NationStates Jolt Archive

Many people complain about how the US conducts itself these days internationally and rightfully so. Bush has isolated many of America's allies and started the dumbest war since Vietnam. He really likes to shoot first, ask questions later and has surrounded himself with people in his party and administration that will follow him and support him in doing these things. Because of this, many people see America as "evil" now, including many in Canada, who used to be the US' strongest ally. But before people assume this is simply a "Bash America" thread, I will say this, Europe used to conduct itself much the same way. When the English arrived in Canada and the US, they encountered the First Nations. Now, one would think they would try to cooperate with these people because they knew the land and where things like lakes and rivers were. Originally, that is what they supposedly did. Unknowingly though, they brought diseases over that their bodies had built and immunity to but that were foreign to the First Nations and ended killing many thousands. They can't really be blamed for that but once they began to establish colonies, they began to trade with the aboriginals, so while the aboriginals would supply food, the English would give them alchohol. The First Nations became addicted to this and it created many problems in the communities. They also "introduced" Christianity to them, even though the First Nations already had a religion, they missionaries came in and almost disregarded their beliefs and told them the only true one was Christianity. Eventually, they sent First Nations children off to boarding schools, away from their parents where abuse took place. Now, the English are not alone this way. When the French arrived in Eastern Canada, they did much of the same when they encountered the First Nations, and eventually war would break out. The French also brought missionaries, and many of them were burned and skinned alive for the manner in which they presented Catholicism. Eventually, certain tribes made alliances with the French and some with the English but after the battle on the Plains of Abraham, both disgarded the First Nations and the flow of Europeans to Canada began and slowly, the First Nations had their land taken away. Later on, they did make various treaties to get some land back and get reserves, but what they lost was far greater then what they got back. Finally, we all know what happened with the Spanish and Portuguese in Central and South America, so I won't touch on that. No, I am not an angry First Nations person who's ancestors lost their land and what not, I am a descendant of Enlgish and Norwegian immagrants. Secondly, I'm not justifying what America has done internationally either as I completely disagree with much they have done concerning the war on terror with the exception of Afghanistan. I am simply saying that American isn't the only one who's done shit over the course of the last few hundred years, it is just that what America does is all over the media now and what the French did in Eastern Canada 500 years ago is stuck in history books, at museums or on the history channel and so people that don't feel like looking up these things will simply see the US as an evil and really only have the Soviets or the Nazis to compare them to. I know people will disagree with me and that is fine and good and some will agree with me and that is fine and good as well. My conclusion: While one is fresher in our minds, both have done some very cruel things to humans over the years and neither can really justify them. Thats my two cents on the issue, now I'd like to hear yours..........

Many people complain about how the US conducts itself these days internationally and rightfully so. Bush has isolated many of America's allies and started the dumbest war since Vietnam. He really likes to shoot first, ask questions later and has surrounded himself with people in his party and administration that will follow him and support him in doing these things. Because of this, many people see America as "evil" now, including many in Canada, who used to be the US' strongest ally. But before people assume this is simply a "Bash America" thread, I will say this, Europe used to conduct itself much the same way. When the English arrived in Canada and the US, they encountered the First Nations. Now, one would think they would try to cooperate with these people because they knew the land and where things like lakes and rivers were. Originally, that is what they supposedly did. Unknowingly though, they brought diseases over that their bodies had built and immunity to but that were foreign to the First Nations and ended killing many thousands. They can't really be blamed for that but once they began to establish colonies, they began to trade with the aboriginals, so while the aboriginals would supply food, the English would give them alchohol. The First Nations became addicted to this and it created many problems in the communities. They also "introduced" Christianity to them, even though the First Nations already had a religion, they missionaries came in and almost disregarded their beliefs and told them the only true one was Christianity. Eventually, they sent First Nations children off to boarding schools, away from their parents where abuse took place. Now, the English are not alone this way. When the French arrived in Eastern Canada, they did much of the same when they encountered the First Nations, and eventually war would break out. The French also brought missionaries, and many of them were burned and skinned alive for the manner in which they presented Catholicism. Eventually, certain tribes made alliances with the French and some with the English but after the battle on the Plains of Abraham, both disgarded the First Nations and the flow of Europeans to Canada began and slowly, the First Nations had their land taken away. Later on, they did make various treaties to get some land back and get reserves, but what they lost was far greater then what they got back. Finally, we all know what happened with the Spanish and Portuguese in Central and South America, so I won't touch on that. No, I am not an angry First Nations person who's ancestors lost their land and what not, I am a descendant of Enlgish and Norwegian immagrants. Secondly, I'm not justifying what America has done internationally either as I completely disagree with much they have done concerning the war on terror with the exception of Afghanistan. I am simply saying that American isn't the only one who's done shit over the course of the last few hundred years, it is just that what America does is all over the media now and what the French did in Eastern Canada 500 years ago is stuck in history books, at museums or on the history channel and so people that don't feel like looking up these things will simply see the US as an evil and really only have the Soviets or the Nazis to compare them to. I know people will disagree with me and that is fine and good and some will agree with me and that is fine and good as well. My conclusion: While one is fresher in our minds, both have done some very cruel things to humans over the years and neither can really justify them. Thats my two cents on the issue, now I'd like to hear yours..........

