NationStates Jolt Archive

This may be the single most liberal board I've even been a part of. The United Nations here is essentially a power-house of liberal ideas, and the board here is full of Bush bashers and a great deal of anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred.

I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.

I'm just wondering what you all think of this and why it may be. This is going to turn into a flame-fest, but hopefully, some intellegent ideas will be passed before it gets far too ugly.

It could be the type of people interested in this game or it could be that such views are a majority?
Could be a Europe thing but the numbers seem pretty even. Personally I go for a mixture of my first two suggestions.

Because America is raping mother earth and think they are admired for doing so.

I'm fiercely reactionary and anti-American (as a whole; the individuals can be fine, though quite often they prove the stereotype). Anti-Americanism has absolutely nothing at all to do with liberalism or conservatism; just because they are a conservative nation doesn't mean I agree with them.

The United States are the most evil nation hell ever vomited forth.

*innocent look*
i always thought it was because NS is made up mostly of smart people

Also being European doesn't automatically mean you hold a particular set of views. European countries have as much, and in some cases (though by no means all) more breadth of political opinion as the US.

because we have people like bush who hijacked the republican party and gave it a bad name
and iranians are more conservative based on the fact they are a theocracy (religion based) and so is the republican party thanks to bush and his group of fascists
Both sides are corrupt but it just so happens the republicans are really messing up right now
vote libretarian, it is the true path to freedom

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html
find out what you really are

I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.
There are a lot of non-Americans here, mostly from Europe and Canada.

There is also a lot of younger people here, with more extreme (and in this case) liberal views. I'm not talking younger as in college students, but middle and high school.

It's because it's the only place like it to excist. Free speech is essentially a thing of the past in the real world. This board is also a focal point for liberals who do not want to be mainstreamed by other liberal internet sites. Though sites like moveon.org do try to provide an outlet for liberals, they only do so within their set of goals and are not open to the broader goals of liberalism.

Because America is raping mother earth and think they are admired for doing so.
You were right. The flaming has already started.

You were right. The flaming has already started.
Most of us so far are trying to be constructive though so hopefully we can keep it that way.
*crosses fingers*

There's all sorts of people here, Americans, racists, etc. You've just been reading the wrong threads. :p

Well, all I have to say is that 60,000,000 of my fellow Americans voted to give Bush a second term. People in other countries don't really understand the fact that the majority of Americans are behind our president. I remember hearing about the total shock in Europe on election day. They figured we hated him as much as they did. Was this true?

you know, there are adult liberals in america.

49% of america did not want bush as our president. that is almost half of us.

Yes free speech is a hot commodity right now and personally, I enjoy being around other thinkers. Through osmosis the understanding becomes greater does it not?

Because America is raping mother earth and think they are admired for doing so.
The enviromental movement is all a sham, they simply repeat stuff they heard with out any real facts to support it.
we have 3 times as many trees than we did 100 years ago

You must have hung around some pretty weird message boards earlier, then. I keep being surprised exactly how conservative a large and vocal part of the board membership is.

This may be the single most liberal board I've even been a part of. The United Nations here is essentially a power-house of liberal ideas, and the board here is full of Bush bashers and a great deal of anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred.

I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.

I'm just wondering what you all think of this and why it may be. This is going to turn into a flame-fest, but hopefully, some intellegent ideas will be passed before it gets far too ugly.
Welcome! It's nice to see someone with a relatively open mind here!

One of the reasons there are so many far left people on this board is that many of them are either foreign nationals with their own ax to grind, or are American students who have been propagandized by their college professors into the sort of regimented "thinking" which characterizes what passes for "liberalism" in today's society.

One thing which happened during Vietnam is that a lot of the anti-war protesters fled to the halls of academia to escape the draft. Those "stealth" draft-dodgers are now tenured professors in a number of universities. This gives them unlimited license to foist their warpped ideas about what they think American "should" be off on young, impressionable students.

I hope this helps explain what seems to be a liberal bias on here. :)

Welcome! It's nice to see someone with a relatively open mind here!

One of the reasons there are so many far left people on this board is that many of them are either foreign nationals with their own ax to grind, or are American students who have been propagandized by their college professors into the sort of regimented "thinking" which characterizes what passes for "liberalism" in today's society.

One thing which happened during Vietnam is that a lot of the anti-war protesters fled to the halls of academia to escape the draft. Those "stealth" draft-dodgers are now tenured professors in a number of universities. This gives them unlimited license to foist their warpped ideas about what they think American "should" be off on young, impressionable students.

I hope this helps explain what seems to be a liberal bias on here. :)
The idiotic assumption there is that everyone on the board goes to an American liberal arts college. B...S... :rolleyes:

The idiotic assumption there is that everyone on the board goes to an American liberal arts college. B...S... :rolleyes:
Perhaps next time you should actually like ... read the post? Or is that simply asking too much? :rolleyes:

Heres an idea!
maybe it is because the government in charge right now happens to be right wing and is doing eveything it can to get involved with our civil rights that the government has no right to get into
www.lp.org
why are people even a republicn (right wing) or a democrat (left wing), they are both corrupt with problems.
vote libretarian if you have any sense

The enviromental movement is all a sham, they simply repeat stuff they heard with out any real facts to support it.
we have 3 times as many trees than we did 100 years ago
Yeah. The hole in the ozone layar is so much smaller then 100 years ago. We should just cutt down all of the rainforest and pump some more chemicals in the atmosphere just to show those treehugging hippies that it can't do no harm.

Perhaps next time you should actually like ... read the post? Or is that simply asking too much? :rolleyes:
I did. I felt my IQ drop. :p

The idiotic assumption there is that everyone on the board goes to an American liberal arts college. B...S... :rolleyes:
Or better yet.
One of the reasons there are so many far left people on this board is that many of them are either foreign nationals

I did. I felt my IQ drop. :p
Past zero as a limit? So now your IQ is a negative number? Or perhaps an irrational number, eh? LOL!

Perhaps next time you should actually like ... read the post? Or is that simply asking too much? :rolleyes:
Oi! Leave our Gracey alone! The only one allowed to mess with her is me, and only then when I continually forget she's a woman!

Or better yet.
Well, in YOUR case, I'll make an exception ... you're not "just" a foreign national, you're a total waste of liebensraum!

Welcome! It's nice to see someone with a relatively open mind here!

One of the reasons there are so many far left people on this board is that many of them are either foreign nationals with their own ax to grind, or are American students who have been propagandized by their college professors into the sort of regimented "thinking" which characterizes what passes for "liberalism" in today's society.

One thing which happened during Vietnam is that a lot of the anti-war protesters fled to the halls of academia to escape the draft. Those "stealth" draft-dodgers are now tenured professors in a number of universities. This gives them unlimited license to foist their warpped ideas about what they think American "should" be off on young, impressionable students.

I hope this helps explain what seems to be a liberal bias on here. :)

Or maybe they are part of the younger generations who are not in agreement with how their country is being run. Not everyone is thus impressioned by propaganda; maybe they are honestly in disagreement with how things are. But you said most so I'm not bashing you, I was just commenting on that some people may have their own free will in this. But I will agree with you that the youth of today is very impressionable and their minds almost like clay to be sculped by certain hands...

Oi! Leave our Gracey alone! The only one allowed to mess with her is me, and only then when I continually forget she's a woman!
Hehehe...cheers for that. Yeah, a whole bunch of NSers have incorrect assumptions made about their gender. Weird.

Yeah. The hole in the ozone layar is so much smaller then 100 years ago. We should just cutt down all of the rainforest and pump some more chemicals in the atmosphere just to show those treehugging hippies that it can't do no harm.
theres no solid proof for a hole in the ozone or a greenhouse effect
they actually say the hole is more of a thinning around the artic reigons (there is no solid prrof yet, after all how long have we been studying the ozone closely), which is probably part of the earths natural cycle, something like seasons you see, the earth moves into a ice age, and the out (geological evidence), and right now we are moving away from an ice age which explains rise in temprature

Well, all I have to say is that 60,000,000 of my fellow Americans voted to give Bush a second term. People in other countries don't really understand the fact that the majority of Americans are behind our president. I remember hearing about the total shock in Europe on election day. They figured we hated him as much as they did. Was this true?

