NationStates Jolt Archive

Seriously, folks. i know kids get screwed up if you're not a gentle, nurturing adult, but i'm having two problems keeping up that facade:

1: The sneaking suspicion that if i administer a technique like "The Dragon Kick," i'll only ever have to ask once about anything ever again. (With props to Madox)

2: The violent compulsions that also make me think of names like Chaosmanglemaimdeathia.

Any suggestions, you nancy pantywaists?

Hey ... I spank my kids and bark like a pitbull if they do something against the rules of the house ... sooo ... shrug.

Aren't you afraid your kids might grow up big and dysfunctional enough to cut you while you're asleep?

i am.

You should be free to raise your kids however you'd like to. Anything else is busllshit. Then they should be able to grow up and sue your ass if you were excessively abusive by definition of any jury.

Hey ... I spank my kids and bark like a pitbull if they do something against the rules of the house ... sooo ... shrug.
which is why im not having kids, i will spank some people damnit fuck all this new age hippy bullshit about not punishing kids, i got beat till i was in 4th grade about every damn day and at school to boot, i turned out fine, i hated my parents and former school, but those are for various other reasons. and now the schools cant touch the kid, parents are all admonished by hippy tree huggers if they spank their children. my damn brother is a god damn brat and never gets punished

As long as you are not violent and constant, abuse as a form of punishment can be fine.

But if you see that your child is umm disrespectable or whatever, on a daily basis. Send your kid to counselling so you don't one day snap and do something you'll regret.

Five across the eyes

You should be free to raise your kids however you'd like to. Anything else is busllshit. Then they should be able to grow up and sue your ass if you were excessively abusive by definition of any jury.

Oh none of that, my kids are going to take care of me in my old age: That's one of the beautiful things about abuse: Using it in operant conditioning.

My kids are gonna love my ass and like it.

As long as you are not violent and constant, abuse as a form of punishment can be fine.


Isn't abuse violent by definition?

spanking is the final solution for me.

My girl is only three and the tone still works.

She was only swatted once on the behind and that was because she kept sprinting for a very busy street. She would not have stopped. She had a diaper so it was more shocking the painful.

Needless to say she never did it again after that.

There are other ways to administer authority that don't require smacking them.

But every kid is different so there is no pure system for all.

My friend had the perfect child and then the demon of hell......

Disciplining kids is like walking a tight rope, escept before going on the tight rope you get blind folded and spun in circles before going out. That said, I don't have kids. I do remember getting spanked maybe twice as a child, and I think I turned out okay.

Aren't you afraid your kids might grow up big and dysfunctional enough to cut you while you're asleep?


Nope ... it's my job as the father to always be one step ahead of them. I generally only spank when they are disrespectful to their mother.

spanking is the final solution for me.

My girl is only three and the tone still works.

She was only swatted once on the behind and that was because she kept sprinting for a very busy street. She would not have stopped. She had a diaper so it was more shocking the painful.

Needless to say she never did it again after that.

There are other ways to administer authority that don't require smacking them.


i swear, if you pamper your kids like a pussy, how are they ever supposed to be able to beat up other kids?

Nope ... it's my job as the father to always be one step ahead of them. I generally only spank when they are disrespectful to their mother.

That's too much trouble; i figure i can lock them in their rooms or tie them up or something if i'm tired and they're a threat.

Here's the other problem: If you're constantly trying to be one step ahead of your kids, you're fighting a losing battle. Children are sneaky and cruel (those who honestly say otherwise are hopelessly naive, and about to learn a hard lesson), and ultimately if you have a job, they have way more free time than you do, since public school is so easy. The moral: Get your kids jobs if you want to outsmart them.

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg385h/habitual_lying.html
Right! I had to get up in the morning, at ten o'clock at night, 'alf an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill and pay mill-owner for permission to come to work, and when we got 'ome, our dad would kill us and dance about on our graves, singing Hallelujah!

Reading DailyRotten.Com, it seems there are dozens of little kids being beaten, slashed, raped, fed shit, confined for weeks/months/years in cupboards, etc. etc. by their parents every day in the US. Since it's so popular, you should probably get it protected by the constitution.

For me, abuse is excessive as far as discipling kids goes. Disciplining kids should be similar to disciplining military cadets or football players - not in the sense that they should be punished as a group for what on person did or that they should be forced to perform bizarrew and humiliating punishments, but that what parents use as punishment should be used also to improve a child's behavior as well as the child's strength in other areas.

Ha Ha Ha! Dragonkick to the face! Classic!

Seriously though, I think you can be tough with kids but just not violent.

Hey ... I spank my kids and bark like a pitbull if they do something against the rules of the house ... sooo ... shrug.

wow you must be a pretty shit parent then eh?

