NationStates Jolt Archive

I am not happy Bush won, I hate the man, he is an idiot and is driving the country and parts of the world down with him. However there is one reason I am happy he won, and only one. He is pissing off Europeans, thats it, they have been so annoying on this forum, that is why I dont like most Europeans, they are all like, oh thats not how you vote, thats not how you run a country, there are even people who come onto these forums and announce that they are anti-American just because of some of the moves our government makes, I have always liked Europe and Europeans in general, but now I only like Europe, I dislike the Europeans, just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.

And you may say, oh yeah heres an American trying to piss off other countries, but no. You pushed me so close to the edge that I am simply expressing my opinions.

a lot of you seem to not understand what I am saying. Im not saying that our government is all good and nice and all that, Im just saying your preaching to the wrong quire. If you want to talk to Bush supporters and tell them how to vote, go to some pro-Bush website. This is mostly anti-Bush.

there are some americans who are assholes.

there are some europeans who are assholes.

really, it doesn't matter your nationality. they're just assholes in different ways. but being anti-american because of the american government is not justified. but neither is being anti-european people, or not liking them in some way, because of people on these forums.

there are some americans who are assholes.

there are some europeans who are assholes.

really, it doesn't matter your nationality. they're just assholes in different ways. but being anti-american because of the american government is not justified. but neither is being anti-european people, or not liking them in some way, because of people on these forums.

All Im saying is, Im givin a bad impression, but in Italy most of them seemed very nice, so its not always.

hey, i think its disgusting when other countries try and tell us who to vote for and want to vote in our country.. and from my understanding whcih could be wrong but doesnt the majority of europe hate us?
and if i could have voted i would have voted bush.

not to piss off the europeans.

because kerry did nothing but bitch and complain about bush.

sounds a little bit liek europe at the moment doesnt it?

The reason most Europeans hate Bush and want to see him gone is because we mainly get US foreign policy in the News. Given the fact that the US is the biggest global player out there, and that the Shrub's been making us Americans look like assholes all around the world, it's real easy to be anti-American. The whole thing with hearing about Europeans criticizing Americans for "voting wrong" also ties in with the fact that we tell everyone that they're running their countries wrong. It's just not as common to see a Russian defending Putin as it is to see Americans defending Bush, so you may not have heard about it.

just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.

Offcorse not, Tony Blair is pro-american. Europeans complain about the American government on forums, Americans invade other countries because they don't like their governments. We all have our ways.
Just an opinion.

I dislike the Europeans, just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.



What the hell are you talking about? We not only tell other countries who to vote for, but we even sometimes invade them and place who we want in power!

Geeze.

You said that you don't complain about British people electing Tony Blair, so us Europeans should keep our nose out of American politics. But the difference is that our electing Blair, or the French electing Chirac, or any European election has little affect on America, but the American president has so much power globally, including in Europe, that it has a strong affect on our countries who wins the American presidency. Given the current situation I think it would be fairer if the whole world got to vote for the American president, but as this is completely unrealistic, we will just have to settle for badgering Americans into not voting in sh*t president's like Bush.

hey, i think its disgusting when other countries try and tell us who to vote for and want to vote in our country.. and from my understanding whcih could be wrong but doesnt the majority of europe hate us?
and if i could have voted i would have voted bush.

not to piss off the europeans.

because kerry did nothing but bitch and complain about bush.

sounds a little bit liek europe at the moment doesnt it?
Are you saying it's bad to point out the mistakes of other people? Bush did it too. (Kerry also said what he would have done to do it better than Bush, and that's not only "bitch and complain").

Look, most of Europe is ruled by Demcratic governments. They can hate Bush as much as they want to. I am British, I hate, Bush and Blair. But I acknowledge the fact that people have the right to vote for the candidate of their choosing.....

I dislike the Europeans, just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.

And you may say, oh yeah heres an American trying to piss off other countries, but no. You pushed me so close to the edge that I am simply expressing my opinions.
Heh, you sure spent a lot of money telling the Ukrainians how to vote. :p

And you really should not stereotype us Europeans. I could be classed as anti-American by some, and yet I supported Bush's re-election throughout. Never once did I suggest that Kerry would be better. Why? Because Bush makes the US look bad. :p Now, you tell me, in supporting Bush instead of Kerry, was I "telling Americans how to vote?" Because, had it been vice versa, that's the charge you would have been making. Do try to be consistent.

And you really should be more open-minded, it's not a black and white world, there are very complicated shades of opinion out there.

I could be classed as anti-American by some, and yet I supported Bush's re-election throughout. Because Bush makes the US look bad. .
Thats why I am glad Bush won as well. :D

IT'S BEEN ALMOST A MONTH NOW! WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING ELECTION?

I am not happy Bush won, I hate the man, he is an idiot and is driving the country and parts of the world down with him. However there is one reason I am happy he won, and only one. He is pissing off Europeans, thats it, they have been so annoying on this forum, that is why I dont like most Europeans, they are all like, oh thats not how you vote, thats not how you run a country, there are even people who come onto these forums and announce that they are anti-American just because of some of the moves our government makes, I have always liked Europe and Europeans in general, but now I only like Europe, I dislike the Europeans, just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.

And you may say, oh yeah heres an American trying to piss off other countries, but no. You pushed me so close to the edge that I am simply expressing my opinions.


Bush has the power to interfere with the rest of the world. Why are we angry at you Bush voters? Cause you are making the rest of the world a less beautiful place everyday, with terrible environment policy and terrible foreign policy.
Btw, I would say that Bush pushed the rest of the world to the edge during 4 years. We decided to express our opinion which might have been constructive if anyone had listened to it. Your opinion is useless, the only result is to increase anti-americanism by proving you deserve it, while there are also smart americans...

Heh, you sure spent a lot of money telling the Ukrainians how to vote. :p


Are you russian? It looks like you are misinformed.

Are you russian? It looks like you are misinformed.
British, actually. The EU too, has devoted its political resources to backing one side over the other. Until recently because one side's victory would be better for business, than the other's. They did actually make no secret of that. But now it has suddenly discovered the virtues of democracy, and the beauty of freedom. Pathetic. The whole treatment of this election by all foreign players, has been a disgrace.

(answer to deleted message saying the poster was actually russian and asking me where I come from)

France. ---> finally he is not russian? Seems strange to me! :p




I did not know about the financial supporting - I'd like a link to the source for that. I trust what I see.
Edit: hey! I didn't read well. It's not financial support, but politic support. Like, "we prefer this one candidate". Is it forbidden to say this?
oO
__

Is it worse than hacking elections?
Oo
__

IT'S BEEN ALMOST A MONTH NOW! WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE BLEEPING ELECTION?

Some people talk about it because they don't like the results.

Some people talk about it because they like the results.

I talk about it because I don't care about the results.

Regardless of how many people are talking about it many of us Terrans will be affected by the results.

HAND

Kramers Inturn, it's people like you who inforce all my lack of hope in humanity.

Four more years of Bush, four more years of falling credibility. I actually never made a big deal out of the election, never participated much in the weeks of tedious debate we had. But yes, I do like the results. Let the good times roll.

thank god the president won---and to all our european "friends"--you are all the pinnacle of fairweather friends---you are all so happy to be our allies when you need us to save you; at all other time you you care only about yourselves

Heh, you sure spent a lot of money telling the Ukrainians how to vote. :p


I love how the Bush administration is shaming the Ukraine over their election. Colin Powell has been talking about how bad the voter fraud is over there because the exit polls don't gibe with the results. Let's see...inconsistent exit polls...voter fraud...incumbent stays in power...sound like any other country, Colin?

I am not happy Bush won, I hate the man, he is an idiot and is driving the country and parts of the world down with him. However there is one reason I am happy he won, and only one. He is pissing off Europeans, thats it, they have been so annoying on this forum, that is why I dont like most Europeans, they are all like, oh thats not how you vote, thats not how you run a country, there are even people who come onto these forums and announce that they are anti-American just because of some of the moves our government makes, I have always liked Europe and Europeans in general, but now I only like Europe, I dislike the Europeans, just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.

And you may say, oh yeah heres an American trying to piss off other countries, but no. You pushed me so close to the edge that I am simply expressing my opinions.

Maybe it's because of the way our language gets murdered - most Europeans can write in real sentences. And go ahead, tell the British not to vote for Blair! I very much doubt you'll push anyone "close to the edge", in fact most people would be delighted (his majority was, and remains, a mystery to most. There are a great deal of guilty voters out there). You have to admire the verbal dexterity of someone whos argument is based on telling his opponent to "just shut up". I think it is a great positive indictment of the internet that, internationally, people can go and comment on a country that votes in an action movie actor to head one of the biggest economies in the world. If you don't want to get involved, go and stick your head in the sand elsewhere. :) Long live freedom of speech: may it always be so.

IT'S BEEN ALMOST A MONTH NOW! WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING ELECTION?
Because we have to live with the results of it for the next four years. And because, with the fraud allegations, it just might not be over.

I am not happy Bush won, I hate the man, he is an idiot and is driving the country and parts of the world down with him. However there is one reason I am happy he won, and only one. He is pissing off Europeans, thats it, they have been so annoying on this forum, that is why I dont like most Europeans, they are all like, oh thats not how you vote, thats not how you run a country, there are even people who come onto these forums and announce that they are anti-American just because of some of the moves our government makes, I have always liked Europe and Europeans in general, but now I only like Europe, I dislike the Europeans, just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.

And you may say, oh yeah heres an American trying to piss off other countries, but no. You pushed me so close to the edge that I am simply expressing my opinions.

It's really no worse than certain americans (CERTAIN americans, just got to make that clear) who go on about europeans being socialists.

Thats why I am glad Bush won as well. :D

Ditto!

It's really no worse than certain americans (CERTAIN americans, just got to make that clear) who go on about europeans being socialists.
I always found that funny. The EU free trade area is as brutal an economic institution as anything the Americans could hope to come up with, and yet being an EU citizen makes one a communist. Yeah, right...

I'm a liberal who lives in Virginia. I supported John Kerry, I was sad when he lost.

