NationStates Jolt Archive

See, I'm an Atheist Conservative against abortion.

Now you may ask, "why?"

Here is why:

1) Since the 1970's there has been more than 45 Million babies aborted

2) China will soon become the world superpower.

3) One thing that makes China dangerous is it's overwhelming population

4) If the US wants to stay in the world power spot, we'll need to be able to match China man for man (Which can happen If Abortion is outlawed and China continues to have Pop. Control)

5) A War between China and the US is I think, Inevitable.

Face it, if these 45 Million were allowed to live, by now lets say 50% of them had kids. That would be 22.5 Million extra kids in the US' Population.

293,027,571 + 45 Million + 22.5 Million = 360.5 Million In the US' population. Think of the Nation's GDP, Workforce, Police Numbers, and of course, the glorius Armed Services.

Now this may be a twisted reason for the banning of Abortion, but I think it's necessary to secure America a spot in the future.

Not disgusting, although slightly paranoid.

A little crazy?!

Uhhh....

Why exactly is a war vs. China inevitable?

Uhhh....

Why exactly is a war vs. China inevitable?

It just is.

America doesn't like competition, and China, they want that #1 spot no matter what the consequences are.

If you think that a war between China and the US isn't inevitable, you're living a fantasy world.

What a load of crap.

Face it, if these 45 Million were allowed to live, by now lets say 50% of them had kids. That would be 22.5 Million extra kids in the US' Population.
If half were boys and half were girls, then you're assuming that every single one of these potential people paired up and had a kid.

If half were boys and half were girls, then you're assuming that every single one of these potential people paired up and had a kid.


Well he's assuming that only half of them had one kid each. Given that some would have more, it seems reasonable.

It just is.

America doesn't like competition, and China, they want that #1 spot no matter what the consequences are.

If you think that a war between China and the US isn't inevitable, you're living a fantasy world.There was never a war with Russia, and, for the same reason, they'll never be a war with China. It would be far, far too catastrophic for both sides.

Also, China is a huge consumer of American goods. And its steadily leaning to be more and more capitalist anyway.

If you think that a war between China and the US isn't inevitable, you're living a fantasy world.
You should do a thread on that subject, heck I grew up in a world where a lot of people thought war with the soviet union was inevitable, thank fuck it never happened.

See, I'm an Atheist Conservative against abortion.

Now you may ask, "why?"

Here is why:

1) Since the 1970's there has been more than 45 Million babies aborted

2) China will soon become the world superpower.

3) One thing that makes China dangerous is it's overwhelming population

4) If the US wants to stay in the world power spot, we'll need to be able to match China man for man (Which can happen If Abortion is outlawed and China continues to have Pop. Control)

5) A War between China and the US is I think, Inevitable.

Face it, if these 45 Million were allowed to live, by now lets say 50% of them had kids. That would be 22.5 Million extra kids in the US' Population.

293,027,571 + 45 Million + 22.5 Million = 360.5 Million In the US' population. Think of the Nation's GDP, Workforce, Police Numbers, and of course, the glorius Armed Services.

Now this may be a twisted reason for the banning of Abortion, but I think it's necessary to secure America a spot in the future.Also, why outlaw abortion? Why not just make it easier to immigrate?

Well he's assuming that only half of them had one kid each. Given that some would have more, it seems reasonable.
No, I mean, you need 2 people to make a kid. Of the total population of 45mil, it would be 25% if 1/2 of all the couples had kids.

Umm...war w/China? But abortion is wrong anyway because it's just a fancy term for killing babies.

You are correct in that when China and India become fully capitalist, America is royally screwed. In the butt. But I don't think competing to see who can overpopulate the fastest is the proper way to address that. And it is kind of disgusting, at least partially because you're considering the economy before the environment. That's inexcusable.

Well... you're mad.

Theres no way that America can compete with China population wise... because you're already what? nearly a billion people behind... you can't close that gap.

Plus... your arguement only makes me smile... because its silly :)

293,027,571 + 45 Million + 22.5 Million = 360.5 Million In the US' population. Think of the Nation's GDP, Workforce, Police Numbers, and of course, the glorius Armed Services.



think of the poverty rates and crime rates, I think youre being self-delusional to where the would-be abortees usually end up:foster homes

Now, heres a few statistics of my own:
1) 30% of the US hmeless population at one time lived in a foster home.
2) 80% of the Jail population has either been given up for adoption or given into foster homes

Think about the posibilities if we had aborted all of those givn up for adoption: so much less welfare to come out of your pocket, so much less crime...

Why would people want America to stay as the dominant world power for another century anyway? Doesn't anyone think they've had their day in the sun?

293,027,571 + 45 Million + 22.5 Million = 360.5 Million In the US' population. Think of the Nation's GDP, Workforce, Police Numbers, and of course, the glorius Armed Services.
The USA wouldn't be the same with 70 million new people.

Most of the people who have abortions are those who are OK with abortions. If all of those babies were born, the majority of them would probably be brought up in liberal or Democratic households. Imagine 30 years of Carterish presidents :(

If half were boys and half were girls, then you're assuming that every single one of these potential people paired up and had a kid.

Whoops, messed up.

45 Million = Let's say 22.5 Million Girls and Boys (Lets assume it's an even split which actually won't occur)

Half of of the 22.5 Million boys and Girls with Kids = About 11 Million. So make that 350. Something in the US' Population.

Still better than 293 Mil.

Uhhh....

Why exactly is a war vs. China inevitable?
Whenever a challenger to the power of the hegemonic nation arises the hegemonic nation will attempt to (and usualy does) humble the upstart. But the hegemonic nation is so devastated by the war, that their hegemony is broken. The two most obvious examples are: Rome with the Hunnic Empire, and Great Britain with Imperial Germany.

Even though the hegemonic nation wins, their military is in shambles and no power stands to rise to dominance for a while.

Now, the situation is altered with the introduction of strategic nuclear weapons and, for the US, the limited missile shield as well. A failure of the hegemony might be avoided, but a dreadful nuclear holocaust would be the result.

Imagine 30 years of Carterish presidents :(*practically orgasms at the thought*

Now with these influx of Kids, what I would have prposed is to have Mandatory..."Patriotic" classes throught Elementary, Middle, and HighSchool.

The purpose of this class would be to make kids appreciative of their country, become more Patriotic and encourage and suggest that joining the Armed Services is the most noble and glorius thing to do.

Some may call that brainwashing, I call it "Patriotism"

No, I mean, you need 2 people to make a kid. Of the total population of 45mil, it would be 25% if 1/2 of all the couples had kids.


Yeah, half of them have one kid each. Given most couples in the US have over two kids, that seems reasonable, does it not?

*practically orgasms at the thought*
*multiply orgasms all over the thought*
wel...wast that refreshing

Yeah, half of them have one kid each. Given most couples in the US have over two kids, that seems reasonable, does it not?

I actually made a mistake. Spoon was right.

So instead of 22.5 Million Kids, make it 11 Million. Also, with some couples having two kids, it could get maybe 15 - 18 Million.

Now with these influx of Kids, what I would have prposed is to have Mandatory..."Patriotic" classes throught Elementary, Middle, and HighSchool.

The purpose of this class would be to make kids appreciative of their country, become more Patriotic and encourage and suggest that joining the Armed Services is the most noble and glorius thing to do.

Some may call that brainwashing, I call it "Patriotism"

yeah...I'm gonna stick to calling it brainwashing...

What's so bad about teaching kids to be Patriotic for their country?

Why would people want America to stay as the dominant world power for another century anyway? Doesn't anyone think they've had their day in the sun?

Maybe - and this is just idle conjecture here - Americans would.

BTW. have you ever been to the US, and do you know anything about it?

I actually made a mistake. Spoon was right.

So instead of 22.5 Million Kids, make it 11 Million. Also, with some couples having two kids, it could get maybe 15 - 18 Million.


You'd get at least 22.5 million kids from 45 million people. Look at the CIA fact book, the US population is growing even without immigration.

