NationStates Jolt Archive

I have narrowed it down by what people say.

Oh, man, tough one. I'm trying to decide between Franklin Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Jimmy Carter.

Tossup:
Buchanan or van Buren.

*waits for someone to say Bush*

Oh, man, tough one. I'm trying to decide between Franklin Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Jimmy Carter.

You're kidding right?

You're kidding right?

What makes you think I'm kidding?

Ill say Bush

dosn't anyone know anything of Grants administration.. his was the most croupted.. infact he was a failor as a president all around

Where's FDR?

Ill say Bush
Did this one come to you in a Hendrix song?

We are the mediocre presidents
You won't find our faces on dollars or on cents
There's Taylor, there's Tyler, there's Fillmore, and there's Hayes
There's William Henry Harrison (I died in 30 days!)
We are the
Adequate
Forgettable
Occasionally regrettable
Caretaker presidents of the U-S-A!

What makes you think I'm kidding?

Roosevelt was amazing. Jimmy Carter didnt do anything wrong, nothing great, except for his speach. Lincoln you could argue was bad. But certainly not the worst.

Dwight Eisenhower.

Where's FDR?

In "Other."

dosn't anyone know anything of Grants administration.. his was the most croupted.. infact he was a failor as a president all around

I wrote him up there. Yes he sucked, he was very corrupt. But he was no Bush.

Roosevelt was amazing. Jimmy Carter didnt do anything wrong, nothing great, except for his speach. Lincoln you could argue was bad. But certainly not the worst.

Roosevelt ALSO was on the verge of setting up a dictatorship, being elected to four terms and stacking the Supreme Court..

Warren G. Harding.

Where's that native hating dickwad?

Fdr- pulled us out of the depression, gave millions jobs by creating jobs through government programs. When we were attacked led us through a world war which we won. He was also the longest serving president and wouldve kept on going but he died. R.I.P.

Eisenhower helped give millions of people houses, he was very good in my book. Helped build up the middle class and narrowed down the rich-poor divides. (Only for them to be torn down by Bush :rolleyes: )

Where's that native hating dickwad?

You'll have to be more specific.

You'll have to be more specific.

Jackson

You'll have to be more specific.

I would assume Andrew Jackson.

Roosevelt ALSO was on the verge of setting up a dictatorship, being elected to four terms and stacking the Supreme Court..

keyword, ELECTED! He was elected properly every four years. The PEOPLE wanted him. He didnt cancel elections and just keep on serving he was actually ELECTED!

Fdr- pulled us out of the depression, gave millions jobs by creating jobs through government programs. When we were attacked led us through a world war which we won. He was also the longest serving president and wouldve kept on going but he died. R.I.P.

On the point 1: he also spent so much money that is a very root of the national debt. On point 2: true. On point 3: that's not a good thing. That's leaning towards dictatorship. The signs are all there: popular, cares for the people, and elected to four terms...

Grant didn't do a single thing to help the country while in office though...even if u disagree with bush's policies the fact that we arn't in a recession now says he is atleast doing sOMETHING for this country

Did this one come to you in a Hendrix song?

Do do du du dududu. Do do du du dududu.

Jackson

Yeah he sucks too.

Roosevelt was amazing. Jimmy Carter didnt do anything wrong, nothing great, except for his speach. Lincoln you could argue was bad. But certainly not the worst.

Roosevelt forever killed federalism and limited government, leaving in his wake a sprawling, bureaucracy-choked, socialistic, paternalistic leviathan; his internment of Japanese-Americans was eerily reminiscent of the totalitarian fascists he pretended to oppose; he helped the Soviet Union change from an impoverished, backward dunghole into a credible threat; through deception and treachery, he managed to entangle us in a foreign war that was of no concern to us; he prolonged said-war indefinitely by refusing to support the anti-Hitler Nazis who genuinely desired peace; need I go on?

Carter was just a downright sleaze. During his regime, the economy was in the toilet, the unconstitutional Departments of Education and Energy were created, steadfast and strategically important allies around the world were backstabbed, handed over to the communists on silver platters, and their people were enslaved by totalitarian regimes which slaughtered their own people and fomented terrorism around the world, he gutted our military and intelligence at a time when the Soviets were upgrading theirs, he had no balls in foreign affairs (hostage crisis, SALT II, etc.), etc.

Too close to call. LBJ, FDR, Harding, Grant, Hoover, Johnson, Carter.

