NationStates Jolt Archive

What should we do about sexism?

I can't believe that ridiculous thread on 'what should be done with feminism' is still around. Yes, let's just outlaw it, because women all over the world already have all the rights they'll ever need (sarcasm is pooling on my desk).

Why don't we deal with the wider issue at hand, which is gender inequality in general? Sexism, whether directed against women or men still runs rampant through the world. What are you personally doing to stop this? Or do you hate being 'told how to act'? Heaven's forbid you actually respect someone else's feelings instead of just blurting out any stupid statement and then saying, "it's their fault if they get upset!"

Here's what I do. I don't put up with sexism, from or directed at men or women. I don't care if it is directed at me personally or not. I fight situations that favour one gender UNFAIRLY over another. I don't make sexist jokes about any gender, and if someone IS offended by something I say, I don't get defensive, I just accept it. Does that mean all the fun is gone from my life? Oh yes, if I can't make jokes demeaning a particular group, I just mope. Please.

So what do you do?

So what do you do?

I just let it slide until someone like Drunk Commies delivers a bland witticism. Then I start getting really pissed.

What am I doing about sexism? Nothing. It's not my job. Go make me a sandwich, bitch.
Yes, that's very mature.

Nothing, in fact, I promote it.
Really? In what way exactly?

I just let it slide until someone like Drunk Commies delivers a bland witticism. Then I start getting really pissed.
That's the problem...so many people start it as a joke, but it becomes something more. I found his comment to be pretty offensive, and it leads me to make assumptions about his relationships with women. I mean, someone who says things like that, even as a joke, probably really means it to a certain extent. It's like people who make racist jokes saying, "Oh, but hey, I'm not racist!" Like they would say those things to a significant other who was of that race. If my husband said to me what Drunk Commies did, he better be out of range, and prepared to sleep on the couch.

Yes. I like the way you are not demeaning sexists. That clearly makes you better than others.

I have sex with both genders, so in a roundabout way, I'm practicing sexism in another form.

Thanks. I seldom get complimented on my maturity.
I'm sorry for that. Perhaps if maturity is something you WANT to be complimented on, you should work at highlighting that characteristic?

What am I doing about sexism? Nothing. It's not my job. Go make me a sandwich, bitch.
Nothing, in fact, I promote it.


How is celibacy working out for you two?

No sense of humor. What should any of us do about sexism? Isn't it enough to treat women as equals in our daily lives? Also, if you can't take a little joke, you are NOT equal to me. Too thin skinned and uptight.

Ah, there is the problem. You forgot the key component necessary in telling a joke.

It has to be funny.

How is celibacy working out for you two?

Speaking from experience, celibacy can be a very good way for one to realize one needs to work on one's relationship skills.

Yes. I like the way you are not demeaning sexists. That clearly makes you better than others.
Since sarcasm is difficult to identify in the written word, I am going to address this as such.

Do I think I am better than sexists? If by better, you mean superior, then no. I don't feel superior, or of less worth than any human. If by better you mean better able to put tolerance into action, even if I do not particularly agree with someone, then yes, I try to be. Ah, you say, buy doesn't that mean you should be tolerant of sexists and racists and so on and so forth?

No. I do not make anti-sexist jokes, or jokes about racists either. I am not going to discount the worth of a person simply because of their prejudices. I will however react to behaviours that I find offensive to myself or to others. I can tolerate people who hold sexist beliefs. What I can not tolerate is actions that may stem from that belief, especially if they denigrate or humiliate others.

Clear to all?

I'm shocked at the number of people here who seem to be sexist...tell me, if you will, why you support sexism?

No sense of humor. What should any of us do about sexism? Isn't it enough to treat women as equals in our daily lives? Also, if you can't take a little joke, you are NOT equal to me. Too thin skinned and uptight.

So you base a person's equality to you on whether or not they find your jokes amusing? That is an interesting way to value others.

