NationStates Jolt Archive

Ive seen in the last few days so many "kids" comming on tryign to argue evolution.. (in some cases with only an AP bio class to give them information T_T) in an attempt to argue FOR creatonism.. so.. what is your counter evidence to evolution..

I ONLY ASK THIS CAUSE FROM ALL THAT IVE SEEN I CANT FIND A SINGLE ARGUMENT CREATIONIST MAKE BASED ON ANY EVIDENCE

I am myself catholic so ill pose this to you as well.. The bible was written by god through man.. Remember god gave man the gift of choice, and thus man chose the words .. Man as well is proven to be imperfect, so we can only read the word of gods through the imperfection of human langauge.. how can we ever hope to truely identify his REAL meaning.. This is all to give you some perspective that the bible itself writen by imperfect beings is itself imperfect. You surely must have more evidence then this..

Please do not just rant.. one of the greatest things of debate is supporting evidence.. please atleast post websites supporting your arguments (even if they are biast travesties) This atleast gives some more merit to your point of view then your own uninformed ranting

Ive seen in the last few days so many "kids" comming on tryign to argue evolution.. (in some cases with only an AP bio class to give them information T_T) in an attempt to argue FOR creatonism.. so.. what is your counter evidence to evolution..

I ONLY ASK THIS CAUSE FROM ALL THAT IVE SEEN I CANT FIND A SINGLE ARGUMENT CREATIONIST MAKE BASED ON ANY EVIDENCE

I am myself catholic so ill pose this to you as well.. The bible was written by god through man.. Remember god gave man the gift of choice, and thus man chose the words .. Man as well is proven to be imperfect, so we can only read the word of gods through the imperfection of human langauge.. how can we ever hope to truely identify his REAL meaning.. This is all to give you some perspective that the bible itself writen by imperfect beings is itself imperfect. You surely must have more evidence then this..

Please do not just rant.. one of the greatest things of debate is supporting evidence.. please atleast post websites supporting your arguments (even if they are biast travesties) This atleast gives some more merit to your point of view then your own uninformed ranting
I think I had a thread on this a while back...let me see if I can dredge it up

I don't think some people can comprehend how much time the Earth has been around and all the things that could possibly happen over billions of years. Think about how long that is and how many subtle changes could slowly build up over that time.

http://frogstar.com/aybabtu/images/f-30106206.jpg

Ive seen in the last few days so many "kids" comming on tryign to argue evolution.. (in some cases with only an AP bio class to give them information T_T) in an attempt to argue FOR creatonism.. so.. what is your counter evidence to evolution..

I ONLY ASK THIS CAUSE FROM ALL THAT IVE SEEN I CANT FIND A SINGLE ARGUMENT CREATIONIST MAKE BASED ON ANY EVIDENCE

I am myself catholic so ill pose this to you as well.. The bible was written by god through man.. Remember god gave man the gift of choice, and thus man chose the words .. Man as well is proven to be imperfect, so we can only read the word of gods through the imperfection of human langauge.. how can we ever hope to truely identify his REAL meaning.. This is all to give you some perspective that the bible itself writen by imperfect beings is itself imperfect. You surely must have more evidence then this..

Please do not just rant.. one of the greatest things of debate is supporting evidence.. please atleast post websites supporting your arguments (even if they are biast travesties) This atleast gives some more merit to your point of view then your own uninformed ranting

One can argue for creationism and not counter evolution. It is possable that both are correct. I put this to you: God created this world - with a past.

One can argue for creationism and not counter evolution. It is possable that both are correct. I put this to you: God created this world - with a past.

One can argue for *creation* and not counter evolution.

Creationism is the belief that everything in the Bible is absolutely literal and describes history exactly. (Never mind the two competing creation stories in Genesis).

yes.. i meant to make this point.. If god made the earth.. with a past (though it seemingly has no logical purpose) it would have been mentioned in the bible according to creationist.. So i would like a clearer idea of what the creationist argument is..

(im really hopeing someone who knows and belives creationism well will actually give a structured argument.. not the unsubstanciated ramblings of most of the children on this forum who are in basic science classes and belive they have all the information)

One can argue for *creation* and not counter evolution.

Creationism is the belief that everything in the Bible is absolutely literal and describes history exactly. (Never mind the two competing creation stories in Genesis).

