NationStates Jolt Archive

Im always hearing about how conservatives have more morals. I'm always hearing about how conservative states should show the rest of the nation how to be moral.

I used to live in Louisiana(southern conservative state) and now live in California(liberal democratic state). The only thing I have to say is, conservative states have no morals. I knew this for awhile, but never had any evidence for it, except for now.

http://www.andrewsullivan.com/main_article.php?artnum=20041128

Full text article:
"When America sat down last week for its annual rite of national Thanksgiving, some would argue that two different nations actually celebrated: upright, moral, traditional red America and the dissolute, liberal blue states clustered on the periphery of the heartland. The truth, however, is much more complicated and interesting than that.

Take two iconic states: Texas and Massachusetts. In some ways, they were the two states competing in the last election. In the world's imagination, you couldn't have two starker opposites. One is the homeplace of Harvard, gay marriage, high taxes, and social permissiveness. The other is Bush country, solidly Republican, traditional, and gun-toting. Massachusetts voted for Kerry over Bush 62 to 37 percent; Texas voted for Bush over Kerry 61 to 38 percent.

So ask yourself a simple question: which state has the highest divorce rate? Marriage was a key issue in the last election, with Massachusetts' gay marriages becoming a symbol of alleged blue state decadence and moral decay. But in actual fact, Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the country at 2.4 divorces per 1,000 inhabitants. Texas - which until recently made private gay sex a criminal offence - has a divorce rate of 4.1. A fluke? Not at all. The states with the highest divorce rates in the U.S. are Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas. And the states with the lowest divorce rates are: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont. Every single one of the high divorce rate states went for Bush. Every single one of the low divorce rate states went for Kerry. The Bible Belt divorce rate, in fact, is roughly 50 percent higher than the national average.

Some of this discrepancy can be accounted for by the fact that couples tend to marry younger in the Bible Belt - and many clearly don't have the maturity to know what they're getting into. There's some correlation too between rates of college education and stable marriages, with the Bible Belt lagging a highly educated state like Massachusetts. But the irony still holds. Those parts of America that most fiercely uphold what they believe are traditional values are not those parts where traditional values are healthiest. Hypocrisy? Perhaps. A more insightful explanation is that these socially troubled communities cling onto absolutes in the abstract because they cannot live up to them in practice.

But doesn't being born again help bring down divorce rates? Jesus, after all, was mum on the subject of homosexuality, but was very clear about divorce, declaring it a sin unless adultery was involved. A recent study, however, found no measurable difference in divorce rates between those who are "born again" and those who are not. 29 percent of Baptists have been divorced, compared to 21 percent of Catholics. Moreover, a staggering 23 percent of married born-agains have been divorced twice or more. Teen births? Again, the contrast is striking. In a state like Texas, where the religious right is extremely strong and the rhetoric against teenage sex is gale-force strong, the teen births as a percentage of all births is 16.1 percent. In liberal, secular, gay-friendly Massachusetts, it's 7.4, almost half. Marriage itself is less popular in Texas than in Massachusetts. In Texas, the percent of people unmarried is 32.4 percent; in Massachusetts, it's 26.8 percent. So even with a higher marriage rate, Massachusetts manages a divorce rate almost half of its "conservative" rival.

Or take abortion. America is one of the few Western countries where the legality of abortion is still ferociously disputed. It's a country where the religious right is arguably the strongest single voting bloc, and in which abortion is a constant feature of cultural politics. Compare it to a country like Holland, perhaps the epitome of socially liberal, relativist liberalism. So which country has the highest rate of abortion? It's not even close. America has an abortion rate of 21 abortions per 1,000 women aged between 15 and 44. Holland has a rate of 6.8. Americans, in other words, have three times as many abortions as the Dutch. Remind me again: which country is the most socially conservative?

Even a cursory look at the leading members of the forces of social conservatism in America reveals the same pattern. The top conservative talk-radio host, Rush Limbaugh, has had three divorces and an addiction to pain-killers. The most popular conservative television personality, Bill O'Reilly, just settled a sex harassment suit that indicated a highly active adulterous sex life. Bill Bennett, the guru of the social right, was for many years a gambling addict. Karl Rove's chief outreach manager to conservative Catholics for the last four years, Deal Hudson, also turned out to be a man with a history of sexual harassment. Bob Barr, the conservative Georgian congressman who wrote the "Defense of Marriage Act," has had three wives so far. The states which register the highest ratings for the hot new television show, "Desperate Housewives," are all Bush-states.

The complicated truth is that America truly is a divided and conflicted country. But it's a grotesque exaggeration to say that the split is geographical, or correlated with blue and red states. Many of America's biggest "sinners" are those most intent on upholding virtue. In fact, it may be partly because they know sin so close-up that they want to prevent its occurrence among others. And some of those states which have the most liberal legal climate - the Northeast and parts of the upper MidWest - are also, in practice, among the most socially conservative. To ascribe all this to "hypocrisy" seems to me too crude an explanation. America is simply a far more complicated and diverse place than crude red and blue divisions can explain.

The spasms of moralism that have punctuated American history from the first Puritans all the way through Prohibition and now the backlash against gay marriage are not therefore a war of one part of the country against another. They're really a war within the souls of all Americans. Within many a red state voter, there's a blue state lifestyle. And within many a blue state liberal, there's a surprisingly resilient streak of moralism. And it is this internal conflict that makes America still such a vibrant and compelling place. The conflict exists perhaps most powerfully within the red states themselves - as they grapple with the "sin" of their own practices and the high standards of their own aspirations. It's worth remembering that Bill Clinton was a product of a red state. And that for more than half his life, George W. Bush was a dissolute wastrel from a blue state family. These contradictions are not the exceptions. They are the American rule. And if you love this tortured and fascinating country, one more reason to be thankful it still exists."



And finally, a chart showing teen pregnancy rates. This is pregnancy rate per 1,000

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/teenpreg.png

And finally finally, yesterday, president Bush introduced a fellow conservative "moral" churchgoer, Mike Hintz, who benefitted from Bush's tax plan.
http://www.grassleyworks.com/grassley/wrapper.jsp?PID=4090-69&CID=4090-100604A

And today, that same fellow was caught having an affair with a 17 year old.
http://www.theiowachannel.com/news/3976822/detail.html

Conservatives have no morals, don't believe them when they say they do.

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UPDATE: since Los Banditos kept pestering for data about crime/murder, I went and looked it up too. Big surprise, it looks like red states have the highest in that too. Here are some other facts.

Gotten from http://www.peskyfacts.com/Values/Values.htm
More info at http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2002/antle/qtr2/0610.htm
and
http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2002/antle/qtr2/0610.htm
and
go to google and look for it, there are tons of sites with similar studies

Public Education Expenditures -- All 10 of the 10 states spending the least per capita on public elementary and secondary education are Red States. 7 of the 10 states spending the most per capita on public elementary and secondary education are Blue States.

Toxic Chemicals -- All 10 of the 10 states releasing the most pounds of toxic chemicals into the environment per capita are Red States. 7 of the 10 states releasing the fewest pounds of toxic chemicals into the environment per capita are Blue States.

