NationStates Jolt Archive

I live in Alberta, Canada, a region know for it's cattle ranching, and unfortunately infamous now for the case of BSE (mad cow disease) that spurred the Americans to close the border to Canadian beef.

Some of the following issues I was already aware of, but after watching the latest The Nature of Things http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/show_apocalypsecow.html, I got a little more upset at the amount of government duplicity in terms of how this crisis is being managed.

BSE is a terrible disease and certainly something to be worried about. I am not going to argue that it shouldn't be dealt with. In fact, I want it to be dealt with to the furthest extent possible, but it seems that my own government would prefer to operate 'as usual', despite the economic (and health) consequences of doing so.

Health Canada scientists have been saying for some time that feeding rendered cow parts BACK to cows is unhealthy. When they became too vocal in their studies, they were fired. FIRED for doing what they were hired to do...ensure public safety.

A group of hundreds of farmers in Grand Prairie, Alberta, formed a co-op to raise, slaughter and sell their own beef, rather than go through the expensive, and heavily funded government approved slaughter houses. Why? Since the BSE crisis began, in May of 2003, small cattle ranches are being forced to sell off livestock at painfully low rates, because it costs more to feed those animals than what they're worth on the market. A cow that would have sold for about $1500 before the crisis can go for as low as $375 at cattle auctions. You can hardly get 50 cents a pound for your cow, and yet customers are still paying upwards of $20.00 per pound at the stores. Who gets the cut? The slaughter houses and supermarket chains.

These farmers decided that they would raise their cattle without the hormone injections and cannibalistic feed (where cattle parts are fed back to live cattle) used in large cattle operations. This feed is one of the causes of BSE, and although spinal and brain tissue is not supposed to be included in it, it is suspected that this is how BSE is being spread. They set up their own slaughtering facilities, and planned to test 100% of cows for BSE. The cost per cow would be $35. That compared to the hundreds of dollars lost per cow because of BSE uncertainty. Certainly this is a price farmers are willing to pay. They even arranged their own markets in Japan and Europe. Then, the government stepped in.

The Canadian government will not allow these farmers to sell their beef at a fair price. They will not allow them to test every animal, because they feel it is unnecessary. The government only tests 1% of a selected 5% of cows, and they don't want a small group of farmers setting government policy. They say that testing 100% would be too expensive. Compared to what? To the incredible loss of revenue, and the crippling of the cattle industry? To the billion dollars of subsidies, handed out in most part to the large feed lots and slaughterhouses? (A friend of mine with a hundred head of cattle receive $60 in subsidies to help her 'weather the BSE storm'.) Farmers are more than willing to pay the $35 per head to test every single animal; the only bill the government would have to foot would be the labs and technicians. If they really wanted to, they could raise that amount to $100 to cover those costs, and farmers would STILL be willing to pay it, rather than losing $1200 per animal. This farmer's co-op is stuck in the courts, battling it out with the government because they want a fair price for their cattle, and want to be able to guarantee that each animal is free of BSE.

Japan has 100% testing of cattle for BSE, and Europe is pretty close. It hasn't hurt them...instead it has guaranteed consumer confidence. For health reasons, and financial ones, 100% testing makes sense. Why then is our government acting so foolishly?

This isn't just a Canadian problem. The U.S, with its huge feed lots, hormone injections and tainted feed ALSO has problems with BSE. Both our countries are unsure as to how widespread it is, because so few animals are tested. Neither country has stringent testing, or strong restrictions on feed with cow parts being fed back to cows. Unfortunately for the small producers, and the consumers, the large feed lots and slaughterhouses have most of the political power. They don't want these kinds of restrictions, because it would hurt their production. However, as a consumer of beef, I would be more than willing to pay the price for beef that was raised on a healthy diet, without hormone injections, and that had been proven to be clear of BSE.

What do you think?

What do you think?

Sounds like George W. Bush and the leaders of Canada all went to the same school teaching the "ignore everything I don't want to hear so that I can please my corporate buddies, no matter what the science says" way of governing.

I chose all of the above options.

I like meat.

Sounds like George W. Bush and the leaders of Canada all went to the same school teaching the "ignore everything I don't want to hear so that I can please my corporate buddies, no matter what the science says" way of governing.