I think it still works: God creates the world in seven literal days, creates Eve from Adam's rib etc. But, when the inhabitants of the world were created (indeed the earth itself), they had a history which we are now discovering and attributing to evolution (which continues and is whitnessed). I refer to the scene in the Bible (I can't quote, but its well known) where Jesus turns water into wine (requiring that the wine had a history it never walked). As is understood, Jesus worked God's hand. Of course, the alternative is that a 'day' represents a long time, but yes, that's not creationism.

yes.. i meant to make this point.. If god made the earth.. with a past (though it seemingly has no logical purpose) it would have been mentioned in the bible according to creationist.. So i would like a clearer idea of what the creationist argument is..

(im really hopeing someone who knows and belives creationism well will actually give a structured argument.. not the unsubstanciated ramblings of most of the children on this forum who are in basic science classes and belive they have all the information)

Unfortunately, I'm not a creationist personally, but I think I'm making logical sense. I also believe in natural selection, so it's difficult to stucture an argument against it. I'll try if you like.

Ive seen in the last few days so many "kids" comming on tryign to argue evolution.. (in some cases with only an AP bio class to give them information T_T) in an attempt to argue FOR creatonism.. so.. what is your counter evidence to evolution..

I ONLY ASK THIS CAUSE FROM ALL THAT IVE SEEN I CANT FIND A SINGLE ARGUMENT CREATIONIST MAKE BASED ON ANY EVIDENCE

I am myself catholic so ill pose this to you as well.. The bible was written by god through man.. Remember god gave man the gift of choice, and thus man chose the words .. Man as well is proven to be imperfect, so we can only read the word of gods through the imperfection of human langauge.. how can we ever hope to truely identify his REAL meaning.. This is all to give you some perspective that the bible itself writen by imperfect beings is itself imperfect. You surely must have more evidence then this..

Please do not just rant.. one of the greatest things of debate is supporting evidence.. please atleast post websites supporting your arguments (even if they are biast travesties) This atleast gives some more merit to your point of view then your own uninformed ranting

I have more then a single AP class in Bio. and I will argue for creationism. I am a southern baptist who does enjoy some great dried chicken. know fried chicken.. soak it in butter milk all night then flour and cook it in pure lard. you can feel the arteries clogging. but that is neither here not there.
to go for creationsim I will first point out that evolution did not happen. Everyone who took that advanced Bio course knows of the experiements done to prove that basic amino acids "might" have been formed from the condition of a planet with trace elements in its atmosphere some ions ago. but nothing more complexed then that could of been created from just elemets. Nothing has proven that evolution truly occured over time. and since there is no proof that evolution occrued by molecules combining together to great amino acids which myseriously turned into organism creationism is a logical choice.
Personally I see flaws in creationism. such as carbon dating for one thing. if you dont see how this goes agaisnt creationism dont bother me. I believe that God created this world. I do disagree with strict adherance to a book that has no original copy to go back too. and which of course comes from a dead language.
But to argue for creationism or evolution while your still in high school is rather pointless. Like people saying Jesus Christ was black. which would be stupid to say. no he was not white either thats the same stupidity of being still in high school. ( yes I know many adults and my peers try to argue these points).
If you are in high school dont sorry about evolution, creationsim, or other things. Learn them study them let life teach you. ( we will never know the truth until we invent time travel or find an alien species that created us{for those who believe that cant forget the scifi lovers}) GO OUT AND TRY TO PICK UP A CHICK. do us all a favor sow your wild oats. if I'm not mistaken I read in an article that the y chromosone is being depleted and that in 2500 generations or something like that. That men will no loner be born cause of the deopleted y chromosone.

to go for creationsim I will first point out that evolution did not happen. Everyone who took that advanced Bio course knows of the experiements done to prove that basic amino acids "might" have been formed from the condition of a planet with trace elements in its atmosphere some ions ago. but nothing more complexed then that could of been created from just elemets. Nothing has proven that evolution truly occured over time. and since there is no proof that evolution occrued by molecules combining together to great amino acids which myseriously turned into organism creationism is a logical choice.

Either you failed your class or the class really sucked. ((Not that this is surprising in the South)).

Abiogenesis and evolution are separate theories. Everything you described above refers to *abiogenesis* and not *evolution.

