NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering what the good people and entities of NS think of such religious sects such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons.

The question presented is:
Do you feel that the following groups should be considered a Christian denomination or an independent religious sect?-

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Jehovah's Witnesses
Christian Scientist
Unity School of Christianity
These are the ones usually considered questionable by "mainstream" Christians, but you can respond for any Christian/Pseudochristian religious movement that you have a valid argument for.

It's late in my time zone, so I don't have time to really create a full response, though I will later.

Easiest way to go about this is by defining Christianity. Christianity is the belief that there is a God, this God created everything in existance, God sent his son down to the earth to die for the sins of humanity and this son was Jesus. That is a basic framework of Christianity. So which of those groups fit the basic framework? If they fit they are a christian sect if they don't fit then they aren't.

I really don't see any objective difference between a cult and a religion.

7 ELEMENTS OF A CULTIC GROUP

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth"

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives

Hmmm. But Christians might. After all, the Catholics spent centuries hunting down anyone who wasn't orthodox Catholic. The Protestants finally got out from under their thumb, but most Catholics and Protestants are still sticklers when it comes to what Christianity really is. When you start adding extra religious books and prophets not mentioned in the Bible, most of them balk at recognizing the new organizations as Christian.

7 ELEMENTS OF A CULTIC GROUP

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority1) I don't believe that this is requisite of a cult, but I believe there is a trend for it. *cough* Pope *cough*
2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth"Again, sounds much like Christianity, and pretty much all religions.
3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challengingSounds fair enough.
4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the groupAgain, I don't beleive this is required, but I think that is a popular tactic.
5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate membersI don't think that cults necessarily control and manipulate members, and ethics certainly cannot define a cult, since everyone has different views on that.
6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tacticsThat is certainly not a requirement.
7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy livesThis is least viable of all the arguments. There can be cults without mass suicides and all that. Those are just the ones you hear about.

7 ELEMENTS OF A CULTIC GROUP

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth"

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives

1) Most religions have that
2) Every religion has that
3) Every religion has that
4) If your religion has people going to meeting where there is more then just you there, they qualify under this one
5) Most religions fall unto this catigory, and i'd argue all if you remove the "unethical" so it reads "a definable process of group dynamics used to control and manipulate members"
6) One could argue that any religion is deceptive. Plus most religions have fear tactics that, while going under different names (hell, or what not) call for a place of spiritual suffering unless you follow what they tell you.
and finally
7) out of all of them, i really fail to see how this is a requirement, but ok: under this clause, i'd have to, at the very least - probably more, place Christianity, and Islam.

Which once again raises the question, what's the difference? Since under these, questionable to begin with, qualifications you have most of the worlds religions.

Mormons are evil. They convert dead people, and at one point Jews. Jehovah's Witnesses, as far as I know, are very good Christians. It's really just Catholicism and Mormonism(LDS) that annoy me.

It's really just Catholicism and Mormonism(LDS) that annoy me.
First of all, I want to establish that I really don't care whether some forms of Christianity are cultic or not. All religions are similar, and I think cults are jsut unpopular religions. Second, what's so bad about Catholicism and Mormonism? You just gave examples that Mormons convert dead people, but I really don't get your point. And you just completely skipped what's wrong with Catholics. What I get pissed off at are pretty much all religious extremeists. Though I could probably tolerate a Buddhist extremist. Probably.

Of those, the only ones I can objectively call a cult would be Christian Scientists. Because they have truly bizarre beliefs. I don't know what half of those others you listed were, but I must refer to other posters and say: how do you define a cult? Many cults are simply religions without a large following. Many religions (I would argue all of them) are simply very large cults. What's the objective difference?