NationStates Jolt Archive

Two faced Tony the democracy destroyer (can you see where I'm going with this?) is looking at stopping civil servants from being members of the BNP.
Now as much as I disagree with the BNP they are a legal political party and members should not be discriminated against.
So is it then ok to ban civil servants from being members of the SNP?
People in a democracy should be allowed what ever beliefs and opinions they want, those that are employed either by the Gov or a private company should when performing thier duties use the values of the organisation they represent. If they fail to do this then sack them, fine, but don't start telling people what they should believe if they want to be employed.
So anyone else think it a scary thought that we as a country are even considering following the tashy tutonic dictator down this path?

What's so wrong with the BNP, anyway?

What's so wrong with the BNP, anyway?
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with them, I disagree with thier stated policies, but think it is good for democracy that they exist and make others think about thier own beliefs and justify them.
They have made the gov sit up and start thinking, but rather than addressing the issues raised two faced Tony would prefer to silence those that bring it to the fore.

What's so wrong with the BNP, anyway?

They're quite an extreme nationalist party. Last I heard, one of their major policies was to deport all immigrants.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with them, I disagree with thier stated policies, but think it is good for democracy that they exist and make others think about thier own beliefs and justify them.
They have made the gov sit up and start thinking, but rather than addressing the issues raised two faced Tony would prefer to silence those that bring it to the fore.
Well, I was hoping for a more empassioned response from my inane question, to be quite frank.

For those of you who don't know, the BNP (British National Party) is the "respectable" face of racist politics in Britain. Unfortunately for them, their recent political gains were set back somewhat earlier this year in an undercover BBC documentary, which revealed undercurrents of opinion similar to those still expressed by the dwindling National Front.

I'm not surprised civil servants are being banned from joining them.

They're quite an extreme nationalist party. Last I heard, one of their major policies was to deport all immigrants.
No, I think that's the National Front, who have gone rather loopy over recent years. The BNP are much more "acceptable" and, with their stated policies, are careful to pander to the fears of the British Daily Mail-reading public. But I'm sure that deporting all immigrants is an ultimate aim.

Well, I was hoping for a more empassioned response from my inane question, to be quite frank.

For those of you who don't know, the BNP (British National Party) is the "respectable" face of racist politics in Britain. Unfortunately for them, their recent political gains were set back somewhat earlier this year in an undercover BBC documentary, which revealed undercurrents of opinion similar to those still expressed by the dwindling National Front.

I'm not surprised civil servants are being banned from joining them.
Not suprised, but is it right?
If the party were made illegal then yes, but it is a legitimate party and if they won a few more votes would (scary I know) get a seat in the commons.
If I object strongly to Labours policies do we ban civil servants from joining that party?

The BNP are much more "acceptable" and, with their stated policies, are careful to pander to the fears of the British Daily Mail-reading public. But I'm sure that deporting all immigrants is an ultimate aim.

I thought UKIP was the "acceptable one".

Not suprised, but is it right?
If the party were made illegal then yes, but it is a legitimate party and if they won a few more votes would (scary I know) get a seat in the commons.
If I object strongly to Labours policies do we ban civil servants from joining that party?
Well, it should be an illegal party. They make outrageous claims, like, we will take back all the council homes that have been sold through the Right To Buy scheme, and make them available as council houses again. Then they get elected to council seats in deprived areas and never go to a single council meeting.

They're a bunch of racist layabouts. I know they're not an illegal party, but yes, I still believe it's right.

Having been a civil servant for 18 months, I left before I turned grey, loads have been there for 20 + years and excell in mediocrity as a tax payer and worker in the real world people such as civil servants should not be employed until they have worked in a commercial role, that way tax payers may get value for money! oh and you are meant to disclose any political associations whenever you join or however tenuous it may be as yes they can dictate being in a political party if it may have some impact on your job. descriminatory parties such as the bnp dont exactly sit withing government guidelines on diversity. as an aside however the civil service (the pension service) has been the most descriminatory place I have worked on grounds of race and sex, it has a good chunk of nepotism as well.

want to change the CS then kiss ass until you get into a high position and go from there.

Well, it should be an illegal party. They make outrageous claims, like, we will take back all the council homes that have been sold through the Right To Buy scheme, and make them available as council houses again. Then they get elected to council seats in deprived areas and never go to a single council meeting.

