NationStates Jolt Archive

I see alot of talk about religion and politics in this forum but not much is said about your individual philosophical viewpoints, often they have just as much of an influence how we intereact in the world as relgion and politics. So here are my philosphical views

I am a nihilist, I deny that life as any meaning whatsoever, I deny any absolute moral foundations. I deny that anything can be truly known expect perhaps the here and now.

I am antinomian, because of my nihilistiic foundation I also beleive that laws, rules,traditions and other such stuff is a hedge designed to keep the individual within certain boundaries as specified by the socio-economic group to which they belong, I beleive that this has been detrimental to individual growth and responsibillity, by forcing others to adhere to laws and tradition, they become total dependents on such, unable to think for themselves.

I am a libertine, since i beleive that life is basically meaningless, that the only thing you can know is the here and now, and basically if you know what you are doing , you can do anything you want. Then this is the only life (or moment) you have and there is nothing more to expect, you might as well as enjoy for all that it is worth. Hell, if this is it, enjoy it, why bother with all the BS that keeps you from enjoying your life more fully?

So thats some of my philosophical views...I know they may seem a bit strange...but they are mine and I enjoy them.

Dialectical Materialism. Just kidding. I don't know the name for my philosophy. I'm skeptical about anything that doesn't come with evidence, and beleive that people are just animals with enough intelligence to raise them above nature.

Dialectical Materialism. Just kidding. I don't know the name for my philosophy. I'm skeptical about anything that doesn't come with evidence, and beleive that people are just animals with enough intelligence to raise them above nature.
Oh that one's easy Yorkism and your perfect religion Satanism. That simple.

I am a nihilist, I deny that life as any meaning whatsoever
I personally have nothing wrong with your personal views. Except this one, in which the point of life is to reproduce. Basic biology there.

My personal view is basically "Live and let live". I think that the environment should come before all else, and that knowledge, learning, and education should be valued a little more than they currently are. I believe that life is fleeting. I believe that everything naturally do things for their own interest, as that is how all life is. The exception to this is in social organisms, which sometimes do things for the better of all. Ants are the best example of a fully social creature. I believe that there is no soul, that all thoughts are merely electrons passing form neuron to neuron. Some people argue that this removes the beauty from life. I argue that this makes life all the more beautiful, the cyclic nature of all things. To know that my matter will breed future life, and seeing life continue on until the Earth is engulfed in the fiery orb of the sun (a little poeticised, so you know).

My basic philosophy is that government is an evil corrupt place that their only purpose is to oppress/suppress citizens that become too powerful. Life has no purpose and is a chance happening.

I am a catholic because it is the only thing that makes sense in my logic and kept Europe in the light during the medieval ages

Oh that one's easy Yorkism and your perfect religion Satanism. That simple.
Nope, satanists beleive in magic rituals. To my mind that's pure bullshit.

Many would argue that the dark ages were caused by and sustained by catholicism, at least in part.

I am Catholic, communist, and have a variety of views on various topics that might seem opinionated and certainly would not be predictable (ex: taking a right-wing stance on one issue, like abortion, while being very liberal on another, like homosexuality). I believe that life must have a meaning, or else it isn't worth living. If I'm wrong, you aren't really able to make fun of me after we're dead, right?

Many would argue that the dark ages were caused by and sustained by catholicism, at least in part.

The Dark Ages were caused by a revertion back to rural life after the Roman Empire all but fell and there was no real central control in Europe. The Church didn't help in some ways, but that is the fault of men and not of Catholicism the faith.

I tend to think of myself as a mix of Kantian and Aristotelian ethics. In that, there are some acts that are wrong simply because they contradict the nature of the human person (i.e.: killing). I also think of choosing in a way that will help me to develope my human capacities.

I am a Taoist. I base my philosophies on existing with nature, not against it. I am not in awe of anyone who created the world, I am in awe of the world. My moralistic philosophies come mainly from the TaoDeJing and my more weirder logic comes from the Chaung Tzu. No one can prove that we exist, and this life cause easily be as real as a dream. Wu-wei (meaning inaction) is very effective. Water is a perfect example of wu-wei in action. It's the softest thing in the world, you can put it into a cup and it becomes the cup. Yet it can penetrate the hardest rock and produce the most powerful force. I also take some of my philosophy from Jesus Christ, Buddha and Mohammed because, no matter what religion or philosophy, it usually has something right. Even if it tells you what not to follow.

Some beliefs I don't have names for, but here they are -

I don't believe people are born with a purpose. Our life's purpose is a determination we make by ourselves, not ascribed. I'm honestly not sure whether the institution of life has a purpose.

Politically, I'm FAR left. Marxist in my belief that all should contribute according to their ability and all should take what they need, but not communist as i'm libertarian when it comes to civil and political rights. I believe that a utopia can only be achieved in a free, self-governing society.

I'm a pacifist. I believe a tenant of humanity that keeps us above the animal is that we can choose to solve problems without force. (sure there are cooperative animals, but most work on a kill or be killed basis) As Confucsious said, "He who strikes the first blow admits he has run out of ideas."

On religion, I'm kinda Catholic, as I was born that way, but am exploring other religions, Buddhism primarly. My philosophy here is that I don't know what God really wants, or which god is right, and neither does anyone else, so no one should claim they do. I do believe in a God, as logic cannot solve the creation issue without one, but I'm not sure of it's nature, whether it truly is a "god" or just a being so high above what we are that it appears to be one (i.e. an ant looking at us). I also think most religious writings and descriptions of encounters are the ancients trying to explain extra-terrestrial encounters.

I believe that although man is essentialy self-determining, he is often doomed to repeat his history, usually out of a lack of historical knowledge or just blind stupidity on the part of our leaders. I study and enjoy history with a passion, partially to learn from the mistakes of those that came before me and avoid decisions that would mean a repeat of bad aspects of history.

Culturally, I practice cultural relativism, and don't believe any culture is inherently superior to any other.

And that's all i can think of. Thanks for the novel topic!

I think Oceana's government in Orson Wells 1984 had the right idea. Although I don't believe power would be a motivator for such a government, (if you want to hear how that works, start a new thread) if people do not remember what life used to be like, they will be happy and satisfied with such a simple non-thinking lifestyle. This would of course end human progress. Who would care though? Nobody would be able to care, that’s the beauty. Either that, or with everyone dead, the world would work well. No famines, no problems, no thinking about problems... Nice and simple.

and beleive that people are just animals with enough intelligence to raise them above nature.
I'm fine with the first part of your post, but humans cannot rise above nature. They are part of it and will always be.

Life is plenty fair, its the people who live it that aren't. My goal in life is to seek out those people then avoid them like the plague.

I'm a Lagoniaist, a set of ideals set forth by the brilliant writer Sal Lagonia.

Esentially, you are to strip your beliefs down entirely, throwing everything you've ever believed in away. You go so far as to even doubt your own exsistence, and then, starting from that exsistence, you re-build what you believe and you never fall into a set catagory, as your belief is subject to change.

I believe in one God, his son, my savior and I believe in many of the moral tenent set forth in the Bible, the Koran and the teachings of Buddah. I believe there is a balance that can be found between the major religions and science, and have proven to a mathmatical certainty the exsistence of a superior law, whether secular or religious.

I believe God does not interfear with free-will, and I believe that there is an after-life, though no matter how you have sinned in this life, the forgiveness of God will bring us all to the same place. There is no purgatory or Hell, no hades or elysian fields, no Valhalla, no hel, just one set place.

I believe that most creatures are lacking of any free-will, while free-will is reserved only for those more advanced creatures. However, I do belive in the sanctity of life. I eat meat, but will not actually kill anything of my own hand unless it is the humane thing to do, or is a matter of life or death.

I believe that most problems can be drowned away in a game of baseball, I tend to vote conservitive even though I'm quite moderate and I belong to the Right to Life party.

I'm pro-life, anti-death penalty, anti-gay marrage, anti-marrage amendment, anti-prohibition, pro-military, anti-stem cell reserch, anti-media and believe in small government. I voted for Bush, yet I voted mainly democrats into my local legislature.

I think that covers it. Anything I forget?

Esentially, you are to strip your beliefs down entirely, throwing everything you've ever believed in away. You go so far as to even doubt your own exsistence, and then, starting from that exsistence, you re-build what you believe and you never fall into a set catagory, as your belief is subject to change.
Very interesting theory, there. I think it's probably impossible for humans to accomplish, kind of like absolute zero is currently impossible for matter. Unfortunately, that leaves out experience. There are certain things learned through experience, and if you remove those and start from scratch, it's kind of like a child who hasn't learned much of the world. Background is incredibly important in belief-formation.

Anything I forget?
How it is that you can be against same-sex marriage, yet also against an amendment to the U.S. Constitution (I'm assuming you're American) to ban same-sex marriage.

Fourty-two.

Actually, I am a "contribute to your community"ist and intelligenceist.

I really don't know what one would call my belief system...

Government should have as little to do with the day to day affairs of citizens as possible

Government does not have the right to officiate in the matters of the people (gay marriage, abortion, religion)

The people of a country choose who makes up the government, but only those who pass certain general standards (ie you must pass an objective test before being allowed to vote)

Any size portion of the populace cannot change the views or the rulings of the government

anyone have the single big word that this all falls under

How it is that you can be against same-sex marriage, yet also against an amendment to the U.S. Constitution (I'm assuming you're American) to ban same-sex marriage.

Because I believe it should be left up to the states

Ayn Rand - yep, I'm a Randroid

im kind of both communitarian and liberal at the same time. plus a pacifist/hippie. I believe that people *should* work for the greater good of society and put their personal greed and desires aside for this common good. however i realise that that is practically impossible, and (instead) that people should be allowed to do practically whatever they want in their social lives, as long as it doesnt hurt anyone else; and that businesses, industries and the economy should be regulated to protect the consumer.
im also a pacifist; the world as a whole shoud disarm and maybe we can begin to live in peace. I believe that peace, feeedom and equality are the ultimate goals of society, and that discussion, peace & love, diplomacy, disarmament and a rejection of the ego and an adoption of a (somewhat) selfless, and above all a tolerant and accomodating attitude to life is the path towards this.

My philosophy is a combination of existentialism, surrealism, subjective idealism, pacifism, and anarcho-communism, with some strong anti-technology leanings. What that basically means is that I believe in free will, an absurd universe that exists only in our minds, complete opposition to violence, and to authority and markets, not to mention being critical of transhumanism and technocracy.

Because I believe it should be left up to the states
Ahh, ok.

I'm fine with the first part of your post, but humans cannot rise above nature. They are part of it and will always be.
I meant we can aspire to achieve more than feeding fucking and fighting. Through our intelligence we can set nobler goals for ourselves.

Giv'Er.

Blatant tomfoolery and shenanigans.

Jam yesterday, and jam tomorrow, but never jam today.

and

Every man his own football.

I am an Objectivist.

I realize that man is fundamentally a heroic being, and that it is only certain individuals who choose to be evil.

I realize that the meaning of life is to serve one's own self-interest, and that no individual has any obligation towards any other.

I realize that man is an end in himself, not a means to some other end.

I realize that morality and reality are objective entities, and that the proper means of apprehending them is not through arbitrary whim but through reason.

I realize that, given the above, the sole proper aim of government is to protect individual rights--that is, to punish violent aggressors against person or property, to enforce contracts, and to defend against outside aggression.

Apparently I'm somewhat Machiavellian, at least from what some people have observed..

1. Rabbits are the supreme life forms.

and the most important

2. Infinite circle is an infinite straight line.

Come and see my region when the factbook entry has been re-written. A bastard which I called my friend logged in as me, changed it, posted messages and sent telegrams.

