NationStates Jolt Archive

I hate it when I live in a nation where a man fit for working in an assembly line becomes thew most powerful man on earth... just cuz his daddy and his brother said so! ( 91... my I.q. is 147, *sigh)

Yeah, referring to a particularly stupid urban legend is a great way to show off your massive intellect. (http://snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm)

Yeah, referring to a particularly stupid urban legend is a great way to show off your massive intellect. (http://snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm)

Exactly.

your kidding, right? Urban Legend? multiple studies have shown that throughout his life span George has never achieved higher on his I.q. tests, its accurate within 5 points, must I cite sources? Meanwhile, Clinton has his I.q. somewhere in the 180s.... and we're stuck with a man almost as stupid as a dolphin

[M]ust I cite sources?Yes, you must; I already cited one which declares what you said earlier is bullshit and has the facts to prove it. You could excercise the genius in you by actually reading it.

your kidding, right? Urban Legend? multiple studies have shown that throughout his life span George has never achieved higher on his I.q. tests, its accurate within 5 points, must I cite sources? Meanwhile, Clinton has his I.q. somewhere in the 180s.... and we're stuck with a man almost as stupid as a dolphin

That's an insult to dolphins. When dolphins want to refer to one of their number as dumb, they call that dolphin 'George'.

It is kind of dissapointing that people like you actually believe this stuff. First of all, even if Bush ever did take an IQ test I doubt anyone knwos the result and you had better site the source if someone has. But if it says that Clinton has a 180 IQ then it must be wrong... you seem to know very little about how IQ is measured. I assume you took a ten-minute online test that told you what your IQ was and believed it? Real IQ tests take hours and are administered by professionals, and even then they only claim to be accurate within 15 points. I have never taken one; I too have taken online tests that put mine over 150, and I know they were BS.

your kidding, right? Urban Legend? multiple studies have shown that throughout his life span George has never achieved higher on his I.q. tests, its accurate within 5 points, must I cite sources? Meanwhile, Clinton has his I.q. somewhere in the 180s.... and we're stuck with a man almost as stupid as a dolphin
Read the Snopes article good sir, they explain it all.

Idiots, I have never taken an online I.q. test, they just want to give you high self esteem. there was a representative of sylvan learning center at my school asking 35 dollars for an I.q. test, so I took it. I had to place together puzzles and work with shapes to find my exact I.q. (accurate within 10 points) And I will cite my sources, thank you, just wait like 2 min.

Yeah, referring to a particularly stupid urban legend is a great way to show off your massive intellect. (http://snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm)

Well put.

Sigh...unfortunately these people are still allowed to vote.

Snopes.com is wonderful...
So how about a method of determining intelligence that they do release the scores for? GW got a 1200 on the SAT's- not incredible, but well above the average 1020. If anyone is going to bother answering honestly, what did y'all get on the SAT's?

Idiots, I have never taken an online I.q. test, they just want to give you high self esteem. there was a representative of sylvan learning center at my school asking 35 dollars for an I.q. test, so I took it. I had to place together puzzles and work with shapes to find my exact I.q. (accurate within 10 points) And I will cite my sources, thank you, just wait like 2 min.
So it sounds like you did take a real IQ test... though that score must be wrong. And lets hope for your sake that your source wasn't the "lovenstien institute"

your kidding, right? Urban Legend? multiple studies have shown that throughout his life span George has never achieved higher on his I.q. tests, its accurate within 5 points, must I cite sources? Meanwhile, Clinton has his I.q. somewhere in the 180s.... and we're stuck with a man almost as stupid as a dolphin
As you may have guessed by how quickly the snopes article came up, this myth is old news (though for some reason it's having a resurgance...)

May I suggest a different one? Like this one? (http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=election_2004&collectionid=BrainTenYrs&from=BA) How'd that happen?

I had to place together puzzles and work with shapes to find my exact I.q. (accurate within 10 points)Having taken an actual IQ test you do know that an IQ number doesn't mean a god damn thing unless you also know what scale it is and consequently what percentile that puts you in? And, even then, it would be the job of the person administering the test to tell you that the kind of IQ usually measured doesn't mean shit anyways.

SATs don't matter, He graduated from Yale with a C average, Yale! and besides, whatever he got on his SATs dont matter, he was average! a president should be a genius, like JFK!

So it sounds like you did take a real IQ test... though that score must be wrong. And lets hope for your sake that your source wasn't the "lovenstien institute"

Sylvan learning centers are franchise businesses that help k-12 kids with test prep and reading...I didn't know they administered IQ tests as well.

SATs don't matter, He graduated from Yale with a C average, Yale! and besides, whatever he got on his SATs dont matter, he was average! a president should be a genius, like JFK!
How about some sources as to the intel of the presidents?

And Yale is a pretty damn good school, if I remember correctly.

http://www.hypocrites.com/article15029.html
visit this site, and this one.... (wait till my next post)

I have never taken the SAT but I did take the ACT and recieved a 32. That is the equivalant of about a 1420-1450. I perosonally would feel comfortable if someone with killer intelectual ability, in all areas, including tests, was running the country.

SATs don't matter, He graduated from Yale with a C average, Yale! and besides, whatever he got on his SATs dont matter, he was average! a president should be a genius, like JFK!

Yeah, average for a Yale grad.

Talk to me after you graduate from an Ivy League uni.

I hate it when I live in a nation where a man fit for working in an assembly line becomes thew most powerful man on earth... just cuz his daddy and his brother said so! ( 91... my I.q. is 147, *sigh)Oh, my God. Shut up, retard.

Snopes.com is wonderful...
So how about a method of determining intelligence that they do release the scores for? GW got a 1200 on the SAT's- not incredible, but well above the average 1020. If anyone is going to bother answering honestly, what did y'all get on the SAT's?

Didn't take the SAT's, took the ACT and got a 31.

I have seen reports that on various military intelligence tests Bush scored higher than Kerry and had a score that was relative to around 125 IQ. I'm not sure maybe someone can find an article about it.

And Clinton had 182 IQ?! Bullshit, I don't think we have had a president with higher than a 150.

http://www.hypocrites.com/article15029.html
visit this site, and this one.... (wait till my next post)
Site discredited.

It reads: "Since 1973, the Lovenstein Institute has published its research to the educational community on each new president, which includes the famous "IQ" report among others. There have been twelve presidents over the past 60 years, from F.D. Roosevelt to G.W. Bush, who were rated based on scholarly achievements, writings that they produced without aid of staff, their ability to speak with clarity, and several other psychological factors, which were then scored using the Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking. "

The "Lovenstein Institute" is fake. As the snopes site clearly states.

http://www.hypocrites.com/article15029.html
visit this site, and this one.... (wait till my next post)In a report published Monday, the Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania, detailed its findings of a four-month study of the intelligence quotient of President George W. Bush.Oh yes, the Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, PA. Yes indeedio, that sure exists and is a respectable source of information! The text is an almost direct copy of the one you can find on the Snopes site. Only it seems you won't read it, because being proven wrong does sting a bit.

SATs don't matter, He graduated from Yale with a C average, Yale! and besides, whatever he got on his SATs dont matter, he was average! a president should be a genius, like JFK!
How does graduating from Yale make him dumb?
SAT's, like IQ tests, are sometimes given too much credence but they can 'matter' (though by dodging the question I assume you got less than a 1200)
Not everyone wants a genious president- I would think that any genious would realize what a crappy job President of the US is.

heres my next site that contains this info. http://expage.com/notowaroniraq14

Didn't take the SAT's, took the ACT and got a 31.

I have seen reports that on various military intelligence tests Bush scored higher than Kerry and had a score that was relative to around 125 IQ. I'm not sure maybe someone can find an article about it.

And Clinton had 182 IQ?! Bullshit, I don't think we have had a president with higher than a 150.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/898432.cms

heres my next site that contains this info. http://expage.com/notowaroniraq14Yes, it contains the same BS chain letter.

Look, idiot. There are a gazillion websites out there which claim to have hardcore porn tapes of Britney Spears. Just because several sites claim it's true doesn't mean it is. Do yourself a favor and read the Snopes article already.

heres my next site that contains this info. http://expage.com/notowaroniraq14I believe Scopes to a site that has absolutly no credibility.

http://www.hypocrites.com/article15029.html
visit this site, and this one.... (wait till my next post)

Sounded like a hell of an objective source so I checked it out. Alas, it only includes the same article that was shot down by the snopes website.

heres my next site that contains this info. http://expage.com/notowaroniraq14
Ok, Sotha dearest.

This site also cites the non-existent "Lovenstein Institute."

As shown here: "In a recent report the Lovenstein Institute *1 of Scranton, Pennsylvania detailed its findings of a four month study of the intelligence quotient of President George W. Bush. Since 1973, the Lovenstein Institute has published its research to the education community on each new president, which includes the famous "IQ" report among others. "

BS, is all I can say.

Once again, read the Snopes article.

heres my next site that contains this info. http://expage.com/notowaroniraq14
Dammit. This was dealt with in the second post-it's a link. Click it. I don't like Bush a great deal, but man-you are not helping. At this point, you're on your own.....

Considering that you didn't read the first reply, you'd see that snopes already fucking debunked your retarded site that claims "The Lovenstein Institute" showed that Bush has an IQ of 91.

Now shut up, stop making threads. Aside from that, your claim of "141 IQ!!!!11!1" is bullshit. If you really were that intelligent, you'd at least be able to READ. :rolleyes:

The exact same material copied again onto the site of someone who doesn't care to check the veracity of their materials. Perhaps I should found an institute like that Lovenstein one... bet I could get whatever I say into some newspapers :)

heres my next site that contains this info. http://expage.com/notowaroniraq14
Yet another website that quotes a non-existent Lovenstein institute!

For someone who claims to have a 147 IQ, you are pretty dumb.

Call back when you graduate from Yale, fly fighter jets for a living, and get an MBA from the very exclusive Harvard Business School.

Some people like to put the President's I.Q. lower to make themselves feel better that they didn't become president. Does somebody actually have to know all the words in the dictionary to become a leader? Thank goodness there is no tests to pass to become President of the United States. All you have to do is administer the will of the people. Does having a vast vocabulary promote good judgement?

Does having a vast vocabulary promote good judgement?Let's ask John Kerry.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/898432.cms

Thank you. An actual reliable site, too.

Uh... listen, as much as I hate and despise Bush and think he's a stupid dumbass, I don't think he got 91, that's like a retard or something. And I very much doubt Clinton got 180, because that's like nuclear physiscist smart, and as good as Clinton was... no.

Didn't take the SAT's, took the ACT and got a 31.

I have seen reports that on various military intelligence tests Bush scored higher than Kerry and had a score that was relative to around 125 IQ. I'm not sure maybe someone can find an article about it.

And Clinton had 182 IQ?! Bullshit, I don't think we have had a president with higher than a 150.
I'd be quite suprised if any were that high even. That said I think that if GW got a 1200 on his SAT's they must have been handing out bonus points on the mathematical :p

And Sotha Syl, please don't ruin the image of my favourite game ever by using that name to post non-sense.

Dear Lord, why must you pain me so? He got into Yale Because of Money! A C average man should never become resident

Yet another website that quotes a non-existent Lovenstein institute!

For someone who claims to have a 147 IQ, you are pretty dumb.

Call back when you graduate from Yale, fly fighter jets for a living, and get an MBA from the very exclusive Harvard Business School.
You might want to ask your dad and his friends for help.

Uh... listen, as much as I hate and despise Bush and think he's a stupid dumbass, I don't think he got 91, that's like a retard or something. And I very much doubt Clinton got 180, because that's like nuclear physiscist smart, and as good as Clinton was... no.
And the only one of the presidents who worked with nuclear anything was Jimmy Carter!

And Sotha Syl, please don't ruin the image of my favourite game ever by using that name to post non-sense.

Hear Hear!

Vivec applauds!

Oh FFS people, read the damn Snopes article. READ IT! READ IT AGAIN! KEEP READING IT UNTIL IT REALLY SINKS IN! (http://snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm)

Dear Lord, why must you pain me so? He got into Yale Because of Money! A C average man should never become resident
The question at hand is not why or how he got into Yale. The question at hand is his IQ and the legitimacy of your claim.

edit: You know who else had a C average? Every dems favorite republican, Colin Powell!

A president doesnt use words like "transshipment" and "Nucular" Oh, and lets not forget "misunderestimated"

SATs don't matter, He graduated from Yale with a C average, Yale! and besides, whatever he got on his SATs dont matter, he was average! a president should be a genius, like JFK!

Dude, go down to the book store, buy this book, its by a man named John Locke, its Called "An Essay Concerning Human Understanding." From their you will realize this:
Intelligence-Stuff you know.
Wisdom- The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight.