Red States and Blue States - There were 31 Red States in the 2004 election, and 19 Blue States.

Births to Single Moms -- 9 of the 10 states with the highest rates of birth to single mothers are Red States. 4 of the 10 states with the lowest rates of birth to single mothers are Blue States.

Births to Teen Moms -- All 10 of the 10 states with the highest rates of teen pregnancy are Red States. 9 of the 10 states with the lowest rates of teen pregnancy are Blue States.

Child Abuse. 8 of the 10 states with the highest reported incidence of child abuse are Red States. 4 of the 10 states with the lowest reported incidence of child abuse are Blue States.

College and Advanced Education -- All 10 of the 10 states with the lowest percentages of citizens with college and/or advanced degrees are Red States. 8 of the 10 states with the highest percentages of citizens with college and/or advanced degrees are Blue States.

Divorce -- All 10 of the 10 states with the highest rates of divorce are Red States. 7 of the 11 states with the lowest rates of divorce are Blue States (there is a statistical tie in the 7th spot among 5 states).

Execution of Minor Offenders -- Only 6 states, all Red States, have executed a person for an offense committed while a minor since 1990. The only other countries where such executions have occurred since 1990 are China, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Federal Money Consumed -- 8 of the 10 states consuming the highest per capita amounts of federal funds are Red States. 6 of the 10 states consuming the lowest per capita amounts of federal funds are Blue States.

Federal Taxes Paid -- 9 of the 10 states paying the lowest per capita amounts of federal income taxes are Red States. 7 of the 10 states paying the highest per capita amounts of federal income taxes are Blue States.

Infant Mortality 2001 -- 9 of the 10 states with the highest rates of infant mortality are Red States. 8 of the 12 states with the lowest infant mortality rates are Blue States (there is a statistical tie in the 10th spot among 3 states).

Suicide -- 8 of the 10 states with the highest rates of suicide are Red States. 9 of the 10 states with the lowest rates of suicide are Blue States.

Uninsured Children -- 9 of the 10 states with the largest proportion of children without health insurance coverage are Red States. 7 of the 10 states with the smallest proportion of uninsured children are Blue States.

Uninsured Population -- 10 of the 11 states with the largest proportion of citizens without health insurance coverage are Red States (there is a statistical tie in the 10th spot between 2 states). 7 of the 10 states with the smallest proportion of uninsured citizens are Blue States.

Violent Crime -- 7 of the 10 states with the highest rates of violent crime are Red States. 4 of the 10 states with the lowest rates of violent crime are Blue States.

Thanks for that. Like I've been trying to say to moralizing right-wingers--get the rafter out of your own eye before trying to get the straw out of mine. Oh wait--it was Jesus who said that.

Meh, I used to think that liberals wanted to help the poor. Then I saw two of my liberal friends walk right past a couple of bums with disgusted looks on their faces. And then pretned to ignore the Salvation Army guy.

Point being, not everyone in a political party follows its values.

Meh, I used to think that liberals wanted to help the poor. Then I saw two of my liberal friends walk right past a couple of bums with disgusted looks on their faces. And then pretned to ignore the Salvation Army guy.

Point being, not everyone in a political aprty follows its values.

Yes, one or two people cannot represent a party. BUT, we are talking about STATES here, not one or two people.

Yes, one or two people cannot represent a party. BUT, we are talking about STATES here, not one or two people.
And just to add, it certainly is fair to criticize individuals when those people are leaders of the party/church/movement and when they fall short of their own rhetoric. So when Henry Hyde claims that getting a blowjob is an impeachable offense, it's certainly fair to ask him about his fathering of a child out of wedlock.

I still don't think this is enough to say that the conservatives have no morals. This is just two examples of where the liberals have a higher ground. However, one might argue that the divorce rates and teenage pregancies tend to fall in an age group that mostly votes Democratic.

My question is, who is more likely to steal or murder. Present that data and the candidate they voted for and I will believe you.

I still don't think this is enough to say that the conservatives have no morals. This is just two examples of where the liberals have a higher ground. However, one might argue that the divorce rates and teenage pregancies tend to fall in an age group that mostly votes Democratic.

My question is, who is more likely to steal or murder. Present that data and the candidate they voted for and I will believe you.

No, that's not the correct reasoning. If I were to think like you, I would be comparing today's teenage pregnancy to the older generation's teenage pregnancy(who usually voted for Bush). Seeing as how today's teen pregnancy are at an all time low, it seems that the older generation that voted for Bush are "stupid and have no morals".

No, that's not the correct reasoning. If I were to think like you, I would be comparing today's teenage pregnancy to the older generation's teenage pregnancy(who were likely voted for Bush). Seeing as how today's teen pregnancy are at an all time low, it seems that the older generation that voted for Bush are "stupid and have no morals".
Not saying that I would say that, just that it might be inferred. The question still stands whether divorce is the least ethical thing in the world.

Not saying that I would say that, just that it might be inferred. The question still stands whether divorce is the least ethical thing in the world.

WTF, did you even read the article, or did you just look at the pretty little chart. Article:
Red states: highest divorce rate, highest teen pregnancy
Blue states: lowest divorce rate, lowest teen pregnancy

The bible belt south: on average, 50% higher than national average on divorce rates.

WTF, did you even read the article, or did you just look at the pretty little chart. Article:
Red states: highest divorce rate, highest teen pregnancy
Blue states: lowest divorce rate, lowest teen pregnancy

The bible belt south: on average, 50% higher than national average on divorce rates.
I read the article. You did not read what I said. Why does high divorce rates and high teen pregnancy mean that the states are immoral? What states have higher crime rates? What states have more murders and drug use?

I read the article. You did not read what I said. Why does high divorce rates and high teen pregnancy mean that the states are immoral? What states have higher crime rates? What states have more murders and drug use?
apparently they are very relevant to morals as marraige is apparently some important bullshit with the gay marriage whinery and all

apparently they are very relevant to morals as marraige is apparently some important bullshit with the gay marriage whinery and all
True, but is it the most important thing in morality? I like to think that killing someone is a lot worse than having a child out of wed-lock.

I read the article. You did not read what I said. Why does high divorce rates and high teen pregnancy mean that the states are immoral? What states have higher crime rates? What states have more murders and drug use?

I'm not sure about murder and drug use. I'm not really too concerned about that since it wasn't a major topic during the last election. All I kept hearing about was how gay marriages were destroying the sanctity of marriage, and that the South should be a moral guide to the rest of the nation.

But in all honesty, if we are thinking about crime and murder, the blue states may have a higher number since in urban areas, when you stick more people closer together, you have a greater chance of someone committing a crime. Think of it like this, it's hard to commit crimes when your nearest neighbor is a mile away.

BUT, since you wanted it, I research it and hear it is.

Murder rate: Red states have highest
Crime rate: Red states have highest
Suicide rate: Red states have highest

Other facts: (gotten from http://www.kgb.com/2004_11_21_kgbreparchive.shtml
and
http://www.peskyfacts.com/Values/Values.htm )
Births to Single Moms- 9 of the 10 states with the highest rates of birth to single mothers are Red States. 4 of the 10 states with the lowest rates of birth to single mothers are Blue States.

