NationStates Jolt Archive

Great example of effective civil disobedience. Complete article at Democracy Now! :cool:

The 20th anniversary of the Bhopal gas tragedy was a day of embarrassment for Dow chemicals, the present owner of Union Carbide and the major news media around the world.

On Friday the BBC World Satellite television channel broadcast an interview with a man identified as Jude Finisterra, who claimed to represent Dow chemicals.

Dow, which bought Union Carbide three years ago, has always maintained it "has no responsibility" for the 1984 disaster when tons of lethal gases leaked from a Union Carbide pesticide factory in the city of Bhopal, India. 7,000 people lost their lives within days. 15,000 more lost died in the following years. Around 100,000 others are still suffering chronic and debilitating illnesses. It was one of the worst industrial disasters in history and for years activists have called on the firm to take full responsibility for the disaster and to clean up the contaminated site.

In the interview, Finisterra said Dow had accepted responsibility for the accident and had set-up a multibillion dollar compensation package. The hoax ran twice on BBC World and was picked up by the major news wires before the BBC determined that no man named Jude Finisterra worked at Dow and he was an imposter. The company was forced to remind the world it did not take responsibility for the disaster and said there was no compensation fund set-up for the victims.

In Frankfurt, Dow's share price fell 4.2 percent in 23 minutes, wiping $2 billion off its market value before recovering all the day"s losses three hours later. The BBC is continuing to apologize for running the interview today and says it has lunched an internal investigation. Later the man calling himself Finisterra told BBC radio he was part of the Yes Men.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/06/1453248

Technically, it's not them who lost that money, it was the shareholders.

Great example of effective civil disobedience. Complete article at Democracy Now! :cool:

The 20th anniversary of the Bhopal gas tragedy was a day of embarrassment for Dow chemicals, the present owner of Union Carbide and the major news media around the world.

On Friday the BBC World Satellite television channel broadcast an interview with a man identified as Jude Finisterra, who claimed to represent Dow chemicals.

Dow, which bought Union Carbide three years ago, has always maintained it "has no responsibility" for the 1984 disaster when tons of lethal gases leaked from a Union Carbide pesticide factory in the city of Bhopal, India. 7,000 people lost their lives within days. 15,000 more lost died in the following years. Around 100,000 others are still suffering chronic and debilitating illnesses. It was one of the worst industrial disasters in history and for years activists have called on the firm to take full responsibility for the disaster and to clean up the contaminated site.

In the interview, Finisterra said Dow had accepted responsibility for the accident and had set-up a multibillion dollar compensation package. The hoax ran twice on BBC World and was picked up by the major news wires before the BBC determined that no man named Jude Finisterra worked at Dow and he was an imposter. The company was forced to remind the world it did not take responsibility for the disaster and said there was no compensation fund set-up for the victims.

In Frankfurt, Dow's share price fell 4.2 percent in 23 minutes, wiping $2 billion off its market value before recovering all the day"s losses three hours later. The BBC is continuing to apologize for running the interview today and says it has lunched an internal investigation. Later the man calling himself Finisterra told BBC radio he was part of the Yes Men.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/06/1453248
Ouch that is a blow (generally I don’t trust things on democracy now) but wow … irresponsible reporting if true

Oh God, not more democracynow copy/pasting.

Oh God, not more democracynow copy/pasting.
I know almost thought it was MIKULTRA (sorry if spelling is off)

Edit: at least it dosent just boil down to "bush SUX0RS"

http://members.rogers.com/dariuszalina/mkultra.jpg

http://members.rogers.com/dariuszalina/mkultra.jpg
Lol I got to remember that one :)

Oh out of curiosity here is what bbc has to say about it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2004/12_december/03/world.shtml
So not COMPLEATLY fabracated

All Hail The Yes Men.

are y'all too young to remember bhopal? thousands dead on the spot, thousands more dead later, many thousands crippled for life?

shame on dupont/dow chemical for not dealing with this tragedy. 20 years of suffering ignored.

gotta love those YES-MEN

are y'all too young to remember bhopal? thousands dead on the spot, thousands more dead later, many thousands crippled for life?

shame on dupont/dow chemical for not dealing with this tragedy. 20 years of suffering ignored.

gotta love those YES-MEN
Hmmm here I thought dow had nothing to do with it

As the fact that it was owned by Union Carbides at the time?

