NationStates Jolt Archive

In the battle royale of Federation's Starfleet (From Star Trek), the Imperial Navy (from Star Wars), and some kind of... third party battlefleet (Space Libertarians?)... uh... who wins?

Personally, I think the Star Wars guys would win, despite their gross incompetence, but I think the Space-Libs would give them a run for their money.

What does everyone else think?

Driver ants.

Everybody knows you need four things to defeat the Imperial Navy:

1. X-Wings
2. (Kamikaze) A-Wings
3. The Millenium Falcon
4. "It's a trap!" Ackbar

Not one of the other factions has even one of those things. Ergo Imps pwn all.

It depends, phasers and such are more advanced then that of lasers and turbo lasers, and yet, if you follow the time line of


Star Wars = Long Time Ago

Star Trek = Long Time Away

then if you caught up the timeline, you'd have a much more advanced technology in the Star Wars galaxy, because it would have been around a lot longer, but the Imperials lost, so they wouldn't be there, so I guess, it all depends on how you wish to advance the time lines and such, though I'll still pick Star Wars, can't beat the Jedi's and Sith. Though imagine the borg and the sith combined.......

I think it's very funny that the "America Sucks" choice is twice as popular as the Star Trek choice.

I had this debate with a good friend years ago.

Simple answer:
Star wars has no answer for the race of omnipotent beings known as Q.

If they wish to, *poof* no more ships, planets, etc

Good Game Star Wars :)

It depends, phasers and such are more advanced then that of lasers and turbo lasers

What? Turbolasers are so advanced we think they're impossible. Or something like that. I'm not sure.

Star wars has no answer for the race of omnipotent beings known as Q.

Q = The Force. And since both the Jedi and Sith (and various other non-aligned force sensitive entities) can manipulate this QForce I think we can surmise that you are wrong.

Hehe. This is fun. :D

What does everyone else think?
That's when men were men.

Could you imagine the enterprise fighting the Millenium Falcon?

The Falcon would fly circles around the brick, while the Star Trek crew is wondering why it isn't slowly following while they bombard each other.

Star Wars ships would kill Star Trek ones any day.

And how about villains: Darth Vader against er...Star Trek can never keep a villain for very long can they?

Star Trek would win by far:

Borg = Very powerful ships
Species 8472 = Small ships and can kill Borg cube in 1 shot ( as well as planets)

As for those pesky TIE fighters, "Theres too many of 'em!!!!!"

I had this debate with a good friend years ago.

Simple answer:
Star wars has no answer for the race of omnipotent beings known as Q.

If they wish to, *poof* no more ships, planets, etc

Good Game Star Wars :)
Yes but if this were a war between humans, then why would the "Q" care? Besides Star Wars has jedi. "The power to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."

Hmm... a ship that can kill a planet with one shot. Sound familiar

*cough: Death Star*

Awesome, this is my type of question. (I've generally tried to model my nation after the Galactic Empire.)

Clearly, the Galactic Empire is going to win this battle. They have an impervious vessel that can destroy entire solar systems, and another that can blow planets to smithereens. Their armada is intensly large, with troops ranging in the trillions. Moreover, they have the Emperor, who can, according to Star Wars canon, only be overcome by the Chosen One. As none of the other armies have the Chosen One, the G.E. wins by default. :p

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/

Star Wars, because I'm a Star Wars fan.

In a book I read (I do not remeber which one), the Grand Admiral Thrawn let the Princess Leia Organa and the Rebellion gain control over the known part of the galaxy. Trawn abdicated.

For a technical site proving (with facts) The Galactic Empire superiority of over Star Trek see: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/

<a href="http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/">http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/</a>Uhh...
HTML code isn't the same as PHP code. However it is similar.

I do believe I specified the Federation's Starfleet... but I don't really care. I'm anxious to see Vader versus Khan.

*woopah* Khaaaaaaaaan! *woopah*

10) In the Star Wars Universe weapons are rarely, if ever, set on "stun".

9) The Enterprise needs a huge engine room with an anti-matter unit and a crew of 20 just to go into warp --- The Millennium Falcon does the same thing with R2-D2 and a Wookie.

8) After resisting the Imperial torture droid and Darth Vader, Princess Leia still looked fresh and desirable --- After pithy Cardassian starvation torture, Picard looked like hell.

7) One word: Lightsabers.

6) Darth Vader could choke the entire Borg empire with one glance.

5) The Death Star doesn't care if a world is class "M" or not.

4) Luke Skywalker is not obsessed with sleeping with every alien he encounters.

3) Jabba the Hutt would eat Harry Mudd for trying to cut in on his action.

2) The Federation would have to attempt to liberate any ship named "Slave I".

1) Picard pilots the Enterprise through asteroid belts at one-quarter impulse power --- Han Solo floors it.

Any questions?

4) Luke Skywalker is not obsessed with sleeping with every alien he encounters.

