NationStates Jolt Archive

No one would bite at this on the humor forum. Although, it does appear they permit bigoted jokes. Just as long as they aren't racist.

Anyway, I was bored in the hotel room the other night and came up with several reasons why I couldn't go metric...

Why we don't need metric
I find just saying MKS pretty funny, but I'm stuck in a hotel room and the choices for entertainment are few and far between. No bar, bad TV, and I finished my book on the plane. So that leaves creative writing...

I will never succumb to the metric system because...

I can think abstractly. I can count on two imaginary fingers, so I can use base 12.

I can make a part and hold a half inch tolerance instead of letting it slide to .512 inches and having to call it 13 mm.

I know that 40 rods to the hogshead is pretty poor mileage, if you are talking about cars and gas. It's pretty good mileage if you are talking about bars and beer. And if you're riding a Harley, you are in trouble.

Speaking of beer, doesn't a pint sound a whole lot better that a few ml, or kl, or mg, or whatever? How do you order beer in metric, anyway?

This would kill McDonalds. A quarter-pounder would be a ... a ... a, well no one knows what it would become. That's the problem.

Most metric measurements just sound too French.

When you are watching a sport like weight lifting, how do you know if the 75 kg event you are watching is the amount of weight they lift, how much the lifters weigh, or what the temperature of the arena is?

Okay, I've had my fun. Thanks.

Speaking of beer, doesn't a pint sound a whole lot better that a few ml, or kl, or mg, or whatever? How do you order beer in metric, anyway?


"Una cerveza, por favor"


Okay, I've had my fun. Thanks.

Only wussy excuses :)

I suppose you think measuring weight in "stone" is a good idea.

This would kill McDonalds. A quarter-pounder would be a ... a ... a, well no one knows what it would become. That's the problem.


A Royale.

I draw plans all day every day and I am eternally grateful I get to use metric, it would take forever otherwise!

yeah, Imperial has some cool terms that would be lost to the convenience of the metric system (dont get me wrong, I love metric) where would we be without slugs?

A Royale.

*in the voice of the immortal Samuel L J*

"Royale with cheese... shiiiiit" :p

I can think abstractly. I can count on two imaginary fingers, so I can use base 12.
you have only 8 fingers, the other 2 are thumbs. you can count octal.


I can make a part and hold a half inch tolerance instead of letting it slide to .512 inches and having to call it 13 mm.
0.0013 meters sounds better :)


I know that 40 rods to the hogshead is pretty poor mileage, if you are talking about cars and gas. It's pretty good mileage if you are talking about bars and beer. And if you're riding a Harley, you are in trouble.
yes? :confused:


Speaking of beer, doesn't a pint sound a whole lot better that a few ml, or kl, or mg, or whatever? How do you order beer in metric, anyway?
een bier, graag.


This would kill McDonalds. A quarter-pounder would be a ... a ... a, well no one knows what it would become. That's the problem.
in holland we call them just quarter pounders.

Most metric measurements just sound too French.[quote]freedom fries :D

[quote]When you are watching a sport like weight lifting, how do you know if the 75 kg event you are watching is the amount of weight they lift, how much the lifters weigh, or what the temperature of the arena is?no-one in europe watches that :p

Okay, I've had my fun. Thanks.
you're welcome :D

the metric system is obsolete

in a way

we NEEDED a simplified system back when the only way to calculate was with pencil, paper and brain

now that we have calculators and computers what difference does it it make if its 16 oz in a lb or 100 g in a kg? the machine does the calculating.

only the standardization of machine parts puts metrics into consideration and then only because too much of the world uses it.

we luddites who still use other systems are at no particular disadvantage when we continue to use them in our own countries and homes.

aaaa-hahahahhahahahhahahaaaa!!!!

Oh myrm, thanks for the laugh! *boohoo metric sux* Stubbron whiney people are so funny.

100 g in a kg
bwhahahahahahhahaaaa :D

the metric system is obsolete

in a way

we NEEDED a simplified system back when the only way to calculate was with pencil, paper and brain

now that we have calculators and computers what difference does it it make if its 16 oz in a lb or 100 g in a kg? the machine does the calculating.

only the standardization of machine parts puts metrics into consideration and then only because too much of the world uses it.

we luddites who still use other systems are at no particular disadvantage when we continue to use them in our own countries and homes.

Do you live in the States? They are the last true hold-out, and its not that in and of itself thats a bad thing. But because they have they influence they have on industry, they, in a sense, prevent other countries who have already partially made the switch from going all the way (ie: Canada) because it would make trading/industry difficult. The sooner they make that switch, the better off we all are (I mean, any one can see the obvious advantages of switching over). There are of course downfalls, but the benefits in the long run far outweigh them.

:D

now that we have calculators and computers what difference does it it make if its 16 oz in a lb or 100 g in a kg? the machine does the calculating.


Hmmmm you got a point... but are you sure your not just saying that because you suck at basic math?

*coughs1000g=1kgcoughs*

In england though, where fucked. Most of the road signs are in Miles yetwe have to mesure distences in Km. People still say there 5 foot 9 or whatever, and even the younger generation do that. However no one uses yar5ds or feet anymore. Just meters. It's mad!

In england though, where fucked. Most of the road signs are in Miles yetwe have to mesure distences in Km. People still say there 5 foot 9 or whatever, and even the younger generation do that. However no one uses yar5ds or feet anymore. Just meters. It's mad!
The wont change it cos they dobn't want to pay for all those signs I bet. I wish they would. I have no idea how far stuff is.