But to argue for creationism or evolution while your still in high school is rather pointless.

This is true. From what I've seen on these forums, they don't even teach you guys about the scientific method well enough that you understand it - and that's at the beginning of *every* high school science textbook.

Ive seen in the last few days so many "kids" comming on tryign to argue evolution.. (in some cases with only an AP bio class to give them information T_T) in an attempt to argue FOR creatonism.. so.. what is your counter evidence to evolution..
Well, if they actually learned anything, than anyone who's taken an AP biology class should know that creationism is bullsh*t. Hell, I haven't even taken an AP biology class yet, and according to standardised tests, I know far more in all fields of science than the average American. My bio class was more than sufficient to explain evolution, however, even if I did know 87% of the material beforehand.

I have more then a single AP class in Bio. and I will argue for creationism. I am a southern baptist who does enjoy some great dried chicken.
This is only acceptable because you're a Southern Baptist, who as well all know are irritating as hell when it comes to discussing science.

Creationism is most likely not true, but there are certain morals that were taught to ancient cultures through it. I never found anything more to the story than this. It is a myth mean to convey a message.
PS Darwin is not really that correct anyways. His theory is flawed because there has to be something greater at work if humans were to come to exist.

If you're trying to refute the existence of God with this thread, I think this is the wrong arguement to use. :headbang:

Either you failed your class or the class really sucked. ((Not that this is surprising in the South)).
Hey, no need to diss the South, here. I was raised in Georgia, and when I moved to Arizona I was appalled at the state of the education system here. Much worse than in Georgia. Then again, the South I know was just outside of Atlanta; other parts could be as bad as Tucson was.

Either you failed your class or the class really sucked. ((Not that this is surprising in the South)).

Abiogenesis and evolution are separate theories. Everything you described above refers to *abiogenesis* and not *evolution.



This is true. From what I've seen on these forums, they don't even teach you guys about the scientific method well enough that you understand it - and that's at the beginning of *every* high school science textbook.

Ah I said I am from the south not that I went to college in the south. though I wish I had I missed my grits.
and for you to say something about the south having sucky schools. Well thats a typical elitist. atleast when I went away to school I did not let my education go to my head. which I guess is proof agaisnt creationism.. darn it.... guess we were not made in gods image.. with the large head and all.
But to ignore the begining of the world and the theories that lead up to evolution is pointless as well. like trying to eat a hot dog from the middle to the end and then tossing away the other half. (poor starving ethiopians) see what your doing to the world.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean science and religion have to conflict. They are complementary, they work together to find the truth. It may be true that Creationism isn't correct, but Darwin's theory isn't completely correct unless you see that the universe is evolving, and something greater is working.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean science and religion have to conflict. They are complementary, they work together to find the truth. It may be true that Creationism isn't correct, but Darwin's theory isn't completely correct unless you see that the universe is evolving, and something greater is working.

Hear! Hear!

the message of creationism is true, but it was never meant to be scientific fact

Well, if they actually learned anything, than anyone who's taken an AP biology class should know that creationism is bullsh*t. Hell, I haven't even taken an AP biology class yet, and according to standardised tests, I know far more in all fields of science than the average American. My bio class was more than sufficient to explain evolution, however, even if I did know 87% of the material beforehand.


This is only acceptable because you're a Southern Baptist, who as well all know are irritating as hell when it comes to discussing science.

I'm a southern baptist who pointed out flaws in evolution ( ie no evidence of certian links in evolutionary chains). I alwo pointed out flaws in creationism. and suddenly I'm the one who is at fault. gee I just tried to give a little perspective that no scientific facts are complete in evolution nor is creationism factually based ( its faith ). and since you know so much more then the "average " american at that age. I would like to kindly point out that the average american freshmen and sophmore is pretty low on the totem pole in knowledge compared to other developed countries. When I was in Russia I knew a 13 year old who was taking physics and had already taken bio. I know there are kids who do it atr younger ages. but he was an average student over there. so hate to deflate your ego but being in the 87 perfentile is not a big deal. I made straight C's in high school grand pa was a nuclear physisist and never dropped below 96 percentile on standardized test ( except english heck even in college I took the bare min to graduate). which as a White middle class male is totally biased towards me. ( oh ... right I was not suppose to mention that most liberals believe that). I have been in school accross the south and the north. And I meet my frist teach from california when I was 11 ( my mom was and still is a teacher I got to go to the national teacher conferences ) who taught evolution and creationism in her class room ( well for one semester at a private school anyway). I think she said it best " we dont know what really happened so who not teach it all"
I think I got off topic darn it. It just hurts when I see the youth of america being happy with being just above average. get off your lazy ass and strive to be more then average. Strive to know all theories of evolution. learn creationism. Perhaps you will be the person who is able to link all the theories into a proven fact. one never knows