Though, arguably, he should be. Green skinned alien dancing girls. Mmmmmm. :)

Let's put it this way: I believe that the turbolasers are simply another form of phasers; that is, to say, that they are of the same strength. Simarly, proton torpedoes are simply photon torpedoes with a different name; they even look the same.
The Death Star, however, is pathetic. For Star Wars to destroy a planet, they need a small moon sized station, and a ridiculous amount of power and charge time. For Star Trek, all they'd need is a Planet Buster, which is essentially a super-condensed antimatter bomb. Fill it with enough antimatter, toss that into a planet, and boom. A hell of a lot cheaper too.
However, the Imperial starships, as far as I know, do not have sheilding. Further, Star Trek is simply more advanced in terms of weaponry, as well as having the advantage of several different alien races that would aid the Federation if need be. Can anyone say Scimitar? I'm certain the Romulan Star Empire built more of those types of warbirds after Shinzon prooved their worth; they're essentially Star Trek's answer to the huge Imperial ships.
Oh, and that list posted by that other person is complete crap. Allow me to demonstrate:
10) In the Star Wars Universe weapons are rarely, if ever, set on "stun".
Answer: So? The Federation is simply more benign, and doesn't believe in killing everything in sight; they are, in fact, peaceful. Doesn't mean that they can't be badasses in ground war though; the exact opposite, in fact. Same with space war. Just watch the Dominion War story arc from Deep Space Nine; we Feds can kick your Imperial ass if need be.

9) The Enterprise needs a huge engine room with an anti-matter unit and a crew of 20 just to go into warp --- The Millennium Falcon does the same thing with R2-D2 and a Wookie.
Answer: Size matters, idiot. The Enterprise is a much larger starship. I believe that the Millennium Falcon is only about three times the size of your basic shuttlecraft, whereas the Enterprise--in this case, I believe you're talking about the D, if not the E--is 642 meters in length alone.

8) After resisting the Imperial torture droid and Darth Vader, Princess Leia still looked fresh and desirable --- After pithy Cardassian starvation torture, Picard looked like hell.
Answer: Oh please; that was an asthetic choice for the movie. pls, all they did was mess with her brain somewhat; in Picard's case, he was purposely trashed in appearence to begin with and then tortured in many, many different ways beyond mere starvation.

7) One word: Lightsabers.
Answer: And this has to do with what? Supposedly, we're talking about a battle with the IMPERIAL FORCES. No Jedi would help them. The only lightsaber they'd have is Vader's. Moron.
6) Darth Vader could choke the entire Borg empire with one glance.
Answer: Really? I'd like to see him try. First, it's not an Empire; it's a Collective. Essentially, all minds in the Borg Collective are linked as one. You're talking about killing trillions upon trillions of beings with one glance. If he was capable of that, how could Luke ever defeat him? Moron.
5) The Death Star doesn't care if a world is class "M" or not.
Answer: Again, what's your point? The class M designation is simply for Earth-like worlds; it has nothing to do with the capabilities of Starfleet. Idiot.
4) Luke Skywalker is not obsessed with sleeping with every alien he encounters.
Answer: Neither was Kirk; he was just a ladies man. Plus, this has no relevance on the battle, again.
3) Jabba the Hutt would eat Harry Mudd for trying to cut in on his action.
Answer: Meh, maybe. But then again, how would this affect the battle in any way?
2) The Federation would have to attempt to liberate any ship named "Slave I".
Answer: And you're saying that this is a bad thing? Honestly, your lack of intelligence astounds me.
1) Picard pilots the Enterprise through asteroid belts at one-quarter impulse power --- Han Solo floors it.
Answer: Number one, we don't know what the top sublight speed of the Millennium Falcon is. Number two, we must reconsider the size issue. The Millennium Falcon is a tiny cargo vessal; the Enterprise is a Galaxy-class starship. If it "floored it," as you put it, it would most likely crash into an astoroid almost immediately.
Simply put, that entire list was complete idiocy from the beginning to end. Next time, I suggest you come up with a better argument.

In star trek...there is a guy named kevin uxbridge who was a member of a race called the doud (i think that was the name)....an extremely technologically advanced, savage race killed his wife on a raid of an outpost.....uxbridge killed the entire race of 50 billion with a single thought......that kinda makes the entire star wars universe seem a bit..well....dead....

Yes; Kevin Uxbridge was simply the name he took while he was in human form. He was a member of the Doud, a race similar to the Q, the Metrons, and the Organians in power, though considering his morals I seriously doubt he'd ever even consider destorying the Star Wars universe; remember, he was in so much pain after he reacted against the Hushnooks the way he did.

Not the Empire, not the Old Republic, not the Federation, nor Klingons, Romulans, etc. - not even the Borg - can stand up to the horror and devastation of...

...THE DALEKS...

...!...

good point...and that site about the empire beating the federation...well.....the writers of star trek tried to be realistic when they made the starships, weapons, etc.....they didn't jsut pull big numbers out of their asses....

