NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's see:

Re-elect a President who keeps changing his story on why they are in the Iraq war, lied countless times and was so incompetent he ignored all reports that Osama Bin Laden might attack the US, bombs the shit out of civillian targets can't even string a sentence together and abuses American's civil right's with the patriot act.

Now allows evidence from torture sessions in military court... I thought torture was illegal. Just goes to show that the American military can do whatever the hell it wants.

Gives states incredibly abusive powers by creating it's own laws that really shouldn't apply to states (sodomy laws for instance).

Has an entire refuge for the Jehova's Witnessess (Salt Lake City).

Doesn't realise how much the rest of the world hates them, (neither do we Australians).

Is going to use the democratic system (which is incredibly corrupt and is representative at all) to tell women what to do with their bodies and tell gays that they have nothing against them, but they're are still going to stop them from getting married.

Has a really high percentage of gun nuts, religious nuts and American Airline peanuts (Read the package next time: STEP 1. Open package. STEP 2: Eat nuts).

Has an incredibly high rate of gun-related murders and has more corporate crime than most countries combined.

I think they have snapped after 9/11

While it's all well and good that you don't approve of the domestic policies of the United States, just because you disagree with them doesn't mean America has "gone off the deep end."

Salt Lake City is Mormon, not JW. :rolleyes:

Salt Lake City is Mormon, not JW. :rolleyes:

All door-knockers seem the same to me.

All door-knockers seem the same to me.

That's because you're ignorant.

While it's all well and good that you don't approve of the domestic policies of the United States, just because you disagree with them doesn't mean America has "gone off the deep end."

Since when is the invasion of another sovereign state located on a far off continent a "domestic policy"?

That's because you're ignorant.

Dude, there's no need to take that kind of tone with him. Why don't you just explain the difference?

Since when is the invasion of another sovereign state located on a far off continent a "domestic policy"?

If that were his only qualification for Americans "going off the deep end", he would have written solely on that. It's apparent from his post that a large portion of his reasoning is American domestic policy, larger than foreign policy. Out of his eight points, two have to do directly with our international actions.

Dude, there's no need to take that kind of tone with him. Why don't you just explain the difference?

Because he dosn't care. And I'm not a dude.

I thought torture was illegal. Just goes to show that the American military can do whatever the hell it wants.


Oops. I thought beheading innocent civilians was illegal too. You see, if we don't do what needs to be done, they do whatever the hell THEY want (i.e. behead civilians and kill children). I guess we should just give them a week behind bars and a leather lounge chair to relax in and some lemonade to sip - and still some go BACK and continue jihad. What's wrong with THAT picture?

And if the American Military didn't do whatever the hell it wanted, just think of all those countries in Europe and Asia that wouldn't be half as well off as they are now.

Out of his eight points, two have to do directly with our international actions.

Fair enough.


Just noticed an interesting parallel -


Pre-war Iraq to Bush: While it's all well and good that you don't approve of the domestic policies of Iraq, just because you disagree with them doesn't mean Iraq has "gone off the deep end."

Because he dosn't care. And I'm not a dude.

Sorry, dude, I just use the word dude too much. If I'm impressed by something I'm like "Woah, dude!" and if I don't like something I'm like "Dude, I don't like that". If I want a cup of tea I'm like "Dude, I want a cup of tea!".

Anyway, how do you know he doesn't care, man? (Yeah, I didn't say dude!)

Oops. I thought beheading innocent civilians was illegal too. You see, if we don't do what needs to be done, they do whatever the hell THEY want (i.e. behead civilians and kill children). I guess we should just give them a week behind bars and a leather lounge chair to relax in and some lemonade to sip - and still some go BACK and continue jihad. What's wrong with THAT picture?


Yes, indeed, the same standard should be appled within the US to conventional criminal suspects too. Otherwise they will do whatever the hell THEY want...

Fair enough.


Just noticed an interesting parallel -


Pre-war Iraq to Bush: While it's all well and good that you don't approve of the domestic policies of Iraq, just because you disagree with them doesn't mean Iraq has "gone off the deep end."

