NationStates Jolt Archive

Once again the evil that is rape has touched my life... It's happened to several of my friends, now I find out it's touched my life directly...

A few months ago my then girlfriend went very distant and I couldn't understand why. It was a distance relationship and that was a strain, but we were doing fine, saw each other when we could and spent hours on the phone...she suddenly changed and swore nothing was wrong...a couple of months later we broke up.

Move forward 3 1/2 months to last night....she told me the reason why she went so cold and distant...while walking home from work she was jumped and subject to an horrific assault...for 2 hours in sight of her home...I won't go into detail but it was horrific and left her pregnant and with an STD, she terminated the pregnancy.

I feel so broken up inside, if she'd had told me at the time I would have stood by her, but I can understand why she kept it to herself for so long...

I've gotta be strong now and be there for her, but this is something I've never got my head around...How can someone do such an awful thing to someone? Why aren't rapists in the UK locked up perminently? Why did someone so kind, loving and beautiful have something so evil done to her?

I know the answers to those questions may seem obvious, but why in todays society would something like this still happen? And I know it does on a daily basis...

The world is a cold and evil place, the only thing keeping me in it is the islands of light I call the ones I love...

Sorry to hear that.

Sorry to hear that.

Thanks...I just hope the b****** is caught...

Once again the evil that is rape has touched my life... It's happened to several of my friends, now I find out it's touched my life directly...

A few months ago my then girlfriend went very distant and I couldn't understand why. It was a distance relationship and that was a strain, but we were doing fine, saw each other when we could and spent hours on the phone...she suddenly changed and swore nothing was wrong...a couple of months later we broke up.

Move forward 3 1/2 months to last night....she told me the reason why she went so cold and distant...while walking home from work she was jumped and subject to an horrific assault...for 2 hours in sight of her home...I won't go into detail but it was horrific and left her pregnant and with an STD, she terminated the pregnancy.

I feel so broken up inside, if she'd had told me at the time I would have stood by her, but I can understand why she kept it to herself for so long...

I've gotta be strong now and be there for her, but this is something I've never got my head around...How can someone do such an awful thing to someone? Why aren't rapists in the UK locked up perminently? Why did someone so kind, loving and beautiful have something so evil done to her?

I know the answers to those questions may seem obvious, but why in todays society would something like this still happen? And I know it does on a daily basis...

The world is a cold and evil place, the only thing keeping me in it is the islands of light I call the ones I love...


Know how you feel man …

SAME thing happened to me (except the std and the insight of house)

My girlfriend had some co workers over and all but one left … they hung out for awhile and then …

Lets just say I understand
She chose to terminate also

I didn’t know about it till almost a year afterwards though … my heart goes out to all rape victims

I can't even imagine how it must feel for either of you...

Just thinking about something like that happening to my fiancee fills me with rage almost to the point of uncontrollable shaking... Heck, I could see myself putting guys in the hospital (or worse) just for hitting her... But if something like that were to happen? Of course, without knowing who the [the word I want to use isn't appropriate for these forums] was, I'd end up feeling so helpless...

Not to mention the feeling of not being there for her... I mean, it's my "job" to protect her... If that happened, I'd feel like I failed in that (even if I wasn't or couldn't be around to do anything...I'd feel like I should have been)...

But yeah, there are too many sickos in this world, and not strong enough punishments for them when they're caught... If it were up to me, a convicted rapist would face a hell of a lot of jail time, and castration...

Know how you feel man …

SAME thing happened to me (except the std and the insight of house)

My girlfriend had some co workers over and all but one left … they hung out for awhile and then …

Lets just say I understand
She chose to terminate also

I didn’t know about it till almost a year afterwards though … my heart goes out to all rape victims

Now you know why my wife carries a gun.

Now you know why my wife carries a gun.
What suprizes me is that he was able to do it ... my ex GF was one of the most fit people I know we tried to tickle her once and it took 4 of us! (lets just say we are not small)
As far as I know no wepon

But now most people dont mess with her ... got herself in the army :)

Sorry to hear that, Rising Sun of Doom and UpwardThrust. All I can say is, i'm glad I can't relate to your situations.

Sorry to hear that, Rising Sun of Doom and UpwardThrust. All I can say is, i'm glad I can't relate to your situations.
Lets just say I found the guy.. not a moment I am proud of

I also feel for those who are products of rape, knowing your father is not person you wanted him to be.

I also feel for those who are products of rape, knowing your father is not person you wanted him to be.
Hear hear … I wonder how many people are actually told they are a “rape baby”

Seems to me would be one of the strongest probability of a made up “moved away” story

What suprizes me is that he was able to do it ... my ex GF was one of the most fit people I know we tried to tickle her once and it took 4 of us! (lets just say we are not small)
As far as I know no wepon

But now most people dont mess with her ... got herself in the army :)

Many people are under the impression that rapists carry weapons. Most do not. Many people are under the impression that being fit or knowing some self-defense techniques will protect you. In most cases, it does not.

Carrying a gun, and using it, is the best defense against rape, according to the Department of Justice.

Many people are under the impression that rapists carry weapons. Most do not. Many people are under the impression that being fit or knowing some self-defense techniques will protect you. In most cases, it does not.

Carrying a gun, and using it, is the best defense against rape, according to the Department of Justice.
I know but lets say I am a3rd degree black belt in 2 disciplines … she would whoop me

I’m not talking about taking one self defense course …

But yeah the moment the threats I can see it happening … still does not reduce the initial shock

Carrying a gun, and using it, is the best defense against rape, according to the Department of Justice.

I don't know, you still need to know how to use it and have it handy at the moment, one when you may not be thinking straight. Could help, but could also cause far more damage.

I support whoever asked for castration against rapists. (Yes, I'm a liberal, I'm against death sentence and torture, but that doesn't mean I'm against physical punishment and forced labor for those deserving).

I know but lets say I am a3rd degree black belt in 2 disciplines … she would whoop me

I’m not talking about taking one self defense course …

But yeah the moment the threats I can see it happening … still does not reduce the initial shock

No, it doesn't reduce the shock. And to a large extent, our police and courts are no help, either.