On the point 1: he also spent so much money that is a very root of the national debt. On point 2: true. On point 3: that's not a good thing. That's leaning towards dictatorship. The signs are all there: popular, cares for the people, and elected to four terms...

So a good president has to be hated by people??? No it was Presidents before him that built up the national debt. He took office during the depression and helped to bring it down.

Jackson

Jackson? Jackson was a hero. He got rid of the national bank. Yes, he had his faults (Trail of Tears, anyone?), but hell, who doesn't?

keyword, ELECTED! He was elected properly every four years. The PEOPLE wanted him. He didnt cancel elections and just keep on serving he was actually ELECTED!

But you are making the assumption that people aren't idiots. Bush was elected too remember.

The three worst Presidents, in order:
FDR
LBJ
Lincoln

The best President is whoever did the least while in office--William Henry Harrison, perhaps, since he was office only 31 days, and was very ill the whole time.

Roosevelt forever killed federalism and limited government, leaving in his wake a sprawling, bureaucracy-choked, socialistic, paternalistic leviathan; his internment of Japanese-Americans was eerily reminiscent of the totalitarian fascists he pretended to oppose; he helped the Soviet Union change from an impoverished, backward dunghole into a credible threat; through deception and treachery, he managed to entangle us in a foreign war that was of no concern to us; he prolonged said-war indefinitely by refusing to support the anti-Hitler Nazis who genuinely desired peace; need I go on?

Carter was just a downright sleaze. During his regime, the economy was in the toilet, the unconstitutional Departments of Education and Energy were created, steadfast and strategically important allies around the world were backstabbed, handed over to the communists on silver platters, and their people were enslaved by totalitarian regimes which slaughtered their own people and fomented terrorism around the world, he gutted our military and intelligence at a time when the Soviets were upgrading theirs, he had no balls in foreign affairs (hostage crisis, SALT II, etc.), etc.

Of no concern to us? You mean when the Japaneese bombed us we should have wrote them a letter saying, please dont do that again?

And a war that was no concern to us. Hmm. Arent you a Bush supporter *cough* Iraq *cough*

Ronald Reagan. Ended the cold war, my ass! And he set a precedent that allowed presidents to spend way too much on defense aka war-mongering.

But you are making the assumption that people aren't idiots. Bush was elected too remember.

So was Hitler.

Elections have nothing whatsoever to do with liberty.

The three worst Presidents, in order:
FDR
LBJ
Lincoln

The best President is whoever did the least while in office--William Henry Harrison, perhaps, since he was office only 31 days, and was very ill the whole time.

Yeah lets see where the US and the world for that matter would've been without FDR. The US would have been in the great depression till the 70's. We would have had the shit bombed out of us and the world would be under Hitlers control. (Do you really think that Europe alone could have defeated the Nazis?)

F. Roosevelt was the most horrific judaizer of a "president," the USA has ever seen, quite possibly worse then Boosh.

The three worst Presidents, in order:
FDR
LBJ
Lincoln

The best President is whoever did the least while in office--William Henry Harrison, perhaps, since he was office only 31 days, and was very ill the whole time.

If every president did nothing we would be screwed. Are you saying that presidents that did good things were bad?

Of no concern to us? You mean when the Japaneese bombed us we should have wrote them a letter saying, please dont do that again?

Roosevelt provoked the Japanese. He did everything in his power to instigate war between them and ourselves.

And a war that was no concern to us. Hmm. Arent you a Bush supporter *cough* Iraq *cough*

Wow, guess you've never read any of my posts before. If you had, you'd know I strongly oppose this war, and that I am adamantly anti-Bush.

Yeah lets see where the US and the world for that matter would've been without FDR. The US would have been in the great depression till the 70's. We would have had the shit bombed out of us and the world would be under Hitlers control. (Do you really think that Europe alone could have defeated the Nazis?)
Wow.

What makes you think that, without FDR, we wouldn't have gone to war when Pearl Harbor was bombed? WWII was ultimately what got us out of the depression, and we would have both been out of the Great Depression and fought in WWII with or without Roosevelt. These things didn't happen because of Roosevelt. He did, however, help out the Allies before the war started which can be attributed to him.

Of no concern to us? You mean when the Japaneese bombed us we should have wrote them a letter saying, please dont do that again?

And a war that was no concern to us. Hmm. Arent you a Bush supporter *cough* Iraq *cough*

No Roach-Busters hates Bush.