Considering that nearly 50% of American voters were opposed to Bush's reelection and the fact that in nearly every state he won, he didn't win by more than 5% - I think it demonstrates that a very large percentage of Americans are opposed. It's not our fault that people vote more based on what church someone goes to than whether or not they are good for the country.

I think the fact that the Republicans are in control has helped to drive liberals to voice their objections in various ways, such as the forum. Its much easier to complain then it is to agree. Its harder for conservatives to post threads about what the government should do when its doing it. So I think that if Kerry had won then there would be many more conservatives talking.

It's because it's the only place like it to excist. Free speech is essentially a thing of the past in the real world. This board is also a focal point for liberals who do not want to be mainstreamed by other liberal internet sites. Though sites like moveon.org do try to provide an outlet for liberals, they only do so within their set of goals and are not open to the broader goals of liberalism.

It's because it's the only place like it to excist.I hardly think that's accurate. Most of the online messageboards I've been on seem to be primarily liberal, or at least anti-Bush. I take this as an encouraging sign of sanity in the world in general.

I think the reason why this board (and most boards) are so anti-Bush is that they are open to non-Americans, and since most people who are not brainwashed by the US media are aware of how much of a nutcase Bush is, this results on a more open way of thinking.

And I do wish people would stop saying things about "raping mother earth" and stuff. It doesn't persuade anybody, and it just convinces the conservatives that we liberals are aggressive and irrational. If you're going to say something, try and keep it rational and civil.

And to the pro-Bushists, I say: look at the world around you, and wake up.

Well, in YOUR case, I'll make an exception ... you're not "just" a foreign national, you're a total waste of liebensraum!
I'm a waste of lovespace?

and actually, I've been on a smaller board with almost everyone being liberal. the conservatism here is a surprise for me.

Well, all I have to say is that 60,000,000 of my fellow Americans voted to give Bush a second term. People in other countries don't really understand the fact that the majority of Americans are behind our president. I remember hearing about the total shock in Europe on election day. They figured we hated him as much as they did. Was this true?
Thats less than half. In 2000 there were 205,815,000 voting age US citizens (source (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html) ) So even on four year old figure that makes less than one third of the popular vote. So it is not true to say the majority is behind him.

American students who have been propagandized by their college professors into the sort of regimented "thinking" which characterizes what passes for "liberalism" in today's society.

I love hearing BS like this. The only prof I ever had in undergrad who professed any type of political ideology in class was....guess what.... Republican!

The idea that all US schools are oh so liberal is crap. Try going to one.

The depressing thing is that he actually won this election. At least last time most of the Americans who voted voted against Bush, but this time we have nothing to blame but the general impressionism of the US public.

Interesting assumptions.

I'm in a fairly conservative college. The community college I went to prior was -utterly- conservative: one history teacher tried to tell people to ignore Teddy Rosevelt's war-mongering, even. The local philosophy and chemistry teachers were creationists (especially the chem teacher -- I had to remind him several times to keep his faith out of his lessons... he thinks the universe was created by committee... seriously).

While I'm certainly not a liberal, Dubya's BS turned me from being a republican to being a moderate. The very first time I heard him speak. Despite my teachers constantly trying to trick me in to ignoring history and reality.

As such, you may want to reconsider that position a wee tad.

College students tend to veer left because General Education causes them to be more aware of the world around them. Take a Geography class. Take a Non-US history class. Or, heck, take a non-filtered US history class. Assuming you have any level of empathy, you'll find that things aren't quite so clear cut afterwards. If you lack empathy.. well... ew.

Hey, I freely admit Finns will tend to be more left-wing than US citizens. I am, in fact, quite proud of the fact that on the political spectrum of 70+% of Finns, Bush Jr will be in the extreme right, and just very, very right-wing from the PoV of the rest of Finns.

Social democracy is more established in most of Europe than it is in the US. I am certain this will make it seem like a forum with a major presence of Europeans looks like it expresses rather left-wing opinions from the PoV of many US citizens.

Another thing that might cause such a forum to skew "liberal" or "left-wing": Large presence of gamers -- young, urban, often better educated (more in the case of NationStates-players than Quake-players, for example...) populations. Plus there are more women on the board than on an average gaming board. All these demographics tend to vote for more left-wing candidates, for example.

I'm a waste of lovespace?
ROFL! I was trying to remember the German for "living room," a favorite justification for Hitler's invasions, but now that you mention it ... that would apply too! :D

ROFL! I was trying to remember the German for "living room," a favorite justification for Hitler's invasions, but now that you mention it ... that would apply too! :D
Living room? He needed a bigger room for all of his furniture?

I hardly think that's accurate. Most of the online messageboards I've been on seem to be primarily liberal, or at least anti-Bush. I take this as an encouraging sign of sanity in the world in general.

I think the reason why this board (and most boards) are so anti-Bush is that they are open to non-Americans, and since most people who are not brainwashed by the US media are aware of how much of a nutcase Bush is, this results on a more open way of thinking.

And I do wish people would stop saying things about "raping mother earth" and stuff. It doesn't persuade anybody, and it just convinces the conservatives that we liberals are aggressive and irrational. If you're going to say something, try and keep it rational and civil.

And to the pro-Bushists, I say: look at the world around you, and wake up.
When you ignore the rest of my post you are right, however when you read my entire post you seem to have missed the point.

Hey, I freely admit Finns will tend to be more left-wing than US citizens. I am, in fact, quite proud of the fact that on the political spectrum of 70+% of Finns, Bush Jr will be in the extreme right, and just very, very right-wing from the PoV of the rest of Finns.

Social democracy is more established in most of Europe than it is in the US. I am certain this will make it seem like a forum with a major presence of Europeans looks like it expresses rather left-wing opinions from the PoV of many US citizens.

Another thing that might cause such a forum to skew "liberal" or "left-wing": Large presence of gamers -- young, urban, often better educated (more in the case of NationStates-players than Quake-players, for example...) populations. Plus there are more women on the board than on an average gaming board. All these demographics tend to vote for more left-wing candidates, for example.
Good analysis! I think this is as close as we've got to the reason so far.

WOLF!!!! I'm totally not kidding this time!!! It's like, right over there!!! It's got big teeth and everything!!!!!! WOLFWOLFWOLFWOLFWOLFWOLF!!!!!!!!


Seriously, call a new tune now and then.

This may be the single most liberal board I've even been a part of. The United Nations here is essentially a power-house of liberal ideas, and the board here is full of Bush bashers and a great deal of anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred.

I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.

I'm just wondering what you all think of this and why it may be. This is going to turn into a flame-fest, but hopefully, some intellegent ideas will be passed before it gets far too ugly.

Simple, really. Conservatives are more likely to violate board policy than liberals.

There are only a handful of conservatives here with the wit and manners to survive long here. I salute them all. They're good people.

Most of the conservatives that frequent this and many other forums tend to break down to insulting, flaming or otherwise making good conservatives wish they'd get off the conservatives' side.

Not that liberals are above such things. But I think there are a lot less insulting liberals.

A liberal insult is: 'My god, how can you be so wrong?'(legal)
A conservative insult is: 'My god, how can you be so stupid?'(not).

There it is in a nutshell.

Also, I don't know if this is a side-effect or a symptom in and of itself, but conservatives tend to have a lousy sense of humor.

conservatives tend to have a lousy sense of humor.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Democrats -> Democraps ... HA HA HA. Gets me everytime.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Democrats -> Democraps ... HA HA HA. Gets me everytime.

Yes, but were you one of the people who were so horribly offended when someone posted a parody of a "gay gene" article that instead claimed there was a gene that leads to being Republican?

Past zero as a limit? So now your IQ is a negative number? Or perhaps an irrational number, eh? LOL!
Irrational number? That has nothing to do with being low...

Yes, but were you one of the people who were so horribly offended when someone posted a parody of a "gay gene" article that instead claimed there was a gene that leads to being Republican?

Ooh! I missed that!

Does the republican gene beat up the gay gene?

Yes, but were you one of the people who were so horribly offended when someone posted a parody of a "gay gene" article that instead claimed there was a gene that leads to being Republican?

I could ask you the same question, Dempublicents -- if that is your real name.

Most of the conservatives that frequent this and many other forums tend to break down to insulting, flaming or otherwise making good conservatives wish they'd get off the conservatives' side.

