NationStates Jolt Archive

Discuss.

By "state," I mean the states, just in case you didn't know.

You didn't put an option for "Reform it, fundamentally redesign it so it is fair and actually helps people"

Edit: Uhh.. wait a second. the thread changed abit....

Privatize it and let companies handle it.

Well, I've thought about this for a few minutes, so obviously nothing special here. But my suggestion is this: you reform it and make it truly universal. You mail out everyone in the country food stamps and clothing stamps, redeemable for that period only and for only certain (approved items--bare necessities). Possibly this would be too costly, but I feel that most people who don't want to 'have the bare necessities', that being as bland as it is probably wouldn't use it. It removes the misuse of funding and system rorting. You also don't have to worry about means testing people. With that you also remove progressive taxation. Everyone should be happy.

I'm not sure what to do about housing. Possibly you produce something like a shipping crate as a virtually self-contained one person house, but that doesn't help families too easily, and how do you decide when to give that to someone?

Also, something would have to be done about education and healthcare. There ought to be some minimum standard in both. But as I understand, that's pretty much the case in the US already. Something also should be done about transportation. Maybe everyone gets a free bicycle if they want it.

Everything else is a luxury and has to be paid for.

Yes, I guess I sound like a commie now, but it's the only solution I've been able to think of that both provides the bare necessities, is fair, minimises incentives to adverse actions and hopefully isn't too costly. I'm not sure about that last point though. Hopefully the fact that people still want all the niceties of life will drive them along to do more work.

Abolish the disincentives that prevent people from tranisitioning to work, i.e, loss of health care food stamps etc.


Otherwise keep it the way it is.

Deacon is on the right track. One of the major flaws with Welfare is that we have a situation where people make LESS money by working! Between transportation, daycare and other expenses, many people literally can't afford to work!

I think that Welfare and state Departments of Labor should be merged. I think that more opportunities for education and career training should be afforded to people on Welfare so they can find jobs that actually pay decent money.

Once such programs are in place and people who want to go to school, people who want to get good jobs and keep them can do so, then it'll be easier to spot those abusing the system(which I believe are a slim minority) and remove them from it.

My mother was on Welfare after my father left her without warning. She refused to stay on it. She took a paycut to work. My aunt and grandmother helped watch me and my sister. I ate a lot of peanut butter and oatmeal growing up.

Now, she owns her own house, has a college degree and a very good job. But not everyone is as fortunate as my mother. Not everyone has caring family members and the willpower to earn less by working. My mother was a very proud woman. The trap of Welfare couldn't hold her. But can we expect everyone to be like her?

I voted for reform. However I wouldn't vote for either choice you have listed. I would use half of each. I would give it more funding and stricter rules.

Let Charities take it over.

Deacon is on the right track. One of the major flaws with Welfare is that we have a situation where people make LESS money by working! Between transportation, daycare and other expenses, many people literally can't afford to work!

I think that Welfare and state Departments of Labor should be merged. I think that more opportunities for education and career training should be afforded to people on Welfare so they can find jobs that actually pay decent money.

Once such programs are in place and people who want to go to school, people who want to get good jobs and keep them can do so, then it'll be easier to spot those abusing the system(which I believe are a slim minority) and remove them from it.

My mother was on Welfare after my father left her without warning. She refused to stay on it. She took a paycut to work. My aunt and grandmother helped watch me and my sister. I ate a lot of peanut butter and oatmeal growing up.

Now, she owns her own house, has a college degree and a very good job. But not everyone is as fortunate as my mother. Not everyone has caring family members and the willpower to earn less by working. My mother was a very proud woman. The trap of Welfare couldn't hold her. But can we expect everyone to be like her?

I had a very similar situation, except I had both parents. I was born when they were 17, and Mac and Cheese was most of my meals growing up. They worked their asses off, and now are doing pretty well for themselves. One thing I think we need to figure out is a way to penalize people for having more children while they are on welfare. If you can't afford one, why keep having more?

Everything you have mentioned is already in effect; privatization, state
funding, local funding, and reform changes have been in place for decades.

The American welfare system is terrible, as most programs for welfare are
run by State & County organizations that have very little funding - not
everyone recieves housing benefits, healthcare, or foodstamps.

Many people on welfare seek out programs to help them pay for college,
which pays for their books and and a small percentage of their fees, but
it usually leads to unpaid college tuitions - even under state schooling.

Other assistance programs do come from "companies"; electric & gas,
or water & sewage have minor benefits for low-income families but it
only sounds "good" on paper as many end up paying these companies
more money at the end of the year.

The best privatization help comes with counceling & psychiatric centers
that are funded through donations by the wealthy.

Reform.

Take away incentives to stay on it.

Put in a time limit, after which if you cannot demonstrate that you are truly attempting to find a job/have found one - you get cut off. (If your job does not pay enough, you stay on, but continue to attempt to find a better job.

Fund training programs and programs that help welfare recipients find a job. If the recipient refuses these programs and does not find a job on their own in the allotted time, kick them off it.

(Obviously, the job rules would not apply to someone *unable* to work)

Clinton already instituted the reforms you propose. Any further actions along these lines would mean abandoning the sick and homeless to die. No that's not an exaggeration. Where will you live, or get health care, if (let's say through no fault of your own) you have no income or resources?

