NationStates Jolt Archive

In Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, Han Solo remarks that the Millenium Falcon is an extremely fast ship, bragging that it made the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs. Most people, at least those who know what a 'parsec' is, wonder what the bloody hell he's talking about. For those who don't know, a parsec is a measurement of distance, not time. 3.26 light-years to be exact. Now, how the hell would that imply any kind of speed? A snail might travel at a speed of only one mile per year, but after a year it has still traveled the exact same distance as a cheetah after one minute (*NOTE* Snails don't actually move that slowly). Speed and distance have no connection. No matter how fast you go the distance never changes. Or does it......?

Okay, it doesn't. But Solos bragging does make sense. Here's why:

The planet Kessel is next to the Maw Cluster. The Maw Cluster is a cluster of black holes. Many, many black holes. For those who don't know, black holes have a lot of gravity. Gravity so intense that even light can not escape once it has gotten close enough. Now, for most matter the point-of-no-return, the distance from the hole where escape is no longer possible, is a lot further from the hole than Lights point-of-no-return since matter moves much more slowly than light. But it's not one fixed spot for all matter. Something which moves very fast can get closer to a black hole than something very slow can.

Here's where we get to the Kessel run. The planet Kessel is the only place in the Galaxy where Glitterstim spice can be found. Glitterstim is a drug that, in addition to making you high as a kite, also gives you a slight telepathic boost for little while. Since the Galactic Empire, a very evil Empire, doesn't want their enemies getting that brief telepathic boost (Spies could be instantly discovered and information easily taken from prisoners) they have pretty much locked up all Spice on the planet. Only the Empire is allowed to use it. This, of course, has lead to a huge black market for the sale of Spice. But how do they get the spice from Kessel, which is guarded by many Imperial warships, to the market? Smugglers. But how do the smugglers, which are outgunned several thousand to one by the Imperial warships, get past the Imperial blockade? By flying close to the Maw Cluster to escape detection. The closer you can get to the Maw the harder it is for the Imperial ships to find and kill you. To be able to get close you need to be able to fly very fast. If you do get close to the Maw, and thus have to travel out of your way very little, then the distance of the total journey is less. Therefor, the less distance you travel on the Kessel Run the faster you were going.

Maybe this diagram will help.

http://67.18.37.17/595/43/upload/p1004228.jpg

The first flight path, on the left, shows a ship going widely around the Maw. A simple ruler will show you that that line is much longer than the line in the second picture on the right. That same second picture shows a flight path which is very near the Maw Cluster. Again, a ruler will show that the flight near the Maw is shorter. Therefore, it is easily inferred that, for the Kessel Run at least, the shorter the distance the faster the ship.

Thank you, and I do so apologize for wasting so much of your time.

In Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, Han Solo remarks that the Millenium Falcon is an extremely fast ship, bragging that it made the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs. Most people, at least those who know what a 'parsec' is, wonder what the bloody hell he's talking about. For those who don't know, a parsec is a measurement of distance, not time. 3.26 light-years to be exact. Now, how the hell would that imply any kind of speed? A snail might travel at a speed of only one mile per year, but after a year it has still traveled the exact same distance as a cheetah after one minute (*NOTE* Snails don't actually move that slowly). Speed and distance have no connection. No matter how fast you go the distance never changes. Or does it......?

Okay, it doesn't. But Solos bragging does make sense. Here's why:

The planet Kessel is next to the Maw Cluster. The Maw Cluster is a cluster of black holes. Many, many black holes. For those who don't know, black holes have a lot of gravity. Gravity so intense that even light can not escape once it has gotten close enough. Now, for most matter the point-of-no-return, the distance from the hole where escape is no longer possible, is a lot further from the hole than Lights point-of-no-return since matter moves much more slowly than light. But it's not one fixed spot for all matter. Something which moves very fast can get closer to a black hole than something very slow can.

Here's where we get to the Kessel run. The planet Kessel is the only place in the Galaxy where Glitterstim spice can be found. Glitterstim is a drug that, in addition to making you high as a kite, also gives you a slight telepathic boost for little while. Since the Galactic Empire, a very evil Empire, doesn't want their enemies getting that brief telepathic boost (Spies could be instantly discovered and information easily taken from prisoners) they have pretty much locked up all Spice on the planet. Only the Empire is allowed to use it. This, of course, has lead to a huge black market for the sale of Spice. But how do they get the spice from Kessel, which is guarded by many Imperial warships, to the market? Smugglers. But how do the smugglers, which are outgunned several thousand to one by the Imperial warships, get past the Imperial blockade? By flying close to the Maw Cluster to escape detection. The closer you can get to the Maw the harder it is for the Imperial ships to find and kill you. To be able to get close you need to be able to fly very fast. If you do get close to the Maw, and thus have to travel out of your way very little, then the distance of the total journey is less. Therefor, the less distance you travel on the Kessel Run the faster you were going.

