NationStates Jolt Archive

All religious books were written by men, out of inspiration of god, or something like that, right?

What if those men, well, screwed up writing? A perfect, innocent grammar error that twisted the meaning of a phrase? Perhaps the text of the bible, of the koran, etc, have such innocent errors. Or maybe, some men may have altered the texts in time, is it not possible?

If so, can't all modern religions be the sum of small errors? Be big lies? Be, inperfect?

You forgot to add that there are always things lost in translations. And I've heard Christians say that the Bible is imperfect and written by men, but inspired by God. I haven't heard and Jews comment on the Torah or Muslims comment on the Koran, but the former don't really care what others think, and there aren't veyr many of the latter here. In all honesty, I really know nothing about Islam.

This reminds me of an old joke, where the pope dies and goes to Heaven, and while there, decides to read the original manuscripts of the bible. Eventually, some angels find him collapsed on the floor of Heaven's library, sobbing uncontrollably. When they calm him down, he starts wailing, "They left out the 'R'! The word was supposed to be 'celebrate'!"

This reminds me of an old joke, where the pope dies and goes to Heaven, and while there, decides to read the original manuscripts of the bible. Eventually, some angels find him collapsed on the floor of Heaven's library, sobbing uncontrollably. When they calm him down, he starts wailing, "They left out the 'R'! The word was supposed to be 'celebrate'!"
Or the '7th day advent hoppists' from red dwarf. Rimmer's parents belonged to a denomination where their copy of the bible had missed two letter e-s:
[paraphrase] And Jesus said 'the three greatest virtues are peace, love and hop. But the greatest of these is hop' [/someonecorrectmepleaseyouknowyouwanttoparaphrase]

In some of the newer translations of the Bible, they try to take in account possible typos and secondary meanings. And there are many versions of the Bible each with things said in different ways.

Or the '7th day advent hoppists' from red dwarf. Rimmer's parents belonged to a denomination where their copy of the bible had missed two letter e-s:
[paraphrase] And Jesus said 'the three greatest virtues are peace, love and hop. But the greatest of these is hop' [/someonecorrectmepleaseyouknowyouwanttoparaphrase]

Is that from the series, or the novels? I've read the novels but don't remember that particular joke.

All religious books were written by men, out of inspiration of god, or something like that, right?

What if those men, well, screwed up writing? A perfect, innocent grammar error that twisted the meaning of a phrase? Perhaps the text of the bible, of the koran, etc, have such innocent errors. Or maybe, some men may have altered the texts in time, is it not possible?

If so, can't all modern religions be the sum of small errors? Be big lies? Be, inperfect?
the greeks didnt use spaces between words, SOOOO there may well be many errors in the new testament

According to some scholar, the virgins Muslims are supposed to get in heaven are actually pieces of soft fruit.

Orthodox Christianity holds that these books are not perfect because they were written by human hand. That is why the church needs to interpret them and why that interpretation can change as the passage of history brings a better understanding of the original meaning intended by the Holy Spirit. It also believes that all holy books of the worlds great religions contain the truth to some extent and are therefore of importance in understanding the truth. Of course they would say also that the bible (meaning the version in ancient greek) is the most true book.

All religious books were written by men, out of inspiration of god, or something like that, right?

What if those men, well, screwed up writing? A perfect, innocent grammar error that twisted the meaning of a phrase? Perhaps the text of the bible, of the koran, etc, have such innocent errors. Or maybe, some men may have altered the texts in time, is it not possible?

If so, can't all modern religions be the sum of small errors? Be big lies? Be, inperfect?

Moslems believe the Koran was written by Allah and given to the Prophet by the angel Gabriel. As Allah Himself wrote the Koran and Allah is perfect, there is no error in the Koran. It is the perfect book.

Actually, grammer was created for the purpose of making the bible easier to read, so that preachers wouldn't screw up and tell people something that will make someone go to hell. King Charlamain did it sometime during his reign.

