NationStates Jolt Archive


Just finished reading Orwell's 1984

The Psyker
30-11-2004, 07:04
and I was struck by the number of similarities to the world to day. This is probably what makes it a classic, but I was truly struck by the vast connections between many of the themes of that book, ecspecialy "doublethink", and the currentworld situation. Any way I just wanted to see what simmilarities others saw between this book and the modern world.
Andaluciae
30-11-2004, 07:10
People have constantly seen similarities betweent the real world and dystopias like 1984. That's because the book has realistic elements. The world is nowhere near as bad as it is in the book. I really don't see the doublespeak difference, but I see other differences, espescially the description of the world in Goldstein's book (not that it was really by Goldstein...)
Noraniastan
30-11-2004, 07:10
It's a warning.

Read Fahrenheit 451. One of the best books ever.
The Psyker
30-11-2004, 07:14
Yes it is a warning a rather frightning one. As for doublespeak I see similarities in our claims to be fighting terrorism and Islamic fundalmentalism, while turning a blind eye to things such as Guantomeno and Abu Grahd(sp) and the fact that many antaliyst belive our current election was one due to the votes of christian fundalmentalists.
Domdomdom
30-11-2004, 07:15
is it good? worth a read?
New Granada
30-11-2004, 07:15
I read it for the first time about six or seven years ago.

It has been amazing how much the bush administration has evolved to be similar to the 1984 administration.
Mauiwowee
30-11-2004, 07:17
and I was struck by the number of similarities to the world to day. This is probably what makes it a classic, but I was truly struck by the vast connections between many of the themes of that book, ecspecialy "doublethink", and the currentworld situation. Any way I just wanted to see what simmilarities others saw between this book and the modern world.

I see attempts to re-write history everywhere as well as attempts to ensure that "I Love Big Brother" (i.e. the government) no matter who big brother is.

I would suggest that if you enjoyed 1984 that you make it a point to read "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. In this vein, "Animal Farm" (also by Orwell) and "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller, "The Tin Drum" by Gunter Grass and "Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut are also must reads. They all deal with varying degrees of political and social constructs and how they attempt to control they people they have power over.
Andaluciae
30-11-2004, 07:17
is it good? worth a read?
Very good, just make sure you go into reading it pretty happy...
Iivanra
30-11-2004, 07:22
1984 is now when someone can post something in an online journal about the president and have the Secret Service show up on their doorstep the next day.
Of the Abyss
30-11-2004, 07:23
It was a great book
Natashagrad
30-11-2004, 07:26
I would suggest that if you enjoyed 1984 that you make it a point to read "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. In this vein, "Animal Farm" (also by Orwell) and "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller, "The Tin Drum" by Gunter Grass and "Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut are also must reads. They all deal with varying degrees of political and social constructs and how they attempt to control they people they have power over.

Some of my favourite books! Also, read A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess if you want to see the subtle way that language controls minds (like newspeak, a bit, which we know in our world as the tendency for our speech to follow television and the movies). Another interesting read for those of you who love 1984 (it's even mentioned in the front of one of the editions of Animal Farm) is a book called Darkness at Noon. It's by a man named Arthur Koestler who was part of the CPSU. Unfortunately, it's out of print so you'll have to search the library.
Natashagrad
30-11-2004, 07:28
1984 is now when someone can post something in an online journal about the president and have the Secret Service show up on their doorstep the next day.

It probably didn't happen. I've posted plenty that is rather worse than just President-bashing, and nothing has ever happened to me. I do hope that things like that start happening. Then it might look like the government is doing SOMETHING within its own country.
New Granada
30-11-2004, 07:30
Catch 22 and Cats Cradle are among my favorites.

Well, anything by Kurt Vonnegut (america's greatest living author, in my opinion) is among my favorites :)
The Psyker
30-11-2004, 07:34
I see attempts to re-write history everywhere as well as attempts to ensure that "I Love Big Brother" (i.e. the government) no matter who big brother is.