What's so bad about teaching kids to be Patriotic for their country?
theres nothing wrong about teaching kids patriotism, dont get me wrong, but theres a line between " patriotic little americans" and "hitler youth".
The problem is that it will lead to
a: always beleiving the government, and trusting the government to be what is best for their country
b: an american "hitler youth" would inevitably lead to an american " edelweiss pirates" which could be counter productive, and foster communism

Firstly, the original number was right for what he was trying to say, unless each of the abortion kids had to hook up with another one. There is the logical possiblity that they would hook up with someone else whom is not included in the 45 million number.

Secondly, right now the population wouldn't directly effect the ability to fight a war. I truly doubt that Chinese troops would ever be able to land in the US so therefore their numbers wouldn't matter.

I actually made a mistake. Spoon was right.

So instead of 22.5 Million Kids, make it 11 Million. Also, with some couples having two kids, it could get maybe 15 - 18 Million.
Spoffin

Firstly, the original number was right for what he was trying to say, unless each of the abortion kids had to hook up with another one. There is the logical possiblity that they would hook up with someone else whom is not included in the 45 million number.

Secondly, right now the population wouldn't directly effect the ability to fight a war. I truly doubt that Chinese troops would ever be able to land in the US so therefore their numbers wouldn't matter.

Still a precaution.

And also, "eldeweiss pirates?" Fostering Communism? WTF?

Spoffin


How did you get that anyway. It sounds like boffin.

Spoffin

LMFAO

XD

Sorry.

This it to reply to the first post:

Roflmao. I got even a better/more paranoid/crazier idea, just make sex mandatory every night for all women that can yield children and doesn't have STDs. Every guy will be joyous. The unwanted children will be collected by the government, and trained to be soldiers/army scientist from their childhood. That way, our miltary power will be even bigger and unmatched.
So a few civil rights go out, big deal. just think of our power!!1

(btw, i don't actually want this. It's a joke)

Maybe - and this is just idle conjecture here - Americans would.

BTW. have you ever been to the US, and do you know anything about it?
And I'm sure that the Romans and the British thought their empire was pretty swish as well, that doesn't mean I'd still want them kicking around.

And, ignoring the attempt at ad hominem, yes I have been to the US and yes, I do know something about it, and as a piece of unsolicited information, I like it as well. However, I don't like the general attitude that the US seems to take towards the rest of the world, and I don't think that having one dominant power, whatever that power is, is a good thing.

And, ignoring the attempt at ad hominem, yes I have been to the US and yes, I do know something about it, and as a piece of unsolicited information, I like it as well. However, I don't like the general attitude that the US seems to take towards the rest of the world, and I don't think that having one dominant power, whatever that power is, is a good thing.

It wasn't ad hominem, I was genuinely curious becuase sometimes your opinions about the US are quite uninformed. That's all.

It wasn't ad hominem, I was genuinely curious becuase sometimes your opinions about the US are quite uninformed. That's all.
Uninformed as in... not sychophantic?

Any evidence for that claim?

A number of points - mostly replying to the first post


A) You're assuming that population has a direct link to outcome in military conflicts. This has no empirical evidence - indeed, the British empire managed to conquer a quarter of the world, with a tiny population. In an age of nuclear, chemical and biological warfare, your logic is especially flawed

B) You're forgetting about the economic drain from having an extra 45 million babies who were not cared for by their parents and therefore ended up on welfare. This would surely impinge greatly America's fighting abilities.

I suggest you actually read up on some basic military strategy before coming up with more, to put it lightly, obscure ideas...There is much out there - but I'd focus on academic journals, articles etc. Stay away from politically motivated journals.

Uninformed as in... not sychophantic?

Any evidence for that claim?

1. John Kerry was an unknown before the current presidential election.

2. The US has no native cuisine.

Those are two off the top of my head.

Edit: Oh yeah the other day you described being an actor in the US as brutal. WTF ?

We can barelly house, clothe and feed the 360 million we've already got.

It's not numbers that would win us a war, it's training, qulity of equipment and willpower. We couldn't win a land war with China, but we have good allies, and a huge number of bombs (not just nuclear), we could probably bomb them into submission, and do the rest on land.

So basically what you, Imperial Puerto Rico, are saying is we should start a "population arms race" with China? So in this fantasy world you claim I'm living in, does the US not blow up anyone who is one of their biggest economic allies?

Oh and please don't throw the "I am an athiest" on the beginning. It makes us look bad.

Right, and the socialist/Communist Atheists which seem to be in abundance don't make us look bad. Riiiiiiiiight....

Communism - the ideal that everyone is equal

Capitalism - everyone for themselves



So, capitalism = selfishness

Communism = putting others at the same level as yourself

Implementation methods aside

Surely the communist ideal is better?

I mean, according to your 'theory' you'd need a socialist/communist system just to feed, clothe and educate your 45 million babies.

Communism - the ideal that everyone is equal

Capitalism - everyone for themselves



So, capitalism = selfishness

Communism = putting others at the same level as yourself

Implementation methods aside

Surely the communist ideal is better?

I mean, according to your 'theory' you'd need a socialist/communist system just to feed, clothe and educate your 45 million babies.

Too bad Humans are naturally selfish.

We can barelly house, clothe and feed the 360 million we've already got.

It's not numbers that would win us a war, it's training, qulity of equipment and willpower. We couldn't win a land war with China, but we have good allies, and a huge number of bombs (not just nuclear), we could probably bomb them into submission, and do the rest on land.

300 million

Imagine 30 years of Carterish presidents :(



Instead, you've got 30 years of Bushish Presidents.

What's so bad about teaching kids to be Patriotic for their country?

Why should anyone be proud of the fact that they were born in a certain country? I'm certainly not going to feel obligated to a country just because my mother happened to give birth within its borders.

Sorry, wandering off the point. But patriotism perplexes me. As for the reasoning stated here, it's wrong. Better minds than me have outlined why it's wrong.

See, I'm an Atheist Conservative against abortion.

Now you may ask, "why?"

why?

Here is why:

ok

1) Since the 1970's there has been more than 45 Million babies aborted

good point. I think that would do as an argument against abortion.

2) China will soon become the world superpower.

not soon, and possibly not ever. In my lifetime, it may well become the largest economic power, but not a general global superpower this century, if ever.

3) One thing that makes China dangerous is it's overwhelming population

only if you have a negativist, war-tinted mind. It's 'overwhelming population' gives it a tendency towards strong rule, and a distinct economic advantage due to the vast supply of underemployed and unemployed workers. That's about all.

4) If the US wants to stay in the world power spot, we'll need to be able to match China man for man (Which can happen If Abortion is outlawed and China continues to have Pop. Control)

China no longer has strict population control (ie. One Child Policy), and the US can never 'match China man for man'.
There are many other things America needs to do to stay in the 'world power spot' that get a higher priority than lots of people. One being trying to get the rest of the world not to hate it.

5) A War between China and the US is I think, Inevitable.

You think that. Fair enough. A war between the two countries is likely. But not a full-out war. More likely an economic war or a proxy war. And China won the last one.

Face it, if these 45 Million were allowed to live, by now lets say 50% of them had kids. That would be 22.5 Million extra kids in the US' Population.

That's unlikely. Very unlikely. That means that all 45 million of them would have to be in a child-bearing relationship - including those who were aborted yesterday...interesting.

293,027,571 + 45 Million + 22.5 Million = 360.5 Million In the US' population. Think of the Nation's GDP, Workforce, Police Numbers, and of course, the glorius Armed Services.

Yes, think of it.
A higher GDP, but a lower per capite GDP. A workforce with even more underemployment. A police force over-run by crime in increasingly crowded and slum-like urban areas. A glorious armed forces that continues to recruit from such slums. Oh, and spends even more of the nation's GDP.

Now this may be a twisted reason for the banning of Abortion, but I think it's necessary to secure America a spot in the future.

It is twisted, but it is not necessary.
Do some thinking before you copy that stuff into here.

You are:
1) A dumbass who copied that view from another equally dumb source without even thinking about the words you copied.

2) A dumbass who came up with that disturbingly nationalistic, war-moungering, negativist viewpoint that holds no real academic or moral merit.

Too bad Humans are naturally selfish.



As I said, you can argue with the implementation -

but surely it is better to live your life aspiring to a higher ideal

than to give up and live life as a selfish capitalist


Even if you disagree with that notion - you at least see that communism is a good ideal - and it is not something that you should feel ashamed or scornful of...

