NationStates Jolt Archive

I am a seriously heavy cynical agnostic, and I challenge any religious folk to attempt to convert me to their religion. You are free to use any methods nessesary, and flaming is forbidden.

Can you covert a major cynical? Try your luck!

And if I get no challenges, I will assume that Conversion is impossible, thus-why try doing it?

Just to add, you may even try and convert me to satanism, if you wish.

I have a rifle and a Bible. Where do you live heathen?

I have a rifle and a Bible. Where do you live heathen?

I come from the United Kingdom, my friend. ;)

I come from the United Kingdom, my friend. ;)
I'll be there in a moment.

I'll be there in a moment.

In a jet car? :)

In a jet car? :)
God will teleport me.

God will teleport me.

LOL.

But seriously, doesn't anyone want to try and convert me?

No, not really.

If you convert to *my* religion, you get 17 full-day holidays (1 for each month, plus 5 extra ones to make up for mythical 'missing days'). Your employer is never allowed to force you to work more than 40 hours a week, but also can't cut your pay (it's not 'time off', it's 'religious observation'). It would also be religious intolerance for serving people to be rude to you, or for telemarketers to call you.

You also get these cute chocolate winged-cats, and fluffy pompom rabbits, plus alcohol... plus, I don't know... sex from pseudo-Catholic schoolgirls (or an appropriate alternate male stereotype) on each major holiday for the rest of your life.

So, come on. Convert.

If you convert to *my* religion, you get 17 full-day holidays (1 for each month, plus 5 extra ones to make up for mythical 'missing days'). Your employer is never allowed to force you to work more than 40 hours a week, but also can't cut your pay (it's not 'time off', it's 'religious observation'). It would also be religious intolerance for serving people to be rude to you, or for telemarketers to call you.

You also get these cute chocolate winged-cats, and fluffy pompom rabbits, plus alcohol... plus, I don't know... sex from pseudo-Catholic schoolgirls (or an appropriate alternate male stereotype) on each major holiday for the rest of your life.

So, come on. Convert.

And what is the name of this religion?

Come to the Religion of the Almighty Dollar! I can't guarantee you a splended Afterlife, but if you do your chores, the Heaven on Earth awaits you! Prosessions are in every bank in every country, at the "Enlightment"-counter.

And what is the name of this religion?

Erm... hmm...

Shaed...is...m? Shaed... ianity?

Erm... hmm...

Shaed...is...m? Shaed... ianity?

So what is your belief of what happens after death?

Conversion of nonbelievers goes against my religion. We figure if you can't figure it on your own then more room for the rest of us. HA!

Which is a shame as it's really quite a nice little sect of free thinking, non judgemental, foks who eat what they want, drink what they want, curse as much as they like, and never have to get up early on Sunday. Or Monday thru Saturday, come to think of it.

Good luck on the whole conversion thing, you heathen you! :D

There is no God. There really isn't. So just convert to atheism and be done with it.

I mean, let's face it, if there is a God you're no better off as an agnostic anyway. Just go the whole hog and get rid of those niggling doubts. Besides, just because you can't be sure is no reason not to believe.

So what is your belief of what happens after death?

We die. Our aim is to make sure that we cram in all the enjoyable stuff before that happens.

There is no God. There really isn't. So just convert to atheism and be done with it.

I mean, let's face it, if there is a God you're no better off as an agnostic anyway. Just go the whole hog and get rid of those niggling doubts. Besides, just because you can't be sure is no reason not to believe.

Why should I accept athiesm when I will still be an agnostic at heart? I need logical proof why athiesm is the way forward.

We die. Our aim is to make sure that we cram in all the enjoyable stuff before that happens.

Impressive... but no. I think i'll enjoy what I choose to enjoy, not what I am told to enjoy.

Impressive... but no. I think i'll enjoy what I choose to enjoy, not what I am told to enjoy.

o.O

You aren't told what to enjoy... just to enjoy...
You can turn down any of the converting offers... they're just offers, after all.

o.O

You aren't told what to enjoy... just to enjoy...
You can turn down any of the converting offers... they're just offers, after all.

Well, it's not an official religion. I'm seeking those who want to convert me to an official religion... so I can test my wits.