Know, figure this out, Intelligence, while important, isnt as essential as wisdom. JFK When handeling the Cuban Missle Crisis didnt use intelligence, he used Wisdom. He wasnt a super genius(intelligencewise), but he was pretty darn smart in terms of wisdom. And there you go buddy! Thats what makes a good leader.

im wondering how anyone can support this fool? if you support Gee Dubya you support racism/fascism/nazi's/NWO/and all together tyranny. All the shadow government (meaning the bush administration not the Gee Dubya himself) needed was a front man with some credentials. they could care less about his intellectual capacity (i must say, any animal is more intelligent than he) all they want is a face for their agenda. God doesn't like nazi's (christian god that is). so i would like a good reason as to why anyone likes this idiot. (unless you are a rich, money hungry, fear mongering nazi.)

"Know, figure this out, Intelligence, while important, isnt as essential as wisdom. JFK When handeling the Cuban Missle Crisis didnt use intelligence, he used Wisdom. He wasnt a super genius(intelligencewise), but he was pretty darn smart in terms of wisdom. And there you go buddy! Thats what makes a good leader."

ok now if only i could find any reminent of intelligence or even wisdom about gee Dubya. (no cowboy slang and sayings that don't make any sense do not count) And this guy only went to Yale so that he could be part of Skull and Bones. He has to carry on the Bush legacy of course, practicing satanic/masonic rituals and what not. well i guess i have pity for you. you probably watch the oreilly factor and any other nazi propaganda out there. you're a sheep if you think bush is a legit presodent. HE IS AN IDIOT.

A president doesnt use words like "transshipment" and "Nucular" Oh, and lets not forget "misunderestimated"
Dude, I'm telling you. Follow this link (http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=election_2004&collectionid=BrainTenYrs&from=BA)!!! It will entertain you!!! Please-this IQ thing is a dead end, let it go. I'm begging you, follow the link, watch the short.pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease.

A president doesnt use words like "transshipment" and "Nucular" Oh, and lets not forget "misunderestimated"
PLUS, no other president has had a calandar with a stupid grammatically non-sensical remark for every freakin day of the year. Actually, they're coming out with a second one, so TWO calandars. Now that's sad.

im wondering how anyone can support this fool? if you support Gee Dubya you support racism/fascism/nazi's/NWO/and all together tyranny. All the shadow government (meaning the bush administration not the Gee Dubya himself) needed was a front man with some credentials. they could care less about his intellectual capacity (i must say, any animal is more intelligent than he) all they want is a face for their agenda. God doesn't like nazi's (christian god that is). so i would like a good reason as to why anyone likes this idiot. (unless you are a rich, money hungry, fear mongering nazi.)
Are you the incarnate? MKULTRA reborn? Please, say yes!

A president doesnt use words like "transshipment" and "Nucular" Oh, and lets not forget "misunderestimated"

Read the article from the India Times, it states that the only race that Bush has lost was one in which he was mocked for having graduated from two ivy league schools.

Americans love an average joe, someone they can relate to. Bush is *smart* enough to realize that and plays to it.

fine, fine, I will let the I.q. thing go, but I stand by my previous statement that George Bush is an idiot, like his father, 150,000,000,000 spent in Iraq, thats not too smart!

im wondering how anyone can support this fool? if you support Gee Dubya you support racism/fascism/nazi's/NWO/and all together tyranny. All the shadow government (meaning the bush administration not the Gee Dubya himself) needed was a front man with some credentials. they could care less about his intellectual capacity (i must say, any animal is more intelligent than he) all they want is a face for their agenda. God doesn't like nazi's (christian god that is). so i would like a good reason as to why anyone likes this idiot. (unless you are a rich, money hungry, fear mongering nazi.)

Please dont act like your reasoning is the best reasoning, the ignorant arent on the other side, the ignorant are the people who think the ignorant our on the other side.(In other words, its all opinion my friend.)

im wondering how anyone can support this fool? if you support Gee Dubya you support racism/fascism/nazi's/NWO/and all together tyranny. All the shadow government (meaning the bush administration not the Gee Dubya himself) needed was a front man with some credentials. they could care less about his intellectual capacity (i must say, any animal is more intelligent than he) all they want is a face for their agenda. God doesn't like nazi's (christian god that is). so i would like a good reason as to why anyone likes this idiot. (unless you are a rich, money hungry, fear mongering nazi.)

How is George W. Bush a National Socialist?

Read the article from the India Times, it states that the only race that Bush has lost was one in which he was mocked for having graduated from two ivy league schools.

Americans love an average joe, someone they can relate to. Bush is *smart* enough to realize that and plays to it.
George Bush is underestimated as a politician. He knows tricks, and the "average Joe sixpack" is one he is expert at. One Kerry and Gore could have learned to use.

im wondering how anyone can support this fool? if you support Gee Dubya you support racism/fascism/nazi's/NWO/and all together tyranny. All the shadow government (meaning the bush administration not the Gee Dubya himself) needed was a front man with some credentials. they could care less about his intellectual capacity (i must say, any animal is more intelligent than he) all they want is a face for their agenda. God doesn't like nazi's (christian god that is). so i would like a good reason as to why anyone likes this idiot. (unless you are a rich, money hungry, fear mongering nazi.)
Do people who say things like this really believe what they are saying? It's almost as if they are trying to satirize the side they claim to be on. As I've said before, it's like they've had the part of their brain allows rationality and proportion hacked out with a chainsaw. I wish they could just live for one day in a real fascist country and realize what deluded brats they are...

fine, fine, I will let the I.q. thing go, but I stand by my previous statement that George Bush is an idiot, like his father, 150,000,000,000 spent in Iraq, thats not too smart!

Translation: I've lost the entire basis for starting this sad excuse of a thread. Look at how I've been thoroughly owned over the course of four pages.

Oh, and when we had the biggest surplus in American history, wat did old w do, made it into the biggest debt, in less than 4 yrs

Translation: I've lost the entire basis for starting this sad excuse of a thread. Look at how I've been thoroughly owned over the course of four pages.

LOL!

Translation: I've lost the entire basis for starting this sad excuse of a thread. Look at how I've been thoroughly owned over the course of four pages.You're giving him too much credit. He was thoroughly owned by the very first reply.

fine, fine, I will let the I.q. thing go, but I stand by my previous statement that George Bush is an idiot, like his father, 150,000,000,000 spent in Iraq, thats not too smart!
Without going into the merits or whether we should have deposed Saddam, do you have to be an idiot to make a bad decision? Does being smart mean you won't make bad decisions? Intelligence is not to be confused with wisdom.

Oh, and when we had the biggest surplus in American history, wat did old w do, made it into the biggest debt, in less than 4 yrs

Over taxation is never a good thing.....

well lets see.... his great grand daddy Prescott Bush Gave millions to I.G. Farben (nazi company in nazi germany taht helped hitler establish power and the reichstag) the bush family has many ties to nazi's. dont take my word for it though, do some research and see what you come up with, you might be suprised.

well lets see.... his great grand daddy Prescott Bush Gave millions to I.G. Farben (nazi company in nazi germany taht helped hitler establish power and the reichstag) the bush family has many ties to nazi's. dont take my word for it though, do some research and see what you come up with, you might be suprised.
No, why don't you do the research and post some links. This could be fun- you could make as big a fool of yourelf as Sotha did :)

Translation: I've lost the entire basis for starting this sad excuse of a thread. Look at how I've been thoroughly owned over the course of four pages.
Don't be a fucktard. He admited his mistake, that doesn't mean he has to start worshiping at the feet of King George. Admiting mistakes and moving on is not a conservative strong point, so I can see how you don't understand, but you can learn. Or you can go on being a complete fucktard, which of course makes you worse than him because you'll never admit your wrong no matter what evidence is presented.

well lets see.... his great grand daddy Prescott Bush Gave millions to I.G. Farben (nazi company in nazi germany taht helped hitler establish power and the reichstag) the bush family has many ties to nazi's. dont take my word for it though, do some research and see what you come up with, you might be suprised.

Bush family ties to German National Socialists (my version):

1922 -- P. Edward Bush II visits Germany. While making his way through a crowd, he bumps into a young boy named Issac. Issac is the best friend of the son of the doctor who's neighbor's dog once barked a guy who knows a guy who's ex-girlfriend's brother is rumored to have seen Eva Braun once in his lifetime. Thusly; George W. Bush is a Nazi.

well lets see.... his great grand daddy Prescott Bush Gave millions to I.G. Farben (nazi company in nazi germany taht helped hitler establish power and the reichstag) the bush family has many ties to nazi's. dont take my word for it though, do some research and see what you come up with, you might be suprised.

Thank you, thank you, it translates into bushs grandaddy gave money to Hitler, his father gave money to dadaam, and even a little six billion to Osama (or was that Reagan?) odd, oh well, either way, American funded Osama Bin Laden in the 1980s

Do people who say things like this really believe what they are saying? It's almost as if they are trying to satirize the side they claim to be on. As I've said before, it's like they've had the part of their brain allows rationality and proportion hacked out with a chainsaw. I wish they could just live for one day in a real fascist country and realize what deluded brats they are...

do you have to expeirence fascism to know what it is? YOU my friend are a sheep. have you ever read the Patriot act I and II (number 2 is now dubbed the Victory act... heh victory ) It seems to me you try to rationalize what these criminals are doing. man i dont understand why people do this. Open your damn eyes.

Don't be a fucktard. He admited his mistake, that doesn't mean he has to start worshiping at the feet of King George. Admiting mistakes and moving on is not a conservative strong point, so I can see how you don't understand, but you can learn. Or you can go on being a complete fucktard, which of course makes you worse than him because you'll never admit your wrong no matter what evidence is presented.

Calm down, tiger. I'm not a Bush supporter. But you can continue to run your mouth like an ignorant, illiterate child and curse to make you sound important, but it only makes you look worse and worse.

-and even a little six billion to Osama (or was that Reagan?) odd, oh well, either way, American funded Osama Bin Laden in the 1980sIt was a good idea at the time.

You can't even spell Sotha Sil right. Apparently you can't read either. The Snopes thing should have cleared this up.

Also, IQ isn't the thing Bush has a problem with. He may be intelligent but he is still a moron, wisdom-wise and whatnot.

Hey, jackass, Sotha Sil, (the clockwork town in the mournhold expansion) was taken, so I made my own version (wtf is wrong with you, attacking my name?)

Don't be a fucktard. He admited his mistake, that doesn't mean he has to start worshiping at the feet of King George. Admiting mistakes and moving on is not a conservative strong point, so I can see how you don't understand, but you can learn. Or you can go on being a complete fucktard, which of course makes you worse than him because you'll never admit your wrong no matter what evidence is presented.
He didn't really admit his mistake, he only stopped arguing about half an hour after everyone knew he was wrong. He is the one who will not admit he is wrong despite the evidence- we have yet to say anything blatantly stupid.

Thank you, thank you, it translates into bushs grandaddy gave money to Hitler, his father gave money to dadaam, and even a little six billion to Osama (or was that Reagan?) odd, oh well, either way, American funded Osama Bin Laden in the 1980s
Osama disagrees, but hey what does he know.



Q: Going back to the previous question of you and the CIA and American support for the war against the Soviets . . .

OBL: This is misinformation by the Americans. Every Muslim the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate towards Americans, Jews and Christians, this is part of our ideology.

Ever since I can recall I felt at war with the Americans and had feelings of animosity and hate towards them. So what they say happened between them and myself is out of the question.

It is only because the Americans were occupying the region that they threatened to use military force should the Soviets conduct such an intervention. So the Americans would be lying if they claim they had supported us. We challenge them to provide evidence supporting such claims.

Maybe he would challenge you, too.

do you have to expeirence fascism to know what it is? YOU my friend are a sheep. have you ever read the Patriot act I and II (number 2 is now dubbed the Victory act... heh victory ) It seems to me you try to rationalize what these criminals are doing. man i dont understand why people do this. Open your damn eyes.

Do you even know what fascism is, Alex Jones Junior? Please explain to me how the United States of America, under President George W. Bush, is a fascist nation.

IQ matters not if you have no common sense.

Don't be a fucktard. He admited his mistake, that doesn't mean he has to start worshiping at the feet of King George. Admiting mistakes and moving on is not a conservative strong point, so I can see how you don't understand, but you can learn. Or you can go on being a complete fucktard, which of course makes you worse than him because you'll never admit your wrong no matter what evidence is presented.One can dislike George W. Bush and the government run by him and yet not post silly urban legends and then, in the face of solid evidence, claim they are true against all reason. I should know.

And the only one of the presidents who worked with nuclear anything was Jimmy Carter!
And we all know how "smart" he is as a politician.

A president doesnt use words like "transshipment" and "Nucular" Oh, and lets not forget "misunderestimated"
and someone with a 141 IQ doesn't keep falling for the same hoax over and over...what's your point?

do you have to expeirence fascism to know what it is? YOU my friend are a sheep. have you ever read the Patriot act I and II (number 2 is now dubbed the Victory act... heh victory ) It seems to me you try to rationalize what these criminals are doing. man i dont understand why people do this. Open your damn eyes.
This is what I'm talking about when I say sense of proportion. Tell me one thing Bush has done that can remotely compare to Hitler and you might have a case- you know, talk about facts instead of dispensing insults. I have never met anyone who has known anyone who had the patriot act used against them, certainly not for unjsut reasons. In Nazi germany, people were killed en masse because of their race. n Germany, Hitler would not need legislation in order to do whatever he wanted to people. See a difference in proportion?

and someone with a 141 IQ doesn't keep falling for the same hoax over and over...what's your point?

my point is that I'm not the most powerful man in the world, he is, I can make my share of mistakes and admit them, he should be perfect.