F. Roosevelt was the most horrific judaizer of a "president," the USA has ever seen, quite possibly worse then Boosh.

YOU ARE ALL INSANE! SHOW A REASON WHY ROOSEVELT SUCKED!

Carter
How the hell can a rabit attack you?

So was Hitler.

Elections have nothing whatsoever to do with liberty.
actually, hitler was never elected
the nazis were not "elected" either
they simply had a greater percentage than any other party (like 36%) and thus were able to make hitler chancellor
hitler then bossed his way around to being made the dictator

frankly, all the people who bitch about fdr's spending need to take a good look at their hero gwb

Wow.

What makes you think that, without FDR, we wouldn't have gone to war when Pearl Harbor was bombed? WWII was ultimately what got us out of the depression, and we would have both been out of the Great Depression and fought in WWII with or without Roosevelt. These things didn't happen because of Roosevelt. He did, however, help out the Allies before the war started which can be attributed to him.

He created jobs for millions of Americans through his programs.

YOU ARE ALL INSANE! SHOW A REASON WHY ROOSEVELT SUCKED!
He was an evil judaizer, manipulator, and traitor.

He was an evil judaizer, manipulator, and traitor.

How?

He created jobs for millions of Americans through his programs.
True, but these jobs were funded and paid for by American taxpayers. It was just a big transfer of money from the rich to the poor, not genuine job creation.

Yeah lets see where the US and the world for that matter would've been without FDR. The US would have been in the great depression till the 70's. We would have had the shit bombed out of us and the world would be under Hitlers control. (Do you really think that Europe alone could have defeated the Nazis?)

That's absurd. Hoover and Roosevelt's intervention in the economy are the only reasons the Depression lasted as long as it did.

He was an evil judaizer, manipulator, and traitor.
i think somebody might be an anti-semetic neonazi...

YOU ARE ALL INSANE! SHOW A REASON WHY ROOSEVELT SUCKED!

Simple.

He expanded government way beyond its proper limits.

That's absurd. Hoover and Roosevelt's intervention in the economy are the only reasons the Depression lasted as long as it did.
hoover did almost nothing
take a look at other countries across the world
name one that got out of the depression in the 30's w/o gov't intervention
hell germany did the best job of any western nation when it comes to the getting out of the depression thanks to hitler whether you like him nor not (i hope not, but whatever)

That's absurd. Hoover and Roosevelt's intervention in the economy are the only reasons the Depression lasted as long as it did.

How about it the the stock markets fault. It was a new thing and people were confused by it, than it failed.

Simple.

He expanded government way beyond its proper limits.
who's to decide proper? the people
and they, after all, voted for him four times, so therefore it is not "improper"

Simple.

He expanded government way beyond its proper limits.

He needed to do that to help get more people jobs and control the war. He had a lot of demands.

How about it the the stock markets fault. It was a new thing and people were confused by it, than it failed.
that was not the only cause of the great depression
example:the dust bowl would have happened w/o the stock market crashing

who's to decide proper? the people
and they, after all, voted for him four times, so therefore it is not "improper"

No.

The proper scope of government is decided not by majority wish, but by prior objective principles.

hoover did almost nothing

Hoover did quite a lot. His meddling only made things worse. A good source is A History of Money and Banking in the United States by Murray N. Rothbard. Of course, when compared to Roosevelt, Hoover looks like an anarchist.

How about it the the stock markets fault. It was a new thing and people were confused by it, than it failed.

How was the stock market a new thing? Please retort.

Close. Either Grant or Carter. LBJ belongs on the list too

He needed to do that to help get more people jobs and control the war. He had a lot of demands.

So?

The end does not justify the means. Try again.

And besides, 50+ years of economic analysis has shown that the despicable socialist Roosevelt did nothing but deepen and prolong the Depression--so not only were the means morally unjustified, but they were a practical failure!

How about it the the stock markets fault. It was a new thing and people were confused by it, than it failed.

The NYSE was created in 1792.

How?

Don't listen to his reasons. As said, Roosevelt:

Imprisoned Japanese-Americans in internment camps, reminscient of the fascists we were fighting
Absolutely increased the government to huge - national debt
Elected to four terms - on the verge of dictator

So a good president has to be hated by people??? No it was Presidents before him that built up the national debt. He took office during the depression and helped to bring it down.
Kwangistar's High School American History 101 :
National Debt


Date Amount
06/30/1933 22,538,672,560.15
06/30/1945 258,682,187,409.93

Well over 200 billion added under FDR's watch.