Births to Teen Moms- All 10 of the 10 states with the highest rates of teen pregnancy are Red States. 9 of the 10 states with the lowest rates of teen pregnancy are Blue States.

Child Abuse. 8 of the 10 states with the highest reported incidence of child abuse are Red States. 4 of the 10 states with the lowest reported incidence of child abuse are Blue States.

College and Advanced Education- All 10 of the 10 states with the lowest percentages of citizens with college and/or advanced degrees are Red States. 8 of the 10 states with the highest percentages of citizens with college and/or advanced degrees are Blue States.

Divorce- All 10 of the 10 states with the highest rates of divorce are Red States. 7 of the 11 states with the lowest rates of divorce are Blue States (there is a statistical tie in the 7th spot among 5 states).

Execution of Minor Offenders- Only 6 states, all Red States, have executed a person for an offense committed while a minor since 1990. The only other countries where such executions have occurred since 1990 are China, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Federal Money Consumed- 8 of the 10 states consuming the highest per capita amounts of federal funds are Red States. 6 of the 10 states consuming the lowest per capita amounts of federal funds are Blue States.

Federal Taxes Paid- 9 of the 10 states paying the lowest per capita amounts of federal income taxes are Red States. 7 of the 10 states paying the highest per capita amounts of federal income taxes are Blue States.

Infant Mortality 2001- 9 of the 10 states with the highest rates of infant mortality are Red States. 8 of the 12 states with the lowest infant mortality rates are Blue States (there is a statistical tie in the 10th spot among 3 states).

Suicide- 8 of the 10 states with the highest rates of suicide are Red States. 9 of the 10 states with the lowest rates of suicide are Blue States.

Uninsured Children- 9 of the 10 states with the largest proportion of children without health insurance coverage are Red States. 7 of the 10 states with the smallest proportion of uninsured children are Blue States.

Uninsured Population- 10 of the 11 states with the largest proportion of citizens without health insurance coverage are Red States (there is a statistical tie in the 10th spot between 2 states). 7 of the 10 states with the smallest proportion of uninsured citizens are Blue States.

Violent Crime- 7 of the 10 states with the highest rates of violent crime are Red States. 4 of the 10 states with the lowest rates of violent crime are Blue States.

And because you wanted more:
http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2002/antle/qtr2/0610.htm

I might make a new post about this.

Conservatives have no morals, don't believe them when they say they do.
It's amazing how someone can read an article yet ignore, almost completely, its conclusion. It is NOT as simple as "Conservatives are scum." At least they (and this author) acknowledge the difference between moral ideals and flawed reality. You get a big red...

F--

What's more moral?
-Preventing the death's of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and troops

or

-Preventing homosexuals from marrying

How does some statistics from these states show that conservative's must be hypocrites?

You cannot imply that conservatives as a whole are hypocrites because of some statistics from these states, those people that account for these statistics showing immoral behavior among those in the so called "bible belt" states will not find any true conservative that will support what they did. Rather than looking at these statistics, which could be very misleading (not suggesting this is true, but just pointing it as an example of why said statistics could be misleading, but lets take your statistics, 4.1 divorce rate in Texas, and 38% voted for Kerry. Show me that 4.1 divorce rate is evenly divided (or moreso) due to the Bush supporters, then your statistics will have much more credibility.

Otherwise, they are a bunch of statistics that appear to hint at a conclusion, but do not in all actuality.

Even assuming the conclusion you appear to be trying to hint at from your statistics were correct, and conservatives DO have higher divorce rates, abortions, etc. etc., still how does that make me a hypocrite for supporting conservative values?

I'm not supporting those people who say they are conservative but behave unaccordingly, I don't partake in that behavior myself, so how would it make me a hypocrite?

If it doesn't, then what relevance does this article have to do with any conservatives on this board you may be trying to insult? Or to any liberals who may want to try and use this article against the conservatives here?

Further proof that Massachusetts and everyone in it is better than the rest of the country.:D

Snip

Thank you. Now I believe your opinion has merit though I do not completely agree with it.

Oh, by the way, the red states do have urban areas. It is not all farm land.:)

How does some statistics from these states show that conservative's must be hypocrites?

You cannot imply that conservatives as a whole are hypocrites because of some statistics from these states, those people that account for these statistics showing immoral behavior among those in the so called "bible belt" states will not find any true conservative that will support what they did. Rather than looking at these statistics, which could be very misleading (not suggesting this is true, but just pointing it as an example of why said statistics could be misleading, but lets take your statistics, 4.1 divorce rate in Texas, and 38% voted for Kerry. Show me that 4.1 divorce rate is evenly divided (or moreso) due to the Bush supporters, then your statistics will have much more credibility.

Otherwise, they are a bunch of statistics that appear to hint at a conclusion, but do not in all actuality.

Even assuming the conclusion you appear to be trying to hint at from your statistics were correct, and conservatives DO have higher divorce rates, abortions, etc. etc., still how does that make me a hypocrite for supporting conservative values?

I'm not supporting those people who say they are conservative but behave unaccordingly, I don't partake in that behavior myself, so how would it make me a hypocrite?

If it doesn't, then what relevance does this article have to do with any conservatives on this board you may be trying to insult? Or to any liberals who may want to try and use this article against the conservatives here?


I'm saying those conservatives in red states have to stop saying how morally superior they are. It's all I heard during the election. The bible conservative Southern area are the moral homes of America. What a bunch of bull.

I'm a petty man, so I'm going to go with "they(conservatives) started it" and liberals are here to find out whether it's true or not. During the campagne, liberals were constantly being bashed by conservatives. Being "Liberal" is now bad because of them. And that's what pisses me off.

Liberals were labeled as bad; labeled as immoral; labeled as scum. After the election, several red states wanted the blue states to withdraw from the nation because we were too immoral for it. Well, I just want to say to them to shove it.

The conservatives don't know the first thing about morality. They think morality means staying off pot because the government tells you not to use it.

Tell ya what, blue states can go join Canada and leave us poor dumb immoral legalist divorcing sexually promiscuous citizens of red states as our own nation and then watch and laugh as we become the most screwed-up nation on earth. I have morals. That's why I don't have sex, drink, do drugs, and I try to avoid other behaviors that are wrong or harmful. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It doesn't matter where you live. If you can make society better, do it. I believe it was your good friend Michael Moore who termed it "Jesusland". Not us.

The conservatives don't know the first thing about morality. They think morality means staying off pot because the government tells you not to use it.
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
You don't know the first thing about conservatives.

I'm saying those conservatives in red states have to stop saying how morally superior they are. It's all I heard during the election. The bible conservative Southern area are the moral homes of America. What a bunch of bull.

I'm a petty man, so I'm going to go with "they(conservatives) started it" and liberals are here to find out whether it's true or not. During the campagne, liberals were constantly being bashed by conservatives. Being "Liberal" is now bad because of them. And that's what pisses me off.

Liberals were labeled as bad; labeled as immoral; labeled as scum. After the election, several red states wanted the blue states to withdraw from the nation because we were too immoral for it. Well, I just want to say to them to shove it.
What about the Midwest? Still part of the Bible Belt and did not do as bad as the southern states.

