NationStates Jolt Archive

So we've all heard Yuschenko was poisoned with Dioxin . . . does anybody know if in a large enough quantity it becomes lethal?

So we've all heard Yuschenko was poisoned with Dioxin . . . does anybody know if in a large enough quantity it becomes lethal?

Dioxin will kill you if untreated. Didn't you see the befor and after shots of him?

I knew a guy that got Agent Orange a few times.

He has been dealing with cancer ever since the war. Lost both nuts to it :eek: Several skin cancers cut off, and it never ends.....

Dioxin's are considered to be some of the most deadly chemicals within chemical engineering. Dead easy to make, so I hear.

Didn't you see the befor and after shots of him?
I did . . . at most I thought it could cause disfiguration and pain, but I guess I'm wrong

No, whoever did it was either stupid for trying to cause pain with a serious deadly chemical (acid would have done nicely) or stupid for doing crappy work on finishing the job

I personally hadn't heard of it before this incident. Why didn't the would-be assassin just use cyanide or arsenic oxide?

No, whoever did it was either stupid for trying to cause pain with a serious deadly chemical (acid would have done nicely) or stupid for doing crappy work on finishing the job
By acid I'm assuming you're referring to the sterotyped concept of acid, not a substance with a pH below 7 or LSD. The acidity of Coke is around 2.5, which is actually quite acidic. And LSD would've just made him feel good. So I guess you wanted them to feed him pure hydrochloric acid or something along those lines. And what is wrong with using a potentially lethal substance to cause disfigurement and discomfiture? What if they didn't want to kill him, just give him a non-lethal dose? Especially since they might get in trouble for an assassination if he was.

And what if he wasn't poisoned at all? There's no conclusive proof. I admit it's a bit of a coincidence, but still...

I personally hadn't heard of it before this incident. Why didn't the would-be assassin just use cyanide or arsenic oxide?
Arsenic stays in the bloodstream and can even be detected after cremation. Also, it leaves distinctive markings that most toxicologists would recognise (the dioxin screwed up the guy's face, but it isn't nearly as definitive). Cyanide turns you blue, so that is obvious if you aren't trying to kill the man. It also stays in the blood as it attaches to haemoglobin.

On another note, people can become 'resistant' to cyanide poisoning, and both would have been right at the top of poisons checked when he came away from the questioning, along with things like stricknine (sp? not likely)

EDIT: Yeah, baby! 900 fookin posts!

By acid I'm assuming you're referring to the sterotyped concept of acid, not a substance with a pH below 7 or LSD. The acidity of Coke is around 2.5, which is actually quite acidic. And LSD would've just made him feel good. So I guess you wanted them to feed him pure hydrochloric acid or something along those lines. And what is wrong with using a potentially lethal substance to cause disfigurement and discomfiture? What if they didn't want to kill him, just give him a non-lethal dose? Especially since they might get in trouble for an assassination if he was.

And what if he wasn't poisoned at all? There's no conclusive proof. I admit it's a bit of a coincidence, but still...
Sorry, by acid I meant highly concentrated small external doses of any strong acid (full dissociation thing). And using potentially lethal chemicals for disfigurature is plain sloppy, on the torture front. You don't want to accidentally kill the man. Any anaesthetist will tell you its very difficult to work out how much of a drug is needed. You need to know things like BMI, fat levels, previous health conditions etc. for some drugs, and even then it isn't reliable

On another note, people can become 'resistant' to cyanide poisoning, and both would have been right at the top of poisons checked when he came away from the questioning, along with things like stricknine (sp? not likely)

How do you gain immunity to cyanide?

How do you gain immunity to cyanide?
not immunity. Poison tasters back in the days of paranoid middle ages kings became resistant to things like that. I don't know how. Some things you can't become resistant to, but you can with HCN. I think. Or it may be with arsenic. Its one of the major poisons, anyway

Sorry, by acid I meant highly concentrated small external doses of any strong acid (full dissociation thing).
Ahh, ok. Again, I'm just assuming that you mean a caustic substance, which can be alkaline or acidic, since, as I said before, Coke is actually a strong acid, but no disfigurement occurs. The problem with that scenerio is that they can't poison his food or anything. They'd have to get him alone and do that, or whatever, and then he'd be able to conclusively say that he was. And if they did something such as do that to his water for bathing, it could kill him, and the terrible burning from the alleged water would be extremely conclusive as to whether it was done by a human or not. Ingesting something that will only show severe symptoms after there are no more residues in the body is the only effective way to do it.

Arsenic stays in the bloodstream and can even be detected after cremation.

Arsenic tends to be detectable especially in the hair. I thought the point was to kill Yushenko anyway. Whether or not he died, the poisoner has the same change of getting caught (however good or bad that is).