Great example of effective civil disobedience.
Incorrect (unless you're using a definition of "civil disobedience" that I'm not aware of).

Civil disobedience is defined by Merriam-Webster OnLine (http://www.m-w.com) as:
refusal to obey governmental demands or commands especially as a nonviolent and usually collective means of forcing concessions from the government

This sounds more like a case of making false claims in someone elses name, especially without their authorization.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Incorrect (unless you're using a definition of "civil disobedience" that I'm not aware of).

Civil disobedience is defined by Merriam-Webster OnLine (http://www.m-w.com) as:


This sounds more like a case of making false claims in someone elses name, especially without their authorization.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Yup which follows with my "irresponsible reporting" comment

This sounds more like a case of making false claims in someone elses name, especially without their authorization.


Yes, that was their aim...and always is.

http://www.theyesmen.org

Hmmm here I thought dow had nothing to do with it

As the fact that it was owned by Union Carbides at the time?
*smacks self upside the head*

my bad

i of course MEANT unioncarbide/dow NOT dupont/dow

when dow chemical bought union carbide they bought liabilites as well as assests. so now DOW is responsible for the suffering caused by the union carbide plant in bhopal.

In Frankfurt, Dow's share price fell 4.2 percent in 23 minutes, wiping $2 billion off its market value before recovering all the day"s losses three hours later. The BBC is continuing to apologize for running the interview today and says it has lunched an internal investigation. Later the man calling himself Finisterra told BBC radio he was part of the Yes Men. [/I]

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/06/1453248

wow. that had a lasting impact.

The point of the action was not to impact Dow's financial bottom line, but to get Dow to remind the world in a public statement, that they do not accept responsibility for the deaths, nor will they clean up the site.

This they did accomplish.

The point of the action was not to impact Dow's financial bottom line, but to get Dow to remind the world in a public statement, that they do not accept responsibility for the deaths, nor will they clean up the site.

This they did accomplish.


I thought all legal liability was discharged before Dow bought it though.

anyne else slightly disturbed that the stock market would punish a company for admitting to responsibility for mass murder and taking steps to fixing the situation and compensating the survivors, rather than for just being responsible for those crimes in general?

"oh no, dow is admitting that one of their assests killed 20,000+ people and that they are financially responsible for clean-up and compensation. sell, sell! oh, never mind, it was just a hoax - they aren't actually going to pay restitution for their mass murder. that's ok then."

anyne else slightly disturbed that the stock market would punish a company for admitting to responsibility for mass murder and taking steps to fixing the situation and compensating the survivors, rather than for just being responsible for those crimes in general?

"oh no, dow is admitting that one of their assests killed 20,000+ people and that they are financially responsible for clean-up and compensation. sell, sell! oh, never mind, it was just a hoax - they aren't actually going to pay restitution for their mass murder. that's ok then."

Good point. I never thought of it that way. Tells you something about "corporate ethics."

Gee, I guess I am crying my little eyes out for Dow.

Actually, more like ready to wring the scrawny little necks of The Yes Men for pulling a stunt that raised the hopes of advocates and victims of Bhopal.

Dow...
Yes Men...

Both fuckers.

Gee, I guess I am crying my little eyes out for Dow.

Actually, more like ready to wring the scrawny little necks of The Yes Men for pulling a stunt that raised the hopes of advocates and victims of Bhopal.

Dow...
Yes Men...

Both fuckers.

Wrong!!!

This is not a "plague on both your houses" situation. Maybe the "Yes Men" raised hopes for the two hours that the story lasted, but they are once more reminding the world about one of the worst industrial accidents in history.

Up 41 cents today. . .


A hoax is still a hoax

Gee, I guess I am crying my little eyes out for Dow.

Actually, more like ready to wring the scrawny little necks of The Yes Men for pulling a stunt that raised the hopes of advocates and victims of Bhopal.

Dow...
Yes Men...

Both fuckers.

oh come on, like anybody has any hope whatsoever of getting compensation out of dow without taking it from them at gunpoint. when was the last time the bhopal incident was even mentioned on the news before this?

I thought all legal liability was discharged before Dow bought it though.
That might legally be the case, but many would argue that Dow should still be held liable since it bought Union Carbide. It basically the mentality that, if you cause an accident, you have to make restitution; you can't just say "We're really very, very sorry" and just walk away.

