NationStates Jolt Archive

so i've encountered some conservatives who claim that they're discriminated against for things like being homophobic and saying that the poor can fuck themselves.

now. is it really discrimination to call someone on being discriminatory against other people? not to mention that no one is trying to keep them from their ways of discriminating... hell, free speach for all... doesn't mean that you're any less wrong when you say that being gay isn't natural.

This opens up a intersting line. Liberals label Conservatives as bigots because they label anyone that isnt them as evil and nasty (Gays, immigrants, unemployed etc) but are not Liberals the same. IE they are saying that anyone who doesnt agree with their ideals are bigots so are they not being just as bigoted themselves. I think so.

The age old question: "Does a tolerant person have to tolerate intolerance?" :p

What ever happened to people caring about & looking out for each other
regradless of their differances?

I don't beleive in calling anyone a bigot unless they discriminate based on race or possibly religion. Thus there can be no bigotry against conservatives. However one can descriminate agaisnt them, just as one can discriminate against any other group.

What ever happened to people caring about & looking out for each other
regradless of their differances?
When did that happen?

How can you be discriminatory/hateful against one group and then get offended when another group says essentially the same thing against you. Double standard.

When did that happen?


How old are you? I can remember people where I grew up being that way.

I think some people confuse freedom of speech with freedom from the consequences of speech. If you say something homophobic, I'm going to call you a bigoted tool. I'm going to say something if you do that sort of thing in my presence, but I'm not going to have all of "your sort" rounded up and locked away.

The age old question: "Does a tolerant person have to tolerate intolerance?" :p

Tolerance != acceptance

So yeah, tolerating intolerance is okay, but you don't have to

We never ever had to lock our doors when we left the house. Why because people there cared enough to look after your home for you. They
call that a Neighborhood Watch now like its a new idea or something.

I think some people confuse freedom of speech with freedom from the consequences of speech. If you say something homophobic, I'm going to call you a bigoted tool. I'm going to say something if you do that sort of thing in my presence, but I'm not going to have all of "your sort" rounded up and locked away.

Saying something homophobic doesnt make you a bigot. It's when you constantly do it and in a SERIOUS tone..

This opens up a intersting line. Liberals label Conservatives as bigots because they label anyone that isnt them as evil and nasty (Gays, immigrants, unemployed etc) but are not Liberals the same. IE they are saying that anyone who doesnt agree with their ideals are bigots so are they not being just as bigoted themselves. I think so.

Do you guys remember racial profiling? Anyways, you're describing it as if you're not profiling the Liberals the same way. At times I agree that "Liberals" do also generalize the political dogma of the "Conservatives." Myself, as a Liberal usually like to argue for things that will benefit me, the middle class citizen. Either way, attacking Liberals in this fashion will not change their belief of an ideal solution.

How old are you? I can remember people where I grew up being that way.
Late 20s.

This opens up a intersting line. Liberals label Conservatives as bigots because they label anyone that isnt them as evil and nasty (Gays, immigrants, unemployed etc) but are not Liberals the same. IE they are saying that anyone who doesnt agree with their ideals are bigots so are they not being just as bigoted themselves. I think so.

This is saying that we can't ever use a word to describe anyone. If someone meets the definition of bigot, they can be called a bigot. It isn't a "label" in the way that liberal or conservative are, because it is the very definition of the word.

If someone is a CS patient, I am not being discriminatory by saying they are a CS patient. Likewise, if someone is a bigot, I am not being discriminatory by saying they are a bigot.

This opens up a intersting line. Liberals label Conservatives as bigots because they label anyone that isnt them as evil and nasty (Gays, immigrants, unemployed etc) but are not Liberals the same. IE they are saying that anyone who doesnt agree with their ideals are bigots so are they not being just as bigoted themselves. I think so.

calling a bigot a bigot isn't bigotry. that is a ridiculous abuse of language.

