expensive here and once you get financially knocked down (especially in a big city) it takes forever to get back up, if you can. On the other hand, I know a lot of people that don't comprehend hard work, yet they complain about immigrants taking their jobs.

We love to sue people because most of us can't stand to be wrong, or can't afford to be sued by admitting fault. Our insurance industry works this way, our legal system works this way, and the law is a multi-billion dollar industry. The content of most business contracts in the USA is about 20% of "what we will do for you" and 80% of "how we can/cannot sue each other."

Our most popular form of entertainment is the TV show. Currently, the most popular shows are "reality" shows where the winning contestant is the one that can screw everybody else the best. Also among the most popular shows are the "I had a baby with my mother-in-law" talk shows, cribs of the rich and obnoxious, etc.

Regardless of the forgotten past, over the last 40 years there are a few statistically proven facts about the USA:
- our kids aren't as well educated as they used to be
- fewer kids go to college and even fewer pursue technical degrees
- more people descend into poverty every year
- there are more rich people than ever before
- the rich people are more rich than ever before
- we are more in debt, personally and as a nation, than ever before
- we've lost our technical dominance of the world (except for military and biotech)

With spending on education and other social programs being slashed into obsolescence by the current administration, and the utter mismanagement and incompetency of previous administrations, I don't see these trends being reversed by any government efforts. Our political leaders are padding their pockets while doing a really crappy job of running the country. We in the USA do not have a monopoly on corrupt politicians though, so don't throw too many turds at us.

Our foreign policy is and has forever been driven by our "national interests." At this point in time, and in our past, our "national interests" consist of security and oil. One doesn't have to dig too deep to find US backing of an oppressive regime in an oil rich country (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Nigeria to name a few). To say only the French and Russians profit from such regimes (which they do) is to turn a blind eye to our methods of gathering wealth.

Some would say I should find another country to live in if I don't like it here. I say that I can't think of one that would be any better, and plenty are worse. At least in this country we have the means to change things (until those means are taken away). And we still have plenty of gun-toting nut-jobs ready to shoot those fed bastards in the ass as soon as they cross the line into fascism.

That's enough of a rant. Let the flaming begin...

Hate-spreadking ilk?? :rolleyes: Yes, the Democratic side was so full of peace and love, there was no hate coming from them what-so-ever....! :rolleyes:

There is a difference between attacking policy, and attacking a politician.

I am of the same opinion in RL politics, as I am in Nation States.

A person who attacks the MESSENGER has no ammunition to use against the MESSAGE.

So - the poster who hurls insults in Nation States - is proving his lack of capability to attack an argument.

Similarly - the politician who resorts to attacking the opponent, rather than opponent policy, is lacking any real political strategy, and is relying on the politics of passion - the politics of 'hate'.

As an Englishman, this is 'just' American politics to me... but Bush WOULD have lost my support, if I voted, purely because of the way he ran his campaign.

*slams bump button* I think we need to keep this in the people's eyes.

Average American -

- lets their agendas be set by their government

- sees mostly short-term goals, benefits / ignores bigger picture, potential for long-term hardships

- impatient, unable to see alternate points of view

- belligerent, self-congratulatory

- enjoys feeling 'persecuted', hence - opportunity to whinge endlessly about themselves / their belief systems not being given center stage at all times

- prideful, vengeful, corpulent and extraordinarily cynical

- claims vociferously that none of the aforementioned qualities are true / demands links to prove that the aforementioned qualities are true / pillories anyone claiming the aforementioned qualities are true.

- loud and obnoxious, though apparently failing to realize such


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


- Why do I feel this way? Simple. Exposure to Americans either directly in person, or indirectly through online forums. A notable exception to this are direct dealings with expatriate Americans, who by virtue of having left, have gained sufficient perspective to know how the rest of the planet thinks and feels.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hey, you asked...


think about spring breakers in cancun... that's what i see in mexico... sad thing

Americans are very nice, they run casinos and collect large grants from the us government, they have a number of tribes and they live on many reservations throughout the country. Recently, some of the tribes have suffered from obesity issues as they adopt a western style diet and lifestyle.


Mmmh... they are better than our Americans here in Mexico... most of them cannot afford the luxury of suffering from obesity. And they don't run almost anything. Quite sad.

Not an American of any kind... more an Englishman residing in the States... but I agree, which is why I TRY to type US or USA, rather than America.

It's kind of like the way the US "World Series" is a platform for US teams... certain words just get 'owned'.

lol, world series, that's true!! haha come to think of it, there are many words and phrases about sports that use "World Event" or whatever.... and the participants are only from the states...

you know, you're right, we could stand to mind our own beeswax once in a while, couldn't we?

um, my English is not that great... can you tell me what does beeswax mean? haha i don't even know if your post is sarcastic, friendly, or whatever, just for that word! haha sorry

And there you go, Green Israel. Proof positive that I read your entire post. Don't you feel special now?

wow

i wished someone read MY posts like that...
:D

As a proud American, I must first say that as a nation we do the best we can. Yes, we are money hungry, but we are a capitalist society. And what's wrong with that? Free Enterprise is what has made us probably THE most dominant country in such a short time. It is for these reasons that millions of foreign born people have sought so hard to come here.

