NationStates Jolt Archive

Last week, Moveon.org sparked a controversy when it sent an email out to its massive list-serve saying it had a message for what it called the "professional election losers" who run the Democratic Party. Pointing to the $300 million raised by MoveOn and other individual contributors, the group's founder Eli Pariser said of the Democratic party, "We bought it, we own it, we're going to take it back." The email targeted outgoing Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe as a tool of corporate donors who alienated both traditional and progressive Democrats. The email charged that, for years, the party has been led by elite Washington insiders who are closer to corporate lobbyists than they are to the Democratic base

Meanwhile, Former Vermont Governor Howard Dean has sparked an impassioned debate by announcing his intention to run for chair of the powerful Democratic National Committee. This weekend Dean and other prospective candidates vying for the position will speak at a Democratic Party event in Orlando, Florida.

What direction do you think the Democratic Party should take from here on?

Grab center and religious moderates. There's plenty of internal discontent within the GOP to exploit. Forget about pandering to atheists and other non-christian elements ( a paltry 30 % of the vote ). I mean, what can they do? Vote for Peroutka?

Definitely not Dean. If the DNC is smart, it would at least consider asking McCain in...

Grab center and religious moderates. There's plenty of internal discontent within the GOP to exploit. Forget about pandering to atheists and other non-christian elements ( a paltry 30 % of the vote ). I mean, what can they do? Vote for Peroutka?

Definitely not Dean. If the DNC is smart, it would at least consider asking McCain in...
Why not Dean?

Why not Dean?

Because he is to the left of Clinton. The sixties are over, and liberals are just about as welcome in American mainstream politics as a Rabbi at a KKK-rally.

Because he is to the left of Clinton. The sixties are over, and liberals are just about as welcome in American mainstream politics as a Rabbi at a KKK-rally.
Spoken like a true righty who hasn't even read a word about him. You are aware that Dean is a centrist, right?

Grab center and religious moderates. There's plenty of internal discontent within the GOP to exploit. Forget about pandering to atheists and other non-christian elements ( a paltry 30 % of the vote ). I mean, what can they do? Vote for Peroutka?

Definitely not Dean. If the DNC is smart, it would at least consider asking McCain in...

McCain's not interested. He's a repub and continues to say he is.

Grab center and religious moderates. There's plenty of internal discontent within the GOP to exploit. Forget about pandering to atheists and other non-christian elements ( a paltry 30 % of the vote ). I mean, what can they do? Vote for Peroutka?

Definitely not Dean. If the DNC is smart, it would at least consider asking McCain in...

Newsflash: McCain is a moderate republican, and intends to stay that way.

Definitely not Dean. If the DNC is smart, it would at least consider asking McCain in...
Except for the fact that he's a conservative Republican?

Grab center and religious moderates. There's plenty of internal discontent within the GOP to exploit. Forget about pandering to atheists and other non-christian elements ( a paltry 30 % of the vote ). I mean, what can they do? Vote for Peroutka?

Definitely not Dean. If the DNC is smart, it would at least consider asking McCain in...
McCain would never go dem-hes a self serving waffle who likes to play both sides--Dean is the first person to ever have set the dem party on fire and hes the most logical choice with the most mass appeal but the dems blew it by choosing Kerry who campaigned like a cadaver-the dems need to pander more to the moveon.org types since these are the people who put out

Spoken like a true righty who hasn't even read a word about him. You are aware that Dean is a centrist, right?


YEAH!!!! He'd be a centrist.... maybe in Spain or something.

No way he's going to score in FoxWorld, which, for your information, is about 60% of the continental States.

Because he is to the left of Clinton. The sixties are over, and liberals are just about as welcome in American mainstream politics as a Rabbi at a KKK-rally.
No exaggeration, huh? Liberals make up almost half the USA. Why do you think all liberals are hippies?

Because he is to the left of Clinton. The sixties are over, and liberals are just about as welcome in American mainstream politics as a Rabbi at a KKK-rally.
1000% wrong---the dems lose everytime they try to act like republican lite. Its the corporate wing of the dem party that weakened the base not the liberal wing

McCain <is> a self serving waffle who likes to play both sides.

Now that's exactly why he'd make a great candidate.

YEAH!!!! He'd be a centrist.... maybe in Spain or something.

No way he's going to score in FoxWorld, which, for your information, is about 60% of the continental States.
Bullshit--foxnews lies only appeal to red state morons in the slave states

1000% wrong---the dems lose everytime they try to act like republican lite. Its the corporate wing of the dem party that weakened the base not the liberal wing

I'd have to agree with you. Even though I'm a republican, the dems trying to go more centrist would result in two parties that are basically the same.

