NationStates Jolt Archive

Sooo I saw a newsclip that states that the entire canadian surplus is from alberta. Alberta supplies some 9 billion more than it gets back from the federal government. Instead of building a national day care system, Lets start rebuilding out bloody military dammit...

ya

but look at the problems with social and health care that alberta has

they run a way more conservative style government than the remainder of canada

they have the highest infant mortality rate in canada. ALBERTA, THE RICHEST PROVINCE, has the longest waits for medical care.

its a trade really, im happy to not go broke from doctors bills

Thats why a federal system with a stronger local level is good, in my opinion. People can't vote themselves into your pocketbook as much.

Mm... Alberta may be the richest now or whatever, but I do believe that back in the day Nova Scotia was one of the big money makers, and helped Alberta get on its feet. Don't quote me on that though, it's something I idly picked up in History.

lol

its a telltale sign of Alberta politics when Ralph Klien can get piss drunk, walk into a food bank, yell at the homeless people and tell them to "get a job you bums", then throw a handful of change onto the floor, walk out and get re-elected with some stupid percent

ya

but look at the problems with social and health care that alberta has

they run a way more conservative style government than the remainder of canada

they have the highest infant mortality rate in canada. ALBERTA, THE RICHEST PROVINCE, has the longest waits for medical care.

its a trade really, im happy to not go broke from doctors bills


Ok where does it say that? Give me a quote, a recent one, then i would believe it..

Sooo I saw a newsclip that states that the entire canadian surplus is from alberta. Alberta supplies some 9 billion more than it gets back from the federal government. Instead of building a national day care system, Lets start rebuilding out bloody military dammit...
so how would you expend your money....
tanks?, planes?, submarines? choppers?...nukes? all of the above?

Well they already have bought some decent helicopters but we need to replace our old F18s, we need some decent transport planes, we need attack helicopters, a few small aircraft carriers, not not USS enterprise type ships but smallish one that could support some harrier type aircraft. maybe some light tanks small enough to be transported by our transport aircraft etc etc etc etc, its a big list.

... a few small aircraft carriers, not not USS enterprise type ships but smallish one that could support some harrier type aircraft. maybe some light tanks small enough to be transported by our transport aircraft etc etc etc etc, its a big list.and who could Alberta beat with all those carriers? How big and powerful do you want the Alberta Army to be?

big enough to overpower the rest of Canada?
or big enough to defeat Turkey?
or maybe big enough to buttkick Pakistan?
what about Mexico?
Surely you are not thinking France or China...are you silly? :D

and who could Alberta beat with all those carriers? How big and powerful do you want the Alberta Army to be?

big enough to overpower the rest of Canada?
or big enough to defeat Turkey?
or maybe big enough to buttkick Pakistan?
what about Mexico?
Surely you are not thinking France or China...are you silly? :D


I am talking about the canadian army knucklehead, alberta is land locked or last i heard it was... :rolleyes:

I so hope that Alberta seperates from Canada. I am against succession for Quebec since the Quebec people have contributed so much to Canadian society but Alberta is no good. I would just move to Alberta from my cozy Ontario to be able to vote 'yes' for the succession of Alberta. ;)

Secondly, BUY MORE MILITARY GARBAGE? That's so stupid. We don't need any more tanks, aircraft, etc. We aren't here to go to war. We need to spend more on the people not the military. We need to upgrade our health care system, get those stupid private medical providers out of business, and get more social welfare programs into place.

I so hope that Alberta seperates from Canada. I am against succession for Quebec since the Quebec people have contributed so much to Canadian society but Alberta is no good. I would just move to Alberta from my cozy Ontario to be able to vote 'yes' for the succession of Alberta. ;)

Secondly, BUY MORE MILITARY GARBAGE? That's so stupid. We don't need any more tanks, aircraft, etc. We aren't here to go to war. We need to spend more on the people not the military. We need to upgrade our health care system, get those stupid private medical providers out of business, and get more social welfare programs into place.



U mmm i never said anything about going to war. We do this to
a) Inhance our world standing, because we actually have a military to back up what we say
b) Support NATO
c) Have the troops + gear to actually do some peacekeeping.


WE have the money to rebuild our military and retain our public heath care system, although it does need a few changes.

I mean you do realize that alberta puts 20 billion in taxes, thats more than BC + sask combined, in 10 years we will put more money than all of quebec into canada.

Or perhaps we could jsut bomb that shithole burb of toronto that you are in

I am talking about the canadian army knucklehead, alberta is land locked or last i heard it was... :rolleyes:Well with a big enough Army..alberta could "annex" a territory up north...Dont chicken out on me now...I like you better when you are showing your cojones (My gun is Bigger than yours stuff)...Bring it on... :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

Well with a big enough Army..alberta could "annex" a territory up north...Dont chicken out on me now...I like better when you are showing your cojones...Bring it on... :mp5: :sniper: :mp5:



Riiiight stick with butt fuck kansas or where ever your from...

Ok where does it say that? Give me a quote, a recent one, then i would believe it..

Honestly, I just heard one of the opposition parties in the recent alberta election talk about kleins record on health care

if its just political jargon, whatever, alberta doesnt matter enough to me to worry over facts

Riiiight stick with butt fuck kansas or where ever your from...ahhh ... you want a big Army...To butt fuck the Kansas National Guard?

Blah your trolling is indicative of a butt fucking kansas national guardsman.
:fluffle:

Silly debate.

Whole world knows Canada is carried by the USA. :D

Blah your trolling is indicative of a butt fucking kansas national guardsman.
:fluffle:
I m just trying to figure why do you (or Alberta or Canada) need Carriers, harriers,tanks, transport aircraft etc etc etc etc, "a big list" ...I mean I know is Christmas and stuff...but trust me: Santa cannot afford it. :cool:

Alberta was tied for third highest (http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/health21a.htm) in infant morality rate of the provinces as of 2001. That seems to be the best Internet (!!) can do.

U mmm i never said anything about going to war. We do this to
a) Inhance our world standing, because we actually have a military to back up what we say
b) Support NATO
c) Have the troops + gear to actually do some peacekeeping.


WE have the money to rebuild our military and retain our public heath care system, although it does need a few changes.

I mean you do realize that alberta puts 20 billion in taxes, thats more than BC + sask combined, in 10 years we will put more money than all of quebec into canada.

Or perhaps we could jsut bomb that shithole burb of toronto that you are in

1) We obviously need to enhance our educational system if you think that enhance is spelled with an "I".
2) We shouldn't be in NATO in the first place. It only supports capitalist aggression.
3) Peacekeeping? I don't see anywhere we need to be peacekeeping and I don't see anything happening in the foreseeable future.

Now, perhaps you should go join your stupid little neo-Conservative buddies in Texas? Go succeed and join the US. I'm sure they will take ya'll since they need troops for Iraq.

Whole world knows Canada is carried by the USA. :DIf that is true...Why didnt the US "carrie" Canada to the Iraq war?

1) We obviously need to enhance our educational system if you think that enhance is spelled with an "I".
2) We shouldn't be in NATO in the first place. It only supports capitalist aggression.
3) Peacekeeping? I don't see anywhere we need to be peacekeeping and I don't see anything happening in the foreseeable future.

Now, perhaps you should go join your stupid little neo-Conservative buddies in Texas? Go succeed and join red neck land (sorry to all of you REAL leftist Americans, though.)

Military spending overrides public spending.

1. Canada has a fine educational system as is and I don't think I would spend the money there.

2. Ok, I can see now that you are an extreme liberal. And for the record NATO doesn't support Capitalist Agression it was created to stop Communist Aggression.

3. Maybe you should help out your best ally and neighbor the US in its conflicts?


Now, perhaps you should go join your stupid little neo-Conservative buddies in Texas? Go succeed and join red neck land (sorry to all of you REAL leftist Americans, though.)

Wow, maybe you were right. If your Canadian education system helped to produce a comment like this maybe you should spend more...

So what if he's conservative anyway? I didn't seem him complaining about you being a liberal? Show some maturity please.

1. Canada has a fine educational system as is and I don't think I would spend the money there.

2. Ok, I can see now that you are an extreme liberal. And for the record NATO doesn't support Capitolist....I would agree with number 1...If you just quit spelling "capitolist" and "Inhance"....please?

I would agree with number 1...If you just quit spelling "capitolist" and "Inhance"....please?

Inhance? You mean "enhance"?

What are you talking about?

Military spending overrides public spending.

1. Canada has a fine educational system as is and I don't think I would spend the money there.

2. Ok, I can see now that you are an extreme liberal. And for the record NATO doesn't support Capitalist Agression it was created to stop Communist Aggression.

3. Maybe you should help out your best ally and neighbor the US in its conflicts?

Military spending *doesn't* override public spending. First the people then the military.

1. Canada does have a fine educational system but it can be improved. It could use more money, however.

2. I'm a Socialist and yes, NATO does support capitalist aggression. The Russians were afraid of the US as the US was afraid of it. Neither side wanted to start a war that could lead to a nuclear conflict.

3. "Best ally"? ha. The majority of Americans I know make fun of Canada and the US media (such as Fox News) continue to berate Canada. What kind of ally is that?


Wow, maybe you were right. If your Canadian education system helped to produce a comment like this maybe you should spend more...

So what if he's conservative anyway? I didn't seem him complaining about you being a liberal? Show some maturity please.

I only said those things because he said, and I quote:

Or perhaps we could jsut bomb that shithole burb of toronto that you are in

more money for education, maybe...

so....What would I do if I was in charge(in Canada)?

Would I buy carrier$$ and Tank$$?
never!

would I xpend more $$$$ in SocialCare or healthcare?
I dont think so.

I would pay debt and reduce Taxes...And I would allow any Province to separate..If they win a referendum.