Maybe this diagram will help.

http://67.18.37.17/595/43/upload/p1004228.jpg

The first flight path, on the left, shows a ship going widely around the Maw. A simple ruler will show you that that line is much longer than the line in the second picture on the right. That same second picture shows a flight path which is very near the Maw Cluster. Again, a ruler will show that the flight near the Maw is shorter. Therefore, it is easily inferred that, for the Kessel Run at least, the shorter the distance the faster the ship.

Thank you, and I do so apologize for wasting so much of your time.

You really need more women. *nod*

That's on eof the many explanations I've heard, and one of my favorites. But here is mine: a parsec is something differenent in the Star Wars (which rocks) universe.

besides needing more women, Han Solo's bragging makes sense because he's a pimp.

Interestingly enough, this is the face I made while reading that:

http://www.unlc.biz/face.jpg
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Interestingly enough, this is the face I made while reading that:

http://www.unlc.biz/face.jpg

Love the explanation, but this is a great reply.

I shyly admit that I've actually wondered this before, and I appreciate the explination. I always just assumed they threw in a really technical sounding word into the script, unaware that they actually used it incorrectly (as a unit of time).

That's on eof the many explanations I've heard, and one of my favorites. But here is mine: a parsec is something differenent in the Star Wars (which rocks) universe.

Or Han just said what he thought would get customers to choose him.

Two options occured to me.

A) The Kessel run is not a prescribed route, but rather a run of goods from Kessel to <whereever>. The route might be heavily patrolled, so large amounts of evasive action would need to be taken. The faster the ship/more skillful the pilot, the shorter the distance you would end up going. Time is not a factor, as long periods of waiting around (which drains little or no fuel) would be necessary, so its the distance travelled that's most important. This is similar, but distinct, from the black hole thing.

B) Solo was just trying to baffle Luke with science

geez you star wars nerds are as bad as christians explaining the biblical basis for the trinity

why cant you just admit that lucas and his script writer didnt know jack about parsecs and they MADE A MISTAKE?

sure you can fudge an explanation that makes some sense but it is justification after the fact of a huge blunder.

Klonor: Good explanation.
Keruvlia: One of the best responses ever.

Han Solo is the best guy in star wars, maybe next to obi wan, but anway hes better than luke, you know why, cuz han solo has the wookie(and his own spaceship)! and the wookie is awesome...imagine, it would be like having Shaquille O'neal follow you around for the day, and doing whatever you told him to(whether you abuse this or not is up to you)...

hmm.. you know what i would like to see? a fight! with Shaq....vs... the U.S. Senate! just cuz hed plow through em!

Wow. You do know that Han Solo never existed in real life, right?

*head explodes*

Christ Almighty that was the nerdiest goddamn post in the history of the internet.

geez you star wars nerds are as bad as christians explaining the biblical basis for the trinity

why cant you just admit that lucas and his script writer didnt know jack about parsecs and they MADE A MISTAKE?

sure you can fudge an explanation that makes some sense but it is justification after the fact of a huge blunder.
Yeah, obviously the reason it was put in was a script error, the question is if that is a film error as well, which this isn't, necessarily.

I fully admit that this is a pretty sad discussion.

geez you star wars nerds are as bad as christians explaining the biblical basis for the trinity

why cant you just admit that lucas and his script writer didnt know jack about parsecs and they MADE A MISTAKE?

sure you can fudge an explanation that makes some sense but it is justification after the fact of a huge blunder.

i dont think their as bad as some christians, not just cuz i might be considered one fo them, cuz i mean at least they can prove what their saying through science(whether this be a fluke or not), unlike the whole bible thing, cuz didnt they recently find ramses son or something(the guy that was killed by biblical plague) and it shows he died of blunt force trauma to the back of the head...so...uhhh yeah?

Interestingly enough, this is the face I made while reading that:

http://www.unlc.biz/face.jpg
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/me laughs.

I love it! :D

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self Proclaimed Court Jester

...

Klonor, considering that we're talking about flights around a singularity, how would relativity get involved? Both distance and time get distorted as objects approach lightspeed.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

*head explodes*

Christ Almighty that was the nerdiest goddamn post in the history of the internet.

*sigh* you obviously get out too much

Yeah, obviously the reason it was put in was a script error, the question is if that is a film error as well, which this isn't, necessarily.

I fully admit that this is a pretty sad discussion.

what does that mean? whats a film error thats not a script error?

oh ive had the discussion before i have some major nerd friends who are way into star wars. i just think its way too "religious" to be bothered with

i dont think their as bad as some christians, not just cuz i might be considered one fo them, cuz i mean at least they can prove what their saying through science(whether this be a fluke or not), unlike the whole bible thing, cuz didnt they recently find ramses son or something(the guy that was killed by biblical plague) and it shows he died of blunt force trauma to the back of the head...so...uhhh yeah?

maybe he was really ramses 1's SECOND born or maybe thats how god killed all the egqyptian first borns. great big whack to the back of the head. thats how *I* would do it if i were god!

maybe he was really ramses 1's SECOND born or maybe thats how god killed all the egqyptian first borns. great big whack to the back of the head. thats how *I* would do it if i were god!

