NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd like to read y'all a scripture, 2nd Tim, chapter 3.

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works


I think he did pretty a good prediction, considering he wrote this 2,000 years ago...

It doesn't say anything that really - conclusively makes it out as a 'prediction' - this could describe most any place or time. What is it about this that jumps out at you?

good, how about the real version?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P118.HTM

1

1 But understand this: there will be terrifying times in the last days.

2

People will be self-centered and lovers of money, proud, haughty, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, irreligious,

3

callous, implacable, slanderous, licentious, brutal, hating what is good,

4

traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

5

as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. Reject them.

6

For some of these slip into homes and make captives of women weighed down by sins, led by various desires,

7

always trying to learn but never able to reach a knowledge of the truth.

8

Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so they also oppose the truth - people of depraved mind, unqualified in the faith.

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But they will not make further progress, for their foolishness will be plain to all, as it was with those two.

10

2 You have followed my teaching, way of life, purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance,

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persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra, persecutions that I endured. Yet from all these things the Lord delivered me.

12

In fact, all who want to live religiously in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

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But wicked people and charlatans will go from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived.

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But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it,

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and that from infancy you have known (the) sacred scriptures, which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

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3 4 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

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so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.


NOW, how about you explain also to us this lecture. who wrote it, why, to who and when? It was Jesus who wrote it?

always trying to learn but never able to reach a knowledge of the truth.

I would say that this particular passage distinguishes our times from the past very nicely.

Firstly, isn't listing yourself as Saviour and Lord either heretical or blasphemous or both?

Secondly, the passage can (and does) describe any and all times that I can think of.

I must admit that you nearly had me convinced - when I got to the "incontinent" part I nearly shit meself.

Can only suggest that you carefully watch "The Life of Brian", paying particular note to the prophesies you will hear there.

good, how about the real version?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P118.HTM
What makes yours any more real than the one that started the thread?

Here are the problems I find with 2 Tim, Ch. 3:

If God likes you, will everyone else like you too?

If God likes you, so will your enemies.
Pr.16:7 "When a man's ways please the Lord, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him."

If you are faithful to God, you will be persecuted.
2 Tim.3:12
"All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

AND

Is all Scripture inspired by God?

Yes.
2 Tim.3:16
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God...."

No.
1 Cor.7:12.:
"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord."

1 Cor.7:25
"Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment...."

I would say that this particular passage distinguishes our times from the past very nicely.

In what way? Man has sought after knowledge for his entire existance. Even within your own mythology, do not Adam and Eve seek the Fruit of Tree Of Knowledge of Good and Evil?

In what way? Man has sought after knowledge for his entire existance. Even within your own mythology, do not Adam and Eve seek the Fruit of Tree Of Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Within my own mythology? What makes you assume that I am Christian, or Jewish?

I think he did pretty a good prediction, considering he wrote this 2,000 years ago...

I agree, that pretty much sums up modern Christians. How could they have wandered so far from the true path?

I'd like to read y'all a scripture, 2nd Tim, chapter 3.

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works


I think he did pretty a good prediction, considering he wrote this 2,000 years ago...

Yep - good passage. One of the ones they trotted out a thousand years ago to support the 'end of the world' which was coming at the end of the first Millenium.

Oh, and they trotted it out again, in 1666, because that was going to be the end of the world, also.

I seem to recall talk that this passage was ALSO used to justify how both the World War AND World War 2 were markers of the end-times.

What do you think it predicts, exactly? Why now, rather than any of the other times?

since early christians almost universally thought they were living in the last days, one must assume all their texts of this nature were meant to either refer to their present situation or the very near future(next few years, maybe a decade or so).

Within my own mythology? What makes you assume that I am Christian, or Jewish?

Fair enough. My mistake.

Hehe lol if you list 20+ characteristics then surely you can recognise some of them in our present world.

Here's another prophesy: "In the future there will be a time of war and hunger, when humanity gives in to greed and hate. Manmade devices will burn the fields and fill the sky with smoke." Are you gonna believe that too? Sweet then I'm a prophet :D

If God likes you, so will your enemies.
Pr.16:7 "When a man's ways please the Lord, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.

Well its rather hypocritical to be expecting of forgiveness for every single sin you have done against God your entire life, and be unable to forgive those who sin against you.


If you are faithful to God, you will be persecuted.
2 Tim.3:12
"All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."


Simple logic, if you are a Christian then you are a threat to evil and so evil will persecute you.

Hehe lol if you list 20+ characteristics then surely you can recognise some of them in our present world.

Here's another prophesy: "In the future there will be a time of war and hunger, when humanity gives in to greed and hate. Manmade devices will burn the fields and fill the sky with smoke." Are you gonna believe that too? Sweet then I'm a prophet :D
You have to make the prediction before it happens not after...geez, get a clue :P

You have to make the prediction before it happens not after...geez, get a clue :P
Now, if only someone had mentioned that to almost ALL of the biblical prophets....

Now, if only someone had mentioned that to almost ALL of the biblical prophets....
The bible was written before we lived thus any prediction of now would count...
Explain what you meant.

The bible was written before we lived thus any prediction of now would count...
Explain what you meant.

I'm not sure what you mean - I have yet to see a bible prophecy that i feel adresses 21st century civilisation any better than it does any other time period, or, in fact, a loose reading of the historical events of the time.

What I mean is: it isn't that much of a psychic talent, to be able to predict the fall of Rome, while Rome is falling around your ears.

Well its rather hypocritical to be expecting of forgiveness for every single sin you have done against God your entire life, and be unable to forgive those who sin against you.



Simple logic, if you are a Christian then you are a threat to evil and so evil will persecute you.

So, the good Christian is going to make peace with his/her enemies, and still be persecuted by them? Doesn't sound like peace, to me.