Bush family ties to German National Socialists (my version):

1922 -- P. Edward Bush II visits Germany. While making his way through a crowd, he bumps into a young boy named Issac. Issac is the best friend of the son of the doctor who's neighbor's dog once barked a guy who knows a guy who's ex-girlfriend's brother is rumored to have seen Eva Braun once in his lifetime. Thusly; George W. Bush is a Nazi.
LOL like so many conspiracy theories....

my point is that I'm not the most powerful man in the world, he is, I can make my share of mistakes and admit them, he should be perfect.
And when you find a perfect person, please, let me know. I need to meet this chap.

my point is that I'm not the most powerful man in the world, he is, I can make my share of mistakes and admit them, he should be perfect.

Be perfect? Um..... Your kidding right? You do realize thats an impossability and also that in a non-perfect society, philosophically, its debatable that one can surpass the 'standard' of perfection... But whatever.

haha alex jones junior? i dis-like his tactics of fear and guilt. good information though (not for puppets, you will get upset) NEVER did i say america was a fascist nation. "we're the puppet people... put it on our tv its true!" yeah think about that for a minute. you're kidding yourself if you think for a second that the intentions of our leaders are in favor of us. whats more important, money or the well being of man? yeah im gonna go watch CNN now, mmmm propaganda!

This is what I'm talking about when I say sense of proportion. Tell me one thing Bush has done that can remotely compare to Hitler and you might have a case- you know, talk about facts instead of dispensing insults. I have never met anyone who has known anyone who had the patriot act used against them, certainly not for unjsut reasons. In Nazi germany, people were killed en masse because of their race. n Germany, Hitler would not need legislation in order to do whatever he wanted to people. See a difference in proportion?
have you ever heard of the burning of the reichstag building, and him blaming it on a certain group to raise support for making war on them, sounds like a paricular date in american history, what was that again, OH 911!

First two links I could find on a Google about debunking Bush family ties to the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei:

President Bush owes his family inheritance to Adolf Hitler, and his grandfather, Prescott Bush, helped finance the Nazi rise to power in Germany.

These stories had circulated for years but resurfaced on May 13, 2003, in the Cuban Communist Party newspaper Granma, headlined, "Bush Family Funded Adolf Hitler." As the Associated Press reports, Prescott had been on the board of Union Banking Corp., whose majority owner, the Thyssen family of Germany, indeed had funded the Nazis against a feared communist takeover of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. Family leader Fritz Thyssen broke with Hitler over the 1938 Kristallnacht pogrom against the Jews, was stripped of his citizenship and fortune, and was in a Nazi prison at the time the elder Bush sat on that board. There is no evidence that Prescott Bush, who owned just one share of Union Banking, had anything to do with the Thyssen political work in Germany.

Some critics go even further to accuse the president of having inherited ill-gotten profits from a Nazi slave-labor operation near the Auschwitz death camp in Poland. But the Polish company in which Prescott Bush had an interest, Silesian-American Corp., was stolen by the Nazis in 1939, the year before Auschwitz was built. Discussing this controversy, columnist Joe Conason of the New York Observer writes, "Henry Ford was a Nazi collaborator. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. was a Nazi sympathizer. Unless additional information emerges to indict him, Prescott Bush Sr. was neither. To misuse such terms for political advantage against his grandson is to trivialize very grave offenses."

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/07/19/Politics/Dispelling.Myths.About.George.Bush-607399.shtml

(scroll down)


Prescott Bush's Alleged Nazi "Ties"

Rumors about the alleged Nazi "ties" of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, have circulated widely through the Internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated.

Despite some early financial dealings between Prescott Bush and a Nazi industrialist named Fritz Thyssen (who was arrested by the Nazi regime in 1938 and imprisoned during the war), Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathizer.


http://www.adl.org/Internet_Rumors/prescott.htm

Among scores of others I can post, given the appropriate time....

This is what I'm talking about when I say sense of proportion. Tell me one thing Bush has done that can remotely compare to Hitler and you might have a case- you know, talk about facts instead of dispensing insults. I have never met anyone who has known anyone who had the patriot act used against them, certainly not for unjsut reasons. In Nazi germany, people were killed en masse because of their race. n Germany, Hitler would not need legislation in order to do whatever he wanted to people. See a difference in proportion?
I know someone who was wronged by the Patriot Act! He was going 75 on a 45 road, and the policeman pulled him over because he had a Kerry bumper sticker! (Or so he claims...)

Whether or not Bush has the IQ of a genius or of a 6 year old child, he still looks like a monkey and sucks at being the president

haha alex jones junior? i dis-like his tactics of fear and guilt. good information though (not for puppets, you will get upset) NEVER did i say america was a fascist nation. "we're the puppet people... put it on our tv its true!" yeah think about that for a minute. you're kidding yourself if you think for a second that the intentions of our leaders are in favor of us. whats more important, money or the well being of man? yeah im gonna go watch CNN now, mmmm propaganda!

Ummm... It never ever has been for the people, ever!
There is always something that is for the Politicians, sure, there may be alot of stuff just for the benefit of the people, but there is always something for the politicians, this is a known fact. Please dont state the Obvious.

Sometimes when looking through these forums, I notice things that other people don't. This is one of those times.
IQs in the 180s (for a President or anyone else) are absurdly rare. Childhood IQs of this range are not that uncommon because they are essentially quotients of 100 times mental age divided by real age. So a 6 year old with the vocabulary of an average 12 year old would have an IQ of 200 on a vocabulary based IQ test. For adults, this score is so rare that no one has been measured at it. Adult IQs are based on deviation from the norm so that IQ so that a considerable majority are placed within one standard deviant of the norm, and the vast majority are two standard deviants away. An IQ of 180 would place a person at the 99.999995 percentile (equivalent to 1 in 20 million intelligence, or one of the 15 smartest people in America).
The extremely high IQs reported for some of the Presidents are probably the result of an older scale based on SD 30 instead of SD 15, which translates IQs as twice as far from the norm as they are in the more modern measurements (180=140, 91=95.5). This still makes Bush rather dull in comparison with the rest of the Presidents, if these figures are accurate. I suspect that they are not because they are based purely on the Presidents' vocabulary usage and achievements and Bush does not have either of these much more than average citizens. However, IQ is not a measure of learnedness and achievement, but a measure of ability and potential to learn. I suspect that Bush's potential is above average, because he was able to graduate from Yale. However, I think that he is intentionally "dumbing down" his public words and actions because he is effectively a rich elitist who thinks that he needs to talk down to the common people. I detest him much more because of this than I would if I thought he were merely stupid.
Reference to my stats on IQ:
http://members.chello.nl/p.cooijmans/gliaweb/stats/iq_perc.html

Be perfect? Um..... Your kidding right? You do realize thats an impossability and also that in a non-perfect society, philosophically, its debatable that one can surpass the 'standard' of perfection... But whatever.


I didnt mean it literally, I meant he shouldn't make idiotic mistakes like making up new words.

IQ matters not if you have no common sense.
Perfect way to describe Clinton, Gore and Kerry!

haha alex jones junior? i dis-like his tactics of fear and guilt. good information though (not for puppets, you will get upset) NEVER did i say america was a fascist nation. "we're the puppet people... put it on our tv its true!" yeah think about that for a minute. you're kidding yourself if you think for a second that the intentions of our leaders are in favor of us. whats more important, money or the well being of man? yeah im gonna go watch CNN now, mmmm propaganda!
Just some cake for thought. How do you know YOU aren't the one who's the puppet?

have you ever heard of the burning of the reichstag building, and him blaming it on a certain group to raise support for making war on them, sounds like a paricular date in american history, what was that again, OH 911!

The Reichstag was burnt by the National Socialists in an attempt to sway the population against the Jews. It worked.

The events of September 11th, 2001, were a well-orchastrated plan that had been formed for over a decade and culminated in four planes being hijacked. Two of the planes slammed into both towers of the World Trade Center. The third hit the Pentagon. The fourth was intended to strike the White House, but was downed by the bravery of the civillians on board.

If you dare to claim that the United States planned and carried 9/11 in an attempt to sway the American public against the Arabs or Islamists, than I pity you and your blind faith to nutcase conspiracy theorists.

my point is that I'm not the most powerful man in the world, he is, I can make my share of mistakes and admit them, he should be perfect.
Only one can be perfect...and here's a hint, it isn't you, or me or GW Bush. His Name does start with G, though.

hey guys, yummy debate, but I have to go, chicken noodle soup for dinner, mmmmm, its 535 pm, time for dinner (mountain time of course) I hope you continue this on, jesus i didnt think this would grow more tha 2 pages, thanx all! :)

Whether or not Bush has the IQ of a genius or of a 6 year old child, he still looks like a monkey and sucks at being the president
Wow, now there is a typical Lib argument! Maybe Sotha Syl will accredit you with a 180 IQ?

klington, i dont understand your reasoning. you are definately allowed your own opinions (well not exactly according to the patriot act) but i still dont see how you can sit there and try to take everything i say and turn it around so you look intelligent, correct, oh and like any other republican(i can name a few like that. Rush limbaugh, bill oreilly, dick cheney.... it goes on and on) im not sure if you are like any of those people, but damn, you sure do act like them.

haha alex jones junior? i dis-like his tactics of fear and guilt. good information though (not for puppets, you will get upset) NEVER did i say america was a fascist nation. "we're the puppet people... put it on our tv its true!" yeah think about that for a minute. you're kidding yourself if you think for a second that the intentions of our leaders are in favor of us. whats more important, money or the well being of man? yeah im gonna go watch CNN now, mmmm propaganda!

My God, I'm dealing with a pyschotic here. You're as crazier as Jan Spears on DOOL. Are you going to start talking to dolls? [/inside joke]

No, the actions of our leaders are never to benifit the public. However, I'm rational enough to realize that we are not living in a totalitarian nation nor have we. Moreover, I despise the Communist News Network.

One can dislike George W. Bush and the government run by him and yet not post silly urban legends and then, in the face of solid evidence, claim they are true against all reason. I should know.
I agree, and in fact begged him not to. However, when he backs of the ridiculous claim you can either acknowledge that and be civil or you can continue to dig into him like a playground bully, making them fucktards.

Not being Bush supporters doesn't immunize them from being a fucktard. He backed off the claim, he knew he was beat. Some loser fucktard decided to dance on his grave. Fucktard is as fucktard does. Those guys who kept swinging after the bell, fucktards.

And I don't know what world they live in where swearing is used to make people seem important....interesting.....

A dumbarse leader, leading an country of people sick in the head = an army of zombies :sniper:

The Reichstag was burnt by the National Socialists in an attempt to sway the population against the Jews. It worked.

The events of September 11th, 2001, were a well-orchastrated plan that had been formed for over a decade and culminated in four planes being hijacked. Two of the planes slammed into both towers of the World Trade Center. The third hit the Pentagon. The fourth was intended to strike the White House, but was downed by the bravery of the civillians on board.

If you dare to claim that the United States planned and carried 9/11 in an attempt to sway the American public against the Arabs or Islamists, than I pity you and your blind faith to nutcase conspiracy theorists.

sorry, saw this and got pissed, OF COURSE AMERICA DIDNT BURN THE TWIN TOWERS I was illustrating a point that george used it against Midddle-easterns whether he knew or not.

I'll just go on my merry way now, and say: "I wish Bill Clinton was President."

Because, he is my favorite President of my lifetime.

The Reichstag was burnt by the National Socialists in an attempt to sway the population against the Jews. It worked.

The events of September 11th, 2001, were a well-orchastrated plan that had been formed for over a decade and culminated in four planes being hijacked. Two of the planes slammed into both towers of the World Trade Center. The third hit the Pentagon. The fourth was intended to strike the White House, but was downed by the bravery of the civillians on board.

If you dare to claim that the United States planned and carried 9/11 in an attempt to sway the American public against the Arabs or Islamists, than I pity you and your blind faith to nutcase conspiracy theorists.
clearly the Bush administration had the most to gain from 911 and for you to try to assert otherwise is whats nutty-the PNAC manifesto itself says it needed a 911 type scenario to enact its agenda

Sometimes when looking through these forums, I notice things that other people don't. This is one of those times.Amusing, then, thet you did not notice these things:
1) The IQ figures for the presidents were already thoroughly debunked -- there was no truth to them at all.
2) There exists a number of IQ scales which have different standard deviations. What you linked is one of them. On some scales, the 98th percentile is at 148. On some scales, it's even higher.

klington, i dont understand your reasoning. you are definately allowed your own opinions (well not exactly according to the patriot act) but i still dont see how you can sit there and try to take everything i say and turn it around so you look intelligent, correct, oh and like any other republican(i can name a few like that. Rush limbaugh, bill oreilly, dick cheney.... it goes on and on) im not sure if you are like any of those people, but damn, you sure do act like them.