Now that's exactly why he'd make a great candidate.
but in these times that strategy wont work-the dems need hardcore militants to challenge the extremist administration in power now- this isnt a time for waffles

No exaggeration, huh? Liberals make up almost half the USA. Why do you think all liberals are hippies?
Self-Defined liberals made up 21% of the 2004 vote.

but in these times that strategy wont work-the dems need hardcore militants to challenge the extremist administration in power now- this isnt a time for waffles

Extremist? Hardly. Conservative? A little, yes.

YEAH!!!! He'd be a centrist.... maybe in Spain or something.

No way he's going to score in FoxWorld, which, for your information, is about 60% of the continental States.
I'm sure. Look at his record as Governor of Vermont.

I'd have to agree with you. Even though I'm a republican, the dems trying to go more centrist would result in two parties that are basically the same.
exactly--the GOP can go to the Right of Hitler but the dems have to keep going centrist? does that make any sense? not only will that strategy continue to push the center to the right but its a losing one for dems cause the bottom line is voters will vote for the people that take powerful stands not the ones who engage in wormy cynical strategys like selling out your values to appear more centrist

Me a righty? Piffle.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.72

but in these times that strategy wont work-the dems need hardcore militants to challenge the extremist administration in power now- this isnt a time for waffles


Crap. The more extreme the Government, the more bennies are to be gained by going pure lily-white centrist.

Extremist? Hardly. Conservative? A little, yes.
Bush is pushing a toxic brew of neo conservative corparate facism mixed with theocracy

Crap. The more extreme the Government, the more bennies are to be gained by going pure lily-white centrist.
it all depends on how you want to define the center

Bullshit--foxnews lies only appeal to red state morons in the slave states


Very true. And quite effectively so, wouldn't you agree? So, how do you get the red state morons in the slave states to vote for you?

Very true. And quite effectively so, wouldn't you agree? So, how do you get the red state morons in the slave states to vote for you?
either 1) secede 2) in those unevolved states ruled by fear and religious ignorance run populist centrist types that appeal to bread and butter issues and in the evolved and worldly blue states run strongly forward thinking progressive types who care about the people who matter and the issues that empower but also we need to also liberate the media from neoconservative terrorists so that they cant effectively keep demonizing reformers and distorting the issues--we need a powerful countervoice to Foxnews lies and Hate radio

Bush is pushing a toxic brew of neo conservative corparate facism mixed with theocracy

K. Now prove it.

K. Now prove it.
since Ive been on NS Ive been deated after posting article after article proving it

The democrats need alot of work. It may be best to just disband and form a new party.

since Ive been on NS Ive been deated after posting article after article proving it

Exactly. Prove it.

Yes, Bush is quite the conservative. However, he's nowhere near fascist. Do you see concentration camps full of people who aren't Christians? Do you see people arrested for speaking their minds about Bush? I think not.

either 1) secede 2) in those unevolved states ruled by fear and religious ignorance run populist centrist types that appeal to bread and butter issues and in the evolved and worldly blue states run strongly forward thinking progressive types who care about the people who matter and the issues that empower but also we need to also liberate the media from neoconservative terrorists so that they cant effectively keep demonizing reformers and distorting the issues--we need a powerful countervoice to Foxnews lies and Hate radio


I see. *shrugs* populist centrist types. Did I mention John McCain?

I see. *shrugs* populist centrist types. Did I mention John McCain?

No. McCain is a moderate republican. Sure, he likes to play both sides but he would never abandon his own party just to run for president. Besides, it's likely he'll be a republican candidate.

No. McCain is a moderate republican. Sure, he likes to play both sides but he would never abandon his own party just to run for president. Besides, it's likely he'll be a republican candidate.


It depends on how likely, is it not? One can ask him...

No... I don't see America's religious right putting up with him.

Do you see people arrested for speaking their minds about Bush? I think not.

Yes, you get arrested and put on the terrorist list. This in turn will keep you from getting many jobs, and will be a hassle for you for the rest of your life.

Yes, you get arrested and put on the terrorist list. This in turn will keep you from getting many jobs, and will be a hassle for you for the rest of your life.

Name one person in America who was arrested and put on a terrorist list, just because they spoke out against the President. Can you name one?

Name one person in America who was arrested and put on a terrorist list, just because they spoke out against the President. Can you name one?

No, he can't because it didn't happen...

Hillary clinton even "said" that the DNC needs to move more to the center....dean will never win....he is too far to the left to ever get any "red" state (and, however sad it may be, the scream forever makes him look like a dumbass)....Hillary, if she continiues in the direction she is going, and does not waver, would be a good cantidate.....

What about zell miller....i've never seen him alienate anyone.....