Ah I said I am from the south not that I went to college in the south.
I have pess of a problem with the South and more with Southern Baptists. And Evangelicals and Christian Scientists. Though I do admit that red states typically have worse education than the blue states. I live in Montgomery County, MD, which has the best edcuation system in the country, even ahead of the richest, Fairfax, VA. It is indeed true that the South has worse education overall. Such as South Carolina, which has the 49th worst in the country, according to the Daily Show if i recall correctly.

I think I got off topic darn it. It just hurts when I see the youth of america being happy with being just above average. get off your lazy ass and strive to be more then average. Strive to know all theories of evolution. learn creationism. Perhaps you will be the person who is able to link all the theories into a proven fact. one never knows
I must have articulated myself badly. Though I do admit, I haven't read the Bible yet, though I intend to, so I don't fully understand creationism yet. And I am not happy with "above average". I put very little weight in standardised tests. I greatly believe in Howard Gardner's "theory" of multiple intelligences, and just loath the concept that there can be any type of "intelligence quotient". And I do not rate myself against my peers, I rate myself against myself. I was just trying to show that I am most certainly not ignorant. I am currently reading Virus Hunters of the CDC by Joseph B. McCormick and Susan Fisher-Hoch, which deals with biosafety level 4 viruses and HIV. I'm currently studying, on my own, how reverse transcriptase and antiretroviral therapy works, which led to some epidemiology, as well as just how it is that prions actually work. Haven't made much progress on the second one yet, damnit. How does it freakin' work without genetic material?!? I think that it is kind of like how ATP inhibitors can be carcinogenic because of increased fermentation, but that is just an analogy I have made with my low level of understanding of those damnable prions. I am also working towards being able to understand all of Kreb's cycle down to the electron tranferrance level. I am 15, and I have never been taught anything near that level in school. I don't think calling me a lazy ass was warrented...

the message of creationism is true, but it was never meant to be scientific fact

This is the only "argument" there can be for creationism.

My beliefs aside, you cannot claim that creationism has any bearing outside of faith... evolution is enough of a stretch as is.

evolution is enough of a stretch as is.
How's it a stretch?

Hey, no need to diss the South, here. I was raised in Georgia, and when I moved to Arizona I was appalled at the state of the education system here. Much worse than in Georgia. Then again, the South I know was just outside of Atlanta; other parts could be as bad as Tucson was.

I was raised in GA as well, so it's not like I'm talking out of my ass here. I went to one of the best school systems in the state rated 50th in the country (for high school anyways). I know what the school system and society are like here. The school system in the county next door to where I currently live is so worked up over evolution that they want to put little disclaimer stickers on all the science books (and ignore the fact that the disclaimer applies to *all* scientific theory, not just the one part they don't like). I am *well* aware of the situation here.

and for you to say something about the south having sucky schools. Well thats a typical elitist.

I went to school in the south, so I don't think it is elitist to point out the problems. I was in one of the top-rated districts in GA, and even then we didn't have enough animals to dissect in biology or enough books for that matter. Of course, from the way it looks from your post, I learned more biology in high school than you did in college.

But to ignore the begining of the world and the theories that lead up to evolution is pointless as well. like trying to eat a hot dog from the middle to the end and then tossing away the other half. (poor starving ethiopians) see what your doing to the world.

You really are confused, aren't you? Evolution can stand as a theory for what it describes regardless of how the world began. It is quite easy (although not all that scientific) to say "God made the world, started evolution, and then it happened basically according to the theory..." What people like you, who want to set up a false dichotomy, fail to realise is that they *are* separate theories which can exist separately from one another. Well, abiogenesis (the current theory) cannot really exist without evolutionary theory, but evolutionary theory could certainly exist without the current abiogenesis theory.