Personally, I agree with this mentality. Now, money isn't going to bring back the dead, but a point has to be made that, if a company causes an accident, especially one on such a large scale, then the company is going to suffer consequences.

That said, I'm not familiar with the legal/fiscal aftermath of the Bhopal incident (aside from the fact that Union Carbide went belly-up). So, I don't know what happened to the legal/fiscal responsibility afterwards. Additionally, this doesn't justify making false claims in the name of someone else without their authorization.

anyne else slightly disturbed that the stock market would punish a company for admitting to responsibility for mass murder and taking steps to fixing the situation and compensating the survivors, rather than for just being responsible for those crimes in general?
Let's remember that all social, economic, and political systems are made up of people, and that it's sometimes bad to think about certain entities or organizations as nebulous, faceless things. In this case, your reference to "the stock market" is really a reference to the investors, the shareholders, the people who are putting their money in all the different companies on the stock market. The questions you should then be asking are "Who's got the money?" and "What are they thinking?" If Dow Chemical really were to set up a multibillion-dollar compensation package (which, at a glance, I think they should), then that's money that's not going into expanding Dows operations or going back to shareholders in the form of dividends. It makes people with money to invest think "Hey, if I buy this companys stock, I'm going to lose money!" and they'll go invest in another company instead.

...

Now, for a slightly different perspective on this.

The Bhopal incident occured because... as I recall the story as it was told to me by a chemical engineer who was in industry for a while, it was because the chemical process involved had large holdups of hazardous intermediate chemicals* in storage tanks, waiting to be used in the next step in the manufacturing process. Water wasn't supposed to get into those tanks because it would cause a deadly reaction to occur. Water got into the tanks, a deadly reaction occured. After the Bhopal incident, word went out throughout the chemical industry: "Get rid of the holdups!"

It's now considered bad chemical engineering practice to have large quantities of hazardous chemicals sitting around in tanks without a very good reason (such as: it's a product that you're selling).

If the chemical (let's call it "Chemical X") is an intermediate in your own process, then design your process such that the equipment that makes Chemical X feeds it directly into the piece of equipment down-the-line that needs Chemical X. If there's an accident, then the only amounts of Chemical X that are spilled are the amounts in the source equipment, the destination equipment, and the piping in-between; no large intermediate storage tanks.

If you're selling Chemical X to an industrial customer that needs Chemical X for their own process, then one option is to design a small-scale manufacturing process for Chemical X and then license the plant to the customer; it would then be built to sit on-site at the customers plant exactly where Chemical X is needed; the effect is the same, you're making Chemical X where you need it (so that you're not shipping it around in trucks or pipelines) and you're only making as you need it (so that there aren't large quantitites to spill in case of an accident).

* A "holdup" in the chemical industry is any place where you have a quantity of material inside a piece of equipment. It could just be sitting still (like in a storage tank), or it could be flowing through a piece of equipment (like a plug-flow reactor, a continuous stirred tank reactor, or a distillation column). If you have water sitting in a glass, then the amount of water in that glass is "the holdup of water in the glass". If you take apart your kitchen faucet, measure the volume inside the faucet, put your faucet back together again correctly, and turn on the water flow, "the holdup of water in the faucet" is just the volume of the space inside the faucet. Water is moving through the faucet all the time, but at any given instant, there's always a certain amount of water inside the faucet; that's the holdup.

In the Bhopal incident, the "holdups" I'm referring to were storage tanks.

Chemical processes can get rather complex, so it's not just one step from raw materials to products. An intermediate chemical is any chemical that you have to make to get the process done, but is not a raw material or a product.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Let's remember that all social, economic, and political systems are made up of people, and that it's sometimes bad to think about certain entities or organizations as nebulous, faceless things. In this case, your reference to "the stock market" is really a reference to the investors, the shareholders, the people who are putting their money in all the different companies on the stock market. The questions you should then be asking are "Who's got the money?" and "What are they thinking?" If Dow Chemical really were to set up a multibillion-dollar compensation package (which, at a glance, I think they should), then that's money that's not going into expanding Dows operations or going back to shareholders in the form of dividends. It makes people with money to invest think "Hey, if I buy this companys stock, I'm going to lose money!" and they'll go invest in another company instead.