Edit: Uhh.. wait a second. the thread changed abit....

Privatize it and let companies handle it.
yeah.. becase you know we never had to instute laws to prevent companies from underpaying and overworking people, they are nice wholesome trustworthy entities looking out for the little guy

Clinton already instituted the reforms you propose. Any further actions along these lines would mean abandoning the sick and homeless to die. No that's not an exaggeration. Where will you live, or get health care, if (let's say through no fault of your own) you have no income or resources?
Cause you know no one could possibly do better then Clinton at reforming :p (not personally digging on him but no person is infallible or can do everything he/she was intending too specially in the political system)

Um. Guys. Welfare is the least of the problems that the American government is currently facing... With the current massive budget deficit and our growing national debt, welfare becomes relatively unimportant.

Anyways, the fact of the matter is, neither the American nor state governments can properly handle the welfare system. The majority of the states along with the federal government are running massive budget deficits. The only way welfare can continue is if it is privatized.

Um. Guys. Welfare is the least of the problems that the American government is currently facing... With the current massive budget deficit and our growing national debt, welfare becomes relatively unimportant.

Anyways, the fact of the matter is, neither the American nor state governments can properly handle the welfare system. The majority of the states along with the federal government are running massive budget deficits. The only way welfare can continue is if it is privatized.

majority of the states are borrowing from the federal government, but we remember, bush and the fellow morons are in charge, if you tax less and spend more (on ballistic missiles) you will make money!

One thing I think we need to figure out is a way to penalize people for having more children while they are on welfare. If you can't afford one, why keep having more? A good argument for mandatory sterilization of all recipients (including children of an age to procreate) - aim for reversible methods if so desired. I know a few individuals who do nothing but try to pop out another kid every year or so just to keep that fat welfare check coming in. People like this need to be "cleansed". I'm not telling you you can't have sex. Have all the sex you like - hell, make it your primary source of income if you wish - but the state will not pay for your mistakes. Anyone having another child once they are already on the 'payroll' should be summarily cut off for life.

A good argument for mandatory sterilization of all recipients (including children of an age to procreate) - aim for reversible methods if so desired. I know a few individuals who do nothing but try to pop out another kid every year or so just to keep that fat welfare check coming in. People like this need to be "cleansed". I'm not telling you you can't have sex. Have all the sex you like - hell, make it your primary source of income if you wish - but the state will not pay for your mistakes. Anyone having another child once they are already on the 'payroll' should be summarily cut off for life.

For the record, welfare recipients no longer get any extra money for children they have while *on* welfare.

sorry about the limited choices, it was before school when I made this. :headbang:

majority of the states are borrowing from the federal government, but we remember, bush and the fellow morons are in charge, if you tax less and spend more (on ballistic missiles) you will make money!
Lol any missile that follows a ballistic path is a ballistic missile

You talking about model rockets (with their powered accent and non powered decent …) :p

A good argument for mandatory sterilization of all recipients (including children of an age to procreate) - aim for reversible methods if so desired. I know a few individuals who do nothing but try to pop out another kid every year or so just to keep that fat welfare check coming in. People like this need to be "cleansed". I'm not telling you you can't have sex. Have all the sex you like - hell, make it your primary source of income if you wish - but the state will not pay for your mistakes. Anyone having another child once they are already on the 'payroll' should be summarily cut off for life.
your aquaintences must be morons, not only do you not get more money for having more children, having more children does not extend the time you are allowed to be ON welfare. so they are making babies to collect non existant money. thats pretty stupid.

Well, on the off chance that somebody here knows, or is willing to look it up;

What is the total annual welfare budget?
What is the total number of welfare recipients?

Divide the budget by the number of people. Divide that by 52 (weeks).
Fire everybody in the social service sector of government, and mail weekly checks out directly, no questions asked but end of year income earnings to requalify (or not) for the following year.

If you blow the money on booze, drugs, or gambling, well, tough luck... die.

Bring back jobs from over seas, make it illegal to ship certain jobs overseas, let the people work there, if there is no work, and I mean no work, not just they're lazy, they get funding, if they dont feel like working they get NO funding, none, zippo, instead they are put in a big ugly building with all the other lazy slums, and given enough food to live, nothing else, no luxeries. That way anybody that can work will work, anyone who is lazy and doesnt work even though there are jobs available will get encouraged to work, or suffer the consequenses, and anybody who cant work such as is disabled or there are no jobs will get money. You can put the remaining money into education to make the south smart again!!!

Significant reforms, to the point where it's nearly abolished.

Basically it would be permitted for a limited amount of time (2 years at most, although for special circumstances such as a refugee who is still in school could maybe apply for an extension).

Regular drug tests...

Etc. etc.

Private charities should do most of the work, and the government can take in those few others.

Great Depression. Best thing that ever happened to the US. All the unemployed people where rounded up said "hey you guys gonna die of starvation? Like hell you are! You're gonna join massive 'temp' agencies and be put to work to earn some cash".

I say we round up everyone who's umeployed and put them into one gaint temp worker organisation run by the governemnet of the country "Whats that? A school needs a English subsitute? Well it just so happens we have an umeployed person with an english degree! Hello construction company? Your workers are striking? WE'll send 10000 temps round right away." etc etc etc