Edit : Source (http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdhisto3.htm)

that was not the only cause of the great depression
example:the dust bowl would have happened w/o the stock market crashing

Well let me just say you're right.

On another note FDR also helped our country grow strong even with the obsticle of the dust bowl. Got a lot of people jobs with his programs with all those farmers forced out.

oh and here; http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html

So?

The end does not justify the means. Try again.

And besides, 50+ years of economic analysis has shown that the despicable socialist Roosevelt did nothing but deepen and prolong the Depression--so not only were the means morally unjustified, but they were a practical failure!

Agreed.

So?

The end does not justify the means. Try again.

And besides, 50+ years of economic analysis has shown that the despicable socialist Roosevelt did nothing but deepen and prolong the Depression--so not only were the means morally unjustified, but they were a practical failure!


My favorite is his disallowing the use of modern machinery in road construction. Must be as inefficient as possible!

No.

The proper scope of government is decided not by majority wish, but by prior objective principles.
so would a tribal government for fifty, possibly controlling the general diets and jobs of every member, still be appropriate should the population swell to one hundred million?

edit: point was unclear

So?

The end does not justify the means. Try again.

And besides, 50+ years of economic analysis has shown that the despicable socialist Roosevelt did nothing but deepen and prolong the Depression--so not only were the means morally unjustified, but they were a practical failure!

Every reasonable person who doesnt spend his day watching NASCAR; North American Sports Cars and Rednecks, will tell you what amazing things FDR did for this country, other wise he would not have been elected with such a huge vote, I will say it again; http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html

My favorite is his disallowing the use of modern machinery in road construction. Must be as inefficient as possible!
well, it provided jobs
of course, some capitalists are too short sighted to see anything for the common good

Kwangistar's High School American History 101 :
National Debt


Date Amount
06/30/1933 22,538,672,560.15
06/30/1945 258,682,187,409.93

Well over 200 billion added under FDR's watch.



Edit : Source (http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdhisto3.htm)

That wasnt his fault, he follows Democratic procedures he raised money to pay off the debt, the debt was the fault of the Great Depression.

Every reasonable person who doesnt spend his day watching NASCAR; North American Sports Cars and Rednecks, will tell you what amazing things FDR did for this country, other wise he would not have been elected with such a huge vote, I will say it again; http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html
Nixon's re-election margin was .1% less than Roosevelt's biggest. But Nixon's up there on your poll.

well, it provided jobs
of course, some capitalists are too short sighted to see anything for the common good

They were effectively paid to dig ditches. They could have been enlisted to do something a bit more beneficial to society.

Every reasonable person who doesnt spend his day watching NASCAR; North American Sports Cars and Rednecks, will tell you what amazing things FDR did for this country, other wise he would not have been elected with such a huge vote, I will say it again; http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html

Politicians don't get elected by what they do, but by what they say.

The NYSE was created in 1792.

Yeah but there was a new thing involved in the stock market that messed it up, things change over 140 years.

That wasnt his fault, he follows Democratic procedures he raised money to pay off the debt, the debt was the fault of the Great Depression.
I can't quite understand this. The debt was the fault of two things. One, massive spending on WWII, and two, these massive programs you keep bringing up.

That wasnt his fault, he follows Democratic procedures he raised money to pay off the debt, the debt was the fault of the Great Depression.


A better argument - how much of the debt was caused by WWII?

Edit - beat me to it

My favorite program was the one where he payed farmers to destroy their crop. Sounds absurd, but makes perfect sense when you understand it. A great deal of the Great Depression was the surplus of goods, which is why WW2 yanked us out of the Depression by allowing us to use and sell those goods.

They were effectively paid to dig ditches. They could have been enlisted to do something a bit more beneficial to society.
not really...
but:
many millions of young men were in the ccc, planting trees, were these also a waste of government funds and young men's time?

Yeah but there was a new thing involved in the stock market that messed it up, things change over 140 years.


And this 'new thing' was?

Politicians don't get elected by what they do, but by what they say.

Maybe the first time that is true (and even than their senate or former govt. experience is counted) but after they have a record on what they did than people start electing smarter. Unfortunately people grew dumb during this election. But Bush barely squeeked ahead, FDR won by a substantial amount. ONCE AGAIN! http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html

not really...
but:
many millions of young men were in the ccc, planting trees, were these also a waste of government funds and young men's time?

I don't recall making that argument.

That wasnt his fault, he follows Democratic procedures he raised money to pay off the debt, the debt was the fault of the Great Depression.