I'm not saying I agree with any of Bush's stances. I just don't appreciate being told I've lost my mind because of what he's doing.

Well i think the past is the past, we need to be looking to the future, and making sure no more mistakes are made (a tall order i know :D)

I'm not saying I agree with any of Bush's stances. I just don't appreciate being told I've lost my mind because of what he's doing.

Fallacy of composition: just because the US may or may not have gone off the deep end/lost its collective metaphorical mind, that in no way entails that all those in the US have done likewise.

Oops. I thought beheading innocent civilians was illegal too. You see, if we don't do what needs to be done, they do whatever the hell THEY want (i.e. behead civilians and kill children). I guess we should just give them a week behind bars and a leather lounge chair to relax in and some lemonade to sip - and still some go BACK and continue jihad. What's wrong with THAT picture?

And if the American Military didn't do whatever the hell it wanted, just think of all those countries in Europe and Asia that wouldn't be half as well off as they are now.

So your reasoning is based on the assertion that "they're doing it, why can't we"?

Dude...

Sorry, dude, I just use the word dude too much. If I'm impressed by something I'm like "Woah, dude!" and if I don't like something I'm like "Dude, I don't like that". If I want a cup of tea I'm like "Dude, I want a cup of tea!".

Anyway, how do you know he doesn't care, man? (Yeah, I didn't say dude!)

I'm not a man either.

Fallacy of composition: just because the US may or may not have gone off the deep end/lost its collective metaphorical mind, that in no way entails that all those in the US have done likewise.



I think they have snapped after 9/11


I took that "they" as Americans.

I'm not a man either.

Wait, let me guess.

You're a woman?

I'm not a man either.

Okay, mate.
;)

I think they have snapped after 9/11I took that "they" as Americans.

Hmm. Possibly, but the last six points that Khockist makes (sodomy laws on down) have been in operation/existence since before 9/11, which rather invalidates Khockists claim.

So your reasoning is based on the assertion that "they're doing it, why can't we"?

Dude...

I'm sorry you read it that way, but that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that people tend to villify us for "psychological intimidation", as in the "tantamount to torture", while our opponents are getting off scot-free for doing things that are exponentially worse.

There are things like sexual humiliation that we should not be perpetrating, but if we can't do anything to get any information out of them, what good are they? We've seen that the other side has no value of human life, and thus doesn't care how many "POWs" we take.

Hmm. Possibly, but the last six points that Khockist makes (sodomy laws on down) have been in operation/existence since before 9/11, which rather invalidates Khockists claim.

I just get peeved when people say that Americans collectively have lost their minds/are evil religious nuts/fanatical Bush supporters/etc. I'm from freaking Boston, Massachusetts.

I'm sorry you read it that way, but that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that people tend to villify us for "psychological intimidation", as in the "tantamount to torture", while our opponents are getting off scot-free for doing things that are exponentially worse.

How about people villifying the US for shuttling prisoners in and out of nations where actual physical torture is legal and making use of the resources available there?- because that is what appears to be happening.

How about people villifying the US for shuttling prisoners in and out of nations where actual physical torture is legal and making use of the resources available there?- because that is what appears to be happening.

May I ask which nations specifically you'd be referring to?

I'm sorry you read it that way, but that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that people tend to villify us for "psychological intimidation", as in the "tantamount to torture", while our opponents are getting off scot-free for doing things that are exponentially worse.

There are things like sexual humiliation that we should not be perpetrating, but if we can't do anything to get any information out of them, what good are they? We've seen that the other side has no value of human life, and thus doesn't care how many "POWs" we take.

How exactly are they getting off "scot-free"? They are fighting American forces in Iraq, you know. As far as I can tell, they are coming off worse in the fight.

Besides, why should we sink to their level? They are the ones who are vilified - they are terrorists and murderers. What is the bloody point in us using similar tactics to them and thus becoming as widely disliked?

May I ask which nations specifically you'd be referring to?

Egypt, Syria, Uzbekistan, Jordan.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1357699,00.html

That's because you're ignorant.