But I am glad that Bush won for one reason, now he will get the blame he deserves for Iraq and the Economy. If Kerry won, people would blame him, but with Bush again, he will get the blame.

thank god the president won---and to all our european "friends"--you are all the pinnacle of fairweather friends---you are all so happy to be our allies when you need us to save you; at all other time you you care only about yourselves

I hate to burst your bubble, but this is fairweather. How many direct terrorist attacks has America had since September 11th? Europe supported America fully until the ill advised war in Iraq. If you were being invaded, Europe would most likely support you (unless it was us doing it).
Anyway, we still are your allies. Some europeans just wanted to warn you about voting for a president who has more or less stated that he is certain that God is on his side, that's all.

I'm a liberal who lives in Virginia. I supported John Kerry, I was sad when he lost.

But I am glad that Bush won for one reason, now he will get the blame he deserves for Iraq and the Economy. If Kerry won, people would blame him, but with Bush again, he will get the blame.
Indeed! I'm very glad that Kerry won't get credit for Bush's economic expansion which has been going on recently.

Well, i'm canadian, and i find this all too funny, who the fuck cares whos voted in? if you don't like it in europe, then kill yourself, don't come whinning to us, or make a seperate forum for yourselves and whine to eachother, atleast then people would actually give a shit what you say.

Now bush, yes hes an idiot, but look at europe, and the middle east, they had thier bad leaders and no one said a thing, hitler? stalin? sudam? like seriously, i agree with the creator of this topic, just shut up, EVERYONE! stop whinning about this stupid crap, its not like your opinions are going to change americas mind, i don't think there gonna go "well seems the worlds mad at us like always... maybe if we changed our president, the world will like us" we don't think like that! north america is not europes decision, and just because your countries made some bad decisions and had the states walk all over you is no reason for us to have to hear about it, don't like your country or the states? move to canada.

Until then, shut up, EVERYONE! i've been to a million forums like this and its all the same thing or the exact opposite. god, i thought everyone settled down about this election?

Doom Wolf :sniper:

Bush is an idiot and a redneck at the root of it: But that's still better than Kerry would have been. Of COURSE he's enraging the Europeans...he doesn't really care and frankly, if by 'Europeans' you mean the 'French', neither do I. Cowards have never been high on my list of people to keep happy.

The whole reason European countries are highly critical is because they've seen and fought world wars over what's going down in the US right now and for some retarded reason this fact has not been recognized by approximately 51% of the USA.

They recognize what going on because some of them paid attention to history class or were around when the empires or fascist governments were in full swing. They simply have more experience in the area you are dabbling in. Ignore the advice of the experts at your peril. I wouldn't ignore them if I were rewiring a house and I certainly wouldn't do it if I were running a country.

Hubris is a nasty trait to have. Your pride will be the end of you.

The whole reason European countries are highly critical is because they've seen and fought world wars over what's going down in the US right now and for some retarded reason this fact has not been recognized by approximately 51% of the USA.

They recognize what going on because some of them paid attention to history class or were around when the empires or fascist governments were in full swing. They simply have more experience in the area you are dabbling in. Ignore the advice of the experts at your peril. I wouldn't ignore them if I were rewiring a house and I certainly wouldn't do it if I were running a country.

Hubris is a nasty trait to have. Your pride will be the end of you.
Most of the younger generation, especially in Europe, have no more experience with fascism than does the United States. Oddly enough, the older generations and people in Eastern Europe are much more likely to be Pro-American than those in Western Europe. :rolleyes:

Until then, shut up, EVERYONE! i've been to a million forums like this and its all the same thing or the exact opposite. god, i thought everyone settled down about this election?

Doom Wolf

If it really winds you up then stop going to them!

Bush is an idiot and a redneck at the root of it: But that's still better than Kerry would have been. Of COURSE he's enraging the Europeans...he doesn't really care and frankly, if by 'Europeans' you mean the 'French', neither do I. Cowards have never been high on my list of people to keep happy.

Hateful, hateful, hateful...

Staying out of the Iraq war wasn't cowardice, it was good sense. All of the european countries people are so mad at right now are in Afghanistan helping you out there. Ya know, the country harbouring the terrorists that attacked the USA on 9/11.

I always found that funny. The EU free trade area is as brutal an economic institution as anything the Americans could hope to come up with, and yet being an EU citizen makes one a communist. Yeah, right...
Yes, hilariouse how Anti Americans usualy get called communists, liberals, liberal atheists. And the list goes on. Regardless of their nationality.
The capitalist American pigs just don't know what they are talking about comrade TG.

Well, i'm canadian, and i find this all too funny, who the fuck cares whos voted in? if you don't like it in europe, then kill yourself, don't come whinning to us, or make a seperate forum for yourselves and whine to eachother, atleast then people would actually give a shit what you say.

Now bush, yes hes an idiot, but look at europe, and the middle east, they had thier bad leaders and no one said a thing, hitler? stalin? sudam? like seriously, i agree with the creator of this topic, just shut up, EVERYONE! stop whinning about this stupid crap, its not like your opinions are going to change americas mind, i don't think there gonna go "well seems the worlds mad at us like always... maybe if we changed our president, the world will like us" we don't think like that!


who is sudam? Maybe you mean saddam? Well, saddam was a dictator.Stalin wasn't exactly democratically elected either. Hitler was elected, and I guess it would have been a good thing to support the democrats against him.
And we were not saying "we don't like bush, don't vote him". We were saying "Bush policy in Iraq is not a good one for reasons x and y ...". That is called argumentation, I'm sorry you can't understand that. Now, I suggest you follow your own advice and shut up if you cannot argue like intelligent people.

thank god the president won---and to all our european "friends"--you are all the pinnacle of fairweather friends---you are all so happy to be our allies when you need us to save you; at all other time you you care only about yourselves

OooooooooooYEAH! We're World bay-sitters. Whaddaya think this thing with Iraq's any different? We'llleave when they decide to behave like the rest of the planet.

We didn't see the rest of you putting a stop to Hitler back when you still COULD have...but BUSH didn't want another one. THUS we good after the baddies.


And the Europeans can sleep safe in their beds at night. (suckung their thumbs, most likely)

The whole reason European countries are highly critical is because they've seen and fought world wars over what's going down in the US right now and for some retarded reason this fact has not been recognized by approximately 51% of the USA.

They recognize what going on because some of them paid attention to history class or were around when the empires or fascist governments were in full swing. They simply have more experience in the area you are dabbling in. Ignore the advice of the experts at your peril. I wouldn't ignore them if I were rewiring a house and I certainly wouldn't do it if I were running a country.

Hubris is a nasty trait to have. Your pride will be the end of you.
In fact, they have the experience of Vietnam. Oh, sorry, except Bush :D

who is sudam?
Maybe he meant Sudan. :p

Most of the younger generation, especially in Europe, have no more experience with fascism than does the United States. Oddly enough, the older generations and people in Eastern Europe are much more likely to be Pro-American than those in Western Europe. :rolleyes:

But it is amazingly fast how the younger set can educate themselves regarding fascism when the time comes. I can't speak for the older set however. I wonder how many polls, quotes, etc. on this subject exist from europeans on their opinions and reasonings for what is going on in the USA from a diverse age group.

In fact, they have the experience of Vietnam. Oh, sorry, except Bush :D
What? Bush heroicly defended Texan airspace against the VC bombers and paratroopers. :p

Hey! I'm European and I find that offensive! Not all of us are like "tally ho, pip pip, cor' blimey we're in a bit of a sticky wiggit!" I don't give a f*** who won, but I don't like it when you diss us Europeans, just cuz you saved our butts once or twice so you think we compleatly disagree with everything you do.
WELL I DON'T! I think America is great, and I have several friends who are American, and given the choice, I would rather live in America. But we're not all against you. Only when you say stuff like that, is when we get pissed.
How would you like it if I dissed Americans? I wouldn't, because as I said, I like America. :( :( :(

Hateful, hateful, hateful...

Staying out of the Iraq war wasn't cowardice, it was good sense. All of the european countries people are so mad at right now are in Afghanistan helping you out there. Ya know, the country harbouring the terrorists that attacked the USA on 9/11.

And which incidentally also killed Fortune 500 members from every major company on the planet, thus giving them LOTS of reasons to want to support or efforts there. Yeah, I remember.


But that still doesn't change my opinion of cowards.

The US is taking care of what the U.N. should be doing in Iraq. But half the U.N. was too busy taking kickbacks from Sadaam, so they decided to help the starving Iraqis by passing resolutions saying "naughty boy". Damn, those really taught Sadaam a lesson didn't they? As for the person saying that Americans need to pay attention in history class, maybe Europe should remember that letting Hitler do whatever he felt like to avoid war didn't work out too well for them

And which incidentally also killed Fortune 500 members from every major company on the planet, thus giving them LOTS of reasons to want to support or efforts there. Yeah, I remember.


But that still doesn't change my opinion of cowards.

If you're not a coward, I suggest you come here to me and we'll fight. It would be stupid of you since you would lose, have difficulties to go back since it'll be economically a disaster (I'll take your money while beating the crap out of you). You wouldn't achieve anything, except you"ll look stupid.

See the analogy?

Most of the younger generation, especially in Europe, have no more experience with fascism than does the United States. Oddly enough, the older generations and people in Eastern Europe are much more likely to be Pro-American than those in Western Europe. :rolleyes:

Nah. We take a long look at history, identify the point in time where someone like stalin or hitler could have been remoeved and thus avoid disaster on a global scale...then do so.

It's simply doing what has to be done.

The US is taking care of what the U.N. should be doing in Iraq. But half the U.N. was too busy taking kickbacks from Sadaam, so they decided to help the starving Iraqis by passing resolutions saying "naughty boy". Damn, those really taught Sadaam a lesson didn't they? As for the person saying that Americans need to pay attention in history class, maybe Europe should remember that letting Hitler do whatever he felt like to avoid war didn't work out too well for them

Looks like we'll have to stop letting Bush do whatever war he wants to do ;)
If anyone represents a thread equal to Hitler's, it's not Saddam with his absence of WMDs, but Bush.

It's simply doing what has to be done.

noone would critic you if you had the capacity to do it. It is clear you do not have it.