Yes, you get arrested and put on the terrorist list. This in turn will keep you from getting many jobs, and will be a hassle for you for the rest of your life.
Wild, unfounded allegations! Prove it! Either shut up with this stupidity or PROVE it! Put your money where your mouth is.

We need to move to the left. Offer a vision of a new society, not just new policies. Dean is no where close to my favorite person (Centrist, has chronic both-feet-in-mouth disease) but he's the best man for the job with a chance of getting it.

We also need to be more comfortable with religious metaphor. Not bring religion into politics per se, but, for example, some of Dennis Kucinich's speaches.

That's a leading poll if I ever saw one...

I'm more wondering about the "take it back" part. When did the moveon.org folks purchase the DNC? I don't remember this transaction. And spell the word fascist correctly.

Kind of a weighted question. I mean only the first answer is at all viable.

I mean you've got. Purge the evil ones, make ourselves weaker, lose, and I am evil.

The democrats need alot of work. It may be best to just disband and form a new party.
you might be right

Exactly. Prove it.

Yes, Bush is quite the conservative. However, he's nowhere near fascist. Do you see concentration camps full of people who aren't Christians? Do you see people arrested for speaking their minds about Bush? I think not.
Bush is a blatent facist and yes I do see people getting arrested for speaking their minds--and the concentration camps are already built and waiten

I see. *shrugs* populist centrist types. Did I mention John McCain?
McCain had his chance and blew it

McCain had his chance and blew it


As a Dem candidate?

It depends on how likely, is it not? One can ask him...

No... I don't see America's religious right putting up with him.
Bush already beat McCain by smearing him too the exact same way he smeared Kerry

Fifth option: Stop disenfranchisement. They shouldn't ridicule and criticize Greens and others for voting who they want, and then expect them to vote Democrat.

Bush is a blatent facist and yes I do see people getting arrested for speaking their minds--and the concentration camps are already built and waiten

He's nowhere near fascist. And, if concentration camps are built, prove it.

Name one person in America who was arrested and put on a terrorist list, just because they spoke out against the President. Can you name one?
thousands of people have been arrested just for speaking out against Bush and people who go to protests are put on lists

He's nowhere near fascist. And, if concentration camps are built, prove it.


Gitmo.

Gitmo.

hahahahah. Is Bush putting people in his own country in Gitmo? I think not. They're prisoners of war. What the hell do you expect us to do, give them candy and flowers?

No, he can't because it didn't happen...

Hillary clinton even "said" that the DNC needs to move more to the center....dean will never win....he is too far to the left to ever get any "red" state (and, however sad it may be, the scream forever makes him look like a dumbass)....Hillary, if she continiues in the direction she is going, and does not waver, would be a good cantidate.....

What about zell miller....i've never seen him alienate anyone.....
it did too happen and is still happening and Hillary is out of touch her advice to move to the center is what caused republicans to hijack the govt during his husbands presidency and you saying that the senile Zell miller never offended anyone qualifies you as being certifiably insane

thousands of people have been arrested just for speaking out against Bush and people who go to protests are put on lists

Thousands of people have been arrested for violently speaking out against Bush. It's called disturbance of the peace. Doesn't matter what they are for or against, it matters how they carry out their demonstration. Prove that they are put on lists. Can you produce any of these lists? I don't think so.

hahahahah. Is Bush putting people in his own country in Gitmo? I think not. They're prisoners of war. What the hell do you expect us to do, give them candy and flowers?

According to Rummy and Dubya they AIN'T prisoners of war.
And if they were... you'd have to treat them in strict accordance with the Geneva rules.

Thousands of people have been arrested for violently speaking out against Bush. It's called disturbance of the peace. Doesn't matter what they are for or against, it matters how they carry out their demonstration. Prove that they are put on lists. Can you produce any of these lists? I don't think so.What are you worried about? You support him, so you'd be safe either way. ;)

Thousands of people have been arrested for violently speaking out against Bush. It's called disturbance of the peace. Doesn't matter what they are for or against, it matters how they carry out their demonstration. Prove that they are put on lists. Can you produce any of these lists? I don't think so.


How can you speak violently?
Proof it. Twit.

What are you worried about? You support him, so you'd be safe either way. ;)

I'm not worrying. ;)

I'm just destroying every thread of his arguement.

How can you speak violently?
Proof it. Twit.

:rolleyes: Come on. Quit taking me so literally. Violent demonstration against Bush is what I mean. Oh, and don't insult me.

:rolleyes: Come on. Quit taking me so literally. Violent demonstration against Bush is what I mean. Oh, and don't insult me.