Exactly. I've been to that site before; it clearly just caters to Star Wars fans. If you examine them from a non-biased viewpoint, Star Trek would beat Star Wars, pure and simple.

jedi pwn you

This is a hard one for me because I like both franchises. But Trek will always be my first love. So Trek will kick Wars Ass! Hooray for sci-fi jingoism!

And as far as planet busting machines go. Yeah, the Death Star was impressive. But Trek has its share of planet smashers and trashers, and Trek even created a planet (Genesis Device - Wrath of Khan). Admittedly, it was an unstable planet that tore itself apart, but still a planet. When did that ever happen in Wars?

Plus, they can time travel in Trek. Don't ever see that in the SW universe now, do ya? HA!

Trek rules!

There are only a few Jedi at the end of The Return of the Jedi. They would be eventually beaten by Federation Marines alone, if they, for whatever reason, chose to fight them.
I think most of you are missing the point. The Rebel Alliance would never want to fight against the Federation. Hell, the Federation represents the very ideals that the Rebel Alliance stands for.

The trouble with both franchises is that they're constrained to events within a galaxy, whereas the Dalek's usual battle plans call for the conquest of the Universe...and that's because of their sheer brute force, their ludicrously great numbers, and the fact that they're irrepressible, hyper-evolved lumps of pure hate encased in heavy-armor plating.

E-e-xterminaaaaaaate!!

Is this something real, or just something you came up with?

What, Daleks?

Yes. :rolleyes:

Pffft. Don't roll your eyes, that's rude.

Daleks. The evil cybernetic creatures who eventually dominate or destroy most of the 'Doctor Who' universe. On an old 'grudge match' 3-way battle between the Borg, the Cylons, and the Daleks, the Daleks won decisively.

But the Cylons were just punk-ass machines that flopped around like a fish when they got shot. Daleks are more ruthless than the Borg, but that's cause their British. Damn those Brits are some evil motehrfuckers!

My apologies Dobbs Town; I thought the issue my question was directed at was obvious.
The Borg pwn all other cybernetic life forms, British or not. I assure you, that grudge match was biased.

Dalek protocol runs something like,

1) Exterminate enemy forces.

2) Enslave populace and work to death exploiting local resources.

3) Destroy sun on way out of system for a laugh, trans-warp, repeat.

Won them the majority of galaxies in the universe. You gotta hand it to those giant salt-shakers from Skaro. For legless green blobs they sure can lay waste to spacetime when they put their creepy little minds to it.

But the Cylons were just punk-ass machines that flopped around like a fish when they got shot. Daleks are more ruthless than the Borg, but that's cause their British. Damn those Brits are some evil motehrfuckers!

How to defeat Daleks:

"Lift Under Repair Please Use Stairs"

How to defeat Daleks:

"Lift Under Repair Please Use Stairs"

Ah, but the Daleks eventually got around that through innovations (they're not the smartest aggressive warlike species, after all, just damned numerous) - they began specializing Dalek body design, with some Daleks capable of handling things like stairs.

Just saying...!

Meh, even so, I doubt the Daleks would truly have the power to conquer either the Imperial Navy or the Federation Fleet. I mean, we have no real basis for the power of the Draleks. It could be that the galaxies they took over were simply at about the level of oh, say, 21st century Earth.

Well, if you want to stick to the 'Star' franchises, okay then...

...When I walked out of the 'Phantom Menace', I turned to a friend and said, 'Y'know, if that's what the Old Republic was really like, these people frankly NEEDED a Galactic Empire. Any planet who democratically elects pubescent girls as their Queen should perhaps re-evaluate the current status quo' - could a regional governor really not handle the job just as capably?

I know who's side I'd've been on. Up the Empire!

Hmm... a ship that can kill a planet with one shot. Sound familiar

*cough: Death Star*

Yeah but that so called "Death Star" was taken down by a Moisture farmer boy from Tattoine.

The trouble with both franchises is that they're constrained to events within a galaxy, whereas the Dalek's usual battle plans call for the conquest of the Universe...and that's because of their sheer brute force, their ludicrously great numbers, and the fact that they're irrepressible, hyper-evolved lumps of pure hate encased in heavy-armor plating.

E-e-xterminaaaaaaate!!

Dude, the Daleks were the most super incompetant bad guys ever in the history of bad guys. (With the possible exception of cybermen).

The way to beat the Daleks is just kind of ignore them while running round in cirlcles. Eventually they always bugger their own plan - usually involving some large magnetic bomb to destroy the earth's "magnetic" core - up beyonf all possible hope of repair.

All I have to say is Trek vs Wars would be one hell of a cool movie!

Night all!

Federation ships, AFAIK, are designed for mainly exploration. Imperial Navy ships, however, are warships designed to scare the shit out of anyone who dares to oppose the Empire.

But that doesn't mean they can't be used for war.

Federation Star Ships are alot faster than SW capital ships.

As for the Falcon flying around an Starship, Did you ever notice that with a few expections in the show, I think like 5 times, Phasers do not miss. The targeting systems that ST ships is way beyond anything in the SW universe.