As for not being able to take a joke...a joke needs to be funny not only to the person who tells it, but also to the person who is the 'butt' of the joke. Good-natured joking is different than statements or humour that is meant to demean or humiliate. Even if that is not your intent, you have to be AWARE that what you have said might still hurt someone's feelings. That's what mature people do...they may not agree that what they said or did was negative, but they don't become defensive and continue with the behaviour.

For those who are unable to approach this in a mature manner, society has other ways of dealing with these behaviours. They can be work-place policies dealing with harassment, they can be human rights ethics that a country may legislate into binding law. They can be societal restraints that makes it UNACCEPTABLE to make bigoted jokes in public.

Personally I just treat everyone as far as I personally can and give them any help they need … regardless of age sex beliefs race or any other category


I help by not adding to the problem and doing my best to help people

I have sex with both genders, so in a roundabout way, I'm practicing sexism in another form.


Not bad. Wife don't like my other partner though. But sexism is only an issue to her...

So you base a person's equality to you on whether or not they find your jokes amusing? That is an interesting way to value others.

As for not being able to take a joke...a joke needs to be funny not only to the person who tells it, but also to the person who is the 'butt' of the joke. Good-natured joking is different than statements or humour that is meant to demean or humiliate. Even if that is not your intent, you have to be AWARE that what you have said might still hurt someone's feelings. That's what mature people do...they may not agree that what they said or did was negative, but they don't become defensive and continue with the behaviour.

For those who are unable to approach this in a mature manner, society has other ways of dealing with these behaviours. They can be work-place policies dealing with harassment, they can be human rights ethics that a country may legislate into binding law. They can be societal restraints that makes it UNACCEPTABLE to make bigoted jokes in public.

Hear. hear

Ah, there is the problem. You forgot the key component necessary in telling a joke.

It has to be funny.

lol

good one ogiek

I for one don't support sexism. A person's worth should be based on his or her individual talents and skills. I do however have a somewhat tasteless sense of humor, and I don't think people should be so quick to take offense to a joke.

Seriously though...with friends, who know you well, and know when you are joking and when you are not, that may be fine. If you are in a workplace, however, telling these tasteless jokes, do you think that should go uncommented on? Is it okay to tell sexist jokes at work, within the hearing of those who may not realise it is a 'joke'?

50,000 battered women, and I've been eating mine plain all these years.

Drunk Commies, take notes. This is funny.

I'm shocked at the number of people here who seem to be sexist...tell me, if you will, why you support sexism?

Er... neither of the "I love sexism" options have any votes yet.

Quote of the day
and why doesnt the poll have a "dont give a fuck " option :(
I'm assuming that if you truly don't care, you wouldn't bother joining the discussion.

50,000 battered women, and I've been eating mine plain all these years.

Drunk Commies, take notes. This is funny.

I agree completely.

A joke needs to be funny not only to the person who tells it, but also to the person who is the 'butt' of the joke.

So...do any of you think this would be funny to a battered woman? Perhaps your humour is a little one-sided.

Sexist jokes can go both ways. Here is some help for women wanting to understand men.

What Do Men Really Mean

Haven't I seen you before? = Nice ass

I'm a Romantic = I'm poor

I need you = My hand is tired

I am different from all the other guys = I am not circumcised

I want a commitment = I'm sick of masturbation

You're the only girl I've ever cared about = You are the only girl who hasn't rejected me

I really want to get to know you better = So I can tell my friends about it

It's just orange juice, try it = 3 more shots, and she'll have her legs around my head

She's kinda cute = I want to have sex with her till I am blue

I don't know if I like her = She won't sleep with me

I miss you so much = I am so horny that my male-roommate is starting to look good

Was it good for you? = I'm insecure about my manhood

How do I compare with all your other boyfriends? = Is my penis really that small

I had a wonderful time last night = Who the hell are you

Do you love me? = I've done something stupid and you might find out

Do you 'really' love me? = I've done something stupid and you're going to find out sooner or later

How much do you love me? = I've done something really stupid and someone's on his/her way to tell you about it now

I have something to tell you = Get tested

I'll give you a call = I'd rather have my nipples torn off by wild dogs than see you again

I've been thinking a lot = You're not as attractive as when I was drunk

I think we should just be friends = You're ugly

I've learned a lot from you = Next

Why are men like computers?

