NationStates Jolt Archive

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=13&u=/ap/20041217/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_abuse_probe

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=13&u=/ap/20041217/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_abuse_probe
Briton Details U.S. Abuse at Guantanamo

Jamal al-Harith
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041217/thumb.par10512171423.france_guantanamo_abuse_probe_par105.jpg
-That's some "Briton." :rolleyes:

I assume you consider only those of white ethnicity to be British? If so, you're pathetically undereducated about the multicultural society of modern Britain.

Stuff like this is necessary in wars, especially when the enemy isn't really noticeable. If it took some coercing of a man from Pakistan, so be it. I'm sure that his interrogators knew the diference between a false confession and real information, anyhow.

I assume you consider only those of white ethnicity to be British? If so, you're pathetically undereducated about the multicultural society of modern Britain.
Ooohhh, some multicult wonders... :rolleyes:

Brutality against prisoners. It's typical American behaviour.

Brutality against prisoners. It's typical for Americans.
The key word is prisoners. If you ask me, the US is far too humane with prisoners, and just about every other country. In fact, I found it interesting that the US did away with the rule that inmates couldn't talk back in the 19th century. We all need to revert back to that.

The key word is prisoners. If you ask me, the US is far too humane with prisoners, and just about every other country. In fact, I found it interesting that the US did away with the rule that inmates couldn't talk back in the 19th century. We all need to revert back to that.
Don't worry. The US has already reverted back to the 19th century.

Don't worry. The US has already reverted back to the 19th century.
Just in how we treat our prisoners, especially those that are foreigners caught under suspicious circumstances by the military or CIA.

Just in how we treat our prisoners, especially those that are foreigners caught under suspicious circumstances by the military or CIA.
No. In general.

No. In general.
In general, the treatment of prisoners is far too humane. I see no reversion at all.

Hey VW, in your profile it mentions:
"Brute force, if it's not working you're not using enough"

But you advocate humane treatment of prisoners? Please clarify this apparent contradiction. And I hate to admit it, New Anthrus is right; the fact is that these men are dangerous and we need to deal with them.

Besides, aren't the guidlines of POW or terrorist totally different from prisoner treatment guidlines otherwise?

Hey VW, in your profile it mentions:
"Brute force, if it's not working you're not using enough"

But you advocate humane treatment of prisoners? Please clarify this apparent contradiction. And I hate to admit it, New Anthrus is right; the fact is that these men are dangerous and we need to deal with them.

Besides, aren't the guidlines of POW or terrorist totally different from prisoner treatment guidlines otherwise?
My point exactly. I know how hard it is for you to agree with me, but at the very least, bear in mind that this is a war. What is happening would be downright immoral in peacetime, but at least it gets the job done.

Briton Details U.S. Abuse at Guantanamo

Jamal al-Harith
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041217/thumb.par10512171423.france_guantanamo_abuse_probe_par105.jpg
-That's some "Briton." :rolleyes:
Yay, smart person here.

Unusual name + Dark skin = evil foreign type

Hey VW, in your profile it mentions:
"Brute force, if it's not working you're not using enough"

But you advocate humane treatment of prisoners? Please clarify this apparent contradiction. And I hate to admit it, New Anthrus is right; the fact is that these men are dangerous and we need to deal with them.

Besides, aren't the guidlines of POW or terrorist totally different from prisoner treatment guidlines otherwise?

He just hates America...or did you not catch on to that?

Yay, smart person here.

Unusual name + Dark skin = evil foreign type
?? :confused: ?? What is your point?

"Disturbing...and eerily reminiscent of the Nazis "

Right...because the Nazi prisoners walked out with nary a scratch and were allowed to immediately file lawsuits.

He just hates America...or did you not catch on to that?
Oh yeah . . . well I'll just trash his logic anyday though

My point exactly. I know how hard it is for you to agree with me, but at the very least, bear in mind that this is a war. What is happening would be downright immoral in peacetime, but at least it gets the job done.
Al-Harith said that during long interrogations, he was given no choice but to urinate on the floor and repeatedly threatened or asked to confess to crimes he had not committed in exchange for a payoff.


Interrogators threatened to seize his family's home unless he admitted to having gone to Pakistan to buy drugs or to become involved with terrorism, al-Harith said.