could have been 2nd, though i think they said first, but they could be wrong, but!!! they did say he died of a plague if it was the first born... but if it was the 2nd then god mustve been carrieing a hammer!

gtw

Interestingly enough, this is the face I made while reading that:

http://www.unlc.biz/face.jpg
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Hot Damn, best freaking response I've ever read to a post of mine!

would anyone else like to see Shaquille O'neal against the U.S. senate? anybody????

or maybe to star wars fans, Chewie vs. Shaq

*head explodes*

Christ Almighty that was the nerdiest goddamn post in the history of the internet.
Just sharing in "talk nerdy to me" ....
"I love you!"
"I know." <HISSSSSSSS>
"Who's 'scruffy-looking'?!?"
I think i've taken as much time as i need to with this ....
thanks for the post Klonor. I'd figured it (after being a little bemused by the statement) by looking into the RPG maps. There's a new one, maybe this info's from it.
Wars not make one great.

You really need more women. *nod*

You do know that you're talking to the author of the "I'm going to die a virgin" thread, right?

You do know that you're talking to the author of the "I'm going to die a virgin" thread, right?

well now i feel out of place... ;)

Besides Ross Perot, I think Han Solo is the only one who could defeat Ugoff in combat.

And Klonor?

You never cease to amaze me.

Since the nerdy talk has already started, I'll just add some more:
Fourty-Two.
Nee! Nee! Nee!
Not bad for a little furball, eh?
Yeah, well, it takes only one to sound the alarm.
This is your last chance. Free us... or die.
Watch this! [laser-type engine noises] Woops.
Wonder how they pulled that off.

Cookies to those who can locate, contextualize, and explain any of those quotes.

Wonder how they pulled that off.

Cookies to those who can locate, contextualize, and explain any of those quotes.

ummmm, a fat lady who finally got her wedding ring off?

would anyone else like to see Shaquille O'neal against the U.S. senate? anybody????

or maybe to star wars fans, Chewie vs. Shaq
Chewie would whoop Shaq. His Wookie bowcaster (a type of hgun-thing) would give him the victory. And if he couldn't use it, Chewie could still whoop Shaq any day! YEAH!

real i think he meant parsec as a measure of distance like say in that diagram it showed two possible routes and probably the have to go through a lotta planing for a hyperspace jump so during that time when planning it theyd have to fly all around and once they got the cords theyd jump

ummmm, a fat lady who finally got her wedding ring off?

Wrong.

Chewie would whoop Shaq. His Wookie bowcaster (a type of hgun-thing) would give him the victory. And if he couldn't use it, Chewie could still whoop Shaq any day! YEAH!

well duh if he had his bowcaster...idiot!!!!...its a freakin laser gun!!!...and he would probably win in hand to hand but thats why i want shaq vs. US senate!!!!

Nee! Nee! Nee!
Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Love the explanation, but this is a great reply.

Hot Damn, best freaking response I've ever read to a post of mine!

Thank you thank you ... now and then I get one right.

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*squeal* My first award! :D :D

Wrong.

f*ck, was i close??? :D

Damnit, I want a Semi-Official Stamp of Approval! I want it now!

f*ck, was i close??? :D
Nope. Hint: Stolen Imperial ship.

Damnit, I want a Semi-Official Stamp of Approval! I want it now!


Well I couldn't have gotten mine without you, so I guess we both win. :D

No, we don't! It has to be all me! Nobody else! Me! Me! ME! ME! ME! ME!

FYI: I'm being purposefully petulant right now

Fourty-Two.

That would be the answer to the great question of life, the universe, and everything. The question is, of course, "What is 6 x 7?"

Nee! Nee! Nee!

Defunct phrase used by passing roughians to harrass old women.

Not bad for a little furball, eh?

A delightful double entendra about an Ewok and a distraction effort.

Ugh ... never mind ... I've had enough cookies ...

I didn't give them to you yet. So, now I do. One of them is a keylogger. Another downloads large amounts of really messed up images onto your compy and sets them as the desktop. The last one plays Britney Spears at top volume.

Here's a question for ya:

Why did the makers of Star Wars feel the need to rip off Spice from the Dune novels? Granted, the way its described isn't exactly the same, but its pretty damn close.

Krupp

Star Wars is just one huge rip-off. It rips the Foundation Trilogy, Hidden Fortress, Dune, and a dozen other things.

Besides, spice is only described in the novels. In the movies it's just mentioned with no description.

No no no.

The answer is: Shaq IS a Wookie, who got dumped in a vat of nair, and took speech therapy.

geez you star wars nerds are as bad as christians explaining the biblical basis for the trinity

why cant you just admit that lucas and his script writer didnt know jack about parsecs and they MADE A MISTAKE?

sure you can fudge an explanation that makes some sense but it is justification after the fact of a huge blunder.

Actually, I'd have to go look it up, but I believe it was intentional -- Han was BSing and got caught in it (look at Obi-Wan's reaction).

Since the nerdy talk has already started, I'll just add some more:
Fourty-Two.
Nee! Nee! Nee!
Not bad for a little furball, eh?
Yeah, well, it takes only one to sound the alarm.
This is your last chance. Free us... or die.
Watch this! [laser-type engine noises] Woops.
Wonder how they pulled that off.