The fact that SW ships only have deflector sheilding would really suck for them, because it appears that a few shots near the sheild generators could bring them down.

And as I said, because they are fast they can dodge alot of inomming fire.

the debate is not over.... bump

Who TF is the Galactic Space Libert. Navy?!?!

What do you think is better? The starfighters from Star Wars, or Mobile Suits (from any Gundam series)?

It gets boring having 'starfighter vs starfighter' battles, how about 'Jedi SF vs M-1 Astray'?

Well, I needed a third party for those who don't want to be held down by the two-party system, which excludes non-star franchises. Libertarians are a third party, hence space Libertarians (the Galactic Space Libertarian Navy) will easily be the third party Space Opera to compete with Star Wars and Star Trek, never accomplishing much but usually stealing votes from the Trekkies.

As to your question, the mobile suits would win, because a Gundam is nigh indestructible and a TIE Fighter explodes if you sneeze near it.

The Empire.

i would win in a battle
no why because i have no idea
what the fuck you are talking about.

i just went ot the last page and wrote this
crap.

who fucking cares who will win star wars or star trek

Lasers are inferior to phasers. In that Star Trek TNG episode where the entire crew is brainwashed by some game, Worf says something along those lines when the game's creator comes in her ship. How turbo-lasers compare I don't know. But we can say all the little SW fighters (X-wings, Y-wings, TIE fighters, etc..)would be ineffective against Federation shielding. SW capital ship turbo-lasers are an unknown. But the fact that a Imp-Star has 60 of those guns makes me think they'd be comparable to the half dozen phaser banks a Galaxy-class ship has.
SW ships are faster though, no doubt. Voyager requires 70 years to cross from the Delta to Alpha quadrants. The Millenium Falcon is able to make the same journey in weeks.
ST seems to have faster computers, though. They're able to plot at faster-than-light course in a matter of seconds.
ST also has pretty common stealth (aka cloaking) technology while (according to Thrawn) it's expensive and rarely used in the SW universe.
I really have to give the prize to SW, though, because of their greater numbers. The Empire has an entire galaxy worth of resources to draw upon. As such, they have thousands of ships. According to Timothy Zahn's Specter of the Past, the Empire had 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers at its height. That's not counting Victory Star Destroyers or the dozens of other capital ships.
Star Wars would win. Sorry for the length.

Space Libertarians have a pretty good chance, because all of their taxes go into the military. However, the Empire has the Force... and they also have a tyrannical grip that's held by a huge military... and then the Federation has beaming, but every shot has to be directed by the captain of the ship... I'd say it's a toss-up.

Lasers are inferior to phasers. In that Star Trek TNG episode where the entire crew is brainwashed by some game, Worf says something along those lines when the game's creator comes in her ship. How turbo-lasers compare I don't know. But we can say all the little SW fighters (X-wings, Y-wings, TIE fighters, etc..)would be ineffective against Federation shielding. SW capital ship turbo-lasers are an unknown. But the fact that a Imp-Star has 60 of those guns makes me think they'd be comparable to the half dozen phaser banks a Galaxy-class ship has.
SW ships are faster though, no doubt. Voyager requires 70 years to cross from the Delta to Alpha quadrants. The Millenium Falcon is able to make the same journey in weeks.
ST seems to have faster computers, though. They're able to plot at faster-than-light course in a matter of seconds.
ST also has pretty common stealth (aka cloaking) technology while (according to Thrawn) it's expensive and rarely used in the SW universe.
I really have to give the prize to SW, though, because of their greater numbers. The Empire has an entire galaxy worth of resources to draw upon. As such, they have thousands of ships. According to Timothy Zahn's Specter of the Past, the Empire had 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers at its height. That's not counting Victory Star Destroyers or the dozens of other capital ships.
Star Wars would win. Sorry for the length.
As far as I know turoblasers, are just very very powerful lasers, they still use classic EM raditation, which means that they would either bounce off or disapeate when they hit ST sheilding.

Keep in mind that Transwarp can make that journy in a few hours, the feds are going to end up with it pretty soon IMO, so that advatage would go down the drain. And you can just jump into Warp, very few calculations are needed, ST ships just jump into warp, it only takes a second or two for the warp engines to charge.

ST- cloaking, hands down.

If it ever came to an invasion, the 4 empires, Federation, Klingons, Romulans would probably be able to hold them off, that at leastr 20,000 ships, considering the Federation only has about 8,000 ships, and it's not even a military nation.
Besides the empire would keep expanding, and would piss off the BORG or the dominion, and get there asses kicked.

And SW capital ships seem to have very very very weak sheilding, while ST ships generally have pretty strong sheilding.

And phasers are alot better and more effective than lasers, everyone knows that.

