NationStates Jolt Archive

Alright, people, don't turn this into a flamewar. Let's keep this a serious on topic debate. If you do try to hijack this thread I will find you and beat you up, and if you have seen the video of the fight between me and Etrusca, you know how mean I can be.

Now, for the question.

Do you believe that actions or faith define righteousness?

I personally believe that God will recognize actions, and here is why:

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34Then the king will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.' 37Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?' 40And the king will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,g you did it to me.' 41Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' 45Then he will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

So what does everyone think?

Those who are truly righteous in their faith will show it in their actions. You can do good things and not believe in them. You can't believe in good things and then do bad things, or you believe something is more important than than the good thing. Righteousness is both, but only because faith leads to good works.

Faith and good works are both necessary for salvation.

Clearly, merely performing functions ("acts") has no eternal value. An example would be the rote performance of useless rituals.


Doing what you're supposed to, when you're supposed to, with the right heart condition, and in accordance with God's will is "righteoussness".

Those who are truly righteous in their faith will show it in their actions. You can do good things and not believe in them. You can't believe in good things and then do bad things, or you believe something is more important than than the good thing. Righteousness is both, but only because faith leads to good works.

So only people who believe in God can do good deeds, or can live a good life?

I think you know how wrong that statement is. That verse I posted stated that the righteous are those that helped the needy, while mentioning nothing of faith.

You should also use a word other than "thing", it makes your point very vague.

So only people who believe in God can do good deeds, or can live a good life?

I think you know how wrong that statement is. That verse I posted stated that the righteous are those that helped the needy, while mentioning nothing of faith.

You should also use a word other than "thing", it makes your point very vague.
You don't have to mention faith to have faith. The righteous do good things because they want to do them, not because they look good or because it's expected. Humans are inherently selfish, they always have a motive. It just depends on if your motive is God or something else.

It is as the Sikhs believe, the faith that you choose to follow is merely another way to God. If your actions in life are selfless and you follow the morals of any religion, you will be righteous.

Clearly, merely performing functions ("acts") has no eternal value. An example would be the rote performance of useless rituals.


Doing what you're supposed to, when you're supposed to, with the right heart condition, and in accordance with God's will is "righteoussness".

What do you think of the verse I posted?

Do you think that through acts you can show your acceptance for Christ and his teachings. Can you have the spirit in you heart but not in your mind?

You don't have to mention faith to have faith. The righteous do good things because they want to do them, not because they look good or because it's expected. Humans are inherently selfish, they always have a motive. It just depends on if your motive is God or something else.

Does faith automatically signify belief, are they the same thing?

Is doing God's work the only possible good motive someone could have?

And, when I'm feeling pretty righteousness, I remember that my "righteousness" is as a dirty rag to God. It's only because of Jesus' perfect sacrifice that I can appear righteous (through Him).

i have good reason why faith and works is the only way....but i can;t tye it all now....i have to go to work....i will do iit in about 9 hours.....

Does faith automatically signify belief, are they the same thing?

Is doing God's work the only possible good motive someone could have?
Isn't it? Why else would someone donate to charity? So they look good most likely. Because it's expected of them. That warm fuzzy you get is just the thought that hey, you one upped Bob next door.

And, when I'm feeling pretty righteousness, I remember that my "righteousness" is as a dirty rag to God. It's only because of Jesus' perfect sacrifice that I can appear righteous (through Him).

Yes, and only through Jesus is salvation, and Jesus plainly says in the scripture I posted that those at his right are those who have fed the hungry, etc.

It mentions nothing of faith.

Do you believe that actions or faith define righteousness?
This seems to bascially be a question of "are you Catholic or Protestant?"

Catholics believe that they can be saved if they do good works in life, while Protestants believe that faith alone is required.

Isn't it? Why else would someone donate to charity? So they look good most likely. Because it's expected of them. That warm fuzzy you get is just the thought that hey, you one upped Bob next door.

Well, there are a great deal of people who would disagree with you on that, myself included.

Even if that is true, how is that any worse than doing because you think you will go to hell if you don't?

This seems to bascially be a question of "are you Catholic or Protestant?"

Catholics believe that they can be saved if they do good works in life, while Protestants believe that faith alone is required.

That is true, but I don't want this thread to involve denominations, I don't think God would care how you defined yourself.

This seems to bascially be a question of "are you Catholic or Protestant?"

Catholics believe that they can be saved if they do good works in life, while Protestants believe that faith alone is required.
Or "are you a Christian or a heretic?"

Or "are you a Christian or a heretic?"

Don't post on this thread again, please.