Actually, grammer was created for the purpose of making the bible easier to read, so that preachers wouldn't screw up and tell people something that will make someone go to hell. King Charlamain did it sometime during his reign.
I think that grammer probably predates Charlemaine, perhaps you mean that he standardised early French grammer? (I'm guessing with it being French)

Moslems believe the Koran was written by Allah and given to the Prophet by the angel Gabriel. As Allah Himself wrote the Koran and Allah is perfect, there is no error in the Koran. It is the perfect book.
There is still a flaw, and that is the human element, for it is still up to ordinary people to interpret the book. And if one group decides that a particular passage refers to virgins, and another decides it refers to a bowl of fruit, and the two sides decide that the others are infidels who must be exterminated to make God happy...well, there you have the origin of a thosand conflicts. Ultimately the text itself is arbitrary, as people will interpret it to support their own views, which they hold already.

God is a make believe friend for adults.
Great movie quote. :p

Well... the oldest Torah found was the Dead Sea Scrolls from around 2000 years ago.

So, i think we're doing OK so far, in copying the book down through the centuries.

Moslems believe the Koran was written by Allah and given to the Prophet by the angel Gabriel. As Allah Himself wrote the Koran and Allah is perfect, there is no error in the Koran. It is the perfect book.

No ... we know that Qur'an wasn't written in Muhammed's(pbuh) lifetime. It was written by his successor and compiled later. It was revealed to Muhammed, but Muhammed never wrote it down. He only spoke it. Hence the recitation of Qur'an being so important.

The written form of Qur'an has remained unchanged (in Arabic) since it was first written. No revisions, no spelling changes, no grammatical changes ... for 1400 years!

Torah has also remained (in Hebrew, anyway) completely unchanged for 2500+ years!

Not too shabby.

Actually, grammer was created for the purpose of making the bible easier to read, so that preachers wouldn't screw up and tell people something that will make someone go to hell. King Charlamain did it sometime during his reign.
That should be "Charlemagne"... ;)

That should be "Charlemagne"... ;)
Thanks, thought there was something wrong there :) but all I did was add an e

Well... the oldest Torah found was the Dead Sea Scrolls from around 2000 years ago.

So, i think we're doing OK so far, in copying the book down through the centuries.
there was a full torah found with the dead sea scrolls?
are you sure?

Remember the famous camel through the eye of a needle quote? "Camel" is just one leter away in Greek from "rope", and you've got to admit, "rope" makes more sense than "camel".

Remember the famous camel through the eye of a needle quote? "Camel" is just one leter away in Greek from "rope", and you've got to admit, "rope" makes more sense than "camel".

First of all, are you trying to prove your point by misspelling "letter"?

Secondly, it helps to have a good idea of what that passage is referring to. The "eye of the needle" was a side-gate into the city of Jerusalem. Since it was fairly small (less than 5 ft. high, I believe), a camel would have to be made to kneel down and shuffle through it- not impossible, but rather difficult.

there was a full torah found with the dead sea scrolls?
are you sure?

"The Dead Sea Scrolls are a collection of about 850 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible"


They had other things as well, but it did include the Torah, or from what i can tell a good chunk of it.

Dead Sea Scrolls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_scrolls)

"The Dead Sea Scrolls are a collection of about 850 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible"


They had other things as well, but it did include the Torah, or from what i can tell a good chunk of it.

Dead Sea Scrolls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_scrolls)
It also contained many books that the early Christian church ruled as heretical. It is thought to have been the library of a Christian cult that died out as it was not a mainstream one. They are often books that contradict the official Torah and Bible and at the time were seen as leading to serious deviation to accepted canon. A lot of the controversy was related to the nature of the Trinity, whether Christ was mortal or not when on Earth and the details of the story of Christ. Much of the texts were written before the church was very organised and it was later that this cleaning up of the texts was carried out. It includes excerpts from many books which did not become canon but were proposed by various movements within early Christianity.