If we assume that there are only 500,000 police in the US, then perhaps 150,000 might be on duty at any time. Spread that all over the US. Now hope that one shows up when the rapist has you cornered.

Short of making this a police state, you'll carry a gun. Men can be raped, too.

I don't know, you still need to know how to use it and have it handy at the moment, one when you may not be thinking straight. Could help, but could also cause far more damage.

I support whoever asked for castration against rapists. (Yes, I'm a liberal, I'm against death sentence and torture, but that doesn't mean I'm against physical punishment and forced labor for those deserving).
Whee, someone else with my view. Any confrontation of the rape type is likely to happen at or below 6 feet. As such aiming is not nearly the problem most people think it would be. All one needs to do to train is set up a human sized target about 6 feet away and concentrate on drawing and shooting as fast as they can until the movement becomes second nature to them. It would probably best for those unsure of their ability with a gun to get a revolver of some sort, and to load it with hollowpoints as it increases stopping power and decreases the slim chance of civvie casualties.

No, it doesn't reduce the shock. And to a large extent, our police and courts are no help, either.

If we assume that there are only 500,000 police in the US, then perhaps 150,000 might be on duty at any time. Spread that all over the US. Now hope that one shows up when the rapist has you cornered.

Short of making this a police state, you'll carry a gun. Men can be raped, too.
On a light note I had a friend chace away a atempted rapist with a nice big can of mace :)

All one needs to do to train is set up a human sized target about 6 feet away and concentrate on drawing and shooting as fast as they can until the movement becomes second nature to them.

That's my concern: the training. Most people would just carry a gun and get a false sense of security (like most people who drive a SUV). Training has to be systematic, regular and supervised to be any good. This applies not only to guns, of course.

Plus knowing other forms of self-defense is never bad. You can always be jumped from behind, be immobilized, attacked with a weapon, etc. Situations that you have to know how to handle, and know how to improvise.

That's my concern: the training. Most people would just carry a gun and get a false sense of security (like most people who drive a SUV). Training has to be systematic, regular and supervised to be any good. This applies not only to guns, of course.

Plus knowing other forms of self-defense is never bad. You can always be jumped from behind, be immobilized, attacked with a weapon, etc. Situations that you have to know how to handle, and know how to improvise.
Agreed ... I have been a victim of attempted mugging 4 times (once in Vegas once in Chicago once in Boston and once in NYC)

And a few years of Karate have never served me in bad way. (3 arests one run away … Didn’t disable him in time and was not going to run after someone that still had their fuckin knife)

First, my prayers go out to Rising Sun of Doom and your friend.
Carrying a gun, and using it, is the best defense against rape, according to the Department of Justice.
I doubt the department of justice is telling everyone to be gun totting vigilantes but to quote a real statistic from the department of justice, 7 in ten female rape or sexual assault victims stated the offender was an intimate, other relative, a friend or an acquaintance. This makes it a little hard to shoot someone between the peepers. Another statistic you may want to look at is 1 out of 8 of the women that do manage to brandish a gun end up at the wrong end of it. The gun is not the end all answer to every problem, and it most cases, it just makes matters worse.

First, my prayers go out to Rising Sun of Doom and your friend.

I doubt the department of justice is telling everyone to be gun totting vigilantes but to quote a real statistic from the department of justice, 7 in ten female rape or sexual assault victims stated the offender was an intimate, other relative, a friend or an acquaintance. This makes it a little hard to shoot someone between the peepers. Another statistic you may want to look at is 1 out of 8 of the women that do manage to brandish a gun end up at the wrong end of it. The gun is not the end all answer to every problem, and it most cases, it just makes matters worse.

Not true. The presence of a gun and suddenly being on the wrong end of it is an urban myth.

Not true. The presence of a gun and suddenly being on the wrong end of it is an urban myth.
Department of justice statistics for 2003 buddy. Look'em up.

Many people are under the impression that rapists carry weapons. Most do not. Many people are under the impression that being fit or knowing some self-defense techniques will protect you. In most cases, it does not.

Carrying a gun, and using it, is the best defense against rape, according to the Department of Justice.
For the section in blue: Could you give me a link for this, please? I'm trying to look through the Department of Justice website (http://www.usdoj.gov), but I can't find it.

I would imagine that extensive training of any kind would be good protection. All weapons and fighting styles have their weaknesses; a gun is useless if your attacker can wrest it from your control. The important thing (I would imagine) is not to panic during a fight.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

I support whoever asked for castration against rapists
While this may sound like a good idea it will not solve the problem. Getting rid of the sexual organ does not necessarily get rid of the urge. This would translate in the offender using other objects to "penetrate" his victim.

While this may sound like a good idea it will not solve the problem. Getting rid of the sexual organ does not necessarily get rid of the urge. This would translate in the offender using other objects to "penetrate" his victim.
True, but considering I only support it for repeat rapists and that they also get life in prison w/o parole it wouldn't be that big a problem.

We are an imperfect species living in an imperfect world. This sort of thing happens on an all too frequent basis. The best we can do is try to protect those we love from the terror which still torments the minds of some and causes them to do horrific things like this.

The best you can do for your g/friend now is be there if she needs to talk, and give her all the space you can. It generally takes quite awhile for a woman to recover from rape, even with expert counseling. Rape, by the way, isn't a crime of lust, it's a crime of aggression and domination.

I was talking with my grown sons and sons-in-law the other day about this very thing. We reaffirmed our pledge to do our best to protect all of the people in our extended family, particularly the females from this sort of thing. All I can say is, "God help anyone who harms a member of our family."

While this may sound like a good idea it will not solve the problem. Getting rid of the sexual organ does not necessarily get rid of the urge. This would translate in the offender using other objects to "penetrate" his victim.
Besides which there's also the problem of the wrongfully accused/convicted. Some convicted rapists are later exonerated, proven to be innocent of the crime they were convicted of.