indeed. i'm not actually surprised that the investors would make the decisions they did given what they thought was true information. they made the right decision according to the rules of the game they are playing, and i would be utterly surprised if they did otherwise. the point i would rather make is that any set of rules that punishes attempts at reconciliation for past wrongs while rewarding the lack of such is a fundamentally broken system.

the point i would rather make is that any set of rules that punishes attempts at reconciliation for past wrongs while rewarding the lack of such is a fundamentally broken system.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "fundamentally broken", but I agree that something needs to change.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

snip....
The Bhopal incident occured because... as I recall the story as it was told to me by a chemical engineer who was in industry for a while, it was because the chemical process involved had large holdups of hazardous intermediate chemicals* in storage tanks, waiting to be used in the next step in the manufacturing process. Water wasn't supposed to get into those tanks because it would cause a deadly reaction to occur. Water got into the tanks, a deadly reaction occured. After the Bhopal incident, word went out throughout the chemical industry: "Get rid of the holdups!"
....snip

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Let's not forget though that a few of the holdup tanks from the factory in Bhopal are *still* there, and *still* contain (...goes to check books...) I believe it's methyl isocyanate. This MIC is also leaching out of the tanks and contaminating ground-water supplies even now. However, since it's highly reactive, and reacts to many different common elements, the ground-water is being contaminated with many different things, making health problems in the population hard to diagnose and harder to treat (not that any of them can afford treatment, mind you).

And the explosion wasn't only caused by water getting where it shouldn't... although that's a fair enough summary really... but there were other confounding variables. The pipes leading to the holdups, for example, were *meant* to be stainless steel, and cleaned and replaced regularly, because any impurities washed into the holding tanks could cause a violent reaction. Needless to say, when the company stopped turning a good enough profit, the stainless steel pipes were replaced with cheaper steel ones, and not cleaned regualarly. That's one factor that lead to the aftermath being so shocking - instead of one or two compunds formed by water mixing with the MIC, there were dozens of different gases that formed, due to the MIC mixing and reacting with impurities in the water.

Oh, and we can't forget that the factory changed it's alarm system so that, instead of sounding loud enough to warn the nearby bustees where the indian workers lived, it sounded only loud enough to be heard within the factory grounds. Brilliant move there, too.

And hmm... now I want to reread Five Past Midnight In Bhopal (by Dominique Lapierre) again. It gets all the dry details in (chemical compounds, structural details of the plant, etc), but makes it into a neat little narrative.

Let's not forget the fact that there were four safety systems in place which would have averted the disaster. None of these were working

Firstly, the tank cooling system which would have slowed the reaction and allowed more time for the alarm to be raised was not working.

The vent scrubber system wasn't operative, which would have neutralised the gas with caustic soda. Instead, the gas just escaped from a 30m high vent, allowing it to spread right across the town.

The flare tower wasn't connected up properly, so the gas couldn't be burnt off.

Then, the water curtain system which would have been a last ditch effort to neutralise as much as the gas as possible was set to 12-15m meaning it was useless.

Then we have the fact that Union Carbide didn't release any information about the chemical, or how to treat the effects. Hospitals were told it was an 'irritant' and could be treated with eyedrops and oxygen.

Let's not forget the fact that there were four safety systems in place which would have averted the disaster. None of these were working

Nor the fact that, despite the advice to keep only a minimum of MIC on site, only enough to be used almost immediately, three tanks capable of storing 120 tons of MIC were installed.

And then they installed Chakravarty as Managing Director, whose entire previous career had been spent at the head of an industry where the worst that could go wrong was a broken conveyor belt. Not such a hot choice.

I mean, honestly, once the profits from Sevin sales started falling, it seems no one gave a damn about the safety of the workers in the factory, or the people living in the surrounding area.

I guess I shouldn't be all that shocked about that, though.

Nor the fact that, despite the advice to keep only a minimum of MIC on site, only enough to be used almost immediately, three tanks capable of storing 120 tons of MIC were installed.

And then they installed Chakravarty as Managing Director, whose entire previous career had been spent at the head of an industry where the worst that could go wrong was a broken conveyor belt. Not such a hot choice.

I mean, honestly, once the profits from Sevin sales started falling, it seems no one gave a damn about the safety of the workers in the factory, or the people living in the surrounding area.

I guess I shouldn't be all that shocked about that, though.

Of course, it's only India after all. Any problems that occur can just be blamed on incompetant workers. The management is never to blame...