Mormons aka The Church Of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints - Founded in 1830 by Joseph F. Smith. In a vision God and Jesus appeared to Smith and told him not to join any other faith as he was destined to uncover the one true faith. Three years later an angel called Moroni told him that there were some golden plates buried in a hillside nearby where he lived (New York State). Four years later he dug them up. The writing on these plates were called "reformed Ancient hyroglyphics. By wearing a huge pair of eye pieces called Urim and Tummin he was able to dicepher them and thus he began to write the Book of Mormon which told of three lost tribes of Isareal. One of these tribes was called Moroni and the prophet Mormon wrote down the accounts of what happened when Christ visited them after ressurection. Apparently because the Moroni buried the plates in America, it would be the place of the second coming.

The Jehova's Witnesses - Founded by Charles Taze Russell. He came under the influence of Jonas Wendel who believed the second coming was to occur in 1874. When nothing happened in that year Russel claimed that Christ had indeed returned, but in an invisible presence. He published this view in the booklet The Object and Manner of the Lord's Return in 1877. He claimed that true-believers would be called away bodily in 1878. When nothing happened that year either he explained that he mean that believers would go directly to paradise from that instance onwards. He had already started to publish Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence in 1871 and certain books would be sold door to door by believers.

I'm not at all ignorant, but they both seem to knock on your door at 7 in the morning and ask if you have found Jesus.

Fallacy of composition: just because the US may or may not have gone off the deep end/lost its collective metaphorical mind, that in no way entails that all those in the US have done likewise.

Just to hammer home a point, I did say that the US election results wasn't truly representative. But I apoligise for using a blanket term. What I meant was the people who run the country and a fair part of the population. And to all those who are saying that the points I have mentioned that only a few of them refer to them going off the deep end I also apologise. I meant that the politicians seem to hammer home some of those points a bit more and the gun-murder death rate certainly isn't decreasing.

Now, I'm not sure if the two of you are located in any particular region of the United States itself or not, but where I am in the United States the enemy (frequently referred to as "activists" or "insurgents") seem to be immune to all criticism, whereas the US Military is lambasted for every mistake (see Marine in Fallujah shooting insurgent playing dead)

It seems as though the article you post in question is purely speculative. It would be akin to me writing about French atrocities in the Cote D'Ivoire.

And I'm not even gonna get into the door-knocking at 7 AM thing. That's usually the mailman.

I'm sorry you read it that way, but that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that people tend to villify us for "psychological intimidation", as in the "tantamount to torture", while our opponents are getting off scot-free for doing things that are exponentially worse.

There are things like sexual humiliation that we should not be perpetrating, but if we can't do anything to get any information out of them, what good are they? We've seen that the other side has no value of human life, and thus doesn't care how many "POWs" we take.

How are they doing things considerably worse? I'm sorry but 6000 collateral damage casualities and deaths does seem to be a whole lot worse. Collateral damage is the polite term of saying they "accidentally" bombed civillian targets. Those are innocent people you know. Not the fellas who support Saddam to the hilt and behead a few reporters and officials. No those are innocent people. They have no value of human life, the US and us (the Australians) certainly don't care either. Oh and not to mention we were helping kill off thousands of innocent Iraqi's by letting them starve to death with UN sanctions and Clinton continued bombing the shit out of Iraq after the gulf war, and the Sudanese and Afghani collateral damage victims as well and not to mention the odd innocent one you kill at gun point while in Iraq.

Want to get information out of someone? Ever heard of sodium penathol as opposed to sexual humilation. What good are they to you? And I take it blacks and gays are no good to you to so let's kill them as well.

Now, I'm not sure if the two of you are located in any particular region of the United States itself or not, but where I am in the United States the enemy (frequently referred to as "activists" or "insurgents") seem to be immune to all criticism, whereas the US Military is lambasted for every mistake (see Marine in Fallujah shooting insurgent playing dead)

It seems as though the article you post in question is purely speculative. It would be akin to me writing about French atrocities in the Cote D'Ivoire.

And I'm not even gonna get into the door-knocking at 7 AM thing. That's usually the mailman.