Galaxy-class starships alone have forteen phaser banks, not six. Also, we're forgetting one fact: According to Picard, who stated this in First Contact, the Federation alone is spread across eight thousand light years. Now, for a SW ship with hyperdrive, it's pretty easy to cover that much space with just a few thousands ships. However, for ST, it is not by far. And we must not forget that that's most likely a sphere of space, not just a straight line, since space is omnidirectional. Also, current fleet numbers for the Federation place their combined total, if ever gathered in one place--which would be difficult--at 250,000 starships. And let's not forget that the Klingons, the Breen, the Dominion, the Tholians, the Ferengi, the Romulans, the Gorn, and so many other races would also have a stake in the matter. Simply put, sheer numbers are not enough; I guarentee you that the Enterprise-D could go mano a mano with an Imperial Starship, those big ones. Even with their large numbers, the sheer power of the Federation's ships--which, by the way, they have far more powerful ships than the Galaxy class--would simply be too much for them. And no matter what the situation was, the Klingons would back up the Federation; they are very close allies. So you've got the combined power of the Federation and the Klingon Empire. The Imperials don't stand a chance.
One of the most powerful starships in the Federation arsenal is the Prometheus class ship; it's essentially built for war alone, and could take on ten Galaxy class ships at once and win, all by itself. And we've got a fleet of at least 200 of them by the end of the Dominion War.

i remember a ST: voyager episode when the borg created a weapon or probe that if fired at a planet or ship in could asminilate a planet in a mater of hours

but i would put my bet on star trek because of spieces 8472 there ship where like taking the piss and could destory planets in matter of seconds and since the death star is about the size of a moon that would be gone in seconds too

Ps: Since this is a Star Trek Vs Star Wars like thread you would have too say all star trek known races allied vs Star Wars Known races

ok, my opinion (and I love both franchises, but probably star wars more).

1) Phasers>Turbo Lasers
2) ST shields>SW sheilds (plus with the advanced targeting of the Federation Ships it would be easy to take out the shield generators of a Star Destroyer)
3) Small SW ships would be too weak to have an effect on the ST ships unless they can figure out the shield frequence for the ST ships like in the one episode of Next Generation, then they could possible cause havoc
4) ST ships are more manuverable than the large SW ships they would need to do damage to the ST ships
5) The Death Star trick only works once for the Empire, then a runabout or the ship from DS9 (the defiant?) takes it out.
6) ST leadership is 100,000,000 times better than the SW leadership

in summary, The Federation will lose the first battle where it's 5 Star Destroyers and the Death Star taking on one lost ship, after that the Federation will school the Empire

I'm voting for the side with the Force, and I'm voting for the side that would manufacture and use Dark Troopers.

Damn Straight.

as much as i'm a star trek fan, I think that star wars would win, because lets face it; the Federation are pacifists and there ships are built for exploration, the only on that wasn't is the Defaint, and even thats not too powerful

as much as i'm a star trek fan, I think that star wars would win, because lets face it; the Federation are pacifists and there ships are built for exploration, the only on that wasn't is the Defaint, and even thats not too powerful
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Look to the posts before you for why.

Sad to say but Starfleet would probably win. Nobody can beat the way they can cheesily repolarize the unexplainable gadget of the moment to save the day. Both Star Wars and Star Trek rely on their unmistakable luck and coincidence to save the day, but in the Star Wars universe they never repolarize anything to save the Universe. That kind of engineering is just too much to deal with for anyone. I mean let’s face it the munchkin universe of Star Trek is too much for anyone to compete with. On the other hand, no doubt the jedi masters would sense the complexities of the plots against them and send in a few jedis to go nutty in the Star Trek warp cores at a critical moment.

Really though, I think that leaving the B5 universe out of this is shameful. Those Shadows and Vorlons would make pâté out of all of them.

The Bruce

Bah Star Treak poons all.

Maybe if you understood the science behind it, it would make sense. Then again, it is beyond us by three hundred years.
And again, the Jedi would never fight the Federation. They would never have a reason to. In fact, the only real way that this would happen would be some form of wormhole that links the two galaxies and the Imperial Armada invades our galaxy.

Another thing I've gotta put as a SW advantage is surprise. Look at the different interstellar drives of the opposing parties.
ST uses warp drive. As I understand it, it warps space around the ship enabling it to go faster than light. Since it's warping space, it's easily seen on sensors. That means if the Feds attack a system, the defenders have warning while the attackers are still lightyears away.
SW uses hyperdrive. As I understand that, it slips the ship into an alternate space that enables it to go faster than light. That makes the ship undetectible while in transit. An attacking SW force can pop into a system with no warning.

Another thing I've gotta put as a SW advantage is surprise. Look at the different interstellar drives of the opposing parties.
ST uses warp drive. As I understand it, it warps space around the ship enabling it to go faster than light. Since it's warping space, it's easily seen on sensors. That means if the Feds attack a system, the defenders have warning while the attackers are still lightyears away.
SW uses hyperdrive. As I understand that, it slips the ship into an alternate space that enables it to go faster than light. That makes the ship undetectible while in transit. An attacking SW force can pop into a system with no warning.
Actually, no. Hyperdrive is simply another name for transwarp drive. Warp engines also send you into another space in transit, known as subspace. However, subspace has it's own form of a speed limit in the sense that you cannot travel beyond it. It's arbitrarily known as Warp Ten.