This opens up a intersting line. Liberals label Conservatives as bigots because they label anyone that isnt them as evil and nasty (Gays, immigrants, unemployed etc) but are not Liberals the same. IE they are saying that anyone who doesnt agree with their ideals are bigots so are they not being just as bigoted themselves. I think so.
good point well said.
us liberals are hippocrites, but o well....

oh are the poor dears being locked out of country club memberships once the committee finds out they are conservatives? are they not getting invited to the big society parties?

are the crack dealers refusing them service?

oh oh oh maybe their gay hairdresser refused to sell them the nioxin they need to keep their hair from falling out??

just how are they being DISCRIMINATED against? suggesting that they are wrong is not discrimination.

Bigotry is bad, discrimination is healthy. Should a mosque allow a bunch of people carrying signs promoting christianity and weilding bullhorns into friday night services or should they assume based on their appearance that they will disrupt the meeting?

I don't beleive in calling anyone a bigot unless they discriminate based on race or possibly religion. Thus there can be no bigotry against conservatives. However one can descriminate agaisnt them, just as one can discriminate against any other group.
gender? age? appearance?

it is possible to discriminate against others for things other than race and religion...

however, i don't really see how it's discrimination when you're not insulting them, unless being wrong is an insult, or when you're not prohibiting them from speaking their minds, you're just pointing out that they're in error.

Now wait a minute.

Everyone on here is forgeting what bigotry and discrimination is on here. Discrimination and bigotry are the judging of the individuals on the actions or characteristics as a whole.

Conservatives tend to get called bigots based on PERSONAL beliefs. Homophobia, racism are not conservative qualities, but are PERSONAL qualities, therefore do not fit into the definition of bigotry and discrimination.

So the injustice occurs when someone is lumped into the group and not judged on personal qualities.

gender? age? appearance?

it is possible to discriminate against others for things other than race and religion...

however, i don't really see how it's discrimination when you're not insulting them, unless being wrong is an insult, or when you're not prohibiting them from speaking their minds, you're just pointing out that they're in error.
I said it's possible to discriminate against anyone. I don't necessarily think discrimination is bad. Bigotry, discrimination based on race, and maybe religion is, IMHO bad.

Of course we're descriminated against. We do the same thing to liberals, you just don't notice it because we're in the minority here.

Of course we're descriminated against. We do the same thing to liberals, you just don't notice it because we're in the minority here.

HOORAY!!! A voice of reason.

Of course we're descriminated against. We do the same thing to liberals, you just don't notice it because we're in the minority here.
?

are you sure about that?

amd again, how are you discriminated against?

By a Liberal simply calling Conservatives bigots this shows that they are a bigot. I confess to being a Conservative, and I'm proud to call myself one. By saying that Conservatives are bigots you have just lumped all of us into one group. I hate racism, I think the KKK and all those other groups should be banned, so am I a bigot? Before you lump an entire group into one category think about what you are doing, you are making a bigot of yourself.

By a Liberal simply calling Conservatives bigots this shows that they are a bigot. I confess to being a Conservative, and I'm proud to call myself one. By saying that Conservatives are bigots you have just lumped all of us into one group. I hate racism, I think the KKK and all those other groups should be banned, so am I a bigot? Before you lump an entire group into one category think about what you are doing, you are making a bigot of yourself.

Which is why no one here (that I have seen) has said that everyone with conservative viewpoints is a bigot.

However, certain viewpoints associated with many conservatives meet the definition of bigotry. Therefore, those who hold those viewpoints are bigots, by the very definition of the word.

By a Liberal simply calling Conservatives bigots this shows that they are a bigot. I confess to being a Conservative, and I'm proud to call myself one. By saying that Conservatives are bigots you have just lumped all of us into one group. I hate racism, I think the KKK and all those other groups should be banned, so am I a bigot? Before you lump an entire group into one category think about what you are doing, you are making a bigot of yourself.
i haven't lumped an entire group. i know that not all conservatives are homophobes or racists. some are.

and when some of those who are indeed homophobic spout opinions which have been shown false by scientific observations and discoveries, and when they say that being gay can be changed, i say that they are wrong and they claim they are being discriminated against.

i'm not grouping all conservatives together, i'm saying that some of them are like this.

and you aren't racist. good for you, so what? i didnt' even mention race in my post, that's a prejudice that has become socially unacceptable in most circles anyways.