I would suggest that if you enjoyed 1984 that you make it a point to read "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. In this vein, "Animal Farm" (also by Orwell) and "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller, "The Tin Drum" by Gunter Grass and "Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut are also must reads. They all deal with varying degrees of political and social constructs and how they attempt to control they people they have power over.
Actualy I have Brave New World sitting right in front of me now its next on my list to read. Catch-22 is suppose to be the first of the magor distopia books isn't it if memory serves. Any way for a more optimistic view on the future I would recomened Robert Heinleins "For us the living" it was the first book he wrote, but it was only published a few years ago, while the story is a little week it does put forward some interesting, at least in my opinion, theories on economics and goverment.
Iivanra
30-11-2004, 07:38
It probably didn't happen. I've posted plenty that is rather worse than just President-bashing, and nothing has ever happened to me. I do hope that things like that start happening. Then it might look like the government is doing SOMETHING within its own country.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/anniesj/331112.html
New Granada
30-11-2004, 07:42
Actualy I have Brave New World sitting right in front of me now its next on my list to read. Catch-22 is suppose to be the first of the magor distopia books isn't it if memory serves. Any way for a more optimistic view on the future I would recomened Robert Heinleins "For us the living" it was the first book he wrote, but it was only published a few years ago, while the story is a little week it does put forward some interesting, at least in my opinion, theories on economics and goverment.


1984 and brave new world are both significantly older than catch-22 I believe
The Psyker
30-11-2004, 07:51
Alright like I said it was from memory. I went back and looked it up and the book I'm thinking of was Iron Heel Jack London and the third book of the "distopia" trilogy of 1984 Brave New World that I was also trying to remeber is We by Zamyatin. The afterword is actualy pretty interesting, I read a copy of my dad's from '61, it talkes about how those who looked at it as only a criticism of communist china and russia are blinded by the "doublethink" of our own society in regards to some of the distasteful things we did as participants in the Cold War.
Dobbs Town
30-11-2004, 07:54
Catch 22 and Cats Cradle are among my favorites.

Well, anything by Kurt Vonnegut (america's greatest living author, in my opinion) is among my favorites :)

I wouldn't disagree even if I felt moved to do so, NG. You opinion in this regard is shared. BTW, Kurt Vonnegut is also a Unitarian...

doubleplus good, eh comrade?
The Psyker
30-11-2004, 07:55
I wouldn't disagree even if I felt moved to do so, NG. You opinion in this regard is shared. BTW, Kurt Vonnegut is also a Unitarian...

doubleplus good, eh comrade?
lol :D nice refrence
New Granada
30-11-2004, 08:34
I wouldn't disagree even if I felt moved to do so, NG. You opinion in this regard is shared. BTW, Kurt Vonnegut is also a Unitarian...

doubleplus good, eh comrade?


Kurt Vonnegut is, and always has been, a Bokononist ;)
Los Banditos
30-11-2004, 09:19
and I was struck by the number of similarities to the world to day. This is probably what makes it a classic, but I was truly struck by the vast connections between many of the themes of that book, ecspecialy "doublethink", and the currentworld situation. Any way I just wanted to see what simmilarities others saw between this book and the modern world.

One of the similarities I see is the creation of the EU. Though there was not a EU in the book, one of the two empires that Oceania fought was made up of all of Europe(excluding England).
Torching Witches
30-11-2004, 09:50
It's a warning.

Read Fahrenheit 451. One of the best books ever.

Or, if you're too lazy, watch the film. While you're at it watch Logan's Run.
Torching Witches
30-11-2004, 09:51
One of the similarities I see is the creation of the EU. Though there was not a EU in the book, one of the two empires that Oceania fought was made up of all of Europe(excluding England).

Um, including England (you mean Britain) actually. That's where the book is set, except it's called Airstrip One.
Los Banditos
30-11-2004, 09:53
Um, including England (you mean Britain) actually. That's where the book is set, except it's called Airstrip One.