10. They have a lot of data but are still clueless.
9. A better model is always just around the corner.
8. They look nice and shiny until you bring them home.
7. It is always necessary to have a backup.
6. They'll do whatever you say if you push the right buttons.
5. The best part of having either one is the games you can play.
4. In order to get their attention, you have to turn them on.
3. The lights are on but nobody's home.
2. Big power surges knock them out for the night.
1. Size does matter

No one said it DOESN'T go both ways. In fact, I was very specific about being against sexism directed towards women AND men. It would be hypocrytical of someone to oppose sexism for one gender, but not the other (or others, if you take transgenders into account).

Those aren't sexist, they're just true and funny at the same time.

Right, because all men are the same. Hmmm...stereotype much?

he's kinda cute = I want to have sex with her till I am blue

:confused:

meh, it's taking care of itself...but slowly..

No it doesn't. It has to be funny to a number of people; nothing more, nothing less.
I suppose you're right. The next time you attend a conference and some woman starts saying terrible things about men, don't feel uncomfortable by all the hilarity going on around you. At least THEY'RE laughing.

Listen, plenty of people hang around the water cooler telling Native jokes and thinking it's just hilarious. I don't, but then again, I happen to be Native. But HOW DARE I be offended by other people's happiness?

:confused:

Forgot the "S"

Yeah...there are no "joke rules"

Jokes don't even have to be funny. They can be corny or straight-up mean.

Almost all humor is based on pain. You're pain, their pain, my pain. Physical pain, emotional pain. Think of the classic banana peel. Guy falls, everybody laughs. Maybe someone has a theory why we evolved a response to pain involving laughter, but if you think about it almost all comics trade in pain.

I suppose you're right. The next time you attend a conference and some woman starts saying terrible things about men, don't feel uncomfortable by all the hilarity going on around you. At least THEY'RE laughing.

Listen, plenty of people hang around the water cooler telling Native jokes and thinking it's just hilarious. I don't, but then again, I happen to be Native. But HOW DARE I be offended by other people's happiness?

Calm down, tanto. Normally when a group of women are making "guy-jokes" I either laugh, or throw back some "who let you out of the kitchen" stuff. In the end, it normally ends with a bunch of laughter. This is how normal people handle the situation.

Now, the problem with this is because people like you take things personally, shove a stick up your ass, and make a big stink out of things. Get over yourself.

In any case, this is not just about jokes, and I hope we all realise that. Jokes are just a way of dealing with things as they are...they are often a reflection of beliefs held in truth by some people.

The wider issue is gender inequality. This goes both ways too. Some things are biased towards men, and others are biased towards women. In the West, we tend to have a HIGHER level of equity, but we are by no means 50/50. The rest of the world is not so lucky.

I'll stop making this an issue, when women stop being murdered by their spouses at such shocking rates. I'll stop making this an issue when women are no longer institutionally discriminated against in ANY country. I'll stop making this an issue when we stop throwing gender out there as a reason to treat someone as though they were inferior. Men and women are different, and I'm thankful for it, just as I am thankful that ALL people are different. I would prefer to celebrate those differences then argue about which differences make us 'better' or 'worse' than each other.

meh, it's taking care of itself...but slowly..
You mean that the idea of sexism has developed sentience and has begun to wish itself out of existence? Or are you referring to the hard work of both men and women to turn back the tide of gender inequality. I'd hardly call that 'taking care of itself'.

Calm down, tanto. Normally when a group of women are making "guy-jokes" I either laugh, or throw back some "who let you out of the kitchen" stuff. In the end, it normally ends with a bunch of laughter. This is how normal people handle the situation.

Now, the problem with this is because people like you take things personally, shove a stick up your ass, and make a big stink out of things. Get over yourself.

Yes, just like people get all upset about words like, '******'. Sheesh. Lighten up, right?

I don't think so. Tell your biased jokes to your friends, not to me, and not to a group of strangers and expect us to all laugh with you. It's about timing, and it's about context. Certainly you wouldn't make dead baby jokes to a woman who had just lost her child to SIDs?