He and my other friends.. They took this seriously from the beginning. I can only wonder their behaviour.

1. Rabbits are the supreme life forms.

and the most important

2. Infinite circle is an infinite straight line.

Come and see my region when the factbook entry has been re-written. A bastard which I called my friend logged in as me, changed it, posted messages and sent telegrams.

He and my other friends.. They took this seriously from the beginning. I can only wonder their behaviour.


*hug* yay for Rabbits!!!!!!!!!!!

UNNGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I meant we can aspire to achieve more than feeding fucking and fighting. Through our intelligence we can set nobler goals for ourselves.
I wish! Ants, relatively, do more scientific research than humans do in their daily lives.

I realize that man is fundamentally a heroic being, and that it is only certain individuals who choose to be evil.
Wouldn't it be so nice? But also, realise isn't the right word for any system of beliefs. That is extremely arrogant to think that what one believes is the absolute truth unsuspeptible to fault.

I realize that morality and reality are objective entities, and that the proper means of apprehending them is not through arbitrary whim but through reason.
Reality is certainly objective, but is morality? Does morality exist outside the human mind? I can think of no instance that nature or physics has ever demonstrated any sense of morality, and many in the humans have differing senses of it.

1. Rabbits are the supreme life forms.

and the most important

2. Infinite circle is an infinite straight line.
1. Correction: Ants are the supreme life forms.
2. All circles are composed of curved lines.

Aristotelian Libertinism with a smattering of Platonic governmental views.

I wish! Ants, relatively, do more scientific research than humans do in their daily lives.


Wouldn't it be so nice? But also, realise isn't the right word for any system of beliefs. That is extremely arrogant to think that what one believes is the absolute truth unsuspeptible to fault.


Reality is certainly objective, but is morality? Does morality exist outside the human mind? I can think of no instance that nature or physics has ever demonstrated any sense of morality, and many in the humans have differing senses of it.


1. Correction: Ants are the supreme life forms.
2. All circles are composed of curved lines.

Ants do scientific research? That's a new one on me. Do they publish their findings?

in Orson Wells 1984

Hehe.

I meant we can aspire to achieve more than feeding fucking and fighting. Through our intelligence we can set nobler goals for ourselves.

Thats what I like the most...feeding, fucking and fighting..thats what is call living, I don't have the room or the time for speculations or interpetations of life, I am living right now and thats all that matters to me, not some ideal about how noble we can be.

Existentialism

And to the one who said Satanists are just people performing magic rituals, this site may intrigue you: www.churchofsatan.com

E[dit: Well, actually they do believe in magic, but read the Nine Satanic Statements. They're true to you. Also, I'm an athiest who believes thoes are true, but I don't believe in any religion.]

Thats what I like the most...feeding, fucking and fighting..thats what is call living, I don't have the room or the time for speculations or interpetations of life, I am living right now and thats all that matters to me, not some ideal about how noble we can be.
So you don't share my philosophy. So what. You did say you were a nihlist. I never claimed to be one.

Existentialism

And to the one who said Satanists are just people performing magic rituals, this site may intrigue you: www.churchofsatan.com
Dude, I own a satanic bible and have read it from cover to cover. I don't agree with the idea that rituals can change things in the real world. It's a tenent of their religion. I also don't find their unforgiving nature appealing.

Ants do scientific research? That's a new one on me. Do they publish their findings?
No, they don't. But they apply them.

No, they don't. But they apply them.
I don't buy it. I don't beleive ants conduct experiments and learn from the results.

No sense in worreyng and beeing depressed all the time, get over it :)

I personally have nothing wrong with your personal views. Except this one, in which the point of life is to reproduce. Basic biology there.


You allmost got me there..almost...while I don't deny biological purpose I deny that iit has meaning except perhaps save the effort exerted in the here and now, like the song says "...in the end , it doesn't really matter". someday when this planet is obliterated all our history,stories,traditions and DNA will be destroyed with it, all the infromation that makes us will be gone forever. it will be like we where never really here, just a blip on a screen.

dogs

I don't beleive ants conduct experiments and learn from the results.
Then I think you could afford to do some research in myrmecology. 'Cause it's true.

Then I think you could afford to do some research in myrmecology. 'Cause it's true.
Really? I'd like to know more about this.

the rich get richer and the poor get poorer

The Church didn't help in some ways, but that is the fault of men and not of Catholicism the faith.

Technically there was no "Catholicism" before the Great Schism of c.1054, when the Western Roman church spilt from the Eastern Orthodox church.

I applied Ocham's razor to the thick volume of philosophies in my noggin a while ago and whittled it down to 4 words:
Live, and let live.

You allmost got me there..almost...while I don't deny biological purpose I deny that iit has meaning except perhaps save the effort exerted in the here and now, like the song says "...in the end , it doesn't really matter". someday when this planet is obliterated all our history,stories,traditions and DNA will be destroyed with it, all the infromation that makes us will be gone forever. it will be like we where never really here, just a blip on a screen.
Yes, that is true. But life does having meaning while it exists. And when the Earth is destroyed, then it will still have meaning if it exists somewhere else. Life has meaning, it is just that life itself is fleeting.

Really? I'd like to know more about this.
You should read Empire of the Ants by Bernard Werber. There is some anthropomorphism, but only some. After all, it was written by a 15-year entomologist. The main problem with it is that there is parts of it that deal with a human plotline thing, and is novelised in some places. Do not underestimate ants. Ants at Work: How an Insect Society is Organized by Deborah M. Gordon isn't a bad choice either, which is written by someone who's studied the desert harvester ant for 17 years, and is more scientific than Empire of the Ants.

I believe that I am right and everyone else is wrong. Simple as that.

At least I'm honest about it.

You should read Empire of the Ants by Bernard Werber. There is some anthropomorphisation, but only some. After all, it was written by a 15-year entomologist. The main problem with it is that there is parts of it that deal with a human plotline thing, and is novelised in some places. Do not underestimate ants. Ants at Work: How an Insect Society is Organized by Deborah M. Gordon isn't a bad choice either, which is written by someone who's studied the desert harvester ant for 17 years, and is more scientific than Empire of the Ants.

You can understand,for some acknowledging that insects experiment can be hard. But the truth is manyif not most animals experiment with their evironment and learn from the results, its a very natural process. I would have shown how higher mammals conduct experiments first.

I would have shown how higher mammals conduct experiments first.
Yes, but the thing is that certain social insects are better at experimentation than some higher mammals! It's really incredible.

Optimistic fatalist.

Besides my political beliefs (Laissez-faire capitalism), here are my philosophical ideas.

I reckon that the way evolution points, it is the inherent instinct of every living thing to stay alive as long as possible. Evidence points to this, since were this not the goal of any particular animal or person, that entity would die quickly.

Failing particularly prolonged life, we resort to the next best thing, creating new copies (or as close as possible) to ourselves by doing eachother and having kids.

This also ensures that the next generation will be even more dogmatic about surviving, and, most likely over time, will become better at it than we were.

So far this philosophy is pretty straight forward darwinism, but in my mind there are further implications of this trail of thought.

If evolution leans towards creating "better" (by better I imply "better at surviving for a long time") animals, surely the eventual outcome of evolution will be the production of an entity which is capable of indefinite survival, and any relevant feat or action. This might be described as "god", but the term often implies being "creator", whereas in this context, "god" would be instead "created".

In order for evolution to conclude, I propose that this entity will have to be omnipresent, thus occupying all available room in the universe, and presumably being composed of every item of matter and energy in the universe as well. With the universe pretty much filled up with this single super-being, not much would be able to happen, so I guess that would mark the end of the universe, since its "purpose" had been fulfilled in the generation of the perfect animal.

What would happen then, though, I'm still unsure. Just having a universe full of a perfect animal seems "pointless" from a philosophical stance, but evidence seems to point to it in the form of the evolutionary battle which is raging around us as it has done since the dawn of life and will probably continue to do so.

Maybe this process is cyclical, and once the super-animal has been achieved, the universe will occur again, producing what will have to be exactly the same super animal again. That seems even more pointless though.

One final thought to take into consideration is this. Since the universe is in some respect infinite as far as I can judge (if not in distance or in time of existance then on other plains like the transcendency of certain numbers (pi and phi for example)), surely one can argue that it is impossible to fill it with a super-animal, because there would always be more space, matter or energy which could be assimilated into it bringing it closer to "perfection", or at least omnipresence.

Perhaps therefore we strive to complete an impossible task. Paradoxically, this could be the reason for existance - simply to produce existance by not having fulfilled this ultimate task.

Beyond the point of about the sixth paragraph of this post lies simply my wild speculation, but my dogmatic beliefs I have determined beforehand, in the first six. I certainly however don't believe in the traditional "god" idea of some tyrannical magician, roaming the skies and smiting the sinners he created.

Yes, but the thing is that certain social insects are better at experimentation than some higher mammals! It's really incredible.

I know but people are conditioned to beleive that insects are a lower form of life, and its incredibly hard for people to change their viewpoint regarding this matter, to most people insect = unintelligent, its easier for most to believe that a chimpanzee would experiment than ants. The whole idea that insects experiment would seem bizarre to most, to some it would border on blasphemy.

"the rich get richer and the poor get poorer "

Statistically, over the span of human history, the rich have got richer, but so have the poor.

The poor of a few hundred years ago ate eachother to stay alive. Some of today's poor are morbidly obese.

If evolution leans towards creating "better" (by better I imply "better at surviving for a long time") animals, surely the eventual outcome of evolution will be the production of an entity which is capable of indefinite survival, and any relevant feat or action. This might be described as "god", but the term often implies being "creator", whereas in this context, "god" would be instead "created".

In order for evolution to conclude, I propose that this entity will have to be omnipresent, thus occupying all available room in the universe, and presumably being composed of every item of matter and energy in the universe as well. With the universe pretty much filled up with this single super-being, not much would be able to happen, so I guess that would mark the end of the universe, since its "purpose" had been fulfilled in the generation of the perfect animal.


Dogburg, your philosophy reminds me of Teihard de Chardin a Catholic philosopher, you should read the Phenomena of Man and the Divine Mileu, Teilhard beleived that everything evolves toward a greater complexity and that the eventual evolutionary goal (the Omega point) is the divinity of all, everything will evolve to become divine or God.

I don't know the name of my philosophy, but here's what I believe. There is a meaning in life, and that is to make life better for those living it. I believe that reason, supplemented by experience, is the only way to gain meaningful knowledge.
I believe that the human species is far superior to anything before us, and that we always were, and always will be triumphant when we work together to improve our surroundings. But by nature, we are competitive. The free market, with a watch-dog government, is the best way to erase this paradox, and ensure that every human reaches his/her potential. And I regard existentialism as pure evil, as it tells humans that it is okay to be a worthless nuissaince in society. If everyone followed it, our species would degenerate, and we'd become prisoners of nature yet again.
I guess you can call me an objectivist. But unlike Ayn Rand, I am not an athiest. As more of a personal belief, I believe that the above was hardwired into the human species by God.

I reckon that the way evolution points, it is the inherent instinct of every living thing to stay alive as long as possible. Evidence points to this, since were this not the goal of any particular animal or person, that entity would die quickly.

Failing particularly prolonged life, we resort to the next best thing, creating new copies (or as close as possible) to ourselves by doing eachother and having kids.
No. Evolution favours propagation of the species. Getting the next generation out is far, far more important than living longer. You haven't seen too many insects, I gather. Many males have artificially shortened lifespans after they copulate. Drone bees are simply killed when winter comes along. What evolution favours is not longer lifespans, but lifespans that reach the point of reproduction as optimally as possible. And there can never be any "perfect organism", because the environment is constantly changing.