"On another occasion, the interrogators promised me money, a car, a house, a job if I admitted those things," he said. "I refused."
Torture, though invariably morally abhorant, can be argued for if it leads to intelligence that can save lives. However, as is very clear from this statement that this was not the goal, but rather to get him to confess to crimes, a purpose for which torture is not merely immoral but also innapropriate, as its not likely to lead to a truthful confession.

?? :confused: ?? What is your point?
My point is, under what grounds were you suggesting that this guy isn't British?

Torture, though invariably morally abhorant, can be argued for if it leads to intelligence that can save lives. However, as is very clear from this statement that this was not the goal, but rather to get him to confess to crimes, a purpose for which torture is not merely immoral but also innapropriate, as its not likely to lead to a truthful confession.
How do we know? Terrorists all have the same goal in common, but are loosely organized. when it comes to suspicious activity, such as visiting a terrorist training camp, we have to pick up who we can

How do we know? Terrorists all have the same goal in common, but are loosely organized. when it comes to suspicious activity, such as visiting a terrorist training camp, we have to pick up who we canNo, I don't think you got what I'm getting at. Assuming even that this guy was actually a terrorist, torturing him to get him to admit something is not only wrong (in that, its not information that could save any more lives) but its also likely to lead to a false confession, and therefore, useless.

My point is, under what grounds were you suggesting that this guy isn't British?
Hmmm.. Maybe because British are White? Or maybe something to do with Mahometanism? (http://host106.ipowerweb.com/~whitehis/gohomemuslims2.mov)

Hmmm.. Maybe because British are White? Or maybe something to do with Mahometanism? (http://host106.ipowerweb.com/~whitehis/gohomemuslims2.mov)

Brit·on ( P ) Pronunciation Key (brtn)
n.

1. A native or inhabitant of Great Britain.
2. One of a Celtic people inhabiting ancient Britain at the time of the Roman invasion.
3. A member of a Brittonic-speaking people.


No, it appears being white isn't a pre-requesite. You are teh wrongz0rz.

Brit·on ( P ) Pronunciation Key (brtn)
n.

1. A native or inhabitant of Great Britain.
2. One of a Celtic people inhabiting ancient Britain at the time of the Roman invasion.
3. A member of a Brittonic-speaking people.


No, it appears being white isn't a pre-requesite. You are teh wrongz0rz.
And where is this definition from? The ADL- Approved Dictionary?

And where is this definition from? The ADL- Approved Dictionary?

What the hell is the ADL? Asshole's Dyslexic Language? Is it Asshole Dyslexic Language approved? Hell if I know.

www.dictionary.com




Out of curiosity, can you show me a definition of the british that mandates them to be white? Or did the j00ish conspiarazy get rid of it?

Hmmm.. Maybe because British are White? Or maybe something to do with Mahometanism? (http://host106.ipowerweb.com/~whitehis/gohomemuslims2.mov)
My point in that case is that you are a pointless, racist troll who's opinions are beneath contempt.

What the hell is the ADL? Asshole's Dyslexic Language? Is it Asshole Dyslexic Language approved? Hell if I know.

www.dictionary.com




Out of curiosity, can you show me a definition of the british that mandates them to be white? Or did the j00ish conspiarazy get rid of it?
The "Anti-Defamation League" of B'nai B'rith, the international Jewish terrorist society.

No, I don't think you got what I'm getting at. Assuming even that this guy was actually a terrorist, torturing him to get him to admit something is not only wrong (in that, its not information that could save any more lives) but its also likely to lead to a false confession, and therefore, useless.
It keeps him on his toes, just in case he did have something to say. I'm sure that the interrogators by now can tell the difference between information and false confessions, for even if he didn't do everything he confessed to, he certainly did know about something with the terrorists, and is not telling.

No. In general.

BS. We're way too lenient toward criminals. That's why there's so much damn crime.

The "Anti-Defamation League" of B'nai B'rith, the international Jewish terrorist society.

Never heard of them. But that's because I live inside the jewish controlled uberverse.

Still waiting for the definition of yours.

Out of curiosity, can you show me a definition of the british that mandates them to be white? Or did the j00ish conspiarazy get rid of it?
No, don't be silly. It was aliens. Now put on that tin foil hat.