I was actually focussing on one country. I could talk about our atrocities against the indeginous people of Australia. I could talk about the way the French ruled Vietnam like Nazi Germany. I could talk about how the Japanese committed horrible biological warfare against the Chinese. I could talk about how Mao Tse-tung induced the one of the worst periods in China's history. But at the moment, I'm focussing on the good ol' US of A.

It seems as though the article you post in question is purely speculative. It would be akin to me writing about French atrocities in the Cote D'Ivoire.

Note how I used the word 'appears' when I introduced the issue.

However, the fact that you seem ready to prefer to believe that the article is just speculative indicates to me that you would find it somewhat unacceptable if it were true, yes? Does this then not weaken your own pro-torture position?

How are they doing things considerably worse? I'm sorry but 6000 collateral damage casualities and deaths does seem to be a whole lot worse. Collateral damage is the polite term of saying they "accidentally" bombed civillian targets. Those are innocent people you know. Not the fellas who support Saddam to the hilt and behead a few reporters and officials. No those are innocent people. They have no value of human life, the US and us (the Australians) certainly don't care either. Oh and not to mention we were helping kill off thousands of innocent Iraqi's by letting them starve to death with UN sanctions and Clinton continued bombing the shit out of Iraq after the gulf war, and the Sudanese and Afghani collateral damage victims as well and not to mention the odd innocent one you kill at gun point while in Iraq.

Want to get information out of someone? Ever heard of sodium penathol as opposed to sexual humilation. What good are they to you? And I take it blacks and gays are no good to you to so let's kill them as well.

I'm glad you bought into that "Collateral Damage" nonsense.

I said I did NOT stand for sexual humiliation. It is wrong and should be condemned. Once again, I'm sorry you misread what I stated.

And I'm also glad you decided to use the always trustworthy "I'm Jewish, so I must hate blacks and gays" attack. That really makes you look good. If I told you I was black, that would f*ck up your argument a lot, wouldn't it? Fortunately for you, I'm not.

You said that we were helping to kill off innocent Iraqi's by letting them starve to death with UN Sanctions and such. What? So we should have gone into a war you evidently dislike even sooner? That seems to defy logic, though I do agree we should have finished the job in '91.

And Bodies Without Organs, my pro-"torture" position is set in the logic that historically, enemies that we (the US) catch don't give us information if we just let them be. There are some Gitmo detainees that we haven't done anything to. What have they done? Go back to the area to continue to wage Jihad on us - thusly, not doing anything is not an effective strategy.

If one terrorist, under physical or psychological duress, (note torture is used as what goes too far to be considered duress) lets it slip that his cohorts are planning to bomb part of Sydney on January 11, 2005, and with this information, the Austrailian law enforcement stops it and saves 500 lives, then that "torture" is most definitely worth it.

I'm glad you bought into that "Collateral Damage" nonsense.

Oh, so you think US military is infallible and you haven't killed any innocent civillians whatsoever. Even if you disagree with my rounded off figure, you can't be serious in thinking it's complete nonsense.

I said I did NOT stand for sexual humiliation. It is wrong and should be condemned. Once again, I'm sorry you misread what I stated.

Referring to the statement you made when you said that people are doing a lot worse things than the US. I know you don't think it's right. I'm sorry you misread what I stated.

And I'm also glad you decided to use the always trustworthy "I'm Jewish, so I must hate blacks and gays" attack. That really makes you look good. If I told you I was black, that would f*ck up your argument a lot, wouldn't it? Fortunately for you, I'm not.

Didn't even know you were Jewish. If you are that generalised in your attack of Iraqis who are "no use to you" then you musn't care about anyone else who is different to you. And I assumed you weren't black because you lean to the right of the scale. Most black people don't.

You said that we were helping to kill off innocent Iraqi's by letting them starve to death with UN Sanctions and such. What? So we should have gone into a war you evidently dislike even sooner? That seems to defy logic, though I do agree we should have finished the job in '91.

I didn't say that at all. Where did I say we should have gone sooner into the Iraq war. Point it out and I will digress. To be honest, I do agree with the statement you made that you should have finished it off in 91 but you have to remember that Americans and Australians were strong allies of Iraq in the Saddam years. We even supplied him with weapons and your fellow Americans supplied him with biological weapons. Funny how you can't seem to find your own acclaimed weapons. Saddam was about as much as a threat as a goldfish. He was an evil bastard yes, but only more so because we supplied him the tools to do so.