They're a bunch of racist layabouts. I know they're not an illegal party, but yes, I still believe it's right.
As I say a slippery slope to dictatorship and ignoring the rules when it suits.
We will be burning books that Tony doesn't like soon.

Having been a civil servant for 18 months, I left before I turned grey, loads have been there for 20 + years and excell in mediocrity as a tax payer and worker in the real world people such as civil servants should not be employed until they have worked in a commercial role, that way tax payers may get value for money! oh and you are meant to disclose any political associations whenever you join or however tenuous it may be as yes they can dictate being in a political party if it may have some impact on your job. descriminatory parties such as the bnp dont exactly sit withing government guidelines on diversity. as an aside however the civil service (the pension service) has been the most descriminatory place I have worked on grounds of race and sex, it has a good chunk of nepotism as well.

want to change the CS then kiss ass until you get into a high position and go from there.
Now if you ban any political association then that is ok, you can't pick and choose.

I thought UKIP was the "acceptable one".
Well, it's turning that way - the BNP took over from the National Front, and I think UKIP might well take over from the BNP. The BNP might turn out to already be dead and buried (in the wake of the BBC documentary), but maybe not. Have you seen Nick Griffin's daughter? Man, she's scary, and potentially could make serious inroads into British politics.

The BNP are often claiming an alliance with UKIP, but UKIP deny it. I think UKIP is less of a racist party, though, than a xenophobic party with a lot of racists within.

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_nation/nation=kilroy-silk

Heh, did you see the speech that Kilroy made a while ago? Man, he looked sinister. He was like "We must KILL the Conservative party".

Well, it's turning that way - the BNP took over from the National Front, and I think UKIP might well take over from the BNP. The BNP might turn out to already be dead and buried (in the wake of the BBC documentary), but maybe not. Have you seen Nick Griffin's daughter? Man, she's scary, and potentially could make serious inroads into British politics.

The BNP are often claiming an alliance with UKIP, but UKIP deny it. I think UKIP is less of a racist party, though, than a xenophobic party with a lot of racists within.

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_nation/nation=kilroy-silk


What's the deal with Griffins daughter. Is she hot or something?

What's the deal with Griffins daughter. Is she hot or something?

Enquiring minds want to know.

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_nation/nation=kilroy-silk
Nice.

"and its currency is the pound of course."

:D

But anyway, I thought Civil Servants were meant to be politically neutral and therefore not allowed to be members of any party. This was was just an assumption on my part though (albeit put two and two together and getting three),

Enquiring minds want to know.


Just google it, man.

Just google it, man.

It was a comment on the relevance of whether Jennifer Griffin was hot or not, rather than an actual request for pictures.

It was a comment on the relevance of whether Jennifer Griffin was hot or not, rather than an actual request for pictures.

Well how else could she be a force in politics? Her father's stellar record?

Is she or not.

It was a comment on the relevance of whether Jennifer Griffin was hot or not, rather than an actual request for pictures.
She's quite attractive, yes. Not stunningly so. It's just scary to see so much hatred spewing out of a young person's mouth. And she comes across as very media-savvy, so I think she'll be able to make their "policies" a bit more acceptable-looking.

Is she or not.
Yes-ish.
Actually, I can't quite remember, I don't actually go out of my way to find pictures of her.

Well how else could she be a force in politics? Her father's stellar record?

Is she or not.

cf Alessandra Mussolini.

That's all I wanted to know.

She's quite attractive, yes. Not stunningly so. It's just scary to see so much hatred spewing out of a young person's mouth. And she comes across as very media-savvy, so I think she'll be able to make their "policies" a bit more acceptable-looking.

The interview she did with the Grauniad in May certainly didn't present her in a media-savvy light (or in deed savvy about anything very much).

It was a comment on the relevance of whether Jennifer Griffin was hot or not, rather than an actual request for pictures.

Sorry, we seem to have had a bit of a misunderstanding. I meant that it would be a good idea to use google to check whether or not she is hot.

No, I think that's the National Front, who have gone rather loopy over recent years. The BNP are much more "acceptable" and, with their stated policies, are careful to pander to the fears of the British Daily Mail-reading public. But I'm sure that deporting all immigrants is an ultimate aim.

On the BNP website it says something like 'All immigrants will be given 'incentives' to return to their home countries' or some crap like that. Yeah, the incentive is you can either go of your own accord or be sent to concentration camps. :rolleyes:

And as for banning civil servants from being in the BNP, I think it's a good idea. I don't think the people running our country should be allowed to subscribe to racist doctrines and be members of parties decended from Hitler's Nazis.