Cookies to those who can locate, contextualize, and explain any of those quotes.

1) The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.
2) Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the Knights who say Ni!
3) Han Solo, about Wicket, distracting the Biker Scouts by taking off with a speeder bike.
4) Dunno -- prolly outside the shield station on Endor, just before Wicket distracts the guards....
5) Luke, just before levitating Threepio and having the Ewoks accept him as a God?
6) LOL the Millenium Falcon's hyperspace engines crapping out?
7) Dunno

6) LOL the Millenium Falcon's hyperspace engines crapping out?


I think it was actually the hyperdrive crapping out but yeah

I shyly admit that I've actually wondered this before, and I appreciate the explination. I always just assumed they threw in a really technical sounding word into the script, unaware that they actually used it incorrectly (as a unit of time).

That's exactly what happened, and the SW fans have been trying to explain it away ever since.

Star Trek is at least just as bad, BTW.

Klonor, considering that we're talking about flights around a singularity, how would relativity get involved? Both distance and time get distorted as objects approach lightspeed.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Wow.....talk 'bout Gravedigging. You know, I don't think I ever responded to this.

A good point Cog, but in Star Wars ships never actually approach the Speed of Light. The way Star Wars FTL works is that ships never really even get close to relativistic speeds. What they do is transfer to Hyperspace, an alternate dimension co-existing with our dimension, and fly around in there for a while before re-emerging into Real Space. Each point in Real Space has a corresponding point in Hyperspace with the distances between corresponding points much smaller in Hyperspace than in Real Space. Example: You Enter Hyperspace just outside your house, fly one mile in Hyperspace, and when you come back into Real Space you're five miles away from your house (This wouldn't actually work for multiple reasons, and the scale of Hyper-to-Real Space is not 5:1, this is just a non-techie explanation). The faster you move in Hyperspace does correspond to faster movement in Real Space, but you're still traveling well under Light Speed while in Hyperspace.

Now, I hear you asking, if you're in Hyperspace, which isn't Real Space, why would you need to fly around the Maw (which is in Real Space)? It's because Real Space does exert forces upon Hyperspace, and gravity (Which the Maw has plenty of) is the most noticeable of forces. In fact, the gravity emitted from planet size (and greater) masses (Including Stars and Black Holes) exerts such a strong pull on Hyperspace that it physically rips matter in Hyperspace back into Real Space, where the matter is usually destroyed because it's pulled back into Real Space either in, or very close to, a planet, star, or black hole. So, while a black holes gravity does not cause relativistic distortions in Hyperspace, if you get to close to the corresponding point in Hyperspace your ship will still be destroyed and how close can get is still determined by how fast you're moving (in Hyperspace).

1) The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.
2) Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the Knights who say Ni!
3) Han Solo, about Wicket, distracting the Biker Scouts by taking off with a speeder bike.
4) Leia being cautious about the scouts in the forrest
5) Before Luke kills Jabba's guards
6) LOL the Millenium Falcon's hyperdrive crapping out
7) Leia about how the rebels stole the Shuttle and the location of the deathstar
better

I'm enjoying these explinations...the fact of which both horrifies and intrigues me.

To think, someone is a nerdy as myself.

Oh well, at least this isn't about how "in/out of character" any given line in Dynasty Warriors is. My friends and I endlessly discuss such matters, the what ifs and you've gotta be kidding me's of the Three kingdoms.

So for those keeping track, we're discussing characters in a video game, based on a book, based on popular ledgends of a period of history almost 1900 years in the past.

And on each and every stage of that Nerd-Journey to the past I know more than any sane or rational person ever should. Its sad really.

I made a seven page post comparing the weaponry from Halo: Combat Evolved to Halo2. Beat that.

I made a seven page post comparing the weaponry from Halo: Combat Evolved to Halo2. Beat that.

I wrote a 55 page essay comparing the video games to the book and the plays. I spoke in front of my graduating class at University about it, and I'm credited with advancing the "Five Phase theory" body of research in this period of Chinese classics.

Consider it beat.

I concede defeat on that point. Damn you! People usually shudder when faced with my NS Halo posts.

Very well, you force me to bring out the slightly-larger-than-previous guns!

I once wrote a cross-genre novel detailing the activites of Isaac Asimovs Foundation characters when faced with a self-fulfilling prophecy during a mysterious visit to Ancient Rome. Included within the story was an in-depth examination of the basic structure of the Roman Republic as it developed into the Empire and the reign of the Ceasars, as well as the methods of Christianity in its attempt to gain favor within Rome and the evolution of the Roman customs and traditions into the traditions of the Church. It detailed how the fall of the Roman Empire, though lost within the mists of time by the Foundation Era, still laid the groundwork for future society (Okay, this was a pretty easy novel to write since Foundation was actually based on the Fall of the Roman Empire, but it's 5:42 in the morning right now and most of my Nerdier actions are kind of fuzzy within my mind). It also pretty much gave Hari Seldon sole credit for inventing cheese, but I like cheese and I like Hari so you can't make me change it!