In england though, where fucked. Most of the road signs are in Miles yetwe have to mesure distences in Km. People still say there 5 foot 9 or whatever, and even the younger generation do that. However no one uses yar5ds or feet anymore. Just meters. It's mad!

see my post, lets replace the Imperial system outright, the only reason people still use Imperial when they do is based on a comfort factor, Im sure the Imperial system met resistance when faced with old users of cubits (what the heck is a cubit anyway?) Eventually, the dominant will prevail, thats why Metric is becoming more and more common.

:D

The wont change it cos they dobn't want to pay for all those signs I bet. I wish they would. I have no idea how far stuff is.
See my minds now half and half, I can slip into both systems easyly. I wish they'd make there mind up.

the metric system is obsolete

in a way

we NEEDED a simplified system back when the only way to calculate was with pencil, paper and brain

now that we have calculators and computers what difference does it it make if its 16 oz in a lb or 100 g in a kg? the machine does the calculating.

only the standardization of machine parts puts metrics into consideration and then only because too much of the world uses it.

we luddites who still use other systems are at no particular disadvantage when we continue to use them in our own countries and homes.

So let me geuss, you are one of those people that can't function without a calculator, what happens during a test when you batteries go dead, or if you forget it? I always try to figure somthing on paper first, just so I can know how to do it just in case.

see my post, lets replace the Imperial system outright, the only reason people still use Imperial when they do is based on a comfort factor, Im sure the Imperial system met resistance when faced with old users of cubits (what the heck is a cubit anyway?) Eventually, the dominant will prevail, thats why Metric is becoming more and more common.

:D
I would do that, at the moment half-and-half is just confusing. i would prefer to change to metric though. More logical and easyer to do in your head.

So let me geuss, you are one of those people that can't function without a calculator, what happens during a test when you batteries go dead, or if you forget it? I always try to figure somthing on paper first, just so I can know how to do it just in case.
use a solar powered one. :D

I find metric to be a very simple system to use, but, on the same hand, I can go back and forth between systems without any hassle at all. There is something nice about having a measurement system that corresponds to the commonly accepted number system, however. The British system (which is what the US uses) doesn't have any real sense of base congruency at all...

use a solar powered one. :D

What if you forget it? In my math class (first off our calcs arn't solar :( ) I forgot mine, we arn't alowed to borrow. So I had to do the test on paper, I did all but two questions. And no it wasn't simple algebra, it was trig.

With this I think I have 1.146 kiloposts.

How many ounces in a stone? How does a rod convert to miles?

I find metric to be a very simple system to use, but, on the same hand, I can go back and forth between systems without any hassle at all. There is something nice about having a measurement system that corresponds to the commonly accepted number system, however. The British system (which is what the US uses) doesn't have any real sense of base congruency at all...
Aye

Riegab, I actually find trigonomitry simple, and Algibra as well. It's multiplying and deviding I find hard.

now that we have calculators and computers what difference does it it make if its 16 oz in a lb or 100 g in a kg? the machine does the calculating.

...

we luddites who still use other systems are at no particular disadvantage when we continue to use them in our own countries and homes.
How can you be a luddite and use a calculator?

I say to hell with both of them! It's about time we move to a hexadecimal system! We can still use ounces and pounds, since there are 16 ounces in a pound, but we need a unit that's 1/16 (or 1/256) of an ounce and so on. Imperial volume units might work too since there's 16 cups in a gallon, but no more 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards per mile. That's just stupid.

How can you be a luddite and use a calculator?
Well spotted!

With this I think I have 1.146 kiloposts.

How many ounces in a stone? How does a rod convert to miles?
A 'stone' is about 14 lbs. so 224 oz.

I suppose you think measuring weight in "stone" is a good idea.

As long as it means weight or force and not mass, sure. I kind of like "slugs" for mass, too.

But how come everyone in metric countries weighs themselves in kilograms? That's mass and everyone knows it. Use Newtons!

Pounds have that wonderful ambiguous quality of being either mass or force, depending on the context.

I draw plans all day every day and I am eternally grateful I get to use metric, it would take forever otherwise!

I've found that Autocad is much smarter than I am. But Autocad doesn't seem to care much about the units system, cold and heartless beast that it is.

aaaa-hahahahhahahahhahahaaaa!!!!

Oh myrm, thanks for the laugh! *boohoo metric sux* Stubbron whiney people are so funny.

Glad to help. I really don't have any problems with base 10, I just hate buy new tools.

How does a rod convert to miles?

It's something like 4 rods to the chain, so that means ... Oh wait Nautical or Statue mile?

As many have probably already stated, the metric system is simply much more conveinient in all senses.

The only reason the imperial system is still being used is because the States are stubborn and out of touch with the rest of the world.

In Canada, we are taught both the imperial and metric systems at school... Since I've been educated in both systems I can say with conviction that the imperial system sucks ass compared to the metric system. Why bother with complicated numbers that make no sense when converted? It's only a matter of time... just like the legalization of marijuana and gay marriage the Americans will eventually be assimilated.

But how come everyone in metric countries weighs themselves in kilograms? That's mass and everyone knows it. Use Newtons!Because weight varies by area, and scales are calibrated to show the corresponding mass. The fact that we say "I weigh ##kg" can be put down to the fact that "weight" was here before "mass" and our cultures have gotten used to thinking about former but not the latter.

The Avoirdupois weight system is defined by the gram (pound = 453.59237g), the Imperial lengths are defined by meters (1 inch = 2.54mm), etc. Something to consider before trying to abolish the metric system.

As many have probably already stated, the metric system is simply much more conveinient in all senses.

The only reason the imperial system is still being used is because the States are stubborn and out of touch with the rest of the world.

In Canada, we are taught both the imperial and metric systems at school... Since I've been educated in both systems I can say with conviction that the imperial system sucks ass compared to the metric system. Why bother with complicated numbers that make no sense when converted? It's only a matter of time... just like the legalization of marijuana and gay marriage the Americans will eventually be assimilated.