Not true. The presence of a gun and suddenly being on the wrong end of it is an urban myth.
Look at this from an eingineering perspective: A gun is a ranged weapon. It is an accurate and deadly weapon from the muzzle of the gun to a point some 100-1000 odd feet in front of it. It is typically 6 to 12 inches long, depending upon the model. Arm length is typically 2-3 feet. A gun is harmless to anyone who can get around or behind the muzzle; this can be accomplished by anyone who can get within 2-3 feet of whoever is holding the gun. Beyond 6 feet, nobody can reach you. If they close to within 6 feet, then they can reach you.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Thanks...I just hope the b****** is caught...

Hell, I hope you're the one who catches him.

While this may sound like a good idea it will not solve the problem. Getting rid of the sexual organ does not necessarily get rid of the urge. This would translate in the offender using other objects to "penetrate" his victim.
Then hormones, brain surgery or shock therapy to get rid of it. Or conditioning.

Besides which there's also the problem of the wrongfully accused/convicted. Some convicted rapists are later exonerated, proven to be innocent of the crime they were convicted of.




It would make far more sense to simply lock someone up for the rest of their lives if they are convicted of rape. That way if someone is found to be innocent, they can be released intact.

Besides which there's also the problem of the wrongfully accused/convicted. Some convicted rapists are later exonerated, proven to be innocent of the crime they were convicted of.

Of course, it would have to be applied to repeat offenders and where there is good factual evidence (DNA, blood, etc., not memory).

HA well I didn`t even read what the evil thing was...really I dont care....any thought on how people can be 'evil' its simple...inside of people's minds are certain genetics some people have messed up ones are durring their life the genetics got warped...by either what they use to watch....or what they are not alloweed to watch...somtimes when a child is brought up in a to well protected area the child is not allowed to see things that others are...this could cause extreme hatred later in this child's years...so if whatever a person did was evil...dont blaim them...blaim their genetics...lol ok well everything I said made no since but im bidding my time at school right now lol....

Once again the evil that is rape has touched my life... It's happened to several of my friends, now I find out it's touched my life directly...

A few months ago my then girlfriend went very distant and I couldn't understand why. It was a distance relationship and that was a strain, but we were doing fine, saw each other when we could and spent hours on the phone...she suddenly changed and swore nothing was wrong...a couple of months later we broke up.

Move forward 3 1/2 months to last night....she told me the reason why she went so cold and distant...while walking home from work she was jumped and subject to an horrific assault...for 2 hours in sight of her home...I won't go into detail but it was horrific and left her pregnant and with an STD, she terminated the pregnancy.

I feel so broken up inside, if she'd had told me at the time I would have stood by her, but I can understand why she kept it to herself for so long...

I've gotta be strong now and be there for her, but this is something I've never got my head around...How can someone do such an awful thing to someone? Why aren't rapists in the UK locked up perminently? Why did someone so kind, loving and beautiful have something so evil done to her?

I know the answers to those questions may seem obvious, but why in todays society would something like this still happen? And I know it does on a daily basis...

The world is a cold and evil place, the only thing keeping me in it is the islands of light I call the ones I love...
I'm sorry to hear that i know what you mean how my brother raped me when I was little

Then hormones, brain surgery or shock therapy to get rid of it. Or conditioning.

A lot of rape is based on hate, their dick is just a way to dominate and accert their anger/frustration/etc. (Also women can rape other too, what are you going to mulitlate there?) Like someone else said chopping off sex organs isn't going to do it - that and ask someone else pointed out you get the wrong guy sometimes - we lock them up and if for any reason they are ever let out we put a bracklet on their leg and watch them for the rest of their misreable lives.

Of course they'd have to pay for it out of pocket or go back to jail again.

Personally I'm all for prison workers, pay them same as everyone else but make them pay "rent" and for treatments such as shrinks, medical, etc. Though I think only violent people should really be in jail and the rest if anything should be montior though braclets. You can always get money back, but there are some things that can haunt you mentally and physically your entrie life in a physical attack.

HA well I didn`t even read what the evil thing was...really I dont care....any thought on how people can be 'evil' its simple...inside of people's minds are certain genetics some people have messed up ones are durring their life the genetics got warped...by either what they use to watch....or what they are not alloweed to watch...somtimes when a child is brought up in a to well protected area the child is not allowed to see things that others are...this could cause extreme hatred later in this child's years...so if whatever a person did was evil...dont blaim them...blaim their genetics...lol ok well everything I said made no since but im bidding my time at school right now lol....

Claims for genetic determinism are completely ridiculous. If we are merely acting out our genetic programming, how can we have any concept of resposibility. In actuality the argument is self defeating, if we are just acting out our genetic program, rather than blaming their genetics, why not just remove those with bad genes, it's called Eugenics, people like hitler were fairly keen on it.
If someone commits a crime, they are responsible for there actions, and in the case of rape, the blame lies solely with the rapist.

And to a large extent, our police and courts are no help, either.

This might sound harsh and cynic, but the main fault with them not helping lies with the victims. Most never report to the authorities and those who do often too late to secure genetic and other evidence. Since rapists are nearly always serial perpetrators each victim not reporting is responsible for many more to come. The underlying problem is that the first reaction after the shock is not "get that asshole" but most often selfcontempt. Too often rape is viewed as a twosided crime, even by the victims, it isnt.

Claims for genetic determinism are completely ridiculous. If we are merely acting out our genetic programming, how can we have any concept of resposibility. In actuality the argument is self defeating, if we are just acting out our genetic program, rather than blaming their genetics, why not just remove those with bad genes, it's called Eugenics, people like hitler were fairly keen on it.
If someone commits a crime, they are responsible for there actions, and in the case of rape, the blame lies solely with the rapist.


Aaactually:

1) While genetics certainly aren't outright RULES on how we think, there's going to be some influence.

2) There's actually a fish species with two different male versions. One is large and protective, and helps the female tend the nest, in exchange for her cooperation in breeding. The other is small and slender, and just sneaks in, squirts, and dashes off again. It's a rape fish.