I concede defeat on that point. Damn you! People usually shudder when faced with my NS Halo posts.

Very well, you force me to bring out the slightly-larger-than-previous guns!

Pretty cool actually. :) I'm in the same league there. My writings include an as-now trilogy of books featuring my friends as superheroes of dubious quality.

Also I have few a major projects on the back burner. One is a "fanfic" similar to yours. I am writing a sequel to Final Fantasy 4, writing out the entire script and designing key game mechanics; I hope to eventually sell it to square or get rights to publish a book based on it. (A pipe dream perhaps, but the product is solid)

My other project is more serious in nature, I'm releasing a book that compares the battle plans and strucutral reforms of Donald Rumsfeld to the precepts and guidelines laid down by Sun-Tzu's Art of War. Using his own writing, trascripts from government meetings and interviews with him. I'm halfway done with the draft.

So yeah, perhaps I beat you on that one, but I think we may be equal geeks ;)

Oh BTW, I read and saved your Halo Posts. Using them to help my group of friends learn more about some of the game mechanics involved. Because of your writing, I have a newfound respect for the SMG/Plasma Rifle Combo.

Good stuff.

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heheheh! does he always do that?

Most people, at least those who know what a 'parsec' is, wonder what the bloody hell he's talking about.

No shit!




For those who don't know, a parsec is a measurement of distance, not time. 3.26 light-years to be exact. Now, how the hell would that imply any kind of speed? A snail might travel at a speed of only one mile per year, but after a year it has still traveled the exact same distance as a cheetah after one minute (*NOTE* Snails don't actually move that slowly).


You're right. One snail with racing stripes on it's shell beat me in a quarter mile challenge once. Fast buggers those snails.



Okay, it doesn't. But Solos bragging does make sense. Here's why:

The planet Kessel is next to the Maw Cluster. The Maw Cluster is a cluster of black holes. Many, many black holes. For those who don't know, black holes have a lot of gravity. Gravity so intense that even light can not escape once it has gotten close enough. Now, for most matter the point-of-no-return, the distance from the hole where escape is no longer possible, is a lot further from the hole than Lights point-of-no-return since matter moves much more slowly than light. But it's not one fixed spot for all matter. Something which moves very fast can get closer to a black hole than something very slow can.

Here's where we get to the Kessel run. The planet Kessel is the only place in the Galaxy where Glitterstim spice can be found. Glitterstim is a drug that, in addition to making you high as a kite, also gives you a slight telepathic boost for little while. Since the Galactic Empire, a very evil Empire, doesn't want their enemies getting that brief telepathic boost (Spies could be instantly discovered and information easily taken from prisoners) they have pretty much locked up all Spice on the planet. Only the Empire is allowed to use it. This, of course, has lead to a huge black market for the sale of Spice. But how do they get the spice from Kessel, which is guarded by many Imperial warships, to the market? Smugglers. But how do the smugglers, which are outgunned several thousand to one by the Imperial warships, get past the Imperial blockade? By flying close to the Maw Cluster to escape detection. The closer you can get to the Maw the harder it is for the Imperial ships to find and kill you. To be able to get close you need to be able to fly very fast. If you do get close to the Maw, and thus have to travel out of your way very little, then the distance of the total journey is less. Therefor, the less distance you travel on the Kessel Run the faster you were going.

Maybe this diagram will help.

http://67.18.37.17/595/43/upload/p1004228.jpg

The first flight path, on the left, shows a ship going widely around the Maw. A simple ruler will show you that that line is much longer than the line in the second picture on the right. That same second picture shows a flight path which is very near the Maw Cluster. Again, a ruler will show that the flight near the Maw is shorter. Therefore, it is easily inferred that, for the Kessel Run at least, the shorter the distance the faster the ship.


That was fun. Seriously, it was.



I do so apologize for wasting so much of your time.

Perhaps you should have put that at the top of your post, as a sort of disclaimer?

heheheh! does he always do that?

Nah, only when somebody really deserves it. I've yet to earn a single one, and I've had threads that consisted of nothing but pictures of The Fonz!

The State of It, I figure all of NS is an "Enter at your own risk" sort of place, if you're not prepared for something that'll rot your brain stem then you shouldn't be on here in the first place ;)

Oh BTW, I read and saved your Halo Posts. Using them to help my group of friends learn more about some of the game mechanics involved. Because of your writing, I have a newfound respect for the SMG/Plasma Rifle Combo.

Good stuff.

Another good trick, often underestimated as well, is the Plasma Pistol/Assault Rifle combo. While you can't dual wield them, the Assault Rifle is a two-handed weapon, it is extremely effective. What you do is fully charge the Plasma Pistol, not dual wielding it with anything else, and take down your opponents shield with one shot. Then you press 'Y' (on the default controller setting) and switch to the Assault Rifle which you had as your other weapon. One shot, two if you hit them in the toe or something like that, and they drop like a sack of potatoes.