Liberals made the word "conservative" just as bad as conservatives made the word "liberal". Look in this forum. See how people throw out "neocon" as an insult? Neither party has the higher ground on this issue.

Great post and great research, Actual Thinkers. Remember, the `Moral Majority` are neither.

How does some statistics from these states show that conservative's must be hypocrites?


Well umm.. statistics are what we base our society on. Well we did before the Bush administration's faith based crap. There are an awful lot of coincidences if you want to blow off the statistics. (Almost as convincing as Cheyney's non conflict of intrest with Haliburton's no-bid contracts) Also in terms of morals here's a fact for you. The Republicans started a rule that says you can't head a comitee if you are under an indictement. (The Dems later followed suit) The Republicans started this to prove they had higher morals than the Dems. They have now stopped this practice to protecct House Majority Leader Tom DeLay who will soon be under an indictment. (For illegally messing with Texas counties to insure Republican victories) Huzahh for the Conservatives non-exsistent moral values and hypocricy!

Those Arrogent Conservitives they suck, liberals rule, im glad I'm not arrogent...

Tell ya what, blue states can go join Canada and leave us poor dumb immoral legalist divorcing sexually promiscuous citizens of red states as our own nation and then watch and laugh as we become the most screwed-up nation on earth. I have morals. That's why I don't have sex, drink, do drugs, and I try to avoid other behaviors that are wrong or harmful. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It doesn't matter where you live. If you can make society better, do it. I believe it was your good friend Michael Moore who termed it "Jesusland". Not us.

Can't, I love our nation. I just hate many of the people in it. ;)

Those Arrogent Conservitives they suck, liberals rule, im glad I'm not arrogent...
Wow. That's the most hypocritical thing I've read in a while.

unrelated thought---(so I don't get called an asshole again)
It's so nice to know that everyone here is so respectful and understanding.

What about the Midwest? Still part of the Bible Belt and did not do as bad as the southern states.

Liberals made the word "conservative" just as bad as conservatives made the word "liberal". Look in this forum. See how people throw out "neocon" as an insult? Neither party has the higher ground on this issue.

Actually neocons are diffrent from conservatives. Conservatives also use it. Neocons are imperialists who want an American Empire. I read some of there stuff it is signed by Rumsfeld by the way. It is VERY scary. As you can tell by my name, I'm a liberal and very partisan. Liberal is used as a slur Only by Republicans and mainly conservative ones at that. I have yet to hear anyone else use it (as a slur).

I think this artical says a great deal, and people call liberals "Immoral"

Those Arrogent Conservitives they suck, liberals rule, im glad I'm not arrogent...
Well said. I really hate both parties but stuff like this pisses me off more. Long live the party of Jefferson!

Wow. That's the most hypocritical thing I've read in a while. It's so nice to know that everyone here is so respectful and understanding.

It's prbably at least partly a joke. Defensive because the shoe is a little too tight huh?

Wow. That's the most hypocritical thing I've read in a while. It's so nice to know that everyone here is so respectful and understanding.

I'm fairly sure that was sarcasm.

'Wow. That's the most hypocritical thing I've read in a while. It's so nice to know that everyone here is so respectful and understanding."

it was a joke asshole

They have now stopped this practice to protecct House Majority Leader Tom DeLay who will soon be under an indictment. (For illegally messing with Texas counties to insure Republican victories) Huzahh for the Conservatives non-exsistent moral values and hypocricy!
Tom DeLay was trying to get dems who were breaking the law after they knew they would lose. Huzzah for sore losers in Texas.

Actually neocons are diffrent from conservatives. Conservatives also use it. Neocons are imperialists who want an American Empire. I read some of there stuff it is signed by Rumsfeld by the way. It is VERY scary. As you can tell by my name, I'm a liberal and very partisan. Liberal is used as a slur Only by Republicans and mainly conservative ones at that. I have yet to hear anyone else use it (as a slur).
You just did. You even call yourself liberal in your name. How can you have never heard a Democrat call themselves a liberal?

Tom DeLay was trying to get dems who were breaking the law after they knew they would lose. Huzzah for sore losers in Texas.

Then why is he about to be under indictment buddy?

I just want to dislike Conservitive Uber-Christians in a comical way

'Wow. That's the most hypocritical thing I've read in a while. It's so nice to know that everyone here is so respectful and understanding."

it was a joke asshole
To clarify:
My second comment was unrelated to the first. I realize now I should have spaced it differently to make that clear, asshole.

Wow almost all this data points to even more reasons to live in blue states..

You just did. You even call yourself liberal in your name. How can you have never heard a Democrat call themselves a liberal?

Did you read the whole thing? In parenthesis, I clearly stated "as a slur" Also known as an insult. Please do read the whole thing.

Wow almost all this data points to even more reasons to live in blue states..

I like to believe there was enough as it was! (yes I'm a cheeky bastard) ;)

Then why is he about to be under indictment buddy?
I believe I already told you my understanding of the situation. He had to break the law in order to bring democrats back to Texas so they could vote on legislation they knew they would lose on.

"I like to believe there was enough as it was! (yes I'm a cheeky bastard)"

Hurray for Liberal Assholes Such as Ourselves (I'm self not loathing, I'm an asshole and a Liberal)

You want to know why we call you liberals liberals so much? Two reasons.

That is what you are.
It gets your little panties in such a bunch.

It doesn't piss me off when people call me a liberal, It's like the same thing as a democrat

Tell ya what, blue states can go join Canada and leave us poor dumb immoral legalist divorcing sexually promiscuous citizens of red states as our own nation and then watch and laugh as we become the most screwed-up nation on earth. I have morals. That's why I don't have sex, drink, do drugs, and I try to avoid other behaviors that are wrong or harmful. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It doesn't matter where you live. If you can make society better, do it. I believe it was your good friend Michael Moore who termed it "Jesusland". Not us.
Actually, it wasn't Michael Moore--it was a blogger who came up with a cute little graphic that I along with many others, linked to. And by the way, if you actually want the blue states to leave, then fine--you can watch the economy that we drive go even farther into hell than it already is. Without us in the blue states, you folks in the red states would be in the throes of an extreme depression right now. So go ahead--kick us out. Canada would love to add us to their economy, I'm pretty sure of that.

You want to know why we call you liberals liberals so much? Two reasons.

That is what you are.
It gets your little panties in such a bunch.


The thing is that we like being called liberal. It's just that when other people think liberals are bad, we have to go out and prove them wrong.

I believe I already told you my understanding of the situation. He had to break the law in order to bring democrats back to Texas so they could vote on legislation they knew they would lose on.

Why did it matter if the Dems would have lost anyway? why didn't he report it? Also if he broke the law, he broke the law. He should lose his posisition as Majority Leader.

Actually, it wasn't Michael Moore--it was a blogger who came up with a cute little graphic that I along with many others, linked to. And by the way, if you actually want the blue states to leave, then fine--you can watch the economy that we drive go even farther into hell than it already is. Without us in the blue states, you folks in the red states would be in the throes of an extreme depression right now. So go ahead--kick us out. Canada would love to add us to their economy, I'm pretty sure of that.
I think you might be surprised at how much of the economy is based out of the red states. And a lot of the food you eat. And I bet a lot of the companies in blue states would relocate. Not that I agree with people wanting a succesion.