Again, all I am saying is BE AWARE that you may be offending someone.

ACCEPT that you have offended them. You don't need to agree with them, but just accept it, and don't get defensive.

ACT to change your behaviour in that particular context. We don't come to work (hopefully) in our pajamas and swear at our co-workers. We may do these things among our friends. Context.

Wasnt the lone rangers humourless fuck of a native american sidekick called tonto?
Yes. Tonto means 'stupid man' in Spanish, something that the producers of the Lone Ranger no doubt were aware of.

Ooh... nice quote in my head


Men forget, but never forgive.
Women forgive, but never forget

I am not doing anything except treating everyone the same, women and men. This ultimately ends in equality being the normal state. Quotas for women and such things lead to a wrong sense of achieved gender equality, it has to start in the head.

I think there would have to be a first time for me to attend a conference to begin with. Oh BTW I won't feel uncomfortable, if the jokes are funny at all I'd probably laugh.

You're offended by happiness? Thats kinda fucked up.

Just get over it. Don't go around feeling so oppressed. I agree that sexism exists, and it is a problem. But sexism is the glass ceiling, and massive wage inequality; not a couple blue jokes.

I agree...this has become a thread about jokes, when that was certainly not the attention...frankly it's the least of my worries.

As for your comment about being offended by happiness...go back and read my post please. I was referring to the 'happiness' evoked by telling blatantly racist jokes ABOUT MY RACE. Sure, they were quite happy to say denigrating things about my ethnicity while I was around. Does that mean happiness offends me? No. Their jokes offend me.

Why is it my job to make others feel better about their insecurities?
Please wake up. You are CAUSING THOSE INSECURITIES with jokes that DENIGRATE OTHERS. That means, if you are telling someone a joke, meant to demean them or someone within hearing, you are being hurtful. Sure, they could shrug it off, and just think you're a jerk, but why should they have to put up with it? Hopefully, if you do this at work, they will complain, and you will be reprimanded.

Jokes are not all meant to demean. There are sexist jokes, and then there are jokes made about sexism. There is a difference. Why do you have such a problem with dealing with the fact that no matter your intention, sometimes someone is going to be offended? Hopefully you would be mature enough to discuss this with them, rather than being dismissive. Hopefully through discussion, you could both understand each other a little better. I'm not saying don't tell jokes...or even don't tell demeaning jokes...just don't be offended YOURSELF if the demeaning jokes get a negative reaction. Just learn not to tell those kinds of jokes in that context.

It's called common courtesy. Again, I ask if you would tell dead baby jokes to a woman who had lost her baby to SIDs. Or do you just go ahead, because her 'insecurities' aren't your problem?

Yes. Tonto means 'stupid man' in Spanish, something that the producers of the Lone Ranger no doubt were aware of.
While tanto, which Steel Butterfly wrote is a japanese knife that does not end in a point but an angled blade.

As someone who actually has a friend who lost a baby to SIDs last week, I'd like to tell you that I find your jokes disgusting, offensive and hurtful.

It also says something about the level of maturity of people who think something like this, in this context, is amusing.

What am I doing about sexism?

Treeting the men and women I meet in the same way. A simple idea.

What am I doing about sexism?

Treeting the men and women I meet in the same way. A simple idea.

Well, all except the laying with them part.

Well ... I gots me a wife, a mother, and two daughters ... I think I'm doin' my part.

Well ... I gots me a wife, a mother, and two daughters ... I think I'm doin' my part.
Sexist! why don't you have a husband? huh? Aren't men good enough for you? :mad: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :mad: :headbang:

lmao...

So your name is legless pirates? Does that include third "legs"? Why don't any of your pirates have "legs"? Why aren't people with "legs" pirates? You sexist bastard!
A lot of chicks are pirates... I got raped by one last year :(

But I get raped by male pirates too, so I'm no sexist

Sexist! why don't you have a husband? huh? Aren't men good enough for you? :mad: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :mad: :headbang:

lol! men r teh suck!!!11!!one!!1

I'd have a husband, but GWB said I couldn't.