Not that liberals are above such things. But I think there are a lot less insulting liberals.

A liberal insult is: 'My god, how can you be so wrong?'(legal)
A conservative insult is: 'My god, how can you be so stupid?'(not).
Proud to be a 'good' conservative.

A lot fewer insulting liberals? Clearly, you don't recognize Bush-hatred as liberal.

Correction:
A poor insult is: 'My god, how can you be so wrong?'
A worse insult is: 'My god, how can you be so stupid?'.

Irrational number? That has nothing to do with being low...
Perhaps not, but it's a fairly good play on the word "irrational" don't you think? :D

Proud to be a 'good' conservative.

A lot fewer insulting liberals? Clearly, you don't recognize Bush-hatred as liberal.

Correction:
A poor insult is: 'My god, how can you be so wrong?'
A worse insult is: 'My god, how can you be so stupid?'.

On the contrary, Insulting Bush is perfectly legal because he doesn't post here. :p

You never see conservatives deeted for referring to Kerry as a withered husk of perversion and inconsistencies. Do you? Nope. Because he doesn't post here either.

Hmm. I don't get the Iran-Liberal or Iran-Bush connection. Iran is hardly liberal. I also don't get the "French" connection either - I had no clue that being left to the political spectrum qualified you as French. Meh - you need to develop your "humor." If you're going to insult a liberal or whatnot, might as well be witty, eh? But then again, a French joke is so fucking original, isn't it?

On the contrary, Insulting Bush is perfectly legal because he doesn't post here. :p

You never see conservatives deeted for referring to Kerry as a withered husk of perversion and inconsistencies. Do you? Nope. Because he doesn't post here either.

Actually...

This may be the single most liberal board I've even been a part of. The United Nations here is essentially a power-house of liberal ideas, and the board here is full of Bush bashers and a great deal of anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred.

I'm wondering why this is.

I think at least part of it is because the minority (losing) opposition party is always more bitter, and that bitterness prompts them to be more vocal. Think of how conservatives felt after Clinton got re-elected. We were pretty darn vocal in those days. Now we're a little more content -- dare I say complacent? -- and as a result, we don't feel the need to rail against a "common enemy."

It's far easier for people to come together to fight a common enemy than it is for them to join together promoting a common good. I think, had Kerry won, there would be far more anti-liberal postings than there are pro-conservative postings currently. We're seeing the inverse now. If that makes sense.

Welcome! It's nice to see someone with a relatively open mind here!

One of the reasons there are so many far left people on this board is that many of them are either foreign nationals with their own ax to grind, or are American students who have been propagandized by their college professors into the sort of regimented "thinking" which characterizes what passes for "liberalism" in today's society.

One thing which happened during Vietnam is that a lot of the anti-war protesters fled to the halls of academia to escape the draft. Those "stealth" draft-dodgers are now tenured professors in a number of universities. This gives them unlimited license to foist their warpped ideas about what they think American "should" be off on young, impressionable students.

I hope this helps explain what seems to be a liberal bias on here. :)

Etrusca, you are no longer allowed to bitch when a BushBasher comes on here and says that Bush was only elected because Republicans are ignorant and were only fooled by Bush.

While I avoid my classes as best I can, I do know how insulting it is to say that our ideas are formed by liberal teachers who have nothing better to do then mold our clay like minds.

I also think you are pointing way to much of this Vietnam aggression in the wrong direction, as not only did it take place before most NS posters were born, but it is the liberal posters who would risk arrests and jail time to bring you home, while the powerful that you so willfully protect on here were the ones who sent you to Vietnam on miscalculations in the first place.

Etrusca, you are no longer allowed to bitch when a BushBasher comes on here and says that Bush was only elected because Republicans are ignorant and were only fooled by Bush.

While I avoid my classes as best I can, I do know how insulting it is to say that our ideas are formed by liberal teachers who have nothing better to do then mold our clay like minds.

I also think you are pointing way to much of this Vietnam aggression in the wrong direction, as not only did it take place before most NS posters were born, but it is the liberal posters who would risk arrests and jail time to bring you home, while the powerful that you so willfully protect on here were the ones who sent you to Vietnam on miscalculations in the first place.
Point taken. I'll shut up. :)

I am on another message board where they have several thousand members, and only three of them are openly conservative. Apparently, guinea pigs draw a very liberal crowd.

Not to mention that on all my time on the internet, I have yet to meet a single person who was not an American that approved of Bush. That doesnt mean they dont exist, but out of... oh... I dont know... Another several thousand posts I've read over the past several years including on boards made up primarily of non-Americans, it seems like if Bush was really that great of a guy, more than Texans, hillbillies, and evangelical christians would support what he was doing. (Over exaggeration, but not by too much)

This board is very liberal, and it is a breath of fresh air.

"A democracy is just a mob where 51% of the population can destroy the rights of the other 49%." - Thomas Jefferson

Funny how liberals seem to think they're immune to propaganda while all conversatives are suspect to it. Here's a little exercise for you to try; watch something on TV, pretty much anything you normally watch, and count how many times the way an idea is portrayed makes in favor towards an idea (e.g. a sitcom with a healthy, beautiful woman that, either directly or indirectly, attributes it to her vegan diet and how it doesn't hurt nature) or in disfavor of another (e.g. a news report on the oh so evil CEOs of Company X, which MUST mean that capitalism is a system so flawed that it can't work. They couldn't possibly be airing that because they know that's the sort of story you liberals eat up). I'm certain that if you do this fairly, you'll be surprised at the results.

Another thing I've noticed: liberals are up in arms about equality and freedom of speech, but they'll be the first ones to believe they're superior to everyone because of their leftist views (as seen in several prior posts) and it has been my experience that if you believe in something they strongly don't agree with, they'll either tell you that you can't say that because it isn't right (e.g. Person A: I think that blacks in the U.S. have too many advantanges. Liberal B: You can't say that! They're an oppressed minority!) or indirectly tell you to shut up (When a liberal says "You're just ignorant" they really mean "Shut up").

Maybe you're a reasonable liberal. Don't tell me, I could care less. For everyone 1 of you there's at least 100 unreasonable ones.

Go ahead and call me a hypocrite if you will, but deep down you know I'm right.

Edit: If you think the American news is full of propaganda, European news is worse. I lived in Germany long enough to see how bad it was.

That's why Libertarianism (many aspects of it) is good. :D

Why do all the UN resolutions that are coming up lately deal with poop?

The "Rights of Minorities and Women" (1) was terribly worded and if the game actually enforced the wording, we would have no game any longer.

The rights of gays to marry thing (2) is yet another wrong-headed idea from the "left". Never before in history have we had such a thing, yet suddenly we are supposed to believe that we have been oppressing people who are homosexual by not allowing them to marry.

Now it is Embryonic Stem Cell research (3). Let's trot out the entire liberal agenda shall we? And how typical -- the vote is 4,458 to 937 already.

Why not some real and serious resolutions like a resolution to drive the UN to fight human tragedy like what occured in Rwanda or the Sudan?

1. Clearly all people should have ''rights''.... what those rights are exactly is being clarified on a daily basis. But the rights of mankind cannot logically be guaranteed by mankind alone. How can a broken system fix itself? The American Declaration of Independence recognized that rights are ultimately granted by God, and that standard is universal and unbreakable.

2. Shall we prevent gays from marrying? Hard one to answer. I would say religiously, we should oppose it. Socially, it seems to be generally disliked. Naturally, it is opposed to the standards of nature (homosexuality). Philosophically, homosexuals are humans, as are heterosexuals. Governmentally, I believe governments have a duty to do what is best for all citizens in a holistic approach. So I would probably err on the side of the status quo in this. Rome wasn't built in a day, after all.

3. And the embryonic stem cell research -- we collectively haven't yet decided ''when life begins'' although an embryo is clearly a living thing (non-living things don't make life). So are we killing a human, or saving a human via stem cell technology? What about adult stem cells, which show much of the same promise, without the ethical questions? Is it best to develop technology and knowledge without humanity being able to deal with it morally or ethically? What about the Atomic Bomb?

Point taken. I'll shut up. :)

Awww, dammit. Fire back at me. That was far too good to be true.