Prove that they did.
Put up or shut up.
And don't presume to give me orders.
Oh, and don't forget to refer to me as votre haute puissance. :p

hahahahah. Is Bush putting people in his own country in Gitmo? I think not. They're prisoners of war. What the hell do you expect us to do, give them candy and flowers?

being a US citizen is no protection against the unlawful enemy combatant status. Look at Hamdi, look at Padilla.

Prove that they did.
Put up or shut up.
And don't presume to give me orders.
Oh, and don't forget to refer to me as votre haute puissance. :p

I'm not giving you orders. It's just that as soon as someone insults, I'm done, because it would be a waste of my time to continue, as someone who will insult me is obviously not mature enough to carry on adecent conversation.

I'm not giving you orders. It's just that as soon as someone insults, I'm done, because it would be a waste of my time to continue, as someone who will insult me is obviously not mature enough to carry on adecent conversation.

It was OBVIOUSLY a-decent the moment you tried to justify Gitmo.

It was OBVIOUSLY a-decent the moment you tried to justify Gitmo.

I never said it could be justified. I think it's a necessary evil at this point.

I never said it could be justified. I think it's a necessary evil at this point.


So, it is a necessary but unjustifiable evil to break the Geneva Convention?

What about zell miller....i've never seen him alienate anyone.....
Perhaps I'm wrong, but didn't he alienate the entire Democratic Party by turning on them by keynoting the Republican National Convention in New York?

Here's the biggest reason the "centrism" of the DLC has been a disaster for the Democratic party. When your rhetoric--and I'm not talking about policy here, I'm talking about rhetoric--is that of a toned down version of the other party's ideology, you lose any claim to the rightness of your own policy ideas. You concede that the other party is mostly right on issues and that the only difference between the two of you are of style rather than substance.

But there are real, substantive differences between the Democratic and Republican parties when it comes to policy. The Republican party wants to get rid of social security, and indeed, most, if not all federal social programs. The current Republican party wants to remove the barriers between church and state, reintroduce christian domination of everyday life, and insert the government into our personal lives to an extent not seen in decades. The Democratic party is opposed to all those things, but if we act as concessionists, if we act like we're the same then we're saying that they're right on these issues, and in my opinion, they aren't.

We've got to make that clear. So far, Dean is the only one to make that point powerfully and regularly, and if the DNC selects a chairman that's not a reformer and not willing to man up and make those differences clear, then they've lost me as a donor. I'll give to Democracy for America and other 527s instead.

He's nowhere near fascist. And, if concentration camps are built, prove it.
hes a corporate facist scumbag and someone already provided the links to the concentration camps weeks ago

hahahahah. Is Bush putting people in his own country in Gitmo? I think not. They're prisoners of war. What the hell do you expect us to do, give them candy and flowers?
does the name Jose Padilla ring a bell?

Thousands of people have been arrested for violently speaking out against Bush. It's called disturbance of the peace. Doesn't matter what they are for or against, it matters how they carry out their demonstration. Prove that they are put on lists. Can you produce any of these lists? I don't think so.
thats a foxnews lie--thousands of PEACEFUL people were arrested speaking out against the Dictator and no I cant provide the lists cause Im not the director of Homeland Security

I'm not worrying. ;)

I'm just destroying every thread of his arguement.
your brainwashed by the hate media

For Skapedroe :headbang:

I have reported you to the Department of Homeland Security. Expect the knock in the night on your door any day now. They have a really really nice place for you, a room of your very own, with white padded walls, floors and a special suit to wear so you don't hurt yourself. :fluffle:

Spoken like a true righty who hasn't even read a word about him. You are aware that Dean is a centrist, right?
Dean a centrist? LOL!!!

Dean's to the center, only when compared to the Moveon.org crowd! And not even then!

Thanks for a good laugh, but you have made me ruin a perfectly good keyboard!

Last week, Moveon.org sparked a controversy when it sent an email out to its massive list-serve saying it had a message for what it called the "professional election losers" who run the Democratic Party. Pointing to the $300 million raised by MoveOn and other individual contributors, the group's founder Eli Pariser said of the Democratic party, "We bought it, we own it, we're going to take it back." The email targeted outgoing Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe as a tool of corporate donors who alienated both traditional and progressive Democrats. The email charged that, for years, the party has been led by elite Washington insiders who are closer to corporate lobbyists than they are to the Democratic base

Meanwhile, Former Vermont Governor Howard Dean has sparked an impassioned debate by announcing his intention to run for chair of the powerful Democratic National Committee. This weekend Dean and other prospective candidates vying for the position will speak at a Democratic Party event in Orlando, Florida.

What direction do you think the Democratic Party should take from here on?

They need to get rid of their reputation as a party of paranoia, hysteria, and irresponsible accusations. That starts with people like you.