Arr I'm going to raise yer mizzenmast!
Hey baby. I wouldn't mind being marooned with you ;)

What am I doing about sexism? Nothing. It's not my job. Go make me a sandwich, bitch.


This just made my weekend. Way too funny! I have no control over my celebacy so I may as well have a laugh at this.

I'm not sure whats more sad.

That you "gentlemen" get pleasure out of this juvenile show of group behavior (way too go guys, in the scheme of things, you're a LEMMING).

Or that you completely marginalized a human being in their attempt to discuss something they feel as important (congrats guys, your a lemming of an apathetic society, don't complain when your country falls apart!)

-EL Kim

Hi this is the internet. Is a very serious and important thing, and we should treat everything on it with the utmost concern. Obviously the fact that we didn't take one person's crazy ideas seriously means we are evil immature bastards, because obviously we must treat everything on the internet with such great reverance!

Also: I hope it was really worth registering just to bitch at us. We are obviously going to hold your opinion in high esteem, even though we didn't do that with the other person. Your plan is well thought out and oh so clever!

Yes, someone who disagrees with sexism has 'crazy ideas'. I'm oh so radical.

The point that was being made to you by the other poster is that if you don't want to deal with an issue that IS a serious one, then don't. Your offensive reaction to the topic is a knee-jerk method of dealing with something you don't want to think about on a personal level, and are unable to analyse with any amount of maturity. The NS forum is open and public, yes, but the majority of users do have some basic respect for others, and are willing, in fact EAGER to engage in meaningful conversation. That you are not, is patently obvious.

If you wish to be frivolous, or offensive, you have that right. I have the right not to waste my time reading your comments or giving them any more value than they are due, considering the fact that they DO NOT address the issue, nor are they based in anything but a desire for attention, negative or otherwise.

Dear forum posters:

Either stay on topic or start your own.

Carry on.

Have any of you every experienced blatant sexism? My favourite is walking into a computer store with my husband, who doesn't even know where the 'on' button is (he really doesn't..he hates computers!) and being completely ignored by the sales staff. My husband will even redirect them to me, letting them know that I am going to be doing the spending, and they just nod, and talk to me THROUGH my husband.

At least car dealerships are becoming more aware of how they treat women..

Have any of you every experienced blatant sexism? My favourite is walking into a computer store with my husband, who doesn't even know where the 'on' button is (he really doesn't..he hates computers!) and being completely ignored by the sales staff. My husband will even redirect them to me, letting them know that I am going to be doing the spending, and they just nod, and talk to me THROUGH my husband.

At least car dealerships are becoming more aware of how they treat women..
Have you ever walked into a jewelry store with your kid, and found out that your kid was completely ignored? AGEISM! Or more likely, on average, you're more likely to need assistance than your 3 year old. On average, a man needs assistance at a computer store more than often than a woman does. Now if you ask for help, and then get ignored, that might be a real issue.

Have you ever walked into a jewelry store with your kid, and found out that your kid was completely ignored? AGEISM! Or more likely, on average, you're more likely to need assistance than your 3 year old. On average, a man needs assistance at a computer store more than often than a woman does. Now if you ask for help, and then get ignored, that might be a real issue.

Ah, but you missed the part where my husband told them he had nothing to do with the purchase, and I WAS still ignored. As for men needing more help in a computer store, where are you getting that from? I'm not sure if you are saying men are more into computers than women, or visa versa. In any case, computer stores are not supposed to be geared towards one gender (as lingerie or men's suits stores are). I realise that it probably isn't company policy to ignore women customers, but it sure has been my experience that this happens. When I mentioned the car dealerships, it is because a policy HAS been enacted by the major ones to include women in the process, since they are either the main purchasers, or at least will have a say in what is purchased. Ignoring me, or patronisingly asking my husband, "How much is this going to cost you?" irks me, and makes me not want to return to that store. Seems like a poor business practice to me.

