NationStates Jolt Archive

Personally I like Beethoven only because of his symphony #5. I just want to see what NSers like.

They are too far apart in styles to really be a good comparison, and if you like one you are likely to like the other. Beethoven is great, but you gotta respect Bach for laying it all out for everyone.

Now, if you wanted a comparison you can sink your teeth into, comparing Beethoven and Mozart. One followed the other almost directly and one directly rejected the other. I myself hate Mozart. His music is 'perfect' but that doesn't neccisarily make it good. He is in effect the proof of Bach and the composers that came before him, but his mathematical understanding of exactly how music works was more to me a cement point, that the inherent harmonic structure of the tempered scale can go no further than this, find new roads. And the the person that personified that new direction was Beethoven. He's my choice.

Actually, my stage name in the Techo/Rock band I'm in, the Trojan Taco, is Backtoven. I play piano/synth, strangley enough.

And I like Beethoven the most.

I can't actively recall any particular 'tune :p ' by Bach but I do think his music is more emotive, and pehaps stronger than old Beethoven's. Then again Beethoven is more acessable. Oh I can't decide, I'll say Straus (can't remember which one but I think the younger of the sons) just cause I love waltzes (what is the plural of waltz?).

I can't actively recall any particular 'tune :p ' by Bach but I do think his music is more emotive, and pehaps stronger than old Beethoven's. Then again Beethoven is more acessable. Oh I can't decide, I'll say Straus (can't remember which one but I think the younger of the sons) just cause I love waltzes (what is the plural of waltz?).
Johann, and you're a freak.......:D

They are too far apart in styles to really be a good comparison, and if you like one you are likely to like the other. Beethoven is great, but you gotta respect Bach for laying it all out for everyone.

Now, if you wanted a comparison you can sink your teeth into, comparing Beethoven and Mozart. One followed the other almost directly and one directly rejected the other. I myself hate Mozart. His music is 'perfect' but that doesn't neccisarily make it good. He is in effect the proof of Bach and the composers that came before him, but his mathematical understanding of exactly how music works was more to me a cement point, that the inherent harmonic structure of the tempered scale can go no further than this, find new roads. And the the person that personified that new direction was Beethoven. He's my choice.
You're definately correct you can't really compare Romantic with Baroque. Everyone knows Baroque is better anyway :p
Beethoven followed Mozart incidentally, I believe Beethoven was young when Mozart died. According to my music student friend (which as we all know are infalable resources ;)) has told me that Salieri taught Beethoven choiral arrangement.

Oh yea I vote for JS Bach (the initials are important, some of Bach's children were also composers)

They were both incredible innovators, but for me, Bach always seems more organized, clinical, intellectual and Beethoven more free-range, passionate, and emotional. Both are exceptional musical experiences, but I personally prefer Beethoven. He had a capcity to grasp for heaven and wallow in sorrow, all in the same movement. There's a power to Bach's music that I adore, but I cannot hold him in the same regard as little Ludwig.

But Mozart? He's a punk; I hate his crap.

You're definately correct you can't really compare Romantic with Baroque. Everyone knows Baroque is better anyway :p
Beethoven followed Mozart incidentally, I believe Beethoven was young when Mozart died. According to my music student friend (which as we all know are infalable resources ;)) has told me that Salieri taught Beethoven choiral arrangement.

Oh yea I vote for JS Bach (the initials are important, some of Bach's children were also composers)
I wasn't putting them in order, Beethoven did follow Mozart-he would have to have to reject Mozart. I have a limited capacity for Baroque music, mostly just organ arrangements or Bach himself. (especially the solo cello stuff, man alive....)

Johann, and you're a freak.......:D

You sound just like my therapist :D

But Mozart? He's a punk; I hate his crap.
Sweet, I'm usually alone in this...

Beethoven is more accessible, but Bach practically created "Western" music as we know it. He even predicted rock music... just listen to the harpsichord solo at the end of the 1st movement of Brandenburg Concerto 5! :D

**Thread hijack**
Okay then, Bach or Wagner? Both undisputed musical visionaries, both geniuses. If you cut out the German oritorios I'd vote for Wagner.

Beethoven, after Moonlight Sonata, everything fades to a question of how much can you love this beautiful music, rather than if

**Thread hijack**
Okay then, Bach or Wagner? Both undisputed musical visionaries, both geniuses. If you cut out the German oritorios I'd vote for Wagner.
Same problem, it would have to be Wagner and Mahler or Wagner and Strauss (Richard). The latter has the same kind of self-importance.