Another good trick, often underestimated as well, is the Plasma Pistol/Assault Rifle combo. While you can't dual wield them, the Assault Rifle is a two-handed weapon, it is extremely effective. What you do is fully charge the Plasma Pistol, not dual wielding it with anything else, and take down your opponents shield with one shot. Then you press 'Y' (on the default controller setting) and switch to the Assault Rifle which you had as your other weapon. One shot, two if you hit them in the two or something like that, and they drop like a sack of potatoes.

That's one I've been killed with a few times.

I think even more effective is Plasma pistol/Handgun combos. Its literally a two shot kill if you get the handgun shot in the head. Usually I fire off a bunch of shots with the handgun, just to be sure though...;)

Basically ANYTHING with the Plasma pistol from the human side is effective. Even plasma Rifles with plasma pistol is a decent combo. The pistol's overcharge shot simply makes it the best "secondary" weapon in the multiplayer mode. Its great for killing Juggernaughts with Extra Shielding or anyone with an overshield in general.

Yup. Basic stuff, that. The Plasma pistol is fairly unbalanced in that sense though, since it can completely negate ANY amount of shielding in one shot anywhere on the body. That and the charge shot has limited homing capabilities.

Only the Covenant sniper rifle has comparable power per hit, I believe it can get a one-hit kill if you tag 'em in the head.

Have you gotten the recent update for multiplayer? Between the new maps and the new rules, I think things have changed quite a bit. The new "melee trumps just about anything in power" rule has really made close combat more fun. I've tested out the power ranges, even pistols and SMGs can get 3 hit kills on fully shielded targets now, 2 if you're running up to them on both hits.

Strangely enough Shotguns still kick ass. I would think that they'd be surpassed by the new melee rules...perhaps they made the shotgun spread less wildly unpredictable or something?

Actually, they severely limited the homing capability for the Plasma Pistol for 2, in Combat Evolved it had almost as much seeking ability as the Rocket Launcher does in 2, whereas now it might twitch a bit to the side if your target doesn't try to dodge it.

Regarding the Shotun, that's one of the things that I truly despise about 2. While pig-ignorant of guns in real life, people I know who aren't pig-ignorant have assured me that an 8-Gauge Shotgun is more powerful than a 12-Gauge (Provided you haven't fitted the 12-Gauge with explosive shells and whatnot) whereas in 2, when the Shotgun has supposedly been upgraded to an 8 from a 12 in Combat Evolved, the Shotgun is noticeably weaker than the Shotgun in Combat Evolved. Still a one-hit kill if at point blank, it loses any capability for serious damage at even less of a distance than the supposedly less powerful model in use in Combat Evolved. The Combat Evolved Shotgun is useful for engaging enemies at "close to mid-range" (To quote the instruction booklet) whereas the 2 Shotgun is for close range and that's it. It has less versatility than almost anything else, it's the only gun where you can't use it all outside of its specified areas.

Actually, they severely limited the homing capability for the Plasma Pistol for 2, in Combat Evolved it had almost as much seeking ability as the Rocket Launcher does in 2, whereas now it might twitch a bit to the side if your target doesn't try to dodge it.

Regarding the Shotun, that's one of the things that I truly despise about 2.

The "Upgrades" of the storyline were all bogus anyway. The pistol is less powerful, loses that amazing zoom option, the SMG and Battle Rifle are the successors to the always popular "shredder rounds" of the Assult Rifle. I've seen the Battle Rifle used effectively, though I can't use it worth a damn, and the SMG is the shitties weapon ever.

Every other weapon has also been tweaked. And most of them have pluses to go with the minuses. The shotgun was truly savaged by 2 though, you're right.

The only way to think of the shotgun is a poor man's sword. Its used in the exact same capacity, but the sword has "lunge" and the shotgun has a little range. Problem is, the shotgun is notoriusly unreliable even at minimum range. I've literally placed the muzzle of the gun against peoples backs and shot 3 times without killing them. Yet at the same time, its capable of 1 hit kills. A fustrating roll of the dice, every time you pull the trigger.

Back to SW... reading this, I just HAVE to wonder, hasn't anyone in here read the Han Solo trilogy by AC Crispin? In the second book, The Hutt Gambit, she sets up the physics of the Maw, and in the third book she actually chronicles the time Han broke the record for travelling the Kessel Run.

Her logic, being spread throughout a novel, is extensive but basically boils down to: Because the black holes bend light and matter, they also have small effects on space-time (if you've ever seen those lovely wire-diagrams of a black hole you can visualize it much more clearly) and so by shaving dangerously close to the various black holes along the Run (which he did in the novel to shake Imperial pursuit) he actually cut the distance by a significant amount, with out technically taking a 'shortcut.' As the name implies the Kessel Run is a set path... because that whole area is really bloody dangerous. So he followed the same path, but the seat-of-his-pants flying he did by the black holes made his Run shorter, hence the bragging.

Summer Guns, that's pretty much exactly what I said. That, because the ship was so fast and he was such a good pilot, he was able to get closer to the holes than anybody else.

You really need more women. *nod*

Golden. Sheer gold.