I guess one could consider me a Deist primarily, but quite frankly I don't like the idea of organising people into groups or classes.

So that's where you get the beginning of my thoughts, no organisation. No reason for organisation, as people can fare perfectly well on their own will. Whatever a human being chooses to do is Right within their own consideration, the only thing that sets different views of morality apart is that there are seperate consequences as to what we think, or "believe" in.

Quite frankly I think it's a silly thing to "believe" in any one thing. Mainly because one does not truly know anything. Think about it for a sec, what do you "know"? t=The overwhelming majority of what you "know" is what you have been told. So what are you truly learning then? To truly know, you must have truly seen. One must have experienced the situation. Until that time you are an ignorant hulk of flesh.

Free Will, of course, is one of the main topics in question. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter. What ever happens, happens. There is nothing more to it, as far as we "know". Humanity can only make decisions based on their current situation and wisdom, what they do is entirely up to them. It can't be considered free, as it is dominated by inhuman entities, and it cannot be considered preordained, because what could preordain time?

Again I transition into the God charachter. I do believe in a God-BUT WAIT-I do not believe, however, in you conventional deity. God is the clockmaker. The entity of God has no physical existence, it is entirely creational. The entity constructed the systems, the laws, and the theorems of our being. He/She/It is not form with a "will" of any sort. God has no effect on humanity beyond the natural laws created.

Where do we go when we die? Back here is my guess, but I'm not the one with the map now am I?

A brief Run-down. I'm pro-abortion, pro-gay rights, All the way Left Wing, and totally objectivist. That doesn't mean I don't argue, however.

The culling of drone bees is a survival tactic, not individual but collective. The aim of bees is to prolong the existance of bees yes, not individual bees, bees in general. They're still trying to stay alive, this is evident if you take a bee and poke it with a needle or something. It will probably run away (to escape further mutilation) or sting you to protect its fellows, who have very similar genetic makeup to it.

The way I see it, they're still trying to stay alive for as long as possible, although you're right this is an interesting case, since they're not prolonging the lives of individuals.

Motiviation aside, if their collectivist tendancies are successful as a surival technique, they will continue to reproduce, compete with other species, improve. That way they will still be "playing along", because if this is such a perfect way to survive, the universe will fill up with bees pretty quickly. (or a giant super-bee? I dunno)

Again I transition into the God charachter. I do believe in a God-BUT WAIT-I do not believe, however, in you conventional deity. God is the clockmaker. The entity of God has no physical existence, it is entirely creational. The entity constructed the systems, the laws, and the theorems of our being. He/She/It is not form with a "will" of any sort. God has no effect on humanity beyond the natural laws created.
Yes, that is pretty much word-for-word deism.

I suppose you could say that I'm Agnostic, to a point. My views are best allusioned by the theory set forth in Angels & Demons and Deism, that a god-like entity existed, and set forth everthing with the Big Bang, and then disappeared, or left. I view the holy texts not as historical records, but as analogies for living life. To that extent, I enjoy reading both Christian biblical books and psalms, and also in the Sutras of the east. I have other, odder alternative views that allow for religion and science, such as an off-the-wall interpretation of 'God created man in his own image'. What if our God is some cosmic amoebic creature, and we are the result of diffusion? Anyways, I always take science over religion when there is simply no agreement, but I have yet to be not able to interpret such a bridge.

Also, if an animal was approaching omnipresence, the environment would no longer be changing, since the environment would become part of the being. That would be the ultimate way to survive, nothing around you would be trying to eat you, because everything around you would BE you.

The culling of drone bees is a survival tactic, not individual but collective. The aim of bees is to prolong the existance of bees yes, not individual bees, bees in general.
And right there is the need to reproduce, not live longer overall. The advantage to living longer is that an individual can reproduce more.

Also, if an animal was approaching omnipresence, the environment would no longer be changing, since the environment would become part of the being. That would be the ultimate way to survive, nothing around you would be trying to eat you, because everything around you would BE you.

It is a matter of perspective, if you are a monist, you already beleive this is so because "There is no true distinction between the observer and observed", all things are ultimately one. Much of the Buddhist literature that I have read gets into this, that you are everything around you (you are the the universe)and any distinctions you make is purely an illusion. So what would it matter if the you that is the eagle eats the you that is the rabbit? You would just be sustaining your self.

"And right there is the need to reproduce, not live longer overall. The advantage to living longer is that an individual can reproduce more."

I'll conceed that. Still, though, that need points to the desire to add to the evolutionary process, securing your genes a place in the "omega point" as Nihilistic Beginners put it.

being a catholic, i believe that God created the universe

my question is to athiests and such: how was the universe created? and those who giv the answer "big bang", where did the matter that represented the big bang come from? and as for those who say "it was just there", i wont even dignify them with a response

for darwinists: how did life evolve from matter that is not technically alive? (matter meaning hydrogen, oxygen, etc.), and we just somehow evolved from this?


p.s.: my life is sumed up by this quote: "i love mankind, its people i cant stand"

anybody who knows who said that quote gets an imaginary prize

Nope, satanists beleive in magic rituals. To my mind that's pure bullshit.
... actually, what you just said is pure bullshit... hate to break it to you. Satanists worship the devil (aka Satan- hence the name) wiccans and pagans tend towards 'magic rituals' which, btw, arent that different than Catholic Mass...

... actually, what you just said is pure bullshit... hate to break it to you. Satanists worship the devil (aka Satan- hence the name)
Well, I personally don't know too much, but I'm pretty sure that Satanists worship Lucifer, the Light-Bringer, and basically live a very hedonistic way of life. It's not the same Satan the Christianity is familiar with.

"being a catholic, i believe that God created the universe

my question is to athiests and such: how was the universe created? and those who giv the answer "big bang", where did the matter that represented the big bang come from? and as for those who say "it was just there", i wont even dignify them with a response"

Giving the buzzword answer "Big bang" is no more ridiculous than saying "God". Sure, where did the big bang come from, but by your reasoning where did god come from?

"for darwinists: how did life evolve from matter that is not technically alive? (matter meaning hydrogen, oxygen, etc.), and we just somehow evolved from this?""

The scientific boundaries between "alive" and "not alive" are very fuzzy. Are viruses like flu and common cold alive? Their chemical makeups can be expressed on paper but they act like other organisms, reproducing new instances of themselves and the like.

Organisms with only a few cells have basic levels of awareness in the sense that they can react to different stimuli around them. And yet the structure of a cell is expressable as a list of chemicals (albeit a large list).

Well, I personally don't know too much, but I'm pretty sure that Satanists worship Lucifer, the Light-Bringer, and basically live a very hedonistic way of life. It's not the same Satan the Christianity is familiar with.

Actually, I'm not sure you're not right on that one.. it sounds plausable (Personally, I tend towards Paganism, but I have looked into the entire issue to see what all the hubub was about http://www.satanism101.com/ try that if you want to learn more about it.. I just went to google and there it was... )
p.s.
halfway down that page it mentions "Pssst… Here is the funny part… We don’t even believe in Satan!" ..lol..

"for darwinists: how did life evolve from matter that is not technically alive? (matter meaning hydrogen, oxygen, etc.), and we just somehow evolved from this?""
Actually, there's a more effective answer to this than viruses. Experiments have shown that with enough energy and raw materials lying around, life will emerge form that concoction. I am not nearly advanced enough to understand that yet, but life really did come from non-life.

I rest my case.

Water placed in a cup does not become the cup. It, like air, takes the shape of the interior. To imply that water has, can or does become a crystal goblet is simply not true.

To say no one can prove you exist is equally insane. Look at your driver license (if you have one), or your birth certificate, or speak to your parents, siblings, co-workers, neighbors, friends and others! Further, if you are murdered, the law will say you existed.

If this life is a dream, go stick your hand on a hot stove top, or run onto the highway into the path of an oncoming and speeding vehicle.... you'll stop dreaming in record time.

If philosophy doesn't matter, i.e. "no matter what religion or philosophy, it usually has something right" then take philosophy from Charles Manson, or Adolph Hitler! Philosophy DOES matter.

"Cultural relativism" is neither good, and to say no "culture is inherently superior to any other" is equally ludicrous. Consider the Nazi culture.

And, if "people are just animals with enough intelligence to raise them above nature," then we have a responsibility because of our superior intelligence to behave in a fashion that is in accordance with the level of raise.

If, some claim, life has no meaning, they speak for themselves only. And if they believe life has no meaning, they are probably depressed and entertain suicidal ideations. For if life has no meaning, it is not worth living. Go ahead and give up your space to someone else who wants it.

With respect for this one, "goal in life is to seek out those people then avoid them" how can one avoid the thing they seek? That statement contradicts itself.

To say laws are simply created to "keep the individual within certain boundaries" reflects that a person is a whin-o, cry-baby loser. They've clearly never won or achieved anything in their life, so they complain that it's 'not their fault' and that others are "unable to think for themselves." If that is the case, they and others like them are the only people able to "think for themselves" which automatically means that they're right and everyone else is wrong, which in turn means that they are superior to all. Surely that's not true!

There is a law of absolutes. The light is either on, or it is off. You are either alive or dead. Two things cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Therefore, if there is a God whom is loving and kind, there is a Devil that is hateful and evil. If there is a Heaven, there must be a Hell.

If animals don't have free will, why don't the birds land on your shoulder, and deer voluntarily surrender to your butcher and freezer without a hunt?

If disarmament brings peace, we'll kill each other with our fists and stones. Remember... Cain killed Abel. If "rejection of the ego and adoption of a (somewhat) selfless, and above all a tolerant and accomodating {sic} attitude to life" brings peace, then rape is not a crime, and neither you, your wife, girlfriend, sister or mother should complain.

And, if "no individual has any obligation towards any other" apologize now to the women in your life because you'll stand by and do nothing when they are raped, beaten and abused.

If "the proper means of apprehending them [morality and reason] is not through arbitrary whim but through reason," then there is truth, and if there is truth, there is absolute truth; and if there is truth, there are lies and falsehood, and if we have the ability to reason and to think, then we can know the difference between right and wrong; and if we can recognize the difference between who we are, what we're capable of - the good and the evil - then we can acknowledge we have responsibility to ourselves and to others, to do good, to maintain self control, and to revere the thing that is higher and better than us.

And, if the confession that one does not find Satanism's "unforgiving nature appealing," then there must be appeal in the forgiving nature of the Almighty, who sacrificed His only begotten son, who was raised from death by the power of his perfection and sinlessness, and who reigns supreme forever and ever, amen.

If also, one does not "agree with the idea that rituals can change things in the real world," then they must believe that rituals do not change the world, but that one's rituals or beliefs change them. Which is exactly the purpose of submission to and worship of the tender mercies of Most High.

Jesus loves me, this I know. for the Bible tells me so. Little ones to Him belong, we are weak, but He is strong. Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me, for the Bible tells me so.

"Verily I say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." - Jesus, ref: Matthew 18:3 KJV

Actually, there's a more effective answer to this than viruses. Experiments have shown that with enough energy and raw materials lying around, life will emerge form that concoction. I am not nearly advanced enough to understand that yet, but life really did come from non-life.

Uh, what? There have been experiments showing that chemicals necessary for life will form with the right combination of precursor chemicals and energy, but no experiment yet has shown that actual life will emerge.

Humanism.

Humanism.
IMO, humanism is just as bad as existentialism. It rewards everyone in society from the lazy to the counterproductive.

Existentialism is not lazy! It may be argued that it is one of the only philosophies that can actually be used!

Existentialism is not lazy! It may be argued that it is one of the only philosophies that can actually be used!
Existentialism can be used as it is basically no philosophy at all. It is really something that makes people believe that it is okay to have a primative mind, or to not advance. Why? Because you have no moral obligation to anyone. It is every man to himself, and damn the side effects.