Despite all our efforts though, we get it wrong sometimes. People get pissed because we rush into situations and maybe don't take the time to think it through and weigh all the options. The other side to that is something called Analysis paralysis. Where you take so much time to do things that they never get done.

The really ironic thing to me, and many other american, is how ungrateful most of the rest of the world is too. When there is a disaster anywhere in the world, be it friend or 'foe' we send aid. Natural or man-made disasters. We are there. Americans take time from their lives to help others. But people don't want to talk about that. Especially the Liberal American and brittish media.

The single thing that continually crosses my mind is that when the world is in need, America gives whatever it can to help, but when America is in need. No other country really helps us. When Terrorists bombed the World trade centers, hundreds of works spent weeks sorting through the rubble searching for bodies. Working themselves to exhaustion, until they could barely stand. No one came to our aid.

So before you critisize my beloved country, think about what we may have done for yours.


ok, first of all, the US do NOT help ANY nation if they don't win something there. i am NOT talking about the citizens (they DO help). i am talking about your government.

Cubans are suffering from hunger and economical problems. Does your government help them? NO!!! THEY IMPOSED the conditions that have made Cuba such a disaster. DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT BLAMING FIDEL CASTRO, he has somehow managed to keep Cuba afloat, but just barely. Oh, and i do not believe in communism, i am quite capitalist myself. But you can¿t tell me your country helps others while keeping Cuba isolated. Only the government from my country and that of Venezuela have sent your governments requirements to isolate Cuba down to hell.

Please, show me examples of your government helping other countries, WITHOUT having any economic interests there. And i can make you a list of how your country has NOT, AT ALL, helped other countries.

Do not forget, this has nothing to do with the thread. i KNOW that many US citizens try to help around the world and are caring for other people. But your GOVERNMENT is a completely different story.

think about spring breakers in cancun... that's what i see in mexico... sad thing

I've seen it in the off-season in Cancun, as well. It made all the rest of us (Canadians, British, German, Italian guests) very uneasy. The little hotel we stayed in had to kick five unruly American guests out while we were there, in fact they'd drunkenly threatened to kill my SO and I. In the lobby. In front of the staff and the other guests.

We met a woman swimming at a lagoon we visited, who said she was from Santa Monica and thought this was about as exotic as a trip to a State park - she was just not impressed by any of the sand or surf, she was a jaded traveller. She was shruggingly polite to the two of us, but she treated the local people with a disdain I've rarely seen. All thieves and hustlers and filthy, she told us. I kid you not.

I found the people in Cancun to be terrific. Very warm, if at times somewhat tragic. I found the Americans to be so downright awful that I truly began feeling sorry for the Mexicans in Cancun. Thinking about it now just made a shiver run up my spine.

Y-ee-ee-sh!

I think it's too hard to paint all Americans (or everyone from any given nationality) with the same brush. There are nice people and there are assholes in all countries.

lol my country is filled with assholes! have you read about our political parties? or about our incompetent, full of imbeciles, congress? or about our soft and weak, right wing president (that sounds contradicting, doesn't it?)?

oooh well, back to study... maybe i can change things a bit in the future

I'm not sure if any other americans have posted on this thread yet (I will go back and read through it to find out though), but I have one thought on our country. The people who seem to care the most, are the people who cannot make a difference. I am a minor, under the age of 18, and very opinionated in politics. The biggest problem with America is that it refuses repeatedly to listen to those who are underage but are often wiser than they are. Take, for example, George W. Bush... it's been stated many many times that he is a complete moron. We are aware of that, and I'd esitmate the majority of people want to throw him out of power, or in my case, to try and set him on the right track to possibly help him redeem himself or even with time become a decent president. My parents often tell me that I am disrespectful of our "leader" because of my views and how vocal I am of them but it is what I believe in. This is a rather long winded speech from a high school student in New Jersey, but what I want to say to my country as well as others is that those of us that want to and try very hard to make a difference in the way we are viewed from the outside are often silenced because we are young or unprofessional. When you look at America from the outside, think of those people who are trying, almost in vain to make the country a little better from the inside.


That is great!! Do not feel disappointed or small, you will eventually grow up and have the legal power to make your voice stand out!! Do not, ever, EVER, let ANYONE tell you to shut up, or to change the way you are, or to think differently from what you stand. If all of US youth were like you, I am sure many countries would change their minds about the USA.

Way to go vecino!!

