NationStates Jolt Archive

In light of the recent Macy's "scandal", what is everyone's opinion on this issue?
I personally prefer Happy Holidays, because while I myself am Christianish, I also believe that this is America, and all people should be tolerant of each other.

depending of course on who it is, can I just carry around a sprig of mistletoe and kiss those i wish to give holiday greetings too?
:fluffle:

lol sure, why not?

Who cares? I'm just in it for the free booze and parties.

*gets out mistletoe and hold it overhead*

umm, tigger?

lol I'm flattered, but married :)

I usually say Merry Christmas. I'm a christian. But I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday. Nor as a christian holiday. Christmas, in my eye is not about Christ's birth(especially since he was most likely NOT born on that day). Christmas is about the ideal of Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men. It's a day of peace, generosity and a hope that it will stretch throughough the upcoming year. That's what Christmas REALLY is. And I resent many christians' attempts to claim it as a Christian Religious Holiday just as much as I resent other Religion's attempts to disregard it because of those christians.

Christmas is NOT about Christ's Birth. Christmas is about an ideal. Nothing more.

lol I'm flattered, but married :)
aww! its only seasonal! but thats ok, i understand!

Lunatic Goofballs, very interesting point :) I know someone who celebrates Christmas as his New Year. That's when he makes his resolutions and takes a little time to reflect on his life and the direction, or misdirection, it is going.

ok LM, KOTC :)

I feel sated now! And a happy new year to you too!! Hoo Hoo Hooooo!!!! :D

Dont feel bad,I'm in Langley Township and will just stick my cheek over the border.

hmm, this issue isn't quite as inflammatory on this site as it was at work....Must be because I live deep in the heart of the evil Republican Empire.

Christmas is about Christ's birth. Whether or not it's the actual day on which he was born is not the question, since it is the day we choose to take the time out to acknowledge it. The fact that it has been turned into a commercial holiday, like the way the rest of Christianity seems to be going, with no respect or knowledge about what it really means and no relevance in our society, really disturbs me. It seems that no one is allowed to say anything against other religions on the basis of discrimination but when it comes to Christianity, it's free game since it's the 'majority' religion (although most christians don't seem to give a damn about their faith).

If it is only the celebration of the results of his birth, i.e. peace and good will towards all men, then we really don't need to make a holiday (holy-day) out of it as it shouldn't take a special day for us to exhibit those traits. From the logic here, one could assume that Easter is really the celebration of chocolate and not Christ's death and resurrection.

Dont feel bad,I'm in Langley Township and will just stick my cheek over the border.
ive never seen so many Canucks from the van region in here at once!

how goes it fellow canuck?

I say merry xmas, im an Atheist so Christmas isnt religious for me I tend to think of it like that maniac Goofy.

Its just traditional to say merry xmas I guess.

ttfn

how goes it fellow canuck?

Good and yourself?

Good and yourself?
good enough

almost bedtime tho

To quote a comedian

"I say merry christmas because thats what it is!" you dont see people walking abour in febuary "Happy holidays"
No, they go up to people and say "happy vallentines day"

"ohhhhhhh.... Do you believe in love?"

:rolleyes: :D

what do y'all think the reaction would be if Macy's hadn't put up Happy Holidays, but Happy Chanukah? Or Happy Kwanzaa? Do you think the reaction would have been stronger?

good enough

almost bedtime tho


I agree i'm going real soon, Good night to u

Christmas is a pagan thing, it has just been given a christian meaning so people could practice their beliefs and traditions without being burnt at the stake.
Its not just Christian households that celebrate Christmas... in fact, its only really people who have a specific religion that isn't Christianity who dont. Even still, this time of year is celebratory. Its about to be the new year. In the northern hemisphere, it becomes horribly cold and everyone just wants to sit around in front of a fire, while in the southern hemisphere its so terribly hot all you want to do is fall over and die. Its a time of not working, a time of renewal, etc etc etc.
I dont mind "Merry Christmas" in moderation... but I think the majority of the banners should say Seasons Greetings or such, just because Merry Christmas is a bit in your face for people who dont celebrate it.

Having said that, I hate Christmas carols and stories with a passion. Most of them are either Christian propoganda or brainwashing stuff for making children think that if they dont behave Santa will slaughter you and feed you to his reindeer.

i must completely agree with 'lunatic goofballs'. it is not a religious holiday as it stems from pagan festivals, but it is the season of good will, peace and a time for closeness between people. it is a rare opportunity for society to show love and compassion for one another! :-)

Christmas is about Christ's birth. Whether or not it's the actual day on which he was born is not the question, since it is the day we choose to take the time out to acknowledge it. The fact that it has been turned into a commercial holiday, like the way the rest of Christianity seems to be going, with no respect or knowledge about what it really means and no relevance in our society, really disturbs me. It seems that no one is allowed to say anything against other religions on the basis of discrimination but when it comes to Christianity, it's free game since it's the 'majority' religion (although most christians don't seem to give a damn about their faith).