Of course, it's only India after all. Any problems that occur can just be blamed on incompetant workers. The management is never to blame...

Sigh...

Jeez, this is all so depressing. I don't deal well with such things. Think I'll go get some sugar.

And then I'll read Five Past Midnight and enjoy being thoroughly depressed all over again. Because I'm evidently a masochist. But at the very least I want to be a masochist with sugar.

Heh, I can rant about things like this for hours.

Sigh, I see the worst in everything.

Heh, I can rant about things like this for hours.

Sigh, I see the worst in everything.

Really? I can usually only rant about stuff that makes me angry. This sort of thing makes me more sad than angry.

Plus, it doesn't help that I've pretty much exhausted what I can remember off the top of my head. If I wanted to keep up the discussion at a level that would impress you, I'd have to start reading up on details right about now.

Oh wait, neither of us mentioned the hundreds of bodies that were cremated before being properly identified, due to the huge number of bodies that had to be processed. So I can point that out.

And I might not have done my rant about the sodium thiosulphate/hydrocyanide yet... although I think I did. Damn, I probably wasted that on earlier in the thread, when no one was paying any attention to me... *grumbles*

The first time I read the title I thought it said Dow Chem loses $2 bill (as in $2). I was confused why there would be a post. Those things are unlucky anyway.

I can get angry over just about anything. I should upload all my various rants to my webspace or something.

I can get angry over just about anything. I should upload all my various rants to my webspace or something.

Hah, but I bet you don't get accused of being 'cute' or 'amusing' when you're angry. I've learned to avoid being angry too often, because my friends are jerks and... well, call me 'cute' and 'amusing' when I'm angry, basically. And pat me in the most patronising way possible. Bastards.

I still haven't the faintest idea why they've come to the conclusion that I'm ever cute or amusing, but there you go... unless they're just being evil that is... hell, that's probably exactly what it is. Damn friends.

I can get angry over just about anything. I should upload all my various rants to my webspace or something.
Ohhh kind of like Maddox lol

Myrthox?

Hah, but I bet you don't get accused of being 'cute' or 'amusing' when you're angry. I've learned to avoid being angry too often, because my friends are jerks and... well, call me 'cute' and 'amusing' when I'm angry, basically. And pat me in the most patronising way possible. Bastards.

I still haven't the faintest idea why they've come to the conclusion that I'm ever cute or amusing, but there you go... unless they're just being evil that is... hell, that's probably exactly what it is. Damn friends.
Two possibilities:
1) You're one of those people who are cute and amusing when angry.
2) You can honestly say that you don't need enemies.


Myrthox?
Sounds like some kind of disease.

/me puts on a gas mask so that he doesn't catch myrthox.


--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

Two possibilities:
1) You're one of those people who are cute and amusing when angry.
2) You can honestly say that you don't need enemies.

Hmm... Both options seem... tricky. Either I admit being being cute and amusing when angry, or I insult all my friends... hmm. I guess I'll go for option 1, but only because I'm assuming that 'cute' = 'wearing pig-tails' and 'amusing' = 'tired'.



Sounds like some kind of disease.

/me puts on a gas mask so that he doesn't catch myrthox.


--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

Nah, it sounds more like a nerve-toxin type chemical weapon. One that causes rage-induced paralysis, or something like that, perhaps. Great fun at parties, depending on how much you dislike people.

It's one letter off being a disease (that letter being 'p', and the connection being 'pox', evidently). So, if it was 'Myrthpox', I'd agree on it sounding disease-like. 'Myrthox' sounds more like a toxic chemical gas, unless I'm being overly affected by the topic of the thread. And since I'm silly, I'll pass on the gasmasks and just have another glass of sweet caffeine-filled cola. Mmm.

Its sad...Dow has no responsibility to anyone other than its shareholders. This example showed this to be very true. The share price dropped when news of the humanitarian aid was brought to light, and news that this good deed was a hoax reassured investors that all was well at Dow.

That people will suffer and die, and Dow doesn't care, is GOOD for these investors...A clear moral hazard. The company is literally scolded by its investors for doing the right thing!

I think someone in the US government should provide strong incentives for Dow to clean up the greatest industrial disaster of all time. Sheltering such a horrific tragedy from public view does no one any good. No one! Everyone loses! I'd love the Dow shareholders to be able to sleep well at night knowing that their company makes a profit HELPING people. I'd love the people of India to be reassured of corperations good intentions, and I want the corperations to HAVE good intentions and be able to follow through on them.

