NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't get Christmas. Jesus wasn't born on January 25. He actually wasn't born anytime around then. Yet we still try to "keep Christ in Christmas." He was never there. Christmas is a holiday for the biggest fictional character conspiracy ever (Santa Clause). Jesus was a person, but he wasn't anything special. He could do a few magic tricks. Wow. So can Davids Blaine. Blaine is way kooler. He can levitate :cool:

the thing is... before christmas was instated as a christian holoday (by the way, islamic belief is that the prophet Jesus was born around august), the common pagan celebration was Yule, where a fat elder dressed in red would descend down the chimmeny bringing gifts.

but it isn't christman anymore is it? it's x-mas

You're right, he wasn't born on January 25th, but given that isn't Christmas, that is irrelevant. Also, he healed the sick and raised the dead and by god, David Blaine can't do either. He was "special", hence why we have 2 major holidays based on events in his life.

...you meant DECEMBER 25, right?

Anyway...

The Winter Solstice has been around a lot longer than 2,000 years. It was so universally popular that the Church simply could not abolish the celebration of this day, and of the human life so vividly symbolized by the Solstice Festival.

So what did the Church do? They stole it! Of course they did! What else can we expect the Church to do when she cannot produce her own good things?

What was once the universal Winter Festival of the Northern Hemisphere was given a Christian name and some vaguely Christian meaning. This move backfired spectacularly in that almost every single point of symbolism that you will find in even the most "Christian" of Christmas celebrations predates the Christian religion by millennia. Humanity has been collecting and honing this symbolism for all this time, because the symbolism of the Winter Festival is nothing more than a very powerful metaphor for the cycles of human life -- that is, the cycles of humanistic life!

When you found out that there's no "Santa Claus," what did you discover? Tell me! What did you learn when you saw that it was your family and neighbors and, in many cases, anonymous people simply giving -- humans, all -- who sacrificially procured these wonderful gifts, who physically carried them, who personally placed them at the base of your tree -- because it's Christmas?

And what does gift-giving, this most prominent of Christmas traditions, have even remotely to do with "The Gospel of Jesus Christ"? How could this possibly relate to "God's Plan of Salvation"?

Neither the Christian faith nor any other can silence the vividly humanistic statement that is at the very core of the Christmas holiday -- however you may see it; however you might celebrate it; whatever you happen to call it!

(source:http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8428.htm)

EDIT:Formatting. And yes, it's somewhat biased, but it gets the vital info across.

You're right, he wasn't born on January 25th, but given that isn't Christmas, that is irrelevant. Also, he healed the sick and raised the dead and by god, David Blaine can't do either. He was "special", hence why we have 2 major holidays based on events in his life.
:confused: what's the other holiday?

Good Friday and/or Easter Sunday.

:confused: what's the other holiday?
That would be Easter.

...you meant DECEMBER 25, right?

Anyway...



(source:http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8428.htm)

EDIT:Formatting
I admit, yeah, there's some things that humans simply want to do, and giving gifts and celebrating is one of them... I guess the only option for the church at the time was to justify it by saying its a holy day

That would be Easter.
easter is from the pagan day of ostara where spring was celebrated. And uess the animal? the most reproductive animal ont he world, the bunny

sorry guys. i kinda fukked up there, didnt i? im kinda high :D David Blaine's still kooler though :gundge:

just another fun tidbit of information... I don't like santa claus...

The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized Lego set (2 lb.), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300lb. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see #1) can pull 10 TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with 8, or even 9, reindeer. We need 214,200. This increases the payload - not counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. This is four times the weight of the ocean-liner Queen Elizabeth.

I found that on a website... I think it was brainofbrain or something...

I don't get Christmas. Jesus wasn't born on January 25. He actually wasn't born anytime around then. Yet we still try to "keep Christ in Christmas." He was never there. Christmas is a holiday for the biggest fictional character conspiracy ever (Santa Clause). Jesus was a person, but he wasn't anything special. He could do a few magic tricks. Wow. So can Davids Blaine. Blaine is way kooler. He can levitate :cool:

I urge you to read The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel. Jesus wasn't some "magician", he was the son of God. Of course he was something special, he died on the crossfor your sins. Believe what you want, but don't try to pass him off as a fraud.

and here's more...

353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles/second creates enormous air resistance. This will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as a spacecraft reentering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within .00426 of a second. Meanwhile, Santa, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250 lb. Santa, being very conservative in terms of guessing Santa's weight, would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 lb. of force.

1) Jesus, or Yeshua of Nazareth, was an actual person, one of about 30 "prephets" of the time.

2) Christmas is on December 25th. This used to be the day of the Festival of Light, a pagan holiday.

3) Jesus was born sometime in March, according to history. That's when taxes were taken, in March.

4) The only reason the Christians celebrate the birthday of their prophet is because the Romans they were trying to convert wouldn't accept Christianity unless they were allowed to celebrate certain festivals they already had. This is also one of the reasons Easter is celebrated when it is and why there are rabbits and birds on Easter.