On the BNP website it says something like 'All immigrants will be given 'incentives' to return to their home countries' or some crap like that. Yeah, the incentive is you can either go of your own accord or be sent to concentration camps. :rolleyes:

And as for banning civil servants from being in the BNP, I think it's a good idea. I don't think the people running our country should be allowed to subscribe to racist doctrines and be members of parties decended from Hitler's Nazis.
Oh, I knew they wanted to do that, but I didn't realise it was openly stated policy.

Two faced Tony the democracy destroyer (can you see where I'm going with this?) is looking at stopping civil servants from being members of the BNP.
Now as much as I disagree with the BNP they are a legal political party and members should not be discriminated against.
So is it then ok to ban civil servants from being members of the SNP?
People in a democracy should be allowed what ever beliefs and opinions they want, those that are employed either by the Gov or a private company should when performing thier duties use the values of the organisation they represent. If they fail to do this then sack them, fine, but don't start telling people what they should believe if they want to be employed.
So anyone else think it a scary thought that we as a country are even considering following the tashy tutonic dictator down this path?
Civil servants are not allowed to be part of any extreme right or left wing political parties-though they can be members of mainstream parties. This rule has been around for many years, Blair just isn't changing the law, whoopidy doo!

Plotical parties? What are they plotting about? :p ;)

Civil servants are not allowed to be part of any extreme right or left wing political parties-though they can be members of mainstream parties. This rule has been around for many years, Blair just isn't changing the law, whoopidy doo!

So he's just enforcing an existing law?

So he's just enforcing an existing law?
Yup

Jennifer Griffin:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/images/rwb03/image015_tn.jpg

I think that this is basically political rights vs. civil rights.

Restricting extreme political parties is quite an obvious violation of political rights. However, I don't want them to get into power, because I would rather hang on to my civil rights.

God, she looks like a prostitute in that one. I think one person too many told her she was quite pretty and should use that to her advantage.

Jennifer Griffin:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/images/rwb03/image015_tn.jpg

She has an evil glint in her eye.
[/sarcasm]

I think that this is basically political rights vs. civil rights.

Restricting extreme political parties is quite an obvious violation of political rights. However, I don't want them to get into power, because I would rather hang on to my civil rights.
Thr law doesn't so much restrict the parties per se, it just stops those people who carry out public policy being to extreme in their political views (or at least to admit them). The parties themselves are allowed to do whatever they want, within the confines of the law.

The BNP are also quite homophobic if I remember correctly.

Thr law doesn't so much restrict the parties per se, it just stops those people who carry out public policy being to extreme in their political views (or at least to admit them). The parties themselves are allowed to do whatever they want, within the confines of the law.

Hmmmm, I need to think that one out a bit more...

The BNP are also quite homophobic if I remember correctly.
So are the Republicans.

So are the Republicans.
I think comparing the BNP and Republican Party is pushing the envelope a bit, even for the most avid Republican-hater. That would be like trying to link, ooh I don't know, Saddam Hussein with Al Qaeda or something (KIDDING!!).

It is against the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/default_en.htm) to discriminate someone because of their opinions, beliefs, or association.

(See Chapter II: 'Freedom': Articles 11 'Freedom of expression and information' (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/art11/default_en.htm), 12 'Freedom of assembly and of association' (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/art12/default_en.htm) and also possibly 15 'Freedom to choose an occupation and right to engage in work (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/art15/default_en.htm); Chapter III: 'Equality': Article 21 'Non-Discrimination' (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/art21/default_en.htm))

Edit: I can't see how there can be a law preventing Civil Servants from belonging to 'extreme' parties. How do you define 'extreme'? Wouldn't they have had to specifically state certain parties? How can they prevent Civ. servants from belonging to the BNP when the BNP actively try not to be extreme?

So are the Republicans.

Really?

"Everyone living in Ireland is equal before the law and has the right to the protection and benefit of the law without discrimination on the grounds of race, ethnic origin, nationality, colour, gender, sexual orientation, disability, age, social or economic status, marital or family status, residence, language, religion or belief, political or other opinion, trade union membership, or status as a victim."

" Every person has the right to be protected from all forms of physical, emotional or mental abuse, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, injury or abuse. This includes sectarian, homophobic and racial abuse, neglect, bullying, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual exploitation or abuse. The state will protect against sectarian, racist or homophobic abuse and harassment, as well as sexual and domestic violence."

http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/6321

Really?