/\
||
(14 words)

Never heard of them. But that's because I live inside the jewish controlled uberverse.

Still waiting for the definition of yours.
Pretty ignorant to not have heard of them.

It keeps him on his toes, just in case he did have something to say. I'm sure that the interrogators by now can tell the difference between information and false confessions, for even if he didn't do everything he confessed to, he certainly did know about something with the terrorists, and is not telling.
Well I think that's bullshit.

Pretty ignorant to not have heard of them.
Maybe its a conspiracy

Brutality against prisoners. It's typical American behaviour.

No, it's typical human behavior. America's usually more civilized about such things and, despite some of our recent egregious missteps, I welcome you to compare our ethics to those of our enemies and most of our contemporaries.

Sigh. A few imbecilic soldiers make asses of themselves and have the audacity to PHOTOGRAPH their abhorrent antics, and suddenly our nation's Nazi Germany redux. Yes, we've done wrong - very wrong - but these incidents are more isolated than most seem to assume.

Pretty ignorant to not have heard of them.
Pretty ignorant to say all Brits are white and that everything is a Jewish conspiracy.

Yay, smart person here.

Unusual name + Dark skin = evil foreign type


Me thinks (hope) me detects srcacasm.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=13&u=/ap/20041217/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_abuse_probe
And of course, this asshole is FAR more creditable than any American soldier or representative. :rolleyes:

Maybe its a conspiracy

A j00ish conspiarazy!

Pretty ignorant to not have heard of them.

Definition please. Or at least admit that it doesn't exist.

A j00ish conspiarazy!



Definition please. Or at least admit that it doesn't exist.
Definition of what?

Well I think that's bullshit.
Think what you want. I certainly do.

Definition of what?

Out of curiosity, can you show me a definition of the british that mandates them to be white? Or did the j00ish conspiarazy get rid of it?

I'm still waiting

Enter the US government, quite nasty, huh?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=13&u=/ap/20041217/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_abuse_probe
shocking and should not be allowed. a violation of this man's deontological and fundamental human rights.

Hmmm.. Maybe because British are White?

No, that would be just plain wrong, and you wouldn't make that kind of mistake.

shocking and should not be allowed. a violation of this man's deontological and fundamental human rights.
Oh bullshit! This guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people and should have known better at the very least. If he did know better, then he's on the same level as the other terrorists.

Poor, mistreated, abused lil asshole. Pay him a zillion dollars 'cause his poor widdle feewings were hurted!

Oh bullshit! This guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people and should have known better at the very least. If he did know better, then he's on the same level as the other terrorists.

Poor, mistreated, abused lil asshole. Pay him a zillion dollars 'cause his poor widdle feewings were hurted!
thats not the point. he may well have been at the wrong place at the wrong time, and it may have been his fault. hell he could be guilty, but he should not be subjected to that behaviour.

Cuba is f-cking awesome. They should put up one of these billboards in every country.


Cuba Erects Sign Linking U.S. and Nazis
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

HAVANA (AP) -- Cuba retaliated for the U.S. diplomatic mission's Christmas display supporting Cuban dissidents by putting up a billboard Friday emblazoned with photographs of American soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners and a huge swastika overlaid with a ``Made in the U.S.A'' stamp.

The billboard, erected overnight facing the U.S. Interest Section's offices, stands on the Malecon, Havana's famed coastal highway.

Hmmm.. Maybe because British are White? Or maybe something to do with Mahometanism? (http://host106.ipowerweb.com/~whitehis/gohomemuslims2.mov)
Are you Nick Griffin in disguise?

OMG they have beards and strange customs! Send them away!!1

As for the news story, I think it's pretty wrong to do those kind of things to another person. And considering he's been released, that leads to the conclusions that either:
a) He was innocent, and deserved none of that treatment.
b) He was guilty, but the torture didn't work, which kind of defeats the point.

BS. We're way too lenient toward criminals. That's why there's so much damn crime.

Nah. America is one of the most messed up penal systems in the democratic world and has a huge amount of its population behind bars. The american system is too harsh and focuses on punishment rather than prevention. The reason why crime is a problem is because the US has lousy social policies.

