NationStates Jolt Archive

Turkey in the EU? Ai or ney
Interesting points.

Europe is very secular. They just don't want Turkey in because Turkey is poor, and doesn't fit in with European social values. It's not really about Islam.

Sorry, I can't even think of Turkey without imagining Midnight Express or William S Burrough's novels...
Does Europe want them, or vice versa?

Well they have to sort a few things out first, like recognizeing cyprus and other stuff.

There's contention over Turkey's joining of the EU on cultural grounds. The culture of both the nations of the EU and Turkey are, of course, based on religion. However I'd rather keep religion ("Is the EU the union of Christendom") out of the issue.
If the problems with Turkey's apparently widespread abuse of human rights, and issues regarding their justice system, can be resolved to comply with EU law, then I see no reason why Turkey should not join, as long as they meet the economic criteria for joining of course.

Sorry, I can't even think of Turkey without imagining Midnight Express or William S Burrough's novels...
Does Europe want them, or vice versa?
they have aplied to enter the EU

Nay,

Their economy will bring the whole E.U down, thank g-d Britain does not have the Euro.

I think it will be a big mistake to let Turkey into the E.U right now, maybe once they can begin to sort our their problems, they will have more a chance.

DC is right, they don't really fit in with European social values, their culture is more asian that it is European.

Turkey in the EU? Ai or ney
I think you mean "yea or nay". And yes, I do think that Turkey should be allowed into the EU.

I thought Turkey was traditionally held to be an asian country, not a european one. How far should the EU extend itself geographically?

Does Europe want them, or vice versa?
It's not like the slimeballs in power are gonna ask us that question. Cause they know the answer would be an overwhelming no. Only the French have the decency to do so. *sigh* Where is a crazy assasin if you need one?
And I vote Ney.

i figured Turkey wasn't in Europe. It's more the Middle East. Then again, I might be wrong. I dont know where they draw the Europe line. And if it is part of Europe, let 'em in. Does it really hurt them?

i figured Turkey wasn't in Europe. It's more the Middle East. Then again, I might be wrong. I dont know where they draw the Europe line. And if it is part of Europe, let 'em in. Does it really hurt them?
No. It won't hurt THEM a bit. Just the rest of us.

http://www.sitesatlas.com/Maps/Maps/Eur-pol.gif
Cyprus and greece are already members so geographicially its not that much of a stretch. Anyway they probably wont be let in till like 10 years at least.

Ah, the "Sick man of Europe" wishes to join the EU?
I say let them, it may help to bring more power to the EU in many ways.

http://www.sitesatlas.com/Maps/Maps/Eur-pol.gif
Cyprus and greece are already members so geographicially its not that much of a stretch. Anyway they probably wont be let in till like 10 years at least.
Greece is on the European continent. Cyprus shouldn't have been added. Whats next? Israel???

I hope everyone here knows that the EU is more then a free trade agreement!

Ah, the "Sick man of Europe" wishes to join the EU?
I say let them, it may help to bring more power to the EU in many ways.
Yeah. Cause a bottomless financial pit and uncontrolabal mass immigration, with ethnic conflicts in the future, are at the foundation of those. :rolleyes:

Greece is on the European continent. Cyprus shouldn't have been added. Whats next? Israel???
What continent is Turkey on then? :D

Whats next? Israel???
Naw, the Europeans don't want no nasty Jews in their Union.

What continent is Turkey on then? :D
Asia. With 2% on the outskirts of Europe.

Von Witzleben: Israel does not even touch Europe. Part of turkey is in Europe, if you want to bring geograpy to the discussion.

Naw, the Europeans don't want no nasty Jews in their Union.
I sure don't want Israel.

Yeah. Cause a bottomless financial pit and uncontrolabal mass immigration, with ethnic conflicts in the future, are at the foundation of those. :rolleyes:


Or cause more reform, additions of land and agricultire, the enrichment of European culture on avrage, as well as possible idusutrial gains after a breif reform, allowing more production and thus supporting a stronger ecnomy.

There is always more then one way something can go.

Von Witzleben: Israel does not even touch Europe. Part of turkey is in Europe, if you want to bring geograpy to the discussion.
I know that. But if you admit a country of which the majority is in Asia. Get my drift? And Israel already said at least once that they could imagine to join the EU.

I sure don't want Israel.
What's not to like about Israel? It's got a strong economy, strong military, and a good democratic government.

uncontrolabal mass immigration, :
Thats what they said about the eastern european nations! Did you not want them to join either? Anyway the EU should definitely wait a while

Or cause more reform, additions of land and agricultire, the enrichment of European culture on avrage, as well as possible idusutrial gains after a breif reform, allowing more production and thus supporting a stronger ecnomy.

There is always more then one way something can go.
Enrichment of European culture? I wasn't aware that we were in need of any more "enrichment". Take a walk through Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Nuremburg, Paris, Berlin etc....We already have more then enough of that "enrichment".
And those other reforms? Who will have to pay for that? We will. And Turkey will cost as much as the 10 new members put together. Maybe even more. No thanks.