If anyone represents a thread equal to Hitler's, it's not Saddam with his absence of WMDs, but Bush.
*Starting to agree*

If you're not a coward, I suggest you come here to me and we'll fight. It would be stupid of you since you would lose, have difficulties to go back since it'll be economically a disaster (I'll take your money while beating the crap out of you). You wouldn't achieve anything, except you"ll look stupid.

See the analogy?


Boy, either you stand up and face the needs of your world and generation with a willing heart or you are a coward.

Tony Blair is pro-american

read: arse-licker

I found a nice site (although I can't account for its accuracy and the usual things like that) that lists some polls on international opinion of the US, Iraq and Bush.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=206

Western nations (inc. Europe) think Iraq is going to be better off without Saddam but those in middle eastern Muslim countries fear the worse. IMHO the opinions of the middle eastern countries are the most important since terrorists come from there. The stability of the region really depends on how they see things.

Looks like we'll have to stop letting Bush do whatever war he wants to do ;)
If anyone represents a thread equal to Hitler's, it's not Saddam with his absence of WMDs, but Bush.



noone would critic you if you had the capacity to do it. It is clear you do not have it.

Actually, I think we do. That's why Europeans are bitching...you're terrified we'd target you along with the terrorists.

read: arse-licker
And spanking boy.

read: arse-licker

Read, knows who habitually hauls British ass out of trouble whenever they scream for help....and is properly grateful, you ingrate.

That's why Europeans are bitching...you're terrified we'd target you along with the terrorists.

I'd like to see you try. And win. That would be funny. Why don't you write to Bush and suggest that. I'm sure he'd take you seriously.... :sniper:

Boy, either you stand up and face the needs of your world and generation with a willing heart or you are a coward.

That's a pretty sentiment, really. It would look good on a recruitment poster.

However, you can't win wars with flawed tactics, an underestimation of the power of the enemy, or being unable to maintian control of the area post-invasion.

There is a very thin line between 'bravery' and 'foolishness'.

I'd like to see you try. And win. That would be funny. Why don't you write to Bush and suggest that. I'm sure he'd take you seriously.... :sniper:

:ignoring you:

I think bout all the SAC units, area 51...and I KNOW how huge our military is. Yeah, I think we could. I don't think we would, but the capability IS there. And I think Europe's leaders knows it to. I think that's way they're so scared. At the moment, we're the ONLY super-power in the world. That has GOT to have a lot of people terrified.

The US is taking care of what the U.N. should be doing in Iraq. But half the U.N. was too busy taking kickbacks from Sadaam, so they decided to help the starving Iraqis by passing resolutions saying "naughty boy". Damn, those really taught Sadaam a lesson didn't they? As for the person saying that Americans need to pay attention in history class, maybe Europe should remember that letting Hitler do whatever he felt like to avoid war didn't work out too well for them

What were the Americans doing then? They didn't give two shits until Pearl Harbour got bombed. That would have been like Britain not bothering to get involved until Dover got attacked.

brb

Read, knows who habitually hauls British ass out of trouble whenever they scream for help....and is properly grateful, you ingrate.

When was the last time America 'hauled our ass out of trouble'?
The Second World War...
Several years into the war...

I understand why Europeans hate us.I understand why the world hates us and how their elections effect only them and how our elections play a big role in the world but to hate europeans is wrong.There are people who would vote for Bush and I would say I would be one of them if I could have voted.Now there are my reasons I would have voted for them and in my eyes they are very good reasons and there are my reasons I would have not voted for him but the good outweighed the bad and Kerry was a little female dog about it.He did seem to wine and cry about his three purple hearts while bush seemed to whine about the terroist but the point here, sorry Europeans, inless your population becomes massive over night, the most you can do is protest and maybe that won't even matter.Mmost Americans voted for Bush because of mortality issues.Issues of church and state since most Americans are God believing people or they're gayaphobic.Sorry!Not trying to sound snotty but the truth hurts.Is this the time where EVERYBODY attacks me?lol...

Hehe. Yeah.

And they tell us the Marshall plan actually helped rebuild our country.

Do you know how much 5 billion dollars was in terms of Britain's economy back then? Nuttin. Peanuts. :D

Hehe. And of course, I'm not all that happy with Bush being in office. Oh well.

And there's a reason that we Europeans say 'that's not how to run a country'.

Sweden.

(EDIT: and here's agreeing with your Religious Country argument. We Brits would've loved Kerry - but that's because a huge number of us are agnostic. Religious people preferred Bush.)

I believe there are a lot of americans too who despise Bush. A LOT! I can't understand why the hell he was elected AGAIN! So don't come pointing any fingers at us europeans. I'm not a victim of propaganda but have you watched Fahrenheit 9/11? I know the document is pretty one-sided, but for fuck sakes: it's all true. America went to Iraq to "liberate" the iraqi people from Saddam's crushing grip. That's applaudable, but how do you explain the fact that America took over ALL oil companies in Iraq, leaving the iraqis with nothing. That's pretty shitty. And I'm not saying Bush is the only one to blame. He's just a stupid little man, who has bigger brains standing behind him. Bush and all the people behind this evil scheme should be put to sleep. They don't give a shit about people. They're in it for the money.

Read, knows who habitually hauls British ass out of trouble whenever they scream for help....and is properly grateful, you ingrate.

*sigh* I hate this 'argument'. It shows a complete lack of understanding of WW2. The allies could have won without the US's help. Germany's military power was finite and was being spread out quite a bit. Defeat was inevitable.

The US's involvement brought fresh troops and reduced the cost of victory certainly, but they were not essential for victory.

Many think the US wanted europe to take the beating so the US could take more economic power from them; so they stayed out of WW2 as long as they could until Pearl Harbor happened.

Anyway, there is too much to say about that. I pass the torch.

ok wots ur point? u want people not to be anti-american?

then don't:
a)be so hypercirtial
b)sterotype the whole of europe
c)dont talk such bollcks

for starts europe is the bloody CONTENANT!!!! the use in ONE country! there are so many different cultures and beliefs!

and ok would u realy vote bush? a man who has put ur country into so much debt? and man who gives money to the rich and takes it from the poor? just to piss off, "europeans".

and so wot if the majority of european people on this forum dont like bush, have seen the new eminem video or at least heard mosh? and hes one guy! there a plenty of americans who don;'t like him!

i don't hate americans, i've been their dozens of times i love the country! and the people!! but tthe people/person who represent ur country are stupid and make fools of u all!

thers one reason why it was good he got relected - coz its so damn easy to make fun of him!
:sniper: :headbang: :fluffle: :rolleyes:

This is not the point where everyone attacks you (well, it might be) but you've got to understand that Europeans do not hate Americans. Most of my friends who have been to America think it's quite a nice place. However, a lot of people are worried about the foreign policy of the Bush administration.

However, one of my personal pet peeves is that some Americans think that America invented everything, is better than everyone at everything and has to be the world's policeman. Once again, I must stress that I refer to SOME Americans and by no means a majority.

I understand why Europeans hate us.I understand why the world hates us and how their elections effect only them and how our elections play a big role in the world but to hate europeans is wrong.There are people who would vote for Bush and I would say I would be one of them if I could have voted.Now there are my reasons I would have voted for them and in my eyes they are very good reasons and there are my reasons I would have not voted for him but the good outweighed the bad and Kerry was a little female dog about it.He did seem to wine and cry about his three purple hearts while bush seemed to whine about the terroist but the point here, sorry Europeans, inless your population becomes massive over night, the most you can do is protest and maybe that won't even matter.Mmost Americans voted for Bush because of mortality issues.Issues of church and state since most Americans are God believing people or they're gayaphobic.Sorry!Not trying to sound snotty but the truth hurts.Is this the time where EVERYBODY attacks me?lol...


Not that this is going to stop us. :grin:

This is not the point where everyone attacks you (well, it might be) but you've got to understand that Europeans do not hate Americans. Most of my friends who have been to America think it's quite a nice place. However, a lot of people are worried about the foreign policy of the Bush administration.

However, one of my personal pet peeves is that some Americans think that America invented everything, is better than everyone at everything and has to be the world's policeman. Once again, I must stress that I refer to SOME Americans and by no means a majority.


But to us at home, it seems that every time some piddling, little, under-funded country gets into trouble, they start yelling for America to come an fix it for them...and we do. We're baby-sitters, not cops.

The US is taking care of what the U.N. should be doing in Iraq. But half the U.N. was too busy taking kickbacks from Sadaam, so they decided to help the starving Iraqis by passing resolutions saying "naughty boy". Damn, those really taught Saddam a lesson didn't they? As for the person saying that Americans need to pay attention in history class, maybe Europe should remember that letting Hitler do whatever he felt like to avoid war didn't work out too well for them

Okay. Resolutions were passed. He flaunted a bunch of them. So we invade. Well that worked out splendidly.

Did it ever occur that the situation in Iraq is delicate and that direct military action to oust Saddam would cause trouble? You do not fix broken DVD players with a sledgehammer. You do not fix any sensitive problems with brute force. Even Bush Sr. recognized that ousting Saddam would cause big trouble.

And you want to criticise the UN for corruption. All governments have some level of corruption. The only saving grace is how fast they go after it.

I offer this on Halliburton's dealings with Saddam when Cheney was running it (and its from newsmax on top of that).

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/6/24/80648.shtml

*sigh* I hate this 'argument'. It shows a complete lack of understanding of WW2. The allies could have won without the US's help. Germany's military power was finite and was being spread out quite a bit. Defeat

Wait a second. The allies too had finite military power. The allies too were spread out quite a bit. Wouldn't that make defeat inevitable for them without the US?

Maybe my understanding is less than yours, but I think it a bit too revisionist to look back and suggest that the UK and what was left of France and the USSR could alone have won WWII. And too, there's that matter of Japan. Would the allies have won in the Pacific had Japan not provoked the US involvement? Would they have even bothered, what with the home countries and all other imperial assets under attack?

Don't discount the US involvement.' Fresh troops?' It is very far from clear that without those Americans dying, Her Majesty would have seen the defeat of der Fuhrer.

Didn't think there could be such a thing as a gay neocon, seeing as they are homophobic.. :confused:

Well, given that the USSR eliminated roughly 30% of Hitler's panzers in the space of about three days (the frost helped, I suppose), yeah. I don't reckon it's too bad an assumption.