Oh well, I saw that BlindLiberals is back under the clever disguise of BlinderLiberals, I'll go argue with him.

you know, there are adult liberals in america.

49% of america did not want bush as our president. that is almost half of us.

That doesnt mean 49% of America is liberal(its just anti-bush). However what Democrats fail to see is that Americans actually put VALUES and MORALS as their #1 concern. You people have to understand that most Americans believe in GOD, most Americans oppose GAY marriage, and most Americans believe in restricting abortion so that it is only used when the excuse is legitimate(Democrats lost simply because they never bothered to express their concern for holding up these traditional values). The majority of Americans dont play this simulation and thats why you dont see people supporting conservative values. And in my opinion even though liberals are against intolerance in reality they are the most intolerant people that walk on this earth(this thread is a big example) they are a living physical hypocrisy(in their ideal society most political views that dont blindly support the liberal idealism would be violently suppressed) What the liberals need to do in order to win is simply to become a little more conservative(which will probably be their tactic in 2008)

P.S: Even though I stated this I am still against Bush(a true extreme right-wing libertarian would never support him) I just dont blindly curse the crap out of him like all you liberals, What I support is a complete removal of the current Republican party and the placement of a true Right-Wing party.

Thank you, Lagonia.
You are right.
The Americans back president bush.
Of course, the message is out that everyone hates bush in America.
It has been spread due to Liberals who can not stop complaining for more than 20 minutes.

They talk so much.
Lord.
My school is about half Bush and half Kerry (based on where I live).
But 90% of what I hear are against conservative viewpoints. I hear NOTHING against liberals.

It just goes to show that liberals (European socialists included, who whine about us yet have never set foot in the country) talk too much.

You know, if this board is so 'liberal', why did most of this topic consist of liberal bashing?

By the way, Tenzingnor, Right Wing America, you scare me.

Why not some real and serious resolutions like a resolution to drive the UN to fight human tragedy like what occured in Rwanda or the Sudan?


"UN proposals cannot address the rules or mechanics of the game, nor can they ask for new features. Proposals should also not address events, things, or people in the "Real World".

It's in the FAQ section of Nationstates. Tard'

Well, all I have to say is that 60,000,000 of my fellow Americans voted to give Bush a second term. People in other countries don't really understand the fact that the majority of Americans are behind our president. I remember hearing about the total shock in Europe on election day. They figured we hated him as much as they did. Was this true?

Bush did not get that many votes. He is just getting better at fixing the elections. lol (joke)

I am a serving member in the US military, and I am still a liberal as such I think I have a different point of view than most people here. As much as I hate to admit it Busch does have some good qualities, in fact I would have voted for him if he had ditched Rumsfeld, Chenney, and Aschcroft, that said I am very against his social policies the most important thing in America is the seperation of church and state. However all of you that are Bashing Busch at least he finally got rid of Saddam (even though I believe the timing was wrong) Saddam was still an evil dictator, and if the UN would get off its lazy behind and do what it is supposed to America would not have to act unilatterally, but as proven in the oil for food program the European governments (especially France) cannot be trusted to do what they are supposed to. Oh and I do not consider it a vote on morals, it was the fact that the majority of Americans do not want things to change they want society to stay the same they fear what they do not understand, however a lot of liberals are actually part of the problem not the solution. Librals spout the same things over and over, like social security, which I agree with but the way it is currently set up is flawed, and WHY THE HELL are most librals against nuclear power in the long run it is safer, more efficient, and enviornmentally friendly than most conventional sorts of power it would also go a long way towards solving the problem of our dependency on oil. Oh the one thing I originally agreed with Busch on was his opposition to the creation of a DCI and rushing the recomendations to the 9-11 commision. That said the way the intel community and Tennet were made whipping boys for 9-11 disgusts me.

Sorry if I offended anyone but these are my views takem or leavem your choice.

...and the board here is full of Bush bashers and a great deal of anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred.

I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.



I don't see what anti-americanism has to do with liberalism. Are you saying that Iranians are liberals?

This may be the single most liberal board I've even been a part of. The United Nations here is essentially a power-house of liberal ideas, and the board here is full of Bush bashers and a great deal of anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred.

I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.

I'm just wondering what you all think of this and why it may be. This is going to turn into a flame-fest, but hopefully, some intellegent ideas will be passed before it gets far too ugly.

You may need some help.

I don't see what anti-americanism has to do with liberalism. Are you saying that Iranians are liberals?

What do you call Muslim countries that want to Nuke the US?

What do you call Muslim countries that want to Nuke the US?

They are not liberals that's for sure.

Iran is a theocracy. Very limited rights. That's not liberal at all.

They are religious zealots.

What do you call Muslim countries that want to Nuke the US?

Conservative.

Think about it: They're afraid of change. They're very religious. They have powerful nationalistic tendencies. They favor powerful militaries.

They're right-wingers.

Thank you, Lagonia.
You are right.
The Americans back president bush.
Of course, the message is out that everyone hates bush in America.
It has been spread due to Liberals who can not stop complaining for more than 20 minutes.

They talk so much.
Lord.
My school is about half Bush and half Kerry (based on where I live).
But 90% of what I hear are against conservative viewpoints. I hear NOTHING against liberals.

It just goes to show that liberals (European socialists included, who whine about us yet have never set foot in the country) talk too much.

You are in the majority. Don't worry. Mostly, only Union-Jerks like Kerry, (including your teachers, who are all in the brainwashers union). The are also paid VERY-LOW. There is a reason for that. DO NOT BECOME A LIBERAL BRAIN-WASH 'TEACHER'. It is very easy to be MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL, and you do not have to suck up their lies.

Conservative.

Think about it: They're afraid of change. They're very religious. They have powerful nationalistic tendencies. They favor powerful militaries.

They're right-wingers.

To you and the jerk above. Move there, have fun.

To you and the jerk above. Move there, have fun.

Watch the jerks JUMP.

I dunno BL.

We should be paying our teachers more, considering they have in their power the ability to make their students not suck when they get out of school.

Just a thought.

Also, because they are teachers and deal with thinking every day, maybe they question things that affect them, maybe, say their government?

To you and the jerk above. Move there, have fun.

Are you nuts?!? I'm the first person they'd kill!

Do you know what the penalty in Iran is for streaking? They don't have one! That's how screwed up they are!

I dunno BL.

We should be paying our teachers more, considering they have in their power the ability to make their students not suck when they get out of school.

Just a thought.

Also, because they are teachers and deal with thinking every day, maybe they question things that affect them, maybe, say their government?

You can pay your favorite teachers ALL THAT YOU WANT. To me, they exemplify the FAILURE OF UNIONS.

Are you nuts?!? I'm the first person they'd kill!

Do you know what the penalty in Iran is for streaking? They don't have one! That's how screwed up they are!

Get underware, at least, and move your frozen whatever to Northern CaNURNia.

Question, BL.

Where and when did you go to school?

You can pay your favorite teachers ALL THAT YOU WANT. To me, they exemplify the FAILURE OF UNIONS.

Yes, BL, it must be annoying to be in a forum where education is valued.

And the free expression of opinion.

And where not everyone is a conservative.

Or even any American.

Or a Christian.

Pretty scary stuff huh?

Well, you can : complain about it (you're doing fine so far), but people have this annoying habit of disagreeing with you.

Or stick around and attempt to defend your positions in a series of logical and rational arguments. That's what a lot of us try to do.

Or you can go elsewhere.

Up to you.

To you and the jerk above. Move there, have fun.


Errr...why am I moving there now?

Not to mention that on all my time on the internet, I have yet to meet a single person who was not an American that approved of Bush. That doesnt mean they dont exist, but out of... oh... I dont know... Another several thousand posts I've read over the past several years including on boards made up primarily of non-Americans, it seems like if Bush was really that great of a guy, more than Texans, hillbillies, and evangelical christians would support what he was doing. (Over exaggeration, but not by too much)

Well, I've got to say that I do know a few Canadians do think Bush is a good leader. My uncle for one, and a couple of friends. No, I don't think they're ignorant or stupid: I also know some Canadians who are indifferent to Bush and figure Ottawa's got to learn to get along with him anyway, like myself.