Do Alberta or Quebec want to break free?...do they? really?
I would kiss em goodbye...Like the Checz did.

Sooo I saw a newsclip that states that the entire canadian surplus is from alberta. Alberta supplies some 9 billion more than it gets back from the federal government. Instead of building a national day care system, Lets start rebuilding out bloody military dammit...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/connecticut/
Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures: Connecticut Is a Donor State

Connecticut taxpayers receive less federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid compared to the average state.
Per dollar of Federal tax collected in 2002, Connecticut citizens received approximately $0.65 in the way of federal spending.
This ranks the state 2nd lowest nationally and represents a slight fall from 1992 when Connecticut received $0.68 per dollar of taxes in federal spending (2nd lowest).
Neighboring states and the federal spending received per dollar of federal taxes collected were: New York ($0.85), Massachusetts ($0.75), New Hampshire ($0.66), Vermont ($1.13) and Rhode Island ($1.08).

Solidarity, brother. Life sucks for us!!

You know all you people who think it's a waste for money to be spent on military, I'd absolutely love to see if you'd take the same stance if America withdrew all military support for Canada...

You know all you people who think it's a waste for money to be spent on military, I'd absolutely love to see if you'd take the same stance if America withdrew all military support for Canada...

And what do you think would happen? Will Russia invade Canada from their Siberian military bases? :p

You know all you people who think it's a waste for money to be spent on military, I'd absolutely love to see if you'd take the same stance if America withdrew all military support for Canada...and Canada need to defend from an Iraqi Invasion? or maybe a Mexican army can overrun Canada borders? :D
Dude... take alook at the World map...Canada has no enemies

Sooo I saw a newsclip that states that the entire canadian surplus is from alberta. Alberta supplies some 9 billion more than it gets back from the federal government. Instead of building a national day care system, Lets start rebuilding out bloody military dammit...

Well, how about we put it against the national debt. The fact is that 33 cents out of every dollar go towards paying the interest required just to carry that debt. Once the national debt is gone taxes will go town by 33%. Isn't that something we should invest in ?

and Canada need to defend from an Iraqi Invasion? or maybe a Mexican army can overrun Canada borders? :D
Dude... take alook at the World map...Canada has no enemies

Really. So as a Canadian, you're fine with what's going on in Darfur?
Or, even more close to home, a 9/11 attack on the MN tower would be okay?

Don't think for a minute that if the US were suddenly gone that you'd not be a target...

Well, how about we put it against the national debt. The fact is that 33 cents out of every dollar go towards paying the interest required just to carry that debt. Once the national debt is gone taxes will go town by 33%. Isn't that something we should invest in ?
Whoa, people. The money is Alberta's surplus, not Canada's. The fed's don't get a cent.

Alberta has paid off her debt and eliminated her deficit. I seriously doubt the money go will anywhere but to secure the future of Albertans.

Really. So as a Canadian, you're fine with what's going on in Darfur?
Or, even more close to home, a 9/11 attack on the MN tower would be okay?

Don't think for a minute that if the US were suddenly gone that you'd not be a target...

Alot of the terrorists hate the western culture. That's not only America. Besides, if we ever get the fuck out of israel, the psychos in the middle east will need to find another important reason to hate us. Might as well be western culture.

Canada has no enemies because they do not make frequent use of their military. Look at Costa Rica. That country has NO military (absolutely none, it doesn't even exist). How many enemies do they have? Not many. The US has many enemies because it projects its power often, sometimes for better sometimes for worse. And this leads to a need for a larger military. Canada does not project its power much, and so makes few enemies. Therefore, military needs are much smaller.

To whoever said that Canada would be a target if the US didn't exist: That statement, whether true or not, is irrelevant. Let's be realistic, here. The US DOES exist, and so will continue to draw the most criticism as it continues to have very active foreign policy. No one will hate Canada while the US is around as we know it. As I've said before, Canada has no real enemies. Thus, an enormous military buildup would be a great waste of money that could be better spent on internal affairs, such as paying off the national debt, as someone said earlier.

It's nice to see that us 'South o'f the border' types aren't the only ones witha neocon problem...

I don't understand why anyone would seriously consider secession from Canada. We are Canadian! I was born and raised in Alberta and I'm proud of it. It's a great place to live and it's definitely rich by Canadian standards. Unfortunately, it's based on the gas taxes and the debt reduction policies of Ralph Klein. Which means that it will disappear sooner or later, but for now since the debt is officially 'gone,' our surplus will be put towards better services or investments. But we don't carry Canada and I doubt we pay more taxes (total) than Ottawa. So what if we pay more per person? The rich are taxed more to promote better income equality? Right?

Whoa, people. The money is Alberta's surplus, not Canada's. The fed's don't get a cent.

Alberta has paid off her debt and eliminated her deficit. I seriously doubt the money go will anywhere but to secure the future of Albertans.

WELL SEEING AS IT IS A FEDERAL SURPLUS, YOU ARE AS WRONG AS IT GETS. ALBERTAINS HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR PLACE IN CANADA....4TH PRIORITY. TO BAD THEIR NOT ONTARIO :D

Markreich, that last Bin Laden tape that was released stated specifically that countries who haven't had any role in the goings-on in Iraq need not fear terror cells, or attacks. Canada is at least somewhat safer than America, then.

Anyway, our cities are very cosmopolitan places, which I believe also works in our favour - everybody on the planet, it seems, has family or friends in Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver. And nobody wants to blow up their friends and family, do they? Heh.

Multiculturalism - our greatest line of defence! Break out the steel drums and bowls of kimchi all 'round! Okay, launch those dragon boats and kayaks! Poutine, anybody?

Aieeee!

Alot of the terrorists hate the western culture. That's not only America. Besides, if we ever get the fuck out of israel, the psychos in the middle east will need to find another important reason to hate us. Might as well be western culture.

That's about the size of it... the terrorists are not tolerant, unlike the vast majority of Westerners.

Markreich, that last Bin Laden tape that was released stated specifically that countries who haven't had any role in the goings-on in Iraq need not fear terror cells, or attacks. Canada is at least somewhat safer than America, then.

Anyway, our cities are very cosmopolitan places, which I believe also works in our favour - everybody on the planet, it seems, has family or friends in Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver. And nobody wants to blow up their friends and family, do they? Heh.

Multiculturalism - our greatest line of defence! Break out the steel drums and bowls of kimchi all 'round! Okay, launch those dragon boats and kayaks! Poutine, anybody?

Aieeee!

I've heard that before. Hitler, 1938 anyone?
France, England, you have nothing to worry about. Just let me have the Sudetenland and everyone will be happy.

As opposed to having friends and family in New York City??

If you really believe that Al-Queda wouldn't like to tear down all of western culture and world progress back down to a level of 1300 AD, then I really don't know what to tell you. :(

Alot of the terrorists hate the western culture. That's not only America. Besides, if we ever get the fuck out of israel, the psychos in the middle east will need to find another important reason to hate us. Might as well be western culture.

What a highly educated and eloquent world view. :rolleyes:

If that is true...Why didnt the US "carrie" Canada to the Iraq war?

He spelt that one correctly, this time it is you who is wrong.

carried, carry
supplied, supply
complied, comply

simple, no?

BTW: I know my grammar and spelling isn't perfect, but I don't try to pick on others' spelling.

Paying down the national debt would be a good idea but I was thinking of our peacekeeping duties.

And alberta is a 4th in canada? huh? Right now alberta pays the 3rd most taxes towards canada, it will be the 2nd soon, yup more than quebec, even if you took away all the oil and gas exports we would still be a net contributor...
Alberta sends 7 ~ 9 BILLION PER YEAR, ontario sends only 1 billion, canada has a large surplus because of alberta. That being said......

We need a middle sized army to help stabilize the world. We, I believe, have a duty to stop the rwanda s of the world. We have a duty to help afganistan rebuild etc etc etc.

We are rich and if you just worry about your own house, everyone will dislike you for thinking only about yourself. Its simple logic, not to mention its the right thing to do.

I think we could keep slowly paying off the debt to keep reducing it as a percentage of GDP and over the next 10 years, rebuild the military to about 100,000 men from the current 60,000. It would not cost that much and it would do much to help the world and help our world status. I mean, Im not talking about having this giant powerhouse military, just one that can actually have 10,000 men in the field without collapasing. :fluffle:

I am in the Canadian military. The people who say Canada shouldn't spend money on the military are the same ones who gladly send our soldiers overseas on peacekeeping peacemaking missions.

I have done patrols in vehicles as armoured as a volkswagon. We had armoured vehicles in Bossnia that were never designed to be combat vehicles but training ones. We took them to Bosnia because we had nothing else. Machineguns could punch holes in their sides the armour is so thin. We didn't have enough body armour for everyone. The list goes on...

Soldiers are not asking for a military so large to start wars of aggression. We want the proper equipment to carry out our jobs. We wouldn't ask policeman to go without body armour but soldiers do.

I think Canada needs a moderate increase in the military. This includes:

* 1 light brigade to join our 3 existing mechanized brigades.
* 3 mechanized brigades brought up to full strength.
New tanks. Tanks are a peacekeeping tool. When you show up with them everyone commites to peace.
* New C-130s to replace our old C-130s (24 total)
* Heavy lift transports (c-17) (4-6)
* Air to Air refueling planes (4-6)
* Medium to heavy lift helos (CH-47)(40-50 total)
*Replacement destroyers capable of sailing into the arctic pack ice to enforce our soverignty there (4-6 ships)
* Upgrade the 2 Halifax Destroyers
* 4 Multi Mission Ships which can either resupply other ships on long deployments or land a battlegroup (1200 soldiers)

Canada's military has historically done amazing things and been a force for good. Stopping Hitler was important, he was murdering millions. Stoping genocide in the former Yugoslavia is a wirthy mission. Helping at home (floods forest fires) gives our emergancy responce suthorities an additional resource to help them in times of need.