Well, it's not an official religion. I'm seeking those who want to convert me to an official religion... so I can test my wits.

Tsk, you should have said... then I wouldn't have wasted your time...

*wanders off, taking pseudo-Catholic schoolgirl costume with her*

:p

Tsk, you should have said... then I wouldn't have wasted your time...

*wanders off, taking pseudo-Catholic schoolgirl costume with her*

:p

Oh dear oh dear... I don't sleep with catholic schoolgirls anyway-that'd count as paedophillia.

Oh dear oh dear... I don't sleep with catholic schoolgirls anyway-that'd count as paedophillia.

Pffffft... I'm 18 in five months or so anyway...

Pffffft... I'm 18 in five months or so anyway...

<----- 19, almost 20... heh.

<----- 19, almost 20... heh.

I fail to see any sort of paedophillia here then. Hell, it wouldn't even be statutary rape where I am.

http://www.nyhs.org/images/Herp%20Comics/Far%20Side/god%20makes%20the%20snake.jpg

I am a seriously heavy cynical agnostic, and I challenge any religious folk to attempt to convert me to their religion. You are free to use any methods nessesary, and flaming is forbidden.

Can you covert a major cynical? Try your luck!

And if I get no challenges, I will assume that Conversion is impossible, thus-why try doing it?

Seriously man, it's kind of a personal journey. You can't have people converting you like this, you need to seek out the answer for yourself.

Also assuming it impossible if nobody replies on an Internet forum is kind of lame; they may just not care. :D

Good luck!

http://www.nyhs.org/images/Herp%20Comics/Far%20Side/god%20makes%20the%20snake.jpg

The jellyfish was even easier.

Pffffft... I'm 18 in five months or so anyway...

...whoh, I'm older then you? o_O

**grabs cane**

I fail to see any sort of paedophillia here then. Hell, it wouldn't even be statutary rape where I am.

Really... NO! I'm a nice guy... *Puts on halo*

;)

Speaking of useless attemps at conversion, why does anyone think that the run-of-the-mill religious tract actually works?

I've read many, many of those little pamphlets and short stories, and they've done absolutely nothing to convince me, or even make me question my atheist conviction...

I mean, quoting things from the Bible is not "proof"... It only has any power at all if you're already a believer... This is "preaching to the choir"...

I don't read: "Random Bible quote Book:Chapter" and go "Wow! I've been so wrong! That changed my mind!"

Nope... I think, "That's nice and all, but how is that supposed to convince me of anything?"

In fact, some of them have gone further in pushing me away from conversion than towards it...lol

Really... NO! I'm a nice guy... *Puts on halo*

;)
Halo? You're not allowed to wear one of those unless you convert to Christianity.

That do it for ya?

Halo? You're not allowed to wear one of those unless you convert to Christianity.

That do it for ya?

*Takes off halo*

Aww... oh well. I refuse to convert without logical proof of this "God."

*Takes off halo*

Aww... oh well. I refuse to convert without logical proof of this "God."
Wait until the January sales - you'll get a much better deal.

Hmm... reads slightly like a contradiction for me. If we had a logical proof of god we would not 'believe' and it wouldn't be called 'religion'. We would know,
and it would be science!

So you are claiming that you will convert to a religion if someone is able to destroy the necessary preconditions for this religion (i.e. to believe, i.e. not to know)? :headbang:

Wait until the January sales - you'll get a much better deal.

Perhaps i will... them 50% off deals go fast though...

Perhaps i will... them 50% off deals go fast though...
Yeah, but even if you miss out on them, the new improved ones will be on the market for £10 less than the old ones used to be.

Yeah, but even if you miss out on them, the new improved ones will be on the market for £10 less than the old ones used to be.

Meh-they slowly increase the prices before January anyway-so they can reduce them to the old price.

...whoh, I'm older then you? o_O

**grabs cane**

Goed, my dear, *everyone* is older than me. Probably everyone is taller than me, also. It's the universe's way of expressing its hatred of me, creatively.

:p

Goed, my dear, *everyone* is older than me. Probably everyone is taller than me, also. It's the universe's way of expressing its hatred of me, creatively.

:p


Screw the universe! We love you!
:fluffle:

Screw the universe! We love you!
:fluffle:

Hee/awww.

