NationStates Jolt Archive

I made a thread last night where I said that people are Gay because God wanted them to be Gay and that punishing them for it makes no sense. People responded with the usual "Then it's okay to murder somebody because God wanted it to happen?" and "That means all wars are good because God wants them to happen." etc. I realise that I wasn't very clear in my other thread, so I'm making this one as an explanation.

Unless I have completely misunderstood human sexuality, you are gay/straight even if you don't have gay/straight sex. I'm a virgin, never had sex with a woman, but I'm still straight. Therefor somebody is gay even if they haven't had gay sex. Being gay or straight isn't a decision a person can make for themselves. Regardless of how you act you are still what you are.

A murderer might be born with the impulse to murder, but if he doesn't act on it then he isn't a murderer. Wars might happen, but only if people make the choice to go to war. Homosexuality isn't a choice, even if you chose not to act upon it you're still gay. That is why I feel that religous condemnation for homosexuality is wrong, because it's not a choice that a person can make.

I hope this helps clear up my other thread (which I think is still at the front of the forums)

How about pre-emptive punishment? Sounds right, dunnit?

Even theologians and ministers are stating that homosexuality is not a choice and not a sin.....................

The Phoenix Declaration (2003) was signed by 86 ordained religious leaders representing in descending numerical order, the United Methodist, United Church of Christ, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Unitarian-Universalist, Episcopal and Metropolitan Community Church traditions of Christianity. Opening this Declaration was the rather bold but accurate claim that the debate on homosexuality in our society “is over” and that the verdict “is clear.”

“As Christian clergy we believe it is time to share our perspective concerning gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) persons,” they began. “Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin,” they continued. “GLBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God. We are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of GLBT persons in our churches and in the world.” They went on to state their opposition to those religious persons who continue to condemn and exclude homosexual persons while calling that behavior “Christian.” The “Christian faith compels us,” they concluded, “to be part of the healing for the souls wounded by this tragic violent and destructive hatred.”

You can read the full text from this website : http://nolongersilent.org

A murderer might be born with the impulse to murder, but if he doesn't act on it then he isn't a murderer. Wars might happen, but only if people make the choice to go to war. Homosexuality isn't a choice, even if you chose not to act upon it you're still gay. That is why I feel that religous condemnation for homosexuality is wrong, because it's not a choice that a person can make.

Anotherwards people that condemn any other soul for something that God
wanted to happen is not condemning the person but God and the choices God makes. That would seem to be an eye opener that maybe we shouldn't assume with judgement because we may be judging God.

Then let us judge God. The Heretics shall inherit the Earth.

Anotherwards people that condemn any other soul for something that God
wanted to happen is not condemning the person but God and the choices God makes. That would seem to be an eye opener that maybe we shouldn't assume with judgement because we may be judging God.

Why wouldn't we want to judge god?

Unless I have completely misunderstood human sexuality, you are gay/straight even if you don't have gay/straight sex. I'm a virgin, never had sex with a woman, but I'm still straight. Therefor somebody is gay even if they haven't had gay sex. Being gay or straight isn't a decision a person can make for themselves. Regardless of how you act you are still what you are.

A murderer might be born with the impulse to murder, but if he doesn't act on it then he isn't a murderer. Wars might happen, but only if people make the choice to go to war. Homosexuality isn't a choice, even if you chose not to act upon it you're still gay. That is why I feel that religous condemnation for homosexuality is wrong, because it's not a choice that a person can make.

I don't get it - a murderer isn't a murderer until he acts on his impulse, but a gay is gay, even though he doesn't act on his gay impulse? Doesn't make sense.

Why wouldn't we want to judge god?

You can if you want, it don't mean shit im sure. When people say that God knows what is best for you, do you think it means a uniformity (uninformed) approach as a bible may want? I believe that God see's our religious writings & teachings as biased as michael moore and anne coulter. When we limit with a labeled formality saying only those that do this or that are true believers, we instantly become less of a person by wanting others to not be themselves but a clone of yourself. Selfish, kind of how we use politics as a crutch to form our opinions from someone elses.

I don't get it - a murderer isn't a murderer until he acts on his impulse, but a gay is gay, even though he doesn't act on his gay impulse? Doesn't make sense.

Because a murderer is somebody who has commited murder, a gay person is someone with gay feelings. What's not to get?

I don't get it - a murderer isn't a murderer until he acts on his impulse, but a gay is gay, even though he doesn't act on his gay impulse? Doesn't make sense.

So you're not straight until you have sex with another straight person of the opposite sex?

Unless I have completely misunderstood human sexuality, you are gay/straight even if you don't have gay/straight sex. I'm a virgin, never had sex with a woman, but I'm still straight. Therefor somebody is gay even if they haven't had gay sex. Being gay or straight isn't a decision a person can make for themselves. Regardless of how you act you are still what you are.

*sigh*
how fantastically concise, and all encompassing your summation of the gay/straight split is, even though you have NEVER had a sexual experience. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry kloner, but this decision about who is gay can not be reached through pure reasoning alone.
I agree that a person CAN be born gay, but there are many instances where a person can become gay, or acquire gay feelings towards members of the same sex.
For example: In Samoa, there is always one son of a large extended family that is conditioned by the family to become the "fa'fa'fine" - who is a man that becomes a woman, who does not have sex with men. -- Further examples include a high percentage of female rape victims who loose all feelings of sexuality towards males, and only become sexually aroused by other female. In all definitions, they are effectively 'gay'.

I just don't get why we care if someone loves penis or vagina? Who knows maybe there really are people out there that don't like either? Or maybe there is somebody that loves it all? Or who knows but most of all who cares? Our self-righteousness gleams when we pass such stupid judgement on peoples preferences. Politics, all politics

Indeed, why do we care? Gay people would be quite happy if the issue just disappeared and everybody decided to be nice to each other without caring who everyone else is attracted to!