I thought Britain was part of Oceania which was made up of North America and Britain. I could be wrong, it has been a couple of years since I read it.
Pantylvania
30-11-2004, 09:56
Um, including England (you mean Britain) actually. That's where the book is set, except it's called Airstrip One.Um, Eurasia did not include Britain. Britain was part of Oceania
Dobbs Town
30-11-2004, 10:00
Yeah...Britain, the Americas, and Australia were all 'Oceania'...Europe and Russia were Eurasia, and China, India, Indonesia, etc. were EastAsia.

Where did Africa fit in? I can't remember...
Los Banditos
30-11-2004, 10:01
Yeah...England, the Americas, and Australia were all 'Oceania'...Europe and Russia were Eurasia, and China, India, Indonesia, etc. were EastAsia.

Where did Africa fit in? I can't remember...

I think it was just land that the three empires fought over.
Torching Witches
30-11-2004, 10:01
Um, Eurasia did not include Britain. Britain was part of Oceania

Whoops! It's a while since I read it too.

They all fought over scraps of land in the Middle East, didn't they?
Anthil
30-11-2004, 10:04
;) It's a warning.

Read Fahrenheit 451. One of the best books ever.

Or better still learn it by heart, just in case ...
Kazcaper
30-11-2004, 10:09
Some of my favourite books! Also, read A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess if you want to see the subtle way that language controls minds (like newspeak, a bit, which we know in our world as the tendency for our speech to follow television and the movies).
Agreed, and furthermore A Clockwork Orange deals with what levels of social control should be acceptable, similar to 1984, although the former does so in regard to 'rehabilitating' criminals. Both wonderful, and very thought-provoking novels.
Anthil
30-11-2004, 10:10
It probably didn't happen. I've posted plenty that is rather worse than just President-bashing, and nothing has ever happened to me. I do hope that things like that start happening. Then it might look like the government is doing SOMETHING within its own country.
Just take a look at this:
http://www.caedefensefund.org/
Natashagrad
30-11-2004, 23:51
Just because something is a .org, it doesn't mean that it's unbiased. Even in that story, I never found evidence that the government had done anything wrong. They expect people to look at these stories they dug up (or made up) from somewhere and read them in THEIR words. Of course, I could tell you the everpresent, hackneyed line: "Don't trust the media," but that would be silly because I think that's what has broken the nation apart. Everyone is told, simultaneously, to trust the media and NOT to trust the media. People want to trust something, so they decide that they are doing the "smart" thing and trusting alternative media. It's a vicious cycle.
Natashagrad
30-11-2004, 23:55
http://www.livejournal.com/users/anniesj/331112.html

And of COURSE we believe everything that someone posts on the internet. I bet many of you have used an entry in a blog as a reference for a paper. :D
Nordfjord
30-11-2004, 23:58
and I was struck by the number of similarities to the world to day. This is probably what makes it a classic, but I was truly struck by the vast connections between many of the themes of that book, ecspecialy "doublethink", and the currentworld situation. Any way I just wanted to see what simmilarities others saw between this book and the modern world.
Well, a friend pointed out that the USA's exactly like Airfield 1, or whatever that version of England was called. "We're at war, so give up your rights!". Problem is, the Conservatives all "have better things to do" than read the Patriot Act, listen to the Democrats and other opponents of Rumsfield and Bush, and see the other side... :(

Read Fahrenheit 451. One of the best books ever.
Yup.
Shizzleforizzleyo
01-12-2004, 00:03
It probably didn't happen. I've posted plenty that is rather worse than just President-bashing, and nothing has ever happened to me. I do hope that things like that start happening. Then it might look like the government is doing SOMETHING within its own country.


unless you specifically said you were gonna hurt/kill the president they probably won't..you're confusing the Secret Service with another SS.
EmoBuddy
01-12-2004, 00:24
Just posting to say that I have read that book 15 times. (Literally)
Presidency
01-12-2004, 00:27
Congratulations welcome to The Empire of Presidency!
Violets and Kitties
01-12-2004, 01:52
It probably didn't happen. I've posted plenty that is rather worse than just President-bashing, and nothing has ever happened to me. I do hope that things like that start happening. Then it might look like the government is doing SOMETHING within its own country.