Um... No, Im very big on Philosophy, so thats where my reasoning comes from, if you want a long-assed contempletive paragraph on how one living in a non-perfect world could be above the 'standard' of perfect in a perfect world, I will right it out. But be prepared to be confused.

Whether or not Bush has the IQ of a genius or of a 6 year old child, he still looks like a monkey and sucks at being the president

Yet he's a better President than John 'Herman Munster' Kerry could have dreamed of being......while a statist, President Bush is not a tenth of the anti-freedom socialist that Kerry is.....

Operation Northwood is fairly intriguing also if you think 9/11 was orchestrated.

hey guys, yummy debate, but I have to go, chicken noodle soup for dinner, mmmmm, its 535 pm, time for dinner (mountain time of course) I hope you continue this on, jesus i didnt think this would grow more tha 2 pages, thanx all! :)
Maybe he isn't an idiot... chicken soup rules :)

Wow, now there is a typical Lib argument! Maybe Sotha Syl will accredit you with a 180 IQ?

That was not a typical "Lib argument", that was a typical IDIOT argument, please don't equate the two, as I have heard idiotic arguments on both sides.

clearly the Bush administration had the most to gain from 911 and for you to try to assert otherwise is whats nutty-the PNAC manifesto itself says it needed a 911 type scenario to enact its agenda

Oh my God, they're multiplying. They're like bunnies, but their homepages are set to prisonplanet.tv....

What did the President have to gain from September 11th? On what grounds would he knowingly murder three thousand of his fellow countrymen? That's as absurd as saying that Socialist Roosevelt planned Pearl Harbor.....

Yet he's a better President than John 'Herman Munster' Kerry could have dreamed of being......while a statist, President Bush is not a tenth of the anti-freedom socialist that Kerry is.....

See, see!!!

I told you, both sides!!

clearly the Bush administration had the most to gain from 911 and for you to try to assert otherwise is whats nutty-the PNAC manifesto itself says it needed a 911 type scenario to enact its agenda
Care to translate this for us people in the rational world, where we need evidence to support wild claims? Like, what is the 'PNAC manifesto'?

Yet he's a better President than John 'Herman Munster' Kerry could have dreamed of being......while a statist, President Bush is not a tenth of the anti-freedom socialist that Kerry is.....
Bush is Americas first Dictator who wants to expand upon his first anti-freedom Patriot Act with an even more expansionistically abusive one. Kerry was the democratic antidote to Bushs police state extremism

Oh my God, they're multiplying. They're like bunnies, but their homepages are set to prisonplanet.tv....

What did the President have to gain from September 11th? On what grounds would he knowingly murder three thousand of his fellow countrymen? That's as absurd as saying that Socialist Roosevelt planned Pearl Harbor.....

He was telling the truth about the PNAC document, it does express a need for another Pearl Harbor. Read here (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf)

Oh my God, they're multiplying. They're like bunnies, but their homepages are set to prisonplanet.tv....

What did the President have to gain from September 11th? On what grounds would he knowingly murder three thousand of his fellow countrymen? That's as absurd as saying that Socialist Roosevelt planned Pearl Harbor.....
FDR (AKA the saviour of the middle class) DID allow pearl harbor to happen the same way Bush allowed 911 for his own reasons

klington, i dont understand your reasoning. you are definately allowed your own opinions (well not exactly according to the patriot act) but i still dont see how you can sit there and try to take everything i say and turn it around so you look intelligent, correct, oh and like any other republican(i can name a few like that. Rush limbaugh, bill oreilly, dick cheney.... it goes on and on) im not sure if you are like any of those people, but damn, you sure do act like them.
Do you think I'm just like Rush and O'Reilly? Please say yes ;)

http://www.hypocrites.com/article15029.html
visit this site, and this one.... (wait till my next post)


Um, yeah. You've already been informed that the 'study' you quoted was complete BS, so you post a link to the same thing again, as though that will somehow make it true. Talk about dumb...

PS - It doesn't help your image when you name yourself after a fictional character and misspell the name. :rolleyes:

Care to translate this for us people in the rational world, where we need evidence to support wild claims? Like, what is the 'PNAC manifesto'?
Partnership for a New American Century--I think thats what it stands for...

Bush is Americas first Dictator who wants to expand upon his first anti-freedom Patriot Act with an even more expansionistically abusive one. Kerry was the democratic antidote to Bushs police state extremism

How is President Bush a dictator? While he does support the statist PATRIOT Act, he's far from a dictator. If the President was a dictator, no American Leftist (or American Rightist) would be having this discussion right now. He'd have his Gestapo bust down our doors and arrest us all. Unless he's the most benevolent (sp?) tyrant in world history. A dictator is one who violates one's rights. Tell me, what rights have *you* specifically lost under the Bush Administration?

John Forbes Kerry is statist socialist scum. He's an anti-freedom Cultural Marxist. God save us if he ever does become President.....

He was telling the truth about the PNAC document, it does express a need for another Pearl Harbor. Read here (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf)
thanks for posting that Vittos

Care to translate this for us people in the rational world, where we need evidence to support wild claims? Like, what is the 'PNAC manifesto'?
The PNAC statement of principles is here : http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm


My favorite :

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

It really goes against what most people think Neo-Cons are for.

thanks for posting that Vittos

I have posted it before.

I am amazed how few people have read it, seeing as it is the most important American political document of the last 10-15 years.

Bush is Americas first Dictator who wants to expand upon his first anti-freedom Patriot Act with an even more expansionistically abusive one. Kerry was the democratic antidote to Bushs police state extremism
Do you know what a dictator is? An unelected autocrat with the power to do whatever he wants, with no checks to power like courts and a legislature? Please explain how Bush fits the definition of a 'dictator'. If he really had dictatorial powers, he might do things like... keep people like you from speaking out against him. What is always most amusing about conspiracy theorists is how they think someone (aliens, corporations, neocons) has complete control over the world and for some reason decide not to silence the lone vioces 'exposing' their evil plots.

Amusing, then, thet you did not notice these things:
Originally posted by Erehwon Forest:
1) The IQ figures for the presidents were already thoroughly debunked -- there was no truth to them at all.
2) There exists a number of IQ scales which have different standard deviations. What you linked is one of them. On some scales, the 98th percentile is at 148. On some scales, it's even higher.

Yes. I did notice those things. I wanted to attack the figures from a different perspective. You're right, though, that many IQ scale have different SDs. I used this one, because it is the one with which I (and I assume many others) am familiar. I did not want anyone who usually hears IQs in SD 15 scale to think that many of our recent presidents have been one-in-a-million geniuses. So I noted the fact that these stats are probably not on the SD 15 scale. I was saying, basically, that other scales do exist (your second point).

FDR (AKA the saviour of the middle class) DID allow pearl harbor to happen the same way Bush allowed 911 for his own reasons

My God, he/she has lost it. If you believe that Premier Roosevelt (AKA socialist slime) allowed Pearl Harbor, do you also believe in the Philadelphia Project? What about the Roswell Cover-Up? La Chupacabra? The Attack of the Fifty Foot Woman?

Moreover, if FDR did allow Pearl Harbor to be attacked, than he was responsible for the deaths of 2,200+ Americans. Yet you praise him? Hmm....

First two links I could find on a Google about debunking Bush family ties to the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei:

The Guardian Weekly ran an article discussing the connections a few weeks ago. Now, much as I dislike Bush and would love such ammunition, the evidence was so incredibly flimsy I didn't even bother reading the article in any depth. As far as I could tell, the argument was:

- Bush has corporate dealings with German company
- Company later goes off and does bad things
- 50 years later, someone tries to suggest Bush should have had been able to read the future.

How is President Bush a dictator? While he does support the statist PATRIOT Act, he's far from a dictator. If the President was a dictator, no American Leftist (or American Rightist) would be having this discussion right now. He'd have his Gestapo bust down our doors and arrest us all. Unless he's the most benevolent (sp?) tyrant in world history. A dictator is one who violates one's rights. Tell me, what rights have *you* specifically lost under the Bush Administration?

John Forbes Kerry is statist socialist scum. He's an anti-freedom Cultural Marxist. God save us if he ever does become President.....
John Kerry wouldve saved us from Bushs marxist-corporate terrorist agenda of destabilizing the world for the greed of a microscopic few

Do you know what a dictator is? An unelected autocrat with the power to do whatever he wants, with no checks to power like courts and a legislature?

Err...slight correction....Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein, two of history's worst dictators, were both elected. A dictator does not necessarly seize power in a coup de'tat.....

John Forbes Kerry is statist socialist scum. He's an anti-freedom Cultural Marxist. God save us if he ever does become President.....
You speak intelligently elsewhere, but come on. I think Kerry would make a worse president than Bush; Kerry is a statist socialist, but 'cultural marxist' is a bit of a stretch and I certainly don't think he is 'anti-freedom' or 'scum'.

John Kerry wouldve saved us from Bushs marxist-corporate terrorist agenda of destabilizing the world for the greed of a microscopic few

Pardon my French-Swahili when I ask: What the flying fuck is a "Marxist-corporate terrorist adgenda"?

How can you have two things (Marxism and corporations) that fly in the face of one another as sworn enemies co-exist in the same sentence like that?

Pardon my French-Swahili when I ask: What the flying fuck is a "Marxist-corporate terrorist adgenda"?

How can you have two things (Marxism and corporations) that fly in the face of one another as sworn enemies co-exist in the same sentence like that?

Voodoo.

John Kerry wouldve saved us from Bushs marxist-corporate terrorist agenda of destabilizing the world for the greed of a microscopic few

Marxist? Are you politically sane? I have Marxs Communist Manifesto sitting on my desk, Marxism was supposed to eliminate the classes and make true equality, when made into a lighter form of communism, socialism(the capitalist equivlent is controlled capitalism), classes are eliminated and rewards are present for good work. Bush isnt a Marxist, and Marxism isnt bad, Communism is generally bad(considering that not all Communist Nations are totalitarian, it is possible to have a commie govement and still keep democracy.). Marxism was the idea to try and help people not be poor and make people equal on a class scale. It was a good idea, its just humans are power-hungry and greedy and generally make this idea impossible to achieve.

marxist-corporate terrorist agenda
LOL... it is almost nice to have people like you around. You're like court buffoons... tell me, what exactly is a marxist corporation? Do these marxist corporations often engage in terrorism?

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~jlin/signs/usa/Michigan/Red_Arrow.jpg

My God, he/she has lost it. If you believe that Premier Roosevelt (AKA socialist slime) allowed Pearl Harbor, do you also believe in the Philadelphia Project? What about the Roswell Cover-Up? La Chupacabra? The Attack of the Fifty Foot Woman?

Moreover, if FDR did allow Pearl Harbor to be attacked, than he was responsible for the deaths of 2,200+ Americans. Yet you praise him? Hmm....
FDR atoned for all his sins and was beloved by the American people and re-elected with HUGE margins because he opposed the class warfare policies of corporate communists in America

You speak intelligently elsewhere, but come on. I think Kerry would make a worse president than Bush; Kerry is a statist socialist, but 'cultural marxist' is a bit of a stretch and I certainly don't think he is 'anti-freedom' or 'scum'.

Are you aware of the definition of a Cultural Marxist, Mantheran? If not, I strongly suggest you read this article http://www.academia.org/lectures/lind1.html

John F. Kerry is anti-freedom because of his legislative actions to deny Americans of their Constitutional right to bear arms.....and "scum" is attached to "socialist" forming "socialist scum" as one solid insult...:)

Err...slight correction....Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein, two of history's worst dictators, were both elected. A dictator does not necessarly seize power in a coup de'tat.....
Saddam wasn't elected, unless you count his 99.9% performance in 2003 as an election.

That was not a typical "Lib argument", that was a typical IDIOT argument, please don't equate the two, as I have heard idiotic arguments on both sides.
Point well taken.

Do you know what a dictator is? An unelected autocrat with the power to do whatever he wants, with no checks to power like courts and a legislature? Please explain how Bush fits the definition of a 'dictator'. If he really had dictatorial powers, he might do things like... keep people like you from speaking out against him. What is always most amusing about conspiracy theorists is how they think someone (aliens, corporations, neocons) has complete control over the world and for some reason decide not to silence the lone vioces 'exposing' their evil plots.
well Bush was never elected and Bush operates with no checks or balances at all and Bush punishes dissent and rewards people who lie for him and wraps his entire govt in secrecy and Bush steals rights in the guize of providing false security- so how is he not a Dictator?

FDR atoned for all his sins and was beloved by the American people and re-elected with HUGE margins because he opposed the class warfare policies of corporate communists in America

And tried to stuff the Supreme Court with socialist judges....and defied the tradition of two....remember the saying "Washington didn't, Lincoln couldn't, Roosevelt shouldn't"?

FDR is the father of the American welfare state that we live in now. He is the collective creator of the belief that the government should do everything for you while you assume no personal responsibility for yourself or your actions. FDR built roads that led nowhere (literally and metaphorically).

Seriously, read the PNAC document I linked.