This was supposed to be a fun discussion. We could recite arguments about the metric system in our sleep. And how did gay marriage get into the discussion? Stick to the point.

Remember:
Two thousand mocking birds = 2 kilomockingbirds

Because weight varies by area, and scales are calibrated to show the corresponding mass. The fact that we say "I weigh ##kg" can be put down to the fact that "weight" was here before "mass" and our cultures have gotten used to thinking about former but not the latter.

The Avoirdupois weight system is defined by the gram (pound = 453.59237g), the Imperial lengths are defined by meters (1 inch = 2.54mm), etc. Something to consider before trying to abolish the metric system.

Welcome Aboard!
So what you're saying is scales are wrong because gravity can vary. g = 32.2 f/s**2 only at a given distance from the center of the earth. Sure, pounds force suffers from the same problem.

Remember:
Two thousand mocking birds = 2 kilomockingbirdsAnd in Imperial units it is 17-8/13ths hurgliefraggers.

Oh right, ordering beer:
"[Insert brand name here]."
OR
"Beer."/"# beers."

As an American I've grown up using Imperial and though I favor it over Metric it is because for the past 21 years I have used it. However, in my teens I taught myself Metric because it was obvious that I wasn't going to learn it in school and it is useful because the rest of the world uses it. So either way think of it this way.

A girl hears she is 120 pounds. She flips out. She hears she is only 54 kilograms. That'll DEFINITELY make her feel better (regardless of the fact that the weight is the same!)

Also think of it this way in guy terms. The speed limit is 55 mph. OR 88 kmph. I like the sound of that better :). But I still know that at 88 kmph I'm still only doing 55 mph but hell it sounds better. That means I usually drive 112 to 120 kmph and I've maxed out at 150 kmph. Now I'm a bad-ass so go away :).

LOL!!!!

Although I have to say that I'd rather use inches when it comes to tools because I feel that millimeters is harder to calculate and convert.

25.4mm to an inch. Figure it this way. The M2HB .50-caliber machine gun is 12.7mm or 1/2 inch. So .50 caliber is 1/2 inch. Therein it helps a little easier when it comes to weapons and stuff.

I do have to say that Metric has easy things to it. kilo always = 1000, milli always 1/1000th, centa = 100, etc. That part is easy I have to say.

Speaking of beer, doesn't a pint sound a whole lot better that a few ml, or kl, or mg, or whatever? How do you order beer in metric, anyway?

I'd like to see you down a kiloliter of beer... really, I would.

I'd like to see you down a kiloliter of beer... really, I would.
lol! me too!! :D

:D

lol! me too!! :D

Sheesh man he'd be dead after 5 litres.

Sheesh man he'd be dead after 5 litres.
hehe.. just imagine the size of the glass! ;)

I favour the Imperial system for daily life, but i understand that metric is easier to use in, for example, science.

A 'stone' is about 14 lbs. so 224 oz.

Well, that is convenient.

I'd like to see you down a kiloliter of beer... really, I would.

It would all come right back up again. I know this for a fact.

Although I have to say that I'd rather use inches when it comes to tools because I feel that millimeters is harder to calculate and convert.
[in between parts edited out]
I do have to say that Metric has easy things to it. kilo always = 1000, milli always 1/1000th, centa = 100, etc. That part is easy I have to say.
The place where it hurts to buy standard tools is when you buy the cheap Chinese tools from Harbor Freight. I think they make everything in metric and then try to convert to inches. The tape measures are awfully inaccurate.

kilo, milli, centa, giga, etc isn't metric, it's Geek. I mean Greek. But the Greeks are metric. I'm so confused.

The place where it hurts to buy standard tools is when you buy the cheap Chinese tools from Harbor Freight. I think they make everything in metric and then try to convert to inches. The tape measures are awfully inaccurate.

kilo, milli, centa, giga, etc isn't metric, it's Geek. I mean Greek. But the Greeks are metric. I'm so confused.

Anybody that buys cheap tools just deserves to pay the consequences. When it comes to wrenches, Craftsman, plain and simple. Husky aren't bad but Craftsman. Otherwise, Ryobi is good too. DeWalt is a little overpriced in my mind and Hiliti is just unnecessary unless you are a contractor and in that case you know the dif between them. Snap-on are like $5,000 for a screw-driver but they re good too.

As someone who's used both a lot... I have to say imperial is better for back-of-the-envelope kind of stuff. If I had to design a piece of machinery by eyeballing it, or frame a building, that's what I would prefer to use. The imperial units are easier to visualize... I can figure that a one-inch axle can handle about a thousand foot-pounds of torque, or that a six-foot-long two-by-four piece of wood will hold a few hundred pounds of load in the middle, without actually calculating that. Metric is great for science, obviously if I was doing astronomy or geophysics that's what I would use (solar flux is 1500 joules per meter squared per second, etc).

I like metric for things like science, because it's easy to convert between units. However, I like imperial better for everyday things. I like saying i'm 5 foot 4 inches, instead of like...1.662 meters or whatever (and no, that's not an accurate conversion). I feel like metric length units lack something between a centimeter and meter. A meter seems to big to measure, say, a person, but a centimeter is too small. And I'm just used to it, if you say something weighs a kilogram it's kind of like "? ok?" Same for kilometers, but not so much cuz i run track and we use meters.
Also, what's all this talk of Slugs and Rods and Stones? who the hell cares, no one uses those. Pounds, feet, miles.
Liters and gallons i could care less, I am used to both from soda bottles and milk cartons.

It would all come right back up again. I know this for a fact.
Pffft. Lightweight. Lol! :)
Anyhew, I have to say I use both. Tend to use MPH rather than KPH (miles just sounds better, dunno why). But when measuring short lengths I tend to vary between inches and cm's depending upon who I'm talking to.
Weights generally get mixed to, Grams and Kiliograms usually, but I'm not aversed to using lbs and oz's.