A militry is like a fire department. You can gamble you don't need it but heaven help if a fire starts. As well, a citizen of the world community I am proud when we help out and do our share to make the world a better place.

Canada doesn't need to be a superpower. She should though take steps to enhance her military so we can fullfill our missions and take our place in helping the world community.

I am in the Canadian military. The people who say Canada shouldn't spend money on the military are the same ones who gladly send our soldiers overseas on peacekeeping peacemaking missions.

I have done patrols in vehicles as armoured as a volkswagon. We had armoured vehicles in Bossnia that were never designed to be combat vehicles but training ones. We took them to Bosnia because we had nothing else. Machineguns could punch holes in their sides the armour is so thin. We didn't have enough body armour for everyone. The list goes on...

Soldiers are not asking for a military so large to start wars of aggression. We want the proper equipment to carry out our jobs. We wouldn't ask policeman to go without body armour but soldiers do.

I think Canada needs a moderate increase in the military. This includes:

* 1 light brigade to join our 3 existing mechanized brigades.
* 3 mechanized brigades brought up to full strength.
New tanks. Tanks are a peacekeeping tool. When you show up with them everyone commites to peace.
* New C-130s to replace our old C-130s (24 total)
* Heavy lift transports (c-17) (4-6)
* Air to Air refueling planes (4-6)
* Medium to heavy lift helos (CH-47)(40-50 total)
*Replacement destroyers capable of sailing into the arctic pack ice to enforce our soverignty there (4-6 ships)
* Upgrade the 2 Halifax Destroyers
* 4 Multi Mission Ships which can either resupply other ships on long deployments or land a battlegroup (1200 soldiers)

Canada's military has historically done amazing things and been a force for good. Stopping Hitler was important, he was murdering millions. Stoping genocide in the former Yugoslavia is a wirthy mission. Helping at home (floods forest fires) gives our emergancy responce suthorities an additional resource to help them in times of need.

A militry is like a fire department. You can gamble you don't need it but heaven help if a fire starts. As well, a citizen of the world community I am proud when we help out and do our share to make the world a better place.

Canada doesn't need to be a superpower. She should though take steps to enhance her military so we can fullfill our missions and take our place in helping the world community.


Well said. How about replacing our F 18 s? And having a couple small harrier capable air craft carriers and a marine ~ commando type brigand group?

The liberals are planning on buying some helicopters, I think they are just light transport ones, but better than nothing i guess...

Markreich, that last Bin Laden tape that was released stated specifically that countries who haven't had any role in the goings-on in Iraq need not fear terror cells, or attacks. Canada is at least somewhat safer than America, then.

Anyway, our cities are very cosmopolitan places, which I believe also works in our favour - everybody on the planet, it seems, has family or friends in Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver. And nobody wants to blow up their friends and family, do they? Heh.

Multiculturalism - our greatest line of defence! Break out the steel drums and bowls of kimchi all 'round! Okay, launch those dragon boats and kayaks! Poutine, anybody?

Aieeee!
1 Isn't it possible that Bin Laden is simply trying to convince other nations to abandon the US? Divide and conquer and all that?
2 New York is perhaps the most cosmopolitan city in the world. Every nation represented, every language spoken, every religion practiced. That didn't help them on 9/11.
3 Multiculturalism as a line of defense? The US is multicultural (perhaps less so now than on 9/11). It didn't help. The Dutch are multicultural. Now they have islamofascists killing people in the streets and threatening to assasinate their government. Multiculturalism is a weakness. An unavoidable one in an open society.

Anyway, Canada doesn't need a strong military. The US and Israel are the main targets at the moment, and besides, you live right next door to the world's police station.

ITs not a matter of protecting ourselves from a invasion. I mean shit, canada has more guns per capita than the states and its really big and really cold, good luck invading it.

I am talking about being able to support peacekeeping and peace making. THat needs some firepower! :sniper:

I also thought canada was right behind,
1) USA
2) Isreal
3) UK
4) austrialia
5) canada

On Bin laden's hitlist....

You going to eat that oil, you arrogant western knob? Who the hell do you think is buying your beef? It ain't the Americans! Give your head a shake before you insult the very people you need to help you out.

Well said. How about replacing our F 18 s? And having a couple small harrier capable air craft carriers and a marine ~ commando type brigand group?

The liberals are planning on buying some helicopters, I think they are just light transport ones, but better than nothing i guess...

I think we have 3 options for the Cf-18

1. CF-35 JSF (ready in 5-7 years)
2. Eurofighter Typhoon (ready now)
3. CF-18 E/F Superhornet (ready now)

I favour option 1. The USA makes the best aircraft and you can bet it will be in production for 20+ years. This means access to pats and upgrades. We have no problems with our CF-18s because they are still being built. If we go with option 1 we need to upgrade our CF-18s in the meantime.

Instead of carriers I suggest a WASP type ship. It can either operate as a light carrier (30 aircraft with a mix of fighters and helos) or as a landing ship for a battlegroup. (1200-1800 soldiers + equipment). As a landing ship it can perform a host of missions including disaster relief, peacekeeping, peacemaking etc. As well the F-35 could operate from a WASP ship, the others cannot.

The helos are new ones for our frigates and destroyers. Their job isn't transport but to be the eyes and ears of the ship. They can spot submarines illegial fishing, do search and rescue etc. Very valueable equipment. I don't know much about the new helos but they are made by Sikorsky which is one of the best helicopter companies in the world so I'm sure they will work just fine.

--------------------------
Anyway, Canada doesn't need a strong military. The US and Israel are the main targets at the moment, and besides, you live right next door to the world's police station.
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Not to defend against terrorism but other issues will pop up. I don't want our foreign policy dictated by others because we have no military to make our own decisions. I want Canadians to decide for Canada what to do. So if we feel like stopping genocide in Sudan we have the miliary that can do it.

I think we have 3 options for the Cf-18

1. CF-35 JSF (ready in 5-7 years)
2. Eurofighter Typhoon (ready now)
3. CF-18 E/F Superhornet (ready now)

I favour option 1. The USA makes the best aircraft and you can bet it will be in production for 20+ years. This means access to pats and upgrades. We have no problems with our CF-18s because they are still being built. If we go with option 1 we need to upgrade our CF-18s in the meantime.

Instead of carriers I suggest a WASP type ship. It can either operate as a light carrier (30 aircraft with a mix of fighters and helos) or as a landing ship for a battlegroup. (1200-1800 soldiers + equipment). As a landing ship it can perform a host of missions including disaster relief, peacekeeping, peacemaking etc. As well the F-35 could operate from a WASP ship, the others cannot.

The helos are new ones for our frigates and destroyers. Their job isn't transport but to be the eyes and ears of the ship. They can spot submarines illegial fishing, do search and rescue etc. Very valueable equipment. I don't know much about the new helos but they are made by Sikorsky which is one of the best helicopter companies in the world so I'm sure they will work just fine.

--------------------------
Anyway, Canada doesn't need a strong military. The US and Israel are the main targets at the moment, and besides, you live right next door to the world's police station.
--------------------------
Not to defend against terrorism but other issues will pop up. I don't want our foreign policy dictated by others because we have no military to make our own decisions. I want Canadians to decide for Canada what to do. So if we feel like stopping genocide in Sudan we have the miliary that can do it.
If you feel like stopping genocide in Sudan, more power to you. Unfortunately our prez decided taking out Saddam was more important, and now we're stretched too thin to do it.

You going to eat that oil, you arrogant western knob? Who the hell do you think is buying your beef? It ain't the Americans! Give your head a shake before you insult the very people you need to help you out.


ARe you talking to me?

Beef is a problem but it not even in the top five industries in alberta. Where did I insult you? I stated fact.


You must be from quebec, which should be the richest province as it has the most uptapped resourses but chooses to be poor, or some burb from TO. <<< thats a insult

If you feel like stopping genocide in Sudan, more power to you. Unfortunately our prez decided taking out Saddam was more important, and now we're stretched too thin to do it.


I think canada should be doing more in afganistan. That country deserves peace and thats where the terrorists are, not iraq.

I definately agree with canada getting a much stronger military. We need it. The way i see it, we are always WASTING our cash on total crap like the gun registry and the health care system which i think should just be done away with and started off fresh. (off course i would still like it to be free)

The canadian military should put more of its funding towrds the airforce and the army, since they are the most cash strapped at the moment IMO. We should really enlarge the total number of troops to around 80,000, and we definately should get some ark royal type carriers with harriers, JSF's, and hell, maybe even get some FA/22 raptors for the air force. That is just what i think.

But then again, the government is always putting it off to a secondary priority. I wonder what the country will think if a terrorist blows up the CN tower or Confederation bridge, or some power plants in quebec, (H2O anyone?), etc, etc.

Well thats a little extreme but if we arent going to stop stuff like rwanda from happening, who is?

Alberta is still overrun by a bunch of bloody neo-con rednecks.

Alberta is still overrun by a bunch of bloody neo-con rednecks.

By rednecks please explain. I assume you mean this in a negative way. Further which specific items about Albertan's are you concerned about?

Alberta is still overrun by a bunch of bloody neo-con rednecks.


fuck to

Wow...this thread has completely degenerated. Anyone interested in debating the worth (cough cough) of Premier Ralph Klein, please add to this thread: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375827

As for the issue of our military... I'd like to see it gone rather than have it be so ridiculously caught up in political deals involving the sale of substandard equipment. We've been doing this since the Boer War...buying Britain's left overs, or making deals to produce our 'own' weapons which then fail massively. How much of our purchases are dictated by backroom deals with political buddies over the actual needs of our soldiers? How much money do we waste on crap? Either outfit us well, or quit pretending to have an army.