:fluffle: for you too

:D

So, the teleporting thing didn't happen. Unless God teleported my whole house.

*Runs outside to see where he is and quickly runs back in*

Damn, tis cold out. I guess God took the night off. That just means one more day of your pagan ways.

Ok people this is not a happy love thread. Try to convert me or make some related satire, but no love please.

Ok people this is not a happy love thread. Try to convert me or make some related satire, but no love please.
Jesus loves you though...:(

Ok people this is not a happy love thread. Try to convert me or make some related satire, but no love please.
:fluffle: ?
Seriously though? I think I will leave your poor innocent thread... I kinda hi-jacked it...
Sorry TIN.
*leaves thread to the serious people*

Why should I accept athiesm when I will still be an agnostic at heart? I need logical proof why athiesm is the way forward.

You mean you need logical proof for everything you believe? o_O

You mean you need logical proof for everything you believe? o_O
Well, usually this does help just a little.
I've heard Santa is coming soon, but I'm not holding my breath come the 24th.

You mean you need logical proof for everything you believe? o_O

Exactly. I'm VERY cynical. Until I see proof i'm not even sure if I really exist.

All you need is love.

But seriously, I don't think you're going to get any serious takers in this forum. You could head down to the local Scientology building, though. I understand their always trying to convert new suckers - i mean souls.

Exactly. I'm VERY cynical. Until I see proof i'm not even sure if I really exist.

Well I fully accept there's logical disproof of everything. EDIT: Whoops, that should read "there's no logical proof of anything (bar the fact that something exists)". Where I disagree is that this should any way influence my actual beliefs that are not strictly logical. And why should every belief be logical? Logic is great as an objective standard but we don't need to hold up our own personal beliefs to objective standards. Besides, the mere fact that you used your non-proven fingers to type on a non-proven keyboard to leave a non-proven reply to a non-proven person on a non-proven messageboard on the non-proven internet shows why logically proof not only should not, but cannot, dictate our beliefs. Anyone with a decent grasp of philosophy would cease to function otherwise.

I am a seriously heavy cynical agnostic, and I challenge any religious folk to attempt to convert me to their religion. You are free to use any methods nessesary, and flaming is forbidden.

Can you covert a major cynical? Try your luck!

And if I get no challenges, I will assume that Conversion is impossible, thus-why try doing it?The question is... do you really and truly want to convert?

How do I know i'm not imagining all of you in my conciousness? The only cetanty is that I exist-what I question is wether all of you are in my mind.

How do I know i'm not imagining all of you in my conciousness? The only cetanty is that I exist-what I question is wether all of you are in my mind.
No we're not... Yes we are

How do I know i'm not imagining all of you in my conciousness? The only cetanty is that I exist-what I question is wether all of you are in my mind.


You got it, brother! The rest is all faith. Good luck.

The only reason I go on with this life is-If it's my imagination, then what have I got to worry about?

The only reason I go on with this life is-If it's my imagination, then what have I got to worry about?

The reason I know I'm not creating my own reality is because if I was I'd be rich and somebody more important, like a movie star. God I love a good steak!

How do I know i'm not imagining all of you in my conciousness? The only cetanty is that I exist-what I question is wether all of you are in my mind.

"Cognito ergo sum" is invalid, there's not even any certainty that I exist. There's only certainty that something exists. Anything else is speculation.

But since when is certainty a necessary condition for belief? Furthermore certainty has absolutely nothing to do with valid belief, one can doubt a valid belief and be certain of an invalid one.

If you try to appeal to objective standards to justify beliefs you will fail every time. For the simple reason that our very nature means we are unable to determine the objective. Just accept that belief is, by its very nature, subjective. Then aim for consistency.


I'm also SwissCorp, BTW (damn puppets).

The reason I know I'm not creating my own reality is because if I was I'd be rich and somebody more important, like a movie star. God I love a good steak!

Perhaps we have no control over what we imagine...

Perhaps we have no control over what we imagine...
And God the all powerful makes you imagine things :eek:

Convert to Christianity

Perhaps we have no control over what we imagine...

the reality we create? Man that would suck! So I guess it still comes back to faith. DAMN YOU FAITH!!!