Defensor, I'm waiting

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7733889&postcount=43

Cuba is f-cking awesome. They should put up one of these billboards in every country.


Cuba Erects Sign Linking U.S. and Nazis
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

HAVANA (AP) -- Cuba retaliated for the U.S. diplomatic mission's Christmas display supporting Cuban dissidents by putting up a billboard Friday emblazoned with photographs of American soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners and a huge swastika overlaid with a ``Made in the U.S.A'' stamp.

The billboard, erected overnight facing the U.S. Interest Section's offices, stands on the Malecon, Havana's famed coastal highway.

Idiots.
That's why people are always risking their lives to flee to Cuba.

Oh bullshit! This guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people and should have known better at the very least. If he did know better, then he's on the same level as the other terrorists.

Poor, mistreated, abused lil asshole. Pay him a zillion dollars 'cause his poor widdle feewings were hurted!
His feelings weren't hurt. His body was tortured and beaten. He was humiliated and psychologically tortured for months and then they finally bothered checking to find out he had nothing to do with Al Qaeda and had no connection with it. Why do you think they let him go?
And you think brutalising and torturing an innocent man over several months by your armed forces is perfectly okay, a correct course of action and worthy only of a very pathetic attempt at saracsm.
And yet somehow you also think the US is better than those nasty Muslims who go round kidnapping and torturing innocent ppl.

What a sad nasty little world you live in.

Defensor Fidei:
Do you really believe all that stuff you're been posting, or are you just really bored and seeing how many flames you can get?

His feelings weren't hurt. His body was tortured and beaten. He was humiliated and psychologically tortured for months and then they finally bothered checking to find out he had nothing to do with Al Qaeda and had no connection with it. Why do you think they let him go?
And you think brutalising and torturing an innocent man over several months by your armed forces is perfectly okay, a correct course of action and worthy only of a very pathetic attempt at saracsm.
And yet somehow you also think the US is better than those nasty Muslims who go round kidnapping and torturing innocent ppl.

What a sad nasty little world you live in.
What a sad, illusionary little world you live in. You place your prejudices and bigotry on display by accepting the word of this one, highly suspicious individual over the word of the Americans who had charge of him.

What a sad, illusionary little world you live in. You place your prejudices and bigotry on display by accepting the word of this one, highly suspicious individual over the word of the Americans who had charge of him.

So it's ok to torture someone if they are suspicious?

Thats messed up...as usual.....

And of course, this asshole is FAR more creditable than any American soldier or representative. :rolleyes:

Of course he is..


Oh bullshit! This guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people and should have known better at the very least. If he did know better, then he's on the same level as the other terrorists.

Poor, mistreated, abused lil asshole. Pay him a zillion dollars 'cause his poor widdle feewings were hurted!

Reiterating what other people have already said.. you did not hurt his feelings. You hurt him physically and mentally. And you did that while he was still considered innocent under accepted moral codes. I'm sure that constitutes a crime against humanity.

What a sad, illusionary little world you live in. You place your prejudices and bigotry on display by accepting the word of this one, highly suspicious individual over the word of the Americans who had charge of him.

Freedom-loving people (who are part of the illusionary little world you speak of) tend to side with the little man, not the oppressor. And why should we not side with him, hmm?? Because he's a Muslim? Or because his story may be false?

And if you really want to argue that his story is false, you should really take another look at the side you're on.. not exactly the most honest bunch..

So it's ok to torture someone if they are suspicious?
You have a remarkable propensity for putting words in the mouths of others, don't you. Where did I ever say it was ok to torture anyone, anytime, for any reason? Quote it to me and I'll immediately post a retraction and an apology.

Of course he is...
And this effectively puts an end to whatever small amount of credibility you may have had, renders the remainder of your post irrelevant, and frees me to address posts from those with a modicum of objectivity.

And this effectively puts an end to whatever small amount of credibility you may have had, renders the remainder of your post irrelevant, and frees me to address posts from those with a modicum of objectivity.

And this effectively demonstrates that you cannot prove whether the guy is truthful or not.

You talk of objectivity?? You do realize that almost everyone here who has reviewed your posts would not place you on the top of the list of most objective General posters, right?