And there's another factor nobody mentioned. Who said the Empire would play fair? They'd probably hit Starfleet while it was still at Enterprise-era technology and wipe the floor with them. You don't give your opponents a chance to hold their own.

As for belittling the Force, Timothy Zahn's New Republic Trilogy stated that Palpatine micromanaged the entire Imperial armed forces with his Force powers, and that everything fell apart at Endor when he got thrown down the reactor shaft. Imagine that power in a mortal much more focused on specific targets.

First off, I must say I love the conversation.
Second, where do you guys get most of your info? Honestly, I stopped following the little details of Star Trek soon after DS9's 2nd season.

And there's another factor nobody mentioned. Who said the Empire would play fair? They'd probably hit Starfleet while it was still at Enterprise-era technology and wipe the floor with them. You don't give your opponents a chance to hold their own.
We're saying for the sake of argument that the wormhole doesn't connect the two until after the events of Nemisis.
As for the details, this is knowledge that is just picked up by watching all of the material.

*slams bump button*

I would like to bring in a new choice. The Warhammer 40k universe. It would be over for both starwars and startrek.

Read up on it and you will agree.

I don't know if someone mentioned this and I missed it or not, but factor in that the Empire would almost asurredly(sp) seek alliances with the Romulans and the Klingons. Darth Vader could easily win the respect of the Klingons in a fight, cutting that little toy weapon of thiers in half. Granted that this would be an uneasy alliance of the three, but it is certainly a possibility. Given those alliances and the Empire's tactic of swarming an enemy or suckering an enemy into a swarm, I think I have to take Empire in a blood bath.

Now, granted-this would mean that the Rebel Alliance is equally as inclined to fight with the Federation, they wouldn't have enough time to co-ordinate before the onslaught, unless a Rebel can get wind of the invasion and sneak past to warn the Federation, and then they better have some killer intellegence or it'll just prolong the fighting. Though a prolonged fight favors the Federation/Rebel Alliance side....hmmm....

I don't know if someone mentioned this and I missed it or not, but factor in that the Empire would almost asurredly(sp) seek alliances with the Romulans and the Klingons. Darth Vader could easily win the respect of the Klingons in a fight, cutting that little toy weapon of thiers in half. Granted that this would be an uneasy alliance of the three, but it is certainly a possibility. Given those alliances and the Empire's tactic of swarming an enemy or suckering an enemy into a swarm, I think I have to take Empire in a blood bath.

Now, granted-this would mean that the Rebel Alliance is equally as inclined to fight with the Federation, they wouldn't have enough time to co-ordinate before the onslaught, unless a Rebel can get wind of the invasion and sneak past to warn the Federation, and then they better have some killer intellegence or it'll just prolong the fighting. Though a prolonged fight favors the Federation/Rebel Alliance side....hmmm....
Not hardly; the Klingons are our solid allies, and would not betray us. The dispute shortly before the Dominion War was caused by the Founders. However, you may be correct in that the Empire would seek an alliance with the Romulans, but it wouldn't go very far; the Romulans may be betrayers, but they aren't stupid. Plus, with the way things were going right after the events in Nemisis, the Romulans would almost assuredly be on the side of the Federation.

Not hardly; the Klingons are our solid allies, and would not betray us. The dispute shortly before the Dominion War was caused by the Founders. However, you may be correct in that the Empire would seek an alliance with the Romulans, but it wouldn't go very far; the Romulans may be betrayers, but they aren't stupid. Plus, with the way things were going right after the events in Nemisis, the Romulans would almost assuredly be on the side of the Federation.
I haven't seen Nemisis, so I can't really comment. I think that the Klingons could be turned, they're pretty touchy.

Bah! Star Trek. Star Wars. Feh!



Predator wins.

No, especially not after the Dominion War. After that, the Klingons are lead by General cum Chancellor Martok, remember? He would support the Federation no matter what.

An Excalibur class (Starfleet ship) would wipe the floor with anything the Imperial Navy's got.

No, especially not after the Dominion War. After that, the Klingons are lead by General cum Chancellor Martok, remember? He would support the Federation no matter what.
Until Vader challenges him to a fight for honor or something and crushes his throat, all the while seeding and funding the unrest in the Klingon empire that eventually results in a coup that gets ingited by the choking thing....

Until Vader challenges him to a fight for honor or something and crushes his throat, all the while seeding and funding the unrest in the Klingon empire that eventually results in a coup that gets ingited by the choking thing....
It would never happen. First, you obviously don't understand Klingon culture that well; fights for honor like that don't happen. Second, Martok isn't stupid. He would lead his fleets, yes, but never challenge Vader directly like that.

An Excalibur class (Starfleet ship) would wipe the floor with anything the Imperial Navy's got.
There is the Death Star, and the other problem is the Federation's only got, like what? two, three of those? Wave after wave will eventually take care of that.