:p

IT'S BEEN ALMOST A MONTH NOW! WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING ELECTION?


uhh cause it impacts the next 4 years of our life.

No its because ppl have small dicks and would rather argue about this then go out and get viagra.

I mean really, all your going to do is turn this forum into a European vs American forum.

Oh well, I'm just posting once.

Your all flaming dumbasses for even participating in this thread....and perhaps I am too, oh well.

Oooh.

Fl00fy.

:D

But to us at home, it seems that every time some piddling, little, under-funded country gets into trouble, they start yelling for America to come an fix it for them...and we do. We're baby-sitters, not cops.

This is the kind of view that annoys me. Do you think that every time some small, war torn African country gets into a bit of trouble they send a telegram saying "Please Mr Preisdent, bail us out. We're too stupid to look after ourselves, we keep on killing each other."
Get a grip on reality. America gets involved, but often it is to protect economic resources.

You said that you don't complain about British people electing Tony Blair, so us Europeans should keep our nose out of American politics. But the difference is that our electing Blair, or the French electing Chirac, or any European election has little affect on America, but the American president has so much power globally, including in Europe, that it has a strong affect on our countries who wins the American presidency. Given the current situation I think it would be fairer if the whole world got to vote for the American president, but as this is completely unrealistic, we will just have to settle for badgering Americans into not voting in sh*t president's like Bush.
Have your country apply for statehood. THEN you have a say as to who gets elected. Until then, shut the hell up about OUR President and OUR country.

This is the kind of view that annoys me. Do you think that every time some small, war torn African country gets into a bit of trouble they send a telegram saying "Please Mr Preisdent, bail us out. We're too stupid to look after ourselves, we keep on killing each other."
Get a grip on reality. America gets involved, but often it is to protect economic resources.

Dam right. Iraq has oil. America=*wants* oil. So-

America= No oil
Iraq= Oil
Therefore- America= *war*
America=win
Win= Oil.

Actually-
This is bull! A countries' people are not responsible for what their leader does! It's the dammed leader who makes war, not the people! The people have nothing to do with it, so we should stop hating each other, and start hating the bad leaders.

Alaska=oil
Iraq=oil
want for oil=Iraq/Alaska
Environmentalists=no Alaska
want for oil=Iraq

This formula shows that if Bush was allowed to drill on the National Wildlife Refuge, we could have avoided the Iraq war for at least several months. Besides, I'm happy that the war was for oil. My family is enjoying a quite hefty reduction in gasoline prices.

Wait a second. The allies too had finite military power. The allies too were spread out quite a bit. Wouldn't that make defeat inevitable for them without the US?

Yup, they were finite as well but in war the most burden is always placed on the invading country.


Maybe my understanding is less than yours, but I think it a bit too revisionist to look back and suggest that the UK and what was left of France and the USSR could alone have won WWII.

Actually the USSR alone could have tipped the scales but they were long holdouts like the USA. In addition, just because a country is 'controlled' by the enemy doesn't mean the people are :)


And too, there's that matter of Japan. Would the allies have won in the Pacific had Japan not provoked the US involvement? Would they have even bothered, what with the home countries and all other imperial assets under attack?

Japan is a funny story that shares a lot of similarities with the Iraq situation. (Uncoopertive, repressive government ousted by foreign military who then take over the country's economy, a group of radicals try to boot them out but end up gaining power through the newly established western-style government)

http://www.jref.com/culture/meiji_revolution.shtml

In the end they gained an empire, just like the ones they emulated everything else from and went military crazy.


Don't discount the US involvement.' Fresh troops?' It is very far from clear that without those Americans dying, Her Majesty would have seen the defeat of der Fuhrer.

I don't discount troops. I discount government policy. I think the average american was in favor of the war back then prior to Pearl Harbor with a minority of influential people in resentment.

It would have been really nice if america joined in when it started, but it is nonsense to think that Americans were essential for victory when it was becoming apparent that the Germans lines were beginning to crack.

As for the Pacific, Japan was spending too much resources trying to stabilize Manchuria and would have crumbled eventually.

*folds arms* See.

This is the kind of view that annoys me. Do you think that every time some small, war torn African country gets into a bit of trouble they send a telegram saying "Please Mr Preisdent, bail us out. We're too stupid to look after ourselves, we keep on killing each other."
Get a grip on reality. America gets involved, but often it is to protect economic resources.

I'm thinking America should just isolate itself from the rest of the world. Any time our president takes a breath, the international community pounces on him and rips him to shreds. What I find amazing is that Europeans and Canadians talk more about America than their own country...you'd think their countries were perfect or something. Despite the multiple flaws that every European leader has, I notice conservative America and even liberal America keep their mouths closed about them. Do you know why? It's because we can't vote for them. Oh sure, European leadership affects America directly, and they've done plenty of things I don't like. But like most of my fellow Americans, I choose to deal with it. Unfortunately the only way Europeans can deal with ANYTHING is by incessantly complaining, and after a while, it grates on your nerves.

So I say let them do what they will. Obviously America is not up to European standards, so why should we trade with them? Why should we let them even move here? Let the middle easterners fight amongst each other; let the Europeans sort out their own wars and problems. They could've handled WWII all by themselves, right? And according to Canadians, their military is far superior to that of the U.S. As each day passes, an isolationist policy is becoming more and more inviting. I say fuck the world and go for it.

Any time our president takes a breath, the international community pounces on him and rips him to shreds.

He ain't dead yet? Damn.

The whole reason European countries are highly critical is because they've seen and fought world wars over what's going down in the US right now and for some retarded reason this fact has not been recognized by approximately 51% of the USA.

They recognize what going on because some of them paid attention to history class or were around when the empires or fascist governments were in full swing. They simply have more experience in the area you are dabbling in. Ignore the advice of the experts at your peril. I wouldn't ignore them if I were rewiring a house and I certainly wouldn't do it if I were running a country.

Hubris is a nasty trait to have. Your pride will be the end of you.
I'd be careful to consider the average European well above the average American in intelligence. There's still plenty of dumb Europeans out there that hate the US because it seems hip and cool, and not because they had a good education.

Actually, I think we do. That's why Europeans are bitching...you're terrified we'd target you along with the terrorists.


for what I see, you don't... Iraq is not a democracy and it doesn't seem to get any more stable with time. In fact, it is worse and worse. Add to this the rising of anti-americanism in the arab world, which create terrorism, and you are losing human lives and a huge quantity of money, for a negative result.

*Sigh* Yet again no world peace..maybe I should just go to hell now...

:ignoring you:

Yeah, I get that a lot. Just cause you can't think of a plausable reply...

I notice conservative America and even liberal America keep their mouths closed about them.
I notice Americans keep on whining and bitching about France and the Chirac administration. I didn't know they can vote in France.

Well, I am generally impressed, with the lively discussion, however, I think you miss the point.

All other countries in the world must look upon the US elections with tied hands.(We can't vote, but are DIRECTLY AFFECTED by the American Corporations and their Government) America has a barely functioning democracy, if not completely corrupt and undermined in favor of powerful corporate interests. (I mean, they still even allow lobbying with millions of dollars, virtually excluding everyone who doesn't have millions of dollars)

Combined with that, their television shows shows which is called "reality tv" which individuals are put in akward/completely embarrassing situations and the hosts of other "rich billionaires" are greeted as the new gods of money or some such. Their advertisement is slanted towards complete commercialism in complete denial. I still see dish soap commercials in a beautiful home with clean wonderful kids and smiles all around. No one lives like that besides maybe what?... 1/5th of the population?

So, they have no real democracy (They elect the sponsors of the President which will rob them of money for 4 years) They have a completely detached world view (arguably not even being able to tell you anything that is going on outside of America) and the countries internal and external track record is the worlds worst in term of violations of the Geneva Conventions and Declaration of Human Rights (Just today, I heard that the Geneva UN watchdogs said that almost every state has laws against the homeless, which is completely protected under the Charter of Human Rights... They don't seem to understand that they even HAVE the rights to welfare)

Now, I have been trying to help the American's and individually they are very nice people, but they don't understand how they are being manipulated or why.

Well, this is the Bush part, so hang on...

Prescot Bush, known Nazi collaborator and father of two presidents laundered money from Germany through Denmark to hide european riches plundered by the Nazis, he sets that money and realized that he had to get in good with the military of America, which would grow by leaps and bounds... And did.

He made all his money off warfare. His son, directly connected to the father of the individual who is claiming responsibility for 9/11 (?!?) and then HIS son launches the largest military compaign against other countries causing countless Geneva Convention violations and spreading propoganda including, notwithstanding bombing the Palistine Hotel, killing INDEPENDANT journalists. Those not imbedded within the US system. They were a threat to the Americans, and thankfully some of them lived to tell us what is really going on there.... Thankfully.

In 1996 the Republican Party started Fox news to propogandize the people enough so that their coup against Bill Clintons government would win. Amazingly even after spending 80 million dollars they could only find a bunch of "purchased testimony" Luckily it all jived together long enough, before someone simply cross examine the witnesses and realized this was all a sham... Kudos for the judicial process, the Bushes don't win in 97.

Sadly, I don't think that anything is going to stop a full fledged war between the intelligent and thoughful of America and the religious and frightened of America. This conflict will escalate likely and will encompass the globe, and once again it will be the responsibility of the democratic countries (Europe/Canada/Australia/Russia and likely most of the Muslim Nations, because they have a vested interest of never being subjugated by money grubbing, environment destroying American corporations anymore) (As an aside, does anyone realized that money is more important than voting now? When did that law get passed? Money is unbalancing anyways, we should fix that.)

Right now, this is where we stand, and it's likely inevitable. So, I don't think that anything is going to happen to change that until this "revolution of democracy"

We must fight the most powerful nation on earth, with the biggest war machine ever assembled, against a tyrant dictator who removes the rights of his people and drags thousands off to be tortured and terrorized without charge of crime, and even those from other countries (Aman Arar) are shipped off to be tortured at the behest of their officials. This is where we stand now. Soon all countries will be faced with that decision. Hopefully Winston Churchill's words and thought will go with us as we defend not just ourselves, but the honest people of America who have no choice in this. America was a great and proud nation, before they lost their grace and way.