(vecino = neighbour)

I preface this by saying these are personal opinions based upon personal experiences. In no way am I trying to project my opinions on others, nor have I made any scientific analyses. I am also from the red state, Bible-thumping heartland of the USA.

From what I have seen and from the people I talk to on a daily basis, and from the stories I see on the news or read in the papers, Americans are either blind to the facts or too busy to care.

Those that do pay attention and are intelligent enough to base their opinions on facts are either the evil-genius type or the "OMFG! I have three jobs" type. The first is trying to rule the world, the second doesn't have time to stop them.

Our local news media tends to focus on nut-jobs, trajedies and meaningless filler. Our national news is so biased and full of opinionated expert commentary that it's hard to define what is fact or fiction. International news is CNN - or 2 pages in the back of our local newspapers. The rest of our information comes from talk shows. Remember, Jerry Springer, Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern have larger audiences than most countries have citizens.

In the USA, it's getting hard to find a good job, it's hard to keep a good job (many tend to go overseas or become automated), it's expensive here and once you get financially knocked down (especially in a big city) it takes forever to get back up, if you can. On the other hand, I know a lot of people that don't comprehend hard work, yet they complain about immigrants taking their jobs.

We love to sue people because most of us can't stand to be wrong, or can't afford to be sued by admitting fault. Our insurance industry works this way, our legal system works this way, and the law is a multi-billion dollar industry. The content of most business contracts in the USA is about 20% of "what we will do for you" and 80% of "how we can/cannot sue each other."

Our most popular form of entertainment is the TV show. Currently, the most popular shows are "reality" shows where the winning contestant is the one that can screw everybody else the best. Also among the most popular shows are the "I had a baby with my mother-in-law" talk shows, cribs of the rich and obnoxious, etc.

Regardless of the forgotten past, over the last 40 years there are a few statistically proven facts about the USA:
- our kids aren't as well educated as they used to be
- fewer kids go to college and even fewer pursue technical degrees
- more people descend into poverty every year
- there are more rich people than ever before
- the rich people are more rich than ever before
- we are more in debt, personally and as a nation, than ever before
- we've lost our technical dominance of the world (except for military and biotech)

With spending on education and other social programs being slashed into obsolescence by the current administration, and the utter mismanagement and incompetency of previous administrations, I don't see these trends being reversed by any government efforts. Our political leaders are padding their pockets while doing a really crappy job of running the country. We in the USA do not have a monopoly on corrupt politicians though, so don't throw too many turds at us.

Our foreign policy is and has forever been driven by our "national interests." At this point in time, and in our past, our "national interests" consist of security and oil. One doesn't have to dig too deep to find US backing of an oppressive regime in an oil rich country (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Nigeria to name a few). To say only the French and Russians profit from such regimes (which they do) is to turn a blind eye to our methods of gathering wealth.

Some would say I should find another country to live in if I don't like it here. I say that I can't think of one that would be any better, and plenty are worse. At least in this country we have the means to change things (until those means are taken away). And we still have plenty of gun-toting nut-jobs ready to shoot those fed bastards in the ass as soon as they cross the line into fascism.

That's enough of a rant. Let the flaming begin...


that is probably the BEST summary about US citizens and their ideas i have read in years

no flaming for you, applause!

BTW, if you think your leaders are corrupt, i would gladly like to invite you to the "glorious" United States of Mexico (yes, that is its REAL name)

wow i just made like 10 posts in a row... that's what happens when you go to sleep and miss every other post, then read them all and answer something here and something there... no more writing from me, promise

sorry!

Oh, it was entertaining, though...

ok, first of all, the US do NOT help ANY nation if they don't win something there. i am NOT talking about the citizens (they DO help). i am talking about your government.

Cubans are suffering from hunger and economical problems. Does your government help them? NO!!! THEY IMPOSED the conditions that have made Cuba such a disaster. DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT BLAMING FIDEL CASTRO, he has somehow managed to keep Cuba afloat, but just barely. Oh, and i do not believe in communism, i am quite capitalist myself. But you can¿t tell me your country helps others while keeping Cuba isolated. Only the government from my country and that of Venezuela have sent your governments requirements to isolate Cuba down to hell.

Please, show me examples of your government helping other countries, WITHOUT having any economic interests there. And i can make you a list of how your country has NOT, AT ALL, helped other countries.

Do not forget, this has nothing to do with the thread. i KNOW that many US citizens try to help around the world and are caring for other people. But your GOVERNMENT is a completely different story.

Comes back to what I said, previously.

United States = the 'Americans' (who are, generally, good people), and the 'American' Government (who are, like any other government) self-serving and corrupt.

Comes back to what I said, previously.

United States = the 'Americans' (who are, generally, good people), and the 'American' Government (who are, like any other government) self-serving and corrupt.
:fluffle: mornin sunshine

:fluffle: mornin sunshine

Yowsers! Do you never sleep?