3) As such, it may be possible that the tendancy to rape, in some cases, could be genetic. This is part of why I get really twitchy anytime I hear the notion of someone having their rapist's child. What if? *shudders*

4) Programming doesn't remove responsibility, it merely means you stop pretending there's justice, and focus instead on behavior modification. Prison is behavior mod, not "Now there has been justice!" We just like to think it is.

Let's just say that the solution is still at hand.....all you have to do is find the rapist and kill him,plain as that.No 'human rights' fuss,imprisonment or castration,the man is just a useless bag of fluids,he has no reason or rights to exist.

I don't know, you still need to know how to use it and have it handy at the moment, one when you may not be thinking straight. Could help, but could also cause far more damage.

I support whoever asked for castration against rapists. (Yes, I'm a liberal, I'm against death sentence and torture, but that doesn't mean I'm against physical punishment and forced labor for those deserving). Hmm. If I knew someone I know had been raped and I found the rapist… but the problem with castration is that it's irreversible. A guy was (before DNA testing, admittedly) convicted of rape and then the woman had found the wrong man. But very harsh punishments, yes.

They are useless except to provide manual labour as slaves.

The courts shouldn't condone killing IMO, but I think anyone who kills a rapist for revenge should be completely exonerated.

The courts shouldn't condone killing IMO, but I think anyone who kills a rapist for revenge should be completely exonerated. I know that I would not take the law into account; I would simply get my hands on a flamethrower (minature flamers instead of guns… good at close range?) and wreak revenge. This entire topic has made me angry.

Many people are under the impression that rapists carry weapons. Most do not. Many people are under the impression that being fit or knowing some self-defense techniques will protect you. In most cases, it does not.

Carrying a gun, and using it, is the best defense against rape, according to the Department of Justice.

I think the key here is the "using it" part. Most women I know you couldn't convince them to carry a gun, and if you could they would be too afraid to handle it our much less use it. In most cases they are much more willing to use mace or pepper spray. A gun is worse than useless if it is not used.

Where I work they tell women if they are attacked they should yell "Fire" because people will run to see a fire but will ignore calls for "help". Not much good if you are alone in the woods, but in a city environment it might work.

I think the key here is the "using it" part. Most women I know you couldn't convince them to carry a gun, and if you could they would be too afraid to handle it our much less use it. In most cases they are much more willing to use mace or pepper spray. A gun is worse than useless if it is not used.

Where I work they tell women if they are attacked they should yell "Fire" because people will run to see a fire but will ignore calls for "help". Not much good if you are alone in the woods, but in a city environment it might work. Wouldn't work before they were raped, though.

WHAT IS MACE?

Mini-flamethrowers? Good at close quarters. Actually: no. Ignore what I just said.

HA well I didn`t even read what the evil thing was...really I dont care....any thought on how people can be 'evil' its simple...inside of people's minds are certain genetics some people have messed up ones are durring their life the genetics got warped...by either what they use to watch....or what they are not alloweed to watch...somtimes when a child is brought up in a to well protected area the child is not allowed to see things that others are...this could cause extreme hatred later in this child's years...so if whatever a person did was evil...dont blaim them...blaim their genetics...lol ok well everything I said made no since but im bidding my time at school right now lol.... Their genes are a part of them. Free will and responsibility are what separate HUMANS from ANIMALS. If someone cannot control their own lust (and for those who say that rape is not a lust crime: the rape itself is), they have failed in being a human.

What you seem to say is that people can't actually make moral choices. Genes don't actually control one's actions.

I think the key here is the "using it" part. Most women I know you couldn't convince them to carry a gun, and if you could they would be too afraid to handle it our much less use it. In most cases they are much more willing to use mace or pepper spray. A gun is worse than useless if it is not used.

Where I work they tell women if they are attacked they should yell "Fire" because people will run to see a fire but will ignore calls for "help". Not much good if you are alone in the woods, but in a city environment it might work.

My wife teaches battered women how to shoot, and how to get a carry permit. All of the women are hardcore gun owners now. They feel empowered. It's a good thing.

WHAT IS MACE?
A pussy form of Pepper Spray. The problem with both of them is they effect different people to varying degrees and if one concentrates enough most of the effects can be ignored.

I think the key here is the "using it" part. Most women I know you couldn't convince them to carry a gun, and if you could they would be too afraid to handle it our much less use it. In most cases they are much more willing to use mace or pepper spray. A gun is worse than useless if it is not used.
So make available public courses that instill in one the reactions necessary to react to an attack.

A pussy form of Pepper Spray. The problem with both of them is they effect different people to varying degrees and if one concentrates enough most of the effects can be ignored. Flame spray. Much better. The only problem with this whole concept, though, is if a women got scared at somebody innocent and flamed/peppered(peppering's not bad)/shot him.

First of all, I'm sorry for those of you who have been affected by a loved one's assault. I can empathize with the feelings of anger, revenge and powerlessness.

But I'm really quite curious about why suddenly there are so many guys on here offering solutions like carrying guns and, my personal favourite, the mini-flamethrowers. Neither solutions would have helped me when I was assaulted. I was passed out.

What you guys need to do is support your loved ones by understanding that serious changes have occurred or will occur. This is difficult to deal with, and not all guys are capable of handling this. Be open for her to talk to you; be sensitive enough to pick up on their feelings, and most importantly, encourage them to do what *they* need to in order to feel safer. Some women find empowerment in taking SD classes, others in carrying a deterrent, but if a guy is going to try to persuade his loved one to follow a course of action that makes *him* feel safer, then he's defeated the whole purpose of supporting his loved one.

And the two best pieces of advice I can pass on:

Encourage your loved one to report the assault to the authorities, and stand behind them 100% in their decisions.

Many people are under the impression that rapists carry weapons. Most do not. Many people are under the impression that being fit or knowing some self-defense techniques will protect you. In most cases, it does not.

Carrying a gun, and using it, is the best defense against rape, according to the Department of Justice.