Wow...this thread has completely degenerated. Anyone interested in debating the worth (cough cough) of Premier Ralph Klein, please add to this thread: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375827

As for the issue of our military... I'd like to see it gone rather than have it be so ridiculously caught up in political deals involving the sale of substandard equipment. We've been doing this since the Boer War...buying Britain's left overs, or making deals to produce our 'own' weapons which then fail massively. How much of our purchases are dictated by backroom deals with political buddies over the actual needs of our soldiers? How much money do we waste on crap? Either outfit us well, or quit pretending to have an army.

Well, if you are going to let the media dictate your decisions based on a few well publicized incidents you will soon shut down all of government.

The Canadian military is filled with success stories of the proper equipment builtor purchased for the forces. Some include:

Centurion tank - best tank of its generation
M-113 - an outstanding APC
LAV family of vehicles. Not only do the serve Canada well but we sell them all over the world.
C-7 rifle. Considered superior to it's American counterpart
Halifax Frigates - excllent warships
CF-18 - A fighter that has served Canada well.
CF-100 worlds best all weather fighter in it's day
CADPAT uniforms - one of the best camo uniforms out there. United States MArine Corp evaluated it against their US Army Woodland Camo and choose the Canadian stuff.

Canada has some excellent equipment. We just need more of it, plus soldiers plus training budgets.

The Liberals need to spend on the military period. A teacher at my High School is over in Afghanistan, serving 6 months as part of a peacekeeping mission and from the letters he's sent back, it sounds like they under equiped in most areas and given how dangerous a country that is, we shoulld at least give these people an ability to defend themselves and those around them properly. As for Alberta carrying Canada, well Ontario carries the East and Alberta carries the West. While our military and peacekeeping core have a fairly long and proud tradition, the federal government has begun to ignore them and given the current state of the world, thats a very bad idea.

No, one billion from ontario and nine billion from alberta = alberta carrys the country.

Actually, BC is set to become at the break even point and sask keeps inching up...

No, one billion from ontario and nine billion from alberta = alberta carrys the country.

Actually, BC is set to become at the break even point and sask keeps inching up...



If Sask is inching up, its only because everyone feels sorry for us, not because we're doing anything right. I'm an Albertan though, so I should have that it was Alberta but just to be polite, I threw in ol' Ontario.

What would make sense is for Alberta to set up -extremely low interest- loans to the rest of Canada, with only chunks of their money, to try and help everyone else out of their debt for a small, but still tidy profit. If the entire country is booming, it'd be good for every part of it.

Debt-free countries have amazing potential.

Notably, I'd avoid reducing taxes. If anything, I'd say reduce it so that people aren't paying for unexisting debt, but I'd actually keep SOME of that.. say... a third... for national coffers, that can't be touched for personal profit.

If people are doing fine with the current tax rates, and you can guarantee there will be no future debt... -wow-.

Canada does need to spend more on it's military, granted. I don't think we should expand our forces, but we should make sure that the ones we have are equipped as well as possible. Around the world one of the things people love most about Canada is our peacekeeping force, and it has been dwindling for quite some time now.

But getting rid of the debt/funding healthcare is also very important. The babyboomers are aging rapidly and we need to be able to handle the increased amount of seniors. If we get rid of the debt now we can be safe to go back in debt later when we need to fund the extra healthcare costs of the babyboomers.

As for Alberta carrying the rest of Canada, I can't agree with that. Every province, from Newfoundland (yes even the Newfies) to Ontario to Alberta brings something of it's own to the table. Hell the greatest Canadian of all time (as voted last night) was some guy from the prairies who became the Premier of Saskatchewan (arguably the most boring province in Canada, I've lived there, I know). So yes, every single bit of this great land is important from coast to coast to coast. And I hate it when provinces that are more successful than others refuse to share with the rest of the country, for crying out loud we are all part of Canada, one of the things the Worlds loves about us the fact that we are compassionate (forgiving 3rd World Debt etc.), and yet inside our own country we refuse to share.

No, one billion from ontario and nine billion from alberta = alberta carrys the country.

Actually, BC is set to become at the break even point and sask keeps inching up...


No, one billion from ontario and nine billion from alberta = alberta carrys the country THIS YEAR.

LArgely thanks to oil jumping to $50/barrel while your costs remain the same.

But, while you are acting all superior abou things, please take a moment to thank the rest of Canada for doing things like:

a) building the rail network and graineries through your province to allow farmers to get their wheat to market. Without that so many decades ago nobody would have ever settled there.
b) financing research to design superior, hardy grains which would flourish in the shorter growing seasons of Canada as compared to the midwestern USA. Many of them were developed in Ottawa.
b) financing oil exploration and experimental processes to extract oil from the Athabasca tarpit from which so much of your revenues have been generated.


Yes, Alberta is right now the revenue powerhouse of the country (note that I don't say economic powerhouse, or job creation powerhouse). But before you get feeling all smug about it, remember who it was that paid for developing it for you.

Thank you, though, for the nice return on our investment. We apreciate the hard work you have put into it. Really.

A modest tax cut wouldnt hurt but debt replayment + rebuilding the military would be a better option.

AS for the loan agreement. I dont think that would be such a good idea as ummm perhaps it would not be paid back ala quebec...

Instead of building a national day care system, Lets start rebuilding out bloody military dammit...
fuck the military. let's take care of the people of the country first before building up forces to go out and kill other people.

No, one billion from ontario and nine billion from alberta = alberta carrys the country THIS YEAR.

LArgely thanks to oil jumping to $50/barrel while your costs remain the same.

But, while you are acting all superior abou things, please take a moment to thank the rest of Canada for doing things like:

a) building the rail network and graineries through your province to allow farmers to get their wheat to market. Without that so many decades ago nobody would have ever settled there.
b) financing research to design superior, hardy grains which would flourish in the shorter growing seasons of Canada as compared to the midwest. Many of them were developed in Ottawa.
b) financing oil exploration and experimental processes to extract oil from the Athabasca tarpit from which so much of your revenues have been generated.


Yes, Alberta is right now the revenue powerhouse of the country (note that I don't say economic powerhouse, or job creation powerhouse). But before you get feeling all smug about it, remember who it was that paid for developing it for you.

Thank you, though, for the nice return on our investment. We apreciate the hard work you have put into it. Really.


ahhhhhhhhh finacing oil exploration came from outside of alberta? OOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK,

all the oil companies are NOW in alberta, all of em, even imperial has now moved to alberta.

And again we would still be giving more than recieveing WITHOUT the oil.
We do indeed have a large job creation market, we were SECOND behind ontario, ahead of quebec this year which has more than twice the population.


The economy in alberta is not just about oil....

And thanks for the railroad which was created 100 years ago, I know the current generation put alot of work into that!

And since wheat is such a HUGE part of our economy, well, well done!

But getting rid of the debt/funding healthcare is also very important. The babyboomers are aging rapidly and we need to be able to handle the increased amount of seniors. If we get rid of the debt now we can be safe to go back in debt later when we need to fund the extra healthcare costs of the babyboomers.

if you haven't noticed, for the past 10 years, the federal liberals have produced a surplus, which has gone to debt repayment.

if you haven't noticed, for the past 10 years, the federal liberals have produced a surplus, which has gone to debt repayment.



The Liberals have also done a bunch of other shit too. I live in Ralph Goodale's riding and have tremedous respect for him as an individual and MP, but I lost my respect for his party in the 90's.

Alberta was tied for third highest (http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/health21a.htm) in infant morality rate of the provinces as of 2001. That seems to be the best Internet (!!) can do.
remind me to go to british columbia when i'm about to have a kid.

The Liberals have also done a bunch of other shit too. I live in Ralph Goodale's riding and have tremedous respect for him as an individual and MP, but I lost my respect for his party in the 90's.
i dont' vote liberal either. i voted ndp in the last federal election.

and hell, who would have thought that mcguinty was an idiot. but hey, better than the idiots who left our province with 8 billion dollars of a detecit. i still think the liberals shoudl just suck it up and raise taxes though. they got rid of the ohip coverage on physio, then eyecare... geez. because you know, being able to see isn't important at all, now is it?

i dont' vote liberal either. i voted ndp in the last federal election.

and hell, who would have thought that mcguinty was an idiot. but hey, better than the idiots who left our province with 8 billion dollars of a detecit. i still think the liberals shoudl just suck it up and raise taxes though. they got rid of the ohip coverage on physio, then eyecare... geez. because you know, being able to see isn't important at all, now is it?



Ernie Eves was worse. But I couldn't vote for the NDP myself, and given I'm a Conservative, I'd likely vote for them if I didn't live in Goodale's riding.

I don't know how Ontario politics entered into this thread....if you can even call McGuinty's lies politics.....but Ontario's economy hasn't been the same since Harris left.
On the whole Alberta carrying the country thing......when your talking about transfer payments that are allocated to other provinces that just don't make any damn money then yes Alberta is really picking the tab up on that one, but its tit for tat, the Central provinces carried the west for the better part of Canadian history, so it all goes full circle, just like the East Coast used to carry the Quebec and Ontario colonies.
It should also be interesting to note that Ontario gets out of contributing a lot to the federal government for transfer payments because we put all our money right back into the budget, leaving very little to go to Ottawa.

fuck the military. let's take care of the people of the country first before building up forces to go out and kill other people.

As a soldier I have been involved in missions that centred not on killing people but to prevent killing. During the war in the former Yugoslavia mass graves were common. When we arrived we were tasked with preventing the Bosnian Serb army from killing entire villages. Killing included old women, children men babies. The Serbs goal was if they could kill all opposition then the war would end. Before we arrived they treated another village a bit more humanily. They seperated all the 12+ year old boys and men from the rest of the villagers. They reasoned a 12 year old buy could carry 2 boxs of machinegun ammo and thus resupply a machinegun team. Therefore a 12 year old was a weapon of war and needed to die.