Okay, I hear you. I'll agree up to a point - the actions of Europeans impacted massively, nearly genocidally, and perhaps indeed genocidally, upon certain various First Nations peoples - and that cultural imperialism, in one form or another, has been visited upon most First Nations peoples withiin the last 500 years, even as late as the mid-20th century.

However, there has also been popular movements on the part of the descendants of European settlers in North America to recognize, and atone/make amends for the past misguided transgressions of their ancestors and their ancestors' governments.

As far as I know, there's yet to be any official public apologies to First Nations peoples from any European country or government for past acts. That might be nice to see, come to think of it, but I wouldn't expect it. Perhaps the EU might be enough of a recently-developed political entity that they could handle such apologies in a neutral, dispassionate manner. But this is mere supposition.

The United States is directly responsible for the deaths of 100,000 Iraqi citizens. The numbers are in question by those who rather bilndly support the current American administration, but nonetheless, it cannot be argued that there has been an exceptionally high number of noncombatant casualties so far in this military operation. I hope for the sake of us all that it won't take 500 years before someone, anyone will have the courage and strength of character to officially acknowledge or admit to wrongdoing, and offer more than words by way of apology to the memories of the people whose lives were unfairly ended by executive order. Of course, that would mean owning up to a number of questionable, or possibly even illegal military actions - so I shouldn't be at all surprised to see any such apology delayed for at least 50 years, longer if the Bush family is still politically active at that time.

Maybe it will take 500 years after all...

There was a thing on Global National about the schools and the agency thats actually keeping more money then it's giving out to the aboriginals. I can't remember what day it was.

Many people complain about how the US conducts itself these days internationally and rightfully so. Bush has isolated many of America's allies and started the dumbest war since Vietnam. He really likes to shoot first, ask questions later and has surrounded himself with people in his party and administration that will follow him and support him in doing these things. Because of this, many people see America as "evil" now, including many in Canada, who used to be the US' strongest ally. But before people assume this is simply a "Bash America" thread, I will say this, Europe used to conduct itself much the same way. When the English arrived in Canada and the US, they encountered the First Nations. Now, one would think they would try to cooperate with these people because they knew the land and where things like lakes and rivers were. Originally, that is what they supposedly did. Unknowingly though, they brought diseases over that their bodies had built and immunity to but that were foreign to the First Nations and ended killing many thousands. They can't really be blamed for that but once they began to establish colonies, they began to trade with the aboriginals, so while the aboriginals would supply food, the English would give them alchohol. The First Nations became addicted to this and it created many problems in the communities. They also "introduced" Christianity to them, even though the First Nations already had a religion, they missionaries came in and almost disregarded their beliefs and told them the only true one was Christianity. Eventually, they sent First Nations children off to boarding schools, away from their parents where abuse took place. Now, the English are not alone this way. When the French arrived in Eastern Canada, they did much of the same when they encountered the First Nations, and eventually war would break out. The French also brought missionaries, and many of them were burned and skinned alive for the manner in which they presented Catholicism. Eventually, certain tribes made alliances with the French and some with the English but after the battle on the Plains of Abraham, both disgarded the First Nations and the flow of Europeans to Canada began and slowly, the First Nations had their land taken away. Later on, they did make various treaties to get some land back and get reserves, but what they lost was far greater then what they got back. Finally, we all know what happened with the Spanish and Portuguese in Central and South America, so I won't touch on that. No, I am not an angry First Nations person who's ancestors lost their land and what not, I am a descendant of Enlgish and Norwegian immagrants. Secondly, I'm not justifying what America has done internationally either as I completely disagree with much they have done concerning the war on terror with the exception of Afghanistan. I am simply saying that American isn't the only one who's done shit over the course of the last few hundred years, it is just that what America does is all over the media now and what the French did in Eastern Canada 500 years ago is stuck in history books, at museums or on the history channel and so people that don't feel like looking up these things will simply see the US as an evil and really only have the Soviets or the Nazis to compare them to. I know people will disagree with me and that is fine and good and some will agree with me and that is fine and good as well. My conclusion: While one is fresher in our minds, both have done some very cruel things to humans over the years and neither can really justify them. Thats my two cents on the issue, now I'd like to hear yours..........
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There was a thing on Global National about the schools and the agency thats actually keeping more money then it's giving out to the aboriginals. I can't remember what day it was.

Not that it has much to do with the topic at hand, but I find I can't trust Global National (or Can-West Global, really) to properly report on the news without adding in a conservative/pro-US slant at every turn. I used to watch it regularly in the early 90s, but things have changed, and so have they.

Had you noticed this as well? Just curious.

Well I just point out a slight difrence that USA is a democracy today (or atleast say it it, old european countries was not. And if you go back in history the USA did have a so good record either in the 18:th and 19:th century. So don't try to mix apples and bananas because you get a fruitsallade.