I was surprised you guys got 5 pages into a discussion without anyone really bringing in the novels. However that could just be because I'm a huge dork when it comes to the novels. All my guy friends - even the nerdy ones - make fun of me for it. :-D

There's not even one page of discussion on this actual topic, it's all either Halo or Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy or random Star Wars Trivia, barely anything on the Kessel Run apart from "Wow, good post" and "George Lucas just screwed up when writing the script and people are trying to cover it."

Besides, like I said, you didn't say anything that I didn't say except that you provided a source. Bringing up the novels wasn't really necessary unless somebody tried to dispute my statements and requested a source for verification.........Okay, it's also that all my novels were in a different state when I was writing the post and I didn't want to bother actually thinking to remember what was said in what book, but we just won't pay much attention to that right now.

<SNIP>.

Are you this bored in real life? Back in the late 70s/early80s movies were considered realistic if they actually showed the hero stopping to reload his gun instead of firing a million shots from a 6 shot revolver.

And, time and distance are interchangeable if you keep speed constant. So the 12 parsec thing can be viewed as a rating on the Falcons warp(or whatever) drive.

Maybe the parsec thing is a referance to how far/or little the drives on the Falcon had to bend space in order to complete the run

Its a movie, and a damn good one. Why not wast your time wondering how much the "force" is going to mess around with quantum theory. Clearly, Heisenberg is shot to hell when the "force" comes into play. I mean, the "force" is collapsing quantum states left and right in the macro world. For that matter, Schroedinger's cat is also screwed..badly. Poor kitty.

/me laughs.

I love it! :D

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self Proclaimed Court Jester

...

Klonor, considering that we're talking about flights around a singularity, how would relativity get involved? Both distance and time get distorted as objects approach lightspeed.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

That is relativity. The relationship between time, distance and velocity.

Its been too long since college physics and I dont want to make a further fool of myself.

Still get confused about the whole thing of moving at a relatavistic(to the speed of C) speeds with refererance to one frame. Doesnt that mean that the other frame is also moving at a relatavistic speed? Shouldnt time dilate for both frames of referance?

good thing I was a finance major, balance sheets are much easier..but boring.

Since the nerdy talk has already started, I'll just add some more:
Fourty-Two.
Nee! Nee! Nee!
Not bad for a little furball, eh?
Yeah, well, it takes only one to sound the alarm.
This is your last chance. Free us... or die.
Watch this! [laser-type engine noises] Woops.
Wonder how they pulled that off.

Cookies to those who can locate, contextualize, and explain any of those quotes.

1. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
2> Monty Python and the Holy Grail
3. Return of the Jedi (after Wicket steals a speeder bike)
4. Star Wars (A New Hope) (Han, Chewie and Luke preparing to bluff their way into the prison block)
5. Empire Strikes Back (Jabba's Barge)
6. Empire Strikes Back (Hyperdrive failure)
7. Not sure.

i was reading through this thread thinking that it had been a long time since this stupid topic came up and that its odd that anyone should be so invested in explaining a script error that occurred 30 years ago when i came across this post that said everything i would say in a nice succinct manner


geez you star wars nerds are as bad as christians explaining the biblical basis for the trinity

why cant you just admit that lucas and his script writer didnt know jack about parsecs and they MADE A MISTAKE?

sure you can fudge an explanation that makes some sense but it is justification after the fact of a huge blunder.

then i realized it was so good because it was MINE and this stupid thread had been gravedug from last fall

if you want to discuss a topic why cant you just start it over again like the anti-abortion people do?

the deja-vu could kill me!

Ashmoria, nobody is forcing you to post in this thread, or to even read this thread. Why do you need to complain about it?

i was reading through this thread thinking that it had been a long time since this stupid topic came up and that its odd that anyone should be so invested in explaining a script error that occurred 30 years ago when i came across this post that said everything i would say in a nice succinct manner




then i realized it was so good because it was MINE and this stupid thread had been gravedug from last fall

if you want to discuss a topic why cant you just start it over again like the anti-abortion people do?

the deja-vu could kill me!I would rather have one long thread to read then 20 short threads repeating each other.

what does that mean? whats a film error thats not a script error?

SW IV ANH: Luke's magic cup trick while havin dinner with his aunt & uncle.

SW V EST: Han Solo's magic vest trick before he gets frozen (and has one of the best lines ever spoken: "I love you..." - "I know.")

You like Han Solo because he's a scoundrel. There aren't enough scoundrels in your lives.

You really need more women. *nod*I'm sorry.... I thought Klonor was female. Am I mistaken? Or is she a lesbian?

A good point Cog, but in Star Wars ships never actually approach the Speed of Light. The way Star Wars FTL works is that....I see. So, Star Wars canon holds that while normal space objects can exert gravitational forces on objects in hyperspace, gravity doesn't distort hyperspace?

I wrote a 55 page essay comparing the video games to the book and the plays. I spoke in front of my graduating class at University about it, and I'm credited with advancing the "Five Phase theory" body of research in this period of Chinese classics.