What's not to like about Israel? It's got a strong economy, strong military, and a good democratic government.
Well, to begin it's not anywhere near Europe.

Thats what they said about the eastern european nations! Did you not want them to join either? Anyway the EU should definitely wait a while
Unlike Turkey those countries have a reasonabal economy already. And recent polls in Turkey had the result that at least a third of the Turks is jumping to pack their bags and move here.

Enrichment of European culture? I wasn't aware that we were in need of any more "enrichment". Take a walk through Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Nuremburg, Paris, Berlin etc....We already have more then enough of that "enrichment".
And those other reforms? Who will have to pay for that? We will. And Turkey will cost as much as the 10 new members put together. Maybe even more. No thanks.

Lol, you seem to think culture is perfict without changing. You are wrong there, all culture changes, and this is where I was getting at. You add Turkey into the EU, then the Turks of course will mingle with the rest of Europe more openly, Europ will learn, the Turks will learn, everyone benifits.
Secondly, the EU pays the reforms, remember you have to risk lots f money to make lots of money.
You're thinking short term goals, I'm talking long term. Say if Turkey joins the EU in 5 years, and all that reform happens, then 25years from now the EU may be just bringing itself back to current status, but then again maybe not. But say 100 years from now, where will the EU be then?
Well, if they're still around, they'll have more land, and land is power in more ways then one. They'll have more industry, more jobs, and more international sway from a larger population.

The thing with Cyprus is that it has major connections with Britain and Greece.
On the point of Turkey, the major reason that they haven't joined the EU is that there have been major issues with human rights. The minimum wage level is appaling there that it would spoil the developing economies of the accesion countries.

Turkey in the EU, a chance for Europe to assert some influence and possibly direct positive change in a world hotspot! It would be nice but I doubt it, too controversial. better to allow the United States to continue to foot the bill and take the heat for this one.

God we need to get the United States out of the worlds affairs and let the world handle it themselves.

I mean the French and Belgians are doing a bang up job in Africa and hey this new German movement trying to force the immigrent Turks in Germany out, there's no racial purity movement there!

My apologies in advance!

[informative note]The 25 EU Members have ratified an agreement on future negiotiations with Turkey on their possible admission, which was a compromise agreed to by Balkenende and Erdogan.

Basically, the EU agreed to start negotiations with Turkey on their possible admission to the EU once the Cyprus issue is resolved. Until now Turkey refused to let Cyprus be a part of the European-Turkish customs union (the protocol of Ankara), but if Turkey signs and agrees to let Cyprus be a part of that union, negotiations on their possible admission of Turkey to the EU can commence on 3 October 2004

Also, there's still the human rights/judicial reforms issue, but that would be handled during future negotiations.[/informative note]

2005 is what you mean.

for- turkey is democracy, and she has some land in the area of europe. turkey ahs divided the religion from the state, and they modern countrey. ban them from join to europe union could increase the radicalism in turkey and in other islamic states.

against-turkey is poor islamic state. large part from europen public want them out from europe. turkies could use the union's benefits to "steal jobs from other states", or for terror attacks. if turkey join, the muslims will be 15% from europe, and could get more power. turkey with her 70 milions citizens will get much power in the union as the second big state.

I mean the French and Belgians are doing a bang up job in Africa
Their doing a better job then the US in Iraq. Not that that is hard.
and hey this new German movement trying to force the immigrent Turks in Germany out, there's no racial purity movement there!
Schröder? Man. You are realy well informed aren't you? :rolleyes: You must be an American.

Lol, you seem to think culture is perfict without changing. You are wrong there, all culture changes, and this is where I was getting at. You add Turkey into the EU, then the Turks of course will mingle with the rest of Europe more openly, Europ will learn, the Turks will learn, everyone benifits.
Secondly, the EU pays the reforms, remember you have to risk lots f money to make lots of money.
You're thinking short term goals, I'm talking long term. Say if Turkey joins the EU in 5 years, and all that reform happens, then 25years from now the EU may be just bringing itself back to current status, but then again maybe not. But say 100 years from now, where will the EU be then?
Well, if they're still around, they'll have more land, and land is power in more ways then one. They'll have more industry, more jobs, and more international sway from a larger population.
im not sure if it'll even take that long - once inside the free trade zone the Turkish economy is bound to expand moreso than it would on its own. Plus the extra investment from being in Europe will also bring great help to the Turkish economy.
But granted, the long term approach is what matters. Sure, in the short run there are going to be complications, but in the long run these will be resolved and there'll be a better outlook for both the EU and Turkey.

EU is the union of radical islam. At least it will be, if they dont stop their blind support of Middle Eastern terrorists.