I think there's a distinction that needs to be made. Calling any and all conservatives bigots is being bigotted yourself, because you're stereotyping all conservatives as the worst kind. Calling someone a bigot who actively calls gays evil or says poor people should all die is not being a bigot, because they obviously fit the description of being a bigot. Calling one person a bigot does not make you a bigot; generalizing an entire political ethos as bigots does.

(think I could have used the word "bigot" any more?)

I think some people confuse freedom of speech with freedom from the consequences of speech. If you say something homophobic, I'm going to call you a bigoted tool. I'm going to say something if you do that sort of thing in my presence, but I'm not going to have all of "your sort" rounded up and locked away.

But why do your sort of people have the right to call those who insult racial groups bigots? Are not you just inuslting them in the same genralising way? Double standard.

so i've encountered some conservatives who claim that they're discriminated against for things like being homophobic and saying that the poor can fuck themselves.

now. is it really discrimination to call someone on being discriminatory against other people? not to mention that no one is trying to keep them from their ways of discriminating... hell, free speach for all... doesn't mean that you're any less wrong when you say that being gay isn't natural.

now where did i say all conservatives are like this?

please tell me.

But why do your sort of people have the right to call those who insult racial groups bigots? Are not you just inuslting them in the same genralising way? Double standard.

No double standard. If you insult a racial group, that is bigotry. By definition. Generalizing all racists as racists is not being discriminatory; it's making an obvious observation. Now, saying all "conservatives" are racists would be bigotted.

now where did i say all conservatives are like this?

please tell me.

In case you're talking to me, I wasn't specifically referencing any one post; I was just making a statement.

But why do your sort of people have the right to call those who insult racial groups bigots? Are not you just inuslting them in the same genralising way? Double standard.

Do you not understand English?

Bigot is a word - an adjective, just like intelligent, happy, or tall is an adjective. If someone meets the requirements entailed by the word bigot, then they are a bigot *exactly* as someone who meets the requirements to be tall might be described as being "tall."

I am fairly tall. I am also light-skinned and slightly overweight. Now, if someone called me "that tall, white, kinda heavy girl over there," that wouldn't be an insult. I don't really like the fact that people realize that I am a little heavy, because I don't want to be heavy - but it is not an insult for someone to use an adjective that applies.

The fact that you see the word as an insult demonstrates that you don't want to be *seen* as being a bigot. However, you meet the requirements, therefore you are a bigot. It's pretty simple.

Do you not understand English?

Bigot is a word - an adjective, just like intelligent, happy, or tall is an adjective. If someone meets the requirements entailed by the word bigot, then they are a bigot *exactly* as someone who meets the requirements to be tall might be described as being "tall."

I am fairly tall. I am also light-skinned and slightly overweight. Now, if someone called me "that tall, white, kinda heavy girl over there," that wouldn't be an insult. I don't really like the fact that people realize that I am a little heavy, because I don't want to be heavy - but it is not an insult for someone to use an adjective that applies.

The fact that you see the word as an insult demonstrates that you don't want to be *seen* as being a bigot. However, you meet the requirements, therefore you are a bigot. It's pretty simple.

exactly.

and aside from that, where did anyone generalize?

The fact that you see the word as an insult demonstrates that you don't want to be *seen* as being a bigot. However, you meet the requirements, therefore you are a bigot. It's pretty simple.

The word bigot though is an insulting term. If you said "Raciest" or "homophobe" where they were justified then maybe, but bigot is still offensive.

The word bigot though is an insulting term. If you said "Raciest" or "homophobe" where they were justified then maybe, but bigot is still offensive.

big·ot Audio pronunciation of "bigot" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


if the shoe fits

The word bigot though is an insulting term. If you said "Raciest" or "homophobe" where they were justified then maybe, but bigot is still offensive.
being racist and homophobic is being a bigot.

on each offense... unless you want to argue the definitons of the word.

The word bigot though is an insulting term. If you said "Raciest" or "homophobe" where they were justified then maybe, but bigot is still offensive.

No more offensive than "white," "tall," "heavy," "black," "happy," or "gruff."