With great leaders like FDR and Truman they paved the way for the UN, they made it matter, they created the whole idea of global community and helping each other. Well we now tread on their dreams. Americans used to be the saviours, now they are the terrorists. Amazingly enough, they don't even realize that these "terrorists" they hunt for, do not exist, and those "insurgents" that they kill are men and women protecting their homeland from a foriegn invaders... Remember who they were in France in say... '44? FREEDOM FIGHTERS. They had an occupying government rule by the most powerful nation (Germany) and we supported their resistance to it. Well, now...

History will continue, I am not sure whereit will go, but I am sure that rampant thoughtless capitalism will likely kill us all, so the revolution will likely pave the way for the next world government which will hopefully finally be able to balance the needs of the people with the needs of progress and advancement.

Peace,

Krackonis

What I find amazing is that Europeans and Canadians talk more about America than their own country...you'd think their countries were perfect or something.
Who told you European leaders are perfect? I hear bad things about Schöder every day.
Despite the multiple flaws that every European leader has, I notice conservative America and even liberal America keep their mouths closed about them. Do you know why? It's because we can't vote for them.
I actually think it's because they don't know or care about them, but I'd be glad to be proven wrong on this point (and let's not count listing Germany with Libya and Cuba as "pointing out flaws").

So I say let them do what they will. Obviously America is not up to European standards, so why should we trade with them? Why should we let them even move here? Let the middle easterners fight amongst each other; let the Europeans sort out their own wars and problems. They could've handled WWII all by themselves, right? And according to Canadians, their military is far superior to that of the U.S. As each day passes, an isolationist policy is becoming more and more inviting. I say fuck the world and go for it.
It took WW2 to prove that the US can't be isolationist. The US needs to be the world's police force, only we need to do it right.

*Sigh* Yet again no world peace..maybe I should just go to hell now...

At least you tried. At times I feel like giving up on my attempts to get my point across to people. Who knows? Maybe I'm frustrating people like Florida Oranges just as much by my failure to agree with what they are saying.

Change to current thread. No longer is anyone allow to bash on world leaders. Instead, let us celebrate world leaders that have helped the world go in a good direction...

(watches as thread dies)

Actually-
This is bull! A countries' people are not responsible for what their leader does! It's the dammed leader who makes war, not the people! The people have nothing to do with it, so we should stop hating each other, and start hating the bad leaders.
If 51% of the people vote for the leader that started the war, it's a pretty good reason to dislike them, though not to hate them. You can't just claim we have nothing to do with Bush.

Change to current thread. No longer is anyone allow to bash on world leaders. Instead, let us celebrate world leaders that have helped the world go in a good direction...

(watches as thread dies)

World leaders that helped the world go in a good direction? Errr...that African guy...I'll remember his name in a bit...
Who's that guy who was in prison for like 25 years?

I'd be careful to consider the average European well above the average American in intelligence. There's still plenty of dumb Europeans out there that hate the US because it seems hip and cool, and not because they had a good education.


good post. I must admit I know a lot of europeans who just say "US is shit" or "They went to iraq just to kill muslims and get oil", while if the US knew that Iraq would turn into such a mess, they would never have attacked it...

The government thought the army could do it, neglected the observations of Europe (and most of the rest of the world) who thought it could not due to nationalism of Iraqis and religious elements, and experience from Algeria of the most severe critic, france. They went there for oil,too, but wouldn't have attacked if it wasn't a dictature. It was more like 2 hits in the same move, than a war 100% for oil.
On the other hand, many americans are even more extremist than their government, and still think there are WMDs there (laughs) and that Saddam is Osama's best friends (laughs) (crys).

World leaders that helped the world go in a good direction? Errr...that African guy...I'll remember his name in a bit...
Who's that guy who was in prison for like 25 years?
Nelson Mandela? South Africa?

If 51% of the people vote for the leader that started the war, it's a pretty good reason to dislike them, though not to hate them. You can't just claim we have nothing to do with Bush.

Can so. It waz supposed to stop people doing this, but there's no BLOODY TOWEL SENSE ANYMORE!!!!

Who told you European leaders are perfect? I hear bad things about Schöder every day.

Why not make a thread about Schoder on NS than? Show me Europeans aren't just obnoxiously obsessive with the American government and have problems with their own government too.

I actually think it's because they don't know or care about them, but I'd be glad to be proven wrong on this point (and let's not count listing Germany with Libya and Cuba as "pointing out flaws").

Well, we can't argue based on assumptions. Though I don't know a whole lot about European leadership, the little I do know makes me dislike them. Still, I choose not to constantly bitch and whine about them because number 1, I don't live in Europe, and number 2, I can't do anything about it.


It took WW2 to prove that the US can't be isolationist. The US needs to be the world's police force, only we need to do it right.

But according to Europeans, American leadership can never get it right. And according to most Europeans, WWII could've been won without the help of the U.S.

He went to jail for a noble cause, but what has he done once he got out of jail? Arpartheid (sp) was dying anyway.

On a bright note, I love to watch the Questions to the Prime Minister in England. That's funny. All the people yelling and ripping on each other to their faces...the rest of the world should do the same.

Nelson Mandela? South Africa?

That's the guy! :)
Now, other world leaders that have helped the world go in a positive direction. Hmm...

At least you tried. At times I feel like giving up on my attempts to get my point across to people. Who knows? Maybe I'm frustrating people like Florida Oranges just as much by my failure to agree with what they are saying.

Thanks. Whats the point in trying to preach about world peace if no-one listens? *Falls into hell along with humanity*

They went there for oil,too, but wouldn't have attacked if it wasn't a dictature. It was more like 2 hits in the same move, than a war 100% for oil.


Umm... They don't have to attack you to subjugate you. If you are a democracy, you are compelled to allow US Corporations to BUY your resources and BUY your politicans and BUY your compliance.

Also, from the little information I can find on European politics on the internet, many European countries are looking at serious trouble in the next decade or so when millions retire and expect to get amazing benefits from the government. No politician seems to be leading their country in a great direction.

I'm thinking America should just isolate itself from the rest of the world.

It already is.


Any time our president takes a breath, the international community pounces on him and rips him to shreds.

This president, without a doubt. Canada, briatain and others were ruled by conservatives back in Reagan's days so that's why his many failings were not jumped upon as much.


What I find amazing is that Europeans and Canadians talk more about America than their own country...you'd think their countries were perfect or something. Despite the multiple flaws that every European leader has, I notice conservative America and even liberal America keep their mouths closed about them. Do you know why? It's because we can't vote for them.

Actually, that's because neither conservative nor liberal america know of any issues in foreign nations nor can they name any European leaders.

Foreigners are miffed because Bush is pushing the world closer to chaos and they can't get rid of him by voting.

Its this 'chaos' thing that people are worried about. Something few if any european leaders have been doing lately. And since terrorists have been killing europeans over the Iraq war they are kinda miffed about his policies.


Oh sure, European leadership affects America directly, and they've done plenty of things I don't like. But like most of my fellow Americans, I choose to deal with it. Unfortunately the only way Europeans can deal with ANYTHING is by incessantly complaining, and after a while, it grates on your nerves.

How the hell do you 'deal' with chaos?

Of course they complain. They can't vote the bastard out. That's why everyone complains about rain. They can't stop the rain but there it is.

This comment is really ignorant. This is likely the first time that a european ally of the US has spoken out against the US so strongly and you act like its the thing they do on a friday night, just to make them look bad.


So I say let them do what they will.

They live in democracies and do as they please without your permission. What were you planning to do? Invade them so they'd fall in line?


Obviously America is not up to European standards, so why should we trade with them?

And the remarks get dumber. If you stop trade with europe or any large foreign country/body then your economy will crash. Foreign nations are what's keeping America's fragile econmy afloat.


Why should we let them even move here? Let the middle easterners fight amongst each other; let the Europeans sort out their own wars and problems. They could've handled WWII all by themselves, right? And according to Canadians, their military is far superior to that of the U.S. As each day passes, an isolationist policy is becoming more and more inviting. I say fuck the world and go for it.

- because they let americans move there
- the middle-easterners would rather fight you
- europe has no wars to sort out except the one they are helping you fight in afghanistan
- yes they could have handles WWII by themselves
- America is isolationist. Its does fuck the world over. Its hubris will destroy it.

He went to jail for a noble cause, but what has he done once he got out of jail? Arpartheid (sp) was dying anyway.

On a bright note, I love to watch the Questions to the Prime Minister in England. That's funny. All the people yelling and ripping on each other to their faces...the rest of the world should do the same.

Well, Nelson Mandela (I can remember his name now!) never did anything bad, so we can probably chalk him up as better than most leaders. He didn't do anything bad did he?

Oh christ, Question Time. Don't talk to me about British politics, British tabloids and especially don't mention Michael Howard.

It took WW2 to prove that the US can't be isolationist. The US needs to be the world's police force, only we need to do it right.

I think the UN should be the world's police force. What I particularly cannot stand with the current american government, is its way to deal with the UN. They ask for their support, but if they do not support, they don't care. Same with international laws. The UN isn't working as good as it could; but instead of making it better, more reactive, the US prefer destroying it from the inside.

In the end of the cold war, the world was almost united. This was and is still a unique chance to get the world united; but we are losing it because Bush is trying to bring back the old "law of the strongest" that is leading to new blocks - the USA, the UE, China.

The US alone cannot be the world police because the rest of the world will never recognize an autority that is absolutely not democratic, that they cannot change at all. This is why the only solution is a reformed, better organisation of the united nations. The only problem with that is that the US must give back a part of their power and accept to follow the rules made by the UN... Egoism is still a powerful force to count with >< :headbang:

Why not make a thread about Schoder on NS than? Show me Europeans aren't just obnoxiously obsessive with the American government and have problems with their own government too.
What? Explain this to me. I don't get what you mean here.
Well, we can't argue based on assumptions. Though I don't know a whole lot about European leadership, the little I do know makes me dislike them. Still, I choose not to constantly bitch and whine about them because number 1, I don't live in Europe, and number 2, I can't do anything about it.
Can't help you there... As a dual-citizen I sort of have a unique right to bitch about both.
But according to Europeans, American leadership can never get it right. And according to most Europeans, WWII could've been won without the help of the U.S.
The US has been fucking things up for decades now. The problem isn't that they can't get things right, but that they aren't, haven't, and most likely won't. The Iraq war has some noble causes (get rid of Saddam). But the warnings that came from some European leaders were that it would cause a serious destabilization in the region (which it has). Abu Ghraib was proof that the US isn't doing things right, Guantanamo bay was too. Those are the things the world judges us by, not that we got rid of Saddam.