Your record on this board is one of simple minded comments with no substance to your arguments. If you are going to "fuck the military" are you still going to insist it travel overseas under equipped or are you going to stop all overseas missions? Also, are you willing to not help stop the genocide in places like Bosnia?

As a soldier I have been involved in missions that centred not on killing people but to prevent killing. During the war in the former Yugoslavia mass graves were common. When we arrived we were tasked with preventing the Bosnian Serb army from killing entire villages. Killing included old women, children men babies. The Serbs goal was if they could kill all opposition then the war would end. Before we arrived they treated another village a bit more humanily. They seperated all the 12+ year old boys and men from the rest of the villagers. They reasoned a 12 year old buy could carry 2 boxs of machinegun ammo and thus resupply a machinegun team. Therefore a 12 year old was a weapon of war and needed to die.

Your record on this board is one of simple minded comments with no substance to your arguments. If you are going to "fuck the military" are you still going to insist it travel overseas under equipped or are you going to stop all overseas missions? Also, are you willing to not help stop the genocide in places like Bosnia?




Hey, I said we need to spend more on the military. Do you think the liberals have handled it well or not?

Hey Jayastan, you know, everybody's got to live somewhere. I live in Toronto. You don't.

I don't care where you live. Why do you care where other people live?

I voted in the last election. So did you. You wanted change, so did I. Why do you assume that everybody in Toronto voted Liberal? That would be like me suggesting that everybody in your town (wherever that is) voted...oh, I don't know, for the sake of argument, let's say the Bloc.

It didn't hit you on any sort of a gut level, did it? It didn't offend you to hear that ludicrous assertion...and that's what the whole 'let's-hate-Toronto' routine does for me. Nothing. Nada. Rien du tout. Water off a duck's back.

If you're hoping to stir the shit, you'll have to do far more than that to rile me in future.

Just sayin'.

I voted in the last election. So did you. You wanted change, so did I.



Who'd you vote for, if you don't mind me asking?

Alot of the terrorists hate the western culture. That's not only America. Besides, if we ever get the fuck out of israel, the psychos in the middle east will need to find another important reason to hate us. Might as well be western culture.

Right (http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html).
It makes me sad to see this kind of demonization of the opposing side, haven't we learned anything from history?

Hey Jayastan, you know, everybody's got to live somewhere. I live in Toronto. You don't.

I don't care where you live. Why do you care where other people live?

I voted in the last election. So did you. You wanted change, so did I. Why do you assume that everybody in Toronto voted Liberal? That would be like me suggesting that everybody in your town (wherever that is) voted...oh, I don't know, for the sake of argument, let's say the Bloc.

It didn't hit you on any sort of a gut level, did it? It didn't offend you to hear that ludicrous assertion...and that's what the whole 'let's-hate-Toronto' routine does for me. Nothing. Nada. Rien du tout. Water off a duck's back.

If you're hoping to stir the shit, you'll have to do far more than that to rile me in future.

Just sayin'.


i said that about TO just to get some responses, such as : fuck u ignorant alberta bitch etc etc.

That being said, it sure seemed to piss off alot of people from the TO area, its weird as the largest city in canada you would think more people from TO would have the same view you have, but then i guess not lol...

As for the whole "carrying" thing, alberta has always been a net contributer seen the 50s. The only time it was not was when the liberal government introduced the NEP and ahh then alberta was not.

Its silly to talk about economies 200 years ago lol. Newfoundland carrying canada hahhahahah right.

I don't know how Ontario politics entered into this thread....if you can even call McGuinty's lies politics.....but Ontario's economy hasn't been the same since Harris left.
On the whole Alberta carrying the country thing......when your talking about transfer payments that are allocated to other provinces that just don't make any damn money then yes Alberta is really picking the tab up on that one, but its tit for tat, the Central provinces carried the west for the better part of Canadian history, so it all goes full circle, just like the East Coast used to carry the Quebec and Ontario colonies.
It should also be interesting to note that Ontario gets out of contributing a lot to the federal government for transfer payments because we put all our money right back into the budget, leaving very little to go to Ottawa.

Last thing i heard from ernie eves was that there was no deficit.McGuinty is planning to have the deficite gone by 2007.So given the choice between somone who lies to make their party look good, oh someone who lied to get ontario back on track....mcguintys my choice.

PS. anyone who cooks finacial statements usually goes to jail, why arn't eves, harris and ecker in jail right now?

I agree, we're only lucky cause we got our oil. As for the military, we need to build up to some extent, but we're largely only peace keeper's. We need maybe Mechanized, and possibly one maybe two armored. But beyond that? A navy to maintain our soverignty over the north. And an Airforce. But I can't see us getting involved in a massive war anytime soon, but if we do...

As for supporting the nation, yes we do take a large chunk of it. The onyl people I get annoyed at for it, is Quebec. I know people there who get FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS, their own laptops, they have Moral Education programs, they have very well built schools. And yet they STILL manage to whine and say they need more money. I'm in favour of EQUALITY, not Superiority. :sniper:

Other than that, Ol' Ralph I think only stayed in mostly because we don't have another we feel could lead our Province. It's true, I don't really like him, but I'm not sure how well the others would do either. Then again I can't vote, but I am planning on Going into Politic's :p Vote Scott 2012! (ish)

why stop with giving alberta control of its finances? why not just join the US? the american politics better match alberta's, alberta would receive more equal treatment under their elected senate, there would finally be a private health care sysytem, albertans would be able to contribute to an army in the world actually effectively fighting for human rights, not just sending a few guys down for a couple months, senate reform would finally be realized, a stronger currency, and albertans wouldn't have to worry about the most dictatorial democracy in the industrialized western world being elected every 4 years by ontario to trash their economy and provincial rights (NEP, Kyoto, etc.)
and best of all, no quebec, just new yorkers to worry about!

albertans wouldn't have to worry about the most dictatorial democracy in the industrialized western world being elected every 4 years by ontario to trash their economy and provincial rights (NEP, Kyoto, etc.)
and best of all, no quebec, just new yorkers to worry about!


Im sorry, I didn't know you considerd a province with 3 million equal to one with 10 million.I guess albertains have some sort of majic powers that give them the awsome ability to represent 3 people at once! I should feel privaliged that my vote here in ontario could compare to but one third of a citizen of alberta in your world were democracy favors minorties.Who cares the liberals beat the conservatives by a million votes, most of them came from ontario im sure.

Hey Jayastan, you know, everybody's got to live somewhere. I live in Toronto. You don't.

*waves* I'm from T.O.! ^_^

I voted in the last election. So did you. You wanted change, so did I. Why do you assume that everybody in Toronto voted Liberal? That would be like me suggesting that everybody in your town (wherever that is) voted...oh, I don't know, for the sake of argument, let's say the Bloc.

Because Dolly McQuinty's Pussy-Liberals took the majority - though a slight improvement, if any, over the Eves' Neo-Cons. Plus, there are too many of the morons.

...and that's what the whole 'let's-hate-Toronto' routine does for me.

You want anti-Toronto, go to Ottawa! ^_^

As for supporting the nation, yes we do take a large chunk of it. The onyl people I get annoyed at for it, is Quebec. I know people there who get FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS, their own laptops, they have Moral Education programs, they have very well built schools. And yet they STILL manage to whine and say they need more money. I'm in favour of EQUALITY, not Superiority. :sniper:


Hi, I'm a Quebecer.

Moral Education- interesting subject, it seems. Up until recently, the school boards in Quebec were still being run under religious lines- school boards were either catholic or protestant (basically, anyone non-catholic went there). Many of the catholic schools often went without things like libraries so that they could run chapels and religious classes.

Our protestant (typically more inclusive) schools had MRE: Moral/Religious Education. Basically, it skimmed through the Bible and the various popular religions around the world. At one point, the Quebec government decided to put in place school boards split on language rather than religion. These new boards weren't affiliated with a specific religion, so 'Moral Education' was given as an option to parents when they were signing up their kid for the coming school year.

Now to the part of your post that's irritating.

While I went to high school, the principal had to deal with a budget that got halved over about three years, the cafeteria roof collapsed, and we had to use MacIntosh Classics and LC475s for a computer lab (hey, we got a five first-gen iMacs the year I graduated). The year after I graduated, the student population was merged with kids from another high-school that got closed, and all the un-unionized staff had to reapply for their positions.

Oh, and the elementary school across the road was overcrowded to the point where classes had to be held in trailers outside. It was unfortunate when the ceilings in those things were infested with mould.

What I'm saying is that no, Quebec is not leaching off of you while secretly living some insanely extravagant lifestyle.

I believe it was Terra who was curious as to how I voted. Well, I'll tell you - I campaigned for the candidate who I thought would best represent my riding, Toronto-Centre. Here in Toronto-Centre, we have quite a, quite a, mixed bag, from rags to riches, in a tiny geographical area that's mostly built up vertically.

In the north end, topping the scales in terms of ostentatious wealth, power, and all the attendant crap that goes with it, lies Rosedale. It's like a gated community without gates...well, except that you must cross over a ravine to enter it. It's like Westmount, Junior. CEO-land. A traditional place, where white toddlers are still shepherded to city parks by rotund Jamaican nannies.

Travelling southward, we find ourselves in Canada's largest Gay community, the 'Village'. It's colour and vibrancy tend to make up for Rosedale's drab conservatism. It's epicentre is Church and Wellesley Streets, but it really has no definable borders. A great place for eateries, bars, pubs, etc.

East of the village lies Cabbagetown, splashdown point for new Canadians, home to roominghouses and seedy storefronts. Currently the ethnic makeup of the neighbourhood appears weighted toward East Africans, but this is in a constant state of flux.