Another thing I've noticed: liberals are up in arms about equality and freedom of speech, but they'll be the first ones to believe they're superior to everyone because of their leftist views (as seen in several prior posts)
And you really believe that conservatives don't think they're superior because of their rightist (is that even a word? It is now) views? Feelings of superiority happen when you're convinced you're right and everyone else is wrong: it tends to come with party affiliation (and with being young and emotional, as some people on these boards are). Of course, there's something to be said for an observation made previously that those most vocal are naturally the party that's in the minority politically speaking(If we can believe it's clearly demonstrated that they are really so much more vocal; I know plenty of loud-mouthed liberals and plenty of loudmouthed conservative. I also know people that are just plain loud). Oh, and when anyone says "you're ignorant" he means "shut up I don't have a counter-argument/I'm not levelheaded enough not to get angry at you": it doesn't just apply to liberals.


You are in the majority. Don't worry. Mostly, only Union-Jerks like Kerry, (including your teachers, who are all in the brainwashers union). The are also paid VERY-LOW. There is a reason for that. DO NOT BECOME A LIBERAL BRAIN-WASH 'TEACHER'. It is very easy to be MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL, and you do not have to suck up their lies.
I'm trying to follow this logically: The teachers' union is a brainwashing, liberal entity, therefore there are too many liberal teachers brainwashing students, therefore this individual who is not a liberal should not become a teacher, allowing a continued liberal monopoly on education while this individual makes more money. If everyone follows your advice, education will always have a liberal bias... is that what you want? What purpose does that serve?

You can pay your favorite teachers ALL THAT YOU WANT. To me, they exemplify the FAILURE OF UNIONS.
Oh, cool. Can he use your taxdollars to do it? :rolleyes:

To you and the jerk above. Move there, have fun.
Do you even TRY to make sense?

I apologize in advance for the long post

America *was* and soon will be again (in approximately 4 years) one of, if not the greatest countries on earth, Bush bashing I am all for but don’t hate the country for one idiot, most people in America are disenfranchised with our election system, especially because they don’t understand the electoral college because of corporate/republican disinformation, also people are easily tricked into believing certain issues from bombardment of one sides opinion over and over from the *liberal (that’s a joke, most tv/radio is conservative or non biased with very few exceptions and that’s in a blue state I’d hate to see tv in lets say the south) media. Which is why Europeans and other nations think Americans are generally stupid, which is false you are brainwashed as much as we are by the media into not having anything resembling your own opinion, but our media just has less respect for us and brings it on a lower intellectual level. And to respond to the person who said America is raping the earth you need to take you uber liberal a$$ and visit latin/south America and/or southeast Asia whose countries have little or no environmental laws, and allow big corporations form America AND Europe and any other 1st world nations exploit.


America- what is wrong with you, propaganda should not work in this day in age are 51% of you retarded, reelecting the worst president in our history…. Makes me want to move to Canada, but since my state is still sane ill stay and see what happens
Note to all liberals we would be living in a eco-communist stagnate p.c. nightmare if it weren’t for conservatives, also read in depth into the issues there is no easy solution to a problem if there was it would already be fixed
Note to all conservatives liberal is not a bad word it stands for political progress, and without them, if your not making more than a million a year and you vote along just republican lines I hope your daughter likes the street corner and you like working for minimum wage for the rest of your life with no retirement and living in a over oppressive big brother totalitarian consumerist Jesus-land where Catholic School is mandatory (say hello to a gay son to go along with the whore for a daughter) and if you mention the “liberal” media I will punch you right in the face! And fox news has me boycotting the simpsons
Also libertarians are stupid heads :rolleyes: voting just libertarian is just like voting democrat or republican look at the candidates issues not his party or you are lazy and don’t deserver the privilege of voting you have been given(that last part is for all parties)

And all Europeans take a whiff of your own sh*t, it smells just as bad

Japanese WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, you need to see a very good psychiatrist

China communism was an idea that didn’t work get with the program

Rest of the world not worth my time

One last thing G. Dubya and all French people I’ve met (and probably the rest of them) need to drop dead from a horrible disease, aids, syphilis, the bubonic plague, you pick and that would still be to good for g.w. but id get arrested for saying anything to harsh

And an insincere apology to all those I offended
Also this post was in no way directed at any specific person or group of individuals

The enviromental movement is all a sham, they simply repeat stuff they heard with out any real facts to support it.
we have 3 times as many trees than we did 100 years ago
*cough* donkeyballs! source please?!
Welcome! It's nice to see someone with a relatively open mind here!
One thing which happened during Vietnam is that a lot of the anti-war protesters fled to the halls of academia to escape the draft. Those "stealth" draft-dodgers are now tenured professors in a number of universities. This gives them unlimited license to foist their warpped ideas about what they think American "should" be off on young, impressionable students.

I hope this helps explain what seems to be a liberal bias on here. :)
Eutrusca, I used to think you were somewhat reasonable. I see this previous election and the "high" it has induced among those like you has clouded your judgement. I shall paraphrase the above:
"One thing which happened during Vietnam is that a lot of the {rich sons of the elite} fled to the halls of academia {and national guard} to escape the draft. Those "stealth" draft-dodgers are now tenured professors in a number of universities {and also happen to occupy some of the very highest levels of government, many of which as it happens are not neccesarily elected positions, although some of them are.: examples?: GB Junior., Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, et. al.} This gives them unlimited license to foist their warped ideas about what they think American "should" be {and lo and behold, go one step further by dictating American policy, regardless of what the smart people think, because their 'party' is in power} off on young, impressionable students {and sometimes older, even more impressionable partisans}.
So I believe that you should go about and seek the answers that you wish to know. Just don't be blinded by NationStates or any kind of propoganda that you encounter. Myself included. I guess.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Democrats -> Democraps ... HA HA HA. Gets me everytime.
Yup. nice funny. Simple is as simple does!
I also think you are pointing way to much of this Vietnam aggression in the wrong direction, as not only did it take place before most NS posters were born, but it is the liberal posters who would risk arrests and jail time to bring you home, while the powerful that you so willfully protect on here were the ones who sent you to Vietnam on miscalculations in the first place.
Here, here. I never wanted to go there with the Vietnam thing, but there it is. What EXACTLY was accomplished there? American corporations made billions of dollars? So what's really wrong with "sacrificing our boys" for the expense of big business? Apparantly nothing.
Point taken. I'll shut up. :)
Oh stop it. Defend yourself. Then shut up!

:)
Funny how liberals seem to think they're immune to propaganda while all conversatives are suspect to it.
Fair enough.
Here's a little exercise for you to try; watch something on TV, pretty much anything you normally watch, and count how many times the way an idea is portrayed makes in favor towards an idea (e.g. a sitcom with a healthy, beautiful woman that, either directly or indirectly, attributes it to her vegan diet and how it doesn't hurt nature)
What the hell are you watching? Nothing I've ever exposed myself to.
or in disfavor of another (e.g. a news report on the oh so evil CEOs of Company X, which MUST mean that capitalism is a system so flawed that it can't work. They couldn't possibly be airing that because they know that's the sort of story you liberals eat up).
Oh, you mean such as Ken Lay, who despite the fact that thousands of his employees have been rendered penniless, due to the sham his underlings perpetrated, IN HIS NAME, has never faced criminal charges, because he's a buddy of GB Junior? Or what about Worldcom or Arthur Anderson or all those other "corporate scandals" for which no one has faced their due cause? You think you can toss Martha Stewart in some country club of a "prison" and everyone will forget about the injustices that the corporate elite get away with? Stuff it in your Brooks Brothers shirt, man, cause I'm not buying that crap.
I'm certain that if you do this fairly, you'll be surprised at the results.
And I'm certain that if the "liberal media" had the cajones to truly "fairly" report just 10% of what was really going on in this country, we actually might have a well-informed republic.
And in my opinion even though liberals are against intolerance in reality they are the most intolerant people that walk on this earth(this thread is a big example) they are a living physical hypocrisy(in their ideal society most political views that dont blindly support the liberal idealism would be violently suppressed)
I largly agree with this. Liberals say they are pro-minority, poor, and women but they really are not. At least republiucans have the balls to say they only care about rich, white men. I actually respect that about them.


My school is about half Bush and half Kerry (based on where I live).
But 90% of what I hear are against conservative viewpoints. I hear NOTHING against liberals.

