NationStates Jolt Archive

here (http://family.msn.com/tool/article.aspx?dept=raising&sdept=rks&name=bc_111904_spiritualkid&GT1=5844)

well maybe not brainwashing, but this article honestly disgusted me.


"This is the perfect age to begin nurturing your child's spiritual side -- as sustenance for her soul, as a way of answering her cosmic questions, and as a means of strengthening her interpersonal skills. Every religion has some kind of belief embedded in it about loving your neighbor. And giving your child a foundation in faith will also give her something to fall back on in trying times later in life. "As recent events have shown us," says Neifert, "in times of crisis, people turn to their faith. It's a way to ground ourselves, and a way to interpret events that we don't understand.""

i see some sense of superiority there.

brainwashing 101

That's an article written specifically for MSN, right?

Seems pretty straight-forward to me. Relatively basic stuff any high school graduate should be able to understand about his/her own spirituality.

Why do you have a problem with it?

If you really want to get at it, any type of "training" that is done to a child is brainwashing. This could be telling them what is right and what is wrong. It could be telling them they have to learn to speak.

is eutrusca reading a different article than we are?

but this is brainwashing, nice step by step directions on how to indoctrinate your child into your belief system without question

Meh ... the first thing on the list is "Clarify your own beliefs."

Most people can't even get that far when it comes to the questions of a child. Parents generally will get flustered and simply end it with, "Because Jesus says so ... now go clean your room."

And, yet, many religious parents sit around and beg the question, "Why is my child atheist?!"

Also ... it does say ... "If you have a strong belief, share it. If not, it's okay to admit that there are some questions people spend their whole lives trying to figure out -- and this is one of them."

I wouldn't call that brainwashing, just making sure the kid understands that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Parents teach their kids what they believe. About spirituality and everything else. It is only brainwashing if questioning is discouraged and arriving at different conclusions is punished.

"As recent events have shown us," says Neifert, "in times of crisis, people turn to their faith. It's a way to ground ourselves, and a way to interpret events that we don't understand."

that's the bit i find funny: people thinking they are "grounding" themselves through communing with imaginary friends. :)

"As recent events have shown us," says Neifert, "in times of crisis, people turn to their faith. It's a way to ground ourselves, and a way to interpret events that we don't understand.""
Is anyone else tired of this endless 9/11 Christian propoganda?

Parents teach their kids what they believe. About spirituality and everything else. It is only brainwashing if questioning is discouraged and arriving at different conclusions is punished.
Exactly. There is basically nothing wrong with a parent wanting to teach her or his children right and wrong and other values. It would be great if every parent had sufficient comprehension to give their children permission to think at the same time, but that's a bit much to expect.

Is anyone else tired of this endless 9/11 Christian propoganda?
No. Is anyone else tired of this endless anti-spirituality cynicism?

look it is brainwashing because you are forcing beliefs onto a child.

No. Is anyone else tired of this endless anti-spirituality cynicism?
I'm not religious. I guess you could call that cynical.

I just don't care for the way the 9/11 tradgedy was twisted for religious and political reasons.

No. Is anyone else tired of this endless anti-spirituality cynicism?

Spirituality isn't the problem. Indoctrination is.

You can be a spiritual atheist, for crying out loud. I certainly am. I even thank my food for sustaining my body once in awhile, despite being quite aware that corn does not have a ghost that needs appeasing. I also meditate to 'feel' nature, but don't get tricked in to thinking there's magic involved.

It's when you start telling people that its better to answer hard questions with spirituality INSTEAD of logic and fact that the problems come up.

Religion has been used as a tool by the government since its invention.

Chinese emperors declared a mandate from heaven. Greek and Egytian leaders were considered to be on godlike status. All of Europe used christianity to enforce the feudal system. Hitler and southern slave owners appealed to christianity, Osama Bin Laden appeals to Islam.

So you might as well get used to religion being used to create herd mentality, I don't think the concept will be going anywhere for a long time.

look it is brainwashing because you are forcing beliefs onto a child.
Are you really listening to/reading what you just said? Maybe it will help if you define "forcing" and "beliefs." Every parent, I don't give a crap how "liberal" they claim to be, teaches their children values, standards, beliefs, etc. There's no way it can be avoided unless you want the child to grow up using grunts to communicate!

Are you really listening to/reading what you just said? Maybe it will help if you define "forcing" and "beliefs." Every parent, I don't give a crap how "liberal" they claim to be, teaches their children values, standards, beliefs, etc. There's no way it can be avoided unless you want the child to grow up using grunts to communicate!

Etrusca is right on this one.

