NationStates Jolt Archive

what is your opinion on the turkey request to join the europe union?
there are some reasons for and against:

for- turkey is democracy, and she has some land in the area of europe. turkey ahs divided the religion from the state, and they modern countrey. ban them from join to europe union could increase the radicalism in turkey and in other islamic states.

against-turkey is poor islamic state. large part from europen public want them out from europe. turkies could use the union's benefits to "steal jobs from other states", or for terror attacks. if turkey join, the muslims will be 15% from europe, and could get more power. turkey with her 70 milions citizens will get much power in the union as the second big state.


this is most of the reasons I know, but what you think?
should turkey could be part of the european union?
maybe she join with some sanctions?
or maybe whole the european unoin idea is wrong?

The diversity of Turkey's population is not what worries me really. If the EU consider letting Turkey join without conforming with Human rights issues it would be a huge knock to the credibility of the EU.
I also think that the major reason why Turkey can't join until about 2008 is because the accesion countries need to align with their western counterparts. If we let Turkey join the EU, my opinion on what would happen would it would make the EU a 2 tier group with the west reaping the benefits and the east being exploited

against: only a tiny part of turkey is actually in europe...

against: only a tiny part of turkey is actually in europe...

how would this affect the EU exactly?

turkies could use the union's benefits to "steal jobs from other states", or for terror attacks.
Turks. That is a what a Turkish person is called. And I believe that Turkey should be let into the UN, I see little reason not to, though there're plenty of arguments against, I just don't find them strong enough.

how would this affect the EU exactly?

its really quite obvious, its the 'European' Union...Turkey is not a european country

I don't trust Turkey and I won't want them in the EU.

Isn't there a topic on this already? :confused:

I don't trust Turkey and I won't want them in the EU.
but you live in america...why would you care?

the French and Germans dont want the Turkish in the EU because

"We are not certain of their commitment to the European ideal"
Translation "They are a large nation and could outvote us".

the British, well we do, because

"We believe in equality and the inclusion of all European nations"
Translation"It'll really piss off the French and Germans".

its really quite obvious, its the 'European' Union...Turkey is not a european country

I'm just trying to see where you were going with it. You stated a fact and then didn't explain why. I thought you might talk about military or economic benefits or problems Turkey's geographic position would mean or what affects they would have on the EU. Clearly I was mistaken

Clearly I was mistaken

yup :)

well theres also the fact that they have appalling human rights abuses, their economy is up the left, and theyd be another major drain on the existing countries

Lets let in Kazakstan as well since a small portion of them are west of the Eurals which makes them part of Europe.

the French and Germans dont want the Turkish in the EU because

"We are not certain of their commitment to the European ideal"
Translation "They are a large nation and could outvote us".

the British, well we do, because

"We believe in equality and the inclusion of all European nations"
Translation"It'll really piss off the French and Germans".
This is what pisses me off about the EU its the same us against them scenario. Thats why we need QMV instead of this ridiculous system where everyone can agree except Malta (for example) so we are back to square 1

but you live in america...why would you care?
I live in America, yet I care about foreign issues. I care about the Ukrainian elections. Just because something doesn't have apparent immediate impacts on a person doesn't mean they can't be concerned.

yup :)

well theres also the fact that they have appalling human rights abuses, their economy is up the left, and theyd be another major drain on the existing countries

Indeed all fair enough and I agree on

I live in America, yet I care about foreign issues. I care about the Ukrainian elections. Just because something doesn't have apparent immediate impacts on a person doesn't mean they can't be concerned.

fair enough

This is what pisses me off about the EU its the same us against them scenario. Thats why we need QMV instead of this ridiculous system where everyone can agree except Malta (for example) so we are back to square 1

Precisely. it is very hard for any of the nations to cooperate with one another - its ingrained.

Precisely. it is very hard for any of the nations to cooperate with one another - its ingrained.