Same school? I thought all the various schools taught the same crapola. Someone on another thread told me they're in economics, and they're being taught that self-interest is the sole valid motivating force in the world today.

*projectile vomiting commences*

I chose all of the above options.
Ah Von..you're such a trouble maker!

Ah Von..you're such a trouble maker!
Thank you.

Thank you.
So seriously...would you choose to buy beef laxly tested under government guidelines over 100% tested beef? And why, when this crisis broke out, was it discovered that we were all eating New Zealand beef, not Alberta beef anyway? Is it really cheaper to ship in beef from another country rather than eat something produced at home? If New Zealand guaranteed 100% testing, then I'd choose it over Alberta beef that didn't. For the rest of the time, I'd rather support our industry. (starts up the BBQ)

I'm thinking of giving up meat altogehter but not 'cause the government is unsafe with it.

As far as I'm concerned I'm just gonna eat seafood the rest of my life - it's a helluva lot safer than meat and a lot healthier

I think they are keeping it safe, however, they aren't being as stringent as possible. They don't have to be. If the BSE problem was as bad in the USA and Canada as it was in the UK, there should be more testing. Right now, at least in the USA, I don't think we need to maximize testing simply because one cow, possibly two, had the disease.

So seriously...would you choose to buy beef laxly tested under government guidelines over 100% tested beef? And why, when this crisis broke out, was it discovered that we were all eating New Zealand beef, not Alberta beef anyway? Is it really cheaper to ship in beef from another country rather than eat something produced at home? If New Zealand guaranteed 100% testing, then I'd choose it over Alberta beef that didn't. For the rest of the time, I'd rather support our industry. (starts up the BBQ)
Same here. When Britain had it's crisis I bought Argentinian beef. Or pork.

I think they are keeping it safe, however, they aren't being as stringent as possible. They don't have to be. If the BSE problem was as bad in the USA and Canada as it was in the UK, there should be more testing. Right now, at least in the USA, I don't think we need to maximize testing simply because one cow, possibly two, had the disease.

That we KNOW OF. The way that cows are slaughtered often makes it impossible to trace back even if contamination is found. Here, when a farmer sells their cows, the spinal cord and brain are left to be disposed of by the farmer. If that cow has BSE, you no longer have the ability to test it (as brain tissue is generally used to do so). Also, cross contamination from improper cleaning procedures means that once healthy meat can become dangerous, and impossible to test. Why SHOULDN'T the government be more stringent? The issue of cost is moot...make the ranchers pay the testing price! Make sure slaughterhouses follow stricter health measures. Japan started 100% testing a couple of years ago, and has since found 14 cases of BSE. Only 14. However, when you start to think that Japan has way less cattle than either Canada or the U.S, you have to consider that we have many times that number of cases that are not being discovered. The testing has not hurt the beef industry in Japan. I honestly don't see a valid argument for being lax in such a serious situation.

I'm thinking of giving up meat altogehter but not 'cause the government is unsafe with it.

As far as I'm concerned I'm just gonna eat seafood the rest of my life - it's a helluva lot safer than meat and a lot healthier

Except for the fact that doing so would probably give you mercury poisoning.

Mmmmmm forbidden hamburger.

That we KNOW OF. The way that cows are slaughtered often makes it impossible to trace back even if contamination is found. Here, when a farmer sells their cows, the spinal cord and brain are left to be disposed of by the farmer. If that cow has BSE, you no longer have the ability to test it (as brain tissue is generally used to do so). Also, cross contamination from improper cleaning procedures means that once healthy meat can become dangerous, and impossible to test. Why SHOULDN'T the government be more stringent? The issue of cost is moot...make the ranchers pay the testing price! Make sure slaughterhouses follow stricter health measures. Japan started 100% testing a couple of years ago, and has since found 14 cases of BSE. Only 14. However, when you start to think that Japan has way less cattle than either Canada or the U.S, you have to consider that we have many times that number of cases that are not being discovered. The testing has not hurt the beef industry in Japan. I honestly don't see a valid argument for being lax in such a serious situation.
How do you know farmers would be so willing to test their animals? If there was such a wide-open market for it, I would think someone would develop it. The issue of cost is not moot. The ranchers would be calling for universal testing if they wanted it so bad, if they were willing to pay for it the government would have no problem with it. As it is I doubt the assumption that they would be willing to pay $100 a head for testing.