Ah, but you missed the part where my husband told them he had nothing to do with the purchase, and I WAS still ignored. As for men needing more help in a computer store, where are you getting that from? I'm not sure if you are saying men are more into computers than women, or visa versa. In any case, computer stores are not supposed to be geared towards one gender (as lingerie or men's suits stores are). I realise that it probably isn't company policy to ignore women customers, but it sure has been my experience that this happens. When I mentioned the car dealerships, it is because a policy HAS been enacted by the major ones to include women in the process, since they are either the main purchasers, or at least will have a say in what is purchased. Ignoring me, or patronisingly asking my husband, "How much is this going to cost you?" irks me, and makes me not want to return to that store. Seems like a poor business practice to me.
Computer stores are geared towards men. The majority of people who use computers are men. Maybe 90%, maybe 51%, it doesn't matter, the majority of people who use computers are men. You play by averages. On average, a chair will hold you up if you sit in it. Do you place several weights on it first to make sure? No, you assume the average holds until otherwise proven. If you and your husband walk into a computer store, and the sales person goes up to your husband and asks if he can help him, and you told him it was you that needed help, and he said "No, we don't sell computers to women," that's sexism. If he just didn't offer to help you, that's stereotyping. Which isn't a bad thing, since you do it all the time, with chairs among other things.

I realise that it probably isn't company policy to ignore women customers, but it sure has been my experience that this happens. Seems like a poor business practice to me.

I once had a bad experience with a Major Computer Manufacturer. Their machine died 12 days after it arrived. I called, they sent a tech who replaced all the guts of the machine. One DAY after the 30 day no-quibble warranty period, it dies again.

I call to return it. They say they are charging me a restocking fee. I tell them no way, it died after 15 days. They argue it died after 31. I said, "You replaced all the components!" They said didn't matter.

For the next three hours, I played the "This is the problem -- you won't solve it? Give me your supervisor," game, until I got so pissed off that when my final support person -- a woman, finally -- got on the phone I told her, "Hey, I've got all day -- if I need to talk to everyone in the company till I get to Mr. X (their CEO) I will do it.
"I am a desktop publisher. I use a computer professionally. I did not open the package and say ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww it clashes with my decor! I did not break a nail and say, "Send it back, send it back, evil machine!" I have what amounts to a paperweight I paid several thousand dollars for, and it failed first 12 days after I received it, then died completely after your tech fixed it! It is a LEMON, and I will NOT be paying a DIME for it!"

She chuckled after I said it didn't go with my decor, and let me have my say....

...then sent me the next better system BEFORE they even received the one I was sending back. I sincerely doubt I'd have gotten anywhere if I had not gotten her, and if I had not indicated my willingness to contact their CEO directly concerning their business practices.

I try my hardest not to be sexist. And I try to keep other's form going overboard. I do however try to be a gentleman, (hold doors, walk on the outside on a busy street, make sure the lady is served first etc.) and have gotten in trouble for it. So, is it sexist to be a gentleman? Honest answers please. And input from the ladies would be VERY much appreciated.

I try my hardest not to be sexist. And I try to keep other's form going overboard. I do however try to be a gentleman, (hold doors, walk on the outside on a busy street, make sure the lady is served first etc.) and have gotten in trouble for it. So, is it sexist to be a gentleman? Honest answers please. And input from the ladies would be VERY much appreciated.
I'm not a lady, but I think I can answer this. Sexism is treating people differently based on no other reason than their sex. So yes it is. However, some women appreciate it. Some do not.

Yes, just like people get all upset about words like, '******'. Sheesh. Lighten up, right?

I don't think so. Tell your biased jokes to your friends, not to me, and not to a group of strangers and expect us to all laugh with you. It's about timing, and it's about context. Certainly you wouldn't make dead baby jokes to a woman who had just lost her child to SIDs?

Again, all I am saying is BE AWARE that you may be offending someone.

ACCEPT that you have offended them. You don't need to agree with them, but just accept it, and don't get defensive.

ACT to change your behaviour in that particular context. We don't come to work (hopefully) in our pajamas and swear at our co-workers. We may do these things among our friends. Context.

