NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi all, I want to ask for your advice. The situation is as follows:

I used to live in a house where the landlord was a bit 'dodgy'. Rent was paid cash in hand, he never fixed anything that broken, and he was generally a bit of a scammer. He also tried to sell us illegal drugs (speed for one) and viagra. (he worked full time in a pharmacy in the neighbouring town). This was all well over two years ago, and for many reasons I've long since moved out and was planning to never have anything to do with the house or the people involved with it ever again.

So anyway I got a letter from the council today and it turns out that my ex landlord is being investigated for benefit fraud, and the council want me to go speak to them.

I know stuff that could be pretty incriminating in a certain context but no actual knowledge or proof that he was fraudulently claiming. So do I go to the council, tell them the complete truth and see what they do with the information, which could possibly see him prosecuted?

Or do I mind my own business and say to the council that I don't know anything about any benefit fraud and leave it at that? Bearing in mind that it's two weeks before christmas and the guy has a wife and kids.

I'm inclined towards the total honesty option, and let the council do what they will, but the fact of his family bothers me, can I contribute to a family suffering? Plus the community he's a part of is pretty close knit, if he or they knew I had contributed to that I don't know how well it would go down.

Suggestions?

He also tried to sell us illegal drugs (speed for one) and viagra. (he worked full time in a pharmacy in the neighbouring town).
Well, amphetamines are not illegal, just a controlled substance. Unless you're referring to methamphetamines, which are. And I'm pretty sure that aphrodisiacs like Viagra are not illegal, but I really don't know much about that.

As to your question, I think that only you can decide. You must consider what you think is more important.

If they are not investigating his drug selling, then there is absolutely no reason for you to tell them.

If they ask you about it tell them the truth, but I don't think it would be quite right to go in and just spill everything on him.

Well, amphetamines are not illegal, just a controlled substance. Unless you're referring to methamphetamines, which are. And I'm pretty sure that aphrodisiacs like Viagra are not illegal, but I really don't know much about that.

As to your question, I think that only you can decide. You must consider what you think is more important.


in this country amphetamines are not available without prescriptions. to sell them is illegal.

in this country amphetamines are not available without prescriptions. to sell them is illegal.
Ok, it must have just been ambiguous wording. You said that he was selling "illegal drugs", and I interpreted that to mean that the drug he was trying to sell was illegal, not the fact that he was selling it illegally.

Ok, it must have just been ambiguous wording. You said that he was selling "illegal drugs", and I interpreted that to mean that the drug he was trying to sell was illegal, not the fact that he was selling it illegally.

to be honest the drug thing is really not the point, i included that to give people an image of the type of person he is, not to suggest i'm going to fit him up for selling drugs.

If you have specific information about benefit fraud then you should probably (when requested) tell the relevent authorities what you know. If however you dont have specific definite information, I think you should stay out of it. Communities are better places if citizens dont volunteerily inform on their fellows in the case of most non-violent crimes.

Basically if everyone considered that any and every interaction risked them being dobbed in (possibly at some much later date), or required them to be alert for opportunities to dobb others in, our interactions with each other will be much poorer and our society would suffer as a result. People are paid to investigate these matters then ask the right questions of the right people (not merely to ensure wrong doers are caught, but also in part to remove the social strain of policing each other and being policed by each and every one of our fellow citizens.

Unless they ask questions you have answers to, or you are aware of a crime it would be morally abhorrent not to report information about (for instance a hit and run, a murder a violent mugging, the theft of an uninsured solo parents household goods 3 days before Christmas), you should leave investigating and proving the guilt of your fellows to the relevent authorities. They clearly already have suspicions (or they wouldnt be asking you to answer questions about this guy), so your speculative information wont make them look at a case they are not already looking at, and it doesnt appear your information would offer any concrete proof of the charges they appear to be investigating.

If you have specific information about benefit fraud then you should probably (when requested) tell the relevent authorities what you know. If however you dont have specific definite information, I think you should stay out of it. Communities are better places if citizens dont volunteerily inform on their fellows in the case of most non-violent crimes.

Basically if everyone considered that any and every interaction risked them being dobbed in (possibly at some much later date), or required them to be alert for opportunities to dobb others in, our interactions with each other will be much poorer and our society would suffer as a result. People are paid to investigate these matters then ask the right questions of the right people (not merely to ensure wrong doers are caught, but also in part to remove the social strain of policing each other and being policed by each and every one of our fellow citizens.

Unless they ask questions you have answers to, or you are aware of a crime it would be morally abhorrent not to report information about (for instance a hit and run, a murder a violent mugging, the theft of an uninsured solo parents household goods 3 days before Christmas), you should leave investigating and proving the guilt of your fellows to the relevent authorities. They clearly already have suspicions (or they wouldnt be asking you to answer questions about this guy), so your speculative information wont make them look at a case they are not already looking at, and it doesnt appear your information would offer any concrete proof of the charges they appear to be investigating.

isn't defrauding the taxpayer morally abhorant?