Hey VW, in your profile it mentions:
"Brute force, if it's not working you're not using enough"

But you advocate humane treatment of prisoners? Please clarify this apparent contradiction. And I hate to admit it, New Anthrus is right; the fact is that these men are dangerous and we need to deal with them.

Besides, aren't the guidlines of POW or terrorist totally different from prisoner treatment guidlines otherwise? They don't let them see lawyers, neither do they bring charges against them. One can only assume that the case isn't strong enough.

Our damn citizens! Why can't we British deal with them?

It's sad how everyone accepts this.

Hey VW, in your profile it mentions:
"Brute force, if it's not working you're not using enough"

But you advocate humane treatment of prisoners? Please clarify this apparent contradiction.
I thought it sounded funny. It has nothing to do with my believes.

Just a suggestion: how about everyone just ignores Defensor Fidei

Every post I've seen from him (on any thread) is completely f*cking useless and idiotic, bordering on flamebait.

Ignore him, he'll eventually go away! :)

Just a suggestion: how about everyone just ignores Defensor Fidei

Every post I've seen from him (on any thread) is completely f*cking useless and idiotic, bordering on flamebait.

Ignore him, he'll eventually go away! :)
Oh, wow, yet more smearing by the slaves of Zion...

Way to completely ignore Goed Twee's request.

And don't you dare post anything along the lines of "oh, you wouldn't know because your Jewish overlords don't want you to know the truth."

If he as truly fed such a vile assortment of food then when theuy released him he would not be in the health he seems to be. Also where are the pictures of the scars etc. etc. When the article says he claims the beatings left scars but deigns not to show any evidence I am somewhat suspicious.

And this effectively demonstrates that you cannot prove whether the guy is truthful or not.

You talk of objectivity?? You do realize that almost everyone here who has reviewed your posts would not place you on the top of the list of most objective General posters, right?
You do realize that I couldn't care less whether you think I'm objective or not, yes? :D

And of course, this asshole is FAR more creditable than any American soldier or representative. :rolleyes:

This side of Abu-Ghraib, yes, unfortunately.

Oh, wow, yet more smearing by the slaves of Zion...

If you don't have a definition, just say so already. For such an upright true catholic, you sure do lie a lot. Heretic scum.

Bump for Defensor

If you don't have a definition, just say so already. For such an upright true catholic, you sure do lie a lot. Heretic scum.
A definition of what, heretic?

A definition of what, heretic?

A definition of "briton" that shows that one has to be white. You said a briton has to be white. I'm asking you for proof. You're the one who's lying, heretic.

A definition of "briton" that shows that one has to be white. You said a briton has to be white. I'm asking you for proof. You're the one who's lying, heretic.
The natural definition of a Briton includes being White.

The natural definition of a Briton includes being White.

Show me where you obtained this information

Show me where you obtained this information
Such as?

Such as?

Cite your sources, lying heretic.

Briton Details U.S. Abuse at Guantanamo

Jamal al-Harith
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041217/thumb.par10512171423.france_guantanamo_abuse_probe_par105.jpg
-That's some "Briton." :rolleyes:
Ah, BNP member, are we?

What a sad, illusionary little world you live in. You place your prejudices and bigotry on display by accepting the word of this one, highly suspicious individual over the word of the Americans who had charge of him.
No I accept the fact that the Americans let him go saying they could find NO evidence that he had anything to do with Al Qaeda. And that was after torturing him for two years.
By still prattling on that he must be guilty of something, implies you have no faith in the American forces. Cause if there was proof he had connections, letting him go means they haven't a clue. Which makes the 2 years of torture even worse (if possible), because absolutely nothing was achieved by it. If they torture someone for 2 years and still have no idea whether he was a terrorist or not, what was the purpose?
However, if you have faith in the Amercan forces and intelligence to make correct decisions, then you have to accept that they let these guys go because they're innocent. Which meant they tortured innocent men for two years.
And all you can do is make pitiful sarcastic comments about their plight.

And you place your bigotry on show by assuming that every Muslim arrested by the US must be guilty of something.

Does anyone else find it odd that most of the torture stories don't line up at all? Or that there are only personal accounts w/o physical evidence?

EVERYONE: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

Defensor Fidei, you're warned for flaming and trolling.

Goed Twee, you're warned for flaming as well.