My favorite part:

In a section titled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", and concerning a revamping of the military through testing in legitimate battlefield operations:

"A transformation strategy that solely
pursued capabilities for projecting force
from the United States, for example, and
sacrificed forward basing and presence,
would be at odds with larger American
policy goals and would trouble American
allies.
Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."

And tried to stuff the Supreme Court with socialist judges....and defied the tradition of two....remember the saying "Washington didn't, Lincoln couldn't, Roosevelt shouldn't"?

FDR is the father of the American welfare state that we live in now. He is the collective creator of the belief that the government should do everything for you while you assume no personal responsibility for yourself or your actions. FDR built roads that led nowhere (literally and metaphorically).

Well his welfare was an ok idea, he carried it too far though. I dont want to explain what he shoulda done though, its too long to explain.

Pardon my French-Swahili when I ask: What the flying fuck is a "Marxist-corporate terrorist adgenda"?

How can you have two things (Marxism and corporations) that fly in the face of one another as sworn enemies co-exist in the same sentence like that?
theyre only sworn enemies on the surface but in reality the corporate elite have the exact same lust for total control that the communists wanted

well Bush was never elected and Bush operates with no checks or balances at all and Bush punishes dissent and rewards people who lie for him and wraps his entire govt in secrecy and Bush steals rights in the guize of providing false security- so how is he not a Dictator?
Seriously, have you ever been diagnosed for paranoia? You might want to look into it. I promise the psychologists aren't being used by Bush to brainwash you.

Marxist? Are you politically sane? I have Marxs Communist Manifesto sitting on my desk, Marxism was supposed to eliminate the classes and make true equality, when made into a lighter form of communism, socialism(the capitalist equivlent is controlled capitalism), classes are eliminated and rewards are present for good work. Bush isnt a Marxist, and Marxism isnt bad, Communism is generally bad(considering that not all Communist Nations are totalitarian, it is possible to have a commie govement and still keep democracy.). Marxism was the idea to try and help people not be poor and make people equal on a class scale. It was a good idea, its just humans are power-hungry and greedy and generally make this idea impossible to achieve.
it started out that way true but over time the lines get blurred

well Bush was never elected and Bush operates with no checks or balances at all and Bush punishes dissent and rewards people who lie for him and wraps his entire govt in secrecy- so how is he not a Dictator?

Really? Never elected....hmm.....George W. Bush was elected in 2000 by winning 271 Electoral Votes to Al Gore's 266. He was re-elected in 2004, tallying a whopping 51% and winning 286 EV's over Kerry's 252. He was elected; get over it. The United States elects our Presidents with the Electoral College; not the popular vote.

How does he not have checks on his power to balance the executive branch out with the other two? How does he wrap his government in secrecy? How does he punish people and for what? How does he reward liars?

I didnt mean it literally, I meant he shouldn't make idiotic mistakes like making up new words.

I'm sure he chortles every time he does that. :D

LOL... it is almost nice to have people like you around. You're like court buffoons... tell me, what exactly is a marxist corporation? Do these marxist corporations often engage in terrorism?
yes they do engage in terrorism and a corporate marxist is anyone who puts the interest of fortune 500 parasites above the interests of the American people

it started out that way true but over time the lines get blurred

Um... Whys that? Its because man is power hungry and greedy, dont call them marxists, marx was just trying to make a good idea for society, call them communists.

"A transformation strategy that solely
pursued capabilities for projecting force
from the United States, for example, and
sacrificed forward basing and presence,
would be at odds with larger American
policy goals and would trouble American
allies.
Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."
The people who wrote this must have been intelligent and forward-thinking. Just because someone managed to predict the future correctly doesn't mean they made the future happen. Unless... Ms. Cleo is really a rebel diety! :)

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~jlin/signs/usa/Michigan/Red_Arrow.jpg
LOL where is this highway located?

yes they do engage in terrorism and a corporate marxist is anyone who puts the interest of fortune 500 parasites above the interests of the American people
Right... how are Fortune 500 people marxists?

Are you aware of the definition of a Cultural Marxist, Mantheran? If not, I strongly suggest you read this article http://www.academia.org/lectures/lind1.html

John F. Kerry is anti-freedom because of his legislative actions to deny Americans of their Constitutional right to bear arms.....and "scum" is attached to "socialist" forming "socialist scum" as one solid insult...:)
right there you just spread a corporate marxist lie--Kerry is a pro-gun hunter

To the original idea, whether or not W is stupid I find the question obvious, but lets consider some "possible" facts:

He got a low score on an iq test:
This may or may not be true, but also the iq test is not a perfect measure
of intelligence.
He got an average score on an SAT:
This is true, and I outscored him...in seventh grade, but once again the SAT
is not a perfect measure of intelligence.
He constantly makes up words:
So what. This is...er...creative. *only a littttlllleee bit of sarcasm*

But I don't judge him buy is scores, or vocabulary. I judge him by his actions, and I do not find his actions either smart or morally correct.

I stress this is my opinion, but I believe there are many others who would agree.

And tried to stuff the Supreme Court with socialist judges....and defied the tradition of two....remember the saying "Washington didn't, Lincoln couldn't, Roosevelt shouldn't"?

FDR is the father of the American welfare state that we live in now. He is the collective creator of the belief that the government should do everything for you while you assume no personal responsibility for yourself or your actions. FDR built roads that led nowhere (literally and metaphorically).
FDR dragged America out of the stinking cesspool of 60% poverty rates that corporate communists left us all to die in. Hes the greatest American Leader of the 20th century

right there you just spread a corporate marxist lie--Kerry is a pro-gun hunter
The NRA said that if elected he would be the worst disaster for gun rights in modern times (and they do endorse democrats all the time, like my congressman so it isn't party bias). He knows gun control is a losing issue nowadays so he did some photo ops.

LOL where is this highway located?
Its dunno, this little patch of grass is by it.
http://www.mkultra.com/graphics/ompcover.jpg

He got an average score on an SAT:
This is true, and I outscored him...in seventh grade, but once again the
I took them in seventh grade too! John Hopkin's talent search, right? I got an 1160 then, well above average but a little below W.

Seriously, have you ever been diagnosed for paranoia? You might want to look into it. I promise the psychologists aren't being used by Bush to brainwash you.
Ill be treated for my paranoia when you get treated for being in denial

Liberals are so funny in their attempts to do/say ANYTHING do deface any conservative. I understand you all think it's good vs evil, and take the terrorist ideal of "anything for the good of the cause" but when will you realise, YOU are the evil ?
(yes, I did relate you to a terrorists mentality)

go ahead flame away, but the truth hurts, don't it ?

FDR dragged America out of the stinking cesspool of 60% poverty rates that corporate communists left us all to die in. Hes the greatest American Leader of the 20th century
This is still debated among economists, but many people think that FDR prolonged the depression with his policies. And lots of the "corporate marxists" ended up on the street like everyone else. Ever heard the song 'brother can you spare a dime'?

Kerry is a pro-gun hunterCorrection: he PRETENDED to be a pro-gun hunter...but people saw through his many lies, including the ever-popular one about crawling on his belly through the forest for deer hunting.

Really? Never elected....hmm.....George W. Bush was elected in 2000 by winning 271 Electoral Votes to Al Gore's 266. He was re-elected in 2004, tallying a whopping 51% and winning 286 EV's over Kerry's 252. He was elected; get over it. The United States elects our Presidents with the Electoral College; not the popular vote.

How does he not have checks on his power to balance the executive branch out with the other two? How does he wrap his government in secrecy? How does he punish people and for what? How does he reward liars?
In 2000 Bush became Americas first President who was appointed by the Supreme Court. Theres zero checks on Bushs abuses of power now that his party hijacked all three branches of govt and the media-he punished people for exposing misconduct in his administration and he elevated people who lied for him with promotions-he also passes new rules against "leaks" to make his administration the most secretive one in American history

The NRA said that if elected he would be the worst disaster for gun rights in modern times (and they do endorse democrats all the time, like my congressman so it isn't party bias). He knows gun control is a losing issue nowadays so he did some photo ops.
the NRA is an extremist organization that doesnt want ANY regulation on guns AT ALL no matter how reasonable--The NRA also thinks you need submachine guns to hunt deer apparently

still can't figure out how to put the word Communist/Marxist and the word Corporate together... my spell check gives me a typo :eek:

In 2000 Bush became Americas first President who was appointed by the Supreme Court. Theres zero checks on Bushs abuses of power now that his party hijacked all three branches of govt and the media-he punished people for exposing misconduct in his administration and he elevated people who lied for him with promotions-he also passes new rules against "leaks" to make his administration the most secretive one in American history
Get over it. Bush won the 2000 election fairly. All the Supreme Court did was stop the illegal recount cherrypicking the Democrats were trying to pull. Every recount done since then shows Bush won FL by a few hundred votes. A narrow victory, but still a victory.

In 2000 Bush became Americas first President who was appointed by the Supreme Court. Theres zero checks on Bushs abuses of power now that his party hijacked all three branches of govt and the media-he punished people for exposing misconduct in his administration and he elevated people who lied for him with promotions-he also passes new rules against "leaks" to make his administration the most secretive one in American history
Appointed by the Supreme Court in 2000? Please, spare us that sad story, which by the way, isn't true.

By a 7-2 vote, the US Supreme Court decided to stop all recounts in Florida, due to the selective nature of the counties to be recounted, and the selective way those counties would be recounted. What the Supreme Court did was, simply, to put an end to the stupidity of 4 Democrat-controlled counties, and let the Florida Secretary of State perform her duties as spelled out in the Florida Constitution.

Its dunno, this little patch of grass is by it.
http://www.mkultra.com/graphics/ompcover.jpg
LOL she looks brainwashed and dispossessed

Correction: he PRETENDED to be a pro-gun hunter...but people saw through his many lies, including the ever-popular one about crawling on his belly through the forest for deer hunting.

Wow you guys sure are smart.

To think a politician lies?

Who would have thought????

LOL she looks brainwashed and dispossessed
Just like you, may I add.

Liberals are so funny in their attempts to do/say ANYTHING do deface any conservative. I understand you all think it's good vs evil, and take the terrorist ideal of "anything for the good of the cause" but when will you realise, YOU are the evil ?
(yes, I did relate you to a terrorists mentality)

go ahead flame away, but the truth hurts, don't it ?
change the word liberal for conservative and youd have spoken the truth--the conservatives are the ones who invented the politics of personal destruction thru hate radio

right there you just spread a corporate marxist lie--Kerry is a pro-gun hunter

Well, Kerry achieved at one thing: fooling you. John Kerry is no pro-gun hunter. He has consistantly voted to evicerate the Second Amendment every chance he gets. For example, he wanted to ban all center-fire ammunition. Moreover, he knows nothing about hunting. He was in Wisconsin when was asked what kind of hunting he preferred. "I'd have to say deer. I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel, crawl around on my stomach....That's hunting."

You've fallen for yet another of the Left's lies, Skapedroe....

Wow you guys sure are smart.

To think a politician lies?

Who would have thought????
Wow you sure have caught me. <sarcasm>

Of course politicians lie.

However, to lie so blatantly as Kerry did, and then when caught in the lies, put together photo ops that were even more blatantly fake than his words...c'mon, Jean Francois, don't insult me!

still can't figure out how to put the word Communist/Marxist and the word Corporate together... my spell check gives me a typo :eek:

:)

Correction: he PRETENDED to be a pro-gun hunter...but people saw through his many lies, including the ever-popular one about crawling on his belly through the forest for deer hunting.
yet you uncritically swallow Bushs lies whole

Get over it. Bush won the 2000 election fairly. All the Supreme Court did was stop the illegal recount cherrypicking the Democrats were trying to pull. Every recount done since then shows Bush won FL by a few hundred votes. A narrow victory, but still a victory.
thats a classic foxnews lie--every recount shows Gore won

Saddam wasn't elected, unless you count his 99.9% performance in 2003 as an election.

Saddam Hussein was elected in his Iraqi farce-elections. Granted, he was the only one on the ballot and you had to vote or you got beheaded, but I digress.....

Appointed by the Supreme Court in 2000? Please, spare us that sad story, which by the way, isn't true.

By a 7-2 vote, the US Supreme Court decided to stop all recounts in Florida, due to the selective nature of the counties to be recounted, and the selective way those counties would be recounted. What the Supreme Court did was, simply, to put an end to the stupidity of 4 Democrat-controlled counties, and let the Florida Secretary of State perform her duties as spelled out in the Florida Constitution.
Or we could talk about how the most unfit Supreme court judge in american history Clarence Thomas refused to recuse himself from this case despite the fact that his own wife was working on Bushs campaign...

Wow you sure have caught me. <sarcasm>

Of course politicians lie.

However, to lie so blatantly as Kerry did, and then when caught in the lies, put together photo ops that were even more blatantly fake than his words...c'mon, Jean Francois, don't insult me!
your very selective about the lies you chose to believe

Yeah, referring to a particularly stupid urban legend is a great way to show off your massive intellect. (http://snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm)
Right. That chain is false. For example, Clinton with a 182; I think not. 182 is supposedly 'borderline genius.' While Clinton was a bright man, I think that, "Could you please define the word 'is'" tossed him out of the 'genius' running.
Plus, IQs are relative. They all have different standards.