Oh, please; you don't understand the Federation fleet at all, nevermind the fact that the Death Star would be easy to destroy. Try reading all of the posts before yours, please.
And don't take offense at how I'm phrasing this; I don't mean any. ^_^

It would never happen. First, you obviously don't understand Klingon culture that well; fights for honor like that don't happen. Second, Martok isn't stupid. He would lead his fleets, yes, but never challenge Vader directly like that.
I can certainly cop to a bit of ignorance, but it seems to me that everytime I see the Klingons they're in a knife fight over honor. It's like aliens spawned from The West Side Story. Anyway....

I think they would be all civil for a while, mutually benificial all the while they (the Empire I'm talking about here) starts feeding the unrest with secret supplying, trade and even a few well placed Jedi mind tricks....then before you know it there is a person to person conflict and BAM someone's gotta answer fo' what they said and just like that, we get the choking...

Well, I do know this: if there is a fight, it's the Empire versus everyone else, including the Rebel Alliance and the Jedi. The Jedi would never fight the Federation; they both stand for the same ideals. That's something people who voted for Star Wars seem to forget.

Oh, please; you don't understand the Federation fleet at all, nevermind the fact that the Death Star would be easy to destroy. Try reading all of the posts before yours, please.
And don't take offense at how I'm phrasing this; I don't mean any. ^_^
See now, the Death Star doesn't fly alone. So while they are dedicating those few (three? Two?) ships the rest of the fleet is on it. Swarmed with fighters, I'm tellin' ya...

Well, I do know this: if there is a fight, it's the Empire versus everyone else, including the Rebel Alliance and the Jedi. The Jedi would never fight the Federation; they both stand for the same ideals. That's something people who voted for Star Wars seem to forget.
Here's where I get a little off-I don't read the books so I'm just taking the Empire at begining of Star Wars (ep. 4, the original) so they only have the handful of Jedis all either untrained or in seclusion to work with on the Rebel Alliance side, and the Rebel Alliance barely hanging on so could really manage much assistance.

Listen people I'm a tech and a sci fi fan, but you guys are like turbo geeks. I bet the half of you who are pulling for Star Fleet can speak Klingon.

Isn't it time for the Star Wars geeks and the Star Trek geeks to come together. Must you forever more battle your imaginary space fleets on every forum on the internet. Can't we all just get along. :fluffle:

True, and since we're following from right before the final events in Return of the Jedi and after the events in Nemisis...
Anyways, you need to learn some facts about the Federation fleet. The combined fleet total, if ever gathered in one place, is approximately 250,000 ships. Plus, we have far more powerful ships than the Excelsior class; that's actually a century old model.

I believe that you are all missing one very important point:
Who woudl win?
The wookies?
The ewoks?
The gungans?
or....
The French?

True, and since we're following from right before the final events in Return of the Jedi and after the events in Nemisis...
Anyways, you need to learn some facts about the Federation fleet. The combined fleet total, if ever gathered in one place, is approximately 250,000 ships. Plus, we have far more powerful ships than the Excelsior class; that's actually a century old model.
But see, thats where the Empire has the advantage-as someone pointed out the Trek universe tries to be accountable and grounded(ish). Star Wars is pure fantasy non-sense, so the numbers of craft and the variations are a lot more fantastic ("Fill the skys" type of stuff) And this is where Star Wars really has an advantage. The pure BS factor...

For example, let's take the Prometheus class ship: one of those ships alone could easily take on ten Romulan Warbirds and win, and take almost no damage, too. A fleet of those, which we have a fleet of at least 250 by the end of the Dominion War, would be able to smash flat the Death Star and ships around it. Easily.
Quite clearly, Star Trek is militarily superiour to Star Wars. After all, Star Wars is still using lasers, which will pretty much just dissapate against the shields of Federation starships.

Ive had this debate with friends many a time, And Star Trek would win... Deathstar? That would be part of the Borg very easilly, They will adapt to anything they throw at the Borg... Face it, Star Trek will own Star Wars ANYDAY

Anyways, you need to learn some facts about the Federation fleet. The combined fleet total, if ever gathered in one place, is approximately 250,000 ships.

Not to dispute you, but where are you getting this 250,000 number?
How many of these 250,000 are actually capable of fighting, and not transports or runabouts or shuttles?
At Wolf 359, Starfleet only had about 40 ships waiting for the Borg cube. They lost 39, and that was considered a major loss for the Federation. In Star Wars, a loss of that many capital ships would not be a major loss.

