NationStates Jolt Archive

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/chitribts/20041220/ts_chicagotrib/christmasisntverymerryforiraqichristians&cid=2027&ncid=1480

Christian leaders estimate that 50,000 of Iraq (news - web sites)'s nearly 800,000 Christians have fled the country since last year, mostly to Jordan and Syria.


And after a year of church bombings, death threats and assassinations, the Christians who remain have all but canceled Christmas.


"Officially, we are not celebrating this year," said Rev. Peter Haddad, head of the Virgin Mary Church in Baghdad.


Fearing insurgent attacks, Christian bishops across predominantly Muslim Iraq recently announced they would call off the usual Christmas celebrations. Some churches will forgo Christmas Eve mass, unheard of even during the Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) regime.


More than 700 people once packed Haddad's church during the holidays. Last Sunday, 27 worshipers showed up.


Christians have lived in Iraq for hundreds of years, enjoying peaceful relations with Muslims for most of that time. But after the U.S.-led invasion, insurgents began targeting the community, accusing Christians of cooperating with American "infidels" by working as translators, house cleaners and merchants. Harassment became so bad that many Christian women began wearing a hijab, or Muslim head scarf.

Really, Muslims are tolerant, and Iraq is now a better place.

In Saudia Arabi it is illegal to

- Own a Bible or import one into the country
- Convert from Islam to another religion
- Be a citizen but not Muslim (Not illegal as such, but you cannot be a citizen without being Muslim)
- Practice non Muslim worship in public/private

And this in a country with the Qu'ran as its constitution.

In Saudia Arabi it is illegal to

- Own a Bible or import one into the country
- Convert from Islam to another religion
- Be a citizen but not Muslim (Not illegal as such, but you cannot be a citizen without being Muslim)
- Practice non Muslim worship in public/private

And this in a country with the Qu'ran as its constitution.
It is also a monarchy which might be more relevant.

Its also the country that all the sept 11 hijackers were from, and a country that the US still seems to like.

In Saudia Arabi it is illegal to

- Own a Bible or import one into the country
- Convert from Islam to another religion
- Be a citizen but not Muslim (Not illegal as such, but you cannot be a citizen without being Muslim)
- Practice non Muslim worship in public/private

And this in a country with the Qu'ran as its constitution.
I have no problem with that as I would never choose to live there. As long as when they come to the UK they comply with our laws and recognise that this is a Christian country.

It is also a monarchy which might be more relevant.


You live in the United KINGDOM, right?

You live in the United KINGDOM, right?

Saudi Arabia is an Absolute Monarchy. The UK is a Constituational monarchy.

I have no problem with that as I would never choose to live there. As long as when they come to the UK they comply with our laws and recognise that this is a Christian country.

Despite the fact that there are in violation of about half a dozen articles of the UN convention on Human rights.

Saudi Arabia is an Absolute Monarchy. The UK is a Constituational monarchy.
Thanks, point made for me...

Any religion would do that if given the power. Most religions are based on authoritative power and the constant quest to convert everyone.

Imagine this nation if Pat Roberson or Jerry Falwell were the sole man in power.

Despite the fact that there are in violation of about half a dozen articles of the UN convention on Human rights.
Only a problem if they signed up to it. If they did then why has the UN not acted? If they did not then we can say nothing or we can chuck them out of the UN.

Any religion would do that if given the power. Most religions are based on authoritative power and the constant quest to convert everyone.

Imagine this nation if Pat Roberson or Jerry Falwell were the sole man in power.

Who needs to imagine?

Okay, that's not fair. But it's just a matter of degree.

Only a problem if they signed up to it. If they did then why has the UN not acted? If they did not then we can say nothing or we can chuck them out of the UN.
Because if the UN chucked out all nations that had broken a convention then everyone would have to be kicked out.

Any religion would do that if given the power. Most religions are based on authoritative power and the constant quest to convert everyone.


I disagree. Religions are not based on the want for power. Religous followers will twist it if they have designs for power but not religons themselves. Note the title is "those tollerant Muslims" not "the tollerance of Islam"

Because if the UN chucked out all nations that had broken a convention then everyone would have to be kicked out.
can't remember but it was a British King (I think) who said 'never enact a law you can't enforce.'

Well now... it did not long take for this thread to go off-topic.

I disagree. Religions are not based on the want for power. Religous followers will twist it if they have designs for power but not religons themselves. Note the title is "those tollerant Muslims" not "the tollerance of Islam"

I didn't mean the religions want power, themselves, although a great deal of people have used religion to gain power.

What I meant was they are based on a single truth with one entity in power, the very nature of authoritarianism. The wages of sin are death, anyone?

Christians have lived in Iraq for hundreds of years, enjoying peaceful relations with Muslims for most of that time. But after the U.S.-led invasion, insurgents began targeting the community, accusing Christians of cooperating with American "infidels" by working as translators, house cleaners and merchants.

Read the first sentence and then pay attention to what I have placed in bold. Follow your own logic ...

Let's try it:

"Christians have lived in Iraq for hundreds of years, enjoying peaceful relations with Muslims for most of that time."

And then ......

The US led invasion.

Somehow, I don't think the problem lies with Muslims. Is there some sort of Muslim ID card that I'm unaware of? How many of the insurgents are not Muslim? Can't answer? Of course not. Muslims and Christians both come in all manner of sizes, shapes, and colors of people, so there is no way of knowing a Muslim on sight. Unless you're somehow under the illusion that the only people who will pick up a gun and fight US troops are Muslim.

Never forget: Saddam's 2nd in command was a Christian.

At least there ARE Christians in Arab nations. All the Jews were kicked out in 1948 from around 7 of them. The first victim's of Saddam's public executions were in fact Jews.

It is also a monarchy which might be more relevant.
Not really, the monarchy's control of the country is not nearly as solid as the name implies. This added to the fact that there are hundreds of "nobles" and you get the sticky situation present.

Read the first sentence and then pay attention to what I have placed in bold. Follow your own logic ...

Let's try it:

"Christians have lived in Iraq for hundreds of years, enjoying peaceful relations with Muslims for most of that time."

And then ......

The US led invasion.

Somehow, I don't think the problem lies with Muslims. Is there some sort of Muslim ID card that I'm unaware of? How many of the insurgents are not Muslim? Can't answer? Of course not. Muslims and Christians both come in all manner of sizes, shapes, and colors of people, so there is no way of knowing a Muslim on sight. Unless you're somehow under the illusion that the only people who will pick up a gun and fight US troops are Muslim.

Never forget: Saddam's 2nd in command was a Christian.

As far as I'm concerned... Iraq was a better place when the secularist dictator Saddam was in charge.

And I'd say there are pretty sure-fire ways to spot muslims, despite the lack of an ID card. A Hijab will do just fine... works for 50% of 'em.