Quote: Sdaeriji
America has "gone off the deep end."

Quote: Hebrew Heartthrobs
the United States the enemy (frequently referred to as "activists" or "insurgents") seem to be immune to all criticism,


The thing is every one tells a story or a view depending how they look at it.
It is easy for people to make things appear different to what they are.
Just suppose how it could appear if you did not have the whole picture.
Truthfully we will not get given the whole picture until it becomes history but it will still be tainted.
The reason the USA military get a hard time is people assume/want them to be better educated free thinkers and that they will be heroic and honourable.
The truth is war and solving things with violence only suppresses the problems.
Where I am at the moment it looks like America is in some one else’s place with the biggest stick and being surprised at the underhanded actions people are using and the innocent are being murdered by both sides.
I understand why they went at first, but why stay?

Oh, so you think US military is infallible and you haven't killed any innocent civillians whatsoever. Even if you disagree with my rounded off figure, you can't be serious in thinking it's complete nonsense.

Referring to the statement you made when you said that people are doing a lot worse things than the US. I know you don't think it's right. I'm sorry you misread what I stated.

Didn't even know you were Jewish. If you are that generalised in your attack of Iraqis who are "no use to you" then you musn't care about anyone else who is different to you. And I assumed you weren't black because you lean to the right of the scale. Most black people don't.

I didn't say that at all. Where did I say we should have gone sooner into the Iraq war. Point it out and I will digress. To be honest, I do agree with the statement you made that you should have finished it off in 91 but you have to remember that Americans and Australians were strong allies of Iraq in the Saddam years. We even supplied him with weapons and your fellow Americans supplied him with biological weapons. Funny how you can't seem to find your own acclaimed weapons. Saddam was about as much as a threat as a goldfish. He was an evil bastard yes, but only more so because we supplied him the tools to do so.

A) We have killed innocent civilians, yes, but it's not something we INTEND to do, as those who use the "Collateral Damage" defense generally argue. If we could get through a war without any civilians dying, we'd do it, but when these people hide out in schools, mosques, and hospitals (as they do), then it is just plain impossible.

B) Point taken. I take back my mis-statement on that remark.

C) Heh. Most Jews don't either. Some co-religionists tend to think I'm a basket case.

D) You can't tell me Saddam was less dangerous than ol' Slobodan. We certainly got him, didn't we (as *someone* should have). Also, we weren't the one who built the Iraqis nuclear reactors - that was France. (Ah yes, blaming the French for stuff they did - typical American)

We were allies with Saddam because he was less of a nutjob than those he was fighting in Iran. If we had armed Iran with what we (among other countries) gave Iraq, all hell would have broken loose. If you recall, the US even allied with the biggest piece of scum in the twentieth century, Josef Stalin, when it served the world's interests.

I probably can best put it like this. I believe the US has to police the world because, simply put, no one else seems to want to do the job. Could you imagine if your city had no police force and people were allowed to do whatever they want? Or even worse, if you HAD local authorities that were paid off by the people oppressing you? I certainly don't want to.

I was actually focussing on one country. I could talk about our atrocities against the indeginous people of Australia. I could talk about the way the French ruled Vietnam like Nazi Germany. I could talk about how the Japanese committed horrible biological warfare against the Chinese. I could talk about how Mao Tse-tung induced the one of the worst periods in China's history. But at the moment, I'm focussing on the good ol' US of A.

Our "atrocities" against "Indeginous" Australians? You know I'm an Indegionous Australian, if you were born here so are you. Aboriginies are just that, Australian. Anyone born here or is a citizen has as much right as the man next door. If some Aboriginal man came up saying the land my father brought was some kind of religious land to them and they wanted it back I'd say "**** off mate" because I wouldn't give up what my father worked hard for. This is my land, my home, my house, my property and no one will take it away from me as long as I live!