My philosopy doesn't really have a name, but I can describe it.

Shit happens, so let's all get hopped up on sugar and play video games for hours on end.

Wouldn't it be so nice? But also, realise isn't the right word for any system of beliefs.
There's a reason I used "realize"--because they're not simply "beliefs" but rather objective facts that I realize are true and thus accept.
That is extremely arrogant to think that what one believes is the absolute truth unsuspeptible to fault.
Perhaps--but it's also justified, since it IS indeed true.


Reality is certainly objective, but is morality? Does morality exist outside the human mind? I can think of no instance that nature or physics has ever demonstrated any sense of morality,
Man has a certain nature--morality stems from that.
and many in the humans have differing senses of it.
If two or more people disagree on what is and is not moral, then:
at least one of them is wrong; and
at most one of them is correct
It does NOT mean that morality is subjective.

"being a catholic, i believe that God created the universe

my question is to athiests and such: how was the universe created? and those who giv the answer "big bang", where did the matter that represented the big bang come from? and as for those who say "it was just there", i wont even dignify them with a response"
The answer to "What is the first cause of the big bang?" is: No one knows. But having no answer is vastly preferable to having an answer based solely on blind faith and divine revelation. At least if you have no answer you know what to look for.

"for darwinists: how did life evolve from matter that is not technically alive? (matter meaning hydrogen, oxygen, etc.), and we just somehow evolved from this?""
Read up on the Miller-Urey experiments. Right now, what's believed to have happened is that a bunch of primordial chemicals were near each other and, with electricity from a lightning bolt as a catalyst, reacted to form early amino acids, which reacted to form more complex molecules, and so on and so on until self-replicating molecules were finally formed.

And, if "no individual has any obligation towards any other" apologize now to the women in your life because you'll stand by and do nothing when they are raped, beaten and abused.

Your amoral shallowness is revolting. Assuming I value the company and friendship of another individual, see if you can guess what the selfish thing to do would be in the situation you described.

And in truth, that (non-)"point" didn't even need to be addressed. Why? It's an argumentum ad consequentiam (argument to the consequences) fallacy--which means that just because you find the consequences of a proposition undesirable does not mean that that proposition is not true.

If "the proper means of apprehending them [morality and reason] is not through arbitrary whim but through reason," then there is truth, and if there is truth, there is absolute truth; and if there is truth, there are lies and falsehood, and if we have the ability to reason and to think, then we can know the difference between right and wrong; and if we can recognize the difference between who we are, what we're capable of - the good and the evil
Correct so far, but here's where you go wrong:
then we can acknowledge we have responsibility...to others,
That is not a rational conclusion.
revere the thing that is higher and better than us.
Not only an irrational conclusion, but also an anti-reason conclusion, for if there is such a supreme being, then one should place faith in its dictates rather than use reason to apprehend the Universe.

I am a libertine, since i beleive that life is basically meaningless, that the only thing you can know is the here and now, and basically if you know what you are doing , you can do anything you want. Then this is the only life (or moment) you have and there is nothing more to expect, you might as well as enjoy for all that it is worth. Hell, if this is it, enjoy it, why bother with all the BS that keeps you from enjoying your life more fully?

Think about this for a moment: Before you existed here, you dont remember anything else. Just black nothingness. According to your beliefs, once you die, it is the same way. Since your death is later in the future than your life now, there is no way for you to remember living right here, right now, since there would just be blackness and no thing to remember this life so you would never even know you existed.

Therefore, there must be a life after this one, which means that there must be purpose and meaning in this life. The truth is, right now, what you do for a living or whatever, THAT, is your purpose, your meaning. At least for now...

I am an Objectivist. The philosophies and ideas many of you seem to follow (save the few here who know the intelligence and morality of subscribing to reason), are simply disgusting.

First, religion is bullshit, until I see anything supernatural I'm not believing anything. For politics, whatever is right, regardless of whether it sides with the Right or Left or wherever in between.

First, religion is bullshit, until I see anything supernatural I'm not believing anything. For politics, whatever is right, regardless of whether it sides with the Right or Left or wherever in between.

Why would you be looking for the supernatural when you yourself are the supernatural?

If your hitting on me, well, we'd have to meet first. But if your a dude, it's not gonna happen. Humans are no smarter than any other animal, we just are more adaptive and destructive

First, religion is bullshit, until I see anything supernatural I'm not believing anything. For politics, whatever is right, regardless of whether it sides with the Right or Left or wherever in between.

How about the fact that the sun rises in the morning; what about crop circles; the existance of the term "deja vu" (which I have expierienced, by the way); how about the various properties of different musical notes; reportings of ghosts; what about the woman who was blind in hospital, died (medically), was revived, then explained in detail the room around her and the roof of the hospital including a man standing on it.
Seek, and thee shall find.

What goes around comes around...or a bit more formally "What you do comes back to you seven times over"

There is also ""Do what thou wilt an' it harm none"

I believe that I am right and everyone else is wrong. Simple as that.

At least I'm honest about it.


I believe that philosophy is called Feminism, or is it just called "Being A Woman"

Maybe their right.
Maybe the purpose of life for men is to serve women and make your woman as happy as possible, or die trying.

By the way, I'm a platonist in many ways. I'm also a mystic of all three lines of thinking. In some ways, I'm even an anamist.

I believe that philosophy is called Feminism, or is it just called "Being A Woman"

Actually, I believe that's hedonism ;)

"the rich get richer and the poor get poorer "

Statistically, over the span of human history, the rich have got richer, but so have the poor.

The poor of a few hundred years ago ate eachother to stay alive. Some of today's poor are morbidly obese.

Sounds liek something Marx said, to me. Rich get richer and poor get poorer until the poor revolt, like shaking the snowglobe, then society stratifies again and the rich get richer, poor get poorer, and the illusive middle class shrinks, joining one side or the other sooner or later

Sounds liek something Marx said, to me. Rich get richer and poor get poorer until the poor revolt, like shaking the snowglobe, then society stratifies again and the rich get richer, poor get poorer, and the illusive middle class shrinks, joining one side or the other sooner or later

I thought it was simply the replacement of the aristocracy with the middle class and vice versa.

Humanity is an alien parasite sucking the life out of this planet. Humans never evolved here. We are genetically engineered descendants of people from a planet called "Nibiru," who came and ruthlessly murdered the original natives of this planet after using them for genetic engineering.

This planet should be named "Tiamat," as it once was before the nibiruans came.

Large scale capitalism is evil--it leads to corrupt corporations who believe they're above the law.

Go nukes! Use nuke bombs without bothering to clean up the radioactivity? Shame on you!

People of all ages, ethnicities, and species have every right to walk around nude.

"God" is really just a bunch of baloney. Mother Nature rules!

--------------------------

Any opinions?

Humanity is an alien parasite sucking the life out of this planet. Humans never evolved here. We are genetically engineered descendants of people from a planet called "Nibiru," who came and ruthlessly murdered the original natives of this planet after using them for genetic engineering.

This planet should be named "Tiamat," as it once was before the nibiruans came.

Large scale capitalism is evil--it leads to corrupt corporations who believe they're above the law.

Go nukes! Use nuke bombs without bothering to clean up the radioactivity? Shame on you!

People of all ages, ethnicities, and species have every right to walk around nude.

"God" is really just a bunch of baloney. Mother Nature rules!

--------------------------

Any opinions?

Ahh, Nibiru...has anyone heard of Maldek? its where the asteroid belt is right now - yep, thats the remnants of it. They destroyed themselves and reincarnated here, along with many other species. I'm not lying. How do you think all the magnificint ancient structures everywhere on this planet where built so perfectly to balance the planets energies without extraterrestrial influence?

As for "God", Mother Nature and "God" are the same thing, just as everyone is One. There is no separation between any of Creation. So when you say "God" is a bunch of baloney, Mother Nature rules, its kinda contradicting itself. But hey, its all the same. ;)

By "mother nature," I was referring to the this planet, Earth (I call it Tiamat). Ever heard about the "living planet" theory? That's what Tiamat is--a living planet. And that is what I meant when I said "mother nature." Sorry for the confusion. ;)

Humanity is an alien parasite sucking the life out of this planet. Humans never evolved here. We are genetically engineered descendants of people from a planet called "Nibiru," who came and ruthlessly murdered the original natives of this planet after using them for genetic engineering.

This planet should be named "Tiamat," as it once was before the nibiruans came.

Large scale capitalism is evil--it leads to corrupt corporations who believe they're above the law.

Go nukes! Use nuke bombs without bothering to clean up the radioactivity? Shame on you!

People of all ages, ethnicities, and species have every right to walk around nude.

"God" is really just a bunch of baloney. Mother Nature rules!

--------------------------

Any opinions?

That's actually not as stupid as it seems, its very plausable. By the way, ever read Chariots of the Gods by Erich von Daniken? It looks at this possiblility.
Large scale capitalism IS evil for exactly that reason. Large corperations are the scourge of the earth. Totally mindless entities. For example: Global warming threatens to destroy the planet, but unfortunately companies are making too much money from the use of fossil fuels and the government (which I place in the same boat) doesn't want to pay for alternative energy sources. Secondly, crude oil reserves are fast dissapearing, yet, due to large companies making too much money from the situation, cars still run on petrol. WTF! Hows about hydrogen or ethonol guys? we already have the tech. But no, instead, we keep devouring crude oil, totally wasting it on fuel when we should be reserving it for hydrocarbon. Without hydrocarbons, plastic is impossable to preduce. Thanks to large companies, the entire world will go into an unheard of recession, no one will be able to afford anything.

I disagree with the nuke part.

I agree, the nudity taboo is silly.

Finally, why not combine God and Gaia? Essentially they are one and the same.

By "mother nature," I was referring to the this planet, Earth (I call it Tiamat). Ever heard about the "living planet" theory? That's what Tiamat is--a living planet. And that is what I meant when I said "mother nature." Sorry for the confusion. ;)

I dont think there was any confusion. The planet is an entity in and of itself and can easily be considered "God".

Read my second post above about the mother nature thing.

As for "God", Mother Nature and "God" are the same thing, just as everyone is One. There is no separation between any of Creation. So when you say "God" is a bunch of baloney, Mother Nature rules, its kinda contradicting itself. But hey, its all the same. ;)

Somebody get this man a beer! (or woman) :)

Read my second post above about the mother nature thing.
Fair enough, but I think one could expand and say that Gaia, the name given to the earth as a single entity and God, being all things (or the creator of all things) are at least related.

at the moment im leaning toward french existentialism.

Fair enough, but I think one could expand and say that Gaia, the name given to the earth as a single entity and God, being all things (or the creator of all things) are at least related.
Maybe, but one thing is for sure: NO SINGLE ENTITY can be "ruler of all things," cause, there's more to this universe than a sphere 30 billion lightyears wide that contains COUNTLESS aliens and stars and planets and galaxies. It's impossible for even a single planet to rule all this.

(And this from a man who plans to take over the universe ;) )

at the moment im leaning toward french existentialism.

Could you elaborate on that?

Maybe, but one thing is for sure: NO SINGLE ENTITY can be "ruler of all things," cause, there's more to this universe than a sphere 30 billion lightyears wide that contains COUNTLESS aliens and stars and planets and galaxies. It's impossible for even a single planet to rule all this.

(And this from a man who plans to take over the universe ;) )

I agree, no one entity can, but some kind of force might be able to (George Lucas obviously thought along the same lines). Something may have created it though.

Could you elaborate on that?
i dunno, i dont know much about it- but Jean Paul Sartre and Albert Camus are both really interesting to me right now. Hard reading, but its satisfying.