It just goes to show that liberals (European socialists included, who whine about us yet have never set foot in the country) talk too much.
Or maybe it just goes to show that the people at your school really don't belive in the republican party as it is now, but they've been raised to believe in it, for whatever reason ...

I am a serving member in the US military, and I am still a liberal as such I think I have a different point of view than most people here. As much as I hate to admit it Busch does have some good qualities, in fact I would have voted for him if he had ditched Rumsfeld, Chenney, and Aschcroft, that said I am very against his social policies the most important thing in America is the seperation of church and state. However all of you that are Bashing Busch at least he finally got rid of Saddam (even though I believe the timing was wrong) Saddam was still an evil dictator, and if the UN would get off its lazy behind and do what it is supposed to America would not have to act unilatterally, but as proven in the oil for food program the European governments (especially France) cannot be trusted to do what they are supposed to. Oh and I do not consider it a vote on morals, it was the fact that the majority of Americans do not want things to change they want society to stay the same they fear what they do not understand, however a lot of liberals are actually part of the problem not the solution. Librals spout the same things over and over, like social security, which I agree with but the way it is currently set up is flawed, and WHY THE HELL are most librals against nuclear power in the long run it is safer, more efficient, and enviornmentally friendly than most conventional sorts of power it would also go a long way towards solving the problem of our dependency on oil. Oh the one thing I originally agreed with Busch on was his opposition to the creation of a DCI and rushing the recomendations to the 9-11 commision. That said the way the intel community and Tennet were made whipping boys for 9-11 disgusts me.

Sorry if I offended anyone but these are my views takem or leavem your choice.
First off, thank you for your service in the military.
Second, it's Bush, with no "s", that's the German spelling. He's trying not to draw any kind of attention to his family and the Nazi party. After all, there's this religious mission to get all the Jews back to Israel. (Biblical prophesy and all ..)
Thirdly, I only take issue with your spiel about nuclear power. Solar and wind power are far more environmentally friendly than nuclear power. The only problem is you can't make any money off the harnessing of the power of the sun and wind, only the technology to generate it, (the hardware, I mean). If there's no money to be made, what good is it, right? That's why when Bush first became president he all but annihilated the budget for "renewable energy" in January of 2001. It's not fun if you and your buddies don't get rich off it, get it?

Conservative.

Think about it: They're afraid of change. They're very religious. They have powerful nationalistic tendencies. They favor powerful militaries.

They're right-wingers.
Truely! Religious fundamentalism is very scary. Whether is stems from Islam or Christianity!
I'm trying to follow this logically: The teachers' union is a brainwashing, liberal entity, therefore there are too many liberal teachers brainwashing students, therefore this individual who is not a liberal should not become a teacher, allowing a continued liberal monopoly on education while this individual makes more money. If everyone follows your advice, education will always have a liberal bias... is that what you want? What purpose does that serve?
Not to mention that the arguement is flawed because at the primary and secondary education level, schools are controlled not by the teachers, or their union, but by the local school boards and the state legislature.

Whew! I can't believe I made it through this thread. I'll be more amazed if someone actually reads through my post!

Lagonia, we are not as liberal as you think . . . take me for example; I'm not liberal.


I'm libertarian

Well, all I have to say is that 60,000,000 of my fellow Americans voted to give Bush a second term.

Since when is 60 million a majority of America? Fuzzy math there, bubba.

I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.

You are dumb enough to accept the propaganda of "everybody loves us, except for the french" made by Bush to justify the opposition of the rest of the world to his policy.

btw, I'm french, and left the UN because it is terrible. I do have rather "liberals" ideas; however, not in the american definition of the term, but in the european one, which means I'm rather pro-capitalist (even if I think it should be limited in some areas).

This is going to turn into a flame-fest, but hopefully, some intellegent ideas will be passed before it gets far too ugly.

Nope, that hope was dashed when you said:

I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French

There are only a tiny majority with any real hatred for America or Israel, and they hardly represent the boards makeup.

You are dumb enough to accept the propaganda of "everybody loves us, except for the french" made by Bush to justify the opposition of the rest of the world to his policy.

btw, I'm french, and left the UN because it is terrible. I do have rather "liberals" ideas; however, not in the american definition of the term, but in the european one, which means I'm rather pro-capitalist (even if I think it should be limited in some areas).

I know you were not commenting on my post but my dislike of french people is from personal experiance and not rep. propoganda, i try not to keep sterotypes and when i say french i mean people who speak french, most of the people who have pissed me off have been french canadian, but there have been a few from france.

EDIT
after reading this post, i realize it is totaly devoid of any coherent thoughts but i figured id leave it up anyway

I know you were not commenting on my post but my dislike of french people is from personal experiance and not rep. propoganda, i try not to keep sterotypes and when i say french i mean people who speak french, most of the people who have pissed me off have been french canadian, but there have been a few from france.

EDIT
after reading this post, i realize it is totaly devoid of any coherent thoughts but i figured id leave it up anyway


that's OK... but don't make generalisations like that. Many french people are anti-american, many americans are anti-french... this leads nowhere. By disliking all french because you can't stand some, you are just making them feel more aggressed, they'll be more aggressive and it goes on like that until we are to the israel / palestine point... see what I mean?

Whats the point if a political covversation? we all know what will happen

democrat"Bush sucks!"

republican"Bush rules!"

european person"Bush sucks and is ruining the world and you americans do too because you chose him!"

republican"**** you you [highly censored]
(fistfightbegins)

Rest of the world not worth my time
Most non americans would see this as the biggest problem with american attitudes to the world. Of course its worth the time. It is part of the same world and all nations are affected by and affect each other. If they aren't worth it why is the US government fighting wars to gain influence over them?

you know what I love?

the "liberals are so blah blah blah superior and insulting"

as if you weren't insulting by just saying that.

hypocrisy is fun.

teachers may have a liberal bias 'cause I don't know, they're underpaid? not many people realize how important teachers are to our society.

Clearly, you don't recognize Bush-hatred as liberal.

Bush-hatred is not necessarily liberal.

Most non americans would see this as the biggest problem with american attitudes to the world. Of course its worth the time. It is part of the same world and all nations are affected by and affect each other. If they aren't worth it why is the US government fighting wars to gain influence over them?

yes, america does need to back the fuck off.

I ve lived in europe for the last 11 years, and recently moved back to Canada, I knew it would be a shock again to be exposed to the media machine in North america, The Corporate influence and complete scaremongering that goes on in this part of the world is insane, It just seems to me that American is running scared. They bark on about freedom and democracy, but the only thing that is driving the country is Money, scary news sells more Pepsi. I think america is becoming what they fought against in war of indepence. There are similarities between USA and the old british empire, the USA just tries to be PC now adays, were as the Old empire just did what they want. America still does that. england went to India for cheaper Tea, but they never pretended they were not expoiting the countries. they did however bring industry to the world. The USA went to Iraq for cheaper oil, under false pretences. Oil tycoon president George the Second, invades a oil rich country. Im just glad the Bushes wernt in the Hockey buiz or they might have invaded Canada.

America is the worst country for the past...10, maybe, years.

Although directing profanity at it won't help. Can't believe Bush was re-elected. Bah.

(I'm American)

Im just glad the Bushes wernt in the Hockey buiz or they might have invaded Canada.

:D

See? I was proven right since my last post. but while we're on the subject...

Bush isn't a good president, hes not one of the worst ever but he is not good.
hes the president though and deserves SOME respect, we cant change that he's president until hed be out anyway so whats the point in criticizing him. If your not in america you shouldnt care anyway because you cant vote here and none of his laws or constitutional amendments will affect you.

Im not a republican but theres no point in criticizing bush it wont chang his mind and it just gets a bunch of people pissed off. :headbang:

If your not in america you shouldnt care anyway because you cant vote here and none of his laws or constitutional amendments will affect you.
Of course we should, his foreign policy is having a huge effect on other countries. Just as during the British Empire the choice of the British Government was of importance to everyone else and during the cold war the US was always very interested in who was selected as leader of the USSR. No nation lives in a bubble and the leadership choices of those who live in the most powerful countries greatly affects many lives throughout the world. It doesn't mean you have to listen to us but it does mean we will have an opinion.