Thanks. Whats the point in trying to preach about world peace if no-one listens? *Falls into hell along with humanity*

Oh well. It's worth trying. I mean, I've don't think I've changed anyone's minds by chatting on this forum, but I think I've become better at debating.

But according to Europeans, American leadership can never get it right. And according to most Europeans, WWII could've been won without the help of the U.S.

Europeans never said that... Well, some (including me) believe it could have been won by Staline, and all in all, it would have been better than Hitler, but I still prefer Roosevelt... and even more having elected presidents, thanks to the US :)

I suggest you don't state things you have no clue about. Your imagination is not reality.

*Sings Green day*


*sings the snowman song*
Sometimes, the world is black.
And tears run from your eyes.
And maybe we'll all get really sick.
And maybe we'll all die.
So...

Let's build a snowman!
We can make him our best friend.
We can name him Tom or we can name him George!
We can make him tall, or we can make him not so tall.
Snowman!

He'll have a happy face, a happy smile, a happy point of view.
If you build me a snowman, then I'll build one for you.

So, let's build a snowman!
We can make him our best friend.
We can name him Bob or we can name him Beowulf!
We can make him tall, or we can make him not so tall.
Snowman!

Hey!
(Tapdance solo)

He'll have a happy face, a happy smile, a happy point of view.
If you build me a snowman, then I'll build one for you.
Snowman! Snowman! Snowman!

Oh well. It's worth trying. I mean, I've don't think I've changed anyone's minds by chatting on this forum, but I think I've become better at debating.

Go for it! I reckon we're all gunna get nuked anyway. Oh well. See y'all on Judgement Day! ;)

Change to current thread. No longer is anyone allow to bash on world leaders. Instead, let us celebrate world leaders that have helped the world go in a good direction...

Bill Clinton

It already is.

Har, har, you're a real comedian.

This president, without a doubt. Canada, briatain and others were ruled by conservatives back in Reagan's days so that's why his many failings were not jumped upon as much.

I'll take that as agreement.

Actually, that's because neither conservative nor liberal america know of any issues in foreign nations nor can they name any European leaders.

Whoa, whoa...for somebody who doesn't live in America, you sure seem to know about what goes on in our heads. Move here first, then maybe you can consider your opinion as fact. Until then, I'll have to brand this an "ignorant" comment.

Foreigners are miffed because Bush is pushing the world closer to chaos and they can't get rid of him by voting.

Foreigners have every right to be miffed. Funny how you never hear them complain about their own politics though. You fellas ain't perfect either, but you wouldn't be able to tell by the general European attitude.

Its this 'chaos' thing that people are worried about. Something few if any european leaders have been doing lately. And since terrorists have been killing europeans over the Iraq war they are kinda miffed about his policies.

Nice, blame terrorism on the U.S. It's all our fault. Next.

How the hell do you 'deal' with chaos?

Of course they complain. They can't vote the bastard out. That's why everyone complains about rain. They can't stop the rain but there it is.

But you don't see people constantly bitching and whining about the rain. You don't see rain in the European headlines, do you? You should handle Bush like you handle rain. Complain about it, but also recognize your opinion doesn't mean anything, and he's here in the U.S. for another four years.

This comment is really ignorant. This is likely the first time that a european ally of the US has spoken out against the US so strongly and you act like its the thing they do on a friday night, just to make them look bad.

Okay, go ahead. Belittle me, tell me how stupid I am. Ignore the fact that Canada is hosting "Anti-Bush" protests, or that their are protests against the U.S. of A. everyday.

They live in democracies and do as they please without your permission. What were you planning to do? Invade them so they'd fall in line?

Saw that one coming. I told you what I think we should do. Isolate ourselves completely, so we don't have to deal with your constant crying in our ear.

And the remarks get dumber.

That was nice of you. I was trying to be a bit nicer today by withholding any insults I might feel like spewing forth, and look what I get for my effort. Everybody's a shit talker across the ocean, or 300 miles away. Funny how people manage to keep their mouths shut when they're not behind a computer screen.

If you stop trade with europe or any large foreign country/body then your economy will crash. Foreign nations are what's keeping America's fragile econmy afloat.

But European nations would also feel the effects of such a move. Drastic effects. Of course, you don't need us, right?

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

I'm sorry, that's how I interpreted your whole rant. Next?

Please remember that America didn't invent radical Islam. Most Muslims are wonderful, peaceloving people, but they have their wacko people who want to kill all non-Muslims. Christians went through that period too (do a google search for "the crusades" for more info). Muslims are fighting with other religions in India, Phillipines, half of Africa...all places where the Americans aren't.

Europeans never said that... Well, some (including me) believe it could have been won by Staline, and all in all, it would have been better than Hitler, but I still prefer Roosevelt... and even more having elected presidents, thanks to the US :)

I suggest you don't state things you have no clue about. Your imagination is not reality.

You don't think that, but you're an individual. Apparently you haven't seen some of the other threads around these boards, where the Europeans have told us Americans that "We didn't need you in WWII, you didn't save us from anything" and "Your troops died for naught, we could've handled it". I suggest you look them up; they're highly insulting, and inspire a great deal of hatred towards Europeans in me.

The US alone cannot be the world police because the rest of the world will never recognize an autority that is absolutely not democratic, that they cannot change at all. This is why the only solution is a reformed, better organisation of the united nations. The only problem with that is that the US must give back a part of their power and accept to follow the rules made by the UN... Egoism is still a powerful force to count with >< :headbang:
The problem with the UN being the world's police force, is that it only goes so far as it's members. Also, the US can't be everywhere, so the two need to complement eachother. I personally don't think that a lot of nations would accept the US as a police force if it were totally democratic. The governments that usually need policing aren't democratic and would mind very much if they had a democratic policeman.

Florida Oranges, you accused Upitatanium of being ignorant then you said that you interpreted his entire argument as "bla bla bla bla". Doesn't that strike you as a little hypocritical? Did you actually try to see things from his viewpoint?

Foreigners have every right to be miffed. Funny how you never hear them complain about their own politics though. You fellas ain't perfect either, but you wouldn't be able to tell by the general European attitude.


Well, the fact is that you don't really care about the french corsican question or the problem of east germany. We talk about it, but between europeans that care about. You are welcome if you have something to say against it, just like we often say things against US politics. But it almost never happens. Not my fault!

Foreigners have every right to be miffed. Funny how you never hear them complain about their own politics though. You fellas ain't perfect either, but you wouldn't be able to tell by the general European attitude.

That is real funny, because I do hear about people complaining about their own politics every damn day.

You don't think that, but you're an individual. Apparently you haven't seen some of the other threads around these boards, where the Europeans have told us Americans that "We didn't need you in WWII, you didn't save us from anything" and "Your troops died for naught, we could've handled it". I suggest you look them up; they're highly insulting, and inspire a great deal of hatred towards Europeans in me.

ah... I excuse about those shitheads. What I want to say is that they do not represent a majority! There are americans that say the USA should never have gotten involved in WWII... Don't generalize!

Kramers Intern is what is wrong with this country. The reason why so many Europeans hate Americans is becuase of people like Kramers Intern. Whoever said person is, is a judgmental ignorant redneck moron. People like you give a bad name for America. you think your better than everyone and because of this, you think you can do whatever the hell you want. YOU CAN NOT! And when Europeans make fun of you it is because they see how stupid you are. Do us all a favor and next time you think about posting something as stupid as you did as to why your glad Bush won, Think about what you are saying, YOU ARE JUST LIKE BUSH!!

The problem with the UN being the world's police force, is that it only goes so far as it's members. Also, the US can't be everywhere, so the two need to complement eachother. I personally don't think that a lot of nations would accept the US as a police force if it were totally democratic. The governments that usually need policing aren't democratic and would mind very much if they had a democratic policeman.

What I mean by democratic is: controlled by all of the world. I see the US as a democracy, the problem is that the UN actually counts the opinion of the majority of the planet, which makes it much more legitimate. And everywhere in the world, people are constantly criticizing the legitimacy of the US to go to Iraq; the arabs are particularly angry about it. It would not have happened if all the UN went there!

Florida Oranges, you accused Upitatanium of being ignorant then you said that you interpreted his entire argument as "bla bla bla bla". Doesn't that strike you as a little hypocritical? Did you actually try to see things from his viewpoint?

Hey dude, I would've happily given him the time of day if he hadn't started insulting. If he wants to get into a bitchfest, no problem. I'll belittle him right back. As for Rasputin and Laerod, thanks for expressing your opinions in a decent manner, but I'm afraid our opinions clearly differ. No sense arguing if both sides are going to stick to their guns, you know what I mean? I find it commendable that you didn't resort to insults despite my confrontational attitude, and for that, I tahnk you again.

First of all it's Stalin, not Staline.. Second Hitler killed 15 million jews, Stalin killed 30 million of his own civilians, he also helped killing 80% of 20/25 years old in the second world war died. Uhm. Although America has only been around for like 200 years, please note that you also killed a few million peeps yourself in your distructive wars, and you have also helped millions of your own peeps (veterans) to become mentally ill.. please I don't hate the Usa i just h8 your arrogance, and you government. F*ck Bush hard..

First of all it's Stalin, not Staline.. Second Hitler killed 15 million jews, Stalin killed 30 million of his own civilians, he also helped killing 80% of 20/25 years old in the second world war died. Uhm. Although America has only been around for like 200 years, please note that you also killed a few million peeps yourself in your distructive wars, and you have also helped millions of your own peeps (veterans) to become mentally ill.. please I don't hate the Usa i just h8 your arrogance, and you government. F*ck Bush hard..

In case you haven't noticed, many of your fellow countrymen have become quite arrogant in assuming their countries are so much better than America. Perhaps both of our nations are hypocritical?