Your comments in particular bothers me on so many levels. Where do I even start?

My opinion on guns aside (and irrelevant to this reply), the problem surrounding an assault is that most victims are overcome by a paralyzing shock. The self-defense mechanism that is reported by most victims is that their mind disconnects from their bodies. I'm not talking just about during an assault, I'm talking about before and after. A gun won't be worth its price if a victim hasn't the sense to use it. That's also why physically capable men and women still fall victim. Mace, SD Classes, Weapons training...it's all irrelevant if you are frozen in fear.

And does it not occur to you that most of these victims experience fear that if they fight back, they could end up dead? It's about power relations, not common sense.

And just where on the website does the Department of Justice advocate carrying and discharging a firearm in a situation of impending assault? I cannot being to fathom how many ways that would bring about lawsuits, and as insane as I think the DOJ is sometimes, I just don't see them being that irresponsible.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'd like the guy to *ahem* lose his potential to repeat his act.

While this may sound like a good idea it will not solve the problem. Getting rid of the sexual organ does not necessarily get rid of the urge. This would translate in the offender using other objects to "penetrate" his victim.

Actually, I read somewhere that castrated males may become more docile, among other things. Something about the lack of testosterone. Though that's when you remove the testes, not the penis as it seems you're thinking...

Your comments in particular bothers me on so many levels. Where do I even start?

My opinion on guns aside (and irrelevant to this reply), the problem surrounding an assault is that most victims are overcome by a paralyzing shock. The self-defense mechanism that is reported by most victims is that their mind disconnects from their bodies. I'm not talking just about during an assault, I'm talking about before and after. A gun won't be worth its price if a victim hasn't the sense to use it. That's also why physically capable men and women still fall victim. Mace, SD Classes, Weapons training...it's all irrelevant if you are frozen in fear.

And does it not occur to you that most of these victims experience fear that if they fight back, they could end up dead? It's about power relations, not common sense.

And just where on the website does the Department of Justice advocate carrying and discharging a firearm in a situation of impending assault? I cannot being to fathom how many ways that would bring about lawsuits, and as insane as I think the DOJ is sometimes, I just don't see them being that irresponsible.
Proper weapons training 9 times out of 10 will overcome that freeze reaction. Actually it's probably better than 9/10.

Proper weapons training 9 times out of 10 will overcome that freeze reaction. Actually it's probably better than 9/10.


Okay, fine. Now how do you plan to get every woman out there to seek lengthy and extended firearms training? And tell me how a gun is going to help a woman who has been drugged or incapacitated, such as was my case?

Okay, fine. Now how do you plan to get every woman out there to seek lengthy and extended firearms training? And tell me how a gun is going to help a woman who has been drugged or incapacitated, such as was my case?
It's not a perfect solution, but I don't think there is one. Where were you when you were drugged?

Seriously, I'm sitting here now wondering just how the hell I allowed myself to get drawn into a friggin gun debate in a thread talking about Assaults on Women. Seriously, What the hell happened?

Time to go back to biblical justice when it comes to stuff like this. Absolutly disgusting how American justice deals with these things. In the city I live in, for first time offenders, the maximum sentence is 40 years, but most usually get 7, for other offenders, the maximum is also 40, but few get more than 25-30. This isn't justice for something as horrible as rape.

I really could not care less what the government thinks is the right punishment for these things, people who go through these ordeals know what the real punishment should be.

I have had numerous friends go through this and was forced to be a witness to one of my best virgin friends when i was 14 get raped. My hatred is sown VERY deep.

Once again the evil that is rape has touched my life... It's happened to several of my friends, now I find out it's touched my life directly...

A few months ago my then girlfriend went very distant and I couldn't understand why. It was a distance relationship and that was a strain, but we were doing fine, saw each other when we could and spent hours on the phone...she suddenly changed and swore nothing was wrong...a couple of months later we broke up.

Move forward 3 1/2 months to last night....she told me the reason why she went so cold and distant...while walking home from work she was jumped and subject to an horrific assault...for 2 hours in sight of her home...I won't go into detail but it was horrific and left her pregnant and with an STD, she terminated the pregnancy.

I feel so broken up inside, if she'd had told me at the time I would have stood by her, but I can understand why she kept it to herself for so long...

I've gotta be strong now and be there for her, but this is something I've never got my head around...How can someone do such an awful thing to someone? Why aren't rapists in the UK locked up perminently? Why did someone so kind, loving and beautiful have something so evil done to her?

I know the answers to those questions may seem obvious, but why in todays society would something like this still happen? And I know it does on a daily basis...

The world is a cold and evil place, the only thing keeping me in it is the islands of light I call the ones I love...
hmmm when they get this guy, would you like to borrow any of the following that i own:hatchit, jig saw, rubber malit, sawzall, circular saw, sledge hammer, vice grip plyers, power drill

Once again the evil that is rape has touched my life... It's happened to several of my friends, now I find out it's touched my life directly...

A few months ago my then girlfriend went very distant and I couldn't understand why. It was a distance relationship and that was a strain, but we were doing fine, saw each other when we could and spent hours on the phone...she suddenly changed and swore nothing was wrong...a couple of months later we broke up.

Move forward 3 1/2 months to last night....she told me the reason why she went so cold and distant...while walking home from work she was jumped and subject to an horrific assault...for 2 hours in sight of her home...I won't go into detail but it was horrific and left her pregnant and with an STD, she terminated the pregnancy.

I feel so broken up inside, if she'd had told me at the time I would have stood by her, but I can understand why she kept it to herself for so long...

I've gotta be strong now and be there for her, but this is something I've never got my head around...How can someone do such an awful thing to someone? Why aren't rapists in the UK locked up perminently? Why did someone so kind, loving and beautiful have something so evil done to her?

I know the answers to those questions may seem obvious, but why in todays society would something like this still happen? And I know it does on a daily basis...

The world is a cold and evil place, the only thing keeping me in it is the islands of light I call the ones I love...