Why did it matter if the Dems would have lost anyway? why didn't he report it? Also if he broke the law, he broke the law. He should lose his posisition as Majority Leader.
Reminds me of an event a few years ago...

Well it was pretty easy to figure out who was who on the political spectrum just by looking at that joke and who knew it was sarcasm and could laugh at it and who got all offended and took it seriously.

You guys need to lighten up a bit. We don't want to kill you.

Reminds me of an event a few years ago...

which is? Clinton I suppose. If so I don't believe that adultery is a crime. Certainly not "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" as is required by the Constitution. Also Tom DeLay:

1. illegally financed republican candidates to help them to victory. (that's what he's indicted for)

2. Giving cash to Republicans to re-redistrict (it had just been redistricted) Where they lumped Small Democratic areas with Large Republican ones, effectively keeping epublican control of the House.

Thank God for America.

Well it was pretty easy to figure out who was who on the political spectrum just by looking at that joke and who knew it was sarcasm and could laugh at it and who got all offended and took it seriously.

You guys need to lighten up a bit. We don't want to kill you.

Speak for yourself. *Laughs evily*

which is? Clinton I suppose. If so I don't believe that adultery is a crime. Certainly not "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" as is required by the Constitution. Also Tom DeLay:

1. illegally financed republican candidates to help them to victory. (that's what he's indicted for)

2. Giving cash to Republicans to re-redistrict (it had just been redistricted) Where they lumped Small Democratic areas with Large Republican ones, effectively keeping epublican control of the House.

Thank God for America.
Perjury is a crime.

Perjury is a crime.

Agreed. While I think it was ridiculous that a simple blowjob got blown that far out of proportion, the fact is that it did, and when it came down to it, he lied while under oath, which is a crime.

Maybe so, but come on.

Would you like to stand up and admit:

"YES dammit, I'm the President of the frickin' US and I had a chick give me a blow job!"

I'd find it better to nail him for policy decisions than his hormone levels.

Perjury is a crime.

Yes it is. However he was not indicted for that. Hell, Bush wouldn't even SPEAK under oath to the 9/11 comitee, now what does that imply? All I'm saying is, someone with nothing to hide has nothing to fear from questioning.

Okay, wow. So a rather insightful article by Andrew Sullivan has been abused to create yet another partisan flamewar. I'm... appalled. I mean, someone has the gall to suggest that morality is not as simple as "GOP = good, Dems = evil" or vice versa, and you all ignore him. In closing:

F--

Worst prize! Ding!

Agreed. While I think it was ridiculous that a simple blowjob got blown that far out of proportion, the fact is that it did, and when it came down to it, he lied while under oath, which is a crime.
No doubt it got blown out of proportion. In both ways.

He he he.

Okay, wow. So a rather insightful article by Andrew Sullivan has been abused to create yet another partisan flamewar. I'm... appalled. I mean, someone has the gall to suggest that morality is not as simple as "GOP = good, Dems = evil" or vice versa, and you all ignore him. In closing:

F--

Worst prize! Ding!

Hooray for recreating an old General gimmick.

I believe anyone with absolute, unquestioning faith in any political party is just as deplorable as the "bad people" whom they declare to be their enemies.

Okay, wow. So a rather insightful article by Andrew Sullivan has been abused to create yet another partisan flamewar. I'm... appalled. I mean, someone has the gall to suggest that morality is not as simple as "GOP = good, Dems = evil" or vice versa, and you all ignore him. In closing:

F--

Worst prize! Ding!

1. Shouldn't you use three spaces?

2. I resent that, that isn't what I'm trying to say at all. I'm saying GOP=bad, Democrats=lousy but better get it right

1. Shouldn't you use three spaces?

2. I resent that, that isn't what I'm trying to say at all. I'm saying GOP=bad, Democrats=lousy but better get it right
I think that was a grade. You know "F minus minus."

Banditos: Correct!
PO'ed Libs: Yeah, I read your posts. You're not part of the problem. You seem pretty open-minded, despite your alleged rabid partisanship.
Keljam: Agreed.
Squidjie: Hey, it's from H*R.com. Don't mock the Homestar.

(It's amazing. Even with big fonts and colors, I still had to repeat myself to be heard. xD)

Tell ya what, blue states can go join Canada and leave us poor dumb immoral legalist divorcing sexually promiscuous citizens of red states as our own nation and then watch and laugh as we become the most screwed-up nation on earth. I have morals. That's why I don't have sex, drink, do drugs, and I try to avoid other behaviors that are wrong or harmful. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It doesn't matter where you live. If you can make society better, do it. I believe it was your good friend Michael Moore who termed it "Jesusland". Not us.

I don't suppose conservatives would label themselves with something so self-mocking as 'Jesusland.' Besides, the morals you cited yourself as possessing are typical conservative Christian morals. Morals don't have to be explicitly religious, and mine aren't. They're loosely based in Christianity, though they're mirrored in most cultures. The problem I encounter with conservative or Republican morals is that they tend to exclude other modes of thought, and the people who supposedly abide by these morals frequently 'relieve' themselves of their limitations while continuing to condemn others, and they establish a sort of ignorant and impenetrable superiority for themselves.

I live in the Deep South and I grew up in a Republican household, though I myself converted to the dreaded liberalism. I'm in college right now, surrounded by moralistic, rich-bitch Republicans. Their 'morality' consists of harassing the gay/bi students and sneering at anyone not clad in Abercrombie. It's rather unpleasant. And a majority of them are hypocrites, trotting off to Baptist Student Union one night, then drinking themselves into a drunken one-night stand the next. My experience with conservatives hasn't been that fantastic... most won't listen to reason that lies outside of the strict context of the Bible, they get witheringly vicious on politics, and they're stubborn bigots. Not to mention the fact that down here they're more or less all white and either rich prep kids or repulsive rednecks.

I can attribute some of their lack of appeal to the fact they're college students right now, either rich airheads or polished and manipulative honors students. But if they don't evolve as they become adults... God. My father is what I would consider an educated and moderate conservative. He has religious principles and democratic principles, and he can sort through them. He deals with his biases and makes use of all available information. He doesn't just slouch on the porch and mutter, 'Them damn fags,' and he doesn't try to make excuses for George W. Bush's mistakes. He acknowledges the usefulness of a two-party system, and right now he's afraid extreme conservatives will swarm government until we turn into a fascist state. He appreciates balance in government and fair treatment overall rather than the dominance of his personal beliefs. Well, before this entirely turns into an essay on my definition of a 'good Republican,' I'll stop. But having morals and acting moral are often two different things, especially if you subscribe to highly restrictive ones.

I don't suppose conservatives would label themselves with something so self-mocking as 'Jesusland.' Besides, the morals you cited yourself as possessing are typical conservative Christian morals. Morals don't have to be explicitly religious, and mine aren't. They're loosely based in Christianity, though they're mirrored in most cultures. The problem I encounter with conservative or Republican morals is that they tend to exclude other modes of thought, and the people who supposedly abide by these morals frequently 'relieve' themselves of their limitations while continuing to condemn others, and they establish a sort of ignorant and impenetrable superiority for themselves.