You don't think that, but you're an individual. Apparently you haven't seen some of the other threads around these boards, where the Europeans have told us Americans that "We didn't need you in WWII, you didn't save us from anything" and "Your troops died for naught, we could've handled it". I suggest you look them up; they're highly insulting, and inspire a great deal of hatred towards Europeans in me.
I'd like to comment on this and say that it's not true for most Europeans, but since I come from Germany, I can't say that the reason I haven't ever heard this said is because it isn't a majority opinion. But I seriously doubt that it is.

you think your better than everyone and because of this, you think you can do whatever the hell you want. YOU CAN NOT! And when Europeans make fun of you it is because they see how stupid you are. Do us all a favor and next time you think about posting something as stupid as you did as to why your glad Bush won, Think about what you are saying, YOU ARE JUST LIKE BUSH!!

You are an American Civilian and I like you.. you see europeans don't hate all americans :P. We just h8 the Stupid ones

In case you haven't noticed, many of your fellow countrymen have become quite arrogant in assuming their countries are so much better than America. Perhaps both of our nations are hypocritical?

My nation is runned by a bunch of hypocrits.. and nope I don't think my nation is better than the USA, I only think that Such a Powerfull country as the USA should know better than to elect the biggest moron on this planet.. thanx

First of all it's Stalin, not Staline.. Second Hitler killed 15 million jews, Stalin killed 30 million of his own civilians, he also helped killing 80% of 20/25 years old in the second world war died. Uhm. Although America has only been around for like 200 years, please note that you also killed a few million peeps yourself in your distructive wars, and you have also helped millions of your own peeps (veterans) to become mentally ill.. please I don't hate the Usa i just h8 your arrogance, and you government. F*ck Bush hard..
we spell it Staline in french. Names change in different countries, the same way Osama bin Laden in american is Oussama Ben Laden in french ;). Well, I apologize for it.

I stronly disagree with your death count.
Stalin needed a very long time to do it (can't say it by memory, but must be decades) while Hitler needed something like 5 years to do it (more like 2 and a alf years for the genocide). He did not kill 15 million jews, but 6million plus the war caused the death of a total of around 40 (min) to 60 millions death (max).

What I mean by democratic is: controlled by all of the world. I see the US as a democracy, the problem is that the UN actually counts the opinion of the majority of the planet, which makes it much more legitimate. And everywhere in the world, people are constantly criticizing the legitimacy of the US to go to Iraq; the arabs are particularly angry about it. It would not have happened if all the UN went there!
Ai! I'm sorry to say that's not true (although I love the UN and I wish it were). The representatives of nations in the UN supposedly represent the will of their people, but they are sent there by their nations governments. So, you have the will of most Europeans and North Americans represented, but not people from Belarus, Myanmar, Pakistan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iran, formerly Iraq, China, etc. The people sent to the UN represent a fraction of their populations (the ruling class) and therefore the UN can't claim to be controlled by all the world (though perhaps more than the US). The problem with this is, that you have some votes against anything that might topple an illegitimate government, considerably weakening the UN.

we spell it Staline in french. Names change in different countries, the same way Osama bin Laden in american is Oussama Ben Laden in french ;). Well, I apologize for it.

I stronly disagree with your death count.
Stalin needed a very long time to do it (can't say it by memory, but must be decades) while Hitler needed something like 5 years to do it. He did not kill 15 million jews, but 6million plus the war caused the death of a total of around 40 (min) to 60 millions death (max).


Uhum.. indeed hitler killed more people, but not by putting his own people in camps and killem, It's horrible what he did to the jews and I hope hitler burns in hell ;). But Hitler's reign ended quickly, however Stalin's reign lasted longer and he did kill the most peeps, although there are no records of that. I will note to you that Stalin is responsible of the death of 10 million russion farmers in less than a year, because of starvasion. Stalin was just as much criminal as Hitler.

Hey dude, I would've happily given him the time of day if he hadn't started insulting. If he wants to get into a bitchfest, no problem. I'll belittle him right back. As for Rasputin and Laerod, thanks for expressing your opinions in a decent manner, but I'm afraid our opinions clearly differ. No sense arguing if both sides are going to stick to their guns, you know what I mean? I find it commendable that you didn't resort to insults despite my confrontational attitude, and for that, I tahnk you again.

You're welcome. I think it is good that people can agree to disagree.

Ai! I'm sorry to say that's not true (although I love the UN and I wish it were). The representatives of nations in the UN supposedly represent the will of their people, but they are sent there by their nations governments. So, you have the will of most Europeans and North Americans represented, but not people from Belarus, Myanmar, Pakistan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iran, formerly Iraq, China, etc. The people sent to the UN represent a fraction of their populations (the ruling class) and therefore the UN can't claim to be controlled by all the world (though perhaps more than the US). The problem with this is, that you have some votes against anything that might topple an illegitimate government, considerably weakening the UN.

well, since the governments are elected (in most cases)... countries could vote for their UN representant... But it would bring the left/right debate to the UN, which isn't a good thing. I think the current way is not bad at all... at least it's the best we can do so far ;)

Yeah pi, we all see shit differently, you know? And we're all stubborn as fuck too.

Uhum.. indeed hitler killed more people, but not by putting his own people in camps and killem, It's horrible what he did to the jews and I hope hitler burns in hell ;). But Hitler's reign ended quickly, however Stalin's reign lasted longer and he did kill the most peeps, although there are no records of that. I will note to you that Stalin is responsible of the death of 10 million russion farmers in less than a year, because of starvasion. Stalin was just as much criminal as Hitler.

What I meant is that I prefer Stalin to Hitler. But it is still somehow like chosing between plague and cholera ;).

What I meant is that I prefer Stalin to Hitler. But it is still somehow like chosing between plague and cholera ;).

Indeed :). You can see bush as in the process of mutating sars virus :P

Uhum.. indeed hitler killed more people, but not by putting his own people in camps and killem, It's horrible what he did to the jews and I hope hitler burns in hell ;). But Hitler's reign ended quickly, however Stalin's reign lasted longer and he did kill the most peeps, although there are no records of that. I will note to you that Stalin is responsible of the death of 10 million russion farmers in less than a year, because of starvasion. Stalin was just as much criminal as Hitler.
Um... not quite true. While it was "only" 6 million jews that died, they were the largest portion of the 15 million total. The second largest group was in fact Germans: Homosexuals, Christians, Dissidents, Criminals, People falsely accused of being one of the above. So Hitler did kill off his own people (they were actually some of the first ones to be killed, as the first concentration camp was built outside of Munich for political dissidents) it's just he managed to kill somewhat more than Stalin in less time. Stalin is ranked as second biggest criminal in World History, but Hitler is undoubtedly first.

well, since the governments are elected (in most cases)... countries could vote for their UN representant... But it would bring the left/right debate to the UN, which isn't a good thing. I think the current way is not bad at all... at least it's the best we can do so far ;)
I agree. It's just that it puts the UN in a weak position to combat injustice.

I love how the Bush administration is shaming the Ukraine over their election. Colin Powell has been talking about how bad the voter fraud is over there because the exit polls don't gibe with the results. Let's see...inconsistent exit polls...voter fraud...incumbent stays in power...sound like any other country, Colin?

Haha, thats what I have been saying all along, a lot of you seem to not understand what I am saying. Im not saying that our government is all good and nice and all that, Im just saying your preaching to the wrong quire. If you want to talk to Bush supporters and tell them how to vote, go to some pro-Bush website. This is mostly anti-Bush.

Um... not quite true. While it was "only" 6 million jews that died, they were the largest portion of the 15 million total. The second largest group was in fact Germans: Homosexuals, Christians, Dissidents, Criminals, People falsely accused of being one of the above. So Hitler did kill off his own people (they were actually some of the first ones to be killed, as the first concentration camp was built outside of Munich for political dissidents) it's just he managed to kill somewhat more than Stalin in less time. Stalin is ranked as second biggest criminal in World History, but Hitler is undoubtedly first.

Well what i ment is that Hitler killed his peeps yes, but because he thought they were lesser, and stalin however didn't care at all for those 10 million farmers. he just wanted to make some profit in his wheat export.

And i Also think that there shouldn't be a list of biggest criminals. because the biggest criminals never show themselfs.

I am not happy Bush won, I hate the man, he is an idiot and is driving the country and parts of the world down with him. However there is one reason I am happy he won, and only one. He is pissing off Europeans, thats it, they have been so annoying on this forum, that is why I dont like most Europeans, they are all like, oh thats not how you vote, thats not how you run a country, there are even people who come onto these forums and announce that they are anti-American just because of some of the moves our government makes, I have always liked Europe and Europeans in general, but now I only like Europe, I dislike the Europeans, just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.

And you may say, oh yeah heres an American trying to piss off other countries, but no. You pushed me so close to the edge that I am simply expressing my opinions.

*yawns*

That's right, everyone is out to bum you out and piss you off, sir...

*where's my beer?*

Im off.. cya guys

I'm glad that Bush won because he is definitely the lesser evil. There are some things about him that I'm not entirely pleased with, but Kerry and Edwards were just plain scary.

Kerry is more two-faced and fork-tongued than anyone who's ever run for President. Edwards is one of the people who is responsible for a lawsuit that forced American flu vaccine manufacturers out of business, hence the dependence on foreign-made vaccine and the resulting shortages.

Kerry's wife routinely gives money to extremely leftist organizations, and he harps all the time about Bush allowing companies taking jobs overseas. He seems to think that we've forgotten that all the job transfers began under Jimmy Carter, a Democratic president. All the while, his wife's companies have sent thousands and thousands of jobs overseas. Does anyone think that Kerry would have gotten Teresa to get the Heinz companies to come home? Nope, I think we'd have seen the sky falling before that would have happened.

thank god the president won---and to all our european "friends"--you are all the pinnacle of fairweather friends---you are all so happy to be our allies when you need us to save you; at all other time you you care only about yourselves


Read, knows who habitually hauls British ass out of trouble whenever they scream for help....and is properly grateful, you ingrate.


Fairweather. Tell that to the British forces currently in Iraq or the various countries' armies currently in Afghanistan.

