NationStates Jolt Archive

Which presidents have been the most economically conservative? liberal?
Which presidents have been the most socially authoritarian? libertarian?
Which presidents have been the most corrupt?

Below are just some suggestions. I do not necessarily agree with them, so please don't flame me. Also realize that it is difficult to put recent presidents into proper historical perspective right now. Feel free to defend any one of the ones below if you believe that he has received an unjustified, damning label.

Conservatives...
William McKinley
Warren G. Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Ronald Reagan
George W. Bush

Liberals...
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S. Truman
Lyndon Johnson

Authoritarians...
John Adams
Abraham Lincoln
Woodrow Wilson
Richard Nixon
George W. Bush

Libertarians... a toughie...
Thomas Jefferson
Theodore Roosevelt

Corrupt...
Ulysses S. Grant
Warren G. Harding
Richard Nixon

Which presidents have been the most economically conservative? liberal?
Which presidents have been the most socially authoritarian? libertarian?
Which presidents have been the most corrupt?

Below are just some suggestions. I do not necessarily agree with them, so please don't flame me. Also realize that it is difficult to put recent presidents into proper historical perspective right now. Feel free to defend any one of the ones below if you believe that he has received an unjustified, damning label.

Conservatives...
William McKinley
Warren G. Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Ronald Reagan
George W. Bush

Liberals...
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S. Truman
Lyndon Johnson

Authoritarians...
John Adams
Abraham Lincoln
Woodrow Wilson
Richard Nixon
George W. Bush

Libertarians... a toughie...
Thomas Jefferson
Theodore Roosevelt

Corrupt...
Ulysses S. Grant
Warren G. Harding
Richard Nixon
Corrupt...
If you are going to categorize George Bush (pretty recent), how about William Jefferson Clinton as Corrupt?

Corrupt...
If you are going to categorize George Bush (pretty recent), how about William Jefferson Clinton as Corrupt?

I almost did...
He wasn't convicted in the Whitewater scandal, though.
I must admit, Whitewater seems very shady to me.

Pretty good list. After all, the vast majority of presidents were forgettable morons. I kind of object to Grant being on the corrupt list. He himself was not corrupt, but his staff was.

I kind of object to Grant being on the corrupt list. He himself was not corrupt, but his staff was.

But in a way, that means that Grant was corrupt. He could have stampede out the problem or have selected a different staff in the first place.

Corrupt...
If you are going to categorize George Bush (pretty recent), how about William Jefferson Clinton as Corrupt?

I'd put him as "do-nothing".

But in a way, that means that Grant was corrupt. He could have stampede out the problem or have selected a different staff in the first place.

Now that I think about it, the same logic could be used against Reagan for being so "oblivious" to the Iran-Contra Scandal.

But in a way, that means that Grant was corrupt. He could have stampede out the problem or have selected a different staff in the first place.
Grant was a good general, but an incompetent politician. He surrounded himself with crooks...not corrupt himself, just very, very incompetent.

the vast majority of presidents were forgettable morons.

This brings out a poignant truth. Millard Fillmore and Chester Arthur could have been the most corrupt of them all, and yet we did not study them enough at the time to notice.

I wouldn't call George W Bush a conservative, personally- I'd call him a neo-con.

This brings out a poignant truth. Millard Fillmore and Chester Arthur could have been the most corrupt of them all, and yet we did not study them enough at the time to notice.

I think it's a good thing we don't know crap about them. It means they didn't do anything to screw up. I think our best presidents are the ones who didn't do anything to attract attention to themselves, and just let the country run itself.

Despite George W. Bush's many clearly authoritarian actions, I certainly do not believe that he was the most authoritarian of them all. Has he ever ordered the National Guard to break up anti-war protesters? Has he turned away from the racial achievement gap in schools?

After all, the vast majority of presidents were forgettable morons.

"Once upon a time, there were too brothers. One went off to sea, and the other became vice president. Nothing was heard of either of them again."

I almost did...
He wasn't convicted in the Whitewater scandal, though.
I must admit, Whitewater seems very shady to me.
Actually, he was convicted of one of his scandals for perjury (Paula Jones, I think), and had to give up his law license for a certain number of years.

I think it's a good thing we don't know crap about them. It means they didn't do anything to screw up. I think our best presidents are the ones who didn't do anything to attract attention to themselves, and just let the country run itself.

Sometimes that can be for the worst. Millard Fillmore didn't actively stop slavery. Chester Arthur didn't actively support labor unions.

Actually, he was convicted of one of his scandals for perjury (Paula Jones, I think), and had to give up his law license for a certain number of years.

That's a perjury charge, which isn't really a show of corruption. I lie, so am I corrupt? Whitewater involves money exchange with the possible intent of avoiding campaign finance laws.