Communism - the ideal that everyone is equal

Capitalism - everyone for themselves



So, capitalism = selfishness

Communism = putting others at the same level as yourself

Implementation methods aside

Surely the communist ideal is better?

I mean, according to your 'theory' you'd need a socialist/communist system just to feed, clothe and educate your 45 million babies.




Communism isn't better because everyone isn't equal.

If people were RESPONSIBLE they wouldn't be having unprotected sex out of wedlock.If people were RESPONSIBLE there wouldn't be the huge number of bankruptcies we see today.If people gave a shit they would buy american made products instead of maxing out their credit cards buying chinese trinkets they don't really need thereby fueling the growth of the red army and our own demise.If people gave a crap about their futures then everyone would be working hard,studying,planning for the future and be RESPONSIBLE for their own actions (or inactions).Instead we see a bunch of bed-wetting,excuse making,thumb-sucking liberal mama boys (and girls) sucking off the government tit.Half of americans can't even tell you who the vice-president is or how our government works...so what happens?We get a bunch of crooked ass politicians who promise us the moon and we buy it-hook,line and sinker.

So we should have pre-emptive babies in order to ensure we can go toe to toe with China in some imagined impending conflict?

Wow ... now *that's* paranoid! Surely there must be a prize for that ...

1. John Kerry was an unknown before the current presidential election.

No he wasn't. Most of us who pay attention to the Senate knew of him. Just because he wasn't internationally known doesn't mean he was an unknown.

2. The US has no native cuisine.

Pfft! Fried Chicken, Barbecue, Tex-mex, Cajun ....

Who's to say its in the best interests of the US to be world hegemon anyway?

I mean, its people are in a similar economic situation to those in Western Europe - and yet they have a lot less of the pain of trying to 'police' the world - suffer far less risk of terrorism, and so forth

And I certainly don't think its in the best interest of the world for the US to be hegemon


Maybe China would win a US-China war. Maybe that would be a good thing, better than if the US won it and inevitably imposed its 'democratic imperium' upon a defeated China.

Perhaps a world order led by the Chinese would be a fairer place. It would certainly be more democratic (1.2 billion chinese leading the world seems more democratic to me than 281 million Americans)*


*I appreciate population figures are rough estimates, and thats why we all differ slightly in our figures

Now with these influx of Kids, what I would have prposed is to have Mandatory..."Patriotic" classes throught Elementary, Middle, and HighSchool.

The purpose of this class would be to make kids appreciative of their country, become more Patriotic and encourage and suggest that joining the Armed Services is the most noble and glorius thing to do.

Some may call that brainwashing, I call it "Patriotism"

now let me see...that sort of thing sounds familiar to me....

oh yes. Communist Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, just about every extremist dictator the world has ever seen...and finally, Communist China. The very country you want to screw over because it's too bad and nasty to become a global superpower, you also wish to emulate. Effort.
You'll be trying to ban hunting next.

oh yes. Communist Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, just about every extremist dictator the world has ever seen...and finally, Communist China. The very country you want to screw over because it's too bad and nasty to become a global superpower, you also wish to emulate. Effort.
You'll be trying to ban hunting next.


Interestingly, there have been more total deaths in capitalist, democratic India between 1949 and the present than there were in the entire communist world post 1949.

Who's to say its in the best interests of the US to be world hegemon anyway?

I mean, its people are in a similar economic situation to those in Western Europe - and yet they have a lot less of the pain of trying to 'police' the world - suffer far less risk of terrorism, and so forth

And I certainly don't think its in the best interest of the world for the US to be hegemon


Maybe China would win a US-China war. Maybe that would be a good thing, better than if the US won it and inevitably imposed its 'democratic imperium' upon a defeated China.

Perhaps a world order led by the Chinese would be a fairer place. It would certainly be more democratic (1.2 billion chinese leading the world seems more democratic to me than 281 million Americans)*


*I appreciate population figures are rough estimates, and thats why we all differ slightly in our figures

Good point. Although US can never win a war against China. Neither can China...it'll end in MAD for them...or possibly the world.
Nice.

Just for the record, China currently has 1.3 billion people

No he wasn't. Most of us who pay attention to the Senate knew of him. Just because he wasn't internationally known doesn't mean he was an unknown.



Pfft! Fried Chicken, Barbecue, Tex-mex, Cajun ....


Thank you.

Those were things that spoffin said, and I was citing them back to show that he was, in fact, uninformed about the US.

You prove my point; he needs to more research.

Edit: Don't forget my fav. US food, low country.

Who's to say its in the best interests of the US to be world hegemon anyway?

I mean, its people are in a similar economic situation to those in Western Europe - and yet they have a lot less of the pain of trying to 'police' the world - suffer far less risk of terrorism, and so forth

And I certainly don't think its in the best interest of the world for the US to be hegemon


Maybe China would win a US-China war. Maybe that would be a good thing, better than if the US won it and inevitably imposed its 'democratic imperium' upon a defeated China.

Perhaps a world order led by the Chinese would be a fairer place. It would certainly be more democratic (1.2 billion chinese leading the world seems more democratic to me than 281 million Americans)*


*I appreciate population figures are rough estimates, and thats why we all differ slightly in our figures




Imagine Tianamen Square like happening in Washington and London. Yes, that would be a fair and equal world.

i somewat agree with you but if the only reason you can think of to stop abortion is so u.s can win war with china by useing all those kids to attack? and correct me if im wrong but abotion is only done is before the baby is a baby and just some cells

Good point. Although US can never win a war against China. Neither can China...it'll end in MAD for them...or possibly the world.
Nice.

Just for the record, China currently has 1.3 billion people


Yes, and if there is MAD then population estimates will be far easier (zero is fairly definite)


Yes, my figures are old, but there also seems to be much figure inflation going on here, so I figured I'd stick with them until I have a look through actual academic sources

Imagine Tianamen Square like happening in Washington and London. Yes, that would be a fair and equal world.

Don't have to imagine.

It happened already, remember the Bonus March.

Interestingly, there have been more total deaths in capitalist, democratic India between 1949 and the present than there were in the entire communist world post 1949.

Are you sure?
Communist leaders have (through their actions) killed an estimated 150 million people since 1945.
What's the figure for India?

As I said, you can argue with the implementation -

but surely it is better to live your life aspiring to a higher ideal

than to give up and live life as a selfish capitalist


Even if you disagree with that notion - you at least see that communism is a good ideal - and it is not something that you should feel ashamed or scornful of...
I am scornful of Communism, for all the same reasons im scornful of anarchism:
Noble, but very naive and incredibly stupid.

Imagine Tianamen Square like happening in Washington and London. Yes, that would be a fair and equal world.

i don't know what you're getting at there...
and tiananmen square wasn't just about brutal oppression of people - the killing was mainly brought on by the Chinese culture - which is not to say Chinese culture is bad.

1. John Kerry was an unknown before the current presidential election.Compared to the other candidates, he was not getting the press coverage, and as a Massachussets senator, he gets eclipsed by Ted Kennedy. I may have overstated the case, but broadly I stand by the sentiment.

2. The US has no native cuisine. Not serious, (it was a joke debate where I also went OTT defending bad British cooking), but pointing out the fact that the US is a melting pot of other influences that combine to create its own

Edit: Oh yeah the other day you described being an actor in the US as brutal. WTF ?Relative to other professions, your chance of advancement and the payscale are pretty miserable.

I am scornful of Communism, for all the same reasons im scornful of anarchism:
Noble, but very naive and incredibly stupid.

I wouldn't say Communism and anarchism are stupid...but I would say they are very very naive and idealist

i don't know what you're getting at there...
and tiananmen square wasn't just about brutal oppression of people - the killing was mainly brought on by the Chinese culture - which is not to say Chinese culture is bad.


Bonus march.

What the Chinese government did is nothing that western governments wouldn't have done in due course.

Imagine Tianamen Square like happening in Washington and London. Yes, that would be a fair and equal world.


Imagine Guatanamo bay happening in American Territory...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine American military and intelligence forces using torture and crude military barbarism in military campaigns around the world...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America economically exploiting developing and developed countries alike

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America invading other countries because it disagreed with their sovereign right to choose a government...You know, like invading Cuba or Iraq for regime change purposes...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America selling arms abroad to military dictators, propping up military dictatorships for its own ends...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America renouncing the Geneva convention as non-binding to them...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America ignoring the UN and renouncing it as Irrelevant

Oh, wait, thats true...