The fact is we would have to give up power. Chances of that happening, not very good

And I believe that Turkey should be let into the UN.
They are in the UN.

the French and Germans dont want the Turkish in the EU because
Your an idiot. France, and especially Germany are the biggests supporters of Turkey.

Green Israel, I am sorry to point out that your English grammar is atrocious!

You should get someone to read through and correct your posts before posting them

Green Israel, I am sorry to point out that your English grammar is atrocious!

You should get someone to read through and correct your posts before posting them

ease up. the point green got across and maybe english is not the first language looking at the name

Well I would sincerely hope that English is not Green Israel's first language, the grammar was worse than a 6 year old.

The point was got accross, but it was painful to read it. I dont mean to be rude, but if you are going to post in English then at least have some command of the grammar, otherwise post in your own language.

Come on, its not that difficult!

Well I would sincerely hope that English is not Green Israel's first language, the grammar was worse than a 6 year old.

The point was got accross, but it was painful to read it. I dont mean to be rude, but if you are going to post in English then at least have some command of the grammar, otherwise post in your own language.

Come on, its not that difficult!

Que?

So basically, the decision once again comes down to religion. Europe just doen't want any Muslims to have any form of power that could be a threat to non-Muslims.

Ease up Carthrage and Troy, what's your big problem, it's not a big deal.

So basically, the decision once again comes down to religion. Europe just doen't want any Muslims to have any form of power that could be a threat to non-Muslims.

didn't you know its a disease, we can't have filthy muslims in our club*

*chokes and drowns due to wave of sarcasm*

Que?

Bueno, esperia sinceremanete que Ingles no fuera su primer idioma, la gramatica era de un ninyo de 6 anyos.

El punto de vista si llego, pero era dolorosa leer. No quiero ofender, pero si vas a postar in Ingles por lo menos ten un mandito de la gramatica, si no postar en tu propia idioma.

Orale, no es tan dificil!

So basically, the decision once again comes down to religion. Europe just doen't want any Muslims to have any form of power that could be a threat to non-Muslims.
Please. How dumb are you? Turkey wouldn't even have negotiations now if that was true.

Bueno, esperia sinceremanete que Ingles no fuera su primer idioma, la gramatica era de un ninyo de 6 anyos.

El punto de vista si llego, pero era dolorosa leer. No quiero ofender, pero si vas a postar in Ingles por lo menos ten un mandito de la gramatica, si no postar en tu propia idioma.

Orale, no es tan dificil!

muy bien

took u long enough ;)
Obviously ure given a few mistakes but hey its not your first language is it?

for- turkey is a democracy, and it has some land in the area of europe. turkey has divided the religion from the state, and they are a modern country. No letting them into the EU could increase the radicalism in turkey and in other islamic states.

against-turkey is poor islamic state. A large part of the European public want them out from europe. Turks could use the union's benefits to "steal jobs from other states", or for terror attacks. If Turkey joins, the muslims will be 15% of Europe, and could get more power. Turkey with its 70 milions citizens will get much power in the union as the second big state.
Actually it would be the biggest country in the EU. And due to its population development it is going to be the most populated country of the meditereanean region. In 2015-30 its population is estimated to surpass 100 million. So Turkey would with a huge distance be the largest country in Europe.
The balance of power in Europe could be endangered by this development.


this is most of the reasons I know, but what you think?
Should Tturkey be part of the european union?
Maybe it joins with some restrictions?
Or maybe whole the european union idea is wrong?
The problem is that there is no common idea what the EU should be.
As a pure free-trade area a Turkish membership wouldn´t be a problem. But since the EU is more than that the issue is more difficult.
It is on the current members of the club to decide about membership. So: a membership of any new country would need an UNANIMOUS consensus of all members. Turkey is not even recognising all members of the EU (Cyprus). Up until this changes the membership isn´t even technically possibly to let a country joining the "family" that is not recognising all members of the family.