Anyone who trusts their government with their food should read Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. It may have been written 40 years ago, but the U.S. government hasn't changed that much since...

The Mad Cow Disease is an enourmos danger. The disease itself, and the human variant (croitzfeld yacob or something like that) are crippling diseases, that have a totally random period of incubation, that goes from anything from 1 month to 20 years.. anyone of us can be infected and not know it. Beef must be totally tested, and the meat tracked, from the cow from which was taken, to the place where it was sold. Its expensive, but it is the only way to protect consumers from harm.

The Mad Cow Disease is an enourmos danger. The disease itself, and the human variant (croitzfeld yacob or something like that) are crippling diseases, that have a totally random period of incubation, that goes from anything from 1 month to 20 years.. anyone of us can be infected and not know it. Beef must be totally tested, and the meat tracked, from the cow from which was taken, to the place where it was sold. Its expensive, but it is the only way to protect consumers from harm.
I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I admit, I have forgotten a lot about mad cow disease, but it's called bovine spongiform encephalopathy, and is a mammalian prion (contraction of "proteinaceous infectious particle") is a type of self-replicating protein. I still don't understand how that works...and I don't think many people do. And as to the incubation period...I admit that it's possible that it could potentially range from a month to two decades, but that is so unlikely I can't even express it. Nothin has an incubation period that variable that I'm aware if.

And if you think that BSE is an enormous danger, I think perhaps you should pay a little more attention to the chemicals we're using in our world and to the genetically altered produce you probably consume daily, the full effects of which we have no f**king idea of. It's like when we started using pesticides all over, and didn't quite know what we were doing. We're doind the same thing all over again.

How do you know farmers would be so willing to test their animals? If there was such a wide-open market for it, I would think someone would develop it. The issue of cost is not moot. The ranchers would be calling for universal testing if they wanted it so bad, if they were willing to pay for it the government would have no problem with it. As it is I doubt the assumption that they would be willing to pay $100 a head for testing.
You need to read the rest of the posts again. Farmers ARE calling for it...vociferously! They have gone through the trouble to set it up themselves...and then had the government squash it. Any rancher I have spoken to about this has said, "PLEASE charge the price per head if it will guarantee a higher price for beef in the market!". It's common sense...$100 (a number I quoted to offset government cost so they couldn't keep saying "it's too expensive; the actual test is only $35) compared to $1200 dollars lost PER ANIMAL because of the fear of BSE.

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I admit, I have forgotten a lot about mad cow disease, but it's called bovine spongiform encephalopathy, and is a mammalian prion (contraction of "proteinaceous infectious particle") is a type of self-replicating protein. I still don't understand how that works...and I don't think many people do. And as to the incubation period...I admit that it's possible that it could potentially range from a month to two decades, but that is so unlikely I can't even express it. Nothin has an incubation period that variable that I'm aware if.

And if you think that BSE is an enormous danger, I think perhaps you should pay a little more attention to the chemicals we're using in our world and to the genetically altered produce you probably consume daily, the full effects of which we have no f**king idea of. It's like when we started using pesticides all over, and didn't quite know what we were doing. We're doind the same thing all over again.

You've brought up a good point though...no one knows much about BSE. It has been shown that BSE is passed through cross contamination with brain or spinal tissue. It does not 'jump' from cow to human magically. Cows get it by eating the rendered brain and spinal tissues of other cows (put into their feed). This practice has been banned for years, but obviously still continues. More stringent regulations are needed to prevent this, and decontamination at the slaughtering and packaging level is also important.

That being said, there is a real fear that DAIRY COWS, not BEEF cows are the real danger here. Infected cows can pass the protein into their milk. The jury is still out as to whether the protein is destroyed during pasturization or not, and yet no one is screaming about dairy cattle. As well, the products you need to be worried about as a beef consumer is not necessarily the meat itself, as the protein rarely survives exposure to a heat source. You need to be more worried about processed meats such as head cheese (which uses brain tissue) and beef by-products using spinal or brain tissue that are not cooked. It is not known how long the protein will remain active in these by-products (such as jello and marshmallows, which use gelatin often derived in part from brain tissue). Unfortunately, with so many of these things (pesticides, genetic altering of food), we do not know the long term consequences. It seems we will only regulate these things when it is absolutely proven to be a health hazard, rather than being proactive and cleaning up our act BEFORE it causes damage. Kind of like asbestos.