Bullshit--foxnews lies only appeal to red state morons in the slave states

And this is exactly the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that's hurting your party. You wonder where the accusations of liberal elitism come from? It's all right here... the arrogant assumption that people vote differently than you only because they don't have the intellectual capacity to see things your way. Well, guess what? Calling people "morons" is not going to win you a single vote. It's just a self-congratulatory circle-jerk, ironic considering that after the last election you have little to congratulate yourselves on, and it's going to kill your party if it doesn't stop.

either 1) secede 2) in those [b]unevolved states ruled by fear and religious ignorance run populist centrist types that appeal to bread and butter issues and in the evolved and worldly blue states run strongly forward thinking progressive types who care about the people who matter and the issues that empower but also we need to also liberate the media from neoconservative terrorists so that they cant effectively keep demonizing reformers and distorting the issues--we need a powerful countervoice to Foxnews lies and Hate radio

More of the same. I'm the last person in the world to characterize all liberals as elitists, but you, as an individual, fit the bill perfectly. The people in these states are at the very least equal to you in terms of raw intellectual capacity, and every one of your posts that I've ever read indicates that most of them are a good deal more intelligent than you. For all your self-proclaimed superiority, you are clearly unable to distinguish rational debate from empty rhetoric. I myself have tried to get you to comprehend this difference on several occasions, but you either didn't understand or didn't give a shit. Neither of these says much for you as a "forward thinking progressive."

Do not ignore this post. Do not dismiss it as "hate speech" or "fascist lies" or any of the other convenient, meaningless terms I know you'd love to apply to it. I've just told you, in a nutshell, what's wrong with your approach and why you and people like you are one of the biggest obstacles the DNP needs to overcome. You're CS Lewis's "embarassing supporter" incarnate, and if you don't change, you're only making things worse for the people you claim to support.

Dean a centrist? LOL!!!

Dean's to the center, only when compared to the Moveon.org crowd! And not even then!

Thanks for a good laugh, but you have made me ruin a perfectly good keyboard!
Look at his record as governor of Vermont--not just the single instance where he signed a bill creating civil unions for same sex couples. He's a centrist, plain and simple. But hey, believe what you want to--being wrong has never stopped you in the past.

Look at his record as governor of Vermont--not just the single instance where he signed a bill creating civil unions for same sex couples. He's a centrist, plain and simple. But hey, believe what you want to--being wrong has never stopped you in the past.


Dean is fairly centrist. He's good on guns and from a rural state. (BTW, the vermont courts forced the same sex issue, Dean was just a bystander there).

Plus he balances budgets, and he has a personality too.

Speaking as a conservative, I will acknowledge that had the Dems run Dean, there is a good chance that we would have a lame duck republican in the White House right now.

Frankly I don't think the Dems could have found a worse candidate than JK, even had they tried.

i still don't see how you can call it "hate radio" and turn around and call bush a moron, fascist, balh blah blah (rhetoric).....and....liberals have all other media outlets....fox news is one of...let me see....ummm...3 or 4 (can't remember right now)

Liberal elitism is definitely what is putting the dems in the tank right now...i am not saying that all are, but the ones that are elitist may as well hold up a sign that says...."i'm better than you, redneck."

Zell miller is trying to point the dnc in the right direction.....GOING FARTHER LEFT WILL NOT HELP THE DNC!!!!

Frankly I don't think the Dems could have found a worse candidate than JK, even had they tried.

That's thr truth if i ever heard it....JK has the charisma of a sea sponge and a record with just as many holes in it....

They need to get rid of their reputation as a party of paranoia, hysteria, and irresponsible accusations. That starts with people like you.



And this is exactly the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that's hurting your party. You wonder where the accusations of liberal elitism come from? It's all right here... the arrogant assumption that people vote differently than you only because they don't have the intellectual capacity to see things your way. Well, guess what? Calling people "morons" is not going to win you a single vote. It's just a self-congratulatory circle-jerk, ironic considering that after the last election you have little to congratulate yourselves on, and it's going to kill your party if it doesn't stop.



More of the same. I'm the last person in the world to characterize all liberals as elitists, but you, as an individual, fit the bill perfectly. The people in these states are at the very least equal to you in terms of raw intellectual capacity, and every one of your posts that I've ever read indicates that most of them are a good deal more intelligent than you. For all your self-proclaimed superiority, you are clearly unable to distinguish rational debate from empty rhetoric. I myself have tried to get you to comprehend this difference on several occasions, but you either didn't understand or didn't give a shit. Neither of these says much for you as a "forward thinking progressive."