Anybody that buys cheap tools just deserves to pay the consequences. When it comes to wrenches, Craftsman, plain and simple. Husky aren't bad but Craftsman. Otherwise, Ryobi is good too. DeWalt is a little overpriced in my mind and Hiliti is just unnecessary unless you are a contractor and in that case you know the dif between them. Snap-on are like $5,000 for a screw-driver but they re good too.

I like the hand-tool guarantee and replacement policy for Craftsman and Snap-on. Show up with a broken...and they give you a new one. Power tools aren't quite that good.

I wonder how that will change, now that K-mart is in charge?

Anybody that buys cheap tools just deserves to pay the consequences. When it comes to wrenches, Craftsman, plain and simple. Husky aren't bad but Craftsman. Otherwise, Ryobi is good too. DeWalt is a little overpriced in my mind and Hiliti is just unnecessary unless you are a contractor and....I trust Makita... or snap-on.

Also, what's all this talk of Slugs and Rods and Stones? who the hell cares, no one uses those. Pounds, feet, miles.
Liters and gallons i could care less, I am used to both from soda bottles and milk cartons.

WAIT A MINUTE!!! Slugs are fundamental! If you do a problem with mass in customary units, you will have to use slugs. 1 lbf-sec2/ft and people talk about lb_mass, but the only proper unit for mass is slugs.

Rods are fundamental in land measurements. We couldn't have property ownership in the US without rods, links, and chains.

So, get up off that milk carton and start preaching the gospel of the units of slugs and rods.

I like the hand-tool guarantee and replacement policy for Craftsman and ...sometimes guarantees do not reflect quality....Jaguars have a superior guarantee, yet they are junk...
I know cos...my father owned 2...later he swiched to the bimmers.

WAIT A MINUTE!!! Slugs are fundamental! .... We couldn't have property ownership in the US without rods, links, and chains..
LOL

I feel like metric length units lack something between a centimeter and meter.

The decimetre, perhaps?

sometimes guarantees do not reflect quality....Jaguars have a superior guarantee, yet they are junk...
I cos...know my father owned 2...and then he swiched to the bimmers.

They are leasing those pieces of junk like crazy, here. The Jags, I mean. Isn't that a Ford, now?

Personally, I'm happy with my 1987 300 DT. I think it's indestructable. At least until it rusts to pieces. Shame of it is, I've had to buy metric tools to work on it. I have to read the oil pressure in bars, too. Wait, that's not metric, it would pascals.

Saved, I'm saved from metric oblivion.

The decimetre, perhaps?

That would be where the two rod measurement comes in. Or the half chain. Take your pick.

They are leasing those pieces of junk like crazy, here. The Jags, I mean. Isn't that a Ford, now?

Personally, I'm happy with my 1987 300 DT. I think it's indestructable. At least until it rusts to pieces. Shame of it is, I've had to buy metric tools to work on it. I have to read the oil pressure in bars, too. Wait, that's not metric, it would pascals.

Saved, I'm saved from metric oblivion.a Benz?

the metric system is obsolete

in a way

we NEEDED a simplified system back when the only way to calculate was with pencil, paper and brain

now that we have calculators and computers what difference does it it make if its 16 oz in a lb or 100 g in a kg? the machine does the calculating.

only the standardization of machine parts puts metrics into consideration and then only because too much of the world uses it.

NASA thought so as well. (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/) It cost them a $125M Mars orbiter a few years ago.

On a technical note, Europe does not use the metric system. The metric system is centuries old, based on earthly standards, and not as accurate. The derivation used today is called System International, based upon atomic and universally true constants that has replaced the old. As for my position on this issue, I believe the metric system is without question superior in mathematical calculations (try to use your slugs, feet, pounds, and foot-pounds in a laboratory). The use of exponents of ten to transfer from atto to peta is extremely useful. The use of English units should be limited to what is necessary for familiar territory. The quarter pounder, mph, and yard lines can stay, nobody said we had to completely lose the one when we adopt the other.

I've found that Autocad is much smarter than I am. But Autocad doesn't seem to care much about the units system, cold and heartless beast that it is.

Cool! Another designer? What do you so Myrm?

.... nobody said we had to completely lose the one when we adopt the other.yeah maybe i want to keep a Beta and a VHS collection at home(sarcasm)...

its the Law of the Jungle, the survival of the fittest.

a Benz?
Absolutely. If I can just master the mystery of why everything is vacuum controlled, I'll be able to make the car last forever.

On a technical note, Europe does not use the metric system. The metric system is centuries old, based on earthly standards, and not as accurate. The derivation used today is called System International, based upon atomic and universally true constants that has replaced the old. As for my position on this issue, I believe the metric system is without question superior in mathematical calculations (try to use your slugs, feet, pounds, and foot-pounds in a laboratory). The use of exponents of ten to transfer from atto to peta is extremely useful. The use of English units should be limited to what is necessary for familiar territory. The quarter pounder, mph, and yard lines can stay, nobody said we had to completely lose the one when we adopt the other.

If you can calculate, you can run formulae and dimensional analysis in any units. Systems of measurement are just tools to get an answer. That's the really funny part about these debates. The system you choose is really trivial. It's the ability of the craftsman to come up with a useful product.

Shucks, my secret is out. I don't really care.

But the SI system is fundamentally flawed. Take the shrinking kilogram, for instance.
http://physics.csufresno.edu/wassign/phys4a/hall/Kilogram.htm
The whole idea of a standard that isn't really standard is pretty funny. A foot is a foot, of course, of course...

Cool! Another designer? What do you so Myrm?
Digital Design. FPGAs and board layout for a satellite modem company. Mostly, I'm an Orcad user. Autocad just creeps in if I have to do a panel or an enclosure.