Or we could talk about how the most unfit Supreme court judge in american history Clarence Thomas refused to recuse himself from this case despite the fact that his own wife was working on Bushs campaign...

In the words of the criminal, Al Sharpton, "You'za a rascist!" (yes, that says "rasicst" with an "s.") You're worse than Harry Reid; "Clarence Thomas is an embarrassment."

Why is it that the Left can get away with saying anything, but those of us on the Right would get crucified (metaphorically, possibly even litterally) if we uttered half of the racist and "inappropriate" statements....

Sigh...unfortunately these people are still allowed to vote.
If they weren't there would be no real motivation for politicians to improve education standards etc.
And yes, I realise that many politicians like having morons to vote for them. However, they're not the sort of leaders to actually have plans to improve the country. Being able to tell the remaining idealists in politics that their plans to improve education standards will result in a more informed electorate is helpful, especially when they're giving to despair.

thats a classic foxnews lie--every recount shows Gore won
Riiiiiight. Every recount except USA Today's with Bush winning by 273.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/cbc/flcbc.htm

In the words of the criminal, Al Sharpton, "You'za a rascist!" (yes, that says "rasicst" with an "s.") You're worse than Harry Reid; "Clarence Thomas is an embarrassment."

Why is it that the Left can get away with saying anything, but those of us on the Right would get crucified (metaphorically, possibly even litterally) if we uttered half of the racist and "inappropriate" statements....
because the Left as usual is speaking the truth in this case--Thomas IS an embarrassment--hes a mental midget who has Scalia write all his decisions for him because hes incapable of thinking for himself--he was only appointed in the first place cause hes a rightwing facist hidden behind a politically correct black face

because the Left as usual is speaking the truth in this case--Thomas IS an embarrassment--hes a mental midget who has Scalia write all his decisions for him because hes incapable of thinking for himself

The Left is incapable of speaking the truth, for one thing. Moreover, your irrational hatred of Mr. Thomas is speaks volumes about your character, or lack-their-of....

The Left is incapable of speaking the truth, for one thing. Moreover, your irrational hatred of Mr. Thomas is speaks volumes about your character, or lack-their-of....

And comments such as "the left is incapable of speaking the truth" speaks volumes of your lack of character.

1. Did President Bush tell us his I Q or are they experts opinions of posters?

2. Did Dolphins tell us they call dumb Dolphins George?

3. Etc, Etc, Etc?

For someone that stupid he won the election,
not bad for someone that stupid.

your kidding, right?

Now I could care less whether or not someone bashes anyone, but to say that you have a 147 I.Q. and use "your" instead of "you're" strikes me as....someone with more like a 91 I.Q... :sniper: :eek:

Remember, folks: if you're a liberal, you HAVE to believe what other liberals say and if you're a conservative, you HAVE to believe what other conservatives say. That's freedom of thought. And no, they're wrong! You're right.. stupid elitists thinking you wrong.

still can't figure out how to put the word Communist/Marxist and the word Corporate together...

It's called the PRC.

yet you uncritically swallow Bushs lies whole

I so love this stuff.

I have real problems with President Bush. He seems to have forgotten school vouchers, he doesn't go nearly far enough with the Patriot Act, and he's far too responsive to the pro-Saddam seditionists of the Left. But the vapid, ignorantly insulting spew coming out of the infuriated Left ever since this man was elected gives me no end of satisfaction.

thats a classic foxnews lie--every recount shows Gore won

Just not in this universe.

Given that Leftists think of the general public as "sheep" and "cattle" and, when in power, treat them as sheep and cattle are treated, I'm glad to see them as far out of power as they are. Even the Democrats put them in a cage at the DNC.

It's enough to make an old reactionary fascist like me cream. Keep it up, kids. ;)

Yet another website that quotes a non-existent Lovenstein institute!

For someone who claims to have a 147 IQ, you are pretty dumb.

Call back when you graduate from Yale, fly fighter jets for a living, and get an MBA from the very exclusive Harvard Business School.

first of all Bush NEVER flew fighters for a living, Second of all, the only thing it takes to get a passing grade from either harvard or Yale is LOTS OF MONEY. period.. and as far as the Snopes website is concerned, i will follow the ancient Discordian philosphy of never believing a thing i read.

you are all idiots for debating this topic for more than 10 posts...

Long live the New Soviet Red Army, we will crush you all like the insignificant bugs that you really are.

first of all Bush NEVER flew fighters for a living, Second of all, the only thing it takes to get a passing grade from either harvard or Yale is LOTS OF MONEY. period.. and as far as the Snopes website is concerned, i will follow the ancient Discordian philosphy of never believing a thing i read.

you are all idiots for debating this topic for more than 10 posts...

Long live the New Soviet Red Army, we will crush you all like the insignificant bugs that you really are.

*crickets chirp. A giant flying monkey flies by the window.* OH SNAP!

*crickets chirp. A giant flying monkey flies by the window.* OH SNAP!

You forgot to put: Me!

You forgot to put: Me!

R_B, you're alive! You're still here?! Wowza! *jumps up and dances the Puppy Shuffle* And you're right about leaving that off there....

Me!

I hate it when I live in a nation where a man fit for working in an assembly line becomes thew most powerful man on earth... just cuz his daddy and his brother said so! ( 91... my I.q. is 147, *sigh)
Whatever helps you sleep at night

A president doesnt use words like "transshipment" and "Nucular" Oh, and lets not forget "misunderestimated"
A President doesn't fuck his secretaries, either, buddy.

Have you read that damn Snopes article yet? I'm guessing you decided to pass on that, huh?

George Bush is underestimated as a politician. He knows tricks, and the "average Joe sixpack" is one he is expert at. One Kerry and Gore could have learned to use.

This is a very important point that of gets lost in the whole "Bush is an idiot" bandwagon. Since Americans are, as a whole, sceptical of government coming across as a everyday guy appeals; after all, an everyday guy is less likely to break out the black helicopters. Equally, seeming a bit simple minded is a bonus, stupid people are less threatening.

I remember seeing a documentary on the BBC about 2 years ago that was very enlightening. I'm afraid I can't remember the title but it was made by a US (female, I only mention this in the hope it will jog someone's memory) reporter for (IIRC) one of the big broadcasters who followed Bush's first campaign from the primaries to his eventual election. Now this reporter was clearly in the blue camp and manifestly opposed everything Bush stood for. What the documentary showed, however, was how adept Bush was at winning over all the journalists in the camp, even the dark blues. Small things like remembering names and personal details, cracking self-deprecating jokes, coming over to chat if they looked down and so on made a huge difference. By the end I swear he could have had most of them roll over and expose their bellies if he said he'd tickle it. The maker of the documentary herself clearly also felt warmly towards him, even if she continued to oppose everything he stood for. You never saw the Gore camp but from what the journalists were saying they'd heard from the colleagues it seemed that this was in no way the case there.

I guess what I'm saying is that Bush clearly has at least a high level of social intelligence. It's fair to assume that he has plenty of over tricks up his sleeve, too, else he wouldn't have got this far. Having family connections only gets you so far, plenty of Kennedies and Keenedy-in-laws have fallen by the wayside. He may not be exactly the most articulate person on the planet, and I don't think it's all an act because it's hurt him at times, but I cannot believe he is stupid. The really stupid people are the ones who think he is.




PS I hate Bush.

This is a very important point that of gets lost in the whole "Bush is an idiot" bandwagon. Since Americans are, as a whole, sceptical of government coming across as a everyday guy appeals; after all, an everyday guy is less likely to break out the black helicopters. Equally, seeming a bit simple minded is a bonus, stupid people are less threatening.

I remember seeing a documentary on the BBC about 2 years ago that was very enlightening. I'm afraid I can't remember the title but it was made by a US (female, I only mention this in the hope it will jog someone's memory) reporter for (IIRC) one of the big broadcasters who followed Bush's first campaign from the primaries to his eventual election. Now this reporter was clearly in the blue camp and manifestly opposed everything Bush stood for. What the documentary showed, however, was how adept Bush was at winning over all the journalists in the camp, even the dark blues. Small things like remembering names and personal details, cracking self-deprecating jokes, coming over to chat if they looked down and so on made a huge difference. By the end I swear he could have had most of them roll over and expose their bellies if he said he'd tickle it. The maker of the documentary herself clearly also felt warmly towards him, even if she continued to oppose everything he stood for. You never saw the Gore camp but from what the journalists were saying they'd heard from the colleagues it seemed that this was in no way the case there.

I guess what I'm saying is that Bush clearly has at least a high level of social intelligence. It's fair to assume that he has plenty of over tricks up his sleeve, too, else he wouldn't have got this far. Having family connections only gets you so far, plenty of Kennedies and Keenedy-in-laws have fallen by the wayside. He may not be exactly the most articulate person on the planet, and I don't think it's all an act because it's hurt him at times, but I cannot believe he is stupid. The really stupid people are the ones who think he is.




PS I hate Bush.
God Bless you and everyone like you. You are a credit to the image of liberals. I'm being serious. It's very nice to know that there are SOME honest libs in the world today.

This is a very important point that of gets lost in the whole "Bush is an idiot" bandwagon. Since Americans are, as a whole, sceptical of government coming across as a everyday guy appeals; after all, an everyday guy is less likely to break out the black helicopters. Equally, seeming a bit simple minded is a bonus, stupid people are less threatening.
Less threatening? I think not. They're unpredictable at best, and that's dangerous.

The Reichstag was burnt by the National Socialists in an attempt to sway the population against the Jews. It worked.


Actually it was used to sway the population against the Communists. Well, actually it was used to legitimise Hitler taking extra-ordinary powers, but none of this is really relevant because the OP was wrong when (s)he said that Hitler used it to justify waging war. It had precisely 0 to do with any war mongering.

And though one could find an analogy with the Patriot Acts one could just as easily draw an analogy between the Patriot Acts and restrictions on civil liberties taken enacted by the British government in WW2. That's why historical analogies have to be very precise, not just based on superficial similarities, which is what the OP was doing.

SATs don't matter, He graduated from Yale with a C average, Yale! and besides, whatever he got on his SATs dont matter, he was average! a president should be a genius, like JFK!

Er... repeating the fact that it was Yale doesn't exactly strengthen your point. George W. Bush was average at one of the top five schools in the country. That's still not bad.

Er... repeating the fact that it was Yale doesn't exactly strengthen your point. George W. Bush was average at one of the top five schools in the country. That's still not bad.
He got into Yale because of money, though. He got a high D average in high school.

He got into Yale because of money, though. He got a high D average in high school.
So he improves with age, like a fine wine. ;)

My favorite :

we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

It really goes against what most people think Neo-Cons are for.

Not exactly, it should read:

we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad whether they want it or not;

Snopes.com is wonderful...
So how about a method of determining intelligence that they do release the scores for? GW got a 1200 on the SAT's- not incredible, but well above the average 1020. If anyone is going to bother answering honestly, what did y'all get on the SAT's?

Actually, SAT scores aren't released, either. Any accurate information on Dubya's SAT score would have to come from the Bush family, since they're the only ones who would know.

He got into Yale because of money, though. He got a high D average in high school.

Source?

First you say:
SATs don't matter, He graduated from Yale with a C average,
And then you contradict yourself by saying:
a president should be a genius,

If you want to measure actual intelligence, school grades are a horrible criterion. Grades in school measure two things:
1) how well you "play the game"
2) how well you memorize and regurgitate isolated bits of information

Neither of these have any bearing on actual intelligence, which is abstract reasoning ability--the ability to figure things out for yourself. Intelligence is measured by IQ tests and the SAT, and has no bearing on grades in school. In fact, the most intelligent people often have the worst grades because they have better things to do then waste time on homework for things they already understand and aren't interested in rote memorization when they could spend their time actually UNDERSTANDING things instead.

thats a classic foxnews lie--every recount shows Gore won
Bring one...just one, that shows without a doubt that Gore won in FL in 2000. Go ahead, find one.

I have never taken the SAT but I did take the ACT and recieved a 32. That is the equivalant of about a 1420-1450.

Nope. Regardless of what your high school guidance counselor may have told you, scores on the SAT and the ACT cannot be compared. They measure two different things.

your very selective about the lies you chose to believe
As compared to you, who believes every single one you hear from your side? What I believe has been proven...what you believe, you have pulled out of some dark region of your addled brain.

Dear Lord, why must you pain me so? He got into Yale Because of Money! A C average man should never become resident

Because you made a blatantly false statement, and then when people called you on it you alternately ran and hid or evaded the issue. That's called "intellectual dishonesty".

first of all Bush NEVER flew fighters for a living, Second of all, the only thing it takes to get a passing grade from either harvard or Yale is LOTS OF MONEY. period.. and as far as the Snopes website is concerned, i will follow the ancient Discordian philosphy of never believing a thing i read.

you are all idiots for debating this topic for more than 10 posts...