I live in the Deep South and I grew up in a Republican household, though I myself converted to the dreaded liberalism. I'm in college right now, surrounded by moralistic, rich-bitch Republicans. Their 'morality' consists of harassing the gay/bi students and sneering at anyone not clad in Abercrombie. It's rather unpleasant. And a majority of them are hypocrites, trotting off to Baptist Student Union one night, then drinking themselves into a drunken one-night stand the next. My experience with conservatives hasn't been that fantastic... most won't listen to reason that lies outside of the strict context of the Bible, they get witheringly vicious on politics, and they're stubborn bigots. Not to mention the fact that down here they're more or less all white and either rich prep kids or repulsive rednecks.

I can attribute some of their lack of appeal to the fact they're college students right now, either rich airheads or polished and manipulative honors students. But if they don't evolve as they become adults... God. My father is what I would consider an educated and moderate conservative. He has religious principles and democratic principles, and he can sort through them. He deals with his biases and makes use of all available information. He doesn't just slouch on the porch and mutter, 'Them damn fags,' and he doesn't try to make excuses for George W. Bush's mistakes. He acknowledges the usefulness of a two-party system, and right now he's afraid extreme conservatives will swarm government until we turn into a fascist state. He appreciates balance in government and fair treatment overall rather than the dominance of his personal beliefs. Well, before this entirely turns into an essay on my definition of a 'good Republican,' I'll stop. But having morals and acting moral are often two different things, especially if you subscribe to highly restrictive ones.

You are my hero.

I find it, at the same time, very funny and very depressing that the values of Christ have been so abused by the American Christian uber-right. Or rather - the lack of them. How many Republican policies are truly based on the teachings of Christ? Very few. Let me point out three points.

Jesus was a communist.

Seriously.

Jesus was a pacifist.

Again... seriously.

Jesus didn't hate "fags".

Now then. Doesn't that just put everything into perspective? Hey, American Christians! Listen up: live up to the name. Vote Democratic.

You are my hero.
I agree. I wish more people could be like this.

At my school it is the other way around. The Republicans tend to be from poor farm families or small towns. Some of them come from rich families. The Democrats are usually rich and just want to rebel against their parents. You can tell because they protest globization while wearing their Abercrombie shirts and Nikes. The ones I have ran across are usually agressive towards the opposition. I do know that not all of the Democratic Party are not like this.

I find it, at the same time, very funny and very depressing that the values of Christ have been so abused by the American Christian uber-right. Or rather - the lack of them. How many Republican policies are truly based on the teachings of Christ? Very few. Let me point out three points.

Jesus was a communist.

Seriously.

Jesus was a pacifist.

Again... seriously.

Jesus didn't hate "fags".

Now then. Doesn't that just put everything into perspective? Hey, American Christians! Listen up: live up to the name. Vote Democratic.
Yeah, we all know that all Republicans hate homosexuals and love war. We also know that Jesus wanted the working class to rise up and overcome the oppresive government. He never said anything about following the laws made bt Caesar. Not only that, Jesus wanted the government to control all of industry. That is why he came to Earth and died.
[/sarcasm]

Yeah, we all know that all Republicans hate homosexuals and love war. We also know that Jesus wanted the\0\0
???+\0\0\0\0??P?rise up and overcome the oppresive government. He never said anything about following the laws made bt Caesar. Not only that, Jesus wanted the government to control all of industry. That is why he came to Earth and died.
[/sarcasm]

Not a Commie, but a Socialist. "Everyone is equal in the eyes of God" Also he was a huge fan of Social equality. At the least he is a Dem (probably a socialist but anyhow) For the above reasons, Republicans DON'T support social Equality. (don't say they do)

Also I am Pissed Off Liberals (they are my puppet)

Not a Commie, but a Socialist. "Everyone is equal in the eyes of God" Also he was a huge fan of Social equality. At the least he is a Dem (probably a socialist but anyhow) For the above reasons, Republicans DON'T support social Equality. (don't say they do)

Also I am Pissed Off Liberals (they are my puppet)
Not claiming he was a Republican. Just that he was not a communist. He does have some qualities similar to socialism but it may be going too far to call him a socialist.

Not claiming he was a Republican. Just that he was not a communist. He does have some qualities similar to socialism but it may be going too far to call him a socialist.

What would you call him then? Just a liberal Democrat? (pacifist, moral ;), pro-Social Justice)

I don't suppose conservatives would label themselves with something so self-mocking as 'Jesusland.' Besides, the morals you cited yourself as possessing are typical conservative Christian morals. Morals don't have to be explicitly religious, and mine aren't. They're loosely based in Christianity, though they're mirrored in most cultures. The problem I encounter with conservative or Republican morals is that they tend to exclude other modes of thought, and the people who supposedly abide by these morals frequently 'relieve' themselves of their limitations while continuing to condemn others, and they establish a sort of ignorant and impenetrable superiority for themselves.

I live in the Deep South and I grew up in a Republican household, though I myself converted to the dreaded liberalism. I'm in college right now, surrounded by moralistic, rich-bitch Republicans. Their 'morality' consists of harassing the gay/bi students and sneering at anyone not clad in Abercrombie. It's rather unpleasant. And a majority of them are hypocrites, trotting off to Baptist Student Union one night, then drinking themselves into a drunken one-night stand the next. My experience with conservatives hasn't been that fantastic... most won't listen to reason that lies outside of the strict context of the Bible, they get witheringly vicious on politics, and they're stubborn bigots. Not to mention the fact that down here they're more or less all white and either rich prep kids or repulsive rednecks.

I can attribute some of their lack of appeal to the fact they're college students right now, either rich airheads or polished and manipulative honors students. But if they don't evolve as they become adults... God. My father is what I would consider an educated and moderate conservative. He has religious principles and democratic principles, and he can sort through them. He deals with his biases and makes use of all available information. He doesn't just slouch on the porch and mutter, 'Them damn fags,' and he doesn't try to make excuses for George W. Bush's mistakes. He acknowledges the usefulness of a two-party system, and right now he's afraid extreme conservatives will swarm government until we turn into a fascist state. He appreciates balance in government and fair treatment overall rather than the dominance of his personal beliefs. Well, before this entirely turns into an essay on my definition of a 'good Republican,' I'll stop. But having morals and acting moral are often two different things, especially if you subscribe to highly restrictive ones.

What you are basing your arguments off of and your "Christian Morals" off are the protestants (ie Baptists, Epicopal's Methodist etc, etc) not all of us here are into the bash the gays/bi's. When you can start to substantiate (probably spelled wrong) your OPINIONS AND OBSERVATIONS (because that is what they are) then maybe you can be take seriously. Because i too live in the deep south and where i am, gay bashing is only done by the fucking red neck with a gun who has only a few teeth and wants to secede from the Union. I am not a bible thumping christian, baptist church going person (Catholic and moderate). This has become a rant and i can hardly remember what i have written before to actually make sure my post is coherent. But remember, what you are doing now is generalizing. Not all Democrats are bad, most are more middle leaning people, and not all Republicans are right-wing nut jobs, most lean towards the middle. It just happens that the things that we disagree on are very large. Most people in the US are moderates who can look at both sides and find good things from both parties, it's just the way left of the way right who get the air time. I think we need a one party system, or a damn king...but that is my opinion an i will one day be king!!!!