Here's the other problem: If you're constantly trying to be one step ahead of your kids, you're fighting a losing battle. Children are sneaky and cruel (those who honestly say otherwise are hopelessly naive, and about to learn a hard lesson), and ultimately if you have a job, they have way more free time than you do, since public school is so easy. The moral: Get your kids jobs if you want to outsmart them.

Children are mirror images of their parents. :rolleyes:

For me, abuse is excessive as far as discipling kids goes. Disciplining kids should be similar to disciplining military cadets or football players - not in the sense that they should be punished as a group for what on person did or that they should be forced to perform bizarrew and humiliating punishments, but that what parents use as punishment should be used also to improve a child's behavior as well as the child's strength in other areas.
tree hugger! tree hugger!
death to the hippy!

man fuck you

switch + kid = good kid

tree hugger! tree hugger!
death to the hippy!

man fuck you

switch + kid = good kid

'ey man, got a joint on you? I was thinking about going to a Grateful Dead concert later and then running around naked in protest of squirrels...

I'm a lucky man. I've got two beautiful and loving daughters. The eldest I smacked maybe three or four times, the youngest never, because I had learned something.
You say to the child 'if you don't stop......whatever.....by the time I count to three, I will smack you. You will have to do it, even if you're up on the roof, count to three and if the problem doesn't stop, you've got to get down and administer the slap. As I said, I had to do that only a few times with my oldest, like all kids, she learned quickly, she always held out to three.............and then.....stop.

Well it worked for me and they have no horrible memories of dad hitting or bullying them.

I'm a lucky man. I've got two beautiful and loving daughters. The eldest I smacked maybe three or four times, the youngest never, because I had learned something.
You say to the child 'if you don't stop......whatever.....by the time I count to three, I will smack you. You will have to do it, even if you're up on the roof, count to three and if the problem doesn't stop, you've got to get down and administer the slap. As I said, I had to do that only a few times with my oldest, like all kids, she learned quickly, she always held out to three.............and then.....stop.

Well it worked for me and they have no horrible memories of dad hitting or bullying them.

Of course, second child favoritism; don't you think that this administers an inferiority complex and sibling rivalry in the eldest if the younger is never punished?

Babies of the family can get away with murder...

*giving every last one of you the look*

a parent who knows what she is doing never has to spank a child. EVER

that said. if you DO spank your kid now and then for stuff that really needs emphasizing, its not going to ruin them for life.

having spanking be your main or ONLY form of dicipline isnt a good idea. by the time your kid is 4 he will no longer respond to it. he will grow up mean and sneaky, not good traits in an adult.

always remember you are not raising kids you are raising ADULTS and what you want to end up with is people who know how to live an adult life not someone who at 21 still reacts to the world as if they were 6 and afraid of making daddy mad at them.

Of course, second child favoritism; don't you think that this administers an inferiority complex and sibling rivalry in the eldest if the younger is never punished?

Babies of the family can get away with murder...

Bollocks. You don't read posts properly. I said I'd learned the lesson by the time the younger one came along. And you also missed the part (I thought it was quite clear myself) where I say that I never had to smack either of them because of the 1 2 3 rule.

Inferiority complex and sibling rivalry my fragrant arse.

You'd read better if you didn't assume so much from so little.

i swear, if you pamper your kids like a pussy, how are they ever supposed to be able to beat up other kids?

Nah they will end the conflict. When they are old enough a friend and I will teach them hand to hand! ;)

Bollocks. You don't read posts properly. I said I'd learned the lesson by the time the younger one came along. And you also missed the part (I thought it was quite clear myself) where I say that I never had to smack either of them because of the 1 2 3 rule.

Inferiority complex and sibling rivalry my fragrant arse.

You'd read better if you didn't assume so much from so little.

I still think it's wrong to experiment parenting methods on the older one so they can be the babysitter for the "real" kid.

Im not going to over qualify this by typing a lot of useless drivel.

I dont aprove of or condone in any sense the use of violence as a means to an end, that is a chicken shit low life uneducated way of dealing with problems. You dont gain respect through the installation of fear, you earn fear and nothing else, respect has to be earned not forced.

I agree to a certain extend with Ice Hockey Players, thats the way things went down in my family, and I came out pretty damned good on the other side. I can also tell you this, there were times when my parents broke down, and resorted to that, it made me want to do things to spite them, and it made them feel bad about themselves for having done it.

No one gains from violence.

So go ahead, and call me whatever hippie names you want, it will only prove my point... that those who condone this sort of behaviour, are those that are truly weak and intolerant.

I still think it's wrong to experiment parenting methods on the older one so they can be the babysitter for the "real" kid.


You just can't understand English can you?

You just can't understand English can you?

Maybe not, but I still think you should look at it from your kids' perspectives instead of just a learning experience for you. I'm not calling you a bad parent, I'm just sayin' my two cents.

And sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Tssk, tsk, Globes! Play nice with the other kiddies on the forum with different opinions!

Im not going to over qualify this by typing a lot of useless drivel.

I dont aprove of or condone in any sense the use of violence as a means to an end, that is a chicken shit low life uneducated way of dealing with problems. You dont gain respect through the installation of fear, you earn fear and nothing else, respect has to be earned not forced.

I agree to a certain extend with Ice Hockey Players, thats the way things went down in my family, and I came out pretty damned good on the other side. I can also tell you this, there were times when my parents broke down, and resorted to that, it made me want to do things to spite them, and it made them feel bad about themselves for having done it.

No one gains from violence.

So go ahead, and call me whatever hippie names you want, it will only prove my point... that those who condone this sort of behaviour, are those that are truly weak and intolerant.

I'm not so sure about you're being a hippy. But I'm pretty damn sure you aren't a parent of a child above the age of 7.

Maybe not, but I still think you should look at it from your kids' perspectives instead of just a learning experience for you. I'm not calling you a bad parent, I'm just sayin' my two cents.

And sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Tssk, tsk, Globes! Play nice with the other kiddies on the forum with different opinions!
indiru, are you saying you think a parent should repeat mistakes they made with the first child even though they now know that it IS a mistake? just because its not "fair" to the older kid to do a better job with the younger one?

no parent treats each child exactly the same, its not possible.

Abuse? Never. Physical reinforcement of parential authority? Absolutely necessary at times. There are times when a swat on the bottom is what is needed. It should be done before the parent has lost their composure but after the child has failed to respond to reasoned discipline and correction.

A family is not a democracy. A certain benevolent socialist despotism works best. :p

wow you must be a pretty shit parent then eh?

Newp ... better than most, actually.

The trouble is the parents who take the attitude that seemingly harsh discipline is a bad thing and raises children to be "sneaky and violent".

Not true. It teaches them reality. I tell my kid to clean up their room, they don't. After 30-45 minutes, I tell them again, only this time a little more direct and loudly. If the room is still not clean after an hour and a half, I start revoking privilege.

If, at any time during this process, the child becomes beligerent or openly defiant, a smacked bottom is in the works.

Just like life. If you steal a car, the cops/judge isn't going to look at you and say (in a lovey-wovey voice) "Now didn't you make a bad choice there, young man? Maybe somebody won't get their cookie at lunch today."

Nope ... they'll say "Grand Theft Auto. $2,000.00 fine and 2 years in State Jail. Next case!"

So ... shrug ... you make your choice. I, and my wife, choose to be the ones in control of the household. The kids have no authority or power and that's the way it should be. As a very famous person once said, "Ask a kid what it wants for dinner when it can pay for dinner."

The more you abuse them when they're young, the more they'll abuse you when you're old.

The more you abuse them when they're young, the more they'll abuse you when you're old.

Only if you're stupid and let your kids take care of you in your autumn years. Personally, I wouldn't do that to my kids.

We just did learning in Psychology, and how punishment works is interesting. There are better ways to train kids, really- punishment tends to only suppress a behavior, instead of making it actually go away. It works somewhat, but there are better ways to teach your kids (negative and positive reinforcement done on different scedules work better, but that's to reinforce good behavior, not to cut out bad behavior).

I mean, I suppose sometimes it's neccesary, but if you actually have to use physical punishment often you're probably failing as a parent, because they're continuing to do that thing anyway.

1. Never strike a child in the head or face
2. Never hit hard enough to leave a bruise
3. Never punch, pinch, bite or kick a child
4. Always resort to physical discipline/punishment as a last resort
5. Never spank a child out of anger
6. A good swat on the ass with the flat of your hand will get attention quick
7. BE CONSISTENT - don't make idle threats and fail to follow through with them. If you say "no cartoons all weekend" then make sure they get no cartoons all weekend, make 'em watch animal planet or discovery channel.
8. make sure they understand what the punishment is for, explain exactly what they did that was wrong and that resulted in the punishment.
9. Give frequent hugs and love and take time to listen to what they have to say.
10. Don't demean them by calling them "stupid" or "jerks" or the like, make sure they understand that you think what they did was dumb, but that you don't think they are dumb.

It's all a fine line and every kid is different, but give them the respect and approval they crave within consistently enforced guidelines and you'll get love, respect and honor back and a child you can trust.

Just my $0.02

*giving every last one of you the look*

a parent who knows what she is doing never has to spank a child. EVER

that said. if you DO spank your kid now and then for stuff that really needs emphasizing, its not going to ruin them for life.

having spanking be your main or ONLY form of dicipline isnt a good idea. by the time your kid is 4 he will no longer respond to it. he will grow up mean and sneaky, not good traits in an adult.

always remember you are not raising kids you are raising ADULTS and what you want to end up with is people who know how to live an adult life not someone who at 21 still reacts to the world as if they were 6 and afraid of making daddy mad at them.