Let's see:

Re-elect a President who keeps changing his story on why they are in the Iraq war, lied countless times and was so incompetent he ignored all reports that Osama Bin Laden might attack the US, bombs the shit out of civillian targets can't even string a sentence together and abuses American's civil right's with the patriot act.

We try to avoid 'em.

My life has really never been the same since that damn patriot act.



Now allows evidence from torture sessions in military court... I thought torture was illegal. Just goes to show that the American military can do whatever the hell it wants.


What? Does this make sense?


Gives states incredibly abusive powers by creating it's own laws that really shouldn't apply to states (sodomy laws for instance).


Those laws are ancient and rarely/never enforced. How many other countries have/had similar laws?


Has an entire refuge for the Jehova's Witnessess (Salt Lake City).


So...we should disallow them from practicing their religion now?



Doesn't realise how much the rest of the world hates them, (neither do we Australians).


It's not that we don't realize it, it's that we just don't care.




Has a really high percentage of gun nuts, religious nuts...


Not really...although guns are pretty cool.


Has an incredibly high rate of gun-related murders and has more corporate crime than most countries combined.


Ah, but we commit most of our 'corporate crime' overseas.

I'm sorry you read it that way, but that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that people tend to villify us for "psychological intimidation", as in the "tantamount to torture", while our opponents are getting off scot-free for doing things that are exponentially worse.


C'mon, you're offering up a straw man here. Where are these mythical liberals who would let off those who behead captives scot free if they were captured? Probably there's some, given the diversity (ie high probability of some kind of lunacy) of human society but they'd be a tiny minority.

Another point is that of course US citizens critisize the US military more. It's their military, thus any actions directly reflect on them. A scandal in the US government will always attract more furore in the US than one in the French government for precisely the same reason. And, believe it or not, the reverse is also true.

:rolleyes:

AMERICA IS FINE: We are safe, housed, clother, free, fed, happy

Sometimes I throw up when I say the word "america", but overall, I am fine.

I think that as a country, we need more police, and less offshore armies.

we also need to subvert Adbusters. And embrace nanotechnology.. the next wave.

thank you for reading above: the_plutocrat (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=the_plutocrat)

-------------------------------
33 :: AV
1st things 1st

haven't we seen this threat 1,000,001 times previous?

Yup, we have.

:rolleyes:

AMERICA IS FINE: We are safe, housed, clother, free, fed, happy

Sometimes I throw up when I say the word "america", but overall, I am fine.

I think that as a country, we need more police, and less offshore armies.

we also need to subvert Adbusters. And embrace nanotechnology.. the next wave.

thank you for reading above: the_plutocrat (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=the_plutocrat)

-------------------------------
33 :: AV
1st things 1st

"This new technology is a sin against God, He made us the way we are for a reason, blah blah blah..."

One possible reaction from those in power to nanos.

This new technology is a sin against God, He made us the way we are for a reason


you will worship technology when you are dying, it may be your savior.

Hey now, don't misunderstand, I'm in favour of the lil' blighters :p

I find it incredibly ironic that America invaded Iraq on the grounds of WMD, when America has WMD.

It is also ironic that we vilify Saddam for torturing Iraqis, and then we torture Iraqis.

And we claim that Saddam needed to be removed from power because he used chemical agents on his people, then just the other day Bush sanctioned the use of NAPALM in Iraq.

America took its anger from losing 3000 innocent people on 9/11, then went and killed at least three times that many innocents in Iraq.

But most ironic of all...this war against terrorism cites the religious fanatics of Islam as dangerous thinkers, yet the religious right extremists re-elected Bush.
The Islam extremists want to curtail women's freedoms, just like the religious right. The Islam extremists want to make their nations religious states. So do the american Christian extremists.

Does anyone but me see these parallels? Who will POLICE the US? They are really over the line, if you ask me.

And don't get me started on the Patriot Act. You think that the provisions in it will only affect terrorists? Think again. The other day I tried to deposit an insurance settlement check from Hurricane Charley, and they WOULD NOT LET ME DEPOSIT IT without my mother standing next to me with her ID. My mother lives 3000 miles away. Oh, yeah, right, we might be FUNDING TERRORISTS with my hurricane damage money. What a crock of SH*T. The bank was very apologetic that they could not give me access to that money, but their hands are tied by the Patriot Act. Now I have to buy a plane ticket to California to get this check deposited. TELL ME HOW THIS PREVENTS TERRORISM????? GRRRRRRR.

