NationStates Jolt Archive

Of the 30 conflicts now under way in the world, 28 concern Muslim governments or communities.

Amir Taheri, an Iranian author and journalist, says two-thirds of the world’s political prisoners are held in Muslim countries.

80 percent of all executions each year are carried out in Muslim nations.

Wahhabism, a radical form of Islam with a creed that claims all “innovation” is a grave sin against Islam, has gained such influence in the Muslim world that if a fair election were held for Prime Minister in Saudi Arabia it is very likely Osama bin Laden would win.

Where is the Islamic Gandhi to stand up for Islam as a movement of peace and justice? Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King, Jr. to lead the majority of the world's 1.2 million Muslims into a 21st century of civil rights and civil liberty?

There are voices starting to speak out against this fundamentalism. Soon we will see an internal clash of Islamic culture, if not already.

"Where there is love, there is life."

- Gandhi

The Islamics just need to learn to love. That's all. Once they stop listening to the narrow-minded fanatic "holy men" and see the potential for peace and love in the world, then all will be mended.

"Where there is love, there is life."

- Gandhi

The Islamics just need to learn to love. That's all. Once they stop listening to the narrow-minded fanatic "holy men" and see the potential for peace and love in the world, then all will be mended.

So you figure the world's 1.2 billion Muslims just have never been clued into the concept of love, eh?

The Arabic word for love (actually there are several - rafah, rahmah, wudda, hub, etc.) appears frequently in the Qur'an, on average about once in every 15 aya'h (verses).

I have a simlar question.
Where is the Muslim Wayne Gretzky?

The person has to appear from the middle east.

What do you guys think about the new moderate party in Egypt? Al-Ghad of that political party.

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=32132

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/07/10/MNGM77JBUE1.DTL

Their preaching progressive and moderate Islam, however their getting criticised because the people think it's some American propoganda party trying to infiltrate their political system. But I hear they have ties with other 'shady' parties.

bump

I'm putting my money on Yusuf Islam. He better get his anarcho-pacifist arse into gear sharpish.

I have another question:

Where is the Muslim Mike Tyson?

No, wait...

I have another question:

Where is the Muslim Mike Tyson?

No, wait...

Or better yet, where is the Muslim Malcolm X?

Or better yet, where is the Muslim Malcolm X?

Yeah, I'm still waiting for the Muslim Mohamed, too.

I'm waiting for a Muslim Yoda. Now that'd be funny! Some little green dude running around yelling Jihad! Jihad!

Just hope he doesn't have a light saber or can use to force like Yoda. Then we'd be screwed.

"These aren't the terrorists you are looking for"

Not that I'm saying all Muslims are terrorists or that they're all green or anything stupid like that.

I'm waiting for a Muslim Yoda. Now that'd be funny! Some little green dude running around yelling Jihad! Jihad!

Just hope he doesn't have a light saber or can use to force like Yoda. Then we'd be screwed.

"These aren't the terrorists you are looking for"

Not that I'm saying all Muslims are terrorists or that they're all green or anything stupid like that.

but you are saying they have magical powers...:)

Of the 30 conflicts now under way in the world, 28 concern Muslim governments or communities.

Amir Taheri, an Iranian author and journalist, says two-thirds of the world’s political prisoners are held in Muslim countries.

80 percent of all executions each year are carried out in Muslim nations.

Wahhabism, a radical form of Islam with a creed that claims all “innovation” is a grave sin against Islam, has gained such influence in the Muslim world that if a fair election were held for Prime Minister in Saudi Arabia it is very likely Osama bin Laden would win.

Where is the Islamic Gandhi to stand up for Islam as a movement of peace and justice? Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King, Jr. to lead the majority of the world's 1.2 million Muslims into a 21st century of civil rights and civil liberty?

There's Ayaan Hirsi Ali:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3322399.stm

I've already said this before when someone asked the same question.
There could be a Muslim MLK, but the media (lib and con) wouldn't give them any airtime anyways, even if they did exist. He could speak all he wants, but it wouldn't be televised. With a population as large as the Muslim world, I'm sure there are some great leaders out there who'd be worth hearing from.
It just doesn't sell as well as Muslim Madmen and suicide bombers.