Want a conservative forum? Go here:
http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic?a=cfrm&s=78919038&f=81519858

WARNING: Liberals should probably not view this link unless they want higher blood pressure and proof that stupidity can be contagious...

Bush isn't a good president, hes not one of the worst ever but he is not good.
hes the president though and deserves SOME respect, we cant change that he's president until hed be out anyway so whats the point in criticizing him. If your not in america you shouldnt care anyway because you cant vote here and none of his laws or constitutional amendments will affect you.



What are you talking about, we shouldn't care just because we don't live there?

Laws passed in the US affect people around the world. If Bush didn't affect our lives at all we wouldn't give a damn, trouble is US laws and foreign policy etc. do quite clearly make a difference to peoples lives. If you can't understand that yet, you need to get out of your isolationist bubble a bit more.

Why do all the UN resolutions that are coming up lately deal with poop?

The "Rights of Minorities and Women" (1) was terribly worded and if the game actually enforced the wording, we would have no game any longer.

The rights of gays to marry thing (2) is yet another wrong-headed idea from the "left". Never before in history have we had such a thing, yet suddenly we are supposed to believe that we have been oppressing people who are homosexual by not allowing them to marry.
"Never before in history" is not a valid argument against anything - unless you oppose all change to anything on this basis.



1. Clearly all people should have ''rights''.... what those rights are exactly is being clarified on a daily basis. But the rights of mankind cannot logically be guaranteed by mankind alone. How can a broken system fix itself? The American Declaration of Independence recognized that rights are ultimately granted by God, and that standard is universal and unbreakable.?
I didn't realise that the opinions of the world were governed by the American Declaration of Independence - how foolish of me!!

2. Shall we prevent gays from marrying? Hard one to answer. I would say religiously, we should oppose it. Socially, it seems to be generally disliked. Naturally, it is opposed to the standards of nature (homosexuality). Philosophically, homosexuals are humans, as are heterosexuals. Governmentally, I believe governments have a duty to do what is best for all citizens in a holistic approach. So I would probably err on the side of the status quo in this. Rome wasn't built in a day, after all.?
Religiously only applies if one is religious. Socially depends entirely upon who you talk to, and in any case is the ad populem fallacy. Nature does precisely what it needs to to perpetuate itself, and nothing more - hence no homosexuality; but then, nature produces no works of art, no philosophy. Most of modern society is "unnatural".

And indeed, Rome wasn't built in a day, but that is entirely besides the point.

Is it best to develop technology and knowledge without humanity being able to deal with it morally or ethically? What about the Atomic Bomb?
Yes, what about the atom bomb? And do you think that if we waited for everyone to "be ready" for something before it was developed that anything would ever happen? I should think that this discussion board should be proof enough that humanity is unlikely to ever agree on anything...

Religiously only applies if one is religious. Socially depends entirely upon who you talk to, and in any case is the ad populem fallacy. Nature does precisely what it needs to to perpetuate itself, and nothing more - hence no homosexuality; but then, nature produces no works of art, no philosophy. Most of modern society is "unnatural".
Homosexual behaviour has been observed in a variety of species. It's not common but it does happen.

Socially, it seems to be generally disliked.

what?! because it being generally disliked is another reason (plus the other ones) to go against it? yeah, way back when people weren't fond of, say, african-americans having all their rights - that was "generally disliked". in the south even further back not having slaving was "generally disliked". that's not valid at all.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in a variety of species. It's not common but it does happen.
Well, yes, but it didn't seem worth bringing it up. I was disagreeing with enough of what he said already... ;)

...and besides, it is very uncommon, or so I thought. Out of interest, how many examples are there? I know male lab rats, if kept in single-sex groups, may develop homosexual behaviour.

1. Clearly all people should have ''rights''.... what those rights are exactly is being clarified on a daily basis. But the rights of mankind cannot logically be guaranteed by mankind alone. How can a broken system fix itself? The American Declaration of Independence recognized that rights are ultimately granted by God, and that standard is universal and unbreakable.


The Declaration of Independence gives ultimate freedom of choice. I mean ... the document says "THEIR Creator" and not "THE Creator". Sounds like people even have the right to choose their god. Neat, eh?


2. Shall we prevent gays from marrying? Hard one to answer. I would say religiously, we should oppose it.

Well that would depend on your religion, wouldn't it? Even Islam isn't necessarily against gay marriage.

3. And the embryonic stem cell research -- we collectively haven't yet decided ''when life begins'' although an embryo is clearly a living thing (non-living things don't make life).

Embryos make life?

Anyway, this is not something we should get to decide. The Bible says a person isn't a person until they are more than half way out of the mother. That means the Bible says life begins at birth. Some people say life begins at 40. Some people say life begins at conception. Some people even say male masturbation is the abortion of millions of potential humans.

What does that all mean? It means it's up to the individual to decide. Hence ... CHOICE! The Founding Fathers were pro-choice ... what's the rest of ya'll's problem?

Well, yes, but it didn't seem worth bringing it up. I was disagreeing with enough of what he said already... ;)

...and besides, it is very uncommon, or so I thought. Out of interest, how many examples are there? I know male lab rats, if kept in single-sex groups, may develop homosexual behaviour.

National Geographic link (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html)
According to this some "birds, beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom."
I knew about the sheep but beetles????

I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.

Ignorant ramblings like that are part of the reason. It's almost funny that you live in a country and have no clue about how it behaves or is perceived by the vast majority of the world...almost funny.

National Geographic link (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html)
According to this some "birds, beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom."
I knew about the sheep but beetles????
Thank you. And beetles, indeed!

This may be the single most liberal board I've even been a part of. The United Nations here is essentially a power-house of liberal ideas, and the board here is full of Bush bashers and a great deal of anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred..
Explain the relation between "anti Israeli and anti-US hatred" and "liberal ideas ? This would mean that every Israeli and every "American" is a extreme right winger and thus the European centrists would be extreme leftists in that case.? :rolleyes:



I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French..

This is trolling, you're showing racisme towards the French and Iranians. Just like there is something wrong with them or they would be anti US and whatever?

Great extremist post and a very riducule position. Guess you're a CRWN for spreading such nonsense.

1. Clearly all people should have ''rights''.... what those rights are exactly is being clarified on a daily basis. But the rights of mankind cannot logically be guaranteed by mankind alone. How can a broken system fix itself? The American Declaration of Independence recognized that rights are ultimately granted by God, and that standard is universal and unbreakable.

Dude, you're forgetting something. The American Declaration of Independence has no legal standing whatsoever. It's not the law of the land, it's not the basis of our government - it was used to declare independence, and that's that. The Constitution is the only binding document, not the Dec. of Independence. That's just a historical document. It does not now nor did it ever bind the American government to do anything.

The United States are the most evil nation hell ever vomited forth.
This distinction actually goes to Germany. Thirty Years War, Seven Years War (Frederick), Franco-Prussian War (1870-71), World War I, World War II...How many tens of millions Germany has killed...

Deutschland Uber Alles!

This distinction actually goes to Germany. Thirty Years War, Seven Years War (Frederick), Franco-Prussian War (1870-71), World War I, World War II...How many tens of millions Germany has killed...

Deutschland Uber Alles!
I think its a bit harsh to blame all those wars on Germany alone.
Any nation that has an aggressive or imperialist foreign policy tends to get into shaky moral ground.

What are you talking about, we shouldn't care just because we don't live there?

Laws passed in the US affect people around the world. If Bush didn't affect our lives at all we wouldn't give a damn, trouble is US laws and foreign policy etc. do quite clearly make a difference to peoples lives. If you can't understand that yet, you need to get out of your isolationist bubble a bit more.

Bush is also ruining the american economy wicth if its not already (havent been any wher for a while) will eventually america consumes so many goods and services that the only region the even comes close is all of europe. if he contiunues his unnecessary tax cuts for the rich and other catastrophies he calls economic reform he will send us in to more than just a recession.

also dont even try to blame the bad economy on sept 11 b/c the economy was tanking well before then, unemployement was rising, and greenspan had just lowered the interest rates to try in boost it back up, 9/11 just excellerated our path towards recession

also Germany has been in far fewer wars than most nations, probably less then switzerland (and yes the swiss roughed a few nations up in some small wars) its just they were on the losing side for two of the biggest wars of history, and if anything they were on the higher moral side in WWI, of course theres always hitler and the nazis but hitler i think was austrian so its not necessarily the german peoples fault for the nazis, they just did what most of rest of the world mainly europe was thinking at the time

EDIT if this came off in any way in support of the nazis it was not intentional, i think the nazis were probably the most evil group of people the world has ever seen

and the assyrians were probably the most evil nation

This may be the single most liberal board I've even been a part of. The United Nations here is essentially a power-house of liberal ideas, and the board here is full of Bush bashers and a great deal of anti-American and anti-Israeli hatred.