While we're here, look up something called the UKUSA agreement. Look up Fylingdales, Menwith Hill, and a whole bunch of other military and intelligence centres into which the US has dibs.

Then by all means, come back and complain about "fairweather friends."

I'll enjoy laughing at you.

I'm glad that Bush won because he is definitely the lesser evil. There are some things about him that I'm not entirely pleased with, but Kerry and Edwards were just plain scary.

Kerry is more two-faced and fork-tongued than anyone who's ever run for President. Edwards is one of the people who is responsible for a lawsuit that forced American flu vaccine manufacturers out of business, hence the dependence on foreign-made vaccine and the resulting shortages.

Kerry's wife routinely gives money to extremely leftist organizations, and he harps all the time about Bush allowing companies taking jobs overseas. He seems to think that we've forgotten that all the job transfers began under Jimmy Carter, a Democratic president. All the while, his wife's companies have sent thousands and thousands of jobs overseas. Does anyone think that Kerry would have gotten Teresa to get the Heinz companies to come home? Nope, I think we'd have seen the sky falling before that would have happened.


Uhuhmm.. Bush has now the choise to elect 3 supreme judges for life. Thsts not good news, because they'll probable make sure that abortion and stuff will be banned again, plus they'll support the church more making your contry more hated by the muslims ect.. more chance of terrorist attacks, plus Terrorists don't like bush. So your not really making a good point.
cya all

Quote:
Originally posted by Laerod :
Are you saying it's bad to point out the mistakes of other people? Bush did it too. (Kerry also said what he would have done to do it better than Bush, and that's not only "bitch and complain").

So you're saying that when Kerry was asked the question "What is your plan?"
and his reply was "I have a plan, and it is a good plan." that he was explaining what he would do? Even if you were to go on his campaign website there is no place that Kerry's plan is laid out. Were we just supposed to assume that his plan was good even though he never told it to us :confused:

Yeah pi, we all see shit differently, you know? And we're all stubborn as fuck too.

Damn right, oranges! It's good to chat to someone who can have a conversation with someone who disagrees with them. If you can't do that, you end up with the "liberals/conservatives/americans/europeans/squirrels/whatever are all assholes" mentality.

Gotta go. I have to talk to my brother about a dirty contact lenses case...

I am not happy Bush won, I hate the man, he is an idiot and is driving the country and parts of the world down with him. However there is one reason I am happy he won, and only one. He is pissing off Europeans, thats it, they have been so annoying on this forum, that is why I dont like most Europeans, they are all like, oh thats not how you vote, thats not how you run a country, there are even people who come onto these forums and announce that they are anti-American just because of some of the moves our government makes, I have always liked Europe and Europeans in general, but now I only like Europe, I dislike the Europeans, just shut up, we dont tell the English to vote against Tony Blair, so I am glad Bush won just to anger the snotty Europeans.

And you may say, oh yeah heres an American trying to piss off other countries, but no. You pushed me so close to the edge that I am simply expressing my opinions.

a lot of you seem to not understand what I am saying. Im not saying that our government is all good and nice and all that, Im just saying your preaching to the wrong quire. If you want to talk to Bush supporters and tell them how to vote, go to some pro-Bush website. This is mostly anti-Bush.


This really made me laugh! No honestly it did!
Personally I hate Bush, and for a while, though I am ashamed of admitting it, I became Anti-American because of him. But a long time has passed since then, and I now am much more mature in the way I view the world. So all I really wanted to say was, good for you, for putting those Europeans in their place!!! I'm British and British/European snobbery really p*sses me off! It's your country, you vote for whoever the hell you want!
Also, just want to register my hate for Blair!!
And shall end by agreeing with someone who posted something (can't remember who but never mind!!), the elections were over ages ago, I think we need to draw a line under this whole issue and move on (feeling a sense that I've heard that sentence before somewhere!!)!!

Have your country apply for statehood. THEN you have a say as to who gets elected. Until then, shut the hell up about OUR President and OUR country.

Oh, fantastic, voluntary empires now is it?

Also, did you never hear of a little thing called Free Speech? (yeah, it's hypocritical but it's so damn easy)

Bush has the power to interfere with the rest of the world. Why are we angry at you Bush voters? Cause you are making the rest of the world a less beautiful place everyday, with terrible environment policy and terrible foreign policy.
Btw, I would say that Bush pushed the rest of the world to the edge during 4 years. We decided to express our opinion which might have been constructive if anyone had listened to it. Your opinion is useless, the only result is to increase anti-americanism by proving you deserve it, while there are also smart americans...

I think Rasputin landed on some very big points, America is definitely becoming a pollution menace in today's society. Living in Canada, I know what it's like since the pollutants float over here during the summer. I think one of the main reasons that Canadians and possibly Europeans don't like America is because of the open fraud taking place right in front of the world's eyes. This concerns us because America is still very much a dominant force in the world today. People of many nations feel as though America is a primary concern in preserving the continual health of themselves and the world (which last time I checked we all live in.) Specifically, the issue of global warming is important to most Canadians. The Bush administration, however does not believe in, the science and has taken to bringing back "clean" COAL POWER which everyone knows creates incredible amounts of pollution. Anyways, what did you get on the internet for if you didn't want to hear about European people's beliefs.
:confused:

Well I'm European and I'm concerned about the US election mainly because Bush really fucked up the whole world with all this 'war on terror' stuff. :(
I *hoped* that the democrat candidate would take a more moderate approach.

Firstly, I think all European countries should recall their troops NOW. I would never have sent them in the first place, because I'm convinced that in NO case war is an acceptable policy when dealing with international issues (this is written in my country's constitution, too).
Reality is that the Bush administration deceived a major percentage of americans into thinking the nation was "under attack" and that war was the *only* possibility. Typical political tricks. Maybe it's comprehensible, given the shock of 9/11 (I was quite shocked myself..), but here from an external point of view no one fell for it.

And secondly, the US govt blatantly *lied* to all allies on the matter of Iraq's WMD, effectively dragging European forces in an unjust, illegal and fucking useless war.
And so you still ask WHY we hate Bush?????

And yeah I know we are allies and all, but is it true or not that the only interests this war is REALLY serving are those of a few big american corporations? Or (to at least try to think of something a little nobler) maybe it's a matter of "energy security" for the US... (oil production is going to peak and then fall anyways in 10-20 years... then we'll be more or less all in the same shit, unless they come up in time with usable fusion plants and decent transportation without fossil fuels..).

BTW the only thing Europe is getting in return is more exposure to attacks and kidnappings. It's already too much that we helped razing Afghanistan. So dear US if you wanna conquer Iraq, Iran, Lybia, north korea, whatever, then please do it, but by yourselves! Thank you so much for the invitation, but in Europe we have already had our share of superpower madness and it's been more than enough.


This is not meant to offend anyone, I only wanted to express my viewpoint. And sorry for the bad English.

As entertaining as it would be to go to a Pro-Bush site and start spouting logic about how bad his re-election is going to make our lives, it wouldn't do anything. Actual Pro-Bush people (like the people who post and blog on bush's website) are very scary indeed. Same with any politcal party; all about the zealots. This forum is nice because in general, people are open minded and want to have a good argument. When you walk over to bush's site, I'm going to bet you'll meet a lot of narrow-minded people.

I would love to see a mass exodus of Anti-Bush people float over to those forums, but I'd bet the mods'll squelch you pretty fast.

EDIT: Argument.. heh, I meant debate. Slip of the keystroke...

hey, i think its disgusting when other countries try and tell us who to vote for and want to vote in our country.. and from my understanding whcih could be wrong but doesnt the majority of europe hate us?
and if i could have voted i would have voted bush.

not to piss off the europeans.

because kerry did nothing but bitch and complain about bush.

sounds a little bit liek europe at the moment doesnt it?
No, the majority of Europe hates your president, but not you American people.

Actually, it's been found that the Bush campaign had almost double the amount of negative advertising as the Kerry campaign. Were you deaf to the constant accusations of "flip-flop" coming from the Bush camp? It was virtually their motto.

Look, most of Europe is ruled by Democratic governments.
Are you seriously suggesting that the party of Bill Clinton and John Kerry is controlling most of the European governments?

you are all so happy to be our allies when you need us to save you; at all other time you you care only about yourselves
We helped you in Afghanistan.

We didn't help you in Iraq because it was so obviously a war for oil, and unneccesary for defence.

I am fucking sick of how Americans say Europe betrayed them. You betrayed us.

We didn't see the rest of you putting a stop to Hitler back when you still COULD have...but BUSH didn't want another one. THUS we good after the baddies.
You must be deluded if you think that Saddam had the destructive potential of Hitler. Even the countries bordering Iraq felt no threat from him since 1991.

Boy, either you stand up and face the needs of your world and generation with a willing heart or you are a coward.
If by "world and generation" you mean Bush+neocons+oil CEOs, then you're right!

I think bout all the SAC units, area 51...and I KNOW how huge our military is. Yeah, I think we could. I don't think we would, but the capability IS there. And I think Europe's leaders knows it to. I think that's way they're so scared. At the moment, we're the ONLY super-power in the world. That has GOT to have a lot of people terrified.
This is just a bunch of nationalistic ego masturbation.

Wait a second. The allies too had finite military power. The allies too were spread out quite a bit. Wouldn't that make defeat inevitable for them without the US?
I agree that the US was essential for the Allied victory. FDR, surely your greatest president.

the only way Europeans can deal with ANYTHING is by incessantly complaining, and after a while, it grates on your nerves.
So now we're inferior humans? Great!

Well, Nelson Mandela (I can remember his name now!) never did anything bad, so we can probably chalk him up as better than most leaders. He didn't do anything bad did he?
I would say Mandela's biggest failing was to squander South Africa's budget on the military instead of healthcare, when the lethal AIDS pandemic was unfolding. He could have done much more to decrease the gap between rich and poor and thus decrease crime (SA is just about the most dangerous country in the world).

But European nations would also feel the effects of such a move. Drastic effects. Of course, you don't need us, right?

He never claimed that Europe would not suffer a lack of trade with America. Let me guess: you would be happy for the American economy to crash if the European economy also crashed?

Enjoy your conserva-Nazi paradise.