Digital Design. FPGAs and board layout for a satellite modem company. Mostly, I'm an Orcad user. Autocad just creeps in if I have to do a panel or an enclosure.

Ahh, Im an Engineering Tech, I use that god-forsaken program all day, Architectural 3.3, which has enough bugs to make another Pixar movie.

I work in structural design right now, I love statics and calculus!! Yay!! :D

Ahh, Im an Engineering Tech, I use that god-forsaken program all day, Architectural 3.3, which has enough bugs to make another Pixar movie.

I work in structural design right now, I love statics and calculus!! Yay!! :D

At Georgia Tech, we were well versed in all the phases of engineering before they let us specialize. I'm always amazed how many EEs don't have a clue about statics or thermo.

I agree. Math is great. It's about as close to a perfect science as you can get. There is almost always a unique answer to every problem. That's just not the way engineering is. We have to settle for a 'best' or 'good enough' answer.

If you can calculate, you can run formulae and dimensional analysis in any units.....The system you choose is really trivial... The whole Lockheed Martin engineering team cannot "calculate"...... http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

NASA and/or Loockeed Rocket-Scientists cannot "calculate"....Maybe you should replace them...cos Im sure you can calculate better than them.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

Wrong conclusion. It was a process problem, not a engineering problem. And yes, I probably could replace any of several engineers on that team. If I applied my 20-20 hindsight, I'd even prevent the mishap.

Number one cause of engineering problems is either bad management, bad marketing or, as in this case, bad communications between different teams. After you have had a little more experience, you'll realize how trite your statement was.

At Georgia Tech, we were well versed in all the phases of engineering before they let us specialize. I'm always amazed how many EEs don't have a clue about statics or thermo.

I agree. Math is great. It's about as close to a perfect science as you can get. There is almost always a unique answer to every problem. That's just not the way engineering is. We have to settle for a 'best' or 'good enough' answer.

Well, I think its different to be an ETech here in Canada, but I agree with your opinion of math and about often settling in engineering. Its distressing at times.

Nice to meet you Myrm. Im off to eat now, but dont be a stranger!

... bad communications between different teams....If both engineering teams were using the same Metric...or the "stones-and-miles" system....they would not "blew-it-into-space"

BTW what does "Trite" means...

Either way I edited the cowboy part of my post.

Speaking of beer, doesn't a pint sound a whole lot better that a few ml, or kl, or mg, or whatever? How do you order beer in metric, anyway?
here you order pints, or bottles, or glasses or pitchers. now a pitcher is about a litre of beer... :D

This would kill McDonalds. A quarter-pounder would be a ... a ... a, well no one knows what it would become. That's the problem.
in italy, they call them "royal" burgers. of course they also sell beer at mcdonalds.

personally i think changing the name to royal burger in north america would make mcondalds food almost seem edible...

When you are watching a sport like weight lifting, how do you know if the 75 kg event you are watching is the amount of weight they lift, how much the lifters weigh, or what the temperature of the arena is?
simple conversion: kg to lbs multiply by 2.2, lbs to kg, divide by 2.2. not hard.

and temperature makes so much more sense in celcius. i don't know what's with the arbitrary 0 in farenheit. at least centigrate is zeroed on the freezing point of water at sea level.

and also, kg isn't weight strictly, it's a measure of mass. this makes is far superior for scientific calculations, especially when you're not concerned about the normal or gravitational force on the surface of the earth. (which, in physics is most of the time)

the metric system is obsolete

in a way

we NEEDED a simplified system back when the only way to calculate was with pencil, paper and brain

now that we have calculators and computers what difference does it it make if its 16 oz in a lb or 100 g in a kg? the machine does the calculating.

only the standardization of machine parts puts metrics into consideration and then only because too much of the world uses it.

we luddites who still use other systems are at no particular disadvantage when we continue to use them in our own countries and homes.
tell that to nasa. maybe they'll stop smashing space probes into planets.

But the SI system is fundamentally flawed. Take the shrinking kilogram, for instance.
http://physics.csufresno.edu/wassign/phys4a/hall/Kilogram.htm
The whole idea of a standard that isn't really standard is pretty funny. A foot is a foot, of course, of course...Too bad, that means the pound is "losing weight" at the exact same rate.

This about Europe not using metric but Système International d'Unités = crap.Main Entry: metric system
Function: noun
: a decimal system of weights and measures based on the meter and on the kilogramSI just defines those units differently than they were used to be defined. It's still the metric system.

Speaking of beer, doesn't a pint sound a whole lot better that a few ml, or kl, or mg, or whatever? How do you order beer in metric, anyway?

beer ordering in belgium:

-a pint: a regular unit of the standard beer in the bar/pub/café. Usually 25 cl.
-a 33-er: 33 cl of standard beer.
-half a liter: 50 cl of standard beer.
-"Duvel", "leffe", ...: a bottle of said beer, most are 33 cl.
-a meter: you receive 11 regular units of the standard beer for the price of 10. The meter is delivered in a special made wooden holder.
-a meter 33-ers: the same as above, only with 33-ers instead of regular units.
-a meter of half liters: haven't seen this, it might exist in some bars, but they would have to make special holders to hold the bigger glasses.
-a table: I've seen this, but it's rare. It basicly means that you bring a table and they fill it with pints. You need to be with two to carry it tho and i suggest you bring a third person with you to prevent the pints from falling.
-a shoe: take out a shoe, give it to the bartender and he fills it with beer. you have to be drunk to order this i suppose.
-a keg: 50 liters.

If both engineering teams were using the same Metric...or the "stones-and-miles" system....they would not "blew-it-into-space"


That's not strictly true. The measurement system didn't cause the failure. Misunderstanding either the original specs, or misunderstanding the results from other teams, or even one's own results is probably closer to the reason there was a failure.