Wow. Seems like the doublespeak has already started working on some people.... :rolleyes:

You can't limit liberty to protect freedom. Liberty=Freedom
Portu Cale
01-12-2004, 02:00
I WANT TO ASSASSINATE GEORGE WALKER BUSH.


Well, now if some American shows up on my doorstep, well know if the world is mad.
Bodies Without Organs
01-12-2004, 02:12
Alright like I said it was from memory. I went back and looked it up and the book I'm thinking of was Iron Heel Jack London and the third book of the "distopia" trilogy of 1984 Brave New World that I was also trying to remeber is We by Zamyatin. The afterword is actualy pretty interesting, I read a copy of my dad's from '61, it talkes about how those who looked at it as only a criticism of communist china and russia are blinded by the "doublethink" of our own society in regards to some of the distasteful things we did as participants in the Cold War.

Yay! Someone else who has actually read Zamyatin! We is the Ur-text from which all C20th western dystopian novels draw.


the Iron Heel is also pretty good stuff.
The Psyker
01-12-2004, 02:22
Yay! Someone else who has actually read Zamyatin! We is the Ur-text from which all C20th western dystopian novels draw.


the Iron Heel is also pretty good stuff.
Oh, I haven't readed yet I'd have to find it first. I just have a rather old copy of 1984(1961) that had an afterward that gave a little bit of history on dystopian books before going into an analysis of why claiming that 1984 was just aimed at Communist Russia and China was an example of "doublethink". An example it gave was our claiming to be fighting for the free world while at the same time overthrowing democraticaly elected left leaning govs. in South America and replacing them with militry dictatorships.
Bodies Without Organs
01-12-2004, 02:26
Oh, I haven't readed yet I'd have to find it first. I just have a rather old copy of 1984(1961) that had an afterward that gave a little bit of history on dystopian books before going into an analysis of why claiming that 1984 was just aimed at Communist Russia and China was an example of "doublethink". An example it gave was our claiming to be fighting for the free world while at the same time overthrowing democraticaly elected left leaning govs. in South America and replacing them with militry dictatorships.

Indeed: 1984 is at heart about the post-WWII austerity period in which it was written - the rationing, the blackouts, the control of information, the sexually repressive social mores, and so on - subtle hint, Orwell got the name my reversing the last two digits of the year in which he wrote the bulk of the novel. It is not specifically against either leftist or rightist politics, but instead against totalitarianism whatever its source.
Katganistan
01-12-2004, 02:42
There are many parallels to the world today in 1984 -- the telescreens (webcams/security cameras) is just one.
Bodies Without Organs
01-12-2004, 03:15
There are many parallels to the world today in 1984 -- the telescreens (webcams/security cameras) is just one.

uh-hu. Explain to me why at the start of the novel when Winston Smith returns to his home during a power blackout the screens continue to function, would you?
Defaultia
01-12-2004, 03:23
uh-hu. Explain to me why at the start of the novel when Winston Smith returns to his home during a power blackout the screens continue to function, would you?
Battery power, perhaps?
Katganistan
01-12-2004, 03:29
uh-hu. Explain to me why at the start of the novel when Winston Smith returns to his home during a power blackout the screens continue to function, would you?

For the same reason the phone lines still work in a blackout. ;)

Seriously, they talk about the electricity being cut in daylight hours -- it's not such a stretch to imagine that unnecessary power (to elevators, lights, etc.) was cut but the telescreens, which were necessary to spy on everyone 24/7/365, were powered on a different set of circuits.
Melenthias
01-12-2004, 03:32
If you think that that was a good book you should read Animal Farm. It is also by George Orwell and it is just a different version of 1984 excpt all of the people have animal personas. Try to find the similarities between that and 1984, it's really quite good.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bodies Without Organs
01-12-2004, 03:35
<snip>

Your keyboard appears to be malfunctioning, old chap.

Please don't break the frames....