Continuing south, we come to Regent Park, a sprawling municipal housing project, notable for being a magnet for petty crime and overall squalor. Regent Park is about to be razed and re-developed using a different urban planning methodology than was used previously in the post-war era. sitting right next to Regent Park is the tiny Corktown, a nearly-isolated pocket of very old homes built on twisting sidestreets that date back to early Toronto.

And finally, straddling the waterfront, is the St. Lawrence Neighbourhood, a mixture of housing co-ops, condos, private homes, and municipal housing. This is one of the greatest concentrations of left-wing people in the city.This is also the successful model on which Regent Park is being remodelled. I'd mention the 'new' Distillery District, but that's really just marketer-speak. There is no 'Distillery District' - there used to be a distillery, Gooderham & Worts - and now there's a condo there, with a lot of the old buildings converted into trendy lofts, etc. They put on touristy shows and events there, but it's not what I'd call a neighbourhood. More like a playground for visiting suburbanites and their whelp.

So, a mixed bag to say the least. We had candidates from all the major parties (no Bloc, of course), several minor party candidates, and one or two independents. Our MP going into the election was Bill Graham, he of Rosedale wealth, and one of the few top-ranked Liberals to successfully slither from the Chretien camp to the Martin camp. Trouble with star cabinet ministers is that they're usually total crap at dealing with the needs and concerns of their constituents. Besides, the dude made virtually NO effort during the campaign. So no, I didn't vote Liberal.

The new-ish Tories ran a bland candidate who made little or no impact locally. Holy crap, I can't remember now whether it was a woman or a man. That kinda sums it up.

The NDP ran Michael Shapcott, who was behind 'Bread Not Circuses' many years ago, the advocacy group that many felt dashed Toronto's chances for the Olympic Games. Yup, you guessed it - I worked for Shapcott's campaign. I might simply have voted NDP, but when I learned who the candidate was, I felt strongly enough about his suitability to represent such a diverse group of people as Toronto-Centre that I volunteered my time in the hopes of getting him elected.

I thought we had a good chance, too, what with Graham's absentee candidacy - but no such luck, although we did increase our overall support. I wanted Michael to represnt us, but I was also hoping the NDP could act as more of a balance to Paul Martin's crew. It's too bad the Liberal minority wasn't in a somewhat more precarious position - he's got juuuust enough power in the Commons to do silly things, like try to sign us up on Bush's Missile Defence Whatsits. Shield. Whatever.

It's a bad damn idea, but I'm getting the feeling that the only way to get 'justice' in the Trade disputes will be for us to provide them with places to install their proposed new weapons installations. Fuck that noise.

Hmmm...y'know, for such a long rambling post, this doesn't actually have much to do with the thread per se. I hope no-one gets peeved, thinkin' I'm hijacking the thread...

Sorry!




And hi there Scottrick, I used to be a Quebecer, too. Just thought I'd say hey there.

I was considering voting NDP but then Layton made some remark about repealing the Clarity Act. Sorry, I'm a supporter of that bit of legislation. 8)

The Conservative candidate was a crazy ex-mayor that spent his entire time in office fighting with the city council. I don't remember who the Bloc candiate was, or who ran for the Marxist/Leninist or the Marijuana parties. [I was disapointed that the Natural Law party didn't bother fielding a candidate this year, though- those people were always a hoot]

So in the end, I ended up voting for my riding's Liberal incumbent ( http://www.marlenejennings.parl.gc.ca/welcome.asp?lang=en).

why stop with giving alberta control of its finances? why not just join the US? the american politics better match alberta's, alberta would receive more equal treatment under their elected senate, there would finally be a private health care sysytem, albertans would be able to contribute to an army in the world actually effectively fighting for human rights, not just sending a few guys down for a couple months, senate reform would finally be realized, a stronger currency, and albertans wouldn't have to worry about the most dictatorial democracy in the industrialized western world being elected every 4 years by ontario to trash their economy and provincial rights (NEP, Kyoto, etc.)
and best of all, no quebec, just new yorkers to worry about!


Good grief, what a knucklehead, im not talking about joining the states or privatizing health care. Why do peops in ontario all think albertans want this?
I dont, the USA per capita pays much more for health than canada. We do need some changes in the way we deliver health care, but private health care is not the answer....

I am in support of dismantling the EI program or at least increasing the amount of hours needed to receive benifits, increasing military spending, getting rid of the national gun reg, just because its a waste of money, getting rid of the CBC, making canada a republic (no queen! ya!)

Other than that I am pretty centralist in my politics.

Good grief, what a knucklehead, im not talking about joining the states or privatizing health care. Why do peops in ontario all think albertans want this?
I dont, the USA per capita pays much more for health than canada. We do need some changes in the way we deliver health care, but private health care is not the answer....

I am in support of dismantling the EI program or at least increasing the amount of hours needed to receive benifits, increasing military spending, getting rid of the national gun reg, just because its a waste of money, getting rid of the CBC, making canada a republic (no queen! ya!)

Other than that I am pretty centralist in my politics.

Jay, it's not very 'conservative' to want to change a lot of things. I went on about that bit in my Continental Divide thread. There's Tories, life-long Tories, in Ontario & Quebec who just plain don't trust the new Tory party because of all the social conservative rhetoric that went hand-in-hand with the old Reform Party. They might eventually go for Stephen Harper, who knows, but not before they can really appeal to the values of old Tories, who feel frustrated with the whole swing towards social & fiscal conservatism, when what they're looking for is social progressiveness & fiscal conservatism.

why stop with giving alberta control of its finances? why not just join the US? the american politics better match alberta's, alberta would receive more equal treatment under their elected senate, there would finally be a private health care sysytem, albertans would be able to contribute to an army in the world actually effectively fighting for human rights, not just sending a few guys down for a couple months, senate reform would finally be realized, a stronger currency, and albertans wouldn't have to worry about the most dictatorial democracy in the industrialized western world being elected every 4 years by ontario to trash their economy and provincial rights (NEP, Kyoto, etc.)
and best of all, no quebec, just new yorkers to worry about!
umm the US dollar value is sinking at asteady rate with bush as the leader, umm okay i dont want to talk abou tpolitics in the US but DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THE US IS FIGHT FOR HUMA RIGHTS???? cough cough thats a laugh, i live in the US, a majority of people dissagree with the Iraqi war, and umm do you no how many of teh soldgers actually want to be in Iraq, why dont you go fight there yourself, and as for dictatoral democracy, ummm yeah teh first tiem bush got elected the majoity voted for gore but because of teh stupid electoral voting system bush got it. and ontario elects teh government how? BC has millions of people, so does alberta, i wouldnt be complaining, compared to the US government you gave a fairly democratic society

BEST OF ALL NO QUEBEC!?! are u complaining because they want to separate exactly like you do?????? i mean really. god whats so bad about them???

over all ALberta would be, probably in a much worse hole if they were apart of the US than they are now, if they even are in a hole.

why stop with giving alberta control of its finances? why not just join the US? the american politics better match alberta's, alberta would receive more equal treatment under their elected senate, there would finally be a private health care sysytem, albertans would be able to contribute to an army in the world actually effectively fighting for human rights, not just sending a few guys down for a couple months, senate reform would finally be realized, a stronger currency, and albertans wouldn't have to worry about the most dictatorial democracy in the industrialized western world being elected every 4 years by ontario to trash their economy and provincial rights (NEP, Kyoto, etc.)
and best of all, no quebec, just new yorkers to worry about!

I really ought not to, but I feel I must:

You sir, are a dufus. A dufus, sir. A dufus.

Jay, it's not very 'conservative' to want to change a lot of things. I went on about that bit in my Continental Divide thread. There's Tories, life-long Tories, in Ontario & Quebec who just plain don't trust the new Tory party because of all the social conservative rhetoric that went hand-in-hand with the old Reform Party. They might eventually go for Stephen Harper, who knows, but not before they can really appeal to the values of old Tories, who feel frustrated with the whole swing towards social & fiscal conservatism, when what they're looking for is social progressiveness & fiscal conservatism.


It is conservative as those issues i was talking about need to be changed as they are "liberal" ideas. You must have been talking about not wanting change conservative. :rolleyes:

Im sorry, I didn't know you considerd a province with 3 million equal to one with 10 million.I guess albertains have some sort of majic powers that give them the awsome ability to represent 3 people at once! I should feel privaliged that my vote here in ontario could compare to but one third of a citizen of alberta in your world were democracy favors minorties.Who cares the liberals beat the conservatives by a million votes, most of them came from ontario im sure.

oh sorry, i forgot quebec wanted to separate over something important like having french on cereal boxes. i guess because they have more people makes their claims more valid than alberta's.
btw, i am from alberta not ontario, but i dont claim to represent all albertan's views on the subject, even if there is only 3 million of us!

Hi, I'm a Quebecer.

Moral Education- interesting subject, it seems. Up until recently, the school boards in Quebec were still being run under religious lines- school boards were either catholic or protestant (basically, anyone non-catholic went there). Many of the catholic schools often went without things like libraries so that they could run chapels and religious classes.

Our protestant (typically more inclusive) schools had MRE: Moral/Religious Education. Basically, it skimmed through the Bible and the various popular religions around the world. At one point, the Quebec government decided to put in place school boards split on language rather than religion. These new boards weren't affiliated with a specific religion, so 'Moral Education' was given as an option to parents when they were signing up their kid for the coming school year.

Now to the part of your post that's irritating.

While I went to high school, the principal had to deal with a budget that got halved over about three years, the cafeteria roof collapsed, and we had to use MacIntosh Classics and LC475s for a computer lab (hey, we got a five first-gen iMacs the year I graduated). The year after I graduated, the student population was merged with kids from another high-school that got closed, and all the un-unionized staff had to reapply for their positions.

Oh, and the elementary school across the road was overcrowded to the point where classes had to be held in trailers outside. It was unfortunate when the ceilings in those things were infested with mould.