Lol, you seem to think culture is perfict without changing.
You seem to think theres a single European culture that needs to be changed.
You are wrong.
You add Turkey into the EU, then the Turks of course will mingle with the rest of Europe more openly, Europ will learn, the Turks will learn, everyone benifits.
You add Turkey to Europe and soon there won't be any Europe anymore. Now that would please the Americans of course. Thats why they where pressing so hard to get the Turks in. But pleasing the Americans isn't something worth striving for. Just look at all the Turks who live here already. MANY of those don't even speak the language of the host country. Or just very, very badly. And those are 2nd and 3rd generations. The Turks will gain. Europe will lose. And also you seem to be under the impression that forced change of culture is something admirable. It may be for you but that doesn't mean that thats true for the rest of us.
I'm talking long term.
No. I'm thinking long term here as well.

Well, if they're still around.
And thats my point. They won't.

EU is the union of radical islam. At least it will be, if they dont stop their blind support of Middle Eastern terrorists.

I don't understand could you please clarify that. My knowledge isn't as good as it should be, especially on "Middle Eastern terrorists"

EU is the union of radical islam. At least it will be, if they dont stop their blind support of Middle Eastern terrorists.
:rolleyes: [sarcastic comment]

[insult]


thats my usual format

2005 is what you mean.
Yeah, I meant 2005. I just noticed that typo. ;)

I think that Turkey should be allowed in when they meet the economic requirements and clean up their human rights practices. Them being Muslim is not a problem. They are not a theocracy, so they have secularism. Turkey in the EU could give the west a valuable diplomatic line to the Middle East, which is giving us so much grief at the moment.

It's not like the slimeballs in power are gonna ask us that question. Cause they know the answer would be an overwhelming no. Only the French have the decency to do so. *sigh* Where is a crazy assasin if you need one?
And I vote Ney.
I hate the blatant Islamophobia coming from a large part of the anti-Turkey crowd. I'm talking about the French and German governments here.

I think that Turkey should be allowed in when they meet the economic requirements and clean up their human rights practices. Them being Muslim is not a problem. They are not a theocracy, so they have secularism. Turkey in the EU could give the west a valuable diplomatic line to the Middle East, which is giving us so much grief at the moment.
Yeah. :rolleyes: Thats what they keep telling us. Trying to sweeten the extremely bitter pill they shoving down our throats.


I hate the blatant Islamophobia coming from a large part of the anti-Turkey crowd. I'm talking about the French and German governments here.
And again. :rolleyes: You won't find bigger wannabe Turks then Schröder and Chiraq. Who supported Turkey from day one.

So what countries are actually against Turkey joining because everyone seems to think they all are and not at the same time :confused:

So what countries are actually against Turkey joining because everyone seems to think they all are and not at the same time :confused:
The only country that is against is Austria. In the rest the governments are all pro.

The only country that is against is Austria. In the rest the governments are all pro.

that is when its met certain targets not forgetting

that is when its met certain targets not forgetting
Oh comeon. It's all in the bag already. Everything around it is just a show their putting on. It was never a question if Turkey would join.

Oh comeon. It's all in the bag already. Everything around it is just a show their putting on. It was never a question if Turkey would join.

I don't share your cynecism but only time will tell

I don't share your cynecism but only time will tell
Günther Verheugen, the expansion commissioner who looks like a fat version of Gollum, accidentily flapped his mouth a few weeks back about the outcome of yesterdays decision. And oh wonder. They decided to take up negotiations.

that doesn't mean addmission, they will still need to meet the targets set.

that doesn't mean addmission, they will still need to meet the targets set.
Yeah. :rolleyes: Sure. Like Slovakia did in the case of their gipsy citizens.

Günther Verheugen, the expansion commissioner who looks like a fat version of Gollum, accidentily flapped his mouth a few weeks back about the outcome of yesterdays decision. And oh wonder. They decided to take up negotiations.

http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=8&theme=&usrsess=1&id=63271

looks like they are gonna start oct 2005 but they also have about 10 - 15 years before they join which could potentially be ample time to align with the EU

http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=8&theme=&usrsess=1&id=63271

looks like they are gonna start oct 2005 but they also have about 10 - 15 years before they join which could potentially be ample time to align with the EU
10 to 15 years is nothing. Considering that older members like Portugal, Spain and Greece still need financial shots. And they have been members for over 10 years. And then of course there's still the 10 new members who have been added just this year. And the 2 or 3 new ones who will be admitted in 2 years. Even if I wasn't completely against. A more appropriate approach would be to first fix the problems of the current members before you would even start negotiations with Turkey. And then 10 to 15 years is simply not enough.

And let's not forget Germany. They already admitted a "new member" about 15 years ago. I'm talking about the reunification. The failures of then are still felt today. Interesting fact. Back then it was the ruling CDU (Christian Democrats) who pushed for reunification while the SPD (Social Democrats), who is currently in power, favored a "priviledged partnership". And put reunification on halt untill the east German economy had consolidated itself. At least 10 years.