NationStates Jolt Archive

On reading a comment in the homosexuality thread I thought I'd bring up another seperate issue, Heaven and Hell...

Now, first off Hell is meant to be the eternal torment of Satan and the fallen angels... not their little theifdom as is commonly held to be the case...

Now... heres the problem I've not been able to find the solution to in scripture... after the appearance of the Anti-Christ and the years of hell on Earth, Jesus appears in the second coming leading the legions of heaven... presumably Micheal is carrying the sword he introduced Satan to before the fall of man... - So, the warrior king Jesus appears and in a climatic battle which involves throwing Death, the mother of all prostitutes who at the time will be having sex with the 10 headed 7 horned beast at the time and the breaking of the 7 seals...

The ultimate outcome being the total defeat of the forces of evil...

Now... surely... if evil is then purged... all humanity is saved because there is no longer a hell to convieniantly dispose of the damned in...

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The full text can be found in Reveliations (use www.bible.com if you're too lazy to go look for a bible lol)

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Little point to note about the mother of all prostitutes, shes ontop - this is a gravious sin... and is what in the Tora resulted in the explusion of Lilith from the Garden of Eden.

Coincidently there are roughly 7 angels classed as Angels of Death... why don't they go in the pit? lol

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Yes... I do have a strange fascination with the holy texts... :rolleyes: "know thine enemy" :cool:

Now... surely... if evil is then purged... all humanity is saved because there is no longer a hell to convieniantly dispose of the damned in...

My understanding of it is that when hell is confined to the firery pit that signals the begining of eternaty - ie: nothing can escape the firery pit. By that time all the chosen ones (as written down on that list) will have accended to heaven, and those left on earth will be confined to a sort of earthly hell.

This is probably NOT what is in the text, but it's been a while since I read it and my mind tends to fill any gaps in my memory with lies - lies that I will argue adimentely are true.

Homer: Wait, I'm confused about the movie... so the cops knew internal affairs were setting them up?
Man: What are you talking about theres nothing like that in there
Homer: Well y'see when I get bored I make up my own movie. I have a very short attention span

"Hey look a squiral" :)

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur. 21 And the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.
[...]
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[...]
And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; 15 and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


The Lake of Fire is not Hell. Furthermore its mention AFTER the second coming.

The Lake of Fire is simply the means by which God purges the world of all the bad stuff He doesn't want in the New Heaven and Earth.



1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away." 5 And he who sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Also he said, "Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true." 6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. 7 He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

So you see this is all AFTER the second coming and final defeat of the Devil. The LAke of fire IS NOT HELL, hell is destroyed in the Lake. In Fact Hell isn't even mentioned in the bible:

7 And there was war in Heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in Heaven.
9 And the Great Dragon was cast out, that Old Serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the Earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
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1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended.
Thats the closest you get to Satans hell - Earth, and Hades (the Greek land of the dead) is used for the place where sinners go.

Anything specific you want explaining just ask. I hate the Bible so much.

Will there be beer in this 'lake of fire'?

What is an earthy hell? Is it something like what we have now?

No, beer may well be thrown into the fire but it would instantly be destroyed by gods wrath.


Yes, exaclt. Infact the Earth meets the critera of the coming of the 1st and Second beast (ie the antichrist) if not the second comming of Christ himself. Bible code says 2006... might convert to Christianity just to be on the safe side I don't see Him looking to kindly on Satanists...

No, beer may well be thrown into the fire but it would instantly be destroyed by gods wrath.


Yes, exaclt. Infact the Earth meets the critera of the coming of the 1st and Second beast (ie the antichrist) if not the second comming of Christ himself. Bible code says 2006... might convert to Christianity just to be on the safe side I don't see Him looking to kindly on Satanists...

I have couple more questions:

Ben Franklin said: "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Wouldn't that mean that the beer would be in Heaven?

Secondly, isn't the 'Bible code' and example of kabala, which is specifically forbidden in the Old Testament as witchcraft?

I'm sooo confused.

No, beer may well be thrown into the fire but it would instantly be destroyed by gods wrath.


Yes, exaclt. Infact the Earth meets the critera of the coming of the 1st and Second beast (ie the antichrist) if not the second comming of Christ himself. Bible code says 2006... might convert to Christianity just to be on the safe side I don't see Him looking to kindly on Satanists...

I have couple more questions:

Ben Franklin said: "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Wouldn't that mean that the beer would be in Heaven?

Secondly, isn't the 'Bible code' and example of kabala, which is specifically forbidden in the Old Testament as witchcraft?