What I'm saying is that no, Quebec is not leaching off of you while secretly living some insanely extravagant lifestyle.

Hi.
I'm a young Albertan.
I know what crowded classrooms are like. With classes that exceed 40 kids.
So if your government is wasting it's money, why should all of Canada be punished? In theory we should make you be more efficient so you couldn't waste money on things such as chapels, and such.

I'm currently in a highschool. The only classes I have that have few people in them are AP classes. That's because the majority don't care or aren't intelligent enough to get into them. My other two classes are around 40 people a piece.

Considering that between us and Ontario we're supporting most of Canada... Financially anyways. I just get annoyed when I hear about it being wasted.

And in fact, My information comes for a girl, whose 16, and lives in the Quebec Country Side. Not exactly sure where however, I do know she attends a public school. She said that they were all 'lent' laptop's from the school.

In otherwords kids could use them for just about anything they wanted too. She uploaded digtal pictures (nice ones but still) On her's.

That is what annoys me. Government waste.
Both my Jr High and my Elementary schools used those same Mobiles. With the same mould. :headbang: We're all in the same boat. But Quebec is getting Millions? Billions? Of dollars shipped into it, but Alberta is shipping Millions out.

Now don't get me wrong. I'd rather put up with Quebec, our Education system, Health care, and all of it than even set foot in America. Hell. I'd move if it even came close to use moving to America. :gundge:

And I honestly support shipping money to Canada. I just don't like shipping money to hear about it being wasted.

And Moral Education? It seems like a very big waste time, money and energy. I recieve no such thing (thank god) And I'd bet my moral's are quite a bit stronger than most religious people. I always find it ironic that I'm an athiest with largely Morman like self-imposed morals. Either way, that ME is a waste of time and money IMO. We can't afford it, and we shouldn't have to pay for it. We don't have it, why should you need it?

Just out of curiousity, are there any Quebecois out there? I'd like to know how you figure Quebec would survive on it's own?


Secondly.
Ontario. You know what? Give us Representational Democracy then. With your quite Large populace, you'd be able to secure who you wanted in. But then at least it'd matter worth a shit who we elected. 10 Mil != All of Western Canada. :mp5: Not to mention I don't see your debt paid off...

oh sorry, i forgot quebec wanted to separate over something important like having french on cereal boxes. i guess because they have more people makes their claims more valid than alberta's.
btw, i am from alberta not ontario, but i dont claim to represent all albertan's views on the subject, even if there is only 3 million of us!

You must be forgetting that Canada has two national languages, french and english. 8 million french speaking citizens in Quebec should have the right to know what the lable on those cerial box says shouldn't they ? I don't speak for ontario, the same way alberta doesn't speak for canada, even if there is only 3 million of you.

Secondly.
Ontario. You know what? Give us Representational Democracy then. With your quite Large populace, you'd be able to secure who you wanted in. But then at least it'd matter worth a shit who we elected. 10 Mil != All of Western Canada. :mp5: Not to mention I don't see your debt paid off...

Being liberal is the closest thing to a say Ontario has in canada considering the leadership comes from montreal and the opposition comes from edmonton. Both political parties need ontario and that gives ontario voters power other provinces will never have. And proportional representation.....you have 3 million=30 seats. ontario has 11 million = 110 seats. How can ontario pay off its debt when the conservative party told us for 8 years there was no debt.I wonder if your conservative government isn't doing the same.

Being liberal is the closest thing to a say Ontario has in canada considering the leadership comes from montreal and the opposition comes from edmonton. Both political parties need ontario and that gives ontario voters power other provinces will never have. And proportional representation.....you have 3 million=30 seats. ontario has 11 million = 110 seats. How can ontario pay off its debt when the conservative party told us for 8 years there was no debt.I wonder if your conservative government isn't doing the same.


Sure buddy, they are hiding a debt in alberta :confused:

I think the thing to realize that lots of ontario voted conversative and that basically toronto didnt for what ever reason.

I know the liberal have done such a great job in the past ten years!

Scott-land, don't let the editorial bean-counters at places like Sun Media fool you into thinking that Quebec is taking millions or billions out of your pocket. They work to their own twisted agenda, of sewing seeds of disharmony, discontent, etc., so as to bend and break Confederaton by ones and twos and threes.

You dont have to go with Sun Media go with the government of canada's budget plan.

So your saying quebec is not a huge recepient of transfer payments?


Its odd because I think some people in Quebec actually believe this. I wonder how well Quebec would do on its own? I mean even with its share of the national debt (should have a larger percentage of that debt) it would be hard pressed to continue to have services even remotely like they have them now....

I don't think Quebec is all evil. Just some of it. And yes they are recieving millions or billions of dollars.

And proportional representation.....you have 3 million=30 seats. ontario has 11 million = 110 seats.

Of course it makes perfect sense.
You have 11 Million.
Western Canada has MORE than 11 Million people. Yet you have more seats.
Not to mention at the moment, we're probably the economic powerhouse of Canada. I see no reason why you should rule money, oil and other items that we own, have etc. I dont' mind supporting you, but when you screw us over for your own gain. :headbang: It really drives up the number of seperatists (Yes, Alberta does have it's own seperation party) around here.

Sure buddy, they are hiding a debt in alberta :confused:

I think the thing to realize that lots of ontario voted conversative and that basically toronto didnt for what ever reason.

I know the liberal have done such a great job in the past ten years!

Ontario Liberal Party
Seats Won=72
Votes cast for=2,090,001
Popular vote=46.5%

Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario
Seats Won=24
Votes Cast for=1,559,181
Popular vote=34.7

Your telling me that this wasn't a province wide landslide? And im dead seriouse when i tell you that ontarios PC party's told the province there was no deficit, your pc party could be just as underhanded, watch so sighns such as the finance minister presenting the budget outisde your legislature. It's hard to know how the Ontario liberal party has done over the past ten years considering the ndp was messing things up from 91 to 95 and the pc's from 95 to 03.

I think its about time for the NDP to step up in alberta, so they can expose everything albertains have been brainwashed to beliveing as fact by their government.

You must be forgetting that Canada has two national languages, french and english. 8 million french speaking citizens in Quebec should have the right to know what the lable on those cerial box says shouldn't they ? I don't speak for ontario, the same way alberta doesn't speak for canada, even if there is only 3 million of you.

Summary: minority deserves rights - 8 million over 23 million

Im sorry, I didn't know you considerd a province with 3 million equal to one with 10 million.I guess albertains have some sort of majic powers that give them the awsome ability to represent 3 people at once! I should feel privaliged that my vote here in ontario could compare to but one third of a citizen of alberta in your world were democracy favors minorties.Who cares the liberals beat the conservatives by a million votes, most of them came from ontario im sure.

Summary: majority deserves rights - 10 million over 3 million

am i the only one who finds this extremely contradictory?
also, i am not opposed to quebecers having french on their goods, etc (cereal boxes). i am opposed to bilingualism being forced on english canada, while quebec gets to keep french as its only official language. quebec deserves their rights, but they cannot force their policies on english canada without being willing to do the same. thats a good enough reason for a change in the terms of confederation, even in alberta.

Ontario Liberal Party
Seats Won=72
Votes cast for=2,090,001
Popular vote=46.5%

Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario
Seats Won=24
Votes Cast for=1,559,181
Popular vote=34.7

Your telling me that this wasn't a province wide landslide? And im dead seriouse when i tell you that ontarios PC party's told the province there was no deficit, your pc party could be just as underhanded, watch so sighns such as the finance minister presenting the budget outisde your legislature. It's hard to know how the Ontario liberal party has done over the past ten years considering the ndp was messing things up from 91 to 95 and the pc's from 95 to 03.

I think its about time for the NDP to step up in alberta, so they can expose everything albertains have been brainwashed to beliveing as fact by their government.


When did I ever say the ontario Liberal didnt win the last election. Your posts are very odd in that they go all over the place....

"time for the NDP to step up" are you on crack? What province that the NDP has infact been voted in have they done even a OK job? Perhaps sask? Or ahh maybe not...

How have Albertans been brainwashed? :rolleyes:

Summary: minority deserves rights - 8 million over 23 million
Summary: majority deserves rights - 10 million over 3 million

Am I the only one who finds this extremely contradictory?
Also, I am not opposed to Quebecers having French on their goods, etc (cereal boxes). i am opposed to bilingualism being forced on English Canada, while Quebec gets to keep French as its only official language. Quebec deserves their rights, but they cannot force their policies on English Canada without being willing to do the same. That’s a good enough reason for a change in the terms of confederation, even in Alberta.

People speak French all over the place, look at the huge French speaking population in the Maritimes and the parries; confining French to one region denies those people the right to use their first language. Albertans are a political minority, they are by all means the exact same as someone in Ontario, French is an ethnicity; witch takes priority were being Albertan doesn’t qualify you for anything special, the same way being an Ontarian doesn’t necessarily entitle you to anything special.


When did I ever say the Ontario Liberal didn’t win the last election. Your posts are very odd in that they go all over the place....

"time for the NDP to step up" are you on crack? What province that the NDP has infact been voted in have they done even a OK job? Perhaps sask? Or ahh maybe not...

How have Albertans been brainwashed? :rolleyes:

You inference that they squeaked by using Toronto’s ridings when the election was in fact a province wide landslide. Not too keen about the NDP in Saskatchewan eh, i assume you didn't watch that whole greatest Canadian, the list of the ndp's accomplishments required about 4 screens. Constantly denying there is no possibility of there being a debt or perhaps a deficit is odd considering clear examples of progressive conservative cooking their books on the national and provincial levels. Seems kind of fishy to me that no one wants to know if they are telling the truth, but instead running out to party, and declaring Alberta the province that carries Canada because they supposedly have no debt and produce the surplus. Supposedly.