Man, you have no idea how affective it is to see a man struggle with this issue. You are dead right about it. How can it still go on? Why aren't there stiffer penalties, how can this happen so frequently?

But what I just wanted to say was that even though I don't know you, I'm proud of the supportive stand you are taking with your ex. Some people would just walk away when the going gets tough.

Seriously, I'm sitting here now wondering just how the hell I allowed myself to get drawn into a friggin gun debate in a thread talking about Assaults on Women. Seriously, What the hell happened?
No one can resist my pursuasive abilities. :cool:

In all seriousness it is probably because in most situations a gun is the most effective form of defense. As for your situation, there are few things that would have helped. In your case all you really can do is try to track them down with the help of the police.

Once again the evil that is rape has touched my life... It's happened to several of my friends, now I find out it's touched my life directly...

A few months ago my then girlfriend went very distant and I couldn't understand why. It was a distance relationship and that was a strain, but we were doing fine, saw each other when we could and spent hours on the phone...she suddenly changed and swore nothing was wrong...a couple of months later we broke up.

Move forward 3 1/2 months to last night....she told me the reason why she went so cold and distant...while walking home from work she was jumped and subject to an horrific assault...for 2 hours in sight of her home...I won't go into detail but it was horrific and left her pregnant and with an STD, she terminated the pregnancy.

I feel so broken up inside, if she'd had told me at the time I would have stood by her, but I can understand why she kept it to herself for so long...

I've gotta be strong now and be there for her, but this is something I've never got my head around...How can someone do such an awful thing to someone? Why aren't rapists in the UK locked up perminently? Why did someone so kind, loving and beautiful have something so evil done to her?

I know the answers to those questions may seem obvious, but why in todays society would something like this still happen? And I know it does on a daily basis...

The world is a cold and evil place, the only thing keeping me in it is the islands of light I call the ones I love...

[grimsarcasm]Because, as we all know, humans are basically good.[/grimsarcascm]
In any case, I don't get how people can say crap like that when stuff like this happens. People are depraved at the core, and there is little that can change that. I'm sorry for you and yours.

No one can resist my pursuasive abilities. :cool:

In all seriousness it is probably because in most situations a gun is the most effective form of defense. As for your situation, there are few things that would have helped. In your case all you really can do is try to track them down with the help of the police.

There are so many things wrong with that line of arguing that I'm not sure where to begin, and really, debating it with you only encourages you to keep talking guns. :p

Don't you worry about l'il ole me. He went to jail immediately after because I'm just too friggin ballsy to let anyone mess with me and get away with it. And Justice is a dish best served with a side of Irony, because I knew that when I sent him to jail for assaulting me, I was sending him off to become some bull's prison bitch. It seems that without my actually wanting it, I got my revenge in an ironic way.

So again, I can't press how important it is to report assaults to the authorities. It's a bitch of a process, but it's worth it.

[QUOTE=Neer do wells] He went to jail immediately after because I'm just too friggin ballsy to let anyone mess with me and get away with it. And Justice is a dish best served with a side of Irony, because I knew that when I sent him to jail for assaulting me, I was sending him off to become some bull's prison bitch. It seems that without my actually wanting it, I got my revenge in an ironic way.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but anal rape and other sex crimes in prison are way overblown. I should know as I was in the state pen for 18 months. Sure some sex was going on, but most of those people were homosexuals anyway. The secret to surviving prision is avoid making eye contact with the wrong people, stick with your own kind, and fight back when you are insulted. Prision made more of a man out of me then my time in the military.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but anal rape and other sex crimes in prison are way overblown. I should know as I was in the state pen for 18 months. Sure some sex was going on, but most of those people were homosexuals anyway. The secret to surviving prision is avoid making eye contact with the wrong people, stick with your own kind, and fight back when you are insulted. Prision made more of a man out of me then my time in the military.

And sorry to burst your bubble because I know for a fact that he became someone's bitch because I know a guy who was in jail at the same time.

Many people are under the impression that rapists carry weapons. Most do not. Many people are under the impression that being fit or knowing some self-defense techniques will protect you. In most cases, it does not.

Carrying a gun, and using it, is the best defense against rape, according to the Department of Justice.The problem is, how do you know you're about to be raped? Do people walk up from 30 feet away screaming: "I'M GOING TO RAPE YOU!" Do you shoot, or even wave a gun at every person who looks the least bit suspicious?

Let's just say that the solution is still at hand.....all you have to do is find the rapist and kill him,plain as that.No 'human rights' fuss,imprisonment or castration,the man is just a useless bag of fluids,he has no reason or rights to exist.
The courts shouldn't condone killing IMO, but I think anyone who kills a rapist for revenge should be completely exonerated.
Vigilantism is illegal in most places for one very good reason:
Vigilantes are not (usually) trained detectives. Vigilantes un a high risk of exacting revenge against the wrong person. This goes back to the problem of false accusations and false convictions.

If you could be certain that you have the correct suspect, then sure, I wouldn't have much sympathy for them. The problem lies in the lack-of-certainty.

Seriously, I'm sitting here now wondering just how the hell I allowed myself to get drawn into a friggin gun debate in a thread talking about Assaults on Women. Seriously, What the hell happened?
It's called "topic drift" or "topic evolution". Through a series of small, immediately-interrelated statements, it's possible to gradually change the subject to something not-at-all related to the original topic.

...

In response to Armed Bookworms and Neer do wells: My stance is on the following points:

Yeah, the biggest problem when you are threatened is the fear reaction. With training, you can overcome that fear reaction. This is a concern in any line of professional work where the professionals lives are on the line: Police, Military, Firefighting, Search-and-Rescue. With enough training, you can overcome that fear reaction and keep your head in a life-threatening situation. It doesn't have to be gun training, it could be martial arts. "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." --Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Former President of the United States of America
If you're taken by surprise and incapacitated, there's nothing you can do but deal with the aftermath. "Neer do wells"s advice on supporting the victim comes into play, here.
Regardless of how it turns out, report it to the authorities immediately. Most preferably: Go to the police as you are; a total mess. The Police can gather forensic evidence from that mess; physical evidence to convict the rapist with. DO NOT CLEAN UP BEFORE GOING TO THE POLICE; THAT DESTROYS OR DAMAGES EVIDENCE. I cannot stress that enough without violating forums rules against spam.