If it is only the celebration of the results of his birth, i.e. peace and good will towards all men, then we really don't need to make a holiday (holy-day) out of it as it shouldn't take a special day for us to exhibit those traits. From the logic here, one could assume that Easter is really the celebration of chocolate and not Christ's death and resurrection.

Are you inferring that chocolate doesn't deserve a holiday? *eyes narrow*

I don't see why it needs it's own special day. I celebrate chocolate all the time. I have an shrine to it in my livingroom, complete with fountains of cocao and little orange caretakers that sing me rhymes and recite horribly obnoxious poetry.

I just call it Gifty WubWub Day. It's more optomistic then National Consumerist Day.

Christmas is about Christ's birth. Whether or not it's the actual day on which he was born is not the question, since it is the day we choose to take the time out to acknowledge it. The fact that it has been turned into a commercial holiday, like the way the rest of Christianity seems to be going, with no respect or knowledge about what it really means and no relevance in our society, really disturbs me. It seems that no one is allowed to say anything against other religions on the basis of discrimination but when it comes to Christianity, it's free game since it's the 'majority' religion (although most christians don't seem to give a damn about their faith).

If it is only the celebration of the results of his birth, i.e. peace and good will towards all men, then we really don't need to make a holiday (holy-day) out of it as it shouldn't take a special day for us to exhibit those traits. From the logic here, one could assume that Easter is really the celebration of chocolate and not Christ's death and resurrection.

How then, pray, do you deal with the knowledge that most 'Christmas' traditions were lifted from pagan festivals to encourage pagans to embrace Christianity (also a logical reason for the date, which conincides with an old pagan holiday)? Maybe it's to do with Christ for you, but you have to realise that the roots of the holiday have nothing to do with Christianity, and everything to do with enticing pagans to convert.

What 'Christmas' *really* means is that the Christians back in the day would go to any length (even perverting Christ's name to rename a pagan festival) to get converts. Not something I'd be cheering about... or, if I wanted to, I'd at least convert to paganism first.

On the poll, I chose 'Happy Holidays' and 'Bah Humbug'. It depends on who you're talking to.

I usually say Merry Christmas. I'm a christian. But I don't see Christmas as a religious holiday. Nor as a christian holiday. Christmas, in my eye is not about Christ's birth(especially since he was most likely NOT born on that day). Christmas is about the ideal of Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men. It's a day of peace, generosity and a hope that it will stretch throughough the upcoming year. That's what Christmas REALLY is. And I resent many christians' attempts to claim it as a Christian Religious Holiday just as much as I resent other Religion's attempts to disregard it because of those christians.

Christmas is NOT about Christ's Birth. Christmas is about an ideal. Nothing more.
Ahem...

It is. Wasn't Jesus the guy who preached Peace and Good Will, then people made a religion about it?

They shouldn't be forced to say anything at all. They should be allowed to choose what they say because of the FIRST AMENDMENT to the Constitution (at least in the US).

If everyone's going to get all PC and sensetive because their particular holiday wasn't mentioned in a Christian dominated society....it's being a bit unrealistic.

They shouldn't be forced to say anything at all. They should be allowed to choose what they say because of the FIRST AMENDMENT to the Constitution (at least in the US).

If everyone's going to get all PC and sensetive because their particular holiday wasn't mentioned in a Christian dominated society....it's being a bit unrealistic.

Right now it is the majority religion that is getting all bent out of shape because some places, like Macy's, choose to put up signs like Season's Greetings -which includes Christmas as well as the other holidays- instead of being Christmas specific.

The most Christian way of expressing the greeting, which in this case is the mediocre "Merry Christmas." Using "Happy Holidays" etc., imply that devils' holidays are worthy of any respect and to be tolerated.

Happy Holidays makes so much more practical sense to me, and not because I'm an atheist.

Really, you don't typically know what religious persuasion people tend towards just by looking at them (the brutally-obvious signs aside), and it's bloody mouthful trying to get Happy x-mas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, etc. into a greeting/goodbye. Plus, let's not forget the New Year Festivities in there.

It's a lovely timesaver.