Okay. Sorry. Too much spam from me tonight. I should probably just slouch off to Bethlehem now.

Night all.

And God the all powerful makes you imagine things :eek:

Convert to Christianity

The Christian god sucks. Have you even read the bible? It's a sin to go to the toilet...

The Jewish faith is even worse... During their peroid, Women are considered "Unclean", and cannot go near their husbands.

The Christian god sucks. Have you even read the bible? It's a sin to go to the toilet...

The Jewish faith is even worse... During their peroid, Women are considered "Unclean", and cannot go near their husbands.

...

You say that likes it's a bad thing. Hell, I don't even want to be near me when I have my period, let alone subject anyone else to my personality... I'd have thought men would be jumping at the chance to be spared the few days of utter, utter emotional hell... a reason that the wife can't be pissed about, no less...

...

You say that likes it's a bad thing. Hell, I don't even want to be near me when I have my period, let alone subject anyone else to my personality... I'd have thought men would be jumping at the chance to be spared the few days of utter, utter emotional hell... a reason that the wife can't be pissed about, no less...

When my mother and my sister herd of this law their response was a sarcastic "Charming!"

Mine was one of little care. I just wondered why it's a sin to be near somone with a peroid.

Exactly. I'm VERY cynical. Until I see proof i'm not even sure if I really exist.
Yeah, there's some debate about whether there might be life on Mars, but I'm not yet convinced there's life on Earth.

The Christian god sucks. Have you even read the bible? It's a sin to go to the toilet...

The Jewish faith is even worse... During their peroid, Women are considered "Unclean", and cannot go near their husbands.If you read the bible completly... then you would know that no longer applies.

Yeah, there's some debate about whether there might be life on Mars, but I'm not yet convinced there's life on Earth.

Well it's clear theres no Intellegent life on earth, anyway.

The Christian god sucks. Have you even read the bible? It's a sin to go to the toilet...

The Jewish faith is even worse... During their peroid, Women are considered "Unclean", and cannot go near their husbands.
all I can say that it's good to be bad

all I can say that it's good to be bad

Oh yes I bought you a present for Christmas... LEGS!

Oh yes I bought you a present for Christmas... LEGS!
This isn't "corrupt a wish game" :p :D

This isn't "corrupt a wish game" :p :D

Still, they're yours Legless! Enjoy being the "Legged Pirate!"

Still, they're yours Legless! Enjoy being the "Legged Pirate!"
I feel really special...

thanks TIN :fluffle:

If you read the bible completly... then you would know that no longer applies.

I don't understand this...

There's a quote from God in the Bible that says that he doesn't change...

So, then, why does he change his mind?

I feel really special...

thanks TIN :fluffle:

Oh please, not in front of the religious folk...

Oh please, not in front of the religious folk...
A man> :fluffle: <a boy

A man> :fluffle: <a boy

a dead man > :eek: :gundge: <An angry boy

a sinner > :eek: :gundge: < priest with stoning gun
you mean like this?

You're too late ... I've already converted you. You just haven't realised it yet.

What's my prize?

I don't understand this...

There's a quote from God in the Bible that says that he doesn't change...

So, then, why does he change his mind?If you want proof... read the bible completly... We can tell you but then that's not Proof. As TIN said, He needs to "See" it. Then read the Bible, cuz everything else will only be hearsay, and not Proof.

Edited... didn't see that it wasn't TIN reply but SSGX.

I'm currently in the process of reading the Bible, but I've only gotten up into Deuteronomy...

And perhaps my questions will be answered at some point...

However, the problem here is that the Bible is only "proof" if you already believe it while reading it... If you're not already a believer, the Bible is nothing but another piece of fiction...

The Bible's sole support of being true is itself... The Bible is true because it says so... That isn't logically sound...

The only reason I go on with this life is-If it's my imagination, then what have I got to worry about?

Well, there's always Tourette's...

I am a seriously heavy cynical agnostic, and I challenge any religious folk to attempt to convert me to their religion. You are free to use any methods nessesary, and flaming is forbidden.

Can you covert a major cynical? Try your luck!

And if I get no challenges, I will assume that Conversion is impossible, thus-why try doing it?