Get the picture? America is not a good world leader. China could not be worse

Bonus march.

What the Chinese government did is nothing that western governments wouldn't have done in due course.

Good point. I agree.

i don't know what you're getting at there...
and tiananmen square wasn't just about brutal oppression of people - the killing was mainly brought on by the Chinese culture - which is not to say Chinese culture is bad.




General Fran the Red mentioned how much fairer a China lead world would be compared to the current US lead world. I gave a simple example of how the Chinese governments treats its own people for protesting, so imagine in other countries what would happen if China controlled them.

Imagine Guatanamo bay happening in American Territory...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine American military and intelligence forces using torture and crude military barbarism in military campaigns around the world...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America economically exploiting developing and developed countries alike

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America invading other countries because it disagreed with their sovereign right to choose a government...You know, like invading Cuba or Iraq for regime change purposes...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America selling arms abroad to military dictators, propping up military dictatorships for its own ends...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America renouncing the Geneva convention as non-binding to them...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America ignoring the UN and renouncing it as Irrelevant

Oh, wait, thats true...

Get the picture? America is not a good world leader. China could not be worse




Sure it couldn't be :rolleyes:.

If people were RESPONSIBLE they wouldn't be having unprotected sex out of wedlock.If people were RESPONSIBLE there wouldn't be the huge number of bankruptcies we see today.If people gave a shit they would buy american made products instead of maxing out their credit cards buying chinese trinkets they don't really need thereby fueling the growth of the red army and our own demise.If people gave a crap about their futures then everyone would be working hard,studying,planning for the future and be RESPONSIBLE for their own actions (or inactions).Instead we see a bunch of bed-wetting,excuse making,thumb-sucking liberal mama boys (and girls) sucking off the government tit.Half of americans can't even tell you who the vice-president is or how our government works...so what happens?We get a bunch of crooked ass politicians who promise us the moon and we buy it-hook,line and sinker.

wow...you are: paranoid ( the RED ARMY!! THE CHINESE!!!
RUN FOR THE HILLS!!)

anti-capitalist ( oh, lets only buy american-made products, thus breaking the American ( and conserative) logistic of allowing the market to regulate itself. Of course, lets allow american enterprises to not worry about quality or price, since well never buy Asian products-even if superior and cheaper- just because it will fuel the "red army")

If people gave a shit they would buy american made products instead of maxing out their credit cards buying chinese trinkets they don't really need thereby fueling the growth of the red army and our own demise.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0701/p01s03-usgn.html?related

Sure it couldn't be :rolleyes:.

Yes. A China led world would be better - I agree with you two guys. Was a little confused before tho.

What is this 'Bonus March'. To my shame, I've never heard of it...neither has Encarta.
Can someone please enlighten me?

Not disgusting, although slightly paranoid.

Just SLIGHTLY?

Just SLIGHTLY?
indeed, the man sounds insane

Yes. A China led world would be better - I agree with you two guys. Was a little confused before tho.

What is this 'Bonus March'. To my shame, I've never heard of it...neither has Encarta.
Can someone please enlighten me?

I assume you are not from the US.
Bonus March Here (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1513.html)

And normally I don't post links, because internet sources are never tell the whole story.

There is a much better description in American Ceaser by Manchester. The casulity figures were much higher than the above source indicates.

indeed, the man sounds insane
I do notice some similarities between him and George Bush. Namely in intellectual competence and knowledge on foreign affairs

Yes. A China led world would be better - I agree with you two guys. Was a little confused before tho.

What is this 'Bonus March'. To my shame, I've never heard of it...neither has Encarta.
Can someone please enlighten me?



Yes, getting the shit beaten out of me for protesting the government sounds wonderful. And lets not forget they are hiding the problem they are having with AIDS from the rest of the world. Oh ya, almost forgot the whole mess in Tibet.

Relative to other professions, your chance of advancement and the payscale are pretty miserable.

Re: actors.

The payscale is not miserable. The trick is to get into the union. You could say the same for pulley crane operators.

China is building a massive number of military transport boats where do you think they could go Taiwan?
Can America allow the chinese to invade Taiwan No
but Bush has held off giving Taiwan the Pats they have already paid for as ive heard.
If China does invade then Taiwan will get them

I assume you are not from the US.
Bonus March Here (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1513.html)

And normally I don't post links, because internet sources are never tell the whole story.

There is a much better description in American Ceaser by Manchester. The casulity figures were much higher than the above source indicates.

Oh dear!
No, I'm not American, although I'm surprised I hadn't heard of that before.

China is building a massive number of military transport boats where do you think they could go Taiwan?
Can America allow the chinese to invade Taiwan No
but Bush has held off giving Taiwan the Pats they have already paid for as ive heard.
If China does invade then Taiwan will get them

If china does try an assualt on taiwan, the results will be a blood bath.

Amphib assaults with air and naval superioty = the death ground.

Oh dear!
No, I'm not American, although I'm surprised I hadn't heard of that before.


Yes, we also keep the alleged military coup from the 30s secret too.

(Although to be honest that was a storm in a teacup, it never would have amounted to anything.)

And lets not forget they are hiding the problem they are having with AIDS from the rest of the world. Oh ya, almost forgot the whole mess in Tibet.

And what would would the rest of the world do? I can hardly see governments helping out China when they refuse to take effective measures to hepl out AIDS victims in other countries.

Can America allow the chinese to invade Taiwan No

Can America stop China invading Taiwan? No.
Does America dare stop China invading Taiwan? No.
Can America realistically do anything to reverse a Chinese invasion of Taiwan? (Without getting the whole world blown up) No.

Yes, we also keep the alleged military coup from the 30s secret too.

(Although to be honest that was a storm in a teacup, it never would have amounted to anything.)

I know so little about American and it's history!
I do have decent knowledge of specific areas...but not a broad awareness.
Shame really, although the countries I do know more about are more interesting and diverse (eg China, Russia & most of Europe)

Edit: Don't forget my fav. US food, low country.

:D

See, I'm an Atheist Conservative against abortion.

Now you may ask, "why?"

Here is why:

1) Since the 1970's there has been more than 45 Million babies aborted

2) China will soon become the world superpower.

3) One thing that makes China dangerous is it's overwhelming population

4) If the US wants to stay in the world power spot, we'll need to be able to match China man for man (Which can happen If Abortion is outlawed and China continues to have Pop. Control)

5) A War between China and the US is I think, Inevitable.

Face it, if these 45 Million were allowed to live, by now lets say 50% of them had kids. That would be 22.5 Million extra kids in the US' Population.

293,027,571 + 45 Million + 22.5 Million = 360.5 Million In the US' population. Think of the Nation's GDP, Workforce, Police Numbers, and of course, the glorius Armed Services.

Now this may be a twisted reason for the banning of Abortion, but I think it's necessary to secure America a spot in the future.

This obviously is an argument for mass human cloning.

This obviously is an argument for mass human cloning.
indeed it is

and of course, the glorius Armed Services.

please regale me with an example of the 'glory' of America's armed forces over the past 60 years. I don't seem to be able to spot one.

Re: actors.

The payscale is not miserable. The trick is to get into the union. You could say the same for pulley crane operators.As indeed I would.

please regale me with an example of the 'glory' of America's armed forces over the past 60 years. I don't seem to be able to spot one.
Just think of how many pseudo-wars we've had! What's more glorious than illegal police action on a major scale?

chinas population growth is in decline.... soon they will not be having enough babies to replace the people currently alive.

Whenever a challenger to the power of the hegemonic nation arises the hegemonic nation will attempt to (and usualy does) humble the upstart. But the hegemonic nation is so devastated by the war, that their hegemony is broken. The two most obvious examples are: Rome with the Hunnic Empire, and Great Britain with Imperial Germany.

Even though the hegemonic nation wins, their military is in shambles and no power stands to rise to dominance for a while.

Now, the situation is altered with the introduction of strategic nuclear weapons and, for the US, the limited missile shield as well. A failure of the hegemony might be avoided, but a dreadful nuclear holocaust would be the result.