Turkey is a country mainly located in Asia and the Middle East.
An enlargement of the EU into this region would led to the question whether countries like Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaidshan and Israel should or could become EU members as well.
The effect of such a development could not only be problems with Moscow but an overstretch of the EU which is not even able to handle an union of 25 members. Countries are cheating and reporting wrong data to the EU (Greece and Italy). The entire structure and decision making is inefficent and ineffective. And the more countries join, the more inefficent it gets, since it gets more and more impossible to reach consensus - which is required in many areas.
An EU defined as a pure free-trade pact could handle a Turkish membership.
But an EU which would aim to be more than that would not.
Therefore the question is not only one about Turkey. It is a question what direction the EU should take. It is about the future of the EU and its self-definition.

Turks. That is a what a Turkish person is called. And I believe that Turkey should be let into the UN, I see little reason not to, though there're plenty of arguments against, I just don't find them strong enough.
Turkey is already a member of the EU.
This is about the EU not the UN. Two different things.

but you live in america...why would you care?
The predominant opinion in the USA is to get the EU to admitt Turkey into it. Reason: binding Turkey stronger to "the west" and to itself.
The question is: Why should we care about this interest?
On the other hand: due to the strong binding of Turkey to the west can we afford to deny it the membership if it fulfills (in the future) the conditions for membership - which it doesn´t today in many fields (from occupying parts of the territory of an EU member, to human rights and economic questions)?

I fear we can´t.
It is the nominative power of the facts which determines this development.
The only question is: can we find another solution?
Probably Turkey itself decides one day not to go for the EU since it would lose to much sovereignity. But if this isn´t the case i think a Turkish membership in the long-term (10-15 years) is unavoidable.
A factor of destability and uncertainty since due to its size and power it would change the EU tremendously. After all: Turkey would be the biggest and most populous country in the EU.

Well I would sincerely hope that English is not Green Israel's first language, the grammar was worse than a 6 year old.

The point was got accross, but it was painful to read it. I dont mean to be rude, but if you are going to post in English then at least have some command of the grammar, otherwise post in your own language.

Come on, its not that difficult!
I had no problem to write in ny own language, but somehow I don't think everybody can understand Hebrew.

I used to be FOR.
I changed my mind. Why? The opposition is too strong, and I don't value Turkish membership high enough to break the Union over.

The predominant opinion in the USA is to get the EU to admitt Turkey into it. Reason: binding Turkey stronger to "the west" and to itself.
The question is: Why should we care about this interest?

Real reason: To keep the EU weak and divided. To eliminate the competition before it can start.

muy bien

took u long enough ;)
Obviously ure given a few mistakes but hey its not your first language is it?

6 minutes to reply is not that long, but yes I did overreact a bit, but that is the fun of forums, it is the only place where you can let out all your frustrations without having to deal with any consequences.
Nobody knows who you are so it doesn't matter.
Sorry Green Israel, didn't mean to offend.

I think the US should apply to join the EU.

That would be a hoot.

the French and Germans dont want the Turkish in the EU because
"We are not certain of their commitment to the European ideal"
Translation "They are a large nation and could outvote us".
Balance of power - an old British concept btw.
The position of Miss Thatcher regarding the reunification of Germany was determined by the same consideration.
Btw: the German government is strongly in favour of Turkish membership. That has of course nothing to do with the fact that they want to secure the votes of the part of the Turkish minority which has got the German citizenship. And everybody who thinks otherwise is just "evil".


the British, well we do, because
"We believe in equality and the inclusion of all European nations"
Translation"It'll really piss off the French and Germans".
It is the German government which is strongly pushing for Turkish membership - as well as French president Chirac.
They are not popular for that. But they do it because of their strategic (and also geostrategic (and possibly also domestic) considerations.
Otherwise this decision would not have been made.
We´ll see how things develop. France and Austria want to take a referendum before Turkey could become member of the EU.
Most analysts see a time-frame from 10-15 years at least. (10 years are actually the minimum).