If it is only the celebration of the results of his birth, i.e. peace and good will towards all men, then we really don't need to make a holiday (holy-day) out of it as it shouldn't take a special day for us to exhibit those traits. From the logic here, one could assume that Easter is really the celebration of chocolate and not Christ's death and resurrection.

I'll be damned! An X-tian Post-Modernist! now there's a fun oxymoron!

This isnt about tolerance at all, this is about tradition, Merry Christmas is perfectly fine, if we start saying happy holidays we one day may start saying "Happy Holidays! But only if you're celebrating a holiday during this season that is, I am tolerant of those who celebrate a holiday on... Sir! Wait! Come back! Im trying to... Oh screw it!"

Later on the Bus; "Happy Holidays! But only if you're celebrating a holiday during this season that is, I am tolerant of those who celebrate a holiday on... Ma'am! Wait! Come back! Im trying to... Oh screw it!"

But the whole point is, what if you don't celebrate Christmas because you are a Buddhist, Jew, Hindu, or other religion? That's why Macy's went with Happy Holidays, so as not to alienate non Christian consumers. what do y'all think the reaction would be if Macy's hadn't put up Happy Holidays, but Happy Chanukah? Or Happy Kwanzaa? Do you think the reaction would have been stronger?

In light of the recent Macy's "scandal", what is everyone's opinion on this issue?
I personally prefer Happy Holidays, because while I myself am Christianish, I also believe that this is America, and all people should be tolerant of each other.

Indeed, although thinking about it, it boils down to this for me: I want the goodwill I wish someone this time of year to be pure and universal.

This isnt about tolerance at all, this is about tradition, Merry Christmas is perfectly fine, if we start saying happy holidays we one day may start saying "Happy Holidays! But only if you're celebrating a holiday during this season that is, I am tolerant of those who celebrate a holiday on... Sir! Wait! Come back! Im trying to... Oh screw it!"

Later on the Bus; "Happy Holidays! But only if you're celebrating a holiday during this season that is, I am tolerant of those who celebrate a holiday on... Ma'am! Wait! Come back! Im trying to... Oh screw it!"

Or, you know, you could just stick with "Happy Holidays."

Ahem...

It is. Wasn't Jesus the guy who preached Peace and Good Will, then people made a religion about it?

Jesus's birth story is an excellent christmas story for exactly that reason. Which is probably why so many christian churches wanted a christian holiday so close to Yule(Dec. 21) and the New Year(On Julian Calendars). Both of which mean nearly the same thing. Besides, Jesus' actual(likely) birthdate is way too close to Easter.

we wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year

At the risk of sounding politically incorrect, I must say to hell with those that cannot stand to hear "Merry Christmas." Just because somebody has a problem with my religious choices makes them intollerant, not me.

If you don't believe in Jesus that's fine. That's your right. However, to the majority of the people that live in this country, the whole idea behind Christmas is to celebrate the idea that a man taught us: love your fellow man (and woman :-D).

To every sane religion out there, this is a recurring theme. Whether you be Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Naturalist, or Buddhist, the message remains the same. We need to learn to live together.

Those that get offended because I and people like me choose to celebrate this holiday should really get a life. When wished a Merry Christmas, don't think about the son of God, but rather the message that all of us should love thy neighbor and be happy at least once every year. That is what we christians think of when we think of the birth of Jesus.

His significance and authenticity can be debated, but the fact remains that the message the faith has instilled in it is generally a universal truth (oxymoron, but anyways...)

Right now it is the majority religion that is getting all bent out of shape because some places, like Macy's, choose to put up signs like Season's Greetings -which includes Christmas as well as the other holidays- instead of being Christmas specific.

And some of us (who have no denomination at all) are getting bent out of shape because the ACLU is making firemen remove their Christmas decorations from firehouses, and stopping kids from singing Christmas carols in school--and not stopping other religion-based songs.

The firefighters paid for the decorations themselves. The ones getting bent out of shape for independent decisions to use happy holidays are being silly, I'll agree with you there, but the complete removal of signs of a tradition by force sounds a great deal like first amendment infringement to me.

But the whole point is, what if you don't celebrate Christmas because you are a Buddhist, Jew, Hindu, or other religion? That's why Macy's went with Happy Holidays, so as not to alienate non Christian consumers. what do y'all think the reaction would be if Macy's hadn't put up Happy Holidays, but Happy Chanukah? Or Happy Kwanzaa? Do you think the reaction would have been stronger?

Again, it's still their choice. The market works in weird ways sometimes.