No, it was FDR's fault. He spent over three times as much money as his 31 predecessors combined.

Yeah but there was a new thing involved in the stock market that messed it up, things change over 140 years.
i believe he is referring to buying on margin
this is before the sec, and trading was often unethical and nearly every stock's value was hyperinflated during 1929

My favorite program was the one where he payed farmers to destroy their crop. Sounds absurd, but makes perfect sense when you understand it. A great deal of the Great Depression was the surplus of goods, which is why WW2 yanked us out of the Depression by allowing us to use and sell those goods.

Yeah that was a good idea, but it wouldnt sound it, people just have to do their research.

No, it was FDR's fault. He spent over three times as much money as his 31 predecessors combined.
i dont see your point?
yes i presume you want a smaller gov't, but if you really cared, you would vote some minor 3rd party candidate every time. do you? (probably not)

I can't quite understand this. The debt was the fault of two things. One, massive spending on WWII, and two, these massive programs you keep bringing up.

If he didnt do what he did do on WWII the world would have been conquered. Sorry love to prove you wrong more but I have a life outside of NS. Thank you to all of my supporters! Keep on proving these bastards wrong!

i dont see your point?
yes i presume you want a smaller gov't, but if you really cared, you would vote some minor 3rd party candidate every time. do you? (probably not)

Being 19, I only voted once (and it was for a third-party candidate).

I don't think that you can fairly put the current president up there. He has not finished his term.

Maybe the first time that is true (and even than their senate or former govt. experience is counted) but after they have a record on what they did than people start electing smarter. Unfortunately people grew dumb during this election. But Bush barely squeeked ahead, FDR won by a substantial amount. ONCE AGAIN! http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html
ONCE AGAIN!
FDR Re-Election High : 60.8%, 1940
Average : 56.3%

Nixon Re-Election : 60.7%, 1972

Warren Harding (Only election) : 60.3%

If he didnt do what he did do on WWII the world would have been conquered. Sorry love to prove you wrong more but I have a life outside of NS. Thank you to all of my supporters! Keep on proving these bastards wrong!

No it was Presidents before him that built up the national debt. He took office during the depression and helped to bring it down.

Was that guy who said Bush had the lowest IQ of any President your alias?

Grant didn't do a single thing to help the country while in office though...even if u disagree with bush's policies the fact that we arn't in a recession now says he is atleast doing sOMETHING for this country


You think you aren't?
the dollar has rarely stood lower.
The US is getting more and more in debt
and Bush still wants to keep lowering taxes for the rich.

He's made the US hated all over the world, he's destroyed your reputation, destroyed your freedoms and is basically utterly and totally incapable.
He's stupid, started an unjust war based on a lie to keep attention away from the horrible state the US is in, has made thousands, if not more lose their jobs, made it so the divide between poor and rich is getting ever wider
and wants to destroy what little social security the US has...

Is that the sign of a good president to you?

Well, Van Buren was the only president to order a genocide against a religious group, and I have yet to hear anything good about him. Besides, I'm not going to be brainwashed and say Bush.

You guys have had many shit presidents, but I think your best ever was Franklin Roosevelt. He was certainly not perfect, and did many despicable acts (Japanese internment camps), but his achievements are greater than any other US president.

True, but these jobs were funded and paid for by American taxpayers. It was just a big transfer of money from the rich to the poor, not genuine job creation.


And this is a problem for what reason?

where is clinton he screwed up the flu vactionations

And this is a problem for what reason?
You can't keep on building roads and damns forever.

Much as I can't stand the Shrub, I have to say Warren G. Harding.

He did nothing for the country. Nothing......

You can't keep on building roads and damns forever.
well "damns" don't exist, but i've never seen contruction workers run out of projects to work on
also, after wwii several of the gov't programs were not needed anymore because the economy was back on track
where is clinton he screwed up the flu vactionations
so you lost a few dozen people because they didn't get their vaccines, that's no crime compared to any of a hundred things that he and other presidents have done

You guys have had many shit presidents, but I think your best ever was Franklin Roosevelt. He was certainly not perfect, and did many despicable acts (Japanese internment camps), but his achievements are greater than any other US president.

Thank you! And might I add, I am totally for the independance of North Ireland!