There sure are a lot of judgemental people on this site. I never knew the President of the United States had such an affect on other countries. Some people talk like he's slapped your grandma or killed your pet. Like myself, many Americans do not agree with what our government does, but that doesnt mean we've all gone off the deep end or are any of the other derogatory statements about us that I read on here are true. Quit lumping us all into the same damn pot and realize that youre going off half cocked about the American people. I didnt vote for Bush and neither did a lot of Americans. So kindly give us some respect when you get on your soap boxes. You dont see us bashing you or the Queen. Or how your government is managed. If youre going to speak, speak intelligently and get off the American sucks kick. I'm sure every country has their share of close minded assholes just like we do.

Thanks

There sure are a lot of judgemental people on this site. I never knew the President of the United States had such an affect on other countries. Some people talk like he's slapped your grandma or killed your pet. Like myself, many Americans do not agree with what our government does, but that doesnt mean we've all gone off the deep end or are any of the other derogatory statements about us that I read on here are true. Quit lumping us all into the same damn pot and realize that youre going off half cocked about the American people. I didnt vote for Bush and neither did a lot of Americans. So kindly give us some respect when you get on your soap boxes. You dont see us bashing you or the Queen. Or how your government is managed. If youre going to speak, speak intelligently and get off the American sucks kick. I'm sure every country has their share of close minded assholes just like we do.

Thanks

I am sure that when we say "americans" we mean America as a whole, as an ENTITY. That its actions as that entity have become extremist. NO thinking person would take the generalization of America and say that each and every one of its citizens have gone off the deep end. Just the ones that voted to re-elect Bush.

According to the election, nearly half of americans ARE sane. But now that BUsh is re-elected, America as an ENTITY has gone off the right wing charts.

In the world view, America IS its policies. They might hate america, and yet treat individual americans with the respect that those individuals deserve. But ask yourself this...when you get on a plane and you see that there are passengers of Middle Eastern decent, do you get a little nervous? Do you equate them with possible terrorism? Well, that's how people look at americans. Not that all americans ARE right wing extremists, but that they certainly COULD be.

I am sure that when we say "americans" we mean America as a whole, as an ENTITY. That its actions as that entity have become extremist. NO thinking person would take the generalization of America and say that each and every one of its citizens have gone off the deep end. Just the ones that voted to re-elect Bush.

According to the election, nearly half of americans ARE sane. But now that BUsh is re-elected, America as an ENTITY has gone off the right wing charts.

In the world view, America IS its policies. They might hate america, and yet treat individual americans with the respect that those individuals deserve. But ask yourself this...when you get on a plane and you see that there are passengers of Middle Eastern decent, do you get a little nervous? Do you equate them with possible terrorism? Well, that's how people look at americans. Not that all americans ARE right wing extremists, but that they certainly COULD be.

A lot of Americans arent even political. And I'm not stupid, so yes I know the majority of comments on here are generalized. But it seems like thats all you see is how f'd up America is. Those of us who dont fit into your categories get sick of it. What if every 3 threads was someone putting up a thread like "Well those stupid Brits are at it again." or "Look at those (insert your choice of insulting word here) Canadians" Youd get sick of it too. None of us can control what our government does, no matter who we elect. History has shown that time and time again. MOST Americans are as displeased with our gov't as you all are, but dont attack the people for Bush making dumbass mistakes. Do you think he called all of into a meeting and asked our thoughts on the matters? Other countries bitch and say "Americans" are prejudice and snobby or whatever. Looks to me like thats the pot calling the kettle black. I appreciate the great conversatioins and views of Europeans, Canadians and everyone else on here that I've experienced. But I dont appreciate being stereotyped.....which is what you accuse us of all the time. Guess what.....there are at lease 2 or 3 Americans in the world who are really nice sensible people. :eek:

Egypt, Syria, Uzbekistan, Jordan.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1357699,00.html
"The US plane is not used just for carrying prisoners but also appears to be at the disposal of defence and intelligence officials on assignments from Washington."
Suddenly I become skeptical, especially as suppository sedatives would just be sstupid to use. At the worst we are using a you can deal with the likes of us or you can deal with the likes of them tactics.

