NationStates Jolt Archive

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The simple fact is that, in order to prevent the suggestion of a religious preference, government institutions must be secular. School organized prayer has no place in public schools.

I must say, the recent addition of a "moment of silence" to my high school's daily routine was sketchy; although, I am not entirely against it, since "prayer" isn't directly suggested; however, obviously implied. I just fear this may be the beginning of a slippery slope back into the old days.

If you want to pray, by all means, do it on your own time; however, it is absurd to have the school (an institution of the government), set aside time to pray for those who do not necessarily believe in it.

I must say, the recent addition of a "moment of silence" to my high school's daily routine was sketchy; although, I am not entirely against it, since "prayer" isn't directly suggested; however, obviously implied. I just fear this may be the beginning of a slippery slope back into the old days.
my school had a moment of silence after the national anthem (i'm in canada) and it was never implied that we were to pray. we were allowed to sit down and reflect on whatever we felt like.

Moments of silence do not always mean prayer. I went to high school in atheistville, USA (more or less), and even we had moments of silence after tragic events (death of students, 9/11, etc).

It seems to me we're more on the slippery slope of having all public religious expression banned rather than having it forced upon us. Also, that amendment simply means the government cannot force anyone to practice a religion; nor can it tell anyone not to practice a certain religion. Lighten up.

I'm not Christian, but I'm fine with people praying at school.

If it makes people feel better to think thoughts to an unthinking/uncaring probably not even listening God, they can go for it. Not my problem. If a school wants to set aside time for prayer... well... first make sure the vast majority of the school is Christian... then okay. However, if there are like 2 christians in the school, it'd be a bit stupid.

Banning prayer in school is B.S political correct crap though.

;) Do no other religions or philosophies encourage meditation, or does Christianity=religion?

I would not support an organized prayer that all students were expected to recite, but surely giving a moment or two to reflect on the day, on their lives, and on what's most likely to be on their history exam is not a bad thing?

;) Do no other religions or philosophies encourage meditation, or does Christianity=religion?

I would not support an organized prayer that all students were expected to recite, but surely giving a moment or two to reflect on the day, on their lives, and on what's most likely to be on their history exam is not a bad thing?

And bingo was his name-o...

Prayer shouldn't be discouraged or encouraged in schools, they should let the students decide to or not. If a student wants to pray, by all means let him.

Moments of silence are no where close to being prayer, it's more of a sign of respect (especially with 9/11).

Really, the only way to have an entire seperation of church and state would be to ban religion completely, which won't ever happen, so deal with it.

I am not talking about a moment of silence out of respect, I am talking about daily ritual, a moment of silence just for the sake of having a moment of silence. Like I said, I do not really have a problem with this, but I fear the implications.

I'm not Christian, but I'm fine with people praying at school.

If it makes people feel better to think thoughts to an unthinking/uncaring probably not even listening God, they can go for it. Not my problem. If a school wants to set aside time for prayer... well... first make sure the vast majority of the school is Christian... then okay. However, if there are like 2 christians in the school, it'd be a bit stupid.

Banning prayer in school is B.S political correct crap though.

Praying is fine, but forcing children to pray is a breach of their rights.

Enforced prayer leads to... http://winace.andkon.com/pics/dofs.gif

What's so scary about silence? Trust me, these days, with the constant bombardment of cell phones, personal music players, loudspeakers, and the way we rush around as if our lives depended upon using every second of the day in frenetic energy, a couple moments of peace can only do us good.

No one can force anyone to pray... you could sue big time.

It seems to me we're more on the slippery slope of having all public religious expression banned rather than having it forced upon us. Also, that amendment simply means the government cannot force anyone to practice a religion; nor can it tell anyone not to practice a certain religion. Lighten up.Actually the first part of Pengi's post (right after the quote from the Constitution) is closer to what the Supreme Court has upheld the Amendment to mean that what you state. Personal interpretations don't count for much.

I'm not Christian, but I'm fine with people praying at school.

If it makes people feel better to think thoughts to an unthinking/uncaring probably not even listening God, they can go for it. Not my problem. If a school wants to set aside time for prayer... well... first make sure the vast majority of the school is Christian... then okay. However, if there are like 2 christians in the school, it'd be a bit stupid.

Banning prayer in school is B.S political correct crap though.

You'll note, however, that the operational word in the original post was "organized". Of course banning prayer period is B.S., which is why no one has banned prayer. What has been banned is enforced, codified periods where one group organizes a specific prayer to a specific deity in a specific manner. That I don't think is all that unreasonable. It's one thing to set aside time for a silent moment. It's quite another for the Baptists (for example) to lead a prayer over the speakerphones so that I, as a fairly liberal Evangelical Lutheran, cannot in good faith follow.

;) Do no other religions or philosophies encourage meditation, or does Christianity=religion?

I would not support an organized prayer that all students were expected to recite, but surely giving a moment or two to reflect on the day, on their lives, and on what's most likely to be on their history exam is not a bad thing?

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm a devout athiest myself, but I think our schools would do well to encourage students to spend time (even a few minutes a day) in quiet contemplation. It would be great if our children could learn the habit of stopping and thinking from time to time, and if some do this by praying or meditating, that's ok by me.