What would you call him then? Just a liberal Democrat? (pacifist, moral ;), pro-Social Justice)
i would not affiliate the Son of Man with any political party. Why? Because politics was not the message he was making. He should not be used as a political tool.

Wow, that has to be the stupidest load of bullshit i have ever seen. You do realize that not everyone here in the south trots off to Baptist Student Union and then goes and gets drunk. WHat you are basing your arguments off of and your "Christian Morals" off are the protestants (ie Baptists, Epicopal's Methodist etc, etc) not al lof us here are into the bash the gays/bi's. When you can start to substantiate (probably spelled wrong) your OPINIONS AND OBSERVATIONS (because that is what they are) then maybe you can be take seriously. Because i too live in the deep south and where i am, gay bashing is only done by the fucking red neck with a gun who has only a few teeth and wants to secede from the Union. I am not a bible thumping christian, baptist church going person (Catholic and moderate). This has become a rant and i can hardly remember what i have written before to actually make sure my post is coherent. But remember, what you are doing now is generalizing. Not all Democrats are bad, most are more middle leaning people, and not all Republicans are right-wing nut jobs, most lean towards the middle. It just happens that the things that we disagree on are very large. Most people in the US are moderates who can look at both sides and find good things from both parties, it's just the way left of the way right who get the air time.
You did not read all of his post, did you? He shows that he learned that not all Republicans in the South were the same. Read the last paragraph.

i would not affiliate the Son of Man with any political party. Why? Because politics was not the message he was making. He should not be used as a political tool.

You mean like his birthday shouldn't be used as a commercial holiday? Ahhh... yes, the deep religiousness of buying overpriced gifts for others. Merry Christmans to all.

You mean like his birthday shouldn't be used as a commercial holiday? Ahhh... yes, the deep religiousness of buying overpriced gifts for others. Merry Christmans to all.
Now, now. I never said he could not be used to sell merchandise. :)
Also, this is discussed in another thread.

Anyway, one last post before I try to sleep.

You people have become corrupted by the modern, 20th century view of communism. Here: this is the less common view of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Other_forms_of_communism

Anyone who says "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" definitely has some communist aspects. Notice how I didn't use the capital-C Communist. There's a massive difference, and maybe you people should realise that difference before flaming, hmm?

As for a pacifist, yes, He was. Some of His disciples, most notably Judas, advocated a violent overthrow of the Romans in order to built Jesus's kingdom on Earth, which is a complete misunderstanding.

I never said anything about Jesus being an anarchist, however. I tend to use the purely social use of "communism", unlike most, who immediately associate it with Marx and the Soviet Union. If you see a capital-C Communist reference, that's what its referring to. "Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar, and give unto God the things that are God's."

And look at Republican policies: starting wars (that isn't exactly "turning the other cheek", now is it?), preventing gay marrige legislation from going through at all costs ("Love thy neighbour?"), and continually concentrating the wealth in ever-fewer hands ("Easier for a camel..."). Would Jesus approve? I think not.

Would Jesus approve of the Democrats? I'm inclined to doubt that very much. Let's put it this way: if He lived in the United States, Jesus would probably be apolitical, as nothing really fits.

So guess what, Los Banditos? You're wrong.

Yea, not all republicans are the same. Moderate republicans are often very intelligent. That's why I spent my post criticizing conservatives and their stance on morality.

EDIT: did you know that conservative republicans are trying to kick out moderate republicans? Because, according to the conservatives, anyone that isn't conservative is just as bad as a "liberal". I can't wait for the republican ranks to break down due to those conservatives.

What you are basing your arguments off of and your "Christian Morals" off are the protestants (ie Baptists, Epicopal's Methodist etc, etc) not all of us here are into the bash the gays/bi's. When you can start to substantiate (probably spelled wrong) your OPINIONS AND OBSERVATIONS (because that is what they are) then maybe you can be take seriously. Because i too live in the deep south and where i am, gay bashing is only done by the fucking red neck with a gun who has only a few teeth and wants to secede from the Union. I am not a bible thumping christian, baptist church going person (Catholic and moderate). This has become a rant and i can hardly remember what i have written before to actually make sure my post is coherent. But remember, what you are doing now is generalizing. Not all Democrats are bad, most are more middle leaning people, and not all Republicans are right-wing nut jobs, most lean towards the middle. It just happens that the things that we disagree on are very large. Most people in the US are moderates who can look at both sides and find good things from both parties, it's just the way left of the way right who get the air time. I think we need a one party system, or a damn king...but that is my opinion an i will one day be king!!!!

I wasn't making, say, a national generalization, but I was describing the situation I'm in. That, too, is still a generalization, but it's my experience. It's true I was only offering my opinions and observations. That's what I've got to go on, and I didn't think I was disguising them as facts or irrefutable truths. My focus wasn't on the ideal Republican, or the 'typical' Republican, but the Republican I have encountered at college, and my community in general. My post initially addresses what I define to be 'morals,' and I was describing my local 'Christian morals' as the product of being of Protestant--specifically Southern Baptist--denomination, though I didn't clarify that, and I'm sorry. The Republicans where I live are almost exclusively Southern Baptist, or Primitive Baptist, or Progressive Baptist-- or Baptist at any rate. I have encountered only a handful of Catholics in my lifetime, and only two of them were Republican. And truly, these two were moderate conservatives, and one had gay friends. All the Methodists and Episcopalians and Presbyterians I have encountered were also liberal, and moderately so. But the power in both towns I've lived in has belonged to ultra-conservative Baptists, and that's what I was thinking of when I said 'Christian morals.' I really am sorry if I offended you with that generalization and that I didn't make myself clear. It wasn't my intent to label all Christians or Republicans 'right-wing nut jobs.' I'm sure even all Baptists are not die-hard right-wingers... just most of the ones I've met.

And by the way, you did spell 'substantiate' correctly. I'm not sure how you meant me to do that. My post was supposed to relate my experiences, grievances, local observations, and attempt to define what I considered to be a 'moderate' conservative. And I tried to explain my interpretation of morality and how it related to Republicans I've had experience with. I can give you an example, though. Our college's Campus Republicans comprise a very strong, very active, very organized component of the student body. They host an impressive website, through which they appear to communicate very effectively to students. But they don't use it to inform students in an unbiased way (which I know is difficult anyway, but they don't even TRY); rather, they use it to propagate George W. Bush's ideals and opinions, and I consider George W. to be borderline extreme conservative. They also use their resources to bash the Young Democrats, our pitifully unorganized liberal student faction. Shortly before the presidential election each group distributed flyers about their party's candidate, and frankly I don't even remember what each one distributed... all I remember is that the Campus Republicans took the Democrats' flyer, dissected and ridiculed it, then posted it on their site and redistributed the flyer all marked up in pen to display how 'unfocused' and desperate they were. And though the Democrats' flyer wasn't crowded with overaweing statistics, the only faults I found were a few typos. Not perfectly professional, but not deserving of serial derision either. That's what I mean by 'vicious.' They only make up maybe 5% of the student population. But another 60% is titularly Republican and goes with the flow. And those Republicans are the hypocrites, the ones who go to bible study and get drunk downtown afterwards. And these people don't even think. They just vote Republican partisan, bemoan how the sad homosexuals are trying to ruin marriage, then go fuck. It's not all of them. But it's a whoooole lot-- enough to define my Republican experience. But I do appreciate that there are moderate conservatives in the world, and people who have the same sickening encounters with Democrats. I guess if we did have a one-party system, we'd be forced to label specific individuals as idiots instead of parties in general. But I know everyone would sort into opposing factions again. *sigh*

I agree. I wish more people could be like this.