Long live the New Soviet Red Army, we will crush you all like the insignificant bugs that you really are.
Wow, you must be even more deluded than the original poster and MKULTRA (or whatever his latest variation is,) put together. You must have missed the entire few months, including the release of GW Bush's flying record with the TX Air National Guard, which showed he flew more than 300 hours in the F-102, a fighter jet.

But why am I wasting time explaining this to you? It's like trying to teach a pig to dance...all I am going to accomplish is get dirty.

well lets see.... his great grand daddy Prescott Bush Gave millions to I.G. Farben (nazi company in nazi germany taht helped hitler establish power and the reichstag) the bush family has many ties to nazi's. dont take my word for it though, do some research and see what you come up with, you might be suprised.

That's nice...what do the actions of his great-grandfather have to do with him?

He got into Yale because of money, though. He got a high D average in high school.
And let me guess...you don't actually have proof, you simply heard someone say it, or someone said it to you in a mass email...

Bring out the proof, won't you?

And let me guess...you don't actually have proof, you simply heard someone say it, or someone said it to you in a mass email...

Bring out the proof, won't you?

Actually it's easier then you think. Back in high school I dated a girl whose IQ was unmeasurable. We can skip all the arguments of the value of IQ since the fact she was smarter then well anybody here. What she saw in me I never figured out! ;)

She went to Stanford and Yale and she once told me you would be amazed at home many stupid people with rather large bank accounts attend these schools.

Not saying it applies to the shrub. Just saying it's not that simple to discount the possibility.

Wow you sure have caught me. <sarcasm>

Of course politicians lie.


Now don't act like an american. Sarcasm should be detectable without sarcasm warnings or tags! ;)

Yes, you must; I already cited one which declares what you said earlier is bullshit and has the facts to prove it. You could excercise the genius in you by actually reading it.

The grammtical correction you made was incorrect. After a comma, you do not capitalize. Sorry, I just felt a burning need to point that out.

the NRA is an extremist organization that doesnt want ANY regulation on guns AT ALL no matter how reasonable--The NRA also thinks you need submachine guns to hunt deer apparently

Unfortunately, you're wrong. The NRA is a pussy organization. The GOA's stance is closer to what you say, though.

What I don't understand is why you have a problem with that. Given that the whole point of civilian weapon (not just gun) ownership is so the population can rise up against government, isn't it rather absurd to have government regulate gun ownership?

Nope. Regardless of what your high school guidance counselor may have told you, scores on the SAT and the ACT cannot be compared. They measure two different things.

Despite the hundreds of studies and thousands of dollars the nations university has come up with to create a way to interchange the two they can't be compared? I never worked with my HS counslers, they were not the most helpful bunch. I worked with the counselers at the university my entire HS carreer (all of whom have at least a masters degree). The tests are fairly similar. I have friends who took both and the table was acurate virtually every time, with my freinds falling into the expected score range in all cases but one, with that one being a math wiz and as such scoring higher on the SAT, leading me to believe that taking the second test was a waste of time. Regardless I would feel more comforatble with a president who was intelligent enough to form coherent sentences, or apply basic logic to problems, scores are only a symptom of the bigger problem, morons.

Sotha Syl man, you're pathetic. You reveal this information, which isn't even definite, and then (and this really pisses me off) is brag about your own IQ. That's lame man. Like we're supposed to think, "Whoa shit man, Sotha should be President!" And even supposing Bush's IQ is 91, who gives a fuck? You better hail to the chief man, cause he's already in office. Some Sylvan Learning Center IQ test revolution won't change that.

That was painful to read. It really was. Its clear that the original claim was bogus, and Mr. 147 IQ can't read. Despite the ignorant claims of the arrogent pre-teen that started this thread, Bush has not proven to be a good president. All intelligence and schooling aside, Bush's policies suck. End of story.

Unfortunately, you're wrong. The NRA is a pussy organization. The GOA's stance is closer to what you say, though.

What I don't understand is why you have a problem with that. Given that the whole point of civilian weapon (not just gun) ownership is so the population can rise up against government, isn't it rather absurd to have government regulate gun ownership?

America, the only country in the western world where people still maintain that private ownership of assault weapons is a better check on government than a robust constitution, an independent press and independence of institutions.

America, the only country in the western world where people still maintain that private ownership of assault weapons is a better check on government than a robust constitution, an independent press and independence of institutions.
Because it is in our history. All of the treaties and neat little pieces of paper made with England did not porduce what we wanted. We have also ignored pieces of paper that said we would not take anymore native land. Governments have ignored constitutions before.

Bush took an IQ test when he entered the National Guard and scored a 125. Kerry recieved a 120 on his IQ test when he entered millitary service. Both are signifigantly above average. IQ tests have since been replaced with the ASVAB in the millitary.

Clinton never recieved a 182, simply becuase the current accepted IQ test, the WAIS (Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale) or WISC (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children) go up to a range of 174.

So ergo, a 182 is impossible. Also, unless your "IQ" test was issued by a board ceritfied psychologist, it is bogus. And you got quite a deal if you got someone making $150 an hour to spend 3-4 hours on you for $35.

1. Did President Bush tell us his I Q or are they experts opinions of posters?

2. Did Dolphins tell us they call dumb Dolphins George?

3. Etc, Etc, Etc?

For someone that stupid he won the election,
not bad for someone that stupid.
no one ever said the monkeys handlers werent smart

still can't figure out how to put the word Communist/Marxist and the word Corporate together...

It's called the PRC.

yet you uncritically swallow Bushs lies whole

I so love this stuff.

I have real problems with President Bush. He seems to have forgotten school vouchers, he doesn't go nearly far enough with the Patriot Act, and he's far too responsive to the pro-Saddam seditionists of the Left. But the vapid, ignorantly insulting spew coming out of the infuriated Left ever since this man was elected gives me no end of satisfaction.

thats a classic foxnews lie--every recount shows Gore won

Just not in this universe.

Given that Leftists think of the general public as "sheep" and "cattle" and, when in power, treat them as sheep and cattle are treated, I'm glad to see them as far out of power as they are. Even the Democrats put them in a cage at the DNC.

It's enough to make an old reactionary fascist like me cream. Keep it up, kids. ;)well at least you admit to being a freedom hating facist

Er... repeating the fact that it was Yale doesn't exactly strengthen your point. George W. Bush was average at one of the top five schools in the country. That's still not bad.
its called having political connections

Because you made a blatantly false statement, and then when people called you on it you alternately ran and hid or evaded the issue. That's called "intellectual dishonesty".
just like its intellectual dishonesty of the right not to admit that Bush looked like a total buffoon that he is during the debates

Wow, you must be even more deluded than the original poster and MKULTRA (or whatever his latest variation is,) put together. You must have missed the entire few months, including the release of GW Bush's flying record with the TX Air National Guard, which showed he flew more than 300 hours in the F-102, a fighter jet.

But why am I wasting time explaining this to you? It's like trying to teach a pig to dance...all I am going to accomplish is get dirty.
all Bushs military records prove is that he was a failure

Unfortunately, you're wrong. The NRA is a pussy organization. The GOA's stance is closer to what you say, though.

What I don't understand is why you have a problem with that. Given that the whole point of civilian weapon (not just gun) ownership is so the population can rise up against government, isn't it rather absurd to have government regulate gun ownership?
when you put it that way I see your point

On the other hand, there is irrefutable evidence of Dubya's... less than scintillating... intellect in the way he speaks and acts. He can't pronounce 'subliminal'. There are two or three books I have at home of "George W. Bushisms", citing the man's dyslexic or just plain idiotic quotes. Here's one I remember:

"That woman who said I was dyslexic.... I never interviewed her."

I've heard it a couple of times on a couple of apparently unrelated sources that he has agenda/policy read out to him.

When asked his favourite book, he said "The Hungry Caterpillar," when he was small. Despite the obvious statement that can be made about that, here's a definite piece of fact: "The Hungry Caterpillar" was published when Dubya was 17. Perhaps in that famous piece of footage of him "freezing" in the classroom when told about the plane crashes he was in fact concentrating on trying to read a tri-syllabic word :p

And then there's his policies...

DISCLAIMER: PIFLING IS HERE MOVING ON TO A NEW TOPIC WHICH GRATES ON HIS NERVES. TORRENTS OF BLAZING SCORN, EUROPEAN DESIRE FOR AMERICACIDE AND OTHER NON-LOGICAL THINGS MAY OCCUR.

Because it is in our history. All of the treaties and neat little pieces of paper made with England did not porduce what we wanted. We have also ignored pieces of paper that said we would not take anymore native land. Governments have ignored constitutions before.

What the American people wanted was what, exactly? The right to have government and military protection without taxation? As a matter of fact, Americans paid a fraction of the taxes current in England at the time, and yet somehow they took umbrage at having to pay any money at all - forbid the thought - and attacked the free trade that they claimed to hold so dear, throwing the tea of innocent merchants into the harbour in a famous example. No taxation without representation. Quite right. But the Americans conveniently ignored the fact that they had representation. True, it was less than that of those at home, but then there were more people at home! Contrary to the belief of most primary school children and Republicans, Bigger is not Better. Just because you have more land does not mean you have more votes. Britain was home to more people. Finally, Parliament was not a system of government. Parliament was a system of rubber-stamping the King's laws. Therefore the British people were hardly any better represented than the Americans, and the Americans themselves had a far better tax deal. To hell with you, sir, I say, and a plague on your family!

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

On the other hand, there is irrefutable evidence of Dubya's... less than scintillating... intellect in the way he speaks and acts. He can't pronounce 'subliminal'. There are two or three books I have at home of "George W. Bushisms", citing the man's dyslexic or just plain idiotic quotes. Here's one I remember:

"That woman who said I was dyslexic.... I never interviewed her."

I've heard it a couple of times on a couple of apparently unrelated sources that he has agenda/policy read out to him.

When asked his favourite book, he said "The Hungry Caterpillar," when he was small. Despite the obvious statement that can be made about that, here's a definite piece of fact: "The Hungry Caterpillar" was published when Dubya was 17. Perhaps in that famous piece of footage of him "freezing" in the classroom when told about the plane crashes he was in fact concentrating on trying to read a tri-syllabic word :p

And then there's his policies...

DISCLAIMER: PIFLING IS HERE MOVING ON TO A NEW TOPIC WHICH GRATES ON HIS NERVES. TORRENTS OF BLAZING SCORN, EUROPEAN DESIRE FOR AMERICACIDE AND OTHER NON-LOGICAL THINGS MAY OCCUR.



What the American people wanted was what, exactly? The right to have government and military protection without taxation? As a matter of fact, Americans paid a fraction of the taxes current in England at the time, and yet somehow they took umbrage at having to pay any money at all - forbid the thought - and attacked the free trade that they claimed to hold so dear, throwing the tea of innocent merchants into the harbour in a famous example. No taxation without representation. Quite right. But the Americans conveniently ignored the fact that they had representation. True, it was less than that of those at home, but then there were more people at home! Contrary to the belief of most primary school children and Republicans, Bigger is not Better. Just because you have more land does not mean you have more votes. Britain was home to more people. Finally, Parliament was not a system of government. Parliament was a system of rubber-stamping the King's laws. Therefore the British people were hardly any better represented than the Americans, and the Americans themselves had a far better tax deal. To hell with you, sir, I say, and a plague on your family!

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
I'll throw this (http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=election_2004&collectionid=BrainTenYrs&from=BA) out there for consideration, though no one ever follows or looks at it. But it relates to the first part.

The second part, most of us know. But after 1812 I think we called "no take backs" or something. Anyway...you think you got a raw deal, you should talk to the people who where already here.

well in any case fact remains that bush is the most powerfull retard of this era.

even his economy teachers said his policies would get america back into an economic crisis, and thanks for that, probably the rest of the world aswell.

i'll just say down with bush!

I'll throw this (http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=election_2004&collectionid=BrainTenYrs&from=BA) out there for consideration, though no one ever follows or looks at it. But it relates to the first part.

The second part, most of us know. But after 1812 I think we called "no take backs" or something. Anyway...you think you got a raw deal, you should talk to the people who where already here.

I just watched that video, and just realized we have been desensitized on what a good speaker sounds like. The Bush of ten years ago would have destroyed Kerry in the debates, as it was the Bush of 2004, Bush comes off looking like an amateur, and Kerry gets the reputation of being an expert debater.

Because it is in our history.

Not exactly. Armed US militia overthrew a colonial power, not their own government. A number of European nations have had the self-same experience (Belgium springs immediately to mind) yet don't feel the need to protect their freedom with AK-47s.

I'm curious to see if anyone can cite me a historical example where widespread ownership of guns helped prevent a domestic dictatorship taking root. Because I can cite a couple of examples where it actually helped establish a dictatorship...


All of the treaties and neat little pieces of paper made with England did not porduce what we wanted. We have also ignored pieces of paper that said we would not take anymore native land. Governments have ignored constitutions before.

Hence I listed a number of different factors. The key factor, though, is culture. The greatest protection against dictatorship is having the right political culture. Tolerance and respect for other opinions is the absolute key. That means being able to accept it if most people don't agree with your way of thinking without automatically assuming something is deeply wrong with the world (arch-Kerryists take note). It also means accepting the primacy of protection of individual liberty, constitutional or otherwise, over any concern other than personal safety (the anti-gay marriage lobby take note). If these are entrenched dictatorships will not emerge regardless of whether people own Uzis or not.