Um, you should read up on your history, because if by "Hunnic Empire" you mean the Huns... the Romans hardly humbled them. They held them off the first time, in Gaul, but in the second Hun invasion, the Huns were at the gates of Rome before Atilla turned his army around. The legend goes that Pope Leo convinced him to, however, it might have been because of the need to quell a rebellion back home. And anyway, Rome was sacked by the Vandals, who were an ally of the Huns, about 20 years later.

Anyway, even if abortion was outlawed, the US would never have a hope of closing the gap between us and China. There's already a 1 billion difference. And frankly, I would prefer that we declined a bit in population, there are too many people here.

War with China is not inevitable, either. Relations are currently pretty good, and there is much trade between us. Also, people were saying in the 50's and 60's that war with the USSR was inevitable. Never happened. Why? Because the results would be almost too horrible to imagine. It is the same with China.

However, I'd rather have India dominate than China... though the prospects of an India-Pakistan nuclear war frighten me as well.

chinas population growth is in decline.... soon they will not be having enough babies to replace the people currently alive.

come on. if you're going to use statistics, back up what you say with numbers, and use some form of realistic fact. what you're saying is absolute rubbish, and always will be as long as China has hundreds of millions of people living in poor rural areas where babies = survival

all UN estimates are based on current figures given to us by Chinese officials...estimates that may be out by over 200million, as they seek to show how effective their one-child policy was

This obviously is an argument for mass human cloning.


Haha, Yes.

Actually, the whole more babies = more soliders for armies idea has something rather ominous about it.

While we are at it, we surely we should reorientate our economy towards war and such - I mean, currently we waste much of our economy on non-militarily linked luxuries - in the current state of affairs, we are not ready for a major global war, not as ready as we could be anyway - down with car manafacturing, up with tanks and missile building

Surely?

*I disagree with this logic, it is simply a continutation of the logic implied by the original author of the thread*

chinas population growth is in decline.... soon they will not be having enough babies to replace the people currently alive.

That's intentional. They instituted a very controversial law that allows a family to have only one child, to control their population.

Sure it couldn't be :rolleyes:.

I gave about 15 examples of how the US is a bad world ruler and this is all I get back?


Wow, what a great argument!

come on. if you're going to use statistics, back up what you say with numbers, and use some form of realistic fact. what you're saying is absolute rubbish, and always will be as long as China has hundreds of millions of people living in poor rural areas where babies = survival
Babies =/= survival in China. More than one baby and you might end up with a few more problems than not. The one child policy has effectively curbed (not stopped) population growth. I'll try to find a graph to show it to you...

See, I'm an Atheist Conservative against abortion.

Now you may ask, "why?"

Here is why:


4) If the US wants to stay in the world power spot, we'll need to be able to match China man for man (Which can happen If Abortion is outlawed and China continues to have Pop. Control)



I think we would win a war against china based on our technoldgy. I do not think we need to match them man for man. AFter all it only takes a few nuke fired at them to even out the population.
Also we need the coastal missile defence system so that they can not nuke us.

I think we would win a war against china based on our technoldgy. I do not think we need to match them man for man. AFter all it only takes a few nuke fired at them to even out the population.
Also we need the coastal missile defence system so that they can not nuke us.
No, it'd take more than "a few nuke[s]" to even out the population of China and the U.S. Quite a few more than "a few".

I think we would win a war against china based on our technoldgy. I do not think we need to match them man for man. AFter all it only takes a few nuke fired at them to even out the population.
Also we need the coastal missile defence system so that they can not nuke us.

Um, it would take more than a few, and at the same time, they'd be nuking us. Plus, I don't think the neighboring countries would like that. Also, the missile defence system doesn't work, has never been workable, and will never work. Any idiot knows that.

I think we would win a war against china based on our technoldgy. I do not think we need to match them man for man. AFter all it only takes a few nuke fired at them to even out the population.
Also we need the coastal missile defence system so that they can not nuke us.


I guess you missed the debacles of American attempts to build missile defence systems, including:

A) Star Wars (Didn't work, didn't even come close)

B) Patriot Missile System (Successfully 'intercepted' enemy missiles - unfortunately it turns out the US army definition of 'intercepted' was that it passed it in the air - and had nothing to do with actually hitting it - as you can imagine, the poor Israelis, who were getting hit by Iraqi scuds, only to be told that the missiles that had just hit them had actually been 'intercepted', were not too happy)

C) Son of Star Wars (So far I think the ratio of successful hits is about 1 in 3 - might sound impressive, until you bear in mind that that means if 300 nukes were launched against the US, 200 would get through. In addition, it is a very primitive system that does not take account for i) cruise missiles ii) MIRV missiles, etc

http://www.virtual-asia.com/ph/bizpak/reports/PBLSR040216_population.html

Here is a pretty good graphic from the above site,

http://www.virtual-asia.com/ph/bizpak/reports/images/040216f.gif

Babies =/= survival in China. More than one baby and you might end up with a few more problems than not. The one child policy has effectively curbed (not stopped) population growth. I'll try to find a graph to show it to you...

they do for the over 100 million people living in the inland crescent on china's borders. There are no graphs showing that. The population is still increasing at a rate of over 1% p.a - and that's using official figures. Any fair site which says that China's growth appears to be slowing will also say that there are probably some 100-200 million 'lost people', not counted in the census, and hence China's population is still growing without slowing - as per the UN's 'high' estimate, which most people see as most realistic, where population growth remains constant way past when the model ends in 2050.

I guess you missed the debacles of American attempts to build missile defence systems, including:

A) Star Wars (Didn't work, didn't even come close)

B) Patriot Missile System (Successfully 'intercepted' enemy missiles - unfortunately it turns out the US army definition of 'intercepted' was that it passed it in the air - and had nothing to do with actually hitting it - as you can imagine, the poor Israelis, who were getting hit by Iraqi scuds, only to be told that the missiles that had just hit them had actually been 'intercepted', were not too happy)

C) Son of Star Wars (So far I think the ratio of successful hits is about 1 in 3 - might sound impressive, until you bear in mind that that means if 300 nukes were launched against the US, 200 would get through. In addition, it is a very primitive system that does not take account for i) cruise missiles ii) MIRV missiles, etc

If at first you do not succeed then try try again ;)

I think we would win a war against china based on our technoldgy. I do not think we need to match them man for man. AFter all it only takes a few nuke fired at them to even out the population.
Also we need the coastal missile defence system so that they can not nuke us.
yes...i see. your mystical technology that allows you to be invincible against the thousands of chinese nuclear missile raining down on you...(and possibly russian too...if they fancied joining in for kicks, as their country would be affected by US nukes...

If at first you do not succeed then try try again ;)

Unfortunately you only get one actual test....


Fail that, and, well, it was good knowing you


Might be better to put faith in a slightly more secure way of ensuring future survival - like getting the world not to hate the US (anymore)

Might be better to put faith in a slightly more secure way of ensuring future survival - like getting the world not to hate the US (anymore)

I think the post & person that started this thread is a prime example as to why people hate the US. (that and it's president)

It just is.

America doesn't like competition, and China, they want that #1 spot no matter what the consequences are.

If you think that a war between China and the US isn't inevitable, you're living a fantasy world.

Then let's just nuke the bejesus out of them now! While they are still weak. Hell, let's nuke anyone who might disagree with us. Bye bye snail eaters (French) jk

they do for the over 100 million people living in the inland crescent on china's borders. There are no graphs showing that. The population is still increasing at a rate of over 1% p.a - and that's using official figures. Any fair site which says that China's growth appears to be slowing will also say that there are probably some 100-200 million 'lost people', not counted in the census, and hence China's population is still growing without slowing - as per the UN's 'high' estimate, which most people see as most realistic, where population growth remains constant way past
Interesting. Can you provide me with something with credibility that would show that the Chinese would voluntarily not list 10-15% of their people from the census? As foreigners we can speculate all we want about true Chinese population and economic growth rates, however, in the end without going in and counting it ourselves it is impossible to find out the real number. Since the Chinese government in its current form would never allow it, and no organization would want to put in the massive money required to do a census in a country the size of China, and "fair" website would be posting speculation and nothing else.