Do not ignore this post. Do not dismiss it as "hate speech" or "fascist lies" or any of the other convenient, meaningless terms I know you'd love to apply to it. I've just told you, in a nutshell, what's wrong with your approach and why you and people like you are one of the biggest obstacles the DNP needs to overcome. You're CS Lewis's "embarassing supporter" incarnate, and if you don't change, you're only making things worse for the people you claim to support.the only thing thats making dems lose the election is republican firms that own the voting machines to hack the vote with computer software programming and their ability to subvert free elections in America. Right now the Ukraine has more democracy then America does under Bush

i still don't see how you can call it "hate radio" and turn around and call bush a moron, fascist, balh blah blah (rhetoric).....and....liberals have all other media outlets....fox news is one of...let me see....ummm...3 or 4 (can't remember right now)

Liberal elitism is definitely what is putting the dems in the tank right now...i am not saying that all are, but the ones that are elitist may as well hold up a sign that says...."i'm better than you, redneck."

Zell miller is trying to point the dnc in the right direction.....GOING FARTHER LEFT WILL NOT HELP THE DNC!!!!
theres not one liberal perspective ANYWHERE in the mainstream media except air america radio which is still in its infancy and Zell Miller is a senile old fool who should be institutionalized for his own safety--the head of MOVEON.ORG should lead the DNC

what the fuck...i would like to see proof of that....damn, you peoiple jsut don't quit.....can't lose can you....communist bastards.....yes..i called you a communist bastard....you think the world is out to get you becasue your cantidate was a damn fucked up individual.....could never decide what he was for/against...but he should have won? At least we know what bush is thinking and where he stands on his issues.....kerry takes more sides then john mccain

what the fuck...i would like to see proof of that....damn, you peoiple jsut don't quit.....can't lose can you....communist bastards.....yes..i called you a communist bastard....you think the world is out to get you becasue your cantidate was a damn fucked up individual.....could never decide what he was for/against...but he should have won? At least we know what bush is thinking and where he stands on his issues.....kerry takes more sides then john mccain
thats the problem Bush doesnt think AT ALL which is why hes killing and maiming American soldiers in an unnecassary war thats costing us $200 billion just to bring terrorism to Iraq

theres not one liberal perspective ANYWHERE in the mainstream media except air america radio which is still in its infancy

soo....cbs isn't liberal when it was the introducing element for yor october surprise? how is CNN so conservative? MSNBC? Still didn't answer why you had to call it hate radio.....damn...can't get a streight or sensical answer out of you can i....

thats the problem Bush doesnt think AT ALL which is why hes killing and maiming American soldiers in an unnecassary war thats costing us $200 billion just to bring terrorism to Iraq

What about clinton's debalcle in Somalia...doidn't catch much flak over that did he? Serbia, bosnia.....never seems to be any criticizing of a liberal without it being hate radio etc....but you can have ralleys in the streets in which you burn bush in effigy, but i listen to hate radio? What the hell is that?

oh...and...before you ask me to prove that there are hate ralleys against bush in america...here you go....

http://www.underscorebleach.net/content/misc/sf_rally_november_3_2004/

there are more where that came from.....

the only thing thats making dems lose the election is republican firms that own the voting machines to hack the vote with computer software programming and their ability to subvert free elections in America.

Bullshit. As I've learned to expect from you, you're back to making wild, irresponsible accusations that you can't prove and have no intention of trying to prove, all in order to deflect attention from the real problem. No effort to defend yourself, or explain why you're justified in marginalizing over half the country, or even offer a weak, half-assed rebuttal like "It's okay for me to be an elitist, because I'm right!" If you want your candidates to keep losing, just keep doing what you're doing. Alienate the entire right, including moderaters who really don't like Bush that much, with your absurd claims of intellectual superiority. Alienate the center, and moderates in your own party, with your hysteria and irrational anger. Keep it up until you're left with nothing but the lunatic fringe. And while you're doing it, remember this: You are the problem. Not the voting machines. Not the corporate media. You, and everyone else like you, will be responsible for the death of your party. Enjoy.

soo....cbs isn't liberal when it was the introducing element for yor october surprise? how is CNN so conservative? MSNBC? Still didn't answer why you had to call it hate radio.....damn...can't get a streight or sensical answer out of you can i....
CNN is trying to outfox Fox CNN also had a rightwing extremist named Ralph Reed cover the dem convention-MSNBC cancelled Phil Donahues show cause he questioned the war in Iraq

What about clinton's debalcle in Somalia...doidn't catch much flak over that did he? Serbia, bosnia.....never seems to be any criticizing of a liberal without it being hate radio etc....but you can have ralleys in the streets in which you burn bush in effigy, but i listen to hate radio? What the hell is that?
Clinton stopping a madman in Serbia was done without any US casualties and was quick clean and surgical--he didnt get us stuck in a multi billion quagmire in Iraq for no other reason then corporate greed