**Thread hijack**
Okay then, Bach or Wagner? Both undisputed musical visionaries, both geniuses. If you cut out the German oritorios I'd vote for Wagner.
They weren't contemporaries either. Wagner was born 60 years after Bach died.

Beethoven, after Moonlight Sonata, everything fades to a question of how much can you love this beautiful music, rather than if

Just an aside, I love those people who don't realize the Moonlight Sonata has 3 movements yet act like they know everything about classical music. I find the second movement kind of boring lol.

Mozart.

Just an aside, I love those people who don't realize the Moonlight Sonata has 3 movements yet act like they know everything about classical music. I find the second movement kind of boring lol.

Well, granted the first movement is obviously the best, the entire opera needs the entire piece, and in this case - the first movement easily makes up for any shortcomings to follow. ;)

Neither. Both deserve an ample amount of credit, for without Bach, most modern music probably wouldn't be possible. Beethoven was highly influential was well, but personally, I'll take Shostakovitch over either of them.

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Now, if you wanted a comparison you can sink your teeth into, comparing Beethoven and Mozart. One followed the other almost directly and one directly rejected the other. I myself hate Mozart. His music is 'perfect' but that doesn't neccisarily make it good. He is in effect the proof of Bach and the composers that came before him, but his mathematical understanding of exactly how music works was more to me a cement point, that the inherent harmonic structure of the tempered scale can go no further than this, find new roads. And the the person that personified that new direction was Beethoven. He's my choice.
Time was I would have agreed with your assessment of Mozart, for much the same reasons. Then I had to study one of his short pieces for a course he was doing, and I had to reverse my opinion.

What swung it for me is that he picks his instruments perfectly, and enables you to live in the moment when your listening to his music. Yes, it's unemotional compared to Beethoven; and yes, it's not as spare as Bach. But it is very intensely musical, so I'm a convert.

I'm a music major myself, so excuse me if I pontificate too much.

Bach is great. His motets and organ music are wonderful... he's a fascinating man as well as a musician. His experiments with tempered instruments are worth listening to him alone. His works are extremely fun too study because they are so intricate... he worked so hard to place every note where it was meant to be.

Beethoven, on the other hand, is practically two composers. Early Beethoven, in my opinion, is not worth much note. It's excellent music, yes, but it's been heard before and done better (by Mozart and Haydn to be specific). His later works are a whole other story... they're practically orgas mic. When you hear his music, you can't think of anything else. When you study his music, you're amazed and want to learn more. Beethoven ushered in a new area of exploration in music; Bach was the culmination of one. Bach represented all his time had to offer and more; Beethoven was the beginning of something completely new. I like innovation... that's why I like Beethoven better in the end, while still holding a great respect for Bach. I also tend to look at Baroque music as a tool for people who don't want to take the time to really listen to modern music, but still want the sophistication of being classical... much like Josh Groban and Charlotte Church, in that way. But I'm probably being overly critical.

Mozart, on the other hand, is a puzzle to me. I don't feel that it's proper to judge for his lack of innovation simply because he didn't really have the chance to be innovative, because he was not granted the benefit of long life (a benefit Beethoven exploited to it's fullest). He had amazing talent and was without a doubt a genius, but his music at times seems far too much like a part writing excercise to me. That's not to say that it wasn't beautiful and compelling... it was without a doubt. But it's not the intellectual playground of Beethoven's music. Mozart's operas, on the other hand, are a completely different story... I'm in love with them myself. He could write better for voices and show them off so beautifully. He made sure all of the words had a direct connection of the music and vice versa. His plots are complicated and extremely innovative for the time. Mozart did for opera, in my opinion, what Beethoven did for instrumental music.

But favourite and least favourite composers? Least favourite is without a doubt Wagner. Don't like his politics; don't like him forcing singers to sing over a full orchestra, including brass (so many singers have ruined their voice on it). I recognize that his music is brilliant, but I can't help but temper it with my opinion of him as a person, which is extremely low. Same with Liszt. My favourite composer is more difficult. I adore Beethoven, Stravinsky, and Schumann, but I also love Palestrina and Bellini. Of the modern composers, I'm a huge fan of Glass, Berg, Argento, and Varese, particularly Glass. I'll listen to anything if someone I respect recommends it.

(Cage is also cool... I like his piece for metronome in particular. But I should shut up.)