People speak French all over the place, look at the huge French speaking population in the Maritimes and the parries; confining French to one region denies those people the right to use their first language. Albertans are a political minority, they are by all means the exact same as someone in Ontario, French is an ethnicity; witch takes priority were being Albertan doesn’t qualify you for anything special, the same way being an Ontarian doesn’t necessarily entitle you to anything special.




You inference that they squeaked by using Toronto’s ridings when the election was in fact a province wide landslide. Not too keen about the NDP in Saskatchewan eh, i assume you didn't watch that whole greatest Canadian, the list of the ndp's accomplishments required about 4 screens. Constantly denying there is no possibility of there being a debt or perhaps a deficit is odd considering clear examples of progressive conservative cooking their books on the national and provincial levels. Seems kind of fishy to me that no one wants to know if they are telling the truth, but instead running out to party, and declaring Alberta the province that carries Canada because they supposedly have no debt and produce the surplus. Supposedly.


I was talking about the federal election where the liberals swept TO ~ ottawa and nothing else.

What 's " supposed " about the finances on the federal level? Alberta sends canada 9 bill more than it receives, canada has a 9 bill dollar surplus? What am I speaking in tongues here???


Ontario gives but 1 bill more than it receives....

But you know what I cant really talk now because King ralph's minions are always looking out for people who would dare question that we have no debt. His Secret police who police the secret debt could be coming to get me at any minute,,, :eek:

I was talking about the federal election where the liberals swept TO ~ ottawa and nothing else.

What 's " supposed " about the finances on the federal level? Alberta sends canada 9 bill more than it receives, canada has a 9 bill dollar surplus? What am I speaking in tongues here???


Ontario gives but 1 bill more than it receives....

But you know what I cant really talk now because King ralph's minions are always looking out for people who would dare question that we have no debt. His Secret police who police the secret debt could be coming to get me at any minute,,, :eek:

Just means your province has had a more profitable year than the rest.Just because the federal government collects taxes from alberta at the federal level doen't mean that alberta isn't secretly swamped with debt.This is true considering ontario has such a huge debt and continueing deficit.And ralph has probable had a few too many to be concerned with this little forum here.

Just to let you know, take a look at NEW YORK. It's very much the same. They put a small fortune into the national coffers every year, far more than they get back in return.
And $9Bil doesn't equate to carrying the country. They have oil, farm land, and limited commerce. While the other provinces don't have oil (for the most part), the rest have well-established commercial, industrial, and rural economies, as well as industries such as Fishing, etc.

Before the current huge spike in oil prices the value of manufacturing was greater than oil+gas in alberta...

Fishing is such a huge industry, I forgot about that one!


9 billion is a huge number as this is ON TOP on the taxes we get back. So the taxes we sent to ottawa covered services for alberta + then you have the extra 9 billion, so ya thats carrying canada...

Remember, the GST collected 25 billion, the national budget is about 188 billion of which alberta's share .... corperate + income taxes + resourse revenues = 37 billion.

Alberta's popution of 3.5 billion out of canada's 33 million people = about 10% of the population whereas we give to canada about 20%, so I guess we give about as much as two people from BC would give. People from BC give about the same as they recieve. i wonder how much places such as PEI or quebec give....

Personally I cannot blame the maritimes for living in the depressed area they live in. I can blame areas like Quebec ,which on a per value basis has almost as much natural resourse value ($30 oil) as alberta but chooses not to exploit these resourses for whatever reason...

Remember, the GST collected 25 billion, the national budget is about 188 billion of which alberta's share .... corperate + income taxes + resourse revenues = 37 billion.

Alberta's popution of 3.5 billion out of canada's 33 million people = about 10% of the population whereas we give to canada about 20%, so I guess we give about as much as two people from BC would give. People from BC give about the same as they recieve. i wonder how much places such as PEI or quebec give....

Personally I cannot blame the maritimes for living in the depressed area they live in. I can blame areas like Quebec ,which on a per value basis has almost as much natural resourse value ($30 oil) as alberta but chooses not to exploit these resourses for whatever reason...

Don't forget that with Quebec theres a huge time differance.They're living 30 years behind the rest of Canada. :D

I was talking about the federal election where the liberals swept TO ~ ottawa and nothing else.

What 's " supposed " about the finances on the federal level? Alberta sends canada 9 bill more than it receives, canada has a 9 bill dollar surplus? What am I speaking in tongues here???


Ontario gives but 1 bill more than it receives....

But you know what I cant really talk now because King ralph's minions are always looking out for people who would dare question that we have no debt. His Secret police who police the secret debt could be coming to get me at any minute,,, :eek:


Yes, but that nine billion goes to the have not provinces. All the feds do is adminster the program.

Now, there was a guy on here complaining about offical bilingualism. I would like to remind you that, North America is one of the few places in the world in which a person can get away with knowing just one language. Many places around the world have to speak two or more languages.

Now, maybe your confused, why does Quebec only have one official language, well its takes some simple Canadian history to figure out why. During the negotiations for what would become the consitution act of 1982, Trudeau, the prime minster of the day, amoung other things, wanted a "charter of rights and freedoms" to be put into the constitution. However, the so called "gang of eight" which included all the provinces except Ontario and New Brunswick. One of the major sticking points for the "gang of eight" lied in the proposal for the charter itself. The reasoning for this varied from premier to premier and are too complicated to explain here. Anyways, as apart fo the compromise for the charter, the gang of eight demanded and got what is section 33 or better known as the "notwithstanding clause". Basically, this section allows the charter to be overridden by anyone using it. So, despite Quebec not signing on to that particularly constitutional act, it stilled applied to them. And now, Quebec uses that section so that, French can only be the offical language in Quebec. Now you know

Now,I think you need to think before you post from now own, is that a good rule, I think so.

So since I have received my french history leason, i can say, that extra 9 bill could be put to better use than sending cash to quebec for them to waste. Perhaps paying down the debt, rebuilding the military, more foreign aid, more money to education ~ health care ~ roads etc etc etc....

So since I have received my french history leason, i can say, that extra 9 bill could be put to better use than sending cash to quebec for them to waste. Perhaps paying down the debt, rebuilding the military, more foreign aid, more money to education ~ health care ~ roads etc etc etc....

actually, money is going to education and healthcare, and roads. The money is going to the other, "have not" provinces. Paying down the debt, rebuilding the military is Ottawa's problem. The extra nine billion that Alberta gives to equalization, goes to other provinces, not Ottawa. Ottawa raises its own taxes to pay for its programs.

So, to sum up my point here, the money is going into education and healthcare via the provinces.

P.S. that French history lesson, wasn't for you, it was New Jopolis, who seemed a bit confused about how history works in this country.

Uh huh and all the money alberta sends via income tax ~ corperate tax etc etc in not going into general revenue?

Uh huh and all the money alberta sends via income tax ~ corperate tax etc etc in not going into general revenue?

Uh, income tax and equalization payment work on two different levels. However, all Canadians pay income tax and all corporations in the country pay taxes. Alberta doesn't really carry the country anymore than anybody else. However, one could argue,that Ontario really carries cause they pay more in income tax each than anbody else as, they have the greatest population of any provice in the country.

actually, money is going to education and healthcare, and roads. The money is going to the other, "have not" provinces. Paying down the debt, rebuilding the military is Ottawa's problem. The extra nine billion that Alberta gives to equalization, goes to other provinces, not Ottawa. Ottawa raises its own taxes to pay for its programs.

So, to sum up my point here, the money is going into education and healthcare via the provinces.

P.S. that French history lesson, wasn't for you, it was New Jopolis, who seemed a bit confused about how history works in this country.

than you for that pointless lesson in history, arguably the most boring and over-analyzed event in the recent history of canada. it still doesn't explain why alberta can't use the notwithstanding clause in order to avoid paying far more than is fair and more than it receives from the rest of canda. after all, its alberta's money, so it should be under alberta's jurisdiction, just as quebec has its own language, and is placed under its jurisdiction. because this isn't true, it shows that canadian federalism is two-tiered and unfair to provinces not included in the initial constitution (BNA act), such as alberta. i hope i haven't appeared too confused over history.

than you for that pointless lesson in history, arguably the most boring and over-analyzed event in the recent history of canada. it still doesn't explain why alberta can't use the notwithstanding clause in order to avoid paying far more than is fair and more than it receives from the rest of canda. after all, its alberta's money, so it should be under alberta's jurisdiction, just as quebec has its own language, and is placed under its jurisdiction. because this isn't true, it shows that canadian federalism is two-tiered and unfair to provinces not included in the initial constitution (BNA act), such as alberta. i hope i haven't appeared too confused over history.

Useing the notwithstanding clause tells your voters that you are a government that will alter or void your rights....bad political move.

than you for that pointless lesson in history, arguably the most boring and over-analyzed event in the recent history of canada. it still doesn't explain why alberta can't use the notwithstanding clause in order to avoid paying far more than is fair and more than it receives from the rest of canda. after all, its alberta's money, so it should be under alberta's jurisdiction, just as quebec has its own language, and is placed under its jurisdiction. because this isn't true, it shows that canadian federalism is two-tiered and unfair to provinces not included in the initial constitution (BNA act), such as alberta. i hope i haven't appeared too confused over history.

Well sorry to bust your bubble, but alas, that history lesson wasn't to entertain you, it was to inform. I guess, you still seem a bit confused about how governence works in this country. Equalization payments, have nothing to do with the charter and thus, using the notwithstanding clause, would do no good in that regard. Quebec uses the notwithstanding clause because, they feel they are protecting the French language in Quebec. Personally, I don't agree with that and think its bullshit myself but, life goes on.

Candian federalism, two tiered, i'm not so sure i'm crying alot about that. I've always felt that Canadian government should be two levels, not eleven partners. Would you rather see the opposite, eleven partners and a weak central government?