I'm sooo confused.

I have couple more questions:

Ben Franklin said: "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Wouldn't that mean that the beer would be in Heaven?

Secondly, isn't the 'Bible code' and example of kabala, which is specifically forbidden in the Old Testament as witchcraft?

I'm sooo confused.


1) Beer may well be in heaven, but it'd all be in moderation so you couldn't get drunk so whats the point?
2) The Bible code is not the same as the Holy Qaballah. The Qaballah involves manipluting the numerical values of words (each Hebrew letter is also a number - go figure) to unveil Jehovah's works and advance His grand design. It is not forbiden in the Old Testimont and was, and is, widly practiced by Jewish Rabbis. The Bible Code is simply looking at every 3rd (or 4th, or 5th etc) word in the bible (looking up and down and fowards and backwards like a word search) to find hidden messages. The Kabballa can be used on anyword (was appernelty used on the name of a country to make Hitler attack Russia instead of whatever counrty it was) whereas the Bible code can be used on any mass of text - they used it on Moby Dick to predict past events (but only the Bible has been used to [sucessfully] predict a future event).

1) Beer may well be in heaven, but it'd all be in moderation so you couldn't get drunk so whats the point?
2) The Bible code is not the same as the Holy Qaballah. The Qaballah involves manipluting the numerical values of words (each Hebrew letter is also a number - go figure) to unveil Jehovah's works and advance His grand design. It is not forbiden in the Old Testimont and was, and is, widly practiced by Jewish Rabbis. The Bible Code is simply looking at every 3rd (or 4th, or 5th etc) word in the bible (looking up and down and fowards and backwards like a word search) to find hidden messages. The Kabballa can be used on anyword (was appernelty used on the name of a country to make Hitler attack Russia instead of whatever counrty it was) whereas the Bible code can be used on any mass of text - they used it on Moby Dick to predict past events (but only the Bible has been used to [sucessfully] predict a future event).


How do you 'predict' a past event? Isn't that a bit like applying a Nostradamus quatrain to a current event to find a similarity and calling it a fullfillment of prophecy?

Also, wouldn't the font and type set then have an impact on the future since more can be printed on a page with a 4 point font than a 12 point font? Is there a holy font size?

How do you 'predict' a past event? Isn't that a bit like applying a Nostradamus quatrain to a current event to find a similarity and calling it a fullfillment of prophecy?

Also, wouldn't the font and type set then have an impact on the future since more can be printed on a page with a 4 point font than a 12 point font? Is there a holy font size?


1) You really can't and yep. But the Bible code was basically "There's a hidden message here that predicted the kennedy assinations 5000 years before they happened. Then some guy found the same thing in Moby Dick and said "If there are enough words it'll come up as conicidence". The bible did however predict the death of some dude before it happened.
2) Not at all. And no. Simply enter all the Hebrew letters into a grid so all the letters are the smae size and do a giant word search - I'm not kidding that how the bible code 'works', make a gaint wordseach.

Thats the closest you get to Satans hell - Earth, and Hades (the Greek land of the dead) is used for the place where sinners go.

Actually Hades is just the kingdom of the dead, it is Tartarus where the eternal punishment goes on, and Elysium is where the good guys go. Your right about hell not being in the bible though as the origional Hebrew text uses the world Sheol (sp?) to mean place of dead or grave. The greek equivelent to sheol is hades - the kingdom of the dead, and the English for hades is hell. Now here's an interesting fact, the word hell origionally meant grave, and stems from the same groups of words as hole. So when the bible mentions hell (in the old testanment at least) it means grave not fire and brimstone.

No, beer may well be thrown into the fire but it would instantly be destroyed by gods wrath.


Yes, exaclt. Infact the Earth meets the critera of the coming of the 1st and Second beast (ie the antichrist) if not the second comming of Christ himself. Bible code says 2006... might convert to Christianity just to be on the safe side I don't see Him looking to kindly on Satanists...

I've always seen it say either 2012 or 2014.

1) Beer may well be in heaven, but it'd all be in moderation so you couldn't get drunk so whats the point?


Uh no, actually we'll be given a new body where it's without sickness and diesase, and feel no pain, no greif, no... bla bla bla.

So it's all DRINKING and there's no SHITFACE tomorrow Morning!! HURRAH!!

But a good question.. is would we get high with our new bodies? :D

Nag Ehgoeg :In Fact Hell isn't even mentioned in the bible:

Sorry but youre wrong-its mentioned quite a few times in the bible.