If America, Canada, Oman, Yemen, India, Australia, Ireland and countless African countries have gotten their independance from England, than North Ireland certainly can!

where is clinton he screwed up the flu vactionations

He's not the only one to screw up flu vaccinations. *Cough: Bush!*

Thank you!
I'd like to add my name by saying that FDR wasn't the greatest of presidents. He had good intentions, and sucessfully lead us through WWII. But during the Great Depression, he stifled a recovery. There was indeed a huge recovery in 1934, but in 1935, it shrank back. He also created the "big government" that stifled economic growth in the fifties, sixties, and seventies. Perhaps he did create lots of jobs, but at what cost? Higher taxes, and a national debt that increased tenfold. On top of that, the nation had no solid recovery until WWII, and that was because WWII destroyed everyone else's economy, but the war never touched the US.

The very worst President was Andrew Jackson. That guy was, pardon the French, a complete asshole.

*waits for someone to say Bush*
Still a little early to say "worst ever" in my opinion, but based on his track record and his current movement toward surrounding himself with sycophants who can only say "Yes Mr. President," I'd say he's well on his way to owning the record.

The very worst President was Andrew Jackson. That guy was, pardon the French, a complete asshole.
I didn't like him either. He was a populist, expelled the Natives, and did nothing to aid Texas. He also campaigned by saying that John Quincy Adam's mother was a whore.

Other, Andrew Jackson, for his work in destroying the Indian nations, after they helped in further his military career. Trail of Tears might not have happened if he wasn't elected.

Every reasonable person who doesnt spend his day watching NASCAR; North American Sports Cars and Rednecks, will tell you what amazing things FDR did for this country, other wise he would not have been elected with such a huge vote, I will say it again; http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html

Roosevelt was a shitty President because he was the pinnacle of populism--he concentrated solely on making the masses happy, to the detriment of individual rights. Since the sole proper purpose of government is not utilitarian--to do the "greatest good for the greatest number"--but rather to protect individual rights, even if it makes a lot of people unhappy, he was a damn horrible President.

The majority's status as such does not confer upon it the legitimate authority to commit wholesale violations of individual rights, no matter how much they want to. Nothing confers such authority upon anyone.

I would say for me it is a toss up between LBJ or Carter....There a re some close seconds but these two come in at the top ten....All by themselves...

Am I allowed to choose the current president? I know, at least a few people like him, and I'm sure its not his fault, but even he should be able to recognize that he's done some shitty things. Or is he just trying to out-dumb his father?

Bleh.. I didn't see the other option or I would have voted for that... Andrew Jackson, the murderous, evil, bigot, was most certainly the worst U.S. president. G.w.B. come in second though.

Here's a question for all the Regan lovers how hate FDR:

What does it mean to you that Regan admired the man?

Andrew Johnson - his reconstruction policies ruined any chance of healing the nations rift, and was directly responsible for the race problems that still persist.

Andrew Johnson - his reconstruction policies ruined any chance of healing the nations rift, and was directly responsible for the race problems that still persist.

Well good argument there but Grant's administration really drove it home.....

Here's a question for all the Regan lovers how hate FDR:

What does it mean to you that Regan admired the man?
It means to me that FDR was a masterful politician. I admire him for being that. He certainly was an extremely skilled politician for coming to power, turning Washington upside-down, and in the process, making the US the leader of the free world. That doesn't mean, however, that I like his policies. I just admire his political cunning.
And fyi, it's spelled Reagan.

Roosevelt was a shitty President because he was the pinnacle of populism--he concentrated solely on making the masses happy, to the detriment of individual rights. Since the sole proper purpose of government is not utilitarian--to do the "greatest good for the greatest number"--but rather to protect individual rights, even if it makes a lot of people unhappy, he was a damn horrible President.

The majority's status as such does not confer upon it the legitimate authority to commit wholesale violations of individual rights, no matter how much they want to. Nothing confers such authority upon anyone.

Ok... if government is not utilitarian, and the purpose of small government is to protect the rights of the individual, how come so many conservatives are against social and civil rights (for the individual, i.e. gay marriage) and also pine for "One Nation Under God" while espousing "States' Rights"?

i notice that americans who hate fdr for jacking up the dept love reagan.
reagan is the guy whose reckless defence spending jacked up the US national dept to its greatest heights

*ahem*

*wades through the shit of the thread*

Worst presidents in order.....