Bullshit. As I've learned to expect from you, you're back to making wild, irresponsible accusations that you can't prove and have no intention of trying to prove, all in order to deflect attention from the real problem. No effort to defend yourself, or explain why you're justified in marginalizing over half the country, or even offer a weak, half-assed rebuttal like "It's okay for me to be an elitist, because I'm right!" If you want your candidates to keep losing, just keep doing what you're doing. Alienate the entire right, including moderaters who really don't like Bush that much, with your absurd claims of intellectual superiority. Alienate the center, and moderates in your own party, with your hysteria and irrational anger. Keep it up until you're left with nothing but the lunatic fringe. And while you're doing it, remember this: You are the problem. Not the voting machines. Not the corporate media. You, and everyone else like you, will be responsible for the death of your party. Enjoy.
the corporate centrists are the problem not the people who speak truth to power--if the dems feel they need to act like republican lite then its better that their party does die--america needs a true opposition party not a party of sellout corporate whores

oh...and have you picked up the NEW York Times lately? Or switched to NPR?

All rhetoric all the time.....

the corporate centrists are the problem not the people who speak truth to power--if the dems feel they need to act like republican lite then its better that their party does die--america needs a true opposition party not a party of sellout corporate whores

If they are acting republican lite than why wasn't the election closer? People wold have been more evenly divided....If the views were largely the same, more registered republicans would have voted democrat.....hmmm...doesn't make sens to me.....but...wait.....i live iin a red slave state.....what do i know?

the corporate centrists are the problem not the people who speak truth to power

Look, I've made my case against what you're doing. I've explained, in great detail, why it's hurting your party. Either stand up and defend it, or stop doing it. Don't offer some cheap one-liner about "corporate centrists" and act as if your ablility to put two words together into yet another empty phrase releases you from any responsibility for your actions.

if the dems feel they need to act like republican lite then its better that their party does die

I never said that the Democrats need to act like Republican Lite. I just said that they need to stop acting like you.

Exactly. Prove it.

Yes, Bush is quite the conservative. However, he's nowhere near fascist. Do you see concentration camps full of people who aren't Christians? Do you see people arrested for speaking their minds about Bush? I think not.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/anniesj/331112.html

Interrogations today, arrests tomorrow, "vanishings" the day after.

Name one person in America who was arrested and put on a terrorist list, just because they spoke out against the President. Can you name one?

Is the terrorist list public?

---


The Political Compass has this to say about "left" and "right".

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/images/USelection2004.gif

Put Kerry in any European country and he'll be lucky if the nationalist party takes him. Bush would be too extreme even for the likes of the British BNP and the German NPD. Heck, put them in *any* first world country in the world except maybe Australia, and they'll be off the scale.

You won't improve matters by pandering to the nationalistic pride of the rednecks. You also won't succede by ignoring them and endorse internationalism, because they won't vote for you then.

Solution? Leave the country and wait until it goes up in smoke. Worked in WW2. There's no heroism in getting deported for speaking out.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/anniesj/331112.html

Interrogations today, arrests tomorrow, "vanishings" the day after.

Well, i have already adressed this one before...but.. i guess it doesn't get through to anyone...*sigh*

The secret service DOES NOT DEAL WITH CIVILIANS!!! The only way the secret service will deal with you is if you are making an attempt on the current or a former first family, or...if you are counterfeiting.....THIS DID NOT HAPPEN!!

Had any agents came to his house, they would have been CIA....i have read this guy before and his rantings border on lunacy....ANYONE SAYING THE SECRET SERVICE IS OUT TO GET THEM NEEDS TO BE PLACED IN A RUBBER ROOM!!! Unless they fit into the two previouslly listed categories of cource ;)

Exactly. Prove it.

Yes, Bush is quite the conservative. However, he's nowhere near fascist. Do you see concentration camps full of people who aren't Christians? Do you see people arrested for speaking their minds about Bush? I think not.


yeah...im commin late in the game.

the first and second patriot act, and the 9/11 bill give george bush the power of a dictator. the patriot act is oddly enough timestamped and dated to have been passed when congress was OUT OF SESSION, which has not been explained. maybe its an error on the part of the person who put the date on it...or maybe we got cheated out of our rights. the 9/11 bill was over 3,000 pages long and congress was given less than 3 hours to read it, vote on it, and pass it.

these bills give bush the power to ARREST ANYONE without probable cause...all he needs is to say that they are under suspicion of terrorism and show no evidence. he can hold ANYONE IDEFINITELY, without trial, without access to a lawyer. the 9/11 bill was just recently signed by bush has passed a new federal law that will be phased in before the end of his term...this law enforces a national ID card system, and it states that if you do not allow your thumbprint and your DNA to be put in a national database, you can't have a driver's liscence. thats not even the worst of it...do some research. look it up. read the transcripts.