Strictly speaking, there are a few factual errors here.

1. Tartarus, Elysian, etc. were written of by Virgil, who was a Roman, in the Aeneid. Homer (where we get a lot knowledge about Greek myths and beliefs) only wrote of Hades as basicly a dank, dark abysmal place. There was a distinction between the White Hats and Black Hats, but there wasn't a lot.

2. "Hell" is an english word, and technicly isn't in the Bible, though it is translated as such quite a bit. The words often translated in hell are the Hebrew Sheol (it's kinda a general holding place, so it's more often translated "The Grave", ProMonkians was right), the Hebrew Gehenna (A specific punishment place. Man: "Ow this hurts. What did I do to deserve this?" God: *Brings out a 769 page list* Man: "Oh, right. I forgot."), the Greek Hades (where the Black Hats go before the final judgement to get messed with a bit. Look up the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. The Rich guy goes to Hades) and Tartarus (where the angels that got biz-ay with human women pre-flood and made little baby Nephilim got sent). I think that's all of the different words for hell, though I may have missed one.

3. Not so much an error correction as a clarification, the way Hebrew Numberletters work is that they have 22 letters in total, call them A through V, for the sake of understanding. Now, Hebrew Numberlettering works like Roman Numerals. They don't have place value, the various letters add, but it works better as they have more letters to work with rather than just MLCDXVI. So you have A-J as 1-10, K-S as 20-100 and T-V as 200-400 (I'm off somewhere, it actually goes up to 500, but I don't have the time to check where). This also has the interesting effect of making it possible to get the same number written various different ways, but it normally appears just one way, as that's the easiest to write. But if you have the number 265, written standardly, that also spells out TOE. Plus each Hebrew letter is semi-pictographic, in that it came from a drawing of something that started with that letter, though it may have drifted a bit since, so you can get all kinds of different meanings out of basicly anything Hebrew, especially if you're reading the Masoretic texts, which omit the vowels so you can get more possibilities out of a word.

All I am saying is that the other person said that Hell wasnt mentioned in the Bible, whether its translated or not-its in there:

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Deuteronomy 32:22 - For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

2 Samuel 22:6 - The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;



Job 11:8 - It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

Job 26:6 - Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Psalms 9:17 - The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalms 16:10 - For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalms 18:5 - The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.

Psalms 55:15 - Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.

Psalms 86:13 - For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.



Its mentioned a lot more than this but I didnt want to take up a whole page by copy and pasting. Just letting him know that yes Hell is mentioned in the Bible. I think the Bible shouldnt be compared to other Literary books since it is considered Holy or Religious. My belief is that when you read the Bible, as a believer, you are relying on your faith to help interpret the words and apply them to your life. If you are a non believer-then of course....its just another Literary work and makes absolutely no sense.

Actually Hades is just the kingdom of the dead, it is Tartarus where the eternal punishment goes on, and Elysium is where the good guys go. Your right about hell not being in the bible though as the origional Hebrew text uses the world Sheol (sp?) to mean place of dead or grave. The greek equivelent to sheol is hades - the kingdom of the dead, and the English for hades is hell. Now here's an interesting fact, the word hell origionally meant grave, and stems from the same groups of words as hole. So when the bible mentions hell (in the old testanment at least) it means grave not fire and brimstone.

Elysium was only where 'good guys go' in the very late greek literature... Conventionally, it was a paradise, but only for the gods and their favourites.

This is a relatively good string of thought. The bottom line is that no person posting here has visited heaven or hell. I recommend having faith that God will bring all people into awareness when they are all judged by Him.

In the meantime, my choice is to live as closely as I can live to the manner in which I understand God wants me to live. Among the key elements of the faith I choose are the acceptance of Jesus Christ as my Savior.

Among the many other keys, is for me to love my enemies. From that thought, I have decided that war is wrong. Killing other people is not the method that God wants us to use to bring everyone into the light of goodness.

As for the lake of fire, God will be using fire to cleanse the earth, as far as I can understand the words in the Bible. Some people think this implies a nuclear holocaust, but I am inclined to go with the natural physics of a declining spiral orbit of earth into the sun.

As for the time when the end will occur, God created time. Also, only He knows when He will bring souls into heaven and cast others into hell.

As for the lake of fire, God will be using fire to cleanse the earth, as far as I can understand the words in the Bible. Some people think this implies a nuclear holocaust, but I am inclined to go with the natural physics of a declining spiral orbit of earth into the sun

Why would God do that?