There was an Islamic Gandhi named Abdul Ghaffar Khan, but he has been dead for 16 years.

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Religion/islamicgandhi.html

Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King?
He was shot fifteen times on February 21, 1965

There's Ayaan Hirsi Ali:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3322399.stm

Heh, she's on the run in the Netherlands from Muslim extremists after making a movie on the oppression of women in Islam called "Submission" with Theo Van Gogh. We should all know what happened to Theo Van Gogh. Strangely, the deputy mayor of either Rotterdam or Amsterdam who is also a moderate muslim but has not done anything yet is also getting death threats from radical Muslims. Then again all of Dutch paraliament is getting death threats from radical Muslims. Taught them to have such lax immigration policies.

The best reason I conclude why there is not many moderate Muslims is that the majority of Muslims outside Arabia are total blind believers because they don't speak Arabic, Quran is written in Arabic, and there is no availiable translations for them. Here's proof of that.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/behrouz.htm

There's many more testamonials like that as well on that site.

But when someone does read the Quran and tries to bring to light to the world what it really says, some extremist leader always counters with "That means something different in the original Arabic" and somehow the world always believes that person without further investigation.

Another reason why it is so hard to find moderates in the Islamic world is because extremists actively participate in Taqiyya and Kitman or the Islamic art of deception.

Luckily for us, like 2500 Muslim intellectuals sent some petition off to the UN condemning terrorism. The only thing wrong is that they went to the UN, they should know not to expect the UN to do anything. Now they are being threatened by the extremist Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi.

Then, there are two groups of moderate Muslims here in the US who seem genuinely real in their attempts to counter the extremists, even to the people who run Faithfreedom.org and jihadwatch.org .

These two organizations are :

The American Islamic Forum for Democracy (http://www.aifdemocracy.org/)

The Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism (http://www.freemuslims.org/about/mansour.php)

So there is still a glimmer of hope for the Islamic world.

I figure if extremism were to cool down in other countries, it would probably cool down elsewhere.

He was shot fifteen times on February 21, 1965
despite the fact that MLK was a Baptist...

despite the fact that MLK was a Baptist...

PSST hey buddy.

Malcom X died that day.

;)

PSST hey buddy.

Malcom X died that day.

;)
ahh, I foolish.

Or better yet, where is the Muslim Malcolm X?

Osama bin Ladin.

Osama bin Ladin.

That is a terrible, inaccurate smear on Malcolm X.

That is a terrible, inaccurate smear on Malcolm X.

Not really. Malcolm X advocated violence and terrorism as a way of attempting to achieve equality.

Osama bin Ladin also believes that he is fighting against oppression and he is also attempting to do so through violoence and terrorism.

ah, but by the end of his life Malcolm X began to change to a softer belief, a more passive means of change.

ah, but by the end of his life Malcolm X began to change to a softer belief, a more passive means of change.

Perhaps, but when people say "where is the Malcolm X of ..." they are not referring to the old guy who had changed his ways.

Not really. Malcolm X advocated violence and terrorism as a way of attempting to achieve equality.

Osama bin Ladin also believes that he is fighting against oppression and he is also attempting to do so through violoence and terrorism.

Malcolm X advocated defending oneself. In that he was no different than George Washinton. After converting to Islam he never once committed an act of violence. Saying Malcom X and bin Laden are the same is like saying there is no difference between George W. Bush and Adolf Hitler just because both believe in using pre-emptive military strikes.

Malcolm X advocated defending oneself. In that he was no different than George Washinton. After converting to Islam he never once committed an act of violence. Saying Malcom X and bin Laden are the same is like saying there is no difference between George W. Bush and Adolf Hitler just because both believe in using pre-emptive military strikes.

I wasn't speaking of late-in-life Malcolm X.

And no, he did not simply advocate defending oneself earlier in life. He advocated specific violence and terrorism against whites as "revenge" for the way that black people were treated. This is no different than Osama advocating violence and terrorism against Christians and Americans as "revenge" for the way he believes Muslims have been treated.

Where is the Muslim Billy Connolly?