Chinagate give me nightmares from time to time, it is absolutely terrifying to think that an American President would sell out nuclear secrets to the Chinese and then lie about it 216 times (which coincidently is 6^3, or 6*6*6, I know weird) also look up Chinagate on Google to see how bad it really is

That's a perjury charge, which isn't really a show of corruption. I lie, so am I corrupt? Whitewater involves money exchange with the possible intent of avoiding campaign finance laws.
I lie, I am corrupt, perjury is double corrupt because with that you're under oath to tell the truth.

I lie, I am corrupt, perjury is double corrupt because with that you're under oath to tell the truth.

Hmm... I'll think on that.
It's probably just that my definition of corruption is different from yours. I think of corruption as power-hunger. Lying could just mean that you do not want to hurt someone's feelings.

or that it is no ones buisness.

I just realized I should have asked another question to balance the corruption question.

Which presidents have been the most honest?

I'd suggest most of the early presidents.

Which presidents have been the most economically conservative? liberal?
Which presidents have been the most socially authoritarian? libertarian?
Which presidents have been the most corrupt?

Below are just some suggestions. I do not necessarily agree with them, so please don't flame me. Also realize that it is difficult to put recent presidents into proper historical perspective right now. Feel free to defend any one of the ones below if you believe that he has received an unjustified, damning label.

Conservatives...
William McKinley
Warren G. Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Ronald Reagan
George W. Bush

Liberals...
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S. Truman
Lyndon Johnson

Authoritarians...
John Adams
Abraham Lincoln
Woodrow Wilson
Richard Nixon
George W. Bush

Libertarians... a toughie...
Thomas Jefferson
Theodore Roosevelt

Corrupt...
Ulysses S. Grant
Warren G. Harding
Richard Nixon
It should be noted that liberal/conservative weren't then what they are today. Back in the days of those men, socially, both parties were very similar. It was economics and structure of government that decided if a person was liberal or conservative as opposed to how they felt on social issues as well, like today.
It should also be noted that Grant and Harding weren't corrupt; their administrations and high-ranking officials were. Nixon was also a pretty solid leader up until Watergate. Under that criteria, you could consider Clinton corrupt due to Whitewater.
Teddy Roosevelt (R) was a great moderate leader on domestic issues, but on foreign policy he was so right-wing that many saw him as a jingoist. Ironically, he was considered a good leader and even the inspiration for his close relative, Franklin Roosevelt (D).

It should be noted that liberal/conservative weren't then what they are today. Back in the days of those men, socially, both parties were very similar. It was economics and structure of government that decided if a person was liberal or conservative as opposed to how they felt on social issues as well, like today.
It should also be noted that Grant and Harding weren't corrupt; their administrations and high-ranking officials were. Nixon was also a pretty solid leader up until Watergate. Under that criteria, you could consider Clinton corrupt due to Whitewater.
Teddy Roosevelt (R) was a great moderate leader on domestic issues, but on foreign policy he was so right-wing that many saw him as a jingoist. Ironically, he was considered a good leader and even the inspiration for his close relative, Franklin Roosevelt (D).

I agree with much of this.

Most people would say that Nixon was corrupt before Watergate. General historical concensus would say that he tried, for example, to cover up (at least initially) the most unpopular military actions in/around Vietnam so that his respectable image would not be tainted.

This brings out a poignant truth. Millard Fillmore and Chester Arthur could have been the most corrupt of them all, and yet we did not study them enough at the time to notice.

Every time I hear Chester Arthur mentioned, I think, "Come on. He wasn't really a President. You're making that one up."

You could pretty much put the last four under "Most Corrupt."

Now that I think about it, the same logic could be used against Reagan for being so "oblivious" to the Iran-Contra Scandal.

As it should.

Which presidents have been the most economically conservative? liberal?
Which presidents have been the most socially authoritarian? libertarian?
Which presidents have been the most corrupt?


I'll add my thoughts

Conservatives...
Calvin Coolidge -maybe
...
George W. Bush -not even close

Liberals... - depends what ;liberal' means
Yours:
Franklin D. Roosevelt -Germany had Hitler, Russia had Stalin, we had FDR
Harry S. Truman -dunno
Lyndon Johnson -if FDR was a liberal, so was Johnson
Mine:
I'd put guys like Jefferson on here, but that's a very different definition of 'liberal'

Authoritarians...
1. Abraham Lincoln
2. Franklin D. Roosevelt
3. Woodrow Wilson
4. George W. Bush
5. Richard Nixon
6. Lydon B. Johnson
7. Teddy Roosevelt <- the first neo-con (sort of)
8. everyone else, with maybe a few exceptions


Libertarians... a toughie... (no, it's really easy)
...


Corrupt...
*.*

I almost did...
He wasn't convicted in the Whitewater scandal, though.
I must admit, Whitewater seems very shady to me.

Yea, what kinds of strings did the Clinton's pull to lose money on that deal?

The problem with your list is the categories. Terms like liberal and conservative have changed through the decades. They have almost come to mean the opposite of what they did centuries earlier.