--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

It doesn't have to be gun training, it could be martial arts.
This is true, however there are greater limitations to martial arts then to carrying a gun, especially if you're small. It also generally takes much longer to become competent to the point that you can be assured of properly stopping your attacker. Of course, the funny thing here is that martial arts were basically developed because the common person was denied access to better weaponry.

Wouldn't work before they were raped, though.

WHAT IS MACE?

Mini-flamethrowers? Good at close quarters. Actually: no. Ignore what I just said.
Mace is just an alternative of pepper spray. Similar idea, more powerful, but illegal in some areas.

This is true, however there are greater limitations to martial arts then to carrying a gun, especially if you're small. It also generally takes much longer to become competent to the point that you can be assured of properly stopping your attacker. Of course, the funny thing here is that martial arts were basically developed because the common person was denied access to better weaponry.

The dojo and the street are like apples and oranges. I am an assistant instructor at my local JKD dojo, and I've been in a number of scraps over the years. All of the martial arts training goes out the window when some nut who is hopped up on adrenaline or meth (or whatever) has you up close and personal. Esp since these people tend not to feel much pain, no matter where you strike them. The best thing to do before the fight goes to the ground (and before they are slamming your head into the sidewalk) is try to run for it. Or use a firearm or knife if you have to. It's better to be judged by 12 then be carried by 6.

Give your girlfriend a great hug and tell her she's a brave brave wonderful person to be surviving something as horrid as that. My heart goes out to her.

Mace is just an alternative of pepper spray. Similar idea, more powerful, but illegal in some areas.
I have gone through the complete police training course before going into computers (more specifically anti hacking and network administration and design)

In doing so we had to get hit with 3 non lethal forms of force

Tazer
Mace
Pepper spray

Now while mace is the more “illegal” form of eye irritant I can say from personal experience that the Pepper spray hurt about 100 times worse … that stuff HURT

Mace just has an increased chance of damaging the eye (or so they told us) that is the reason it is not used as much (also does not wash out as readily)

I would prefer to have pepper spray in my hand then mace … (in fact more then the tazer itself) though it is not bad for close range ,the prongs have a tendency to miss at longer ranges

My deepest sympathies to those who have been touched by such a tradegy. I can't even begin to imagine how that would feel. I don't know what I would do if someonever did that to my sister, Mom, or GF. I would pray, for both our sakes, that I never found them. I am so sorry to those who have been through this.

My deepest sympathies to those who have been touched by such a tradegy. I can't even begin to imagine how that would feel. I don't know what I would do if someonever did that to my sister, Mom, or GF. I would pray, for both our sakes, that I never found them. I am so sorry to those who have been through this.
As one that has been affected … and had found the one that did it

Trust me it is the hardest thing you will ever do

As one that has been affected … and had found the one that did it

Trust me it is the hardest thing you will ever do


I don't doubt that in the slightest.

Thanks for your honest reply Cogitation.Yes,vigilantism is indeed illegal but this presumes that you live in a nice and safe environment,the state cares for your needs,just laws are applied on everyone,etc.Unfortunately only a priviledged few can claim to benefit from all these,so if the state (and society in general) seem to care more for the rights or the needs of the victimiser than those of the victim then something must be done,the responsibility lies on the shoulders of the state and the criminal alone.

My sincere sympathies go to any and all victims.They are the only ones who can decide if their aggressor should be dealt with mercifully or harshly,they alone!

I don't doubt that in the slightest.
Yeah … lets just say I never was more thankful for both people around (and as stupid as it may seen) the fact that he pulled a knife on me

I'd just like to thank all that have posted words of support and added constructively to the debate, paticularlly Neer do wells and UpwardThrust...

I guess originally I posted what I did as a kind of release, didn't expect such a vairied debate to start.

Things at the moment are still very raw, knowing now what I do know just makes me feel as if I've lost her all over again, she even realises herself that she should have told me, that she knows I would have handled it and stood by her, but as I said originally I do understand why she kept it to herself.

The thing that really hurts at the moment though is that she told me she still loves me but doesn't love herself...the thought of that tears me apart...

She also knows I've recently met someone who I want to be with but who is having problems of her own, she spent some time last night talking through that with me, supporting me....

I'd do anything to be able to turn the clock back and take her hurt and pain away, but I know that's not possible...I've gottta be stronger than I've ever been so I can be there for her when she needs me...Being a sensitive guy has just as many disadvantages as advantages, maybe more...

I'm starting to ramble now so I'll shut up...thanks again

So make available public courses that instill in one the reactions necessary to react to an attack.

There are many places to go in my area for rape or just attack defense training (Work, Libraries, Rec Centers etc.. all have programs), the problem is it can be difficult to get people to show. Most people take the attitude that 'It will never happen to me".

As for gun training: no such programs that I know of. For one thing law enforcement takes a dim view of people, whether semi-trained or untrained, walking around with loaded guns on the street.

In addition there are many places that guns are not allowed. People who work in public buildings, hospitals, etc are not allowed to have guns or other weapons in their possesion. So going to and from work (if you rely only on weapons) is just not practical. It may be permissable to carry pepper spray into some of these places and there is no law that says you can't fight an attacker. It seems to me that the best defense against attack is to:

1. Be aware of your surroundings. Are there suspicious looking people lurking? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck.

2. Make eye contact. People who look away or down at the ground as they walk are projecting the image of being weak or scared. This is the type of person attackers look for. Someone that is an easy "mark".

3. Walk with a friend when possible. An attacker wants you alone. It increases you advantage if you walk with one or more friends or coworkers.

4. Park in well lighted busy areas when possible. Avoid little used parking garages.

5. If something doesn't "feel" right get to a public area (busy street, convienience store, police station...) as quickly as possible. Better to look paranoid than to be a victim.