*applause*

Treating children first and foremost as *people* and listening to their reasons and discussing things with them, along with allowing natural consequences (monitered so that those consequences are not actually harmful of course) teaches children to be much more responsible than installing fear through threats of violence. Of course this all takes a bit more work, but it is definitely worth it.

Any child abuse is too much child abuse.

I'd only use physical punishment (swatting on the arse or legs, nothing more) if the kid was doing something that was dangerous to themselves (running onto a road, for example). Mainly because in those cases, the association between the action and the fear isn't going to be overly detrimental. Anything other than that and I'd be more likely to just lecture them. I remember when I was a kid, I'd behave just to avoid the long, boring lectures I'd get if I was bad.

But then again, I usually get on with kids, because I don't do all that "Awww... what cute and innocent (but stupid) little angels" bullshit. Little kids aren't morons, and I know from experience that once they find an adult that thinks that young=stupid, they'll use it to their advantage as much as possible. I just treat them like anyone else, and trust them to ask for clarification if they don't know what I'm talking about.

I believe that you should be able to do small stuff such as spankings, and yelling, but any serious beating is too much.
By the way, I've taken a liking to your threads. I was gonna post under a puppet, but since I saw it was you, I changed my mind.

I'm all for a little physical punishment,

I was spanked as a kid and now, as much as I hated it then, I'm thankful my parents didn't put up with any of my shit. And in return, I would raise my kids the same way my parents raised me strict rules in the young years, liberal ones in the teen years.

There are times when I wish a parent would smack his/her child upside the head when they are acting like the little brats they are in public, especially when they are running around and screaming in a place that is not a child-play area, such as the coffee shop...or shoppign mall etc...

There are times when I wish a parent would smack his/her child upside the head when they are acting like the little brats they are in public, especially when they are running around and screaming in a place that is not a child-play area, such as the coffee shop...or shoppign mall etc...

Why not just wish they'd take the kid back out of the public arena, and not take them shopping/etc again until they think they'll behave better?

If any of my kids misbehave in public, I'll be duct-taping their mouth shut. If anyone glares at me, I'll offer to let them walk around with a screaming kid and get dirty looks from everyone.

spanking is the final solution for me.

My girl is only three and the tone still works.


With my mother, The Tone was the final solution. "Five across the eyes" was an "I know what you're thinking" warning. Spanking, up until her knee surgery, was "If I hadn't caught you before you actually did it, you'd be praying for this." Screaming, grounding, and throwing away my shit was a basic punishment for first term offenses, but she had mastered The Tone.

At 23, my sister still turns stiff as a board at the tone. Her husband, managing a construction company for decades and held up at gunpoint more than once, becomes pale at The Tone. My dad, Navy for 22 years, manages to look calm during, but goes to the bathroom to throw up after. The dog, with Arthritis in three legs, twice her healthy weight, and being 15 years old, has jumped off of furniture, onto hard tile, and immediately goes into a dead run from The Tone. She jumped over something for the first time in 2 years last time I heard The Voice. If you're impressed that The Tone still works at three, then you either have never used it when angry, or don't really use The Voice.


That said, I find fierce discipline at early ages taught me decency, something many people don't have. Manners, they were counter-productive to, as they bred a deep hatred for most authority and gave me the idea that treating peopl who can't do anything right as objects is perfectly acceptable. However, I'm still respectful of the objects and tend not to do any harm. A spanking, when they're young enough to be affected, is good. After that, instilling a fear of God in them seemed to have worked on me.

I HATE it when parents don't do anything in public places. I know that as the girl working the counter, it's my job to clean up, but I think the parents should help out some by requesting their or telling their children NOT to throw their food on the floor. I plan on telling my children, when I have some, not to do things that are detrimental to the job of the poor girl whose parents forced her into a job to keep her out of the house during the summer.

I HATE it when parents don't do anything in public places. I know that as the girl working the counter, it's my job to clean up, but I think the parents should help out some by requesting their or telling their children NOT to throw their food on the floor. I plan on telling my children, when I have some, not to do things that are detrimental to the job of the poor girl whose parents forced her into a job to keep her out of the house during the summer.
Said parents could ALSO set an example by cleaning up after themselves instead of leaving their crap like the pigs they are sometimes.

Thank you. I agree with you completely. And I wish more parents would clean up after themselves to set an example for their kids. It is not that difficult to gather the bits of paper and other trash onto a tray, carry the tray to the waste recepticle (trash can) and empty the contents of the tray into the can. Some parents and other adults, who have clearly never worked food service, fail to see the merit in this. I realized something else, as well: if the parent is unpleasant to the counter girl, the child will be unpleasant to the counter girl. The child really IS the mirror image of the parent.