Like I said before, a ruler is just a tool. It's what you do with it that matters. I can measure part of the area in my yard in meters and half in rods and chains and still come up with a pretty good idea of how much grass seed I need to buy. I just need to be aware that the 1500 sf is much different than the 150 m**2 that I have measured and buy accordingly. Sure, it's easier to use one system, but not essential.

BTW what does "Trite" means...

Either way I edited the cowboy part of my post.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=trite

It was probably the wrong use for trite. I was looking for a nice way to say wrong and stupid at the same time. Instead I got dull and tired.

beer ordering in belgium:

-a pint: a regular unit of the standard beer in the bar/pub/café. Usually 25 cl.
-a 33-er: 33 cl of standard beer.
-half a liter: 50 cl of standard beer.
-"Duvel", "leffe", ...: a bottle of said beer, most are 33 cl.
-a meter: you receive 11 regular units of the standard beer for the price of 10. The meter is delivered in a special made wooden holder.
-a meter 33-ers: the same as above, only with 33-ers instead of regular units.
-a meter of half liters: haven't seen this, it might exist in some bars, but they would have to make special holders to hold the bigger glasses.
-a table: I've seen this, but it's rare. It basicly means that you bring a table and they fill it with pints. You need to be with two to carry it tho and i suggest you bring a third person with you to prevent the pints from falling.
-a shoe: take out a shoe, give it to the bartender and he fills it with beer. you have to be drunk to order this i suppose.
-a keg: 50 liters.

I want to visit Belgium. Any country that has that many ways to order beer must be fun.

I want to visit Belgium. Any country that has that many ways to order beer must be fun.
You're not wrong there. I think it's a great place. Lots and lots of types of beer and all with their own special shaped glass too.

You're not wrong there. I think it's a great place. Lots and lots of types of beer and all with their own special shaped glass too.
Just don't leave any Hinikan behind!

Too bad, that means the pound is "losing weight" at the exact same rate.
1 lb mass = 0.45 kg, 0.44, 0.43... What happens when it gets to zero? Sure will put a crimp in orbital mechanics.
I'm sure that whole equivalence thing was done in a weak moment of diplomacy.
The history of the pound is always a little interesting. The earliest history is with the Roman libra pondo. The Saxon pound is probably the earliest standard in England. King Henry decided he wanted to collect more taxes per pound of something. So he introduced the Troy pound, which was tailored to that purpose.

This about Europe not using metric but Système International d'Unités = crap.SI just defines those units differently than they were used to be defined. It's still the metric system.

Still sounds too French to me.

Gets extremely confusing, especially if you have anything to do with NATO militaries...
My uniform shirt has a 41cm collar, while all my other shirts have 16".
The SA80s fire 5.56mm ammunition, while mk8 guns fire 4.5" shells.
Ship lengths are measured in metres, but ranges are measured in nautical miles and cables (which are slightly more logical than statute miles... 200 yds to a cable, 10 cables to a mile).
The list goes on...

The SA80s fire 5.56mm ammunition, while mk8 guns fire 4.5" shells.Got any 25-pounders left?

Gets extremely confusing, especially if you have anything to do with NATO militaries...
My uniform shirt has a 41cm collar, while all my other shirts have 16".
The SA80s fire 5.56mm ammunition, while mk8 guns fire 4.5" shells.
Ship lengths are measured in metres, but ranges are measured in nautical miles and cables (which are slightly more logical than statute miles... 200 yds to a cable, 10 cables to a mile).
The list goes on...

One Nautical Mile is the "perfect" standard. One minute of latitude. It doesn't get bigger or smaller and it doesn't have an abstract origin. Not as abstract as a kilogram or a meter, anyway.

One Nautical Mile is the "perfect" standard. One minute of latitude. It doesn't get bigger or smaller and it doesn't have an abstract origin. Not as abstract as a kilogram or a meter, anyway.

True, and it's that definition that makes it so useful for navigation. However, it can change (slowly) in size, depending on measurements of the Earth's radius.

Got any 25-pounders left?

Nope, but the flagship of the Home Fleet has 30 x 32 pounders, 28 x 24 pounders, 44 x 12 pounders and 2 x 68 pounder Carronades. The oldest warship in the world still in commission.

One Nautical Mile is the "perfect" standard. One minute of latitude. It doesn't get bigger or smaller and it doesn't have an abstract origin. Not as abstract as a kilogram or a meter, anyway.
What's wrong with 1 / 10 millionth of the distance between the Equator and the Pole? Seems as abstract or real as 1 minute of latitude, and they both have the same variances due to Earth's imperfect sphericity.

Nope, but the flagship of the Home Fleet has 30 x 32 pounders, 28 x 24 pounders, 44 x 12 pounders and 2 x 68 pounder Carronades. The oldest warship in the world still in commission.Woah. It will totally pwn any enemy fleet consisting of thousands of small sailing boats carrying men armed with LAWs.

One Nautical Mile is the "perfect" standard. One minute of latitude. It doesn't get bigger or smaller and it doesn't have an abstract origin. Not as abstract as a kilogram or a meter, anyway.We don't use fractions of c as a unit of speed either, no matter how concrete or definite it is. Well, not directly, anyway...

Nope, but the flagship of the Home Fleet has 30 x 32 pounders, 28 x 24 pounders, 44 x 12 pounders and 2 x 68 pounder Carronades. The oldest warship in the world still in commission.
Maaan, those are biiig burgers!!

The nautical mile is not that great a standard. First, it only works on earth. Measuring it off light is a much better plan.
I think we should switch all our numbering systems to base 12. That way every number is divisible by 1-4 and 6 easily. I don't like all the 3.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 (:headbang:) that I always get, they are annoying. With base 12, 10 / 3 = 4 (we obviously need two more numbers though). Base 16 is another good option, but it still has the problem with the 3's.