These are all adjectives. They all describe something about a person. Racist, homophobe, and bigot are also adjectives that describe something about a person. If someone objects to being called a bigot - they need to examine the philosophy that makes them one. Otherwise, if you are proud to be bigotted, then the word shouldn't bother you. There are those that are proud of being racists, homophobes, or tall. They are not offended by these words being used.

being racist and homophobic is being a bigot.

on each offense... unless you want to argue the definitons of the word.

"Bigot" is far to generalising and is used to cover any number of attiudes. Also it is often used by those who do not understand someones views. For example many have called me bigoted for my beliefs about homosexuality when it it not the case.

"Bigot" is far to generalising and is used to cover any number of attiudes. Also it is often used by those who do not understand someones views. For example many have called me bigoted for my beliefs about homosexuality when it it not the case.
Again
big·ot Audio pronunciation of "bigot" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


if you fit that deffinition you it is true

Again


if you fit that deffinition you are true

But people use it incorectly for someone who may be homophobic but not raceist etc. And for the record by that definition I am not a bigot.

"Bigot" is far to generalising and is used to cover any number of attiudes. Also it is often used by those who do not understand someones views. For example many have called me bigoted for my beliefs about homosexuality when it it not the case.
how about you exaplain your views on homosexuality then.

if you sit there saying that a) homosexuality is a choice b) isn't natural c) should be illegal d) "them gays should be killed" or the like... then chances are...

how about you exaplain your views on homosexuality then.

if you sit there saying that a) homosexuality is a choice b) isn't natural c) should be illegal d) "them gays should be killed" or the like... then chances are...

I believe that homosexual sex is a sin. The attraction itself is a temptation. I believe homosexuality itslef is not nautral in the context of Eden for more info see the thread "WIHAS"

But people use it incorectly for someone who may be homophobic but not raceist etc. And for the record by that definition I am not a bigot.
if someone is racist they are a bigot.

if someone is homophobic, they are a bigot.

they are bigotted against different groups maybe, but still bigotted.

I believe that homosexual sex is a sin. The attraction itself is a temptation. I believe homosexuality itslef is not nautral in the context of Eden for more info see the thread "WIHAS"
if homosexuality isn't natural then explain why homosexual behaviour has been ovserved in every species for which sexual behaviour has been observed. in nature, mind you. how can animals be unnatural?

But people use it incorectly for someone who may be homophobic but not raceist etc. And for the record by that definition I am not a bigot.

Anyone who is racist is a bigot. However, all bigots are not racists.
Anything which is orange has a color. However, not all things with color are orange.

You *do* fit the definition when it comes to homosexuals, so you are a kind of bigot. If you wish to have this attitude towards homosexuals, then it is not an insult, but simply a description.

But people use it incorectly for someone who may be homophobic but not raceist etc. And for the record by that definition I am not a bigot.
I am not here to argue if they used it correctly

if you fit that deffinition you are a biggiot if not that is fine too ... if they use it incorrectly that is wrong (emotional loading and such)

But people use it incorectly for someone who may be homophobic but not raceist etc. And for the record by that definition I am not a bigot.

That's like saying the word 'animal' is used incorrectly because your pet may be a dog but not a cat.

Bigot is not being used incorrectly in the above case. Bigot is not defined as an inclusive list of all the types of bigotry. It is simply a term to describe bigots in general. Thus a bigot can be a homophobe but not a racist.

Now wait a minute.

Everyone on here is forgeting what bigotry and discrimination is on here. Discrimination and bigotry are the judging of the individuals on the actions or characteristics as a whole.

Conservatives tend to get called bigots based on PERSONAL beliefs. Homophobia, racism are not conservative qualities, but are PERSONAL qualities, therefore do not fit into the definition of bigotry and discrimination.

So the injustice occurs when someone is lumped into the group and not judged on personal qualities.

I'm sorry but I have to call fpr a clarification here.

Personal qualities??!?!

I think it's a pretty safe bet if you hear ****** and or faggot, you have somebody of the conservative persuasion.

I have not met any liberals with such "personal qualities."