The grammtical correction you made was incorrect. After a comma, you do not capitalize. Sorry, I just felt a burning need to point that out.What preceded it in the original text is meaningless. I quoted it as a single sentence, thus the first letter had to be capitalized -- at least that is how I have been taught quoting. I've also been taught that grammar, spelling, etc. should not be corrected in quotes anyway, unless errors in those would lead to confusion about what was meant and which could be avoided by correcting some small bit.

As you may have guessed by how quickly the snopes article came up, this myth is old news (though for some reason it's having a resurgance...)

May I suggest a different one? Like this one? (http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=election_2004&collectionid=BrainTenYrs&from=BA) How'd that happen?



Seriously the difference is scary and it does look like he's losing it

This is a fun sport for me. I enjoy reading the start of a thread that shows something to the effect of the current U.S. President lacking intelligence and then it evolves into people owning automatic weapons like the Uzi.

As for Gee Whiz Dubya, it is no great secret that he is not that bright. For whatever reason, the voters in America overlooked that shortcoming.

As for me, I chose John Kerry in the Democratic primary and I voted the Kerry-Edwards ticket. Part of the reason I made these choices relate to the difference in intelligence between the Republican and the Democrat who ran for President.

Beyond the natural talent, though, I made my choice based on what the two men said about their beliefs in freedom and America.

Didn't take the SAT's, took the ACT and got a 31.

I have seen reports that on various military intelligence tests Bush scored higher than Kerry and had a score that was relative to around 125 IQ. I'm not sure maybe someone can find an article about it.
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

And Clinton had 182 IQ?! Bullshit, I don't think we have had a president with higher than a 150.
Agreed.

Seriously the difference is scary and it does look like he's losing it
I should say that I haven't researched or varified anything claimed in that film, so I more or less view it as entertainment, but it is kinda disturbing...

I should say that I haven't researched or varified anything claimed in that film, so I more or less view it as entertainment, but it is kinda disturbing...

There are plenty of examples of how he stutters now. The only thingthat footage shows is the fact that he WAS a compitent public speaker. I think a more interesting question is how did he get from A to B and could that have an implication on his duty.

A possible stroke?
Autsimers (sp?) ?

As I am too lazy to read all 244 previous posts, please excuse me if I repeat. First of all, GWB received his bachelors from Yale and his masters from Harvard. Money can only buy so much, but an education from either of these schools is not one of them. Only intelligence and hard work will do that. Second point that you may not be aware of, for all of you who think that the president should be a high level genius...Almost all bipolars (manic depressives) have very high intelligence, and all geniuses are bipolar. That's why it is also called the brilliant madness. In a president, the manic phases could be extremely beneficial, but the depressed phases could be catastrophic, depending on the severity and frequency of the mood swings.

As for GWB's language skills...his pronunciation of nuclear is common in this part of the country. As a matter of fact, when I listen to people from other regions, especially in the northeast, NYC and Boston in particular, a lot of what I hear sounds "wrong". I would also hazard a guess that he is a stutterer. I have a cousin that stutters. He has mastered the problem except when in a stressful situation. At those times he struggles with his words. FYI, my cousin is a nuclear physicist and a West Point graduate with an extremely high IQ. He is also bipolar and combats suicidal tendencies with his deep Christian faith.

For my money, give me someone with above-average intelligence, a good solid education, and some common sense. It helps, too, if he speaks with a southern accent so I am better able to understand him.

Snopes.com is wonderful...
So how about a method of determining intelligence that they do release the scores for? GW got a 1200 on the SAT's- not incredible, but well above the average 1020. If anyone is going to bother answering honestly, what did y'all get on the SAT's?

1250 - 620 on one and 630 on the other but I can't for the life of me remember which was which.

1250 - 620 on one and 630 on the other but I can't for the life of me remember which was which.

1206 according to Slate (http://slate.msn.com/id/1003943/) (good article, BTW, worth reading with regards to the current debate), with 566 verbal and 640 maths.

According to sources cited in the site (http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm) mentioned earlier that would give him an IQ of 125 or so.

As for GWB's language skills...his pronunciation of nuclear is common in this part of the country. As a matter of fact, when I listen to people from other regions, especially in the northeast, NYC and Boston in particular, a lot of what I hear sounds "wrong". I would also hazard a guess that he is a stutterer. I have a cousin that stutters. He has mastered the problem except when in a stressful situation. At those times he struggles with his words.
.

http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=election_2004&collectionid=BrainTenYrs&from=BA

As I am too lazy to read all 244 previous posts, please excuse me if I repeat. First of all, GWB received his bachelors from Yale and his masters from Harvard. Money can only buy so much, but an education from either of these schools is not one of them. Only intelligence and hard work will do that. Second point that you may not be aware of, for all of you who think that the president should be a high level genius...Almost all bipolars (manic depressives) have very high intelligence, and all geniuses are bipolar. That's why it is also called the brilliant madness. In a president, the manic phases could be extremely beneficial, but the depressed phases could be catastrophic, depending on the severity and frequency of the mood swings.

As for GWB's language skills...his pronunciation of nuclear is common in this part of the country. As a matter of fact, when I listen to people from other regions, especially in the northeast, NYC and Boston in particular, a lot of what I hear sounds "wrong". I would also hazard a guess that he is a stutterer. I have a cousin that stutters. He has mastered the problem except when in a stressful situation. At those times he struggles with his words. FYI, my cousin is a nuclear physicist and a West Point graduate with an extremely high IQ. He is also bipolar and combats suicidal tendencies with his deep Christian faith.

For my money, give me someone with above-average intelligence, a good solid education, and some common sense. It helps, too, if he speaks with a southern accent so I am better able to understand him.


Ever wonder why Kerry didn't connect with rural areas? Because he came across as an effete, high class, disconnected, unmanly, smarmy creep who has no idea how to live if his house costs less than fifty million dollars, and whose idea of working is windsurfing for the press at Martha's Vineyard.

Met a lot of Southern women who thought Kerry was creepy, and Bush was "down to earth". Just on watching the men speak - not anything else.

What killed the older Bush's campaign back in the day? Being disconnected - he didn't know what a supermarket scanner was - and right after the press hopped on that, his polls plummeted.

Can't be rich, and come across as rich, and win. You have to have some human qualities.

I don't like Clinton, but I've heard him speak, and he's great at coming across as down to earth, especially in person. Very likeable.

Kerry has the personality of wallboard, with a thin veneer of gold paint.

Didn't take the SAT's, took the ACT and got a 31.

I have seen reports that on various military intelligence tests Bush scored higher than Kerry and had a score that was relative to around 125 IQ. I'm not sure maybe someone can find an article about it.

And Clinton had 182 IQ?! Bullshit, I don't think we have had a president with higher than a 150.

Right, article.

Bush’s Brain


The candidates’ comparative IQ scores don’t conform to the cliché.


By Steve Sailer

For a moment, I thought Sen. John F. Kerry was the exception to the rule that all liberals are secretly obsessed—even though they tell each other they don’t believe in it—with IQ.

The Thursday before the election, Tom Brokaw interviewed Kerry on the “NBC Nightly News” and told him, “Someone has analyzed the president’s military aptitude tests and yours and concluded that he has a higher IQ than you do.”

Kerry instantly dismissed this news with admirable nonchalance, “That’s great. More power.”

I was especially interested in Kerry’s response because that “someone” who had estimated Kerry’s and Bush’s IQs was me.




I had long been struck by how so many liberals were convinced that Bush was an idiot compared to Kerry. For example, Howell Raines, the former executive editor of the New York Times, asked: “Does anyone in America doubt that Kerry has a higher IQ than Bush? I’m sure the candidates’ SATs and college transcripts would put Kerry far ahead.”

Yet the scarlet letters “IQ” had almost never appeared in Raines’s Times. Ten years ago, The Bell Curve proved an enormous bestseller, but the backlash against the book banished IQ from the media. Still, as politically incorrect as cognitive tests have become, colleges and the military have not dropped them. They are simply too useful in sorting large numbers of applicants.

Nor have people stopped talking privately about IQ—especially liberals, who seem to believe, with deepest sincerity, both that IQ is an utterly discredited concept and that liberals are better than conservatives because liberals have much higher IQs.

Democrats constantly sneer at Republicans’ IQs. Misspelling “potato” ended Dan Quayle’s political career, and Google lists 225,000 web pages—few of them complimentary—that include the words “Bush” and “IQ.”

In 2001, some jokers issued a prank press release claiming the (nonexistent) “Lovenstein Institute” had scientifically proven that Bill Clinton has a (Galileo-like) IQ of 182, while George H.W. Bush (who was graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Yale in 2.5 years) had a below average 98 and his son (who has degrees from Yale and Harvard) only a 91. Garry Trudeau fell for this transparent nonsense and shoved it into “Doonesbury.”

Similarly, last May hundreds of liberal websites and even the august Economist magazine succumbed to another IQ hoax, this one claiming that the average IQ in states that voted for Gore was absurdly higher (for example, 113 in Connecticut) than in states that voted Bush (87 in Utah). Immediately following Bush’s victory, this fictitious table spread over the Internet again.

In truth, I don’t believe anybody has measured average state IQs since the huge post-Sputnik Project TALENT study in 1960. If you look instead at a rough proxy such as the National Assessment of Educational Progress achievement tests for public-school eighth graders, you’ll find that Gore states beat Bush states by only a tiny amount.

A more direct comparison of the parties’ voters can be found in the 2000 exit poll, where Bush voters reported an average educational level negligibly greater than Gore voters. Gore did best among high-school dropouts and those who had undertaken postgraduate studies, with Bush leading among those in between. (Many Democrats with advanced degrees, by the way, are public-school teachers with credentials in the easy field of education.)

In the 2002 midterm elections, voters supporting Republican House candidates were particularly well-educated. The GOP won 58 percent to 40 percent among college graduates and even captured a majority among postgrads for the first time in many years.

In 2004, Bush’s majority was more downscale. If you assume that high-school dropouts averaged 10 years of schooling, high-school grads 12 years, those who attended college but didn’t graduate 14 years, college grads 16, and postgrads 18, then Kerry voters claimed 14.64 years of education and Bush voters 14.48 years or only about six weeks less schooling.

Democrats’ denunciations of the president’s IQ bemuse me because Bush strikes me as a lazy but clever and unscrupulous operator who, ever since he quit drinking in 1987, has contrived to get whatever he wants out of life. As I wrote in the Oct. 11 American Conservative in a review of John Sayles’s film “Silver City,” in which Chris Cooper portrays a moronic politician with Bush’s mannerisms, “In the president’s lone losing race, his 1978 run for Congress from West Texas, the victor stressed Bush’s two Ivy League degrees. Bush resolved never to allow himself to be outdumbed again. And the Democrats haven’t outsmarted him since.”

Back in 1999, Charles Murray, co-author of The Bell Curve, and I estimated from Bush’s SAT of 1206 (about 1280 under the easier scoring system adopted in 1995) that his IQ fell somewhere around the 95th percentile. The late leftist historian Jim Chapin estimated that Bush’s IQ of roughly 125 probably falls in the second quartile of presidents, a little below average, while Al Gore, who scored about 10 points higher, was in the third quartile. You don’t have to be a genius to be president.

In contrast to Bush, Kerry is from Massachusetts, where intellectual pretensions are popular. Yet there was little hard evidence that Kerry was as brilliant as his flatterers claimed. Unlike Bush, who attended Harvard Business School, Kerry went to plebian Boston College for law school, and his transcripts and test scores appeared to be locked away.

Then a Navy vet named Sam Sewell pointed out to me that the Kerry campaign had posted online an obscure military report giving the cryptic score Kerry had made on the IQ-like test he took when he applied to Officer Candidate School in 1966. After three weeks of research, I determined that Kerry had achieved the average score for applicants to OCS.

In comparison, Bush scored somewhat above average on the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test, which was normed against applicants to the Air Force Academy. Those are both good scores—officer applicants are well above the national average. The two men were clearly fairly similar in mental ability when seniors at Yale. Based on my research into the details of these two similar but different tests, if I had to bet, I’d wager Bush would have scored higher if they had both taken the same test back in the Sixties.

When Kerry insouciantly replied to Brokaw as if he didn’t care what he scored on a 90-minute exam 38 years ago, as if he believed that all that he had accomplished since then was the proper measure of the man, I was impressed.

But then Kerry broke the spell by quibbling about my research, “I don’t know how they’ve done it, because my record is not public. So I don’t know where you’re getting that from.” Evidently, IQ mattered to Kerry, too.

A few days later, Brokaw went on Don Imus’s radio show and revealed just how much it bugged Kerry that I had said Bush probably had a slightly higher IQ. After the cameras had stopped rolling, Kerry had rationalized to Brokaw, “I must have been drinking the night before I took that military aptitude test.”
____________________________________________________


Steve Sailer is TAC’s film critic. He also writes for VDARE.com and iSteve.com