You seem to believe you have a right to not be offended. I'm afraid this is not the case, just because you dont like an idea or a personality doesnt mean you should be allowed to supress it. Its called free speach, which is a right. If you really dont want to be offended by anything I would think going on the internet is a bad idea. If you really dont want to lock yourself in your house with a pillow over your head for the rest of your life.
:)

Originally Posted by Branin
I try my hardest not to be sexist. And I try to keep other's form going overboard. I do however try to be a gentleman, (hold doors, walk on the outside on a busy street, make sure the lady is served first etc.) and have gotten in trouble for it. So, is it sexist to be a gentleman? Honest answers please. And input from the ladies would be VERY much appreciated.

I'm not a lady, but I think I can answer this. Sexism is treating people differently based on no other reason than their sex. So yes it is. However, some women appreciate it. Some do not.

I hold doors for both genders. I have never gotten a negative response from a man. Some ladies however find it offensive. It is as if I am saying "You are so weak I must hold this door open or you will surely be crushed by the weight". When really it is common courtesy to hold a door open for someone no matter which gender. I have had doors held for me by both genders and I only offer a polite thank you. Why is it so often assumed that a man is being sexist if he just does something nice? And why is it necessary to return kindness with rudeness?

One of the problems with some feminists is the same that you find with any group that feels alienated in some way. They start looking for things they can point to and say "Aha you're thus and such" turning what is a meaningless gesture into something completely blown out of all reasonable proportion.

I had a boss that was a flaming feminist. If she didn't get a promotion it was a "Glass Ceiling". If she felt slighted by her male boss in some way he was a sexist pig. She completely ignored the fact that she was just a big mouthed and incompetent woman who used company time to attend "women's groups" and plan "womens activities" and completely ignored her job duties.

Life is not fair. Repeat, Life is not fair. Nobody owes you anything. As long as you pigeon hole yourself in some "group" or other, the more you promote those things you despise by highlighting them, the longer they will stay around. If you want to make a difference start a business that treats everybody fairly. If you are right, and this is a major problem in society, then you will become the richest woman on earth. Every race, religion, creed, variously sexually oriented persons will flock to your business because you will be the only one who treats them the same.

I hate the fact that my wife cannot go and get the car repaired because some schmo will double talk her until every part on the car is replaced, but when I take the car in all I am told is what is really the problem. I also hate the fact that if I need help in a department store every woman customer in the place gets helped first before I am even noticed. I usually end up walking out and saying screw it. Hey, that's life, T.S., or whatever you may want to call it. I don't whine or mope about it. If you don't like the way a business treats you don't do business with them and let them know why. If they want your business they will change, if they don't want your business they probably won't stay in business very long.

As long as there is some aspect that humans find different about each other (male-female, black-white etc..), we will continue to treat each other differently. We are all at the core, just dumb animals. Trying to complete an evolution from knuckle scrapping baboons to enlightened gods (Cough, Hack). We are still very much driven by instinct. Instinct says-fear what is different. So we belittle what we fear, make fun of it, try to make it smaller than us. Then we no longer have to fear it.

Oh and I don't take offense at jokes made at the expense of men because I have a healthy self esteem that is not threatened by them. In most I can see a kernal of truth. Some are even funny.

Sinuhue, I understand that you think that sexism is a rampant problem. Although everyone is entitled to thier opinions, your's is just plain wrong. You need to realize that most stereotypes are based off of FACT. It has been my experience that women are baffled by technology, owing to the fact that most technology users are men. Men think logically and mathmaticly, like a machine would, and as such, they use machines more. Women think emotionally, with their feelings. They feel the purpose of a conversation is to share feelings and reach a higher emotional level. Men veiw conversation as a way to attain knowledge, or crack the occasional dirty joke. (I know WAY too many already.) It is only logical to think that a man is more likely to be making the descicions. I challenge you to go into an arcade or internet cafe and find out the ration of males to females. It's bound to be pretty damn high.