Not to dispute you, but where are you getting this 250,000 number?
How many of these 250,000 are actually capable of fighting, and not transports or runabouts or shuttles?
At Wolf 359, Starfleet only had about 40 ships waiting for the Borg cube. They lost 39, and that was considered a major loss for the Federation. In Star Wars, a loss of that many capital ships would not be a major loss.
That's the stated total fleet number, stated by Admiral Ross in an episode of Deep Space Nine. Yes, forty was a major loss then because the fleet is so spread out. The Federation is spread across a sphere of eight thousand light years; they need a huge fleet to be able to patrol and explore the entirety of it, since warp engines are so slow that they would not allow for a smaller fleet to patrol that entire area of space. The thing is, it would be very difficult for the entire fleet to gather together in one place because of this.
And most of them are capable ships, not to mention that fleet of Prometheus class ships is about all we'd need, considering how powerful they are. Especially if they added the ablative armor and transphasic torpedoes from the final episode of Voyager.

gotta say the Feds would win. i'm not sure what it is but the sense of refined unity of the Federation makes me think they'd win over those dastardly Imperial bastards...kidding,kidding! i love star wars dearly but lucas has nearly runied it for me with the latest, thus, it's a Trekkie world for me!

As stated in the posts above, the Prometheus can run over any Imperial Ship.

Takeing SW vs ST from the last of the two prospective movies, I would say it would be hard to calculate. Although that would be a negitive to the Imperial Navy, since at the end of that war, they were on the run.

I favor the catching up of timelines, taking Star Wars and advanceing it up to the same time point as Star Wars. Lasers and Turbo lasers would be completely gone, and I would say something like phasers and turbophasers would replace them, proton torpedoes would be gone with something like a quantom torpeodo or beyond. The Star Wars Navy woul have its quantom armor built up by this point, something that the "StarCrusher" had when it would wipe out whole solar systems and then sit there as the star supernovaed and wouldn't be harmed, I do believe that even the most advanced Fed ship couldn't do that.
Another point is from the solar system that Han Solo is from is an artifically made one. Every planet has an engine on it that can move it at hyperspace, and one of the planets was an artifically in every way. When you used these planets together, you could stop all faster then light travel because it created a solar system wide gravity well. Another thing it could do was send a blast in hyperspace that could hit anything in the galaxy and could take out entire solar systems with one shot. This would also be in the hands of SW.
Dark Jedi would be another factor to bring in, they were being trained up, at a rather quick rate, so you would have an army of Dark Jedi as well. Ones that can see into the future, fight with precognition, can suck life energies from people with a thought, and shoot pure energy from their hands. So hand to hand combat would be theirs, and their piloting would be superb.

So, in this view of things, the "Imperial Navy" would show up and pop off a couple of stars, cauing massive panic and people would send teams to figure out what happened. As the science vessals were sent out they would be escorted by military ships, and they would get some of them would be caught in the next wave of solar explosions. At that point ST would see it as an invasion and start to call up their forces, and then Sol would be destroyed, and along with it Earth. And that would deal a crushing blow to the Fed, because their capitol would be destroyed, something that they had thrown everying in front of to protect from the borg. There moral would be broken, and they would attack out of anger/vengence and such, but not as a unified force, where as the SW common soldier would know no fear due to Force mind tricks, so they would keep a sharp deadly mind towards their path of vicotry.

On the subject of Cloaking devices, the jedi would be able to "feel" them and be able to target them, kinda like in Nemisis, when Deanna used her telepathic powers to shoot at the ship that was cloaked, only a lot faster and precise.

Also, The Imperal Navy enjoys using all sorts of nasties. They invented a cybervirus that was like little robots, much like nanobots, that would go through its host and destroy it, and nothing they could do to it could effect it, until the Jedi stepped in and had to use the force to remove the "illness" Nanobot by nanobot. I'm sure that the ST people would have simalr things to use, but they would be forbidden to.

So based on my observations, I would keep my vote for Star Wars.

You people forgot my favorite...Stargate SG-1/Atlantis

http://www.joorl.com/Stargate/The_Stargate.jpg

Why do people forget the Sith? After Palpatine came to power, he took all the force-sensitive children he could find to turn them into Sith warriors. And aside from Luke and Kenobi and Yoda, there aren't any Jedi during the Empire until after ROTJ. They either convert or die. Therefore, no Jedi will be alive enough to side with the Federation, except for Luke, and he doesn't count because he'll be busy writing his gospel.

(btw, unrelated true story: Luke used to be my favorite book of the Bible because I thought it was written by Luke Skywalker.)

Even if we ignore the fact that the Empire has superior weapons, shields, FTL travel, ect. and simply assumed they were equal or lesser then Federation ships, the Empire would still win.

The Empire had about 60% of the second Death Star complete by the Return of the Jedi, which took place after Empire Strikes back with a time period of six months in between. Take your calculators out class, as the DSII had a total diameter of 900 kilometers, which had it been completed in another three months translates into a volume of 3.8E17 m³.

Now take a Galaxy-class starship, like our old faithful Enterprise. Assuming for a moment it was just a great big block 641x470x145 meters for ease of calculation, it would have a volume of 6.5E6 m³.

Yes people, that's right, in the time it would've taken the Empire to build a giant moon-sized planet-busting battle station it could've built the equivalent of FIFTY BILLION Galaxy starships. And this was going on in secret while keeping its normal fleet operations across a million worlds in working order. Even if your average Star Destroyer had friggin pea shooters for weapons, they would utterly crush the Star Trek galaxy with sheer numbers.

Go Nerds! :D :D :D