I say Merry Christmas because it's the ONLY holiday, other than New Year's, I celebrate. It's not my responsibility to verify everyone else's religious beliefs. Does Merry Christmas really strike an ill-will chord to those that don't celebrate? If someone wished me a Happy Kwanzaa, or Happy Chanukah, I would assume they were wishing me rather good tidings.

Or, you know, you could just stick with "Happy Holidays."

Or, we could stop trying to tell each other what to say, and realize we're all just trying to say, "Have a good season, and enjoy your family and what you have," regardless of the actual words.

Christmas is about Christ's birth. Whether or not it's the actual day on which he was born is not the question, since it is the day we choose to take the time out to acknowledge it. The fact that it has been turned into a commercial holiday, like the way the rest of Christianity seems to be going, with no respect or knowledge about what it really means and no relevance in our society, really disturbs me. It seems that no one is allowed to say anything against other religions on the basis of discrimination but when it comes to Christianity, it's free game since it's the 'majority' religion (although most christians don't seem to give a damn about their faith).

If it is only the celebration of the results of his birth, i.e. peace and good will towards all men, then we really don't need to make a holiday (holy-day) out of it as it shouldn't take a special day for us to exhibit those traits. From the logic here, one could assume that Easter is really the celebration of chocolate and not Christ's death and resurrection.

Nonsense. Christmas and Easter are about usurping the ancient celebrations of the solstace and the equinox. The very term 'Easter' is not Christian but is "originally a Saxon word (Eostre), denoting a goddess of the Saxons, in honour of whom sacrifices were offered about the time of the Passover." (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=easter) Prior to that it was a fertility festival celebrated long before Mary had her own little seed planted.

While the derivation of the word holiday may be 'holy day' it has come to mean "a day free from work that one may spend at leisure, especially a day on which custom or the law dictates a halting of general business activity to commemorate or celebrate a particular event." (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=holiday) To maintain that all holidays are holy days raises some interesting conflicts. Should a vacationing Brit who goes whoring and drugging in Amsterdam consider the time spent a religious experience?

Nonsense. Christmas and Easter are about usurping the ancient celebrations of the solstace and the equinox. The very term 'Easter' is not Christian but is "originally a Saxon word (Eostre), denoting a goddess of the Saxons, in honour of whom sacrifices were offered about the time of the Passover." (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=easter) Prior to that it was a fertility festival celebrated long before Mary had her own little seed planted.

While the derivation of the word holiday may be 'holy day' it has come to mean "a day free from work that one may spend at leisure, especially a day on which custom or the law dictates a halting of general business activity to commemorate or celebrate a particular event." (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=holiday) To maintain that all holidays are holy days raises some interesting conflicts. Should a vacationing Brit who goes whoring and drugging in Amsterdam consider the time spent a religious experience?

SHL is right about the background of the holidays. Which is why there isn't much in the way of religion in those two particular days for me.

It's also why I don't fight the fact that Christmas is a government sanctioned holiday--because it's not actually a religious one.

Why don't we rename Christmas "Save the Retail industry day" instead?
It's been converted into a commercial instead of a religious holiday.

"Happy Holidays" sounds really stupid as it sounds a some quaint local greeting.

Well, since it's Christmas, I tend to say "Merry Christmas" ... even though I am not a Christian. Hanukkah has already come and gone, so saying "Happy Hanukkah!" would be like saying "Happy Easter!" on December 25th.

"Seasons Greetings" is nice because we are about to enter a new Season ... Winter (northern hemisphere). It's always nice to say hello to the new season, which should make the Pagans happy, but then, Yule has already come and gone by December 25th. Ramadan has already come and gone, so it's not really included either.

Personally, I don't know what the big deal is. Let people say what they like. Happy Holidays, Seasons Greetings, fine and dandy.

Meh ...

People just like any excuse to bitch.

But the whole point is, what if you don't celebrate Christmas because you are a Buddhist, Jew, Hindu, or other religion? That's why Macy's went with Happy Holidays, so as not to alienate non Christian consumers. what do y'all think the reaction would be if Macy's hadn't put up Happy Holidays, but Happy Chanukah? Or Happy Kwanzaa? Do you think the reaction would have been stronger? Do non-Christians really give a toss about it? I know that I didn't, a few years ago. I think it really depends on what the manager wants. I live in Britain, where people tend to hate political correctness.

Merry Christmas. Christmas is no more or less offensive than any other religion's holiday. People need to get over themselves and grow the hell up.

As for Liskeinland, I wished I lived somewhere where people hated political correctness...oh yeah...I do. Most Americans can't stand it...but a bastard few live by it and ruin things like Christmas for the rest of us.