3. Andrew Jackson-Trail of tears...this was one of the darkest chapters of american history....i don't care what you say, native americans had it a hell of alot worse than any african-americans.....you weren't plucked up by your government and herded across the country...your people sold you (not racist, just trying to make a point...i hate it when black people say they are most oppressed people bullshit though)

2. Jimmy Carter-definite communist supervisor....dept of energu and dept of education dabacles.....plus those god awful lips...lol

1. Frankin Delano Roosevelt-transfer of money is just plain wrong....he taxed the hell out of those that could barely make ends meet anyway and gave it to other people through pointless government-funded projects (not all were pointless though); closest thing we have ever had to a dictator; had nothing to do with war, we would have been in it neway after pearl harbor, so don't go pullling the "popular wartime president thing"; had nothing to do with pulling out of the depression....depression was caused by good faith pledges early in the stockmarket history....on "black tuesday" the stock market hiccupped and everyone pulled everything out...(except for a few people with the foresight to see that they should buy while low....names like carnagie come to mind, but then roosevelt redistributed wealth to paranoid people) the war pulled us out of the depression....; FDR' prolonged the depression...

Now, at the end of this post....WHY DO YOU HATE BUSH SO MUCH!!! Is it becasue he is a professed christian? Is it becasue he isn't afraid to protect his country? Is it becasue he is looking out for American Intrests...........the EU is just pissed off that we attakced Iraq becasue the EU has OPEC's dick shoved up it's ass.....now they lost a buddy (*ahem* oil for food)....i still believe that people dislike bush because it is the "cool thing to do"......People that are pissed off about "tax breaks for the wealthy".....well.....tax breaks for people that make more then 40k a year....idk about you....but my parents make 40k a year and they struggle to pay their bills...they certainly aren't rich....and...IT IS GOOD FOR A TAXE BREAK IN THE HIGHEST INCOME BRACKET!!!! noone seems to have ever hear of the Laffer Curve.....learn your economics......

Ok... if government is not utilitarian, and the purpose of small government is to protect the rights of the individual, how come so many conservatives are against social and civil rights (for the individual, i.e. gay marriage) and also pine for "One Nation Under God" while espousing "States' Rights"?

Because they wrong.

What about Hoover he absolutley ruined the economy

Look at this thing, the way its set up people are going to pick bush no matter what. Without looking it up most people can't remember all 43 of the presdidents im sure. Why not realize that anti bush sentiment is strong right now, and so maybe leaving him out would be appropriate.And how can annyone say bush is worse than harrison, he died in 30 days!

Oh, man, tough one. I'm trying to decide between Franklin Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Jimmy Carter.

Partisan hack.

Historians of all political persuasions consistently rank FDR and Lincoln as our two greatest presidents.

Who was that one who only served for like 12 days? (I forget his name)

As much as I would like to say George W. Bush, no president after Richard Nixon can intelligently be evaluated for his place in history.

Yet.

Not enough time has gone by to determine the impact recent presidents have had on American history or world events.

Most historians usually rate Buchanan, Grant, and Harding as three of our worst, with Andrew Johnson often tossed in for good measure.

No opinion. Although I do believe, out of the Presidents whose terms I've studied, that FDR was the greatest President.

Who was that one who only served for like 12 days? (I forget his name)
Harrison. He died in 30 days I believe (although some people in this thread said 31). Got pneumonia because he gave an absurdly long inaugural address during horrible weather and died a month later.

Worst? Hmmm. I would have to say it's a three-way tie between Herbert Hoover, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. :)

I just want to make a point to all those people who think that if it wasn't for the US, Hitler and the Nazis would have won WWII.

When the US joined the war in the early 40's Germany was facing critical setbacks on their easternfront. Operation 'Barbarossa' wasn't going so well and the red army was gaining the momentum.
It also has to be remembered that the allies never sent any aid to the Russians, the fact that they made it to Berlin on their own is quite remarkable. With or without the US Germany would have fallen. Fighting a war on two fronts with no allies (the fact that the German army had to do most of the fighting in Italy cancels Italy has a helpful ally) is not easy, and the Russians would have eventually defeated the Germans.

Worst US president is Lyndon B. Johnson. The way he handled Vietnam was horrible. He probably could have won it if he used his brain instead of listening to Mcneara(spelling oops)

I regarded US Grant as the worst President ever untill last year.

I know you PNACy Wacky Neocons will defend Bush regardless of his past or future screw ups, and your all for Rumsfeld's plan to suppress the formation of any new superpower over the next hundred years by tripling the size of the Armed Forces and establishing land bases in Asia.

For further information on the Admistration's world plans please go to:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

and do read all 90 some pages of "Rebuilding America's Defenses".