"We believe in equality and the inclusion of all European nations"
What countries do you consider European countries with the prospect of an EU membership?
Armenia?, Georgia?, Azerbaishan?, Israel?, Lebanon? Kazakstan? Usbekistan? Tadzikistan? Turkmenistan? Kyrgstan?
Russia?

Or is it rather following the good old concept of Churchill:
To keep the Americans in .... and the Russians out?

I think the US should apply to join the EU.

That would be a hoot.
Would the US be ready to abolish the death penalty?
Turkey already had to do it.
Though in many areas the human rights situation is problematic to say the least.
Especially religious freedom is not garanteed. Christian churches are not recognized by the state and the situation for the churches is very difficult.
And regarding the seperation of religious and state: Turkey has a ministry for religion and has employed the imams (the religious preachers).
By doing so the state has virtually the religion under control. That can not be compared to the idea of religious freedom that exists in "the west" (US, Europe).
Though obviously it is necessary to prevent developments like in the Arab world or Iran. So: The liberalisation could actually leads to a reislamisation of Turkey. That is actually already happening. And Erdogan and his AKP is the party of this reislamisation.

Btw: the German government is strongly in favour of Turkish membership. That has of course nothing to do with the fact that they want to secure the votes of the part of the Turkish minority which has got the German citizenship. And everybody who thinks otherwise is just "evil".
No of course it's not. Populism is below Schröder. :rolleyes: *grmmbl*Never an assasin around when you need one.
That bastard realy deserved the smack he got. To bad he didn't kick him in the nutts or broke his nose. Or both.


Otherwise this decision would not have been made.
We´ll see how things develop. France and Austria want to take a referendum before Turkey could become member of the EU.
Most analysts see a time-frame from 10-15 years at least. (10 years are actually the minimum).
Like Turkish admission is even an issue. It has already been decided. And I don't care how often they say it's not. The troll Verheugen accidentally flapped his mouth on his last Turkey trip. He said they would vote in favor of Turkey and they did. The same goes for the admission of Turkey. Everything else is nothing but smoke and mirrors.

Like Turkish admission is even an issue. It has already been decided. And I don't care how often they say it's not. The troll Verheugen accidentally flapped his mouth on his last Turkey trip. He said they would vote in favor of Turkey and they did. The same goes for the admission of Turkey. Everything else is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
Though the referendums are unpredictable. How they are going to go out can not be predicted. But they are indeed the only real obstacle.

In Sweden a referendum for the Euro failed recently.
So: They are real obstacles.
I agree with you in that respect that they are the only real obstacles for Turkey.

but you live in america...why would you care?

Because I also want America to join the EU :P

Because I also want America to join the EU :P
Why? It would mean a loss of national sovereignity.
There is no need for such a powerful nation like the US to give away national sovereignity.
"The strong(est) is the strongest (only) alone."

I agree with you in that respect that they are the only real obstacles for Turkey.
I'm sure they will find a way to make the outcome, if negative, somehow go away so it doesn't have any impact on Bush's & Co's plans to make us wear Burkha's.

I'm sure they will find a way to make the outcome, if negative, somehow go away so it doesn't have any impact on Bush's & Co's plans to make us wear Burkha's.
I think you are completly irrational in everything regarding America and President Bush in particular.
He is fighting against terrorism and islamism and against the dshihadists.
With the liberation of Afghanistans millions of people were liberated and many woman have the opportunity to get rid of the burkha.
And that is an achievement of the war on terror; an achievement of the US and also of President Bush.