As for me, I'm battling sexism (insofar as it exists in my community, which it doesn't) by treating men and women equally. I feel that gender equality is a noble goal, but, like world peace or cold fusion, an impossible one. Mankind is far too bigoted and ignorant to be completely unbiased, sadly.

As for the whole dirty jokes thing, I give you this gem from Family Guy:

"Why do women have boobies? So you got something to look at while you're talking to them!"

Sick: yes. Perverted: yes. Disrespectful: hell yes. But it's funny. That's why Family Guy is so popular. Without racist or sexist jokes, life would be bland. You need to get whatever it is out of your ass and realize that you're going to have to accept it, and even laugh with it. I for one delight at the proposition of a joke at the expense of half Irish long haired gamers from Illinois. You should too.[/rant]

What should we do about sexism?

I can't believe that ridiculous thread on 'what should be done with feminism' is still around. Yes, let's just outlaw it, because women all over the world already have all the rights they'll ever need (sarcasm is pooling on my desk).

Why don't we deal with the wider issue at hand, which is gender inequality in general? Sexism, whether directed against women or men still runs rampant through the world. What are you personally doing to stop this? Or do you hate being 'told how to act'? Heaven's forbid you actually respect someone else's feelings instead of just blurting out any stupid statement and then saying, "it's their fault if they get upset!"

Here's what I do. I don't put up with sexism, from or directed at men or women. I don't care if it is directed at me personally or not. I fight situations that favour one gender UNFAIRLY over another. I don't make sexist jokes about any gender, and if someone IS offended by something I say, I don't get defensive, I just accept it. Does that mean all the fun is gone from my life? Oh yes, if I can't make jokes demeaning a particular group, I just mope. Please.

So what do you do?
Well, I make sure my female friends always come first. ( don't make anything more out of that statement than the language makes on the face of it! ) :)

Men think logically and mathmaticly, like a machine would, and as such, they use machines more. Women think emotionally, with their feelings.

actually, that is a social stereotype, and has no basis in neurology or actual human psychology. repeated experiments and studies have demonstrated that males are actually far more likely to "think emotionally" than females, and have far more volitile and poorly-contained mood swings.


They feel the purpose of a conversation is to share feelings and reach a higher emotional level. Men veiw conversation as a way to attain knowledge, or crack the occasional dirty joke.

again, that is not supported by research. in Western culture, males have been shown to use conversation and communication primarily as a means of securing, defending, or expanding their social status, while women use communication primarily to exchange/gather information.


I challenge you to go into an arcade or internet cafe and find out the ration of males to females. It's bound to be pretty damn high.

and i challenge you to look at the populations of higher education centers: there are currently 1.5 females for every male, in America.

I feel that gender equality is a noble goal, but, like world peace or cold fusion, an impossible one. Mankind is far too bigoted and ignorant to be completely unbiased, sadly.

if you believe that, then you are not acting to combat sexism at all. fatalism isn't practical, it's emotional...why would a cold, rational, sensible man be falling into such a trap?


As for the whole dirty jokes thing, I give you this gem from Family Guy:

"Why do women have boobies? So you got something to look at while you're talking to them!"

Sick: yes. Perverted: yes. Disrespectful: hell yes. But it's funny. That's why Family Guy is so popular. Without racist or sexist jokes, life would be bland. You need to get whatever it is out of your ass and realize that you're going to have to accept it, and even laugh with it.

the best humor has a grain of truth in it. the joke is funny because it expresses the absurdity of sexism; it would be more than possible to have such humor if sexism did not exist, because there are many other things which can be vectors for absurd reductionism. if you think that life would be bland without racist or sexist humor then i would strongly suggest you develop an actual sense of humor soon, because you are really missing out.

i tell sexist jokes all the damn time, for the record, and i often laugh at sexist jokes (though many are simply not funny). however, i wouldn't feel my life was bland if such humor evaporated over night, because there are plenty of other shortcomings and trials of life that can make for excellent jokes. once you live a little more you will come to recognize that.

and then there was the one where Peter said, "Of course a man made it, Lois. It's a commercial, not a delicious Thanksgiving dinner."