Another thing I believe, was that also, "god" was a fake entity designed by those who crave power, those who like to be worshiped or something, which is what I think that the Nibiruans did, in order to control us, use us as their personal "whipping boys." :D

More about my opinion on Nibiru here:
http://www.immortal.com/bbs/YaBB.cgi?board=ScienceandTechnology;action=display;num=1050543270;start=45#45 (there's some language there, may have to scroll down a bit to find my opinion.)

Probably, the best way to decribe my philosophy would be "nothing and everything" in the sense that I adhere to not specific religious or philosophical doctrine, yet incorperate all of them to some degree.

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide.
Albert Camus

Existentialism can be used as it is basically no philosophy at all. It is really something that makes people believe that it is okay to have a primative mind, or to not advance. Why? Because you have no moral obligation to anyone. It is every man to himself, and damn the side effects.
I don't think that's existentialism...at least not my type.

There's a reason I used "realize"--because they're not simply "beliefs" but rather objective facts that I realize are true and thus accept.

Perhaps--but it's also justified, since it IS indeed true.
Which is arrogance again, saying that because you believe it to be true, it is infallible.

Man has a certain nature--morality stems from that.

If two or more people disagree on what is and is not moral, then:
at least one of them is wrong; and
at most one of them is correct
It does NOT mean that morality is subjective.
But who decides what is correct and what is wrong? It is subjective no matter how you spin it.

How about the fact that the sun rises in the morning; what about crop circles; the existance of the term "deja vu" (which I have expierienced, by the way); how about the various properties of different musical notes; reportings of ghosts
The sun never rises. The Earth merely spins giving it the appearance of "rising" in the sky. Physics and astronomy explain it perfectly. I'm not quite sure about crop circles, but I doubt they're supernatural in their nature. There's probably something we're missing, but I don't much care. And I have experienced déjà vu many times. I do believe that there are certain perceptions that organisms, or at least humans have that we have not yet figured out how they work. Musical notes are vibrations in the air, I don't know what "properties" you're referring to. And there have been reportings of many things that do not exist. There are also plenty of hallucinogens and people who are looking for attention, as well as people who have low blood sugar or though they saw or heard something but just imagined it.

In some ways, I'm even an anamist.
I personally have no problems with animism, just know how to spell it if you are one yourself.

Fair enough, but I think one could expand and say that Gaia, the name given to the earth as a single entity and God, being all things (or the creator of all things) are at least related.
What about Kronos? Don't leave him out.

Another thing I believe, was that also, "god" was a fake entity designed by those who crave power, those who like to be worshiped or something, which is what I think that the Nibiruans did, in order to control us, use us as their personal "whipping boys." :D

That's a plausable position to take, you're not alone there. The main purpose of any religious establishment is to control the minds of the population. Thankfully, few relgious sects could consider themselves 'establised' in the modern world. The Roman Catholic Church is probably the longest standing, but loosing power. The orthodox churches in their countries of establishment could be also. I fear Islam is being used to a similar effect of late.

Who's Kronos?

i dunno, i dont know much about it- but Jean Paul Sartre and Albert Camus are both really interesting to me right now. Hard reading, but its satisfying.
Holy crap, Jean-Paul Sartre is incredible! (How do you pronounce his name? I've heard it occasionally, but have never quite caught it...) And how can you say that it's hard reading, unless there's works I haven't read yet that are harder. I hadn't heard of Albert Camus, but I will if you mention both Sartre and him in the same sentence.

"All is chosen". Life is about choice and the ramifications of choice. Good, evil, morality - all are just facades.

Reincarnation? Sure.

Religion? The opiate of the people.

Here is the world. Do with it as you will - and take the consequences of those actions.

Who's Kronos?
Kronos, or Cronus in the more Romanised spelling, is basically the sky in Greek mythos. He was the sky and Gaia the Earth. He was the titan father of Zeus, from whom he was dethroned.

Holy crap, Jean-Paul Sartre is incredible! (How do you pronounce his name? I've heard it occasionally, but have never quite caught it...) And how can you say that it's hard reading, unless there's works I haven't read yet that are harder. I hadn't heard of Albert Camus, but I will if you mention both Sartre and him in the same sentence.
well, im not a very smart person so such reading is pretty difficult for me but yeah Sartre and Camus were friends and fellow free french fighters during WWII; but i believe they got into a fight and parted ways. (mighta been because of a girl).

but yeah, Camus is another big french existentialist writer.

Well, sometimes, I think that all the stuff in mythology, probably actually did happen in RL in a way, somehow. Perhaps, it was some stuff that happened on Nibiru, and someone twisted the facts to make us think that they were really gods who could destroy the planet at a whim. In a sense, they kinda are: they DO have a lot of technology. They probably found a way to control the weather, type a few commands on a keyboard, and you've got hurricanes in Israel and such, therfore, making them LOOK like they're almighty gods.

The sun never rises. The Earth merely spins giving it the appearance of "rising" in the sky. Physics and astronomy explain it perfectly. I'm not quite sure about crop circles, but I doubt they're supernatural in their nature. There's probably something we're missing, but I don't much care. And I have experienced déjà vu many times. I do believe that there are certain perceptions that organisms, or at least humans have that we have not yet figured out how they work. Musical notes are vibrations in the air, I don't know what "properties" you're referring to. And there have been reportings of many things that do not exist. There are also plenty of hallucinogens and people who are looking for attention, as well as people who have low blood sugar or though they saw or heard something but just imagined it.


I personally have no problems with animism, just know how to spell it if you are one yourself.


What about Kronos? Don't leave him out.

Well, you sure cut me down. Sorry, you're right, it is animism. Who is Kronos?

Well, you sure cut me down. Sorry, you're right, it is animism. Who is Kronos?
Why is everyone acting so non-inflammatory? The forum seems so...civil right now... And I briefly explained who Kronos was, a Titan in Greek mythology, in an earlier post.

Kronos, or Cronus in the more Romanised spelling, is basically the sky in Greek mythos. He was the sky and Gaia the Earth. He was the titan father of Zeus, from whom he was dethroned.

Which is arrogance again, saying that because you believe it to be true, it is infallible.
No. It's not "I say it's true; therefore, it is true" but rather "It is true; therefore, I say it is true". You're transposing the consequent and the antecedent.

But who decides what is correct and what is wrong?
NO ONE decides. It is a fact of nature, to be DISCOVERED, not DICTATED.

The Dark Ages were caused by a revertion back to rural life after the Roman Empire all but fell and there was no real central control in Europe. The Church didn't help in some ways, but that is the fault of men and not of Catholicism the faith.

The central control of Europe was the catholic church, after the fall of the Roman empire we saw the rise of the Byzantine Empire; what was left of the eastern Roman Empire, then later the rise of the Holy Roman Empire under Charlemegne. Both of those were catholic endeavours. The dark ages lasted as long as they did thanks to the catholics church banning of rational and empirical inquiry. Science was outlawed because it called into question the absolutism of the Catholic God, and entire libraries were burnt to the ground. The people of Europe lost their cultural history, and were mass brainwashed, terrified and disorganized. These conditions allowed the Catholic church to rise to control every government in western europe; to be the only allowed faith, people attempting to practice anything else were summarily tortured of killed; the Catholic church was the largest landholder and banned the loaning of money, thus economic expansion was all but impossible.

The dark ages only ended because of the renaisance which was spurred by an exchange of culture and ideas between Italy and the Middle East. New ideas led to a questioning of the absolutism of catholicism, these questionings allowed for the Reformation to take place. This combined with the abandonment of the Catholic faith by England, which would rise to dominate the world, allowed for the end of the dark ages.

The catholic faith's hegemony status in the pan-european world was shatterred, and the church's ability to repress irreffutable scientific proof was stripped away by the push for colonialism and the rise of nationalism. No longer were decisions made by catholic rulers aimed towards enriching the Catholic church, but, they were aimed at increasing the nations coffers, and thus the rulers own fortunes.

The dark ages were caused principaly, though not exclusively by, the rise of Christianity and Catholicism. They were sustained by the church's ultra-conservative stance on progress, the less the better and none at all idealy. And, they only ended because of increased cultural exchange outside of the church dominated European continent and because of the fact that human greed is almost always stronger than human faith.

And I have experienced déjà vu many times. I do believe that there are certain perceptions that organisms, or at least humans have that we have not yet figured out how they work. Musical notes are vibrations in the air, I don't know what "properties" you're referring to.

OK, what about ESP. For example, for some unknown reason, you slow down nearing the entrance of a side road (you're on the main one) and a car sceames around the corner without taking one look. Had you not slowed down, the car would have been straight through your side.
As for the music, I'm mainly referring to Hinduism (7 chacras, yes?). Also, the mathematical beuty of the way sound can resonate, construction of various modes and scales, the ability of music to affect human emotion etc.

The central control of Europe was the catholic church, after the fall of the Roman empire we saw the rise of the Byzantine Empire; what was left of the eastern Roman Empire, then later the rise of the Holy Roman Empire under Charlemegne. Both of those were catholic endeavours. The dark ages lasted as long as they did thanks to the catholics church banning of rational and empirical inquiry. Science was outlawed because it called into question the absolutism of the Catholic God, and entire libraries were burnt to the ground. The people of Europe lost their cultural history, and were mass brainwashed, terrified and disorganized. These conditions allowed the Catholic church to rise to control every government in western europe; to be the only allowed faith, people attempting to practice anything else were summarily tortured of killed; the Catholic church was the largest landholder and banned the loaning of money, thus economic expansion was all but impossible.

The dark ages only ended because of the renaisance which was spurred by an exchange of culture and ideas between Italy and the Middle East. New ideas led to a questioning of the absolutism of catholicism, these questionings allowed for the Reformation to take place. This combined with the abandonment of the Catholic faith by England, which would rise to dominate the world, allowed for the end of the dark ages.

The catholic faith's hegemony status in the pan-european world was shatterred, and the church's ability to repress irreffutable scientific proof was stripped away by the push for colonialism and the rise of nationalism. No longer were decisions made by catholic rulers aimed towards enriching the Catholic church, but, they were aimed at increasing the nations coffers, and thus the rulers own fortunes.

The dark ages were caused principaly, though not exclusively by, the rise of Christianity and Catholicism. They were sustained by the church's ultra-conservative stance on progress, the less the better and none at all idealy. And, they only ended because of increased cultural exchange outside of the church dominated European continent and because of the fact that human greed is almost always stronger than human faith.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Constantinople was the seat of the Orthodox Church. Also, the cultural history of Europe was, in large part, preserved by the Muslims in the middle east. Other than that, I agree.

Why is everyone acting so non-inflammatory? The forum seems so...civil right now...
I've noticed that too: I'm not screaming my usual anti-religion BS. :D

Why is everyone acting so non-inflammatory? The forum seems so...civil right now... And I briefly explained who Kronos was, a Titan in Greek mythology, in an earlier post.

Well, why get flamed about something, especially religion which utimately can't be successfully argued for or against.

Christian Socialist Constitutionalism.