Ahh, ok. Again, I'm just assuming that you mean a caustic substance, which can be alkaline or acidic, since, as I said before, Coke is actually a strong acid, but no disfigurement occurs. The problem with that scenerio is that they can't poison his food or anything. They'd have to get him alone and do that, or whatever, and then he'd be able to conclusively say that he was. And if they did something such as do that to his water for bathing, it could kill him, and the terrible burning from the alleged water would be extremely conclusive as to whether it was done by a human or not. Ingesting something that will only show severe symptoms after there are no more residues in the body is the only effective way to do it.
He was 'questioned' by the official police force. It was supposedly then that he was poisoned. He went into custody looking like the before shot, and left looking like the after

Arsenic tends to be detectable especially in the hair. I thought the point was to kill Yushenko anyway. Whether or not he died, the poisoner has the same change of getting caught (however good or bad that is).
They couldn't have killed him. The mob would have torn the govt. apart

Then what was the point? Mess up his face so no one will love him anymore?

Then what was the point? Mess up his face so no one will love him anymore?
Put him off, I think. Bit of a shit tactic really. If you don't have the balls to go through with something, you might as well not do it. It may have been a combination of an attempt to scare yu-can'tspellthisbit-ko and his followers:
"Look what happened to your lovely leader, we can do this to you too" sort of thing

Well, I was rather neutral on this topic initially, but now I support Yushenko and his now-ugly face. I know what you mean about spelling these names... both have the first name Viktor and last names beginning with Y. Politically, they're night and day, though.

Put him off, I think. Bit of a shit tactic really. If you don't have the balls to go through with something, you might as well not do it. It may have been a combination of an attempt to scare yu-can'tspellthisbit-ko and his followers:
"Look what happened to your lovely leader, we can do this to you too" sort of thing
Or perhaps they wanted to make him suffer so that he wouldn't be able to campaign as well, and affect people who might support him on a subliminal level. Though they mightn't realise it, they would be put off if the candidate was so disfigured. People really do make judgements like that, as shallow as it may be.

Or perhaps they wanted to make him suffer so that he wouldn't be able to campaign as well, and affect people who might support him on a subliminal level. Though they mightn't realise it, they would be put off if the candidate was so disfigured. People really do make judgements like that, as shallow as it may be.
life is pain, as, er, someone said...

no-one, strangely enough, has linked the poisoning back to the ever more secretive less democratic russia, yet. Surprising, really, considering their past events and major research into biological and chemical weaponry

not immunity. Poison tasters back in the days of paranoid middle ages kings became resistant to things like that. I don't know how. Some things you can't become resistant to, but you can with HCN. I think. Or it may be with arsenic. Its one of the major poisons, anyway

Kind of like the snake venom guys.

I remember watching one guy that has collected venom of years. He is been bitten so much that it doesn't bother him.

In fact the show showed him getting bit and he went on working.

There are probably enough elements just within Ukraine to do that.

Edit: This was a reply to Longton.

Kind of like the snake venom guys.

I remember watching one guy that has collected venom of years. He is been bitten so much that it doesn't bother him.

In fact the show showed him getting bit and he went on working.
That's a bit different, though. Snake venom often has antigens, so your immune system can work on that (antigens are proteins, I think). Cyanide is only just an organic molecule, let alone one as complex as a protein, and Arsenic Oxide is inorganic. I think that something else must happen there, although what it is I do not know

There are probably enough elements within the Ukraine to do that
Meaning? :confused:

EDIT: Oh, you mean political elements. I thought you meant atom-types

Meaning? :confused:

EDIT: Oh, you mean political elements. I thought you meant atom-types

Da, comrade. Ukraine does have deposits of uranium, right? That isn't really relevant, in any case.

Da, comrade. Ukraine does have deposits of uranium, right? That isn't really relevant, in any case.
If I was going to kill yu-whatever, I would airdrop him in a sealed wooden crate on the chenobyl plant's doorstep. The collect the corpse in 3 days

Cyanide is only just an organic molecule, let alone one as complex as a protein, and Arsenic Oxide is inorganic. I think that something else must happen there, although what it is I do not know
Venom and organic and inorganic poisons operate differenly. They aren't relative.

There are different types of dioxin. One of the most common (or best known) is TCDD which is a known carcinogen, dioxin is used in DDT, PCB's and "Agent Orange" as well...

A fatal dose of dioxin could be around 0.1 mcg, especially tetrachlorodibenzo. Even a small dose would kill a person.

There are different types of dioxin. One of the most common (or best known) is TCDD which is a known carcinogen, dioxin is used in DDT, PCB's and "Agent Orange" as well...

A fatal dose of dioxin could be around 0.1 mcg, especially tetrachlorodibenzo. Even a small dose would kill a person.
This is what makes it very desireable. A tiny amount can kill, it works pretty quickly, its not easy to detect (unlike arsneic which has a distinctive taste). I think I heard that its also fat-soluble, which means that it'll dissolve easily into soup or something like that.

This is what makes it very desireable. A tiny amount can kill, it works pretty quickly, its not easy to detect (unlike arsneic which has a distinctive taste). I think I heard that its also fat-soluble, which means that it'll dissolve easily into soup or something like that.
Yeah I read something that specifically mentioned cream soup, and how the poison dissolves easily in it. It was either from a CNN article or BBC.

I think I heard that its also fat-soluble, which means that it'll dissolve easily into soup or something like that.
I hate fat-soluble poisons! They are what make some pesticides so horrible for the environment as they move up the food chain.