Then let's just nuke the bejesus out of them now! While they are still weak. Hell, let's nuke anyone who might disagree with us. Bye bye snail eaters (French) jk

Are you joking?
Because if you aren't, you're a stupid idiot who doesn't even deserve the right to speak, let alone breathe the same oxygen as the rest of the world.
I hardly see China having a few thousand nukes spread across the second largest land area in the world as being 'weak'.
Do it your way and the world ends, the only consolation being that you would die too.

Interesting. Can you provide me with something with credibility that would show that the Chinese would voluntarily not list 10-15% of their people from the census?

Yes. The essential idea of the CCP is to create a facade to the rest of the world, showing that communism in China is working. If they released population figures showing the real value, then their already internationally condemned one child policy would be shown as a failure, and the CCP would lose legitimacy internally and externally. This is a view accepted by most academics as correct, and has been proven correct by the CCP on numerous different policies, and is indeed embedded in Chinese culture - not wanting to lose face.

As an American, I wonder why the world hates us. I'm not one of those morons who think the world "Hates our freedoms" Canada is a lot more free than we are, and pretty much everyone likes Canada. I have ideas of course: various summits we refuse to agree on, (Kyoto, etc.) going in to Iraq with little world backing, and of course dum da da dum... The chimp in chief (George W. Bush for those of you unfamiliar with the nickname) Am I right, or not, please non-U.S. residents only.

P.S. I'm a liberal so don't worry about offending my nationalism a.k.a. Faith in Bush

If at first you do not succeed then try try again ;)
But as soon as we build a missile shield, someone will build a better missile. How will it help anything?

Are you joking?
Because if you aren't, you're a stupid idiot who doesn't even deserve the right to speak, let alone breathe the same oxygen as the rest of the world.
I hardly see China having a few thousand nukes spread across the second largest land area in the world as being 'weak'.
Do it your way and the world ends, the only consolation being that you would die too.

Yeah I was joking that's what the jk (just kidding) stood for. Also i meant relatively weak, not weak, weak. They will be getting a helluva lot stronger. Nobody intelligent I have met has denied that.

I think the post & person that started this thread is a prime example as to why people hate the US. (that and it's president)

Absolutely

That, and the American dream. Its not that the world envies America, as George Bush would have us believe - its that America tells them how wonderful the American way of life is - and then when they find out first hand that it isn't (far greater portions of the USA are in poverty than in the more socialist Western Europe) they are naturally resentful

But as soon as we build a missile shield, someone will build a better missile. How will it help anything?

Here's my idea on how they might pull it off.

1. Military keeps missle shield under wraps
2. Attack enemy country
3. Use secret defense to stop most of the damage
4. Laugh our heads off as we watch destruction

I hope we never do something like this though. This is just my idea on how they could puul it off.

As an American, I wonder why the world hates us. I'm not one of those morons who think the world "Hates our freedoms" Canada is a lot more free than we are, and pretty much everyone likes Canada. I have ideas of course: various summits we refuse to agree on, (Kyoto, etc.) going in to Iraq with little world backing, and of course dum da da dum... The chimp in chief (George W. Bush for those of you unfamiliar with the nickname) Am I right, or not, please non-U.S. residents only.

P.S. I'm a liberal so don't worry about offending my nationalism a.k.a. Faith in Bush

I could easily write a 10000 word dissertation on why the world hates America.
But in brief & in general, here's why:
1) The US desire to dominate the world, both economically, politically and culturally. (Unilateralism)
2) Coupled with the above; the US belief that it's systems and values are the best for all countries the world over.
3) George Bush (either)
4) US hypocriticism...eg. US opposition to nuclear proliferation, despite it inventing the stuff, and having the largest and most destructive nuclear arsenal.
5) The US treating some states one way, and other another...eg. Sudan, Rwanda, Zimbabwe & Israel, vs. Iraq, Afghanistan & 40+ other states it has bombed since WW2.

I personally agree with all of the above, along with many more.
This is not to say I hate all Americans (I don't)...I just hate their leaders and the attitudes said leaders impress upon the general population.

Hope that helps!

Lol @ 'Chimp in Chief'!

[QUOTE=General Fran the Red]


More reasons the world hates the US (From earlier by me in this same thread)

Imagine Guatanamo bay happening in American Territory...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine American military and intelligence forces using torture and crude military barbarism in military campaigns around the world...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America economically exploiting developing and developed countries alike

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America invading other countries because it disagreed with their sovereign right to choose a government...You know, like invading Cuba or Iraq for regime change purposes...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America selling arms abroad to military dictators, propping up military dictatorships for its own ends...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America renouncing the Geneva convention as non-binding to them...

Oh, wait, thats true...

Imagine America ignoring the UN and renouncing it as Irrelevant

Oh, wait, thats true...

Interestingly, there have been more total deaths in capitalist, democratic India between 1949 and the present than there were in the entire communist world post 1949.

India = corrupt backwords government, with entrenched class system and deeply divided religious beliefs.

Yes. The essential idea of the CCP is to create a facade to the rest of the world, showing that communism in China is working. If they released population figures showing the real value, then their already internationally condemned one child policy would be shown as a failure, and the CCP would lose legitimacy internally and externally. This is a view accepted by most academics as correct, and has been proven correct by the CCP on numerous different policies, and is indeed embedded in Chinese culture - not wanting to lose face.
I can see the rationale for it, but that dosen't necessarily mean its true. Many economists think that China has been bloating its economic growth figures for years. Still, I don't think it is unreasonable to think that population growth may have been curbed, even if not at the rate government says. Even if the massive economic growth and one-child policy is limited to mainly the coastal lands, thats still a massive number of people being effected by it. Granted, not as large as if it was the whole of China, but still enough to make some sort of dent.

China is a dead dog economically.

3) One thing that makes China dangerous is it's overwhelming population
Which is aging at an even faster pace then every Western country. 1 child policy. And a war between the US and China wouldn't necesseraly be a bad thing.

I gave about 15 examples of how the US is a bad world ruler and this is all I get back?


Wow, what a great argument!




Your point? I can give you a list at least that long why China would be a bad ruler and if you want one, just ask.

And a war between the US and China wouldn't necesseraly be a bad thing.

name one positive thing for the human race that will come about from a war between the US and China that destroys the human race for good....

Here's my idea on how they might pull it off.

1. Military keeps missle shield under wraps
2. Attack enemy country
3. Use secret defense to stop most of the damage
4. Laugh our heads off as we watch destruction

I hope we never do something like this though. This is just my idea on how they could pull it off.But the point of the missile shield is to act as a detterant, so that other countries won't bomb you because they know that they'll provoke all out war without gaining the first strike advantage.

Yours is what I'd call the Dr Strangelove Scenario

China is a dead dog economically.
<<DeaconDave Mode>>
Have you ever been to China, and do you know anything about it?

America doesn't like competition


Competition is the basis of capitalism, the very thing that divides us from communist China.

Those are very logical thoughts.

Abortion is just a fancy term to say it's okay to kill your own children, but no one can kill them without your permission. And abortion doctors break their own hippocratic oath. :rolleyes:

By the same vein, Fairly...

Religion is just a fancy term to say it's okay to oppress other people who don't think like you do, so long as you make up some good-sounding scripture and get a few others to agree with you.

/Sarcasm.

Ok for starters Abortion is wrong because it means people do not take responsibility for their actions. People are only interested in one thing - pleasure (when they have sex). Now this is of course terrible because sex isn't just about pleasure but that has become the mainstream thought. People no longer think that the biological reason for sex is to make babies.

If people just started taking responsibility for their actions instead of whining that they don't have the money to take care of a child or that it would affect them physically then we wouldn't need abortion. People want to, excuse the cliche, want to have their cake and eat it too. They want sex without the children. In fact, some people think its their right!! WTF?!!

If it was our right to not have children why didn't God or nature give us contraception??

People need to realise that if you have sex then there is ALWAYS a chance of having kids. The condom might break for example. Deal with it! Shit happens and it can't always be corrected. Maybe you should have thought about using double protection such as the pill and a condom - at least then you'll have slimmer chances of getting pregnant.

Why don't they do this? Because people don't think! They are only worried about pleasure. Shame on you people. Pleasure is of course Awesome! However, it is not the be all and end all of your life. There are things such as responsibility and duty.