I believe in:
Inalianable right to life.
God given nonalienable right to self defense.
Inalienable right to reproductive freedom.
Inalienable right to freedom of religion. This includes the right to practice your religion in public places just as much as it includes a ban on government endorsement of religion.
The right of all people to equal treatment under the law. Brown Versus Board Education, rather than promoting this right, actually did a lot to undermine it.
The right to equal opportunity to succeed or fail on your own merits. Otherwise known in the Declaration of Independence as the right to pursue happiness.
The right to own private property and acquire wealth through legal means that do not violate other people's rights.
Those who violate other people's right to life (through murder or rape and the like) forfeit their own right to life.
Anyone who violates the rights of others, forfeits his own rights.
That once a person has paid for his crimes, ie. served his time, it is a violation of his rights to continue punishing him it.
A right of all people to basic healthcare.
I beleive that, in accordance with the doctrine in the gospels and Revelation, that the world is attempting to establish a one world government but that their efforts will fail.
I beleive that science and religion are not mutually exclusive. IE: Psalms states that the earth revolves around the sun. Nowhere does the bible state that the sun goes around the earth.
I believe there is only one true God and Jesus is his son.
I believe that you are not saved just merely by believing but that faith withou works is dead and will not get you into heaven.
I beleive the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are necessary otherwise we would be facing more serious problems in the future.
I believe men and women are equal because woman was made from man's side, to be his equal and his friend.
I believe in slavery as a legitimate form of punishment for breaking the law.
I believe volunteer armies are superior to drafted armies.
I believe the survival of the human race henges on its willingness to colonize the solar system and beyond.
I believe those who refuse to study history are doomed to repeat history.
I believe that love is something that should be given away as a free gift without any expectation of something in return.
I believe you should turn the other cheek, but remember to keep the big stick handy. Whatever you do, never walk away.
I believe that the age of consent should be 30.
I believe that the best way to find employment is to be multitasked and be able to do at least 3 different types of jobs. You'll be more likely to find jobs in shorter time period than if you only had one skill.
That music is more important than athletics but that both are necessary for learning new stuff.
I believe you should remember where you've been and watch where you going.
I believe people who stand by while a person is being assualted (robbed, mugged, raped, etc.) are as guilty of the crime as the actual perpetrator and should be punished accordingly. Same applies to those who know the crime is being committed but just continue to walk by, ignoring it, as if it wasn't happening, under the guise that its "none of their business".
Just a sample of my beliefs.

OK, what about ESP. For example, for some unknown reason, you slow down nearing the entrance of a side road (you're on the main one) and a car sceames around the corner without taking one look. Had you not slowed down, the car would have been straight through your side.
Yes, I acknowledge that there are certain perceptions demonstrated by humans, perhaps by other organisms as well, we just can't tell, that defy our current understanding of the human brain. Such as feeling eyes on oneself without any way to physically be detecting that. This does not mean that it is supernatural, however, just currently inexplicable. Just like lightning and earthquakes were once though to be supernatural, but we now understand them.

As for the music, I'm mainly referring to Hinduism (7 chacras, yes?). Also, the mathematical beuty of the way sound can resonate, construction of various modes and scales, the ability of music to affect human emotion etc.
I don't know much about Hindu, but chakra is a yogic concept, which did indeed originate in Hindu. I don't see the connexion between music and chakra. Though if there are indeed seven points on the body for chakra, there are also seven notes detectable by the human ear, A through G. But I see nothing preternatural about music, though I've played the violin for years. It is just like poetry and visual art, in respect to affecting human emotions. There is mathematical beauty in many things, that is a fundamental Platonic concept. Physics is kinda like that.

Therefore, there must be a life after this one, which means that there must be purpose and meaning in this life. The truth is, right now, what you do for a living or whatever, THAT, is your purpose, your meaning. At least for now...

But I am in marketing....

My philosophy is that philosophy is a bunch of bull shit not worth wasting your time on. :D

Yes, I acknowledge that there are certain perceptions demonstrated by humans, perhaps by other organisms as well, we just can't tell, that defy our current understanding of the human brain. Such as feeling eyes on oneself without any way to physically be detecting that. This does not mean that it is supernatural, however, just currently inexplicable. Just like lightning and earthquakes were once though to be supernatural, but we now understand them.


I don't know much about Hindu, but chakra is a yogic concept, which did indeed originate in Hindu. I don't see the connexion between music and chakra. Though if there are indeed seven points on the body for chakra, there are also seven notes detectable by the human ear, A through G. But I see nothing preternatural about music, though I've played the violin for years. It is just like poetry and visual art, in respect to affecting human emotions. There is mathematical beauty in many things, that is a fundamental Platonic concept. Physics is kinda like that.

I agree with that, they are not necessarily 'supernatural' - I'll keep thinking. :)

A violinist. Greetings, I'm a horn player. However, I do feel - rightly or wrongly - that many of the properties of music are yet to be discovered. Pythagoras' fascination is good enough for me.

Christian Socialist Constitutionalism.

I believe in:
Inalianable right to life.
God given nonalienable right to self defense.
Inalienable right to reproductive freedom.
Inalienable right to freedom of religion. This includes the right to practice your religion in public places just as much as it includes a ban on government endorsement of religion.
The right of all people to equal treatment under the law. Brown Versus Board Education, rather than promoting this right, actually did a lot to undermine it.
The right to equal opportunity to succeed or fail on your own merits. Otherwise known in the Declaration of Independence as the right to pursue happiness.
The right to own private property and acquire wealth through legal means that do not violate other people's rights.
Those who violate other people's right to life (through murder or rape and the like) forfeit their own right to life.
Anyone who violates the rights of others, forfeits his own rights.
That once a person has paid for his crimes, ie. served his time, it is a violation of his rights to continue punishing him it.
A right of all people to basic healthcare.
I beleive that, in accordance with the doctrine in the gospels and Revelation, that the world is attempting to establish a one world government but that their efforts will fail.
I beleive that science and religion are not mutually exclusive. IE: Psalms states that the earth revolves around the sun. Nowhere does the bible state that the sun goes around the earth.
I believe there is only one true God and Jesus is his son.
I believe that you are not saved just merely by believing but that faith withou works is dead and will not get you into heaven.
I beleive the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are necessary otherwise we would be facing more serious problems in the future.
I believe men and women are equal because woman was made from man's side, to be his equal and his friend.
I believe in slavery as a legitimate form of punishment for breaking the law.
I believe volunteer armies are superior to drafted armies.
I believe the survival of the human race henges on its willingness to colonize the solar system and beyond.
I believe those who refuse to study history are doomed to repeat history.
I believe that love is something that should be given away as a free gift without any expectation of something in return.
I believe you should turn the other cheek, but remember to keep the big stick handy. Whatever you do, never walk away.
I believe that the age of consent should be 30.
I believe that the best way to find employment is to be multitasked and be able to do at least 3 different types of jobs. You'll be more likely to find jobs in shorter time period than if you only had one skill.
That music is more important than athletics but that both are necessary for learning new stuff.
I believe you should remember where you've been and watch where you going.
I believe people who stand by while a person is being assualted (robbed, mugged, raped, etc.) are as guilty of the crime as the actual perpetrator and should be punished accordingly. Same applies to those who know the crime is being committed but just continue to walk by, ignoring it, as if it wasn't happening, under the guise that its "none of their business".
Just a sample of my beliefs.
http://img86.exs.cx/img86/1377/Jetv2.gif

Christian Socialist Constitutionalism.

I believe in: (etc.)

I won't disagree with any of those beliefs. Except, perhaps I might dispute the needing to be 30 bit.

I won't disagree with any of those beliefs. Except, perhaps I might dispute the needing to be 30 bit.

The age 30 age of consent was the only problem you found? Let me show you a few others:

I believe men and women are equal because woman was made from man's side, to be his equal and his friend.
I believe in slavery as a legitimate form of punishment for breaking the law.
I believe the survival of the human race henges on its willingness to colonize the solar system and beyond.

I believe the survival of the human race henges on its willingness to colonize the solar system and beyond.

Where did that come from? lol

On top of that, he looks like a Nibiruan to me.

The age 30 age of consent was the only problem you found? Let me show you a few others:

I believe men and women are equal because woman was made from man's side, to be his equal and his friend.
I believe in slavery as a legitimate form of punishment for breaking the law.
I believe the survival of the human race henges on its willingness to colonize the solar system and beyond.

1. Straight out of the Bible... well, men and women are 'equal' in the sense that they should both be treated with equal respect, so who cares where the doctrine cames from? (I'll elaborate if you like.)

2. Temporarily, yes (depending on the crime). Convict would be much more useful to society working as free labour than chewing up taxpayers' money in prisons would they not? it is also heather for the criminals to be out working
(presumably manual labour)

3. Ultimately, this *is* true. Eventually, if man doesn't get off this rock (or somehow move it) the sun will consume it. The earth is an integral part of my spiritual being, but, eventually humans must migrate if the race is to survive. (I realise we are talking about a space of time that could see humans evolve into something else - hopefully better - also)

I think we should leave the rest of the solar system alone....but if some people wanna go build a rocketship and go colonize pluto...I am all for it...especially if its people who actually like Clay Aikens

Wouldn't it be like 8 billion years before the sun dries up, eats us, or whatever?

Ooh I can't stand Clay Aiken...when I watched some of that Christmas special he was hosting I thought to myself "this guy is so uncool, im just waiting for him to drop the mic and do an irish jig"

1. Straight out of the Bible... well, men and women are 'equal' in the sense that they should both be treated with equal respect, so who cares where the doctrine cames from? (I'll elaborate if you like.)

2. Temporarily, yes (depending on the crime). Convict would be much more useful to society working as free labour than chewing up taxpayers' money in prisons would they not? it is also heather for the criminals to be out working
(presumably manual labour)

3. Ultimately, this *is* true. Eventually, if man doesn't get off this rock (or somehow move it) the sun will consume it. The earth is an integral part of my spiritual being, but, eventually humans must migrate if the race is to survive. (I realise we are talking about a space of time that could see humans evolve into something else - hopefully better - also)
1. Correct.
2. As stated in my post earlier, if they have done their time, society should release them. Hence slavery is only for the period of their incarceration terms. They must be freed once their time is up.
3. The only way for humanity to evolve beyond its current point, is to colonize the solar system. Becuase we are now at an evolution logger point. We can't evolve further until something major happens.

I think we should leave the rest of the solar system alone....but if some people wanna go build a rocketship and go colonize pluto...I am all for it...especially if its people who actually like Clay Aikens
Whose he?

A leprachaun.

Whose he?

The Antii-Christ

but if some people wanna go build a rocketship and go colonize pluto...
I'm ACTUALLY planning on going there in RL--and terraforming it!

1. Correct.
2. As stated in my post earlier, if they have done their time, society should release them. Hence slavery is only for the period of their incarceration terms. They must be freed once their time is up.
3. The only way for humanity to evolve beyond its current point, is to colonize the solar system. Becuase we are now at an evolution logger point. We can't evolve further until something major happens.

3. We may not be able to evolve ecconomically, no. I do think, though, that humanity has plenty of space for intellectual, spiritual, cultural, and emotional evolution. There are plenty of things still to be dicovered about this world, about humans (as Gnostikos and I where discussing) before we need to move on. We are reaching a point where all humanity needs to have good, long look in the mirror and think about what's going on and where it could lead us, particularly where it wont lead us - anywhere if we're not careful.

"Sometimes a concept is baffling not because it is profound, but because it is wrong."
This signature is gold, by the way, just noticed it. LOL!

3. We may not be able to evolve ecconomically, no. I do think, though, that humanity has plenty of space for intellectual, spiritual, cultural, and emotional evolution. There are plenty of things still to be dicovered about this world, about humans (as Gnostikos and I where discussing) before we need to move on. We are reaching a point where all humanity needs to have good, long look in the mirror and think about what's going on and where it could lead us, particularly where it wont lead us - anywhere if we're not careful.
But there has to be a catalyst before this will happen. Meantime, humanity will just continue to live in the moment.

But there has to be a catalyst before this will happen. Meantime, humanity will just continue to live in the moment.

Unfortunately, very true. What form of catalyst do you propose?