I urge you to read The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel. Jesus wasn't some "magician", he was the son of God. Of course he was something special, he died on the crossfor your sins. Believe what you want, but don't try to pass him off as a fraud.
tell me... I've been wondering this for quite a while... do Christians actually worship the prophet Jesus? Or is it something figurative?

hahahaha. exploding reindeer

1) Jesus, or Yeshua of Nazareth, was an actual person, one of about 30 "prephets" of the time.

2) Christmas is on December 25th. This used to be the day of the Festival of Light, a pagan holiday.

3) Jesus was born sometime in March, according to history. That's when taxes were taken, in March.

4) The only reason the Christians celebrate the birthday of their prophet is because the Romans they were trying to convert wouldn't accept Christianity unless they were allowed to celebrate certain festivals they already had. This is also one of the reasons Easter is celebrated when it is and why there are rabbits and birds on Easter.

He wasn't a prophet according to Christians. According to Muslims he was but not according to Christians.

Christmas stems from Christ Mass (which is actually linked more to the death of Christ, rather than his birth). The time of the year and about 90% of the common traditions (wreaths, trees, presents) of Christmas came from Roman and various pagan rituals surrounding the celebration of the Winter Solstice as a political manuever to recruit people away from pagan festivities and polytheistic religions.

http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm

Pretty much the same story for Easter and the Easter bunny. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm)

tell me... I've been wondering this for quite a while... do Christians actually worship the prophet Jesus? Or is it something figurative?

Not prophet. Son of God according to Christians. Prophet according to Muslims.

Christmas is important to Christians. Regardless of how it started (The Roman church absorbed more pagan traditions than just Saturnalia, you know), it's the day that was chosen for the Christian religion to celibrate a very important figure in their faith. To non-Christians, he was just some guy, but to Christians he is much more important than that, so they choose to celebrate his birth, and they chose that day.

As early as the 4th century, they celebrated the Feast of Nativity. By the 11th century they called it Christes maesse - "festival of Christ", which is where the word Christmas comes from.

Santa Clause, as we all know, comes from Saint Nicholas, who it is said gave gifts to the needy (especially children) in the 4th century. The Dutch called him Sinterklaas, which is where the name Santa Claus comes from. It wasn't until the late 1800's that he was turned into the modern American consumer-whore he is today by Coca-Cola. 1931 was when Coca-Cola gave him the fully-human look he has today in a bunch of advertisements that they ran. So, Christmas was not a consumer-driven greedfest holiday until many centuries after it had been established as a religious holiday.

I just don't see why it's such a big deal to people who aren't Christians...if you are old enough to realize that it is a major holiday in the Christian religion that you don't agree with, then you are old enough to choose not to celebrate it, and you are probably old enough to be respectful and mature toward those who do celebrate it. I'm sure you're not volunteering to work that day, instead of taking it off paid, and I'm sure you don't decline your Christmas bonuses or presents, and most of you are out there buying presents to give to people (which means YOU are making it the commercial holiday it is), then complaining to the Christians about how "stupid" their holiday is. You want a purely commercial holiday without meaning - Mother's Day, Father's Day, Grandparents' Day, etc...Why don't you pick a different holiday for once? Or is it too easy for you to rag on the Christians?

who'se complaining? I jsut don't like Santa, I think he's sinister...

Not prophet. Son of God according to Christians. Prophet according to Muslims.
yeah, but when I ask people this, thney usually say; we are all sons of God... then I say no, we're jsut creations... and it goes on in a pattern like that so I'm really confused... literal son or figurative son?

who'se complaining? I jsut don't like Santa, I think he's sinister...

Santa doesnt respect the union laws.

yeah, but when I ask people this, thney usually say; we are all sons of God... then I say no, we're jsut creations... and it goes on in a pattern like that so I'm really confused... literal son or figurative son?

Literal son. Born to the "Virgin" Mary.

literal son.....we are figurative children of God when we become christians...

Literal son. Born to the "Virgin" Mary.
yeah, but that doesn't neccessarily mean literal, you could just as easily say that Jesus was a miracle... The sheer mechanics of a divine being mating with a human.. i don't want to go there...

1
This is also one of the reasons Easter is celebrated when it is and why there are rabbits and birds on Easter.

And why Easter is a Lunar festival (i.e. always a full moon). This makes no sense from the perspective of "jesus died on this day" which day? If he died on a particualr day then why does Easter move around?

And why Easter is a Lunar festival (i.e. always a full moon). This makes no sense from the perspective of "jesus died on this day" which day? If he died on a particualr day then why does Easter move around?
only christmas is on the solar calendar because at the time when the new caendar was being initiated (georgian). Christmas was not included that year becaus ethey had to make up for certain time. People got mad, so they decided to make it an unchangeable date. EVerything else is lunar because that's the calendar that was used at the time... it works better that it does in America because this is middle eastern area where the moon is more reliable.

darn... I don't think anything I jsut wrote made sense... my bad, I'm sleepy..

Easter is 40 days after lent.....

It's extremely important if you own a retail store.