I think you are completly irrational in everything regarding America and President Bush in particular.
America doesn't like competition. And the easiest way to get rid of possible competition is to weaken your enemy from within. Thats why your God has been pushing so hard for Turkey's admission. And of course his bitches, Schroeder, Balkenellnde, Blair etc...want to do everything to please him.
He is fighting against terrorism and islamism and against the dshihadists.
With the liberation of Afghanistans millions of people were liberated and many woman have the opportunity to get rid of the burkha.
And that is an achievement of the war on terror; an achievement of the US and also of President Bush.
And once you stopped worshipping them for a second you might be able to see another one of his achievements. Increased Islamic fundamentalism. In Turkey as well. The mosques are our barracks, the minarets our spears, the domes our helmets and the faithfull our soldiers. Thats part of the Islamist poem for which Erdogan was send to jail. And out of nowhere he suddenly stopped beeing a fundamentalist and converted to democrat? Yeah, right.

Why? It would mean a loss of national sovereignity.
There is no need for such a powerful nation like the US to give away national sovereignity.
"The strong(est) is the strongest (only) alone."

Note the :P expression, indicating that I am joking.

Although, I wouldn't mind if America did join the European Union. It might mean we'll start being more like Europeans, whom I find worlds better overall than other Americans.

I do believe Turkey will benefit the EU - doing so would serve as a good common ground between Europe and the Mideast

I do believe Turkey will benefit the EU - doing so would serve as a good common ground between Europe and the Mideast
Common ground? Turkey has traditionally no good connections into the Middle East. And since Atatürk it has broken ties with that region.
The only way which could change that would be a reislamisation of Turkey. That is - to some degree - happening today.
But this is not at all in the European interests.
Radical islamism is after all a threat to the entire west, as we have seen on September 11.
And it is at least a concern to have a "problematic" country within the EU club!

Common ground? Turkey has traditionally no good connections into the Middle East. And since Atatürk it has broken ties with that region.
The only way which could change that would be a reislamisation of Turkey. That is - to some degree - happening today.
But this is not at all in the European interests.
Radical islamism is after all a threat to the entire west, as we have seen on September 11.
And it is at least a concern to have a "problematic" country within the EU club!
And all the reforms Turkey had to make to fullfill the Copenhagen criteria won't make them any more popular in the middle east either. So the argument that they will serve as a bridge is the biggests pile of horsecrap imaginabel.

what is your opinion on the turkey request to join the europe union?
there are some reasons for and against:

for- turkey is democracy, and she has some land in the area of europe. turkey ahs divided the religion from the state, and they modern countrey. ban them from join to europe union could increase the radicalism in turkey and in other islamic states.

against-turkey is poor islamic state. large part from europen public want them out from europe. turkies could use the union's benefits to "steal jobs from other states", or for terror attacks. if turkey join, the muslims will be 15% from europe, and could get more power. turkey with her 70 milions citizens will get much power in the union as the second big state.


this is most of the reasons I know, but what you think?
should turkey could be part of the european union?
maybe she join with some sanctions?
or maybe whole the european unoin idea is wrong?

You need to get your priorities in order, drop Israel than learn to spell.

I think it would be great it Turkey joined, Europe could help build up there econemy, and Turkey is probably the most civilized Arab country, actually, it defenitely is. It would be an ingenious move. Than following that example the amount of terrorists would fall, a little bit, there arent too many from Turkey. But usually when a nation joins another bigger country, such as Europe or the US it will become better, I mean look at Puerto Rico, they have picked up there econemy and there living thing, but there culture is still rich and has kept the same.

turkey is spending to much time worrying about being european. its obvious from a geographical and cultural standpoint that they are not european. they are however in a unique position to be a leader in the creation of an arab union, mostly because they are democratic, have seperated church and state and despite being poor in comparison to european nations they have a significant economy when compared to other arab nations.

NO!! I dont want Turkey in the EU and if they are allowed, it will be the death of Europe and of European Christendom. Also Turkey is not apart of Europe except for Adrianople and Constantinople. Plus they are too poor to do anything.