1. Straight out of the Bible... well, men and women are 'equal' in the sense that they should both be treated with equal respect, so who cares where the doctrine cames from? (I'll elaborate if you like.)
Oh, ok, I understand now. It was the "because woman was made from man's side" that threw me off. I'll grant you that so that we don't get into a creationism discussion here, but I just can't help say "parthenogenesis". Sorry, ignore that.

This signature is gold, by the way, just noticed it. LOL!
Why thank you. E.O. Wilson really is just incredible sometimes, in my opinion.

Ahh, now here's something relevent:
Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal
I can't say I've heared of Wilson, peronally. Who is he?

I have always thought like an Analytic, more English than Continental influences on me, but eventually became downright American.

My basic Epistemology and Metaphysics are Peirce and Dewey's Pragmatism (not Royce's, James, or Russell's straw-man). In other words, I believe that as long as we are scientific and able to to adapt our beliefs to the best available knowledge, questions about the metaphysics of being are trivial. Feel free to call it a cop-out Philosophy - at your own risk. Peirce and Dewey are two of the greatest Philosophers ever.

I believe people who are anything more than academically fascinated by any a priori philosophy (Descartes and his followers), or anti-realist philosophy, nihilist philosophy, or idealist philosophy, are either deluded, or engaged in way too much mental self-stimulation.

I also subscribe to Wittgenstein's language game theory. And why not?

Ethically, in terms of personal relations, I'm pseudo-Kantian. I can't be bothered to make claims about his a priori metaphysics, but I have simply put, appropriated the categorical imperative as a way of life, and the idea that you cannot control what actually happens, or what fate you actually recieve, only the fate for which you are worthy.

In terms of distributive ethics, I break with Mr. Dewey and subscribe wholeheartedly to Adam Smith and David Ricardo. Capitalism - when properly regulated - should reward merit, and resources should move freely, for it is to the benefit of mankind that we all achieve our greatest potential.

Aesthetics: How can you endorse any one school? I think lots of authors have made good points on Aesthetics, from Kant to the anti-Kant. And since Aesthetics is dominated by you para-consistent Hegalian idealists, I don't need to choose, do I?


-Carolwood

"That which appears original might also in fact be nonsense"
-Kant, The Critique of Pure Judgment.

Ahh, now here's something relevent:
That quote is my exact reason for opposing genetic engineering, at least until we understand it a little better.

I can't say I've heared of Wilson, peronally. Who is he?
He's a renowned in the biological and ecological fields. He's a very prolific author, and has pretty much simply researched, separate from politics, unlike others like Rachel Carson, which gives him much more standing. I wouldn't advise you to read any unless you're interested in biology. But if you are, you must because he's terribly fascinating and illuminating.

Unfortunately, very true. What form of catalyst do you propose?
I am not proposing anything because the catalyst could be anything. We just don't know. A meteor could strike the earth, humans could end up nuking each other, there could be somekind super epidemic that wipes out most of humanity, there could be nearby supernova (we are heading into a crowded section of the Milky Way filled with stars getting ready to go Super Nova.)
Major climate change.
It could be anything.

That quote is my exact reason for opposing genetic engineering, at least until we understand it a little better.


He's a renowned in the biological and ecological fields. He's a very prolific author, and has pretty much simply researched, separate from politics, unlike others like Rachel Carson, which gives him much more standing. I wouldn't advise you to read any unless you're interested in biology. But if you are, you must because he's terribly fascinating and illuminating.

I am interested in biology, so I may look into his works, thanks.

there could be somekind super epidemic that wipes out most of humanity
Beware the bird flu...and pray that it does not become transmissible from human-to-human. (cannot remember the techinical term, does anyone else know?)

Hang on... I just got very confused about deletion of posts... whoops (Ignor everything I did in the last minute or so).

Beware the bird flu...and pray that it does not become transmissible from human-to-human. (cannot remember the techinical term, does anyone else know?)
They had a report that it already had. The asians had found a case in which the virus transferred from one human to another for the first time. I think it was in southwest China. The article appeared about a week or two ago.

I am not proposing anything because the catalyst could be anything. We just don't know. A meteor could strike the earth, humans could end up nuking each other, there could be somekind super epidemic that wipes out most of humanity, there could be nearby supernova (we are heading into a crowded section of the Milky Way filled with stars getting ready to go Super Nova.)
Major climate change.
It could be anything.
I really hope it's "The Day After Tomorrow" coming to life that will happen!!! *evil grin*

I am not proposing anything because the catalyst could be anything. We just don't know. A meteor could strike the earth, humans could end up nuking each other, there could be somekind super epidemic that wipes out most of humanity, there could be nearby supernova (we are heading into a crowded section of the Milky Way filled with stars getting ready to go Super Nova.)
Major climate change.
It could be anything.

Guess we're doomed then. :(

My philosophy is that philosophy is a bunch of bull shit not worth wasting your time on. :D

Thats Derrida's philosophy too! But he liked wasting time and paper writing about how much bullshit it truly is...

Guess we're doomed then. :(
I wouldn't mind if I ended up being the last man on earth. Cause then I could have all the women to myself. :D

I wouldn't mind if I ended up being the last man on earth. Cause then I could have all the women to myself. :D
Be sure to give one to me! :D

And please let "The Day After Tomorrow" come to life...:D *evil grin*

Thats Derrida's philosophy too! But he liked wasting time and paper writing about how much bullshit it truly is...

Really? I think thinking about what you're doing and why is a good idea, but thats just me.

They had a report that it already had. The asians had found a case in which the virus transferred from one human to another for the first time. I think it was in southwest China. The article appeared about a week or two ago.
No, I read about that, but we would already be screwed over if that were true. It was believed that she might have contracted the disease from another human, but there wasn't any conclusive evidence that she didn't get it from another host.

I wouldn't mind if I ended up being the last man on earth. Cause then I could have all the women to myself. :D

Not an overly grim image of the future. ;)

No, I read about that, but we would already be screwed over if that were true. It was believed that she might have contracted the disease from another human, but there wasn't any conclusive evidence that she didn't get it from another host.

Thank goodness for that.

Be sure to give one to me! :D

And please let "The Day After Tomorrow" come to life...:D *evil grin*
Actually I am kind of hoping for a Day After Tomorrow type of scenario.

Really? I think thinking about what you're doing and why is a good idea, but thats just me.

thinking about what you are doing in the here and now and why is good..speculating about thinking about why you are thinking about thinking is not that good...its bullshit. To me specualtion isnt that good period, i mean it has its purpose and function but often we speculate about stuff that can not be known or ever be known...or proven...or even contemplated in a sensible manner...which is not a good idea...ya know what i am sayin'?

Actually I am kind of hoping for a Day After Tomorrow type of scenario.
Ooh... goody! :cool: What are your reasons for it?

Oh well, dinner time for me. I'll be sure to but back in if anyone's still around when I get back. :)

I have figured out the meaning of life!!!!!

The meaning of life is....that there is no meaning.

We are here because we are the best the Universe can do. We have our faults but we are it. Isn't it amazing how something that has no life and evolves to the point where it creates something that can think, feel, touch, smell, taste, and hear. Also realize that there is actually a universe and can create things itself. It is really mind boggling to think about. I think that is better then any god can do.

I have no philosophy!

thinking about what you are doing in the here and now and why is good..speculating about thinking about why you are thinking about thinking is not that good...its bullshit. To me specualtion isnt that good period, i mean it has its purpose and function but often we speculate about stuff that can not be known or ever be known...or proven...or even contemplated in a sensible manner...which is not a good idea...ya know what i am sayin'?
Then why the hell did you start an exitential and philosophical thread? You say you loathe speculation while you speculate. You are speculation against speculation! :confused:

thinking about what you are doing in the here and now and why is good..speculating about thinking about why you are thinking about thinking is not that good...its bullshit. To me specualtion isnt that good period, i mean it has its purpose and function but often we speculate about stuff that can not be known or ever be known...or proven...or even contemplated in a sensible manner...which is not a good idea...ya know what i am sayin'?

Yes, but I disagree. Thinking about our thinking is important. Yes, you can go to the extreme of thinking about thinking about thinking etc. But thats a bit silly... so i agree in that sense.

Yes, but I disagree. Thinking about our thinking is important. Yes, you can go to the extreme of thinking about thinking about thinking etc. But thats a bit silly... so i agree in that sense.
Don't you have dinner to eat? ;)

Then why the hell did you start an exitential and philosophical thread? You say you loathe speculation while you speculate. You are speculation against speculation! :confused:

Frickin' nihilist...they are always starting somethin'...its a nihilist tenet...just because you beleive something it doesnt mean you have to be consistent

The Dude abides!

I have figured out the meaning of life!!!!!

The meaning of life is....that there is no meaning.

We are here because we are the best the Universe can do. We have our faults but we are it. Isn't it amazing how something that has no life and evolves to the point where it creates something that can think, feel, touch, smell, taste, and hear. Also realize that there is actually a universe and can create things itself. It is really mind boggling to think about. I think that is better then any god can do.

Don't you have dinner to eat? ;)
Yes, I just ate it! Shock horror, I warped time! Time you all thought was linear. Ha Ha Hah. Seriously, I just answered that reply before I left.

Ooh... goody! :cool: What are your reasons for it?
It'll be fun.

It'll be fun.
Same here. But for me, even MORE fun, since I just LOVE the cold (look at my screen name)!

However, I wouldn't last a minute in it, because I'm so skinny, just 100 pounds at 5'2. I have no fat to keep me warm. In fact, when we went out to dinner earlier tonight (yesterday, technically), although it was above zero, the cold actually hurt in my bones, so I would have to move to florida when TDAT does happen.

On top of that, he looks like a Nibiruan to me.

Are you referring to an ET Wanderer (extraterrestrial soul voluntarilly incarnated here from a higher existance)?

I'm not going to quote because theres too many referring to this:

First of all, yes, i believe the Earth (I prefer Terra) is a living entity.

Global warming isn't currently caused mainly by pollution, but mostly by a planetary/solar cycle coming to an end. So:

All these Earth changes currently going on (natural disasters have increased hundreds of percent in the past century alone, polar ice melting fast, increasing animal extinctions, etc.) is caused by this cycle coming to an end. The Earth itself is heating up from the inside out as more energy is pouring in to the core (which is not solid, its energetic, more like the sun). Which means...

In/around 2012, this planet will be competely in the 4th Density/dimensional level (we are currently in the 3rd). Ascension/Second Coming, whatever you may call it is getting very, very close.

KEEP IN MIND that I am NOT impeding doom, it is an enterance into new life closer to Oneness, where, for example, mind over matter feats are every day abilities: This is the New Heaven/New Earth so much talked about (why Earth if theres only a heaven?{refering to Christianity beliefs(sry, hehe)})

also brings some new meaning to what Jesus said, "As I do these things, so shall ye do them, and greater things." (When would we do these and why would we need them if we were in a perfect paradise where no need for them would be? AND, when would this become true but now?)

Sorry for the lengthyness, but its only a fraction of what i believe.
If you want a huge, huge amount of evidence to scientifically prove waht i'm saying, you can read some free, online books that explain it all. www.ascension2000.com

I used to be Christian but now, this stuff put everything in a new light. ;)

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Constantinople was the seat of the Orthodox Church. Also, the cultural history of Europe was, in large part, preserved by the Muslims in the middle east. Other than that, I agree.

Constantinople became the seat of the Othodox church, but not until after the Byzantines had ceased to be influential, and yes the cultural history of Europe was preserved in the middle east, but it was lost to europeans until cultural exchange with the middle east led to the renaissance, as I said at the end of my post.