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

I'm just happy I was never an officer and my "Ready Reserve" obligations were finished years ago.

The Lend Lease supplied the Russians with a HUGE amount of things necessary to their military machine. One of numbers was in upwards of 50,000 trucks. Without it, the Russians might have not been able to sustain their tempo.

Partisan hack.

Historians of all political persuasions consistently rank FDR and Lincoln as our two greatest presidents.
Partisan? Two of them are Democrats and one is a Republican, out of three...

People clearly don't have a historical perspective on bad-ness of US Presidents. I'd have to say Buchanan is by far the most dreadful, he did nothing except put off the beginning of the civil war for three years. Hell, he didn't even leave office before it began.

Harding and Grant both were in administrations mired in corruption, but they didn't fundamentally harm the US.

Abraham Lincoln, while admittedly being responsible for the first income tax in US history, and greatly harming the freedoms of the people also fixed what Buchanan swept under the rug. He held the union together by the sheer force of his will. So he gets mucho-grande-nachos points for that.

Nixon abused power, but he also did some good things for the US. He got the US out of Vietnam, admittedly with some questionable moves, and he skillfully played the USSR and PRC off of each other to the US advantage, and he began the first real detente. (I don't know how to do the accent markings in typing)

Bush, while not a good President, isn't all that bad. (he is bad, mind you, but not that bad.) His actions immediately following September Eleventh, were in my opinion exemplary. He counseled the nation against taking vengeance out upon innocent muslims and he handled the international situation superbly. He also gave a lot of income tax cuts, which are a good thing. The Patriot Act and some similar things are cruddy, and he should have ditched Rumsfeld right when Abu Ghraib broke. Iraq, while we should have toppled Hussein, was run dreadfully, way too much micromanagement on the part of Rummy. But the Bush problems can be fixed with minimal pain, no civil wars, no secession, just some legislating and changes in the cabinet.

People clearly don't have a historical perspective on bad-ness of US Presidents. I'd have to say Buchanan is by far the most dreadful, he did nothing except put off the beginning of the civil war for three years. Hell, he didn't even leave office before it began.

Harding and Grant both were in administrations mired in corruption, but they didn't fundamentally harm the US.

Abraham Lincoln, while admittedly being responsible for the first income tax in US history, and greatly harming the freedoms of the people also fixed what Buchanan swept under the rug. He held the union together by the sheer force of his will. So he gets mucho-grande-nachos points for that.

Nixon abused power, but he also did some good things for the US. He got the US out of Vietnam, admittedly with some questionable moves, and he skillfully played the USSR and PRC off of each other to the US advantage, and he began the first real detente. (I don't know how to do the accent markings in typing)

Bush, while not a good President, isn't all that bad. (he is bad, mind you, but not that bad.) His actions immediately following September Eleventh, were in my opinion exemplary. He counseled the nation against taking vengeance out upon innocent muslims and he handled the international situation superbly. He also gave a lot of income tax cuts, which are a good thing. The Patriot Act and some similar things are cruddy, and he should have ditched Rumsfeld right when Abu Ghraib broke. Iraq, while we should have toppled Hussein, was run dreadfully, way too much micromanagement on the part of Rummy. But the Bush problems can be fixed with minimal pain, no civil wars, no secession, just some legislating and changes in the cabinet.


For the most part, i can agree with you....rumsfeld is NOT A GOOD CHICE WHATSOEVER!!! I don't think that abu ghraib should have been treated the way it was....perhaps it lowerd some people's dignity.....i'm sure it has happened before (and will happen again). Also, interrogation involves breaking the will of the people you are interrogating.....i have read/heard (someone correct me if i am wrong please) that, for muslims, being disrobed in front of another man is a terrible dishonor.....wel...can break will....and....really i don't give a shit.....they lost dignity....not their lives....

Oh, and bush isn't my favorite prez by far....so don't just think that i sa ythings good about him becasue i an a mindles election machine....(i voted for clinton over dole).....i think that bush does want to help, but he has surrounded himself with neo-cons and extremests.....definitely.....rummy for one.....

I'd have to say FDR, WJC or Jimmy C. would have to top my list...

Reagan.

What about Hoover he absolutley ruined the economy
Hoover wasn't the best at it, for he did raise tariffs on foreign goods when they were harmful. But the bulk of the Depression was outside of his control. He wasn't good, but he was no demon-president either.

Reagan.

wtf?

Are you gorby?

Voted Other:
Andrew Jackson