You might not be needed as some other ex-tenants might not like him (and hence consider his family) and will be happy to nail him to a legal cross.

If your investigations are like the ones here in the US, the investigators won't be interested in anything other than benefit fraud. If you truthfully answer the questions posed to you and don't volunteer unrelated information, you will probably not have to get into his other activities. If general questions are asked as to his character and activites, however, you would then have to make a decision. My philosophy is always tell the truth and you never have to try to remember your lies. Consider if your failure to give info that you have would in any way implicate you in the coverup or commission of his crimes. Would you be in trouble for not coming forward when he tried to sell you drugs?

The wife is probably aware of what he is doing. It's pretty difficult to hide additional income from a spouse. The kids make it tough, though. Christmas time is a heck of a time for family problems. One way to look at it though, is that, through example, he has been raising a new generation of crooks. For him to be prosecuted and made to pay for his crimes would be an important lesson to his kids as to the consequences of breaking the law. Perhaps you could help organize something on the community level to help them through it?

the issue of his wife knowing or not what's going on is an interesting one. normally i'd say she's bound to know. But this family are of a different ethnicity to mine, and one of the things in their culture is the idea of the woman being second place to the man. the husband is very much the head of the family and the wife doesn't necessarily get told things that 'don't concern her' so i don't know what she does and doesn't know, and as a result of that, how much what i say will impact on the family.

my plan was just that, to answer truthfully and stick to the facts that they ask me for.

isn't defrauding the taxpayer morally abhorant?
Whether or not it is, isnt relevent to my comments. I believe that society needs official organisations to investigate crimes in order to prevent society becoming a bunch of paranoid narks who are constantly looking sideways at their 'friends', neighbours and associates.

My comments with regards to volunteering information (ie no one has asked you about it) is that you shouldnt unless not reporting the crime would be morally abhorrent, for instance someone has been seriously physically harmed or a type of particularily victimising thieft has occured, or a failure to act would in some way endanger individuals. With regards to defrauding the tax payer, you are adding a burden onto your fellows, but you are not directly causing bodily harm to your fellows, nor will the theft result in particularily harsh viololation of someone's interests. The benefit fraud of any one person is unlikely to cost their fellow citizens so much as 1 cent per year. The urgency of apprehending any one benefit fraudster, when compared with the need to maintain a good level of social cohesion pales in the comparison. If you are asked by authorities about benefit fraud and you have definite information you should pass it on, but otherwise keep your nose out. It is undesirable to turn society into a bunch of amateur police and vigilantees, leave the work of enforcing laws and regulations to the organistions created to do as much.

my plan was just that, to answer truthfully and stick to the facts that they ask me for.

An excellent plan, answer if they ask, dont volunteer what they dont ask.

Hi all, I want to ask for your advice. The situation is as follows:

I used to live in a house where the landlord was a bit 'dodgy'. Rent was paid cash in hand, he never fixed anything that broken, and he was generally a bit of a scammer. He also tried to sell us illegal drugs (speed for one) and viagra. (he worked full time in a pharmacy in the neighbouring town). This was all well over two years ago, and for many reasons I've long since moved out and was planning to never have anything to do with the house or the people involved with it ever again.

So anyway I got a letter from the council today and it turns out that my ex landlord is being investigated for benefit fraud, and the council want me to go speak to them.

I know stuff that could be pretty incriminating in a certain context but no actual knowledge or proof that he was fraudulently claiming. So do I go to the council, tell them the complete truth and see what they do with the information, which could possibly see him prosecuted?

Or do I mind my own business and say to the council that I don't know anything about any benefit fraud and leave it at that? Bearing in mind that it's two weeks before christmas and the guy has a wife and kids.

I'm inclined towards the total honesty option, and let the council do what they will, but the fact of his family bothers me, can I contribute to a family suffering? Plus the community he's a part of is pretty close knit, if he or they knew I had contributed to that I don't know how well it would go down.

Suggestions?
My recommendation: since you have no intimate knowledge concerning the things at issue, wait until you're subpoenaed before offering any information.

My recommendation: since you have no intimate knowledge concerning the things at issue, wait until you're subpoenaed before offering any information.


Total agreement with this point. If you are subpoeaned, then answer the questions put to you honestly.

It comes down to this. Do you want to screw the guy over or not? It sounds like you could make his life hell. Maybe his family would be better off without him, maybe not. Only time would tell. Another thing to consider is if he's the type of person who would retaliate against those who testified against him.

Tell what you know about what they ask. It's doubtfull they will ask about the drugs, etc. They would not likely be able to do anything about that anyways. Without coroborating evidence, it's just the word of a former tenet who probably doesn't like the guy. So why bother going down that road.

Be honest. But don't be spiteful.