Constantinople became the seat of the Othodox church, but not until after the Byzantines had ceased to be influential, and yes the cultural history of Europe was preserved in the middle east, but it was lost to europeans until cultural exchange with the middle east led to the renaissance, as I said at the end of my post.

Ahhh, yes, you could have added that the exchange involved a lot of this formerly lost knowledge and culture.

I'm not going to quote because theres too many referring to this:

First of all, yes, i believe the Earth (I prefer Terra) is a living entity.

Global warming isn't currently caused mainly by pollution, but mostly by a planetary/solar cycle coming to an end. So:

All these Earth changes currently going on (natural disasters have increased hundreds of percent in the past century alone, polar ice melting fast, increasing animal extinctions, etc.) is caused by this cycle coming to an end. The Earth itself is heating up from the inside out as more energy is pouring in to the core (which is not solid, its energetic, more like the sun). Which means...

In/around 2012, this planet will be competely in the 4th Density/dimensional level (we are currently in the 3rd). Ascension/Second Coming, whatever you may call it is getting very, very close.

KEEP IN MIND that I am NOT impeding doom, it is an enterance into new life closer to Oneness, where, for example, mind over matter feats are every day abilities: This is the New Heaven/New Earth so much talked about (why Earth if theres only a heaven?{refering to Christianity beliefs(sry, hehe)})

also brings some new meaning to what Jesus said, "As I do these things, so shall ye do them, and greater things." (When would we do these and why would we need them if we were in a perfect paradise where no need for them would be? AND, when would this become true but now?)

Sorry for the lengthyness, but its only a fraction of what i believe.
If you want a huge, huge amount of evidence to scientifically prove waht i'm saying, you can read some free, online books that explain it all. www.ascension2000.com

I used to be Christian but now, this stuff put everything in a new light. ;)
OK, see you at the other end ;) .

Frederich Nietzche is my homeboy.

Are you referring to an ET Wanderer (extraterrestrial soul voluntarilly incarnated here from a higher existance)?
No, I mean he seems like a descendant of a Nibiruan-worshiper (worshiping the fake nibiruan god(s) )

No, I mean he seems like a descendant of a Nibiruan-worshiper (worshiping the fake nibiruan god(s) )
I haven't heard of those. Could you explain what they are or link to a place where it does?

Global warming isn't currently caused mainly by pollution, but mostly by a planetary/solar cycle coming to an end.
The rest of your post shows that you're either joking or just plain weird, but there is no proof of this statement. It is terribly fallacious to just assume that's true. It might be, but the consequences are too terrifying to just assume lik that.

I haven't heard of those. Could you explain what they are or link to a place where it does?
That was just my opinion. I have no idea wether or not he actually is a space alien. :p :D

My opinions about Nibiru can be found here:

May have to scroll down a bit to find it.

http://www.immortal.com/bbs/YaBB.cgi?board=ScienceandTechnology;action=display;num=1050543270;start=45#45

Going back to the original premise of the thread:

* I believe that there is an immortal spirit that was the first efficient cause of all things

* I believe that the universe is far too complex and exists within far too strict of tolerances to have come about by sheer chance ... Better odds of a bear cub typing out the U.N. charter by randomly banging on a keyboard ...

* I believe that mankind has left it's infancy .... only to become an arrogant youth, disdaining the beliefs of our ancestors and dismissing them as ignorant fools and thinking we know everything when we truly know only a little of how reality really works ..

* I believe that man is far more than an animal ... that we do have a soul ... Problem is, too often we ignore its promptings and sink to a bestial level simply to satisfy the urges of the moment.

* I believe that governments, of one form or another, always have and always will be with us ... because we need to organize to survive.

* I believe that war, greed, poverty and all the other ills of the world will always be with us to a degree, because man is a fallen creature. We haven't changed fundamentally since the dawn times ...

* I believe that capitalism, though flawed, is probably the best economic system designed to date, simply because it is founded upon the basic premise that humans are selfish and will strive to enrich themselves, rather than some pie in the sky utopian ideal of us all "working together to rid the world of suffering".

My opinions about Nibiru can be found here:

May have to scroll down a bit to find it.

http://www.immortal.com/bbs/YaBB.cgi?board=ScienceandTechnology;action=display;num=1050543270;start=45#45
I'm sure that you came across that picture for no other reason than to look for a Nibiruian, right?

Going back to the original premise of the thread:

* I believe that there is an immortal spirit that was the first efficient cause of all things

* I believe that the universe is far too complex and exists within far too strict of tolerances to have come about by sheer chance ... Better odds of a bear cub typing out the U.N. charter by randomly banging on a keyboard ...

* I believe that mankind has left it's infancy .... only to become an arrogant youth, disdaining the beliefs of our ancestors and dismissing them as ignorant fools and thinking we know everything when we truly know only a little of how reality really works ..

* I believe that man is far more than an animal ... that we do have a soul ... Problem is, too often we ignore its promptings and sink to a bestial level simply to satisfy the urges of the moment.

* I believe that governments, of one form or another, always have and always will be with us ... because we need to organize to survive.

* I believe that war, greed, poverty and all the other ills of the world will always be with us to a degree, because man is a fallen creature. We haven't changed fundamentally since the dawn times ...

* I believe that capitalism, though flawed, is probably the best economic system designed to date, simply because it is founded upon the basic premise that humans are selfish and will strive to enrich themselves, rather than some pie in the sky utopian ideal of us all "working together to rid the world of suffering".

Yep, I agree with that. Shame about human greed.

I'm sure that you came across that picture for no other reason than to look for a Nibiruian, right?
:Dhttp://img12.exs.cx/img12/7002/Jet.gif

The idea of something (Earth and Universe) coming form nothing is mind-boggling. The fact that we are here seems to defy any conventional science.
Also, many of the major religions fail to explain previous events in our Earth's history (dinosaurs and all that) well enough for me to assume that they are correct. I was born a Hindu, and I like that religion not because I believe it is the most correct, but becasue I like its tenets (i.e. all religions are just different paths to the same goal or god and that the gods of Hinduism are more symbolic than actually existent).
Politically, I'm a moderate democrat. Used to be pretty authoritarian, and I still am a bit. I think a libertarian form of government would be devastating, probably worse than communism. There's a reason man went from anarchy (prehistoric times) to government; as John Locke said, a government is necessary.
Also, I believe that, at this present time: Environment = Terrorism > All other issues. Terrorists will probably (and hopefully) never destroy America, but we could most certainly end up destroying ourselves if we neglect the environment.

Yep, I agree with that.
You agree that humans have a soul? That's pretty sad. I'm willing to at least tolerate the view that everything has a soul, or all life, but not that humans are exceptions.

The rest of your post shows that you're either joking or just plain weird, but there is no proof of this statement. It is terribly fallacious to just assume that's true. It might be, but the consequences are too terrifying to just assume lik that.

First of all, its not terrifying at all. Second, theres 3 free books packed full of scientific proof of everything. I'm not an uneducated person in this aspect, and I checked things for myself. Its real.

There's a reason man went from anarchy (prehistoric times) to government; as John Locke said, a government is necessary.

I think the rise of government is similar to the concept of original sin. We started out free, but fled from the responsibility of freedom and created hierarchy.

It is,
I am;
Therefore, I am It.


What i'm of course referring to is a point so small it encompasses everything. The singular quantum particle. The 4th movement of beethoven's ninth symphony.


Freude, schöner Götterfunken
Tochter aus Elysium

O you mean political philosophy.
Wow, i ought to read the first post.


As concerns that:

I dismiss all utopian ideals out of hand and concentrate on a pragmatic, topical and case-by-case approach using as a model the successful socialist states of northern europe, japan and canada.

That leads to certain categorical statements like "republicans and libertarians are bad" and "bush is a godawful failure."

First of all, its not terrifying at all. Second, theres 3 free books packed full of scientific proof of everything. I'm not an uneducated person in this aspect, and I checked things for myself. Its real.
Global warming is real. If it is human impact that is causing this, than the results will indeed be terrifying beyond most people's comprehension. If it's not then we're screwed no matter what we do. But there is no conclusive evidence for either side. It is doubtless that humans are causing global warming. What isn't known is just how much. You are indeed uneducated if you think that you know the answer to what is the primary cause of global warming. And of course the extinction of species is not at all influenced by human means...despite our destruction of their habitats...

The Earth itself is heating up from the inside out as more energy is pouring in to the core (which is not solid, its energetic, more like the sun).
If our core was an enormous hydrogen bomb, we would not exist. And from whence does this "energy" come from? I'm sorry, but this and your other points are about as plausible as the concept that the Holocaust was Jewish propaganda.

If our core was an enormous hydrogen bomb, we would not exist. And from whence does this "energy" come from? I'm sorry, but this and your other points are about as plausible as the concept that the Holocaust was Jewish propaganda.

If the core was an enormous hydrogen bomb, we would be on Krypton wouldn't we?

What I believe may seem weird but it's what I believe and I like believing it..

I believe that everything happens for a reason. There are no accidents.

I think that we get re-incarnated a few times before we become one with "God"

I think that "God" is more of an energy feild rather than a person with a form and appearance.

Our higher self has no appearance.

Everything that hapens.. we already planned before we came on this Earth. Have you ever had any weird coincidences?

And i think that there is karma in the sense that what goes around comes around.

Global warming is real. If it is human impact that is causing this, than the results will indeed be terrifying beyond most people's comprehension. If it's not then we're screwed no matter what we do. But there is no conclusive evidence for either side. It is doubtless that humans are causing global warming. What isn't known is just how much. You are indeed uneducated if you think that you know the answer to what is the primary cause of global warming. And of course the extinction of species is not at all influenced by human means...despite our destruction of their habitats...


If our core was an enormous hydrogen bomb, we would not exist. And from whence does this "energy" come from? I'm sorry, but this and your other points are about as plausible as the concept that the Holocaust was Jewish propaganda.

Theres proof for everything I have stated, you just have to be open enough to read about it. The energy I was talking about is literally everywhere - the most minute make-up of the universe. Gravity, is more or less the flowing of this aetheric energy into the center of the Earth. The releasing pressure from the core causes this energy to flow back up though not as strong (opposite of direction of gravity, basically). This aether energy is basically exactly what String Theory is figuring out, except that its incomplete. How can you have a Unified Field Theory with only the scientific and not the philosophical part blended into eachother?

Global warming is real, yes. I'm saying its about 75% natural and 25% caused by humans (or worsened).
Heres some things conventional science cannot explain, but this can perfectly:

1) Pyramids - many located both under and above water across the world, the Great Pyramid is so precise in measurement and would have literally been impossible to build just because of the weight with the technology we thought they had. They must have been able to move/alter material with their minds or else it would be impossible.

2) the psychic phenomena - its real, as proven by much scientific research. Mainstream media always pushes away this information because its thought to be crazy, but its not. Everyone posseses it, they just have to learn how to use it.

3) Plants (as well as any other organic life -including humans) respond to emotional energy - say loving words to a plant and it will grow very well. Say evil hating words to a plant and it will not grow as well.

4) Geometric shapes produced by sound in water - certain vibration will cause water to form a geometric outline shape inside (must be magnified to see)

5) Bermuda Triangle - magnetic interference, lost/disappearing ships, etc. Many similar locations are found *in geometric order* around the planet. This proves that these are geometric energy exit points.

6) Underlying geometrically shaped energy structures can be found throughout the solar system

7) Literally everything has some form of harmonic, geometric formation, especially planets.

8) Theres a ton more but my list is getting kinda long so i'll leave it at that ;)

These cannot be easily explained by conventional physics, because it is incomplete and doesnt want to deal with what it cannot explain.

This aetheric energy model incorperates everything from spritual/philosophical and scientific information. Everything fits hand in hand - everything can be easily explained.