I think it would be great it Turkey joined, Europe could help build up there econemy, and Turkey is probably the most civilized Arab country, actually, it defenitely is. It would be an ingenious move. Than following that example the amount of terrorists would fall, a little bit, there arent too many from Turkey. But usually when a nation joins another bigger country, such as Europe or the US it will become better, I mean look at Puerto Rico, they have picked up there econemy and there living thing, but there culture is still rich and has kept the same.
I think you should get the facts straight.
Europe is not a country but a continent. The EU is not a state but an union of states. And Turkey is not an Arab country.
That is one of their problems. They are not an Arab country, are not seen as one and don´t see themself as one. And most people don´t see it as an European country either.

turkey is spending to much time worrying about being european. its obvious from a geographical and cultural standpoint that they are not european. they are however in a unique position to be a leader in the creation of an arab union, mostly because they are democratic, have seperated church and state and despite being poor in comparison to european nations they have a significant economy when compared to other arab nations.
Turkey is not an Arab country.
It is a Turkmen country.
If at all it could become the leader of a Turkmen Union which could include Azerbaidshan and the former Soviet Republics in Central Asia which are also muslim countries (Kazakstan, Kygistan, Uzbestian, e.g.).

Well if there's finally a Muslim nation that wants to join forces with the West then I'm all for it. I hope that they can be better then Egypt and Saudi Arabia though, who only 'say' that they are cracking down on terror. Maybe Turkey will do better? Oh, and maybe they'll make peace with Israel.

In conclusion, I support Turkey in the EU.

One of the most idiotic mistakes to make would be trusting someone like Erdogan. He's an Islamic extremist disguising himself as a democrat. His extremist leanings were made perfectly clear by his past behaviour. The only reason he's been more subtle about it is because he doesn't want to go in front of a military firing squad. Now do you really think that when the military loses any political role it has (One of the EU's conditions), Erdogan is going to carry on being a good boy?

I think we could happily do without Turkey in the EU. I'm a complete Eurosceptic, but Blair has the opportunity to do something that's not only good for the EU, but also for us by opposing Turkey's EU membership. But he'll carry on being Bush's little bitch.

I don't really care, because, as an American if I do care I'll get yelled at by Europeans for "interfering" in their affairs.

I think we could happily do without Turkey in the EU. I'm a complete Eurosceptic, but Blair has the opportunity to do something that's not only good for the EU, but also for us by opposing Turkey's EU membership. But he'll carry on being Bush's little bitch.
Unfortunatly he's not the only one. So far only the Austrians and to some extend the French are keeping their wits about. Unlike Bush his boytoy's Blair, Schroeder, Berlusconi or Balkenende.

Maybe Turkey will do better? Oh, and maybe they'll make peace with Israel.
They can´t make peace with Israel because they are not at war with Israel.

The real question here is: Do they make peace in Cyprus?
Do they recognize Cyprus and work on a solution on the Cyprus question?
And do they find a settlement with the Armenians in which they recognize the genocide during WW I? Still a taboo in the Turkish society.

And do they find a settlement with the Armenians in which they recognize the genocide during WW I? Still a taboo in the Turkish society.
Better yet. Will they make reparations.

Better yet. Will they make reparations.
I don´t think that this is an issue at all.
In that respect I think a country like Germany would agree with the legal argumentation of Turkey.
It is not a financial question.
It is a question about how Turkey deals with this chapter of its past.

I'd think letting Turkey join the EU would be a win-win. We know how it'd be a win for Turkey. But it'd be very beneficial to the EU as well. It's economy is expanding, and if it continues its liberalization, it'll become an integeral part of the EU's economy. Also, it'd help with the ageing crisis plaguing most of Europe, as Turkey is one of the few countries where fertility rates are above replacement. It'd also send a symbollic message to the Middle East that they, too, can intergrate with the world.

Also, it'd help with the ageing crisis plaguing most of Europe, as Turkey is one of the few countries where fertility rates are above replacement.
and also turkey is part of europe already...