Also, there have been no true "authoritarian" presidents (come on, this is a constitutional democracy), although there have been presidents charcterized as "imperial" in that they expanded the power of the presidency. Andrew Jackson, Teddy Rossevelt, and FDR are three examples of such presidents.

Better characterizations would be:

effective vs. ineffective
caretaker vs. activist
isolationist vs. interventionist
civil libertaries vs. national security

I just realized I should have asked another question to balance the corruption question.

Which presidents have been the most honest?

I'd suggest most of the early presidents.

Only because you are more removed and less familiar with them. George Washinton was subjected to brutal public attacks, exceeding in virulence anything that would be tolerated to-day, and was accused of padding his expense account while president. People and politicians (not always the same thing) any no different than they ever were.

Thank you for dedicating a thread to the Empire of Presidency.

The most extream? Really, it's probably Reagan. Not everyone thinks of him because in this case, his extreams prooved to be the best possible thing for the nation. He led us to the greatest peacetime economic expansion in history and won the cold war.

The most extream? Really, it's probably Reagan. Not everyone thinks of him because in this case, his extreams prooved to be the best possible thing for the nation. He led us to the greatest peacetime economic expansion in history and won the cold war.

You might want to look at some of the other threads. Most NS General Forum users seem to agree that the USA did not win the Cold War but rather the USSR lost it.

The problem with your list is the categories. Terms like liberal and conservative have changed through the decades. They have almost come to mean the opposite of what they did centuries earlier.

Also, there have been no true "authoritarian" presidents (come on, this is a constitutional democracy), although there have been presidents charcterized as "imperial" in that they expanded the power of the presidency. Andrew Jackson, Teddy Rossevelt, and FDR are three examples of such presidents.

Better characterizations would be:

effective vs. ineffective
caretaker vs. activist
isolationist vs. interventionist
civil libertaries vs. national security

I left it very vague on purpose.

I also asked about who was the MOST characteristic of each of these qualities. Even though none of them has been purely authoritarian because each had to be elected, many presidents have valued authoritarianism more than libertarianism.

Chester Arthur

The politics we like.

The muttonchops we NEED!

You might want to look at some of the other threads. Most NS General Forum users seem to agree that the USA did not win the Cold War but rather the USSR lost it.
How is this different?

How is this different?
If you haven't noticed, most non-americans on these boards can't admit that America was actually essential in winning anything.

Most fiscally conservative-Reagan
Most fiscally liberal-FDR (though at a time when it was necessary)
Most socially conservative-Reagan
Most socially liberal-LBJ? Either he or Truman, probably
Most corrupt-Harding/Nixon/Reagan/
Best ever-Washington/Jefferson/Jackson/Lincoln/Roosevelt X2/Wilson/FDR/Truman/JFK/Clinton

If you haven't noticed, most non-americans on these boards can't admit that America was actually essential in winning anything.
I'm American, and I believe that it was mostly because of the Soviet Union that the Soviet Union collapsed. I don't believe any American presidents significantly sped up the process of its collapse.

Most fiscally conservative-Reagan
Most fiscally liberal-FDR (though at a time when it was necessary)
Most socially conservative-Reagan
Most socially liberal-LBJ? Either he or Truman, probably
Most corrupt-Harding/Nixon/Reagan/
Best ever-Washington/Jefferson/Jackson/Lincoln/Roosevelt X2/Wilson/FDR/Truman/JFK/Clinton

Best ever list...
I hope you're kidding with some of those...

Let's study Jackson as an example because he's an easy one to refute. Sure, he was a man of the people, especially of white men. It was his administration that changed the native American treaties so that many were moved westward by force. He defended slavery fully but also a strong national system which nearly threw South Carolina into secession. His policy of requiring land transactions to be made using specie caused a banking crisis that led to an economic depression. Not everything he did was wrong, and I admit I am not discussing his better policies, but I definitely would not consider him to be among the best.

Let's study Lincoln as another example because he's much more difficult to refute. Most people remember him as the man who kept the union together, strengthened industries, and - of course - freed the slaves. His assassination carried him to martyrdom. Few people, however, remember his controvertial (and quite frankly unconstitutional) policies. Did you know that he detained those who avoided the draft and suspended the Constitutionally guaranteed writ of habeas corpus for them?

Most fiscally conservative-Reagan
You could hardly be more wrong.


spending (http://www.truthandpolitics.org/outlays-per-gdp.php)
decicit (http://www.uuforum.org/Images/deficit.gif)
debt (http://zfacts.com/p/318.html)

Everyone forgets Eisenhower. He was rather authoritarian. Deploying federal troops to stand off against the arkansas national guard when the civil rights moment early started.

Everyone forgets Eisenhower. He was rather authoritarian. Deploying federal troops to stand off against the arkansas national guard when the civil rights moment early started.

Actually, I thought about him for a moment, but then I decided not to include him. Yes, deploying the troops was authoritarian. But the troops were used to defend the more libertarian idea of racial equality in schools, an idea with which he did not really agree, either. He used an authoritarian method to defend a libertarian principle.