Question, what is your opinion of yourself? In terms of morality?

I'm somewhat confused by your clarification that you only want people seeking to convert you to an "official" religion. Given that ultimately any religious belief comes down to the decisions made by one person or elite group of persons, it would appear that you are needlessly eliminating any myriad of possible beliefs with an a priori argumentum ad populum.

As well, atheism is not a religion, merely a position on a single facet of religious belief: the existence of a or group of deities. There are atheistic religions, such as Shintoism, and there are atheistic agnostics (not to disclude other assorted atheists). I recommend reading Bertrand Russell's essay Am I an Atheist, or an Agnostic? (http://www.luminary.us/russell/atheist_agnostic.html) for a little more understanding. For my own self, I would, logically, be required to describe myself as a philosophical agnostic and a practical atheist. While philosophically I accept that the possibility that there very well may be some deity in existence, I do not, in practice apply that possibility to my actions and choices throughout my day. Essentially, I live as though there were no deities which would stand in judgement of my actions.

So, in short, if any set of beliefs are to be considered, in any serious manner, then all should given equal opportunity, in the interest of intellectual honesty. Likewise, in order to attempt any sort of conversion, you will need to outline more than just your stance on the existence of a deity or deities. A good place to start would be an brief outline on how you believe the universe to work, and your basis by which you construct that belief.

I am a seriously heavy cynical agnostic, and I challenge any religious folk to attempt to convert me to their religion. You are free to use any methods nessesary, and flaming is forbidden.

Can you covert a major cynical? Try your luck!

And if I get no challenges, I will assume that Conversion is impossible, thus-why try doing it?

Will you convert to my religion? IN order to convert to my religion, you have to utterly reject it and/or never actually convert to it. So please perform the conversion.

I am a seriously heavy cynical agnostic, and I challenge any religious folk to attempt to convert me to their religion. You are free to use any methods nessesary, and flaming is forbidden.

Can you covert a major cynical? Try your luck!

And if I get no challenges, I will assume that Conversion is impossible, thus-why try doing it?

I will simply ask you to read through this short entry. Clicky (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Combustianism).

Haha! I claim the prize!

Not really for specific religion, but as the famous mathematician Pascal once said, it is better to believe and be wrong than it is to not believe and be wrong. If you believe and you are wrong, nothing happens, but if you don't and you are wrong, bad things will happen. Once you believe in God, it's just a quick jump into any modern western theism you want. Or were you looking for more of an eastern religion?

Not really for specific religion, but as the famous mathematician Pascal once said, it is better to believe and be wrong than it is to not believe and be wrong. If you believe and you are wrong, nothing happens, but if you don't and you are wrong, bad things will happen. Once you believe in God, it's just a quick jump into any modern western theism you want. Or were you looking for more of an eastern religion?

Unless you believe in the WRONG deity, and it kicks your arse because you chose the wrong path instead of waiting for death to find out.

AKA: Pascal was a moron.

Unless you believe in the WRONG deity, and it kicks your arse because you chose the wrong path instead of waiting for death to find out.

AKA: Pascal was a moron.
besides the pascall remark I agree (for the remark I just am indifferent dont know enough about him to make judgement)

Convert to Islam and you get a hell of a lot of virgins after you die.
Convert to Christianity and you can have eternal temperance and abstinence seminars.
Convert to Buddhism and you can abandon all desire and drive and you'll reach nirvana.
Convert to Hinduism and you can be reincarnated as an owner of a strip club!
Convert to Wiccan and you can summon demons to do your evil bidding!
Convert to atheism and you can be an elitist because you're a "free-thinker," just like all the other atheists out there.

You make the choice.

I'll try a different thought.
It doesn't lead to a higher "being", though it's the argument used by Maimonides.

Let us start by defining what God *is*. And begin with what he *is not*.

There is no "instance" of God. God has attributes, but there is not a localized instance of God.

Working backwards from what we can see, we know that behind everything that exists, there is an abstraction from which that instance (or realization) springs.

And, we know that behind every abstraction, there is a higher abstraction that encompasses a larger number of subsidiary abstractions.

We know that without those abstractions, the underlying instances of those abstractions would not exist.