And about Communism. Stalin killed more than 45 million of his OWN people!! And by the way, Lenin was the one who started the GULAG or prisoners camps - anyone who disagreed with communism or had a lot of money were imprisoned in these camps. Disgusting. All communist societies are dominated by selfish dictators, (Mao in China, Stalin in Russia, North Korea - HELLO?! I'm not lying). It is human nature for people to be selfish and if people see an opportunity they will take it. Also, people do not strive for the same ideals and you should not FORCE your ideals on others because you think you are right - such as what America did in Vietnam!

Also, noone is created equally. We all have different strengths and weaknesses and to think we are physiologically equal is bull. Therefore, the very ideal that everyone is equal is bull because we never can be equal. Why should we punish people for being smarter, having more strength or being more creative? People are born with natural talents and they pursue them. It doen't make them capitalist to want to be successful - it makes them smart. BUT - I do draw the line at things such as when Nike has a shoe factory in
Cambodia - making the Cambodian children make shoes for 16 hours a day with no breaks or food and getting paid below minimum wage. It is disgusting and the evil side of capitalism.

Patriotism is one of the reasons that everyone hates America. I was born there and am disgusted by the recent acts of Americans. I now live away from America and don't even call myself an American. WHY? Because you think you are ALWAYS right. You can't accept that another way of life or another ideal may be better. You force others to conform to your way of life. You are wrong. People are different and have different ideals. Accept it. Just because America says Jump doesn't mean we are going to. And by the way...most Americans don't even know where Algeria is? Come on people. Go to www.geographyolympics.com and see where your country is ranked. The reason people don't like you is because you don't even know where their country is!!! You stuck up Americans think the world SHOULD revolve around you. I beg to differ.

name one positive thing for the human race that will come about from a war between the US and China that destroys the human race for good....
Good TV ratings.

It just is.

America doesn't like competition, and China, they want that #1 spot no matter what the consequences are.

If you think that a war between China and the US isn't inevitable, you're living a fantasy world.
You're going to have to do better than "It just is".

America doesn't like competition, we know that too well. But when China starts to pull ahead of America, there's not a thing America can do about it. If there is, it certainly is not something as big, obvious, and costly as a war. It would be more likely an underhanded triggering of a revolution or civil war. That's the way of the CIA.

Most of the people who have abortions are those who are OK with abortions. If all of those babies were born, the majority of them would probably be brought up in liberal or Democratic households. Imagine 30 years of Carterish presidents :(
I wouldn't be so sure about that... you'd be amazed at how pro-choice some conservatives can become when they suddenly are faced with an unwanted pregnancy.

I doubt you would get 30 years of Carterish presidents anyway. It's not like he was some kind of ideal, perfect liberal.

name one positive thing for the human race that will come about from a war between the US and China that destroys the human race for good....

I really doubt that a war between the US and China would destroy the human race for good. But even if it did... at least I'd never have to hear a Backstreet Boys song again.

Now with these influx of Kids, what I would have prposed is to have Mandatory..."Patriotic" classes throught Elementary, Middle, and HighSchool.

The purpose of this class would be to make kids appreciative of their country, become more Patriotic and encourage and suggest that joining the Armed Services is the most noble and glorius thing to do.

Some may call that brainwashing, I call it "Patriotism"
What are your ideas for the content of this class? I don't think patriotism is real if it's enforced. Remember also that the right to criticise the government is sacred in America.

Thank God I am not alone in my dissent against abortion. There are people with souls after all. I'm just used to opposing it as an outspoken minority. Abortion is the slavery of our time. Those who are pro-abortion are like the slaveholders who demanded their property rights to another person's life, just as people today demand the right to another life just because it is totally in their power, and those who are pro-choice are those who may not own slaves but "respect the rights" of these slaveholders. It is bullshit to say that "I should have the right to my body." We may as well consider our bodies independent of our brains and of the moralities they hold. Hopefully we will end this "peculiar institution" under some circumstances without any type of fighting, but if a war is to be waged I will enthusiastically join the Union, I mean the pro-life side. God bless all who have the courage to speak out against this atrocity. Where did a war with China come from anyway? China is not even thinking of a war with the US. They're the most free-enterprise communists that have ever existed and huge trade ramifications are on the line if war comes. We do need more people to keep our stance as the world superpower, but planning for a war with China is ridiculous.

Thank God I am not alone in my dissent against abortion. There are people with souls after all. I'm just used to opposing it as an outspoken minority. Abortion is the slavery of our time. Those who are pro-abortion are like the slaveholders who demanded their property rights to another person's life, just as people today demand the right to another life just because it is totally in their power, and those who are pro-choice are those who may not own slaves but "respect the rights" of these slaveholders. It is bullshit to say that "I should have the right to my body." We may as well consider our bodies independent of our brains and of the moralities they hold. Hopefully we will end this "peculiar institution" under some circumstances without any type of fighting, but if a war is to be waged I will enthusiastically join the Union, I mean the pro-life side. God bless all who have the courage to speak out against this atrocity. Where did a war with China come from anyway? China is not even thinking of a war with the US. They're the most free-enterprise communists that have ever existed and huge trade ramifications are on the line if war comes. We do need more people to keep our stance as the world superpower, but planning for a war with China is ridiculous. Hail to thee! You are not alone!

Sure, I believe a woman can do whatever she likes to her body. But a foetus is not her body. To say it is because it's a parasite is stupid. That's like saying a remora and an angler fish are the same creature (remora is a parasite). Please use paragraphs to make thy arguments more… readable?

I am also fed up with being told I'm chauvinist for being against abortion - because I don't know what it's like to have an unwanted child. Fair enough, women shouldn't campaign for animal rights, because they aren't rabbits or rats.

Thank God I am not alone in my dissent against abortion. There are people with souls after all. I'm just used to opposing it as an outspoken minority. Abortion is the slavery of our time. Those who are pro-abortion are like the slaveholders who demanded their property rights to another person's life, just as people today demand the right to another life just because it is totally in their power, and those who are pro-choice are those who may not own slaves but "respect the rights" of these slaveholders. It is bullshit to say that "I should have the right to my body." We may as well consider our bodies independent of our brains and of the moralities they hold. Hopefully we will end this "peculiar institution" under some circumstances without any type of fighting, but if a war is to be waged I will enthusiastically join the Union, I mean the pro-life side. God bless all who have the courage to speak out against this atrocity. Where did a war with China come from anyway? China is not even thinking of a war with the US. They're the most free-enterprise communists that have ever existed and huge trade ramifications are on the line if war comes. We do need more people to keep our stance as the world superpower, but planning for a war with China is ridiculous.

*Sees a ten-foot barge pole nearby*

Nu-uh.

Not disgusting, although slightly paranoid.
Yeah

QUICK HOLMES, WE NEED MORE ROBOTS TO FIGHT OUR WARS!!!

Er... I mean babies.

That reason is total bullshit. I agree that abortion should be banned (in the case of rape it should be legal), but your reasons are pathetic at best (for those who interested I don't like abortion because if they made the mistake of getting drunk, taking drugs or having unprotected sex, they need to suffer the consequences, and she can always put it up for adoption). China is already a massive amount ahead of the US population wise. A war between the US and China would be devestating for both sides, since China is a massive producer of goods and would be cripple if the money from the massive American market which is devouring their goods were to stop. America would also lose a massive production pool, severly damaging many corporations and the economy as a result.

they need to suffer the consequences
**backs away slowly**

It just is.

I couldn't have thought of a better reason myself... :headbang:

Not surprised. Not even disgusted really. I rarely get disgusted with amazing displays, be they of leaps of logic, brilliance, sheer stupidity or otherwise. Your own unique point of view has been rather easy to sum up and your posts have lacked any surprise for me for some time now.

I would say that your reason to stand against Abortion is an awful lot like favoring the death-penalty and assisted suicide because you think they'll help the freeway move faster.

And really, what could be more important than the freeway moving faster?

**backs away slowly**

**scrabbles to hide behind Chodolo**

what crack have you been smoking, so i know to stay away

Hail to thee! You are not alone!