If you want the government to butt out of morals, you are going to have to let the parents teach them.

Vittos has spoken, end of discussion.

I'm not religious. I guess you could call that cynical.

I just don't care for the way the 9/11 tradgedy was twisted for religious and political reasons.
Time to wake up from whatever sleep you've been in. People will use anything and everything in an attempt to butress their beliefs, whether political or religious, as well as attempting to make money from it.

I'm not religious either, but I try to be kind to those who feel the need to be so.

Etrusca is right on this one.

If you want the government to butt out of morals, you are going to have to let the parents teach them.

Vittos has spoken, end of discussion.
LOL! Um ... thanks ... I think. :)

Spirituality isn't the problem. Indoctrination is.

You can be a spiritual atheist, for crying out loud. I certainly am. I even thank my food for sustaining my body once in awhile, despite being quite aware that corn does not have a ghost that needs appeasing. I also meditate to 'feel' nature, but don't get tricked in to thinking there's magic involved.

It's when you start telling people that its better to answer hard questions with spirituality INSTEAD of logic and fact that the problems come up.
I agree. But surely you do understand that not everyone can think this way? There are a considerable number of people in the world, not just in America, who truly *need* a structured belief system ( call it religion ) into which they can slip like a suit of clothes. Most people are not capable of dealing directly with reality, or with logic and reason. I, for one, would much prefer that they adopt a relatively benign belief system rather than a violent or insane one.

Time to wake up from whatever sleep you've been in. People will use anything and everything in an attempt to butress their beliefs, whether political or religious, as well as attempting to make money from it.
Yes, that is quite true. I guess I expect too much from people.

I'm not religious either, but I try to be kind to those who feel the need to be so.
I may get snippy at times on this board but I do have Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim friends in real life and I am very respectful towards their beliefs.

In fact, all of us are probably much nicer people in real life then we let on in our heated debates. :p

LOL! Um ... thanks ... I think. :)

No thanks necessary.

This appears to me to be more of a situation of people not wanting people to teach their children christian beliefs. The article made it clear to point out that the parent should not make sound like Christianity explains everything.

First, they wanted to rail against government teaching morals, which I completely agree with, but now that they want to say that parents can't teach them either makes me feel that they may have a vendetta.

In fact, all of us are probably much nicer people in real life then we let on in our heated debates. :p

Not me, I'm an asshole, and I have dumbass friends.

Not me, I'm an asshole, and I have dumbass friends.
Has it ever occured to you that the two might be related? :D

Has it ever occured to you that the two might be related? :D

Not a doubt in my mind.

Ahh.... The old "passing down traditions" thing. The kid would do it anyway because they naturally look up to their parents and want to please them. Then again they might learn about their heritage which might be negative. Then again, it would suck if the kid was adopted.

look it is brainwashing because you are forcing beliefs onto a child.

Just wait until you have a kid and they start going on about Santa - even if they've never celebrated Christmas in their lives.

Kids have no brains. Humans are born with a drool gland and that's about it. It's up to the rest of the world to form the brain. You have a choice as a parent ... either you can do it or you can let school/television/friends do it.

No. Is anyone else tired of this endless anti-spirituality cynicism?

yes but not because its post 911 cristian evangelicalism

parents have a right to teach their children whatever they like, even if it's Heaven's Gatism for all I care.
I was raised Southern Baptist. I converted to Buddhism at 16. Now, at 28, I'm more of an Atheist than anything. Who cares what's out there? whatever *it* is, it doesn't give a shit about us roaches here on this planet.
And if it's a big guy in the sky, it would be necessary to abolish him.

But feel free to practice what you want and teach your kids what you choose.
Just don't try to enforce those beliefs in a public arena (like a science classroom) where other taxpayer's children attend.
Send them to a private school, you cheap bastard! God should help you find a way to afford it, just pray really hard.

But feel free to practice what you want and teach your kids what you choose.
Just don't try to enforce those beliefs in a public arena (like a science classroom) where other taxpayer's children attend.

I agree with this sentiment 100%.

I agree with this sentiment 100%.

What's funny is that these so-called conservatives don't realize how liberal allowing creationism in the science classroom really is! It's a major change, and by definition, not very conservative at all.

I just hope I can raise my children without bad influences like that until they can make their own decisions on religion.

Exactly. There is basically nothing wrong with a parent wanting to teach her or his children right and wrong and other values. It would be great if every parent had sufficient comprehension to give their children permission to think at the same time, but that's a bit much to expect.

If a person is not given permission to think and question, then teaching does equal brainwashing, regardless of age.