Consider it beat.If I had time to read such a thing, I would ask for a copy.
Nah, only when somebody really deserves it. I've yet to earn a single one, and I've had threads that consisted of nothing but pictures of The Fonz!It's usually for stuff that sends me into a fit of snickering, sniggering, and/or laughing.

Another good trick, often underestimated as well, is the Plasma Pistol/Assault Rifle combo. While you can't....I don't play Halo, but my brothers do. I'll have to refer them to your posts.

That is relativity. The relationship between time, distance and velocity.I know that! :p I meant: How, exactly, does relativity come into play? Would it make things easier for Han? Harder? What?

As it is, Klonor says that relativity wouldn't have an effect.

SW IV ANH: Luke's magic cup trick while havin dinner with his aunt & uncle.

SW V EST: Han Solo's magic vest trick before he gets frozen (and has one of the best lines ever spoken: "I love you..." - "I know.")In other words, prop placement errors. Movies are filmed over long periods of time, usually months. Ant given scene will be refilmed many different times and the best attempt from each scene used in the final cut. Unfortunately, the props used are not always reset to what they should have been for each scene. This causes glitches to show up in the final cut, like a cup moving from one place to another. In the case of Han Solos vest suddenly changing, that would be due to Harrison Ford putting on the wrong vest the day that scene was filmed.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

Ashmoria, nobody is forcing you to post in this thread, or to even read this thread. Why do you need to complain about it?
i believe i explained why i read and posted in this thread

i was under the impression that gravedigging was against the rules. (not that i understand why)

You like Han Solo because he's a scoundrel. There aren't enough scoundrels in your lives.and you like who?

...Luke ? :D

SW V EST: Han Solo's magic vest trick before he gets frozen (and has one of the best lines ever spoken: "I love you..." - "I know.")
I remember reading ages ago about that line. Apparently Lucas had written a long maudlin reply, but when Harrison Ford read it, he turned to George and told him that he can make good movies but he can't write for shit. Then Ford changed the lines to the classic one above.
I have to agree with Harrison on Lucas' ability to write - JarJarBinks, anyone?

I'm sorry.... I thought Klonor was female. Am I mistaken? Or is she a lesbian?

Dude, if you ever figure this out, please let me know. Even I'm confused.

I see. So, Star Wars canon holds that while normal space objects can exert gravitational forces on objects in hyperspace, gravity doesn't distort hyperspace?

It does distort Hyperspace, but only in making it untravelable and unstable for matter in Hyperspace. It doesn't distort it the same way as it distorts Real Space (That being the relativistic effects you asked about)


It's usually for stuff that sends me into a fit of snickering, sniggering, and/or laughing.

And The Fonz doesn't? Come on, have you even seen his hair?

I don't play Halo, but my brothers do. I'll have to refer them to your posts.

Yay, I'm being helpful! w00t!

Dude, if you ever figure this out, please let me know. Even I'm confused.O_o

I trust that it's your sexual orientation that you're confused about and not your gender?

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

...

i believe i explained why i read and posted in this thread

i was under the impression that gravedigging was against the rules. (not that i understand why)
If I remember correctly, gravedigging per se is not against the rules if you have something significant to contribute to the discussion.

Making a pointless post in any topic is slightly frowned upon; gravedigging in the process makes it more strongly frowned upon (but doesn't necessarily result in an official warning).

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Cog, I think you're a bit out of the loop, so I'll fill you in. In reality, I'm a white male American citizen of Polish, Lithuanian, and Czech ancestry. In NS, I'm a female Japanese Jew. No, I don't know how we arrived here. I really don't. To be perfectly honest I'm actually a bit disturbed at how easily some people buy that I'm a Japanese woman. However, since most people do know that I'm not really a Japanese woman and are just screwing around (As I often do with others) I play along and likewise joke about both my gender, nationality, and race.

Anyway, I have new info: Everything I've said up till now about the relativistic effects of gravity on Hyperspace is absolute bunk! Completely and totally! I have screwed up! It's not that Gravity effects Hyperspace differently than Real Space, it's that it doesn't effect any space at all. Well, at least not relativistically. It still pulls things in and crushes stuff if it's strong enough.

In the Jedi Academy Trilogy, the series of books which deals heavily with the Maw and even dips a bit into theories about its creation, relativity is left out. Completely. Even in Real Space. There is no mention of any time or spatial distortions coming from the many black holes that compose the Maw Cluster, not even when they're actually inside the Cluster (Safe paths are possible through the Cluster, though they are hard to find. It requires you to travel between the many black holes and keep equally distant from all of them, so that their various gravities pulling you in many different directions at once cancel each other out and you can travel safely through). Since the relativstic effects of extreme gravity on Real Space are completely absent in the Star Wars Universe (At least with regards to the Maw, other books detailing different events in different places have included time and spatial distortions) then....well....okay, I guess my answer doesn't change at all, gravity still doesn't distort Hyperspace beyond making it unpassable and yanking ships within Hyperspace back into Real Space, but now at least I have an explanation for it. The explanation might defy pretty much all existing theories on such situations, but this is fiction so modern day theories aren't that important.