At my school it is the other way around. The Republicans tend to be from poor farm families or small towns. Some of them come from rich families. The Democrats are usually rich and just want to rebel against their parents. You can tell because they protest globization while wearing their Abercrombie shirts and Nikes. The ones I have ran across are usually agressive towards the opposition. I do know that not all of the Democratic Party are not like this.

Thanks for sharing that. :) I wonder about the divisions in other schools sometimes. I think I want to take a tour of American colleges and do a survey on Which Party's the Majority Asshole & Where.

The thing is Republican supporters tend to be a mixture of redneck poor and urban elite, however a growing portion of middle America not just the church are turing republican for example security mom and nascar dad. the other interesting thing is that the republican party has gone from a party which under Lincoln freed the slaves and was granted the black vote for so long to a party that with nixons plan to win the old south in the 70s has moved the other way. but at the same time the democrats have done little to help ethnic groups that they take for granted and party lines as far as voting blocs are concerned have become blured.

Snip
*Yawn*

Yeah, I suppose I am wrong. You definitely proved that Jesus was a communist. And that if I am a Christian I should be a Democrat. You got me with your variety of definitions rheotoric. You proved me wrong with no reason to doubt.

These are the things that I know now that the Republican Party stands for: creating lots of wars, killing homosexuals, and stealing money from the poor. And now I know the following about Democrats: they never cause war, they are communists, they are the only true Christians.

Wow, I feel so much smarter.

[/mindless zombie rant]

*Yawn*

Yeah, I suppose I am wrong. You definitely proved that Jesus was a communist. And that if I am a Christian I should be a Democrat. You got me with your variety of definitions rheotoric. You proved me wrong with no reason to doubt.

These are the things that I know now that the Republican Party stands for: creating lots of wars, killing homosexuals, and stealing money from the poor. And now I know the following about Democrats: they never cause war, they are communists, they are the only true Christians.

Wow, I feel so much smarter.

[/mindless zombie rant]

wars that the democrats got the USA involved in:

mexico 1846
WWI
WWII
Korea
Vietnam

wars that the republicans ended
Korea
Vietnam

Wars that the republicans strated
cuba 1898
Iraqx2


the demorcats excluding ww1 and ww2 which are special cases the democrats have been responsible for more combat deaths in the us military

wars that the democrats got the USA involved in:

mexico 1846
WWI
WWII
Korea
Vietnam

wars that the republicans ended
Korea
Vietnam

Wars that the republicans strated
cuba 1898
Iraqx2


the demorcats excluding ww1 and ww2 which are special cases the democrats have been responsible for more combat deaths in the us military
Yes, but Jesus would support them for those wars. ;)

Yes, but Jesus would support them for those wars. ;)

thats it go sit in the corner with the duces pointy hat :confused:

thats it go sit in the corner with the duces pointy hat :confused:
Sorry, I won't be sarcastic again, Teacher. I promise. :(

I agree. I wish more people could be like this.

At my school it is the other way around. The Republicans tend to be from poor farm families or small towns. Some of them come from rich families. The Democrats are usually rich and just want to rebel against their parents. You can tell because they protest globization while wearing their Abercrombie shirts and Nikes. The ones I have ran across are usually agressive towards the opposition. I do know that not all of the Democratic Party are not like this.

Ditto that over here. I'm born and raised (mostly) in the 'redneck south' (Well, Raleigh & Charlotte, NC plus a stint in Puerto Rico - the far south :D) and all our democrats tend to fit that mold exactly. Given, around campus it's a safe bet that the Republicans will be either A) Abercrombie clad or B) NJROTC / Camo clad, but I mean...people on both sides need to grow up. Personally, I'm a republican but I have friends on just about every side of the isle. I'm hoping people in my region come around to seeing sense in the near future, because even though I'm a Christian Conservative (C.C., see?), I wish many of mine would 'practice what they preach' to use the old phrase.

Whatever, this is my first post, so if there's any n00b-bashing or religion bashing reserved for open minded Christian republicans, feel free to start the flame throwers now.

Actually, it wasn't Michael Moore--it was a blogger who came up with a cute little graphic that I along with many others, linked to. And by the way, if you actually want the blue states to leave, then fine--you can watch the economy that we drive go even farther into hell than it already is. Without us in the blue states, you folks in the red states would be in the throes of an extreme depression right now. So go ahead--kick us out. Canada would love to add us to their economy, I'm pretty sure of that.

And I would love to have free health care!

wars that the democrats got the USA involved in:

mexico 1846
WWI
WWII
Korea
Vietnam

wars that the republicans ended
Korea
Vietnam

Wars that the republicans strated
cuba 1898
Iraqx2


the demorcats excluding ww1 and ww2 which are special cases the democrats have been responsible for more combat deaths in the us military

1. WWI and WWII as you noted, are special cases, both sides dragged their heels over those two.

2. Korea and Veitnam were both to prevent the democracies of those nations, Republican were far more anti-soviet than the Democrats, and would have done the same.

3.Korea went well, and the next ermer would have won anyway. Vietnam the Republicans just backed down, how noble.

4. You forgot Afganistan in the Republican wars column.

5. Also the War on Terror (if you count that as a war) or as I prefer to call it, "the war on oil rich countries with little or no defence"

6. Howzabout the civil war? i believe more Americans died in that than in any other war.

7. Fact of the matter is, execpt for the Civil War and the war versus Afganistan (any President would have fought that) Republican war are fought for money or land, Democratic wars are fought on principle (Wanting land or oil/money for your buddies isn't a priciple).

Ditto that over here. I'm born and raised (mostly) in the 'redneck south' (Well, Raleigh & Charlotte, NC plus a stint in Puerto Rico - the far south :D) and all our democrats tend to fit that mold exactly. Given, around campus it's a safe bet that the Republicans will be either A) Abercrombie clad or B) NJROTC / Camo clad, but I mean...people on both sides need to grow up. Personally, I'm a republican but I have friends on just about every side of the isle. I'm hoping people in my region come around to seeing sense in the near future, because even though I'm a Christian Conservative (C.C., see?), I wish many of mine would 'practice what they preach' to use the old phrase.

Whatever, this is my first post, so if there's any n00b-bashing or religion bashing reserved for open minded Christian republicans, feel free to start the flame throwers now.

I despise flaming and n00b bashing, but just so you know, if you do that on here, just say you are a puppet nation. (works real well)