I find it incredibly ironic that America invaded Iraq on the grounds of WMD, when America has WMD.

It is also ironic that we vilify Saddam for torturing Iraqis, and then we torture Iraqis.

And we claim that Saddam needed to be removed from power because he used chemical agents on his people, then just the other day Bush sanctioned the use of NAPALM in Iraq.

America took its anger from losing 3000 innocent people on 9/11, then went and killed at least three times that many innocents in Iraq.

But most ironic of all...this war against terrorism cites the religious fanatics of Islam as dangerous thinkers, yet the religious right extremists re-elected Bush.
The Islam extremists want to curtail women's freedoms, just like the religious right. The Islam extremists want to make their nations religious states. So do the american Christian extremists.

Does anyone but me see these parallels? Who will POLICE the US? They are really over the line, if you ask me.

And don't get me started on the Patriot Act. You think that the provisions in it will only affect terrorists? Think again. The other day I tried to deposit an insurance settlement check from Hurricane Charley, and they WOULD NOT LET ME DEPOSIT IT without my mother standing next to me with her ID. My mother lives 3000 miles away. Oh, yeah, right, we might be FUNDING TERRORISTS with my hurricane damage money. What a crock of SH*T. The bank was very apologetic that they could not give me access to that money, but their hands are tied by the Patriot Act. Now I have to buy a plane ticket to California to get this check deposited. TELL ME HOW THIS PREVENTS TERRORISM????? GRRRRRRR.
Da, but what about someone whose kid was kidnapped but the cops were able to find her because of powers given to them by the Patriot act, which has happened BTW. Not that I'm especially a fan of it, but the parts that are unconstitutional will be struck down, indeed some already have, and we will get on with life.

There sure are a lot of judgemental people on this site. I never knew the President of the United States had such an affect on other countries. Some people talk like he's slapped your grandma or killed your pet.

So you're trying to say that if Bush's actions don't affect us in person, then it's OK?

As a result of Bush's actions, many Iraqis have had more than grandmothers slapped, they've had grandmothers killed, as well as other relatives.

Yes, Saddam killed before, but don't you admit Bush should have thought out his plans more carefully? Now there's an almost stalemate position, with the Iraqi elections being pushed further and further backwards, andmore people are getting picked off every day by guerilla warfare.

So you're trying to say that if Bush's actions don't affect us in person, then it's OK?

As a result of Bush's actions, many Iraqis have had more than grandmothers slapped, they've had grandmothers killed, as well as other relatives.

Yes, Saddam killed before, but don't you admit Bush should have thought out his plans more carefully? Now there's an almost stalemate position, with the Iraqi elections being pushed further and further backwards, andmore people are getting picked off every day by guerilla warfare.

Of course he should have. He should think out his plans more thouroughly on decisions he makes right here in the US too. What about the hard working people who cant even afford to take their kids to the Dr? Or the price of drugs that elderly people cant afford? I just got through saying how much of Bush's actions we Americans disagree with. Youre getting off my original subject. This isnt me defending Bush- screw him. Its me defending the bashing of Americans just because we have a President that you hate.

So you're trying to say that if Bush's actions don't affect us in person, then it's OK?

As a result of Bush's actions, many Iraqis have had more than grandmothers slapped, they've had grandmothers killed, as well as other relatives.

Yes, Saddam killed before, but don't you admit Bush should have thought out his plans more carefully? Now there's an almost stalemate position, with the Iraqi elections being pushed further and further backwards, andmore people are getting picked off every day by guerilla warfare.


And I guess you didnt see the videos of the innocent people who were kidnapped and beheaded so brutally. They didnt use an axe and make it swift and over with, they used a knife a little bit bigger than a steak knife and sawed these people heads off slowly as they screamed. No one wants to remember that image now do they?