Grrrrrr.

All I know on the matter is that Britain had the whole BSE thing a while back now... and we've managed to sort it out and british beef is now safe to eat again. WOOOO! But yes, BSE is a horrible disease when it affects humans... I've never seen how it affects the animals themselves... But meh...

Sort it out and then plague American cows with it... so they won't have much choice but to buy your beef. It makes up for what how it's affecting you now. :P

Nah, just kidding... obviously. Not being a farmer or rural and being too young to remember the outbreak here, I can't really have a say... but this should be an informative thread.

Rendered cow parts are NOT FED to other cows. That hasnt occured for 10 years.

PIGs are fed to cows as cows are fed to pigs. You must feed non cow protein to your cow.

I guess the only way to be safe is to have your own ranch, grow your own vegetables.

There's no 100% way of testing every single cow. It's not effecient. Most they can possibly do is test maybe a few cows from every single farm. But that doesn't gurantee you will catch BSE as well.

BSE is a bad disease, but there millions other viruses out there just as bad.

Rendered cow parts are NOT FED to other cows. That hasnt occured for 10 years.

PIGs are fed to cows as cows are fed to pigs. You must feed non cow protein to your cow.

Yes, those are the rules. However, when the BSE crisis broke out, inspectors randomly checked feed bags and found that many of them DID indeed contain cow protein from brain and spinal tissue. Despite the rules. You know...like how people steal, even though it's against the law. To make sure these cows don't slip through the system, testing is needed, and a good tracking system. As well, slaughterhouses need to thoroughly clean out the spinal and brain tissues, and sterilize all cleaning areas before allowing the next carcass to be brought in, to stop cross-contamination. Rendered cow parts not only are fed to cows, and pigs, but also poultry and fish (salmon farms). Some of that proteing, despite the rules, is likely to contain spinal and brain tissue.

In any case...do you want animal protein to be fed to non-carnivorous animals? Pigs are omnivorous, but farmers generally avoid feeding them too much meat, because it affects the taste. That's generally why we don't eat carnivores. They taste bad.

I guess the only way to be safe is to have your own ranch, grow your own vegetables.

There's no 100% way of testing every single cow. It's not effecient. Most they can possibly do is test maybe a few cows from every single farm. But that doesn't gurantee you will catch BSE as well.


There absolutely is a way to test every animal. The test takes 8 hours to process. Japan has 100% testing, and Europe is near 75%. It is certainly more effecient than the massive culls (slaughter and burning of cows) caused by the 'fear' of BSE. It is also much more cost effective.
BSE is a bad disease, but there millions other viruses out there just as bad.
This doesn't even deserve comment.

You need to read the rest of the posts again. Farmers ARE calling for it...vociferously! They have gone through the trouble to set it up themselves...and then had the government squash it. Any rancher I have spoken to about this has said, "PLEASE charge the price per head if it will guarantee a higher price for beef in the market!". It's common sense...$100 (a number I quoted to offset government cost so they couldn't keep saying "it's too expensive; the actual test is only $35) compared to $1200 dollars lost PER ANIMAL because of the fear of BSE.
I read the post and I didn't see anything to show that the ranchers are calling for such measures en masse. I can say the sky is green but that dosen't make it true.

And how often would BSE testing go on? Once per cow lifetime? Once a year? Once a month?

I read the post and I didn't see anything to show that the ranchers are calling for such measures en masse. I can say the sky is green but that dosen't make it true.

And how often would BSE testing go on? Once per cow lifetime? Once a year? Once a month?

Ranchers are so serious about the testing that they have begun forming co-ops to do it themselves. There is a huge one in Grand Prairie, and others around small town Alberta. You don't hear these things, because they are only newsworthy enough to get snippets through the media.

To educate you a little on the process of testing...so far the only way to test an animal for BSE is when it's dead. You have to test brain tissue. So the testing would be one time. Cows are generally slaughtered when they are no older than 1 year old. Three is the maximum, but are very rarely sold at that age because the meat is tough. The ideal age to slaughter a cow is eigth months. The best meat is veal, which is usually from a steer (castrated bull) no older than 3 or 4 months. Their lifetimes are pretty short.