"Everyone living in Ireland is equal before the law and has the right to the protection and benefit of the law without discrimination on the grounds of race, ethnic origin, nationality, colour, gender, sexual orientation, disability, age, social or economic status, marital or family status, residence, language, religion or belief, political or other opinion, trade union membership, or status as a victim."

" Every person has the right to be protected from all forms of physical, emotional or mental abuse, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, injury or abuse. This includes sectarian, homophobic and racial abuse, neglect, bullying, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual exploitation or abuse. The state will protect against sectarian, racist or homophobic abuse and harassment, as well as sexual and domestic violence."

http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/6321I don't think he meant those Republicans.

The answer to the original question of Jennifer Griffin's "hotness" or "notness", if you will, I think can accurately be answered as: not "hot", but not bad. The only problem I've found with her pictures is the disparity between one picture from the next; they are usually quite different. Of course the "I am not a racist" racist beliefs ultimately make much less attractive than she may or may not be anyway.

I don't think he meant those Republicans.

Yeah, after I posted I decided that his post was probably refering to the US party: however, are civil servants allowed to be members of SF or the DUP or the UUP?

It is against the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/default_en.htm) to discriminate someone because of their opinions, beliefs, or association.

(See Chapter II: 'Freedom': Articles 11 'Freedom of expression and information' (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/art11/default_en.htm), 12 'Freedom of assembly and of association' (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/art12/default_en.htm) and also possibly 15 'Freedom to choose an occupation and right to engage in work (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/art15/default_en.htm); Chapter III: 'Equality': Article 21 'Non-Discrimination' (http://www.europarl.eu.int/comparl/libe/elsj/charter/art21/default_en.htm))

Edit: I can't see how there can be a law preventing Civil Servants from belonging to 'extreme' parties. How do you define 'extreme'? Wouldn't they have had to specifically state certain parties? How can they prevent Civ. servants from belonging to the BNP when the BNP actively try not to be extreme?
Which sort of supports the point, that distastful as it may be, we cannot ban people from belonging to a legal political party.

As a British Civil Servant of four and a half years standing i can categorically tell you that Tony Blair is not trying to ban civil servants from being members of the BNP. what actually happened way back in september was that a couple of newspapers published an article suggesting that David Blunket (the home secretary) was considering stopping members of the BNP becoming civil servants.

as far as political affiliation goes, the majority of civil servants can belong to a political party if they want to. As long as their political views and allegiances do not impact on their work, or bring the civil service or the crown into disrepute, or cost the civil service time or money. it is only extremely top level civil servants (minister's advisors etc) that are restricted in their political activities. the civil service is an impartial organisation with it's alliegance to the queen and country, as the administrative arm of the government.

the Civil Service is at the leading edge in implementing Anti Discrimination law. The government wants to stamp out racism, homophobia, violence in the work place etc. if a potential employee was likely to cause problems in any of these areas then they would not be employed. if an employee behaved that way they would be disciplined and ultimately fired. in civil service or in the business world. But you don't have to be a member of the BNP to act that way.

Two faced Tony the democracy destroyer (can you see where I'm going with this?) is looking at stopping civil servants from being members of the BNP.
Now as much as I disagree with the BNP they are a legal political party and members should not be discriminated against.
So is it then ok to ban civil servants from being members of the SNP?
People in a democracy should be allowed what ever beliefs and opinions they want, those that are employed either by the Gov or a private company should when performing thier duties use the values of the organisation they represent. If they fail to do this then sack them, fine, but don't start telling people what they should believe if they want to be employed.
So anyone else think it a scary thought that we as a country are even considering following the tashy tutonic dictator down this path?

It's wrong to stop people belonging to political parties, however distasteful they might be. As you said, if they're doing their job and not breaking any laws then what's the problem?

As far as I know the only party banned in the UK is the nazi party. As for the BNP the last time I looked at them (a few years ago) they seemed to have one or two goo policies, but unfortunately they have alot of far right policies as well.
I voted UKIP in the european elections this year. It had to be done, I don't trust the main stream parties to do whats in my interest.

To the point, I doubt that Blair is trying to stop them I believe that New Kats Land has a acceptable explination. I would be very angry if Blair was stopping people supporting their political beliefs, even if they were extreme, in the democratic nation that is Britain