True, and it's that definition that makes it so useful for navigation. However, it can change (slowly) in size, depending on measurements of the Earth's radius.



Nope, but the flagship of the Home Fleet has 30 x 32 pounders, 28 x 24 pounders, 44 x 12 pounders and 2 x 68 pounder Carronades. The oldest warship in the world still in commission.

When did it enter service? I was just trying to gauge it against our USS Constitution. The keel was laid in 1794 and the ship sailed in 1797.

Maaan, those are biiig burgers!!

Yup, made quite a nice hole in the French/Spanish fleet.

Aye

Riegab, I actually find trigonomitry simple, and Algibra as well. It's multiplying and deviding I find hard.


I think your weaker link is.. spelling.

NASA thought so as well. (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/) It cost them a $125M Mars orbiter a few years ago.


Right.

Firm evidence that companies that are not 100% metric should be barred from bidding on government or semi-government contracts.

Zero-error tolerance also means no tolerance for those unable to become 100% pure metricists.

Right.

Firm evidence that companies that are not 100% metric should be barred from bidding on government or semi-government contracts.

Zero-error tolerance also means no tolerance for those unable to become 100% pure metricists.

That's a stupid thing to say. The metric system is certainly not any more accurate or reliable than the customary system.

The evidence only points to problems in communications or in specs. If there was a ban, though, in the US it should ban those firms that can't tell a snail from a slug.

That's a stupid thing to say. The metric system is certainly not any more accurate or reliable than the customary system.

No, but it does ensure that all parties involved are using the same standard system.

When did it enter service? I was just trying to gauge it against our USS Constitution. The keel was laid in 1794 and the ship sailed in 1797.

The keel was laid in 1759, launched 1765 and commisssioned 1778. There's a bit more information at this page (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=3512).

However, Constitution is the oldest commissioned warship afloat. VICTORY is permanently drydocked in Portsmouth Naval Base.

Yup, made quite a nice hole in the French/Spanish fleet.
I don't think the US has ever attacked the French fleet. You must be thinking about the Spanish fleet in 1898, but France has never been at war against the US (unless you count when the Nazis occupied it, which most people don't).

EDIT: Oops! Just realized my mistake. With all this talk about the Victory and the Constitution I got messed up. Sorry.

No, but it does ensure that all parties involved are using the same standard system.
That's not even strictly necessary. Remember my example about grass seed? NASA has sent large numbers of craft into space without a mishap. With the exception of the Mars Orbiter, all of the other mishaps had nothing to do with measuring in inches or meters. In fact, most manned spacecraft were designed with slide rules and mechanical calculators. There's 3 places of precision on some of those things. That's not relevant to the present topic, but it is remarkable how much we over-design today.

It does seem reasonable, although I can't prove it, to assume that many previous projects were done with mixed measuring systems. I'll bet a joule or newton crept into a calculation somewhere and didn't cause the disaster the nay-sayers here would demand.

That's a stupid thing to say. The metric system is certainly not any more accurate or reliable than the customary system.

The evidence only points to problems in communications or in specs. If there was a ban, though, in the US it should ban those firms that can't tell a snail from a slug.

It is THE Standard, and standards exist to be religiously followed.


More DIN, and less gin.

The keel was laid in 1759, launched 1765 and commisssioned 1778. There's a bit more information at this page (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=3512).

However, Constitution is the oldest commissioned warship afloat. VICTORY is permanently drydocked in Portsmouth Naval Base.

What a battle it would have been between the Victory and Old Ironside. Well, maybe not. It appears the Victory was in reserve by 1812. Two ships with great histories, though.

It is THE Standard, and standrds exist to be religiously followed.

I think there is a little bit of doubt in the worlds most innovative country about what the standard should be. But if you write to NASA, I'm sure they will treat your recommendations with all due respect.

On the other hand, if you have something to say, besides the dogmatic pronouncement above, I'd like to see it. Why can't problems be solved with other measurment systems. It's not like the metric system changes properties of metals or laws of nature, is it?

I think there is a little bit of doubt in the worlds most innovative country about what the standard should be. But if you write to NASA, I'm sure they will treat your recommendations with all due respect.


Why on Earth do you feel a sudden need to discuss the People's Republic of China in connection with NASA?

I love it, the last bastion of the Imperial measurement system is an Imperialist.

PS If someone offers you a US ounce of Gold vs an Aussie ounce of Gold, go for the US one (assuming same purity of Gold).

No, I live in Singapore, we've used metric ever since we became an independent country. It works for us... Learning how to convert between systems we don't learn, but I guess it's useful.

Why on Earth do you feel a sudden need to discuss the People's Republic of China in connection with NASA?
This isn't a political topic. Mostly. My apologies for introducing ambiguity into the question. Maybe we are just the world's most dominant country. Topic for another day.

Let's get back on track and explain why the metric measuring system is the only acceptable system for space exploration. Well, why can't problems be solved with other measurement systems?

What a battle it would have been between the Victory and Old Ironside. Well, maybe not. It appears the Victory was in reserve by 1812. Two ships with great histories, though.

I don't think Constitution would have stood much chance in a slugging match... although a good ship, she is only a frigate and not a ship of the line. One of the main reasons she and her sister were so effective in the war of 1812 was that the main Royal Navy was busy in Europe and so they only encountered frigates and smaller vessels. VICTORY on the other hand was a 104-gun, 3-decked Ship of the Line, and one of the finest examples of that type in the world. Against that, any frigat (no matter how good) is going to have some severe difficulties.