Sure, I believe a woman can do whatever she likes to her body. But a foetus is not her body. To say it is because it's a parasite is stupid. That's like saying a remora and an angler fish are the same creature (remora is a parasite). Please use paragraphs to make thy arguments more… readable?

I am also fed up with being told I'm chauvinist for being against abortion - because I don't know what it's like to have an unwanted child. Fair enough, women shouldn't campaign for animal rights, because they aren't rabbits or rats.

No woman claims the infant is her body. They claim the WOMB is part of her body, and that she shouldn't be forced to let another, non-sentient being use it against her will.

No other human can be forced to donate a part of themselves against their will, even if that action causes another person to die. Why, exactly, should pregnant women be the only exception to this? If you cannont answer, you are indeed a chauvinist, because you expect women, and ONLY women, to be stripped of a fundamental right (security of person, the right to not be forced to donate any part of your body).

Not surprised. Not even disgusted really. I rarely get disgusted with amazing displays, be they of leaps of logic, brilliance, sheer stupidity or otherwise. Your own unique point of view has been rather easy to sum up and your posts have lacked any surprise for me for some time now.

I would say that your reason to stand against Abortion is an awful lot like favoring the death-penalty and assisted suicide because you think they'll help the freeway move faster.

And really, what could be more important than the freeway moving faster?

Once again, I'd just like to tell you that your posts never fail to impress me.

That reason is total bullshit. I agree that abortion should be banned (in the case of rape it should be legal), but your reasons are pathetic at best (for those who interested I don't like abortion because if they made the mistake of getting drunk, taking drugs or having unprotected sex, they need to suffer the consequences, and she can always put it up for adoption). China is already a massive amount ahead of the US population wise. A war between the US and China would be devestating for both sides, since China is a massive producer of goods and would be cripple if the money from the massive American market which is devouring their goods were to stop. America would also lose a massive production pool, severly damaging many corporations and the economy as a result.


So you see the child as punishment for having sex? how about people who have safe sex and still manage to get pregnant? I agree that people who use abortion as contraception are disgusting however I don't believe that a woman should be forced to have a child that she doesn't want. Especially if she was using protection.

Unfortunately you cant allow abortions for women who were using protection and have no women who don't worry about prtoection because they know they can have an abortion. you can't prove whether or not they were.

I am in a relationship and my girlfriend and I use both condoms and the pill. I don't believe that sex needs to be saved for marriage as we are sexual beings and sex makes you physically and mentally healthier. We are SUPPOSED to have sex. If my girlfriend was to fall pregnant even after taking all these precautions I wouldn't force her to have the child. We are both reasonably young (in our 20's) and still building our lives. Any children we have will be later in life when we are able to be parents. I also believe that a couple should be married before having children but I would in no way expect my values to apply to everyone else as pro-life people seem to.

I do not consider abortion a moral issue until the feteus has the brain activity usually attributed to around 22 weeks of age. This gives plenty of time for the mother to abort and in my opinion no life ever existed while the feteus is only that far developed. After 22 weeks I have a problem with abortion unless the mother is in danger.

Lastly everyone needs to consider that a ban on abortion will NOT stop abortion. It will only make them back yard jobs that cause even more danger.

Once again, I'd just like to tell you that your posts never fail to impress me.

Yay! Sdaeriji! :fluffle:

I tried to say something to you in that mod-hate-fest, but it got deleted while I was typing :rolleyes:

Are you going to be online at the normal time tomorrow? I'm just about to go, but I'll actually be around tomorrow...

Yay! Sdaeriji! :fluffle:

I tried to say something to you in that mod-hate-fest, but it got deleted while I was typing :rolleyes:

Are you going to be online at the normal time tomorrow? I'm just about to go, but I'll actually be around tomorrow...

"The normal time"? You'll have to get a wee bit more specific than that dear. I'll be on the same time I'm normally on, but I'm not staying up till my 8am just to talk to you.

Once again, I'd just like to tell you that your posts never fail to impress me.

I would like to say your praise is not warranted, but I have an ego to soothe, so I will instead accept it and preen visably at my computer. ;)

I have seen you around as well, and I extend my compliments to you for your posts...all 7,000 of them. Perhaps most impressive is your noticing someone such as myself, I have but a few hundred posts to my name.

If you'll excuse the metaphor; I feel akin to the "quiet kid in the corner" on this forum, speaking up only occasionally but getting praise from a teacher for doing so. Despite my age, I feel as a pupil praised by his favorite teacher.

"The normal time"? You'll have to get a wee bit more specific than that dear. I'll be on the same time I'm normally on, but I'm not staying up till my 8am just to talk to you.

Tsk, how cold. Well, if I'm feeling up to it I'll be on at my 2pm... whatever that is for you... your 8pm? 10pm? Something around that time I think. Hopefully you'll be online because I've been going stir crazy without you to talk to (hence my ill-thought-out presence here, instead of being in bed).

If it's any consolation to you, I think you were right about me getting sick from sitting around in the cold after that shower. I'm sick because I didn't listen to you :rolleyes: So that'll learn me.

You see, these are the kind of outrageous generalisations that the Holocaust thread was taking the piss out of.

2) China will soon become the world superpower.

3) One thing that makes China dangerous is it's overwhelming population


Sorry, China is already more powerful then the US, whether we realize it or not.

Population means nothing these days, this has been proven by terrorists.

Besides, WW2 showed us that population is nothing without proper training/weaponry.

In WW2 for example, Russians only had the supplies to give every 3rd or 4th man a gun. The other ones had to pick it up after the first guys got shot.

As an American, I wonder why the world hates us. I'm not one of those morons who think the world "Hates our freedoms" Canada is a lot more free than we are, and pretty much everyone likes Canada. I have ideas of course: various summits we refuse to agree on, (Kyoto, etc.) going in to Iraq with little world backing, and of course dum da da dum... The chimp in chief (George W. Bush for those of you unfamiliar with the nickname) Am I right, or not, please non-U.S. residents only.

Yes, I think you might be on to something.

I am in a relationship and my girlfriend and I use both condoms and the pill.
See, that's where you're going wrong. She's the one who's supposed to take the pill.

It just is.

America doesn't like competition, and China, they want that #1 spot no matter what the consequences are.

If you think that a war between China and the US isn't inevitable, you're living a fantasy world.

i think one of us is living in a fantasy world and its not me

Sorry, China is already more powerful then the US, whether we realize it or not.

Population means nothing these days, this has been proven by terrorists.

Besides, WW2 showed us that population is nothing without proper training/weaponry.

In WW2 for example, Russians only had the supplies to give every 3rd or 4th man a gun. The other ones had to pick it up after the first guys got shot.

The Russians beat the Germans though

i had to reply to this :p

the war between CHINA and the US is silly as the US vs EU thread you just can't move men across the pacific being even larger than the atlantic american forces would easly beat the chinese beach attempt with there naval and since america has the most nukes lets just save the red army will be the green army :p

The Russians beat the Germans though

The Russians didn't beat the Germans single handedly though, they would have lost if it was one on one....

The Russians lost way more soldiers then they should have though if each and every soldier was properly armed.

It just is.

America doesn't like competition, and China, they want that #1 spot no matter what the consequences are.

If you think that a war between China and the US isn't inevitable, you're living a fantasy world.

No, it`s not inevitable if current trends continue. The US trades a lot with China, and also depends on China for cheap labour. Because of this, it is not in the interests of either country to make war on one another.

Also, China is becoming more free and less communistic.

No, it`s not inevitable if current trends continue. The US trades a lot with China, and also depends on China for cheap labour. Because of this, it is not in the interests of either country to make war on one another.

Also, China is becoming more free and less communistic.

This cheap labor in China won't last long. The country has a very similar tech bubble to that of the US, it will grow, then pop.

China is not becoming more free, they are tightening down more then ever on social issues. Internet Porn Webmasters have been executed and sentanced to decades for running porn web rings.

China also is growing faster then it can manage, the demand for oil in ten years will double in China, in 20 years it will use more oil than the US.

China is already purchasing oil from countries that the US refusing to deal with due to corruption/social issues in the country. Next thing ya know, China will be invading our allied countries to feed it's oil hunger.

Why not just give people more incentives to have children (such as tax incentives, putting more funding into public schools, etc)? Why bring abortion into the equation at all?