conservatism at its worst is dictatorship.
liberalism at its worst is communism.
democrats and republicans say the SAME THINGS about eachother...both parties are notorious for lies, past, present and future. both manipulate the media for their own benefit, those who are more successful are usually those currently in power. both say that when the members of the other party argue their points, they have no proof. PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE, regardless of proof. and lies and manipulations come from corrupt men...and there are corrupt men in ANY organization, so both sides are correct.

i am a centrist who claims no party. the dems are as bad as the republicans. democrats in general dont even know what they want, republicans in general want everything they can get. ( i am reffering to the officials in positions of power, not the average voter.)

and for the record...almost as many democrats voted to throw away our rights on the 9/11 bill without even demanding the time to properly review it as republicans. people who have money care about people who have money. regardless of what they say or do...they do it for you support.
NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU OR WHAT YOU WANT EXCEPT YOU! and that goes for anyone regardless of your party, your status, your money, your power, or your country.

a "good government" is an oxymoron. power breeds corruption. absolute power breeds absolute corruption. so either way we lose.

-ANARCHY-
Do what thou wilt shalt be the whole of the law!

hehehe....thread got cold when right wing started stepping on toes.... :D

hehehe....thread got cold when right wing started stepping on toes.... :D
Nah--thread got cold when those of us who have been around for a while heard the same old retarded arguments again. Anytime I read someone sayng "CNN and the NY Times are liberal" I automatically close down, because it's obvious they mean "CNN and the NY Times don't suck Bush's cock, so they're bad." Comes from too much exposure to FNC and Limbaugh, and I'm not sure there's a cure available.

This is proof that the Democratic party is sweeping itself aside to the ashheap of history. The Democratic party is pretty much irrelevant now, after all.

This is proof that the Democratic party is sweeping itself aside to the ashheap of history. The Democratic party is pretty much irrelevant now, after all.
Here's a little historical perspective, Whittier. Fifty years ago, the Republican party was in worse shape in Congress than the Democrats are now, and only won the presidency by running a war hero who was actively courted by both parties (Eisenhower). The Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and about an eighty-seat advantage in the House, and yet look at the situation today. These situations don't last forever, so you'd better enjoy the advantage while you have it, because it won't last.

Here's a little historical perspective, Whittier. Fifty years ago, the Republican party was in worse shape in Congress than the Democrats are now, and only won the presidency by running a war hero who was actively courted by both parties (Eisenhower). The Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and about an eighty-seat advantage in the House, and yet look at the situation today. These situations don't last forever, so you'd better enjoy the advantage while you have it, because it won't last.
ah, but it won't be the dems who will be the ones to beat the republicans. It will be someone else.
Things have changed a lot since the 1950's. The Democrats got enslaved by enviromental wackos, feminazis, and other anti american groups like that Moveon.org which claims to have bought the Democratic party.
See, what Moveon doesn't realize, is that the American people can't be bought.

ah, but it won't be the dems who will be the ones to beat the republicans. It will be someone else.
Things have changed a lot since the 1950's. The Democrats got enslaved by enviromental wackos, feminazis, and other anti american groups like that Moveon.org which claims to have bought the Democratic party.
See, what Moveon doesn't realize, is that the American people can't be bought.
Bush won because the American people CAN be bought.

ah, but it won't be the dems who will be the ones to beat the republicans. It will be someone else.
Things have changed a lot since the 1950's. The Democrats got enslaved by enviromental wackos, feminazis, and other anti american groups like that Moveon.org which claims to have bought the Democratic party.
See, what Moveon doesn't realize, is that the American people can't be bought.
Last time I checked they sold themselves for around $300 a piece....

idk about you, but i don't make anough money for my family AND the 3 crack addicts that live a mile away....so, yes maybe people can be bought....money IS the driving force in our era.....we need money to eat and live.....and for the most part, conservatives....
1) won't take governemnt handouts becasue it is offensive for us to be babied by our government...
2) don't whine about our less than perfect conditions and say we are being descriminated against, disenfranchised, or otherwise mistreated.
3) have enough pride to realize that if you don't work, you don't eat....however you like liberals who go on welfare for their whole lives....

That's the problem with democrats. They have no moral values.
The fact that they think people can be bought proves this.

That's the problem with democrats. They have no moral values.
The fact that they think people can be bought proves this.

That's very true. We always percieve our own worst fault in others.

hahaha......libs ran out of things to say...i hereby declare this thread *DEAD*

x_x