I grew up with Metric measurement in school from the get-go. In fact, it started the same year I entered grade one - so for that first year, our textbooks were all still Imperial measure. We were able, for the most part, to simply substitute Metric terms for Imperial, but our teacher had to scramble at times.

Metric made perfect sense to me - it wasn't arbitrary like Imperial; For example, 0 degrees Celsius is the freezing point of water. Okay. 100 hundred degrees Celsius is the boiling point of water. Alright. Everything in-between is one of a hundred degrees. Simple. One cubic centimetre is equivalent to the amount of space one centilitre of water occupies. Simple.

Fast-forward to life in the real world: I, and those of my specific age group, had to adjust to the fact that most, if not all of those older than us, had no freakin' clue what we were talking about. So, depending on our eventual areas of expertise, we had to adapt - I became familiar with Imperial measure. I tend to favour Imperial measure for such things as a person's height and weight, and when designing graphics I think in 'dots-per-inch' and dimensions of 11"x17"...but beyond that, I think in litres. Degrees Celsius. Kilometers per hour. Hectares.

Perhaps if we were to measure height in decimetres rather than metres or centimetres, I might get into the habit. M or CM for personal height just gives too odd-looking a number for me to deal with. DM would make it seem a little more human.

Perhaps if we were to measure height in decimetres rather than metres or centimetres, I might get into the habit. M or CM for personal height just gives too odd-looking a number for me to deal with. DM would make it seem a little more human.The only reason for that is you're used to seeing numbers in the 5 - 7 range for human height. Having been raised using nothing but metric, values of 1.5-2.1, or 150-210, look very "human" to me.

Deci-units are quite rare, actually. Deciliters can be seen when describing the volume of some objects like glasses, but most things are still either centiliters or liters. For weight, it's tonnes/kilograms/grams/milligrams -- in leaps of 1,000. For length/distance, it's kilometers/meters/centimeters/millimeters. Hectares are the only example of hecto-units in common use, I can't think of a single common use for deca-units.

*sticks her tongue out at everyone who gave her a hard time over that 100g = 1kg thing.*

and reminds herself that she NEVER makes a mistake over the unit conversions of the 16 oz = 1 lb sort

and i still stand by my original point. with the advent of calculators/computers, the difficulty of dealing with the odd conversions in the english system are rendered irrelevant. the ONLY benefit to the US converting now has already been done. science and machine parts that need to be done in international units are BEING done in international units. there is no benefit to ME to start using metrics in my daily life.

so even though i have no problems with the metric system, why should i be forced to change over to it? i say its just not worth the trouble and expense.

Erehwon, yes. I agree. It's what you're exposed to that makes for familiarity.

Deci-units need not be rare. It's just a question of appropriate scaling. I've heard rainfall measurement given in the hundreds of mL, when cL or dL would make for single-digit approximations.

Do I need to know that in the month of March, there was 835 mL of precipitaion? I'd be just as happy to hear there had been nearly 8 and a half dL of precipitation. Or why measure a bottle of pop by mL? A 500 mL bottle of Coke is a 5 dL bottle of Coke.

I just don't see why we can't make full use of Metric so as to avoid messy triple-digit numbers. Everything we need is there, why not use it?

This isn't a political topic. Mostly. My apologies for introducing ambiguity into the question. Maybe we are just the world's most dominant country. Topic for another day.

Let's get back on track and explain why the metric measuring system is the only acceptable system for space exploration. Well, why can't problems be solved with other measurement systems?


Because there is only ONE globally acceptable system of measurement.
That being so, all others must be repressed.

Deci-units need not be rare. It's just a question of appropriate scaling. [...]
I just don't see why we can't make full use of Metric so as to avoid messy triple-digit numbers. Everything we need is there, why not use it?In addition to scaling, it's a question of how many units can we "internalize". I've got a good feeling for what a ton, a kilogram or a gram (or more like hundreds of grams -- but not hectograms...) of mass feels like, I can visualize lengths in kilometers, meters, centimeters and millimeters without thinking about what the unit actually means, and the same goes for a liter and maybe a hectare.

With a decimeter, let alone a decameter or a hectometer, I've first got to convert it to a unit I am more familiar with, generally meter or kilometer, before I can visualize it. Giving 3-digit meter distances is less of a bother to me than learning to visualize decameters or hectometers, and the same goes for decimeters, decaliters, etc.

People can't be bothered to internalize 10 units for length when 4, or even 3, do quite nicely for most matters, with one more when you go off-planet.

I don't think Constitution would have stood much chance in a slugging match... although a good ship, she is only a frigate and not a ship of the line. One of the main reasons she and her sister were so effective in the war of 1812 was that the main Royal Navy was busy in Europe and so they only encountered frigates and smaller vessels. VICTORY on the other hand was a 104-gun, 3-decked Ship of the Line, and one of the finest examples of that type in the world. Against that, any frigat (no matter how good) is going to have some severe difficulties.

So I see. It does look like the battles that the Constitution won were against 34-38 gun ships. Although, she did beat two men-of-war single-handed, and keeping the CYANE for a prize. Not too bad.

But aren't you glad that doctors around the world use cc's (cubic centimetres) to measure dosage? When was the last time you heard of a medical mixup where someone administered a shot using cubic inches? Well, pretty much never, as far as I know. I don't think I've ever seen a syringe that wasn't measured in cc's.

But aren't you glad that doctors around the world use cc's (cubic centimetres) to measure dosage? When was the last time you heard of a medical mixup where someone administered a shot using cubic inches? Well, pretty much never, as far as I know. I don't think I've ever seen a syringe that wasn't measured in cc's.
but if we had to figure out drams/pound of bodyweight it would be jsut as easy as CCs/kg of bodyweight. its all done with a calculator. what difference would it make if a syringe were measured in CCs or drams? you fill it the same way to the line indicated. no problem.