I'm wondering why this is. Are there alot of Europeans here? Alot of Iranians? I can't figure it out, except to assume you're all French.

I'm just wondering what you all think of this and why it may be. This is going to turn into a flame-fest, but hopefully, some intellegent ideas will be passed before it gets far too ugly.

I am about the biggest W fan out there, but I believe the reason that this is the most liberal board is that people with like ideas tend to stick together.

also Germany has been in far fewer wars than most nations, probably less then switzerland (and yes the swiss roughed a few nations up in some small wars) its just they were on the losing side for two of the biggest wars of history, and if anything they were on the higher moral side in WWI, of course theres always hitler and the nazis but hitler i think was austrian so its not necessarily the german peoples fault for the nazis, they just did what most of rest of the world mainly europe was thinking at the time

EDIT if this came off in any way in support of the nazis it was not intentional, i think the nazis were probably the most evil group of people the world has ever seen

and the assyrians were probably the most evil nation

Well, Germany lost the first world war by pure chance, the Entante forces were about to colapse as well. In fact the pull out of Russia from the war in 1917 gave the Entante forces many a week or two advangate on the Allied forces because Germany was suddenly dealing with a vacume (No treaty was signed I understand) on their eastern side. It was quickly fixed, but still the Entante forces used it to gain another week of fighting life. If Wilhelm II had waited another week to abdicate, the Allies may have won.
NOTE: Entante = England, France, Russia,
Alliance = Germany, Ottoman, Austria-Hungary

Hitler was Austrian.
And after the war, Europe fell into Economic turmoil, and with the onset of the Great Depression in 1929, the people in Germany,as with any other state, followed whoever could bring them out of the depression. It must be noted that North America didn;t come out of the Depression until 1940, while Germany came out in 1933, imediatly following the election of the Nazi party in Germany.

Now what I want to know is, what makes the Assyrian Empire the most evil?
I'm sure that Imperial France in the mid 1800's can be classified as more evil, likewise the Holy Roman Empire slaughtered millions of innocent people in the name of their religion. Surely either of those, or many others are more worthy of most "evil" nation?

By the way, the reason this board is so liberal, is because most of these people are from Europe, Canada, or the US, all are liberal countries. That doesn't mean anything of your "Conservative" or "Liberal" political parties, since they all base their ideals on liberalism, rather then socialism, or facism.

Bush is also ruining the american economy wicth if its not already (havent been any wher for a while) will eventually america consumes so many goods and services that the only region the even comes close is all of europe. if he contiunues his unnecessary tax cuts for the rich and other catastrophies he calls economic reform he will send us in to more than just a recession.

also dont even try to blame the bad economy on sept 11 b/c the economy was tanking well before then, unemployement was rising, and greenspan had just lowered the interest rates to try in boost it back up, 9/11 just excellerated our path towards recession
You are right about one thing the economy was tanking long before 9-11...Thanks to the Clinton Administarion policies of tax the achievers and reward the lazy our econoy was slumping long before 2001...And there for can not be blamed on Pres. Bush....

Irrational number? That has nothing to do with being low...


its been a while, but arent irrational numbers the square roots of negative numbers. If so, then yeah, it would be low...as much aas it can judged given that we are talking about IRRATIONAL numbers

its been a while, but arent irrational numbers the square roots of negative numbers. If so, then yeah, it would be low...as much aas it can judged given that we are talking about IRRATIONAL numbers

First - An irrational number is any number which cannot be put in the form m/n. So 2/1, 5/3 or 686748/8566351 are rational. Generally any non terminating decimal is an irrational number. Pi for instance, or root 2. It could theoretically be any of the multi multi multi quadrillions of non terminating decimals below infinity.

Second- It is hard to believe looking across the pond that actually reelected him. I know our PM is a friend of his - but he is almost as much a terrorist as the people he says he fights, from a certain point of view. Whipping you up into a state of panic.... I do not fear a terrorist attack, because if you fear it the terrorist have already won. By panicking you all, he is aiding and abetting Al-Qa'ida's cause. this is an extreme sort of view, true, but there is quite a bit of truth in it.

First - An irrational number is any number which cannot be put in the form m/n. So 2/1, 5/3 or 686748/8566351 are rational. Generally any non terminating decimal is an irrational number. Pi for instance, or root 2. It could theoretically be any of the multi multi multi quadrillions of non terminating decimals below infinity.

Second- It is hard to believe looking across the pond that actually reelected him. I know our PM is a friend of his - but he is almost as much a terrorist as the people he says he fights, from a certain point of view. Whipping you up into a state of panic.... I do not fear a terrorist attack, because if you fear it the terrorist have already won. By panicking you all, he is aiding and abetting Al-Qa'ida's cause. this is an extreme sort of view, true, but there is quite a bit of truth in it.

thanx for the clarification on irrational numbers.

I dont understand what the second part of your post has to do with mine though.

And as to whipping up fear, he is no differant than almost every other president or politician we have ever had. Its terrorists, or commies, or the japanese WW2 and the 80's or criminals or space aliens.

No one ever won political office by saying things were just fine. I remember doing "duck and cover" drills 20+ years ago. As if my wooden desk is gonna protect me from a nuclear attack, was that a scare mongering terrorist activity? There is nothing new about terror alerts, the people who get panicked by this also fear alien abductions and their pets revolting. Blame the media more than the administration, fear sells.

Why do all the UN resolutions that are coming up lately deal with poop?

The "Rights of Minorities and Women" (1) was terribly worded and if the game actually enforced the wording, we would have no game any longer.

The rights of gays to marry thing (2) is yet another wrong-headed idea from the "left". Never before in history have we had such a thing, yet suddenly we are supposed to believe that we have been oppressing people who are homosexual by not allowing them to marry.

Now it is Embryonic Stem Cell research (3). Let's trot out the entire liberal agenda shall we? And how typical -- the vote is 4,458 to 937 already.

Why not some real and serious resolutions like a resolution to drive the UN to fight human tragedy like what occured in Rwanda or the Sudan?

1. Clearly all people should have ''rights''.... what those rights are exactly is being clarified on a daily basis. But the rights of mankind cannot logically be guaranteed by mankind alone. How can a broken system fix itself? The American Declaration of Independence recognized that rights are ultimately granted by God, and that standard is universal and unbreakable.

2. Shall we prevent gays from marrying? Hard one to answer. I would say religiously, we should oppose it. Socially, it seems to be generally disliked. Naturally, it is opposed to the standards of nature (homosexuality). Philosophically, homosexuals are humans, as are heterosexuals. Governmentally, I believe governments have a duty to do what is best for all citizens in a holistic approach. So I would probably err on the side of the status quo in this. Rome wasn't built in a day, after all.

3. And the embryonic stem cell research -- we collectively haven't yet decided ''when life begins'' although an embryo is clearly a living thing (non-living things don't make life). So are we killing a human, or saving a human via stem cell technology? What about adult stem cells, which show much of the same promise, without the ethical questions? Is it best to develop technology and knowledge without humanity being able to deal with it morally or ethically? What about the Atomic Bomb?
If you are that opposed to the UN then why join it? I have made this point over and over again, a conservative in the NS UN is like a Jew in the Nazi Party.

What do you call Muslim countries that want to Nuke the US?
Treehugging hippies.

What do you call Muslim countries that want to Nuke the US?

The UN elite.

The UN elite.

:headbang: "there are 2 infinite things: the universe and human stupidity. I'm not sure about the first one." (Einstein)

For your information, Saddam had no WMDs. So no Nukes. Iran and Pakistan aren't exactly the UN elite, they are being criticized by almost all the rest of the world. The invasion of Afghanistan has been accepted by the UN.