Most of all, I want closure on this incident. For many people, WW2 didn't end until the war criminals who escaped were brought to justice. I don't want blood, I just want the mess in India cleaned up.

Its sad...Dow has no responsibility to anyone other than its shareholders. This example showed this to be very true. The share price dropped when news of the humanitarian aid was brought to light, and news that this good deed was a hoax reassured investors that all was well at Dow.


But that's how the modern corporate form works. If Union Carbide had discharged all of it's legal liabilities before Dow purchased it, then what responsibility could Dow possible have for events that happened long before it came into control?

But that's how the modern corporate form works. If Union Carbide had discharged all of it's legal liabilities before Dow purchased it, then what responsibility could Dow possible have for events that happened long before it came into control?

Perhaps you are correct. Legally speaking Dow does not have a mandated responsibility for the clean-up. However, it does have its responsibility to humanity, something that can not be forced, only asked and expected of them.

As I said, right now there is no legal pressure on Dow to take responsibility for Union Carbide's disaster. I wish this would change because I personally see it as a weakness in our system. But it would require the US changing its own rules on corperate governance to do this; something VERY unlikely to happen as some people see helping others as bad for business.

And that is what makes me sad. It is bad...to be good.

Perhaps you are correct. Legally speaking Dow does not have a mandated responsibility for the clean-up. However, it does have its responsibility to humanity, something that can not be forced, only asked and expected of them.

As I said, right now there is no legal pressure on Dow to take responsibility for Union Carbide's disaster. I wish this would change because I personally see it as a weakness in our system. But it would require the US changing its own rules on corperate governance to do this; something VERY unlikely to happen as some people see helping others as bad for business.

And that is what makes me sad. It is bad...to be good.
But I don’t get why … THEY as in DOW had NO part in the disaster

None of their policies

None of their management

They had no decision in what safety measures were implemented
They were in no control of making sure they worked

Why should they be forced to take responsibility … they essentially bought the infrastructure.

I mean is it just cause they have money that they should pay? Forced philanthropy.

I mean if that is the case do you have any free money … your job to humanity to pay for it (even though you had no part in it either)

I just don’t get even beyond legally how they are responsible … there is NOTHING they could have done to change history as they didn’t own the place …

But I don’t get why … THEY as in DOW had NO part in the disaster

None of their policies

None of their management

They had no decision in what safety measures were implemented
They were in no control of making sure they worked

Why should they be forced to take responsibility … they essentially bought the infrastructure.

I mean is it just cause they have money that they should pay? Forced philanthropy.

I mean if that is the case do you have any free money … your job to humanity to pay for it (even though you had no part in it either)

I just don’t get even beyond legally how they are responsible … there is NOTHING they could have done to change history as they didn’t own the place …

You buy a company, you buy their liabilities as well as their assets. That is fundamental to business; otherwise companies who are bought out could declare they had nothing to do with debt incurred prior to their purchase.

*laughs at the uncredible democracynow.org article*

*laughs at the uncredible democracynow.org article*
Yeah I found a cnn article in there somewhere too … the basics seem to be about right (the linky is in there somewhere) (I don’t believe things from democracynow either that’s why I went and found another link) the 2 billion figure was not in there … though they did apologize for the mis release of that fake apology

You buy a company, you buy their liabilities as well as their assets. That is fundamental to business; otherwise companies who are bought out could declare they had nothing to do with debt incurred prior to their purchase.
Yeah but from what I have found they didn’t buy out the whole company … just that infrastructure ( could be wrong but thought they just bought the plant not the company)

You buy a company, you buy their liabilities as well as their assets. That is fundamental to business; otherwise companies who are bought out could declare they had nothing to do with debt incurred prior to their purchase.


Yes, but I thought all legal liabilities had been discharged. So they didn't assume any responsibility. (Otherwise the people who now own Krupps BMW I.G. Farben et al. have a lot of 'splaining to do).

Yes, but I thought all legal liabilities had been discharged. So they didn't assume any responsibility. (Otherwise the people who now own Krupps BMW I.G. Farben et al. have a lot of 'splaining to do).
That would make since too … I mean with as big of disaster as that was they would have to be idiots to think of purchasing UC without that being settled