NationStates Jolt Archive

This is how I see it. We can go two ways, we can have more freedom (choices to make and we take the consequences of those actions good or bad) or Equality(where everyone gets the same amount and quality of everything as everyone else).

I'd rather have freedom. Because, if I work my ass off, I would like to see the fruits of my labor. Also, if someone who works not even half as much as I do, then I wouldn't want them to get the same amount as me because that would completely kill any reason for me to work hard. There are pro's and con's to each.

Which one would you choose, complete equality or being completey free?

This is how I see it. We can go two ways, we can have more freedom (choices to make and we take the consequences of those actions good or bad) or Equality(where everyone gets the same amount and quality of everything as everyone else).

I'd rather have freedom. Because, if I work my ass off, I would like to see the fruits of my labor. Also, if someone who works not even half as much as I do, then I wouldn't want them to get the same amount as me because that would completely kill any reason for me to work hard. There are pro's and con's to each.

Which one would you choose, complete equality or being completey free?

Being completely free would provide complete equality. Even if you wanted to, there is no way that you can eliminate personal differences, so you give everyone equal opportunity, and that comes with total freedom.

Ah, but some goofballs think that equality of outcome is what matters, no matter how stupid or slothful a person might be. Affirmative action is based on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. At least that's how they measure how "effective" it is.

Ah, but some goofballs think that equality of outcome is what matters, no matter how stupid or slothful a person might be. Affirmative action is based on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. At least that's how they measure how "effective" it is.

I don't agree with affirmative action, but that is not quite a true discription.

Affirmative action is more of an influx of education and money into black communities. It is not designed to help the individual, although it obviously does (which is why I disagree with it), but to help build the community.

I want the outcome that suits me best...

This is how I see it. We can go two ways, we can have more freedom (choices to make and we take the consequences of those actions good or bad) or Equality(where everyone gets the same amount and quality of everything as everyone else).

I'd rather have freedom. Because, if I work my ass off, I would like to see the fruits of my labor. Also, if someone who works not even half as much as I do, then I wouldn't want them to get the same amount as me because that would completely kill any reason for me to work hard. There are pro's and con's to each.

Which one would you choose, complete equality or being completey free?

Equality would not mean that everyone gets the same thing, regardless of how much work they do. In fact, that would be the exact opposite of equality.

Equality would mean that, if someone else worked the same job as you, and worked the same amount, they would get paid the same amount.

This is how I see it. We can go two ways, we can have more freedom (choices to make and we take the consequences of those actions good or bad) or Equality(where everyone gets the same amount and quality of everything as everyone else).

I'd rather have freedom. Because, if I work my ass off, I would like to see the fruits of my labor. Also, if someone who works not even half as much as I do, then I wouldn't want them to get the same amount as me because that would completely kill any reason for me to work hard. There are pro's and con's to each.

Which one would you choose, complete equality or being completey free?
I would have to say freedom, for the same reasons. I believe in earning what you get, and getting what you earn.

What you are talking about here needs some clarification. There can be no absolutes in terms of freedom or equality. Freedoms are necessarily curtailed by the idea that one person's freedom should not infringe upon another's. Equality is often taken to mean sameness, and we can not all be the same. Most of us do not strive for equality in this sense, we strive for equity, meaning fairness.

In any case, I understand what you mean by freedom, but I think there are some problems with it. First, you are assuming that everyone has equal opportunities, and therefore should receive out of the system what they put in. That would be a meritocracy, and it is a wonderful concept. Unfortunately, life is not equal, and neither is opportunity. You were born in a fairly wealthy country, and the opportunities available to you are not necessarily available to those who were not so lucky. As well, global liberalisation enforces inequality in the name of free enterprise, forcing nations to forgo social standards (such as labour and human rights standards) in favour of luring private enterprise with deregulation. The playing field is not level, and therefore your absolute freedom would mean only an absolute freedom of the already rich to pursue more riches.

This is how I see it. We can go two ways, we can have more freedom (choices to make and we take the consequences of those actions good or bad) or Equality(where everyone gets the same amount and quality of everything as everyone else).

I'd rather have freedom. Because, if I work my ass off, I would like to see the fruits of my labor. Also, if someone who works not even half as much as I do, then I wouldn't want them to get the same amount as me because that would completely kill any reason for me to work hard. There are pro's and con's to each.

Which one would you choose, complete equality or being completey free?

One day we will all see that equality is complete freedom. Until then there is Bob. Choose your channels in life well.

This is how I see it. We can go two ways, we can have more freedom (choices to make and we take the consequences of those actions good or bad) or Equality(where everyone gets the same amount and quality of everything as everyone else).

I'd rather have freedom. Because, if I work my ass off, I would like to see the fruits of my labor. Also, if someone who works not even half as much as I do, then I wouldn't want them to get the same amount as me because that would completely kill any reason for me to work hard. There are pro's and con's to each.

Which one would you choose, complete equality or being completey free?
Well if it was out of complete equality or being completely free, id have to choose equality. I'm actually not sure why - i can see, and kinda agree with your arguement about equality being a disincentive to work. But I just think that more equality would be, almost, morally right - better for the greater good - everyone is well off (or at least equal) instead of some having nothing and others having 'too much'. Its almost a deontological belief i suppose.

Freedom > Equality

This is how I see it. We can go two ways, we can have more freedom (choices to make and we take the consequences of those actions good or bad) or Equality(where everyone gets the same amount and quality of everything as everyone else).

I'd rather have freedom. Because, if I work my ass off, I would like to see the fruits of my labor. Also, if someone who works not even half as much as I do, then I wouldn't want them to get the same amount as me because that would completely kill any reason for me to work hard. There are pro's and con's to each.

Which one would you choose, complete equality or being completey free?

Equality. Or, more as Sinuhue described it, equity.

Perhaps because I have a very fundamentally different outlook. If when working I think primarily about myself, then I can work hard or slack off depending on what I want to gain from it. If I am working for community betterment, then I *always do my best* because then it affects everyone.

Also, at the extreme ends, disequity does not encourage doing anything to make the community better. Without hope of equity, there is no incentive to work for more (look at places where equity is near non-existant) and freedoms have been severly curtailed because the extreme lack of equity allows those with more to dictate what those without must do in order to recieve mere crumbs.

Freedom is far more important than equality. My ideal form of government is anarchy. But I believe that, in practise, the only way for everyone to be able to fully experience their freedom is through socio-economic equality.

Ah, but some goofballs think that equality of outcome is what matters, no matter how stupid or slothful a person might be. Affirmative action is based on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. At least that's how they measure how "effective" it is.

nah. affirmative action is more of a half-assed attempt to provide some sort of equal opportunity for the next generation. but it is taken to be a more 'politically viable' option than the large scale reconstruction of society necessary to even begin to pretend that there was equality of opportunity.