Malcolm X was a keeper of prostitutes. A pimp. What a hero!

I wasn't speaking of late-in-life Malcolm X.

And no, he did not simply advocate defending oneself earlier in life. He advocated specific violence and terrorism against whites as "revenge" for the way that black people were treated. This is no different than Osama advocating violence and terrorism against Christians and Americans as "revenge" for the way he believes Muslims have been treated.

"We are never aggressors. We will not attack anyone. We strive for peaceful relationships with everyone. BUT--[we teach our people that] if anyone attacks you, lay down your life! ' Every Muslim is taught never to (initiate a] fight. Respect another man's life rights whether he is white, black, brown, yellow or what-.--not! Respect him as a - man. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!" Never be the aggressor, never look for trouble. But if any man molests you, may Allah bless you!"

- Malcolm X

Please find me one instance of Malcom X committing violence or inciting someone else to commit violence, other than in self-defense.

"We are never aggressors. We will not attack anyone. We strive for peaceful relationships with everyone. BUT--[we teach our people that] if anyone attacks you, lay down your life! ' Every Muslim is taught never to (initiate a] fight. Respect another man's life rights whether he is white, black, brown, yellow or what-.--not! Respect him as a - man. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!" Never be the aggressor, never look for trouble. But if any man molests you, may Allah bless you!"

- Malcolm X

Please find me one instance of Malcom X committing violence or insighting someone else to commit violence, other than in self-defense.

A quote that came late in life, after he went on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

Apparently, you are not familiar with the "black power" movement. Perhaps you should read a little history.

A quote that came late in life, after he went on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

Apparently, you are not familiar with the "black power" movement. Perhaps you should read a little history.

Thanks for your sarcasm. I'll keep it in mind (I teach history).

Still waiting for you to produce evidence of Malcom X involved in violence?

In response to, "Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King?"...six feet under in my back yard along with hundreds of other political oposition leaders of the Empire of Presidencys past.

Thanks for your sarcasm. I'll keep it in mind (I teach history).

Still waiting for you to produce evidence of Malcom X involved in violence?

The entire black power movement was entrenched in violence. Malcolm X himself stated that he was violent towards all whites previous to his trip to Mecca, where he worshipped with people of all races and became more tolerant.

Hooray! A stupid joke I make about a Muslim version of Malcolm X (who was Islamic) turns into a discussion! I am not going to stop the argument. This is a worthwhile thing to debate.



...I thought it was funny :(

The entire black power movement was entrenched in violence. Malcolm X himself stated that he was violent towards all whites previous to his trip to Mecca, where he worshipped with people of all races and became more tolerant.

Great. Then it should not be difficult for you to produce a quote or a historical instance when Malcom X participated in violence, incited violence, or advocated violence other than as a defense.

Just post it when you have some evidence.

(I'll let someone else call you on the inaccuaracy of the "entire black power movement" being "entrenched in violence," because I know you will have your hands full looking for the Malcom X citation)

"We are never aggressors. We will not attack anyone. We strive for peaceful relationships with everyone. BUT-[we teach our people that] if anyone attacks you, lay down your life! ' Every Muslim is taught never to (initiate a] fight. Respect another man's life rights whether he is white, black, brown, yellow or what-not! Respect him as a - man. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!" Never be the aggressor, never look for trouble. But if any man molests you, may Allah bless you!"

- Malcolm X

By the way, Malcom X made this statement in 1960. His hajj to Mecca was in 1964.

You might want to read Walter Lippman's article about the media's distortion of Malcom X as a violent man.

How The New York Times Distorted
Malcolm X's Views on Self-Defense
by Walter Lippmann

http://www.walterlippmann.com/mx-nyt.html

Malcolm X was a keeper of prostitutes. A pimp. What a hero!

No, you are referring to Malcolm Little, who also was involved in drug dealing, gambling, racketeering, and robbery, the latter for which he spent eight years in jail.

Upon his release from prison he renounced that life and became Malcolm X. He never hid his former transgressions and in fact used them as an example of a person's ability to change.

To me a person who can overcome a terrible past and change for the better is a hero.