AS someone who worked in a rendering plant, it would be possible to have "traces" of cow brains etc in cow feed even when you are to feed non cow protein to your cow.

However, the odds of BSE getting into the feed is pretty damm slim. I will tell you about the process of rendering.
1) A dump truck comes in with guts, bones, brains etc etc and dumps it into a GIANT pit with a huge corkscrew that grinds up the big stuff and pulls it up this belt.
1A) If a "deadstock" animal show up, dead stock being, a cow or horse that died of cold sickness etc, after it is checked out by a doctor, the carcas is skinned and then throw into the pit after getting mushed up by a aguger. That cow skin is made into crappy leather products like work gloves :)

2) The guts, bones etc get pulled into a giant "musher" which mashes all the bones, guts into little bits, then this slush gets pulled into a :

3) Fluildizier tank, basically a giant cooking pot which turns all that rotten guts into a type of goo and cooks this crap at a really high temp.

4) the chunks still left in the goo are seperated out, bleach and other chemicals are added and then the lipids, proteins etc are filitered out.

5) lipids (fats) are used for paints, plastics and other products.

6) Proteins are usally made into a dry dust like feed for farm animals and is actually very clean, humans could eat it, why you would want to though lol.

7) blood, pigs, chickens are go through a similar process but you dont mix the different by products. OF course some crap gets left over after each process but after that long process, i dont see bse being a problem.


Best job i ever had while i was in highschoool LOL

1 bloody cow and they shut down the border for a couple of years. It's just cause all the American Ranchers don't want it re-opened cuz it means competition for them. And all those ranchers voted for Bush and a Republican Senator and Congressman.

Whats funny is alot of jobs in the states depend on canada's cows. Lots of job will be lost as canada keep building packing plants + eventually cows will get into the states. Not whole cows but cut meats....

That being said, there is a real fear that DAIRY COWS, not BEEF cows are the real danger here. Infected cows can pass the protein into their milk. The jury is still out as to whether the protein is destroyed during pasturization or not, and yet no one is screaming about dairy cattle.
Holy crap, that had never even occured to me... That would be quite a wake-up call if it is proven that BSE can be passed on through the milk.

But on nearly everything else you said, I wish with every fibre of my being that more people thought like you do. Yes, every cell in my body wants it--even the erythrocytes without nuclei.

AS someone who worked in a rendering plant, it would be possible to have "traces" of cow brains etc in cow feed even when you are to feed non cow protein to your cow.

However, the odds of BSE getting into the feed is pretty damm slim. OF course some crap gets left over after each process but after that long process, i dont see bse being a problem.


Best job i ever had while i was in highschoool LOL

Ewww. Really. Oh well. Odds being slim though they are, it is still happening. Now, we can't blame ALL BSE cases on tainted feed (though I have to admit being a little unclear on the other ways of passing it along...), but frankly, all those guts and bones and brains should be kept until the animal that provided them has been tested. THEN we can go and make yummy 'beef' hotdogs. Eww again.

Ewww. Really. Oh well. Odds being slim though they are, it is still happening. Now, we can't blame ALL BSE cases on tainted feed (though I have to admit being a little unclear on the other ways of passing it along...), but frankly, all those guts and bones and brains should be kept until the animal that provided them has been tested. THEN we can go and make yummy 'beef' hotdogs. Eww again.
Yeah, learning how some of your food is prepared can be disgusting at times...

Ewww. Really. Oh well. Odds being slim though they are, it is still happening. Now, we can't blame ALL BSE cases on tainted feed (though I have to admit being a little unclear on the other ways of passing it along...), but frankly, all those guts and bones and brains should be kept until the animal that provided them has been tested. THEN we can go and make yummy 'beef' hotdogs. Eww again.


NO NO NO LOL!!! This crap aint fed to humans! lol

Its animal feed or industrial products, it is not going into your hot dogs.

What is going into your hot dogs if your lucky is chuck meat, if ummm your not so lucky, organ meats and tripe! :cool:

NO NO NO LOL!!! This crap aint fed to humans! lol

Its animal feed or industrial products, it is not going into your hot dogs.

What is going into your hot dogs if your lucky is chuck meat, if ummm your not so lucky, organ meats and tripe! :cool:
Still gross...man, if I was a cow, I wouldn't want to eat my sister. Ewwww.:)

Mmmm...tripe...