We can take this up the chain to a point where there is the ultimate abstraction of all abstractions - the source and pattern from which all things spring.

Truly, the idea that we are made in *God's* image would then be true - but God would not be a bearded man in the sky, nor would God have any realized instance who could *speak* to us directly. Nor could we imagine God's form, because an abstraction without realization has no form.

Math and physics gives some insight into this abstraction.

It would not be necessary to worship the abstraction. But if you acknowledge that the abstraction must exist, then you're converted.

*Selects army of monks and right clicks on The Imperial Navy*

Convert, Convert, Convert
Mwahahahahahahaha

*Streaks out of thread*

Hey TIN, I win!

(I don't need to convert you; I'm agnostic myself)

*Selects army of monks and right clicks on The Imperial Navy*

Convert, Convert, Convert
Mwahahahahahahaha

*Streaks out of thread*

*turns off computer*

Sorry, Jews don't seek converts. However, if you are interested in converting, see a rabbi at your local synagogue. Judaism is a lot liberaler than Christianity IMO.

I am a seriously heavy cynical agnostic, and I challenge any religious folk to attempt to convert me to their religion. You are free to use any methods necessary, and flaming is forbidden.

Can you covert a major cynical? Try your luck!

And if I get no challenges, I will assume that Conversion is impossible, thus-why try doing it?
First thought - why bother? The information on all the major religions is out there, so if God gets P.O.ed at you for nonbelief it's your fault, not mine. Really, wouldn't keeping the thread focused on Shaed in a schoolgirl outfit be more fun?
That said - assuming that you can't be converted doesn't mean that no one else can be converted: Christianity, Islam and Buddhism were all dependant on conversion for their rapid growths.

Now, it's possible that you can provide some reason to convert you, so I'll start on that assumption:
You claim to be a cynic. Have you ever applied basic cynicism to the idea of being a cynic? Who wants you to be a cynic? What's in it for them? Consider, if you are cynical about politicians, there's no reason to change - because "all politicians are bastards" the bastards need not improve/retire, because you are convinced that their successors will be equally bad. Similarly, if you are cynical about social progress, anyone who has an investment in the status quo benefits, as the threat of you improving the system has been neutralised.
So be wary of cynicism - or more precisely, be wary of only being a little bit cynical.
Now, I'm going to work on the assumption that you'd like to become a real cynic rather than returning to starry-eyed idealism, so let’s apply basic cynicism to the public perception of Christianity, shall we?

Religion in general and Christianity in particular is currently despised in western society. Why? Well, we could ask the people who despise it, but why would we believe them? Let’s have a look at what has been done in the name of religion in western countries, and see.
The Inquisition? Not a chance. Something that happened 1/2 a millennia ago affecting modern beliefs? In empires you’ve never heard of? That’s propaganda. Let’s get closer, with the 20th century.
Well, the biggest changes caused by religion have been – Ghandi* in India, Martin Luther King in the USA, JPII in Poland. So: peaceful independence in India, fighting racism in the USA and granting political freedoms in Eastern Europe.

So Christianity’s major enemies are going to be anyone who opposes those things – in other words, the establishment. The people who control the media, the universities, the courts, the schools. It’s notable that in Nation States, we get issues with religious leaders demanding human sacrifice (go on, find a modern real world example) and banning medical technology, but where are the religious leaders demanding equality, freedom, peace? Somehow they ‘slipped the mind’ of Max. Strange that.

Of course, this doesn’t prove that Christianity is true – merely that it’s reputation is being tarnished as punishment for having done the right thing. But if you’re going to take cynicism seriously, you should be looking at the anti-Christian propaganda with a jaundiced eye.

That’s as much as you get without providing me with some motivation. (Of course, persuading Shaed to post a picture of herself wearing that school girl outfit would be more than sufficient)!

*Yes, I know Ghandi wasn’t Christian. I’m not sure that means much, given that he argued that Brahmin should study the Bible. Eh – he seems to have understood Christ’s teachings much better than most people, so what’s in a name?

Convert to Scudianism, a religion I made up a few years ago revolving around my cat.
My cat's name is Scud, and in Scudianism, she is God.
Other then that, you're free to do what you want.
And of course the existance of god can be proven, because my cat is still alive.