I don´t think that this is an issue at all.
In that respect I think a country like Germany would agree with the legal argumentation of Turkey.
It is not a financial question.
It is a question about how Turkey deals with this chapter of its past.
Of course Schroeder and his butt buddies will bend over for Ankara. But I wonder how they will get rid off possible Armenian claims. I mean the Jews now found a new claim to make. And Karstadt will probably have to pay. As usual. :mad:

and also turkey is part of europe already...
Geographically, sorta. 3% of Turkey is in Europe. But politically and economically, it is not. It is a mixture of European, Russian, Greek, and Middle Eastern. Combine it with the indigeonous Turks, and we make for one rich history, and one promising future.

The EU is worried that soon it'll be weighed down with too much Social Security and too little tax money as the growth rate of the pop. is going down. They need Turks to support themselves! They would also be a great workforce, thus boosting the EU's economy.

Also, imagine how it would help Turkey to become part of the EU! It would be more European and more civilized, and could even be a bridge between Europe and the Islamic world. Istanbul will be so chic!

Combine it with the indigeonous Turks
The Turks are not indeginouse.

I know what the EU is thinking, "Mmmmm Turkey! Just in time for Christmas!" ;)

I know what the EU is thinking, "Mmmmm Turkey! Just in time for Christmas!" ;)
We usualy don't eat turkey at x-mas but goose.

We usualy don't eat turkey at x-mas but goose.

So you Europeans like to get "Goosed" at Christmas? :p

The EU is worried that soon it'll be weighed down with too much Social Security and too little tax money as the growth rate of the pop. is going down. They need Turks to support themselves! They would also be a great workforce, thus boosting the EU's economy.

Also, imagine how it would help Turkey to become part of the EU! It would be more European and more civilized, and could even be a bridge between Europe and the Islamic world. Istanbul will be so chic!

Right! The Europeans need Turks to support the workforce of the rest of the continent. That's why they are needed. Besides, Turkey is more similar to Greece than Arabia. It just seems more Mediterranean than Mid-Eastern.

Schroeder who ran his reelection campaign as Anti-US and Anti-Bush is Bush's But Buddy?

Then why in the Hell is their no Bundeswehr in Iraq?


Answer me that.

the eastern bloc wishes to say: come, join the eastern communist bloc turkey, we will overthrow the western capitolists that doubt you... they will not know what hit them..

Schroeder who ran his reelection campaign as Anti-US and Anti-Bush is Bush's But Buddy?

Then why in the Hell is their no Bundeswehr in Iraq?


Answer me that.
You aren't very bright. You answered your own question. With German soldiers poodeling behind the US into Iraq Schröder wouldn't be in charge right now.

You aren't very bright. You answered your own question. With German soldiers poodeling behind the US into Iraq Schröder wouldn't be in charge right now.

wow you missed my point. How astute of you, if Schroeder was Bush's lapdog as someone in the thread had said. Then why isn't their troops. I was pointing out he wasn't Bush's Lapdog.



Your Clueless

Geographically, sorta. 3% of Turkey is in Europe. But politically and economically, it is not. It is a mixture of European, Russian, Greek, and Middle Eastern. Combine it with the indigeonous Turks, and we make for one rich history, and one promising future.

Question: What is Europe?

I don't believe you can just pick up a pencil and draw the border of Europe. Western Turkey is certainly more European than Eastern Oekrain for example.

I think a 'modern European' is simply someone who lives somewhere near the European continent, and has sympathy for our common values.
-Social democracy
-Freedom of religion and secularism
-A cautious foreign policy => first think, then act.

If Turkey has sympathy for these values, and I think they do, I'll great them in the EU.

Besides, Turkey is more similar to Greece than Arabia. It just seems more Mediterranean than Mid-Eastern.

That's a fact. It's a common error to think that Turks are related to the Arab world. As previously stated, the Turkmen are a steppe people who originate from Central Asia (just like most of us European, we just entered the European continent a few centuries earlier).

But again, I challenge you to define 'Europe' before stating that Turkey is not a European country