6. Take the elevator rather than the stairs. If someone gets on the elevator you are not comfortable with get off and take the next one.

7. Take a basic attack defence training class. If it gives you confidence, you will project confidence. That in itself will lessen your chance of being attacked.

If you reduce the opportunities for being attacked you may not have to experience an attack in the first place. Isn't that a better outcome than defending yourself and possibly killing?

While I agree that reducing your chances of eing attacked is best, it can feel like your a victim before anything has happened.

My wife was attacked twice when younger and lived with an abusive partner (her near killed her) and the hardest thing is to rebuild her confidence.
The first sexual abuse was over 20 years ago now and it still has a visable (to me anyway) effect.
As to the physical abuse, she keeps losing it with me (deliberatly I can tell) to get me to physically retaliate (which I wont).

She now works for the Met. police, and the Sgt.s she works with keep telling her she can do stuff.

So after 6 years of marriage and 20 years since the first event, She is still recovering.

It's hard for me, but how bad must it be for her??

just be there, no matter what, and tell them how great they are and hopefully they can pull themselves through.

As for the perps. I wish ill things on them. But if I found them I would do nothing, she needs me with her not in jail.

I'd just like to thank all that have posted words of support and added constructively to the debate, paticularlly Neer do wells and UpwardThrust...

I guess originally I posted what I did as a kind of release, didn't expect such a vairied debate to start.

Things at the moment are still very raw, knowing now what I do know just makes me feel as if I've lost her all over again, she even realises herself that she should have told me, that she knows I would have handled it and stood by her, but as I said originally I do understand why she kept it to herself.

The thing that really hurts at the moment though is that she told me she still loves me but doesn't love herself...the thought of that tears me apart...

She also knows I've recently met someone who I want to be with but who is having problems of her own, she spent some time last night talking through that with me, supporting me....

I'd do anything to be able to turn the clock back and take her hurt and pain away, but I know that's not possible...I've gottta be stronger than I've ever been so I can be there for her when she needs me...Being a sensitive guy has just as many disadvantages as advantages, maybe more...

I'm starting to ramble now so I'll shut up...thanks again

Keep being there for her man

And BE sure to let her know that you can come walk with her any time … she is going to have trouble trusting men. She wont be able to know who to trust , if you can be one of the few for her be there. That is the biggest thing.

But helping her by “escorting” her specially at night when risk and fears are highest is one of the biggest helps you can be.

I spent months waking up driving in to walk my ex out to her vehicle or picking her up every night she worked. But it was one of the overlooked little details she didn’t think about till I offered and it turned out to be a bigger help then she could have imagined

And be prepared for the “man hate” it happens to some (not all) eventually fear and loathing turn into a general form of hate … its hard to deal with specially when you were not the perpetrator but … something you cant change and have to live with if you value her.

There are many places to go in my area for rape or just attack defense training (Work, Libraries, Rec Centers etc.. all have programs), the problem is it can be difficult to get people to show. Most people take the attitude that 'It will never happen to me".

As for gun training: no such programs that I know of. For one thing law enforcement takes a dim view of people, whether semi-trained or untrained, walking around with loaded guns on the street.

In addition there are many places that guns are not allowed. People who work in public buildings, hospitals, etc are not allowed to have guns or other weapons in their possesion. So going to and from work (if you rely only on weapons) is just not practical. It may be permissable to carry pepper spray into some of these places and there is no law that says you can't fight an attacker.

Isn't that a better outcome than defending yourself and possibly killing?
Actually it is generally only the higher ups in law enforcement that think civvies carrying guns would be a bad thing. I know a couple of cops, two of them in the chicago police departmen and all say that if the entire city of chicago was armed and could carry there would be a lot less problems. As for places where guns are not allowed, that's just stupid. Of course someone will now whine about things like school shootings. However if the teachers were allowed guns if a school shooting did occur it would be over a hell of a lot faster.

No, being as if you either flash the gun, fire at, or wound your attacker with a gun he is actually less likely to commit a crime again and if you kill him he can't commit a crime again.

Actually it is generally only the higher ups in law enforcement that think civvies carrying guns would be a bad thing. I know a couple of cops, two of them in the chicago police departmen and all say that if the entire city of chicago was armed and could carry there would be a lot less problems.

A couple of cops does not make a concensus. I doubt that is true because that would mean the street cops would continuously be dealing with drunks with guns and people mistakenly shooting someone they thought was dangerous. It would vastly increase the danger that law enforcement personel face every day. If they did say that it was in jest or they just didn't think it through.

As for places where guns are not allowed, that's just stupid. Of course someone will now whine about things like school shootings. However if the teachers were allowed guns if a school shooting did occur it would be over a hell of a lot faster.

There are good reasons for banning guns in public places. First and foremost to keep nut cases from killing large groups of people gathered in one place. In Baltimore a few years ago some nut went into a politicians office and shot him and everyone else he could because he just didn't like him. So they put in metal detectors.

Plus teachers with guns may decide to "off" some smart alleck kid who plucked their last nerve.

No, being as if you either flash the gun, fire at, or wound your attacker with a gun he is actually less likely to commit a crime again and if you kill him he can't commit a crime again.

And a lot of people would get shot who simply were going in the same direction and got too close for comfort. The last thing we need is to bring back the wild west.

inside of people's minds are certain genetics some people have messed up ones are durring their life the genetics got warped


ok: someone's genetic makeup cannot be 'warped' during their life other than by radiation, genetic modification or another type of mutation. being restricted to watching certain things or growing up in a sheltered home has nothing at ALL to do with genetics; we call that psychology. say my father was a criminal and was in prison because of it. just because he did something illegal doesnt mean that his actions are passed on to me and that i'm gonna go out and stab someone in the face with a splintered baseball bat. this whole arguement goes into genes for rage and genes for violence, and i doubt many of us have vast knowledge of the inheritance patterns of said genes, if those types of genes even exist in the human genome.