Banning prayer in school is B.S political correct crap though.

No not really.

If they set aside for all religions then there is little argument as neutrality remains.

Problem is the prayer time is usually Christian.....

I'm a devout athiest myself, but I think our schools would do well to encourage students to spend time (even a few minutes a day) in quiet contemplation.
Please never use the phrase "devout atheist". I'll just make Christians jumo with glee and say that atheism is a religion. I personally am an agnostic deist, but I don't want to give those Judeo-Christians any foothole that they don't make themselves.

I am a devout player of AD&D.... ;)

No not really.

If they set aside for all religions then there is little argument as neutrality remains.

Problem is the prayer time is usually Christian.....
The real problem is that if they set aside prayer time for all religions or create a "non-denominational prayer" then atheists are still being compelled into religious activity, which breaches the rights set down by the first amendment, since public schools are run by the State.

You know what I think they should do?

Maybe have the Christians start up a club of some sort, they could meet at lunch or something and pray then. That way, anyone who wants to can go ahead and pray, anyone who doesn't want to can do whatever else they want.

I kind of ripped the idea off the fact my school has a Christian club (it's technically considered the religion club, to shut the idiots who cry discriminatory up, but it's headed by a Christian pastor....), but anywho...

Any objections with that idea?

in Australia public education requires you get some religious education 4 times in Years 8, 9 and 10. Whatever religion you filled out on your student form, they try and arrange it for you ( i was dumb enough to put down Greek Orthodox when i really don't attend church since im a non-believer). What annoyed me was that the Muslims at my school, and there were a decent number, were simply put with the non-religious group, even though there were more Muslims than Baptists...

im all for those ISCF things...and if you want your kid to grow up religious, then send them to a religious school..plenty of people do it here.

Prayer in school? NO.

I went to catholic schools till I was 16 and have been an atheist for 11 years (I'm 18) and I was actively singled out by teaching staff for my lack of faith and I was forever having to face the Headmaster or the Head of Year over farsical things like: the fact that I wouldn't bow my head when everyone else was praying - I'm sorry but I don't see why I should engage in the rituals of something I find morally repugnant.

This is the fact of the matter: If kids want to pray they can pray by themselves when it becomes a job of an agent of the state to force children to pray then kids will feel something like this: :headbang:

-

They tried to enforce it in all schools in the UK, under the Conservative government of Thatcher... the Education Reform Act 1988 what happened? The schools revolted. The law became a standing joke which the Conservatives tried repeatedly to ammend and force schools to obey... the state schools didn't.

The Act also provided for the forced teaching of religious education... this was complied... because it was meant to be for all 'major' faiths present in an 'overall christian Great Britian'

I am not talking about a moment of silence out of respect, I am talking about daily ritual, a moment of silence just for the sake of having a moment of silence. Like I said, I do not really have a problem with this, but I fear the implications.

I think that would diminish the solemnity of the occasional 'moments of silence' we currently observe, don't you? If people wish to spend time in prayer/meditation/ritual, they should do it before school begins, in a space of their choosing within the school, or without. Yes, the implications are rather worrisome.

Moments of silence do not always mean prayer. I went to high school in atheistville, USA (more or less), and even we had moments of silence after tragic events (death of students, 9/11, etc).

Where is this place? I want to live in Atheistville, USA..

It seems to me we're more on the slippery slope of having all public religious expression banned rather than having it forced upon us. Also, that amendment simply means the government cannot force anyone to practice a religion; nor can it tell anyone not to practice a certain religion. Lighten up.

You can pray in school all you want, The school just cant make it mandatory that everyone must pray. Making it mandatory for all students to pray would be forcing them to practice a certain religion.

in Australia public education requires you get some religious education 4 times in Years 8, 9 and 10. Whatever religion you filled out on your student form, they try and arrange it for you
Must depend on either location or school. I know we don't here.

im all for those ISCF things...and if you want your kid to grow up religious, then send them to a religious school..plenty of people do it here.
Indeed.

Where is this place? I want to live in Atheistville, USA..

The Godless North, of course. Home state of JFKerry. Two towns over from the Lesbian Capital of the World and in easy driving distance of the Gay capital of the Eastern Seaboard.

The Godless North, of course. Home state of JFKerry. Two towns over from the Lesbian Capital of the World and in easy driving distance of the Gay capital of the Eastern Seaboard.

Damn I want to live there.

so what you are saying is that the rest of the world only needs to nuke the South?

EU take note.

I remember my first grade till my last grade, they used to pray the muslim prayer every morning in assembly before school starts.

In fact, I can even remember it at the back of my head.

Ismiilahh ilmahaa Ilmahim.
Marokto bla ilmahar ilmahim.
something something
Ahammdullilaa ........

Uh. forgotten the rest.

Oh yeah, and on Fridays, all muslim girls must wear their tudung (head scarf).

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What the hell is the argument? Schools can't force prayer. Done. Nuff said! Let it go! If anyone makes you pray, sue them!

Two towns over from the Lesbian Capital of the World .

/grabs a camera and ask for directions