Bon matin, mon ami. :)

Yowsers! Do you never sleep?

Bon matin, mon ami. :)
2 or three hours a night

Plenty

that is probably the BEST summary about US citizens and their ideas i have read in years

no flaming for you, applause!

BTW, if you think your leaders are corrupt, i would gladly like to invite you to the "glorious" United States of Mexico (yes, that is its REAL name)

Lets talk about that for a moment shall we.....tell us about your Government.


mornin' Grave and UT :)

Lets talk about that for a moment shall we.....tell us about your Government.


mornin' Grave and UT :)
Mornin beautifull :fluffle:

Mornin beautifull :fluffle:

you guys are funny...

you guys are funny...
I try ;)

What fun is life without being able to laugh some

i've been reading a few threads here, and it looks like some people take themselves too seriously. i mean, they're not going to solve the war or anything else if they're on here.

oops... there's the toast...

Everyone from Boston is evil, cos i got robbed by a traveller from Boston once and also, it sounds like Michael Bolton


Hey, I'm from the Boston area, we're not all bad people! Next time you decide to come over, stop by my place - I'll make sure to show you where the decent places are, maybe you were robbed by someone from Dorchester or soemthing....but don't generalize about my hometown!

oh, and by the way...Michael Bolton may have a last name that sounds like 'Boston', but he's not from around here...there's a band called 'Boston' ya know...they're pretty good.

Lets talk about that for a moment shall we.....tell us about your Government.


mornin' Grave and UT :)

Ooooh, when did YOU sneak in....?

Morning, my lovely... how YOU doin?

Ooooh, when did YOU sneak in....?

Morning, my lovely... how YOU doin?
:( I thought I was your lovely

2 or three hours a night

Plenty

I only do about 4 hours sleep, myself.

Anything more seems like a waste...

:( I thought I was your lovely

I already said morning to you, mon chere... :)

I only do about 4 hours sleep, myself.

Anything more seems like a waste...
Yup (that or 60 - 70 hrs a week on top of school) ehh

Yup (that or 60 - 70 hrs a week on top of school) ehh

School.. heh... I wish!

School.. heh... I wish!
The 60 - 70 hrs was work ... sorry did not make that clear

Then full time collage on top of that work

The 60 - 70 hrs was work ... sorry did not make that clear

Then full time collage on top of that work

And then, you're on NS for another 12 hours a day... you must be getting 'time-loans' or something... :)

And then, you're on NS for another 12 hours a day... you must be getting 'time-loans' or something... :)
Nope ... what do you think I do at work ;)

Nope ... what do you think I do at work ;)

Actually... prodding my memory with big sticks... I think you were talking about being at work... at the school... messing with computers... the other night...

Or is poking my memory making it invent stuff?

It seems that most, but definitely not all, Americans are ignorant, especially about their own government. But they can't all be.

But there are definitely lots of intelligent well informed Americans too. It's mainly just the government and powerful businessmen that annoy me.

*slams bump button*

Lets talk about that for a moment shall we.....tell us about your Government.


mornin' Grave and UT :)

mmh i live in a country where the Executive and the Legislative powers are controlled from opposing parties, so nothing gets done. The president is the first one of a party that is not the PRI (Institutional Revolution Party) for 70 years, so the ruling party (now PAN, National Action Party) is kinda new in the job of ruling.

The legislative power (controlled by the PRI) is always against any motions the executive power (PAN) proposes. The PRI wants to make it impossible to the president to rule in order to gain power again in 2006 elections... and in the process, many important reforms (sp?) are being ignored or dismissed: privatization of power services, privatization of PEMEX (controls oil), and other important economic changes.

So you could say that parties here only want power, not what is best for mexican people... but at least, we now live in a real democracy, and the president is just another human being... instead of a mighty, untouchable figure.

I met a girl from the US at university a few weeks ago. At first, when I heard her accent I thought "fake", but after having a drink in the bar, and talking to her when I see her, she is a great person and a good friend. I supported the US in the Iraq conflict, and I think her continued strength is important.

Either way, I can't judge the US on one person, and I will not go by the Liberal/left leaning bias of UK and European news agencies...the fact is if we want to understand a nation we have to look at the extreme ends of each side, and look for the middle. However, if I was to choose between a fundamental Christian US as the sole world power, or a fundamental Muslim nation as sole power, the US wins.

I don't want to see one of my sisters stoned or hung for wearing nail varnish or having sex outside marriage. I don't want women beaten down so they have no rights, or are too afraid to speak out. Though I would rather a world where faith is solely the personal domain of each person, and not a defining part of a person. And people can just leave each other alone, the problem eith the middle east is that they are too selfsih to accept responsibillity for themselves and blame the obvious people for their problems.
Anything the US does now